Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page / 47
Link Posted: 6/28/2024 3:19:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 6/28/2024 3:20:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Where are the USN FONOPs? Has Sleepy Joe abandoned the South China Sea?
Link Posted: 6/28/2024 11:22:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Where are the USN FONOPs? Has Sleepy Joe abandoned the South China Sea?
View Quote
Great question!

I looked for at least one Freedom of Navigation operation in the area for this calendar year, and I found nothing.

We can make excuses that there is not enough manning for ships, or perhaps more ships are joining task forces for the Mediterranean to Red Sea area for support of the Ukraine, Israel, maritime operations against the Houthi rebels, but those are just excuses.

No idea! But, great question!!!!
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 12:35:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2tired2run] [#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:
Great question!

I looked for at least one Freedom of Navigation operation in the area for this calendar year, and I found nothing.

We can make excuses that there is not enough manning for ships, or perhaps more ships are joining task forces for the Mediterranean to Red Sea area for support of the Ukraine, Israel, maritime operations against the Houthi rebels, but those are just excuses.

No idea! But, great question!!!!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Where are the USN FONOPs? Has Sleepy Joe abandoned the South China Sea?
Great question!

I looked for at least one Freedom of Navigation operation in the area for this calendar year, and I found nothing.

We can make excuses that there is not enough manning for ships, or perhaps more ships are joining task forces for the Mediterranean to Red Sea area for support of the Ukraine, Israel, maritime operations against the Houthi rebels, but those are just excuses.

No idea! But, great question!!!!


I dont think there are enough ships and certainly not enough of the right ones.....not an excuse.  

I also believe that some leadership is concerned that if we have a bunch of ships close to main land china ....they may say fuck it we're going in and decide to take out a a bunch of ships with land based weapons.  Basically the calculus may have changed from they wont fuck with us to....the reward is not worth the risk.  


ETA: but i could be completely wrong too our leadership comes off as so inept at the top i have no idea where there is any competency left
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 12:52:37 AM EDT
[#5]
FONOPs are a great reminder to everyone that China is flagrantly violating UNCLOS, which is settled international law duly ratified by China, and a great way to assert on behalf of the weaker nations that China's expansive claims in SCS are BS, and expansionist, imperialist power grab that violates all international norms, laws, and treaties. With what PRC has been pulling with Philippines, I would think some FONOPs in PI's EEZ should be required. It only takes a destroyer.

Apologies for excessive acronyms, it's late and I'm tired.
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 12:57:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: zoinks] [#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:
This story is important. Great job, Carmel!!!!

it's so fucking important, I'll just post the whole damn thing and reap the whirlwind over it:
Former Navy captain tells Congress of decadeslong U.S. intelligence failures on China
We'll go over this one tomorrow for Propaganda Friday.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:
This story is important. Great job, Carmel!!!!

it's so fucking important, I'll just post the whole damn thing and reap the whirlwind over it:
Former Navy captain tells Congress of decadeslong U.S. intelligence failures on China
We'll go over this one tomorrow for Propaganda Friday.
I'm quoting myself!! I'm that important!!!!

Even more importantly, Capt. Fanell (Ret'd) raises a very important issue. He could have gone further in his criticisms, IMHO, but just stuck with blaming the intelligence agencies, instead of the political leadership that determines direction and policy where the blame actually belongs.

Here's Capt. Fanell's thesis statement:
U.S. intelligence agencies are guilty of multiple failures to address threats posed by China over the past 40 years, resulting in current existential dangers to American security, a former Navy intelligence director told Congress on Wednesday.
He then went on to say that the CCP "fooled" American political leaders:
Retired Navy Capt. James Fanell testified that the ruling Chinese Communist Party employed strategic deception and political warfare to fool both intelligence officials and executive branch policymakers into falsely assuming China posed no threat.
Is there some truth to the above? Yes.

Is that the whole truth? No.

I have a quote by xnarc on one of my computers (obviously not the one I'm using tonight...fuck!) that described former Officer Derek Chauvin's actions and responsibilities when George Floyd died. xnarc's point was that the elected political leadership endorsed the hiring policies, training policies and doctrine of the Police Dept. In effect, Off Chauvin was only following orders (and yes the PD leadership got caught denying that to be the case, but it didn't matter as far as the trial went.)

It's the same exact thing here. Political leadership is what creates and sets the monsters against us, and we have one political party in this Country that wants to destroy us to realize a better future! The collective "we" of those that are either actively oppose them. or at least disagree with them, are the enemy. Obviously, Capt. Fanell can't say that in front of Congress even if he thought this. (I have no way of knowing what the Captain thinks or believes with his "inside" voice.)

Therefore, the one part of his reported testimony that I take exception to is this:
[color=#ff0000]"Over the course of decades, [China] effectively misled our executive branch to ignore the PRC as a rising existential threat," [/color]said Capt. Fanell, former director of intelligence and information operations for the Pacific Fleet. "In particular, the Department of Defense and the intelligence community were deceived by the CCP's skillful use of elite capture, deception, disinformation and propaganda programs."

"...misled our executive branch...?"
I say, "nope!"

Our "Executive Branch" was misled because it wanted/needed to be misled, and yes, that's mostly by one party (Dems) with elements of the other party (Rinos) helping.

Let's divide the US-Sino relationship quickly in this manner:

  •    John Hay "Open Door Note/Open Door Policy" meant to maintain the territorial integrity of China
  •    Working with the followers of Sun Yat-sen or "two sides of the same coin" to help the fight with the Imperial Japanese
  •    Asking the Soviet Union to invade Northern China to help fight the Imperial Japanese
  •    The '71-'72 Raprroachement with the PRC to split the PRC from the USSR
  •    The "Hot 'n' Heavy '90s

The one thing that dominates during this entire time period, and actually since 1860, is that with the exception of FDR, Republicans get elected to the Presidency much more than Democrats.

That gnaws on them greatly.

While there were a number of card carrying commie rat bastards forwarding themselves as Democrats, and even more Fellow-Travelers doing like-wise, the Soviets were never stupid enough to trust them. Ask any Soviet that's left. They'll tell you. The Democrats would not receive help from them as the Soviets perceived them as traitorous and therefore treacherous.

However, the Chinese saw this same landscape in a different way, one in which they could manipulate and benefit from even if there were set backs from time to time.

You can learn a lot about a culture by playing its games. The purpose of any game is to win (unless, of course, you want to teach others how not to take risks or attempt at anything, and for their failure to achieve, you reward them with a participation trophy), using rules, not arbitrariness. Rules are very important. Rules enforce cooperation even between opponents, and cooperation achieves Victory. Capriciousness does not.

Take Mahjong, for example. Think slow, you lose. Play safe, you lose. Violate a rule, the other players will cooperatively gang up on you. Lots of rules up until the time you yell out, "Pong." Then the only rule left is to win, or face the wrath of the other three players.

The Chinese don't have a problem with helping Democrats win political power in the US, and no, they do not trust the Democrats. They don't trust any foreign devil. The game they play doesn't require it. All they need is cooperation to win.

US "political leaders" were not blind as to what was going on. They turned a blind eye to it as they were receiving benefits from it, and that's a lot different than being "fooled."

As these same "political leaders" were in charge, they set the policies, directions and doctrines of the agencies that serve them. Yes, Dorothy, not the FBI, CIA or even the NOAA serve the American people. They serve their political masters.

"...the Department of Defense and the intelligence community were deceived...?"
I say, "nope again!"

One of the things I learned in the Air Force is that the "Truth" is what the guy writing the report says it is. That's kind of the end of the story on that one.

To put it another way, if a people with a 4700 year history of conquest and being conquested (Is that a word?), one day says "Oh, we're not a hegemon and don't really want to be one," do you believe them? No, not really.

There are a couple of points the good Captain makes that I can whole-heartily believe. To wit:
Capt. Fanell said that he was pushed out of the Navy 10 years ago after giving a speech approved by his superiors that warned of China's growing military capabilities in preparation for what he called a "short, sharp war" with the United States. He claimed that a civilian Pentagon official told him after the remarks that he was prohibited from making any similar speeches.

"I had contradicted the unwritten policy of 'not provoking' the PRC. Within a few months I was fired," he said.
This is what our Officer Corp purge looked like. As another example, I have a good friend that was passed over twice for O-6 for "defying" the Obama Admin on a relatively small matter.

Then there's this gem of a statement which again, I'm in 110% agreement:
"The U.S. Navy flag officer corps devolved from being an institution that had the moral integrity to 'revolt' over principled disagreements about our national security strategy and budget allocation in 1949, to a U.S. Navy today that is arguably outgunned by the PLA Navy without one admiral publicly speaking out in dissent or resigning," he said.
We used to have some tough old bastards running things who knew when to make a stand and pay the price for it.


ETA: I tried to fix the red color boo-boo. No such luck.
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 1:01:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
FONOPs are a great reminder to everyone that China is flagrantly violating UNCLOS, which is settled international law duly ratified by China, and a great way to assert on behalf of the weaker nations that China's expansive claims in SCS are BS, and expansionist, imperialist power grab that violates all international norms, laws, and treaties. With what PRC has been pulling with Philippines, I would think some FONOPs in PI's EEZ should be required. It only takes a destroyer.

Apologies for excessive acronyms, it's late and I'm tired.
View Quote
Yeah!
I was going to mention the acronym thing! LOL  


Link Posted: 6/29/2024 10:57:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 11:41:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202406/1314823.shtml
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202406/1314823.shtml
Wow! So the new guy (new Prime Minister) who ran on slowing things down with the PRC is...
to visit China, to elevate ties to new heights

The PRC already has made the Solomon Islands "strategic partners" which I thought was the highest. What's left? Mutual Masturbation partner? Is this the new "highest" level of diplomacy?

The China trip by the new leader of the island nation can enhance bilateral relations and promote mutual understanding among Chinese and Solomon Islands' leaders, said Chen Hong, director of the Australian Studies Center of East China Normal University.
Since establishing diplomatic relations, both sides have achieved significant results in mutually beneficial cooperation in various areas such as economy and trade, society, politics, and law enforcement, Chen told the Global Times on Tuesday.
Chinese analysts refuted the US-led West's attempts to distort some of the mutually beneficial and equal bilateral cooperation between China and the Solomon Islands as being of a military nature.
Well...there it is.

Link Posted: 6/29/2024 12:00:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Taiwan News is behind in score cards!!!!!

Taiwan tracks 18 Chinese military aircraft, 6 naval ships around nation
TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   The Ministry of National Defense (MND) tracked 18 Chinese military aircraft and six naval vessels around Taiwan between 6 a.m. on Thursday (June 27) and 6 a.m. on Friday (June 28).

Of the 18 People's Liberation Army (PLA) aircraft, 17 crossed the Taiwan Strait median line in the northern and southwest portions of the country's air defense identification zone (ADIZ), according to the MND.
View Quote
Attachment Attached File

So far this month, Taiwan has tracked Chinese military aircraft 389 times and naval/coast guard vessels 210 times.
View Quote
Again, the Taiwan News is behind in publishing these updates, but it looks like the PLA has gone over 400 aircraft for this month.
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 12:01:58 PM EDT
[#11]
In our continuing coverage of "where the hell are the promised US weapons?", here's another story:
Taiwan plans to buy new barrels to extend life of M60A3 tanks

TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   The Army plans to spend NT$836 million (US$25.7 million) on new barrels for its aging M60A3 tanks to extend their life, reports said Saturday (June 29).

The planned upgrade came as the Army is awaiting the delivery of the first 38 out of 108 M1 tanks it ordered from the U.S. The first delivery was expected during the fourth quarter of 2024, the Liberty Times reported.

The military already procured 460 new engines for all of its M60A3 tanks from overseas, but the barrels will be made in Taiwan by the 202nd Arsenal of the Armaments Bureau. The tanks started service with the Army about 30 years ago, but only about a third of them needed new barrels.

The contract for the parts went into effect in mid-June, with delivery to be completed by the end of 2028. The tanks would also need upgrades to improve accuracy, with Chinese amphibious landing vehicles as their main targets in a possible conflict with China.
View Quote

Link Posted: 6/29/2024 12:09:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
You guys may not remember earlier this year when Carmel posted the video link to a Congressional Hearing on the South China Seas.
This guy...
Attachment Attached File

is the guy that kept answering questions with the phrase, "we have a strategy."

The US is "deeply concerned" about China's new legal guidelines that target advocates of Taiwanese independence, a senior US Department of State official said on Thursday.

"We're deeply concerned and, if passed as prologue, we're concerned that China could apply these regulations to others overseas as well," Assistant US Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Daniel Kritenbrink told members of the US House of Representative's Foreign Affairs Committee.

Kritenbrink was referring to guidelines introduced by Beijing on Friday last week that allow courts in China to try "Taiwan independence separatists" in absentia.
Originally, I couldn't find any information on trying cases in absentia. I assumed the PRC would be pretty much kidnapping people. But, if the professionals say "absentia" is there, good enough for me.

Link Posted: 6/29/2024 1:10:42 PM EDT
[#13]
So the we kicked off RIMPAC yesterday.  Instead of doing this massive exercise around Hawaii we need to do it around the Philippines. That will send a clear message to China.  When the Philippines try to resupply the second thomas shoal we should be sending half a dozen warships and a dozen aircraft.  The Philippines are an actual treaty ally and we are definitely not acting like they are.  

Our whole foreign policy is a dumpster fire.
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 1:38:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 6/29/2024 1:46:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: buck19delta] [#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
So the we kicked off RIMPAC yesterday.  Instead of doing this massive exercise around Hawaii we need to do it around the Philippines. That will send a clear message to China.  When the Philippines try to resupply the second thomas shoal we should be sending half a dozen warships and a dozen aircraft.  The Philippines are an actual treaty ally and we are definitely not acting like they are.  

Our whole foreign policy is a dumpster fire.
View Quote



We are rewarding countries with military help based off how much money the DC elites can earn off it. Ukraine has huge return on investment, especially considering the pre-war corruption and kickbacks Biden had… so.. defense of Ukraine is CRITICAL!

When the Philippines start making dc elites rich then they will get the red carpet military treatment. But that only works if they can pay more than the Chinese are bribing certain dc elites with to help control us policy towards chinas aggression. If we had some less corrupt politicians in office our behavior and response to chinas behavior would be far, far, different. Probably more like how we treated Russia in the Cold War.

But… the Chinese is funneling billions into dc bank accounts, Chinese spy drivers driving dc limousines, etc. so….
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 11:08:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buck19delta:



We are rewarding countries with military help based off how much money the DC elites can earn off it. Ukraine has huge return on investment, especially considering the pre-war corruption and kickbacks Biden had  so.. defense of Ukraine is CRITICAL!

When the Philippines start making dc elites rich then they will get the red carpet military treatment. But that only works if they can pay more than the Chinese are bribing certain dc elites with to help control us policy towards chinas aggression. If we had some less corrupt politicians in office our behavior and response to chinas behavior would be far, far, different. Probably more like how we treated Russia in the Cold War.

But  the Chinese is funneling billions into dc bank accounts, Chinese spy drivers driving dc limousines, etc. so .
View Quote
You're correct. Not much to say beyond that really.

The hatred for Trump at the high-level of political leadership has always been because he wasn't on payroll like the rest of them were. That made Trump dangerouse to their flow of money. It's pretty much that simple.

As for the lower level of politics, your average Democrat hates Trump because they were told to. They loved his cameos in movies; they watched his TV show; they like his pithey quotes in the NYT; they liked his donations!! But these same people will one day say, "we've always been at War with East Asia."
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 12:11:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: zoinks] [#17]

Here's a "Tale of Two Cities"

The PRC is committed to "actions" while the US is committed to "word smithing." No other way to really explain it. Goldenmead brought up the point of the RIMPAC being conducted near Hawaii instead of closer to the South China Seas. West of Midway is a damn good place to conduct the exercise. But that's not happening.

Let's get to some quotes for the CNBC report:
China has stepped up its aggression against the Philippines in the contested waters of the South China Sea, calling into question the strength of American deterrence, according to policy analysts.

Last week, the Chinese coast guard seized two Filipino ships on a resupply mission to an outpost on the Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly Islands, severely injuring a navy personnel, according to Philippine officials. The shoal is claimed by both Manila and Beijing.

The area has seen several clashes over the past months. Experts say the latest incident represents an escalation and shows the limitations of the U.S.-Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty signed in 1951.

"The failure of the MDT to deter the [latest confrontation] shows the vagueness in the conveyed commitments of the two parties," said Chester Cabalza, president and founder of the Philippines-based think tank International Development and Security Cooperation.
View Quote
Chester Cabalza, president and founder of the Philippines-based think tank International Development and Security Cooperation.
Last year, the Philippines and U.S. released new "Bilateral Defense Guidelines ," reaffirming that an "armed attack" in the South China Sea on Filipino vessels would invoke mutual defense obligations of the U.S.

China, on its part, has been careful not to trigger the MDT by avoiding the use of guns, instead employing " gray zone" tactics   coercive actions that fall short of an armed conflict   at the Second Thomas Shoal. These reportedly have included the use of water cannons and ramming into Philippine boats.
View Quote

Beijing's actions aim to stop resupply missions to a rusted Philippine vessel grounded on the shoal since 1999, as its existence there appears to lend credence to the Philippines' claim on the reef.

According to Cabalza, unless Manila and Washington do more to increase deterrence, Beijing will continue to employ "gray zone" tactics in its attempt to win the shoal and other areas contested by the Philippines.

"The usage of these tactics should be classified as an armed attack [in the MDT] if the U.S. is serious about helping the Philippines in its strategic and asymmetrical warfare with China," he said.
View Quote

An expanded definition of an "armed attack" in the treaty could include "any willful act to inflict injury or that leads to fatality on Filipinos," said Richard Heydarian, policy adviser and senior lecturer of international affairs at the University of the Philippines.

Those guidelines are consistent with the interpretation of the MDT in a report by the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command that was unclassified last year.

However, according to Heydarian, a muted Philippine reaction to last week's clash could be a sign of its apprehensions with regard to invoking the mutual defense treaty.
View Quote
Richard Heydarian, policy adviser and senior lecturer of international affairs at the University of the Philippines.
This is a link provided, but it's a dead PDF page:
https://www.pacom.mil/Portals/55/Documents/Legal/J06%20TACAID%20-%20SIERRA%20MADRE%20V2%20
If it works for anyone, please post!! Thanks

"The Philippine Government is confronted with a huge dilemma. It wants greater reassurance from the United States, but it's likely not getting that, and it also wants to avoid unwanted escalation," said Heydarian.

"It's extremely important for the Philippines and U.S. to signal that Filipino troops are empowered and sanctioned to use live firearms to defend themselves, and that usage of live firearms by China would immediately trigger the MDT," he added.
View Quote

However, according to Abdul Rahman Yaacob, a research fellow at the Lowy Institute's Southeast Asia Program, the U.S. is unlikely to widen the scope of the defense pact, as doing so could draw them into a wider military conflict.
View Quote


Let's do the second article from Reuters:
US reiterates 'ironclad' commitment to Philippines amid China actions in South China Sea
View Quote
WASHINGTON, June 27 (Reuters) - The United States reaffirmed its commitment to the Philippines' security amid China's actions in the South China Sea, the White House said on Thursday after talks between the two countries' national security advisers.

U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan and his Philippine counterpart, Eduardo A o, on Wednesday "discussed shared concerns over the People's Republic of China's dangerous and escalatory actions against the Philippines' lawful maritime operations near Second Thomas Shoal in the South China Sea," the White House said in a statement.
View Quote
That's it!! That's the whole thing.

We started this thread a couple of years ago as a punch line to the joke that is US Foreign Policy, and also to see if the Biden Admin would "live" up to its own words and standards over PRC policies/actions in the Solomon Islands and, by extension, the entire region. The Biden Administration did not...at all...never even brought up PRC para-military units in the Solomon Islands or remarked on the number of visits by PLAN "hospital" ships that moored in their ports.
(For those that weren't visiting the thread back then, the PLAN has 12 "hospital" ships, and by the antennae array that can be seen, they are used as intelligence gathering missions and have a contingent of armed troops aboard. They're really careful about who's onboard when in port or when they actually show up for humanitarian events.)
On the other hand, they did reopen consulates through out the area. I can't say how oftened they're manned, but they exist to have mail delivered. (Embassies have Ambassadors assigned in residence.)

Other than that, we should be grateful the the PRC is led by a bunch of old ladies. I would've already attacked...everybody!! By the time they can gather up forces and launch a counter-offensive of some sort, it's time for diplomacy to take over. I win!


Link Posted: 6/30/2024 12:17:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Still no Score Card!!!
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 12:45:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:

Here's a "Tale of Two Cities"

The PRC is committed to "actions" while the US is committed to "word smithing." No other way to really explain it. Goldenmead brought up the point of the RIMPAC being conducted near Hawaii instead of closer to the South China Seas. West of Midway is a damn good place to conduct the exercise. But that's not happening.

Let's get to some quotes for the CNBC report:
Chester Cabalza, president and founder of the Philippines-based think tank International Development and Security Cooperation.


Richard Heydarian, policy adviser and senior lecturer of international affairs at the University of the Philippines.
This is a link provided, but it's a dead PDF page:
https://www.pacom.mil/Portals/55/Documents/Legal/J06%20TACAID%20-%20SIERRA%20MADRE%20V2%20
If it works for anyone, please post!! Thanks




Let's do the second article from Reuters:
That's it!! That's the whole thing.

We started this thread a couple of years ago as a punch line to the joke that is US Foreign Policy, and also to see if the Biden Admin would "live" up to its own words and standards over PRC policies/actions in the Solomon Islands and, by extension, the entire region. The Biden Administration did not...at all...never even brought up PRC para-military units in the Solomon Islands or remarked on the number of visits by PLAN "hospital" ships that moored in their ports.
(For those that weren't visiting the thread back then, the PLAN has 12 "hospital" ships, and by the antennae array that can be seen, they are used as intelligence gathering missions and have a contingent of armed troops aboard. They're really careful about who's onboard when in port or when they actually show up for humanitarian events.)
On the other hand, they did reopen consulates through out the area. I can't say how oftened they're manned, but they exist to have mail delivered. (Embassies have Ambassadors assigned in residence.)

Other than that, we should be grateful the the PRC is led by a bunch of old ladies. I would've already attacked...everybody!! By the time they can gather up forces and launch a counter-offensive of some sort, it's time for diplomacy to take over. I win!


View Quote

Team Biden has e pressed fear of involvement in a war during an election year - I guess Democrats hate Russia are indifferent to China at best but are anti war otherwise yet that mentality usually leads to an inevitable war by peeling back deterrence under the false notion deterrence leads to war.


Should team Biden remain in the White House there is no third term. Team Biden are corrupted incompetent losers but seem to go where the wind blows like flip flopping on condemning Iran after Europe pressured them to join in on the condemnation of Iran’s nuke program or how South Korea and Japan got Team Biden to send some bombers and subs to reassure them over China and North Korea.

Team Biden doesn’t call shots they stick their thumb up in the air on polls between grifting
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 12:47:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:
You guys may not remember earlier this year when Carmel posted the video link to a Congressional Hearing on the South China Seas.
This guy...
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1737/p01-240629-us_jpg-3253519.JPG
is the guy that kept answering questions with the phrase, "we have a strategy."

Originally, I couldn't find any information on trying cases in absentia. I assumed the PRC would be pretty much kidnapping people. But, if the professionals say "absentia" is there, good enough for me.

View Quote

China in fact kidnapped 36 Taiwanese in Africa put them on a plane bound for China and tried them in China a few years ago
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 1:03:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 1:15:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 1:42:34 PM EDT
[#23]
They "discussed concerns"

!!!

That must mean things are gettting serious!
Link Posted: 6/30/2024 3:30:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
So the we kicked off RIMPAC yesterday.  Instead of doing this massive exercise around Hawaii we need to do it around the Philippines. That will send a clear message to China.  When the Philippines try to resupply the second thomas shoal we should be sending half a dozen warships and a dozen aircraft.  The Philippines are an actual treaty ally and we are definitely not acting like they are.  

Our whole foreign policy is a dumpster fire.
View Quote

100% correct. I don't know the geographical scope of the exercise, but surely there is open space in the western Pacific to do it. Around Guam, maybe between Guam & Taiwan.
Link Posted: 7/1/2024 9:00:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea] [#25]
Sorry busy filming with Warner Brothers and missed opportunity to post it on propaganda Friday

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3268723/chinas-communist-party-track-100-million-members-years-end
Link Posted: 7/1/2024 9:13:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:

That's the thing, right?!?!  I have a working theory that development on Chinese aircraft has slowed way down because US aircraft development has slowed down as it is transitioning in another direction!!! NOTHING TO STEAL!!!!! Yet anyway.
View Quote
It's just the lag time in the development process. As insane as it sounds now, we did not appreciate the threat China posed until very recently.  The f117 was a 70s bird, B2 was 80s, f22 was 90s tech, F35 2000s.  I was working for a major defense contractor in the 2000s. Not in a defense division but same company.  We gave China gen 3 night vision. Biggest ITAR violation in the history of the state department.  They didn't have to work that hard for it, the company just didn't see the threat.

Certainly lockmart and Northrop did better but still China stole info.   I think now we are more aware and protect our info better, so it'll be a while before China can get its paws on tech specs.  It'll happen,  but we've slowed the leaks.

You can't manufacture something at scale without making the info more vulnerable.
Link Posted: 7/1/2024 9:16:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: xd341] [#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:

Appreciate your weighing in
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
Originally Posted By R0N:

Everyone is counting on SM6 as the Army and Marine Corps are fielding Mk41 VLS based systems

Appreciate your weighing in
But the navy just added PAC-3 to its VLS....so what does that mean?

Sorry guys I just realized I was 10 pages behind the discussion....
Link Posted: 7/1/2024 9:19:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 3:29:25 AM EDT
[#29]
Full blown trade war between China and Indonesia.

Indonesia will impose 100-200% tariffs on a range of Chinese imports.
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 9:45:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Full blown trade war between China and Indonesia.

Indonesia will impose 100-200% tariffs on a range of Chinese imports.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Full blown trade war between China and Indonesia.

Indonesia will impose 100-200% tariffs on a range of Chinese imports.
Can you post a link, please? I'll look for this when I get home in about 9-10 hours. Thank you!!

Score Card Time!!! This is the only one in about 4 days:
Taiwan tracks 7 Chinese naval ships, 6 military aircraft around nation
TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   The Ministry of National Defense (MND) tracked seven Chinese military aircraft and six military aircraft around Taiwan between 6 a.m. on Sunday (June 30) and 6 a.m. on Monday (July 1).

Of the six People's Liberation Army (PLA) aircraft, two PLA helicopters were tracked in the southwest and southeast portions of Taiwan's air defense identification zone (ADIZ), according to the MND. No PLA aircraft crossed the Taiwan Strait median line during that time.
Attachment Attached File

Last month, Taiwan tracked Chinese military aircraft 423 times and naval/coast guard vessels 229 times.
For a comparison, June's numbers are as big as May's numbers, and May had the Joint Sword, 2024 Exercise. (Joint Sword sounds so American. I'm quaking.)
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 10:35:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xd341:
It's just the lag time in the development process. As insane as it sounds now, we did not appreciate the threat China posed until very recently.  The f117 was a 70s bird, B2 was 80s, f22 was 90s tech, F35 2000s.  I was working for a major defense contractor in the 2000s. Not in a defense division but same company.  We gave China gen 3 night vision. Biggest ITAR violation in the history of the state department.  They didn't have to work that hard for it, the company just didn't see the threat.

Certainly lockmart and Northrop did better but still China stole info.   I think now we are more aware and protect our info better, so it'll be a while before China can get its paws on tech specs.  It'll happen,  but we've slowed the leaks.

You can't manufacture something at scale without making the info more vulnerable.
View Quote

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-funds-research-that-involves-chinese-military-linked-universities/
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 11:15:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 5:21:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GoldenMead] [#33]
Indonesia is set to introduce tariffs of up to 200 percent on imports from China, its biggest trade partner, citing an oversupply of goods from the world's second-largest economy.

https://thediplomat.com/2024/07/indonesia-announces-hefty-tariffs-on-chinese-made-goods/#:~:text=On%20Friday%2C%20a%20senior%20Indonesian,and%20medium%20enterprises%20

https://www.newsweek.com/china-dealt-trade-blow-indonesia-1920107
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 5:23:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Taiwan has demanded that Beijing releases a Taiwanese fishing boat that was boarded by the Chinese coastguard and steered to a port in mainland China.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/02/taiwan-demands-beijing-returns-fishing-boat-seized-by-coastguard
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 5:30:31 PM EDT
[#35]
I wonder if Biden knows about any of this? Lol
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 10:19:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xd341:
But the navy just added PAC-3 to its VLS....so what does that mean?

Sorry guys I just realized I was 10 pages behind the discussion....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xd341:
But the navy just added PAC-3 to its VLS....so what does that mean?

Sorry guys I just realized I was 10 pages behind the discussion....
10 pages???
At 2.25 beers per page, that's...(gears whirring, carry the two) that's 22.5 beers you have to drink!!! Good thing 4th of July is coming up.

SCORE CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Taiwan tracks 13 Chinese military aircraft, 6 naval ships around nation
(This is for the first day of July which was like 30+ something hours ago. I already did one math problem today.)
TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   The Ministry of National Defense (MND) tracked 13 Chinese military aircraft and six naval vessels around Taiwan between 6 a.m. on Monday (July 1) and 6 a.m. on Tuesday (July 2).

Of the 13 People's Liberation Army (PLA) aircraft, 10 crossed the Taiwan Strait median line in the northern, central, southwestern, and southeastern sectors of the nation's air defense identification zone (ADIZ), according to the MND.
Attachment Attached File

The South West is a much bigger holding area now.
13 and 6. (C and 6 if we want to show how cool we are instead.) Over 10 aircraft gets a count of its own. I think this is how I'm going to count on the side.


GoldMead story:
Taiwan demands China returns fishing boat seized by coastguard  
Taiwan has demanded that Beijing releases a Taiwanese fishing boat that was boarded by the Chinese coastguard and steered to a port in mainland China.
An offshore island in Kinmen, an archipelago controlled by Taiwan but just a few kilometres from China.

The Dajinman 88 was intercepted by two Chinese vessels late on Tuesday near the Kinmen archipelago, which lies a short distance off China's coast but is controlled by Taiwan, Taiwanese maritime authorities said.

They said Taiwan dispatched two vessels to rescue the Dajinman 88 but were blocked by Chinese boats and told not to interfere. The pursuit was called off to avoid escalating the conflict, they added.

"The coastguard calls on the mainland to refrain from engaging in political manipulation and harming cross-strait relations, and to release the Dajinman ship and crew as soon as possible," the maritime authorities said.

The boat had six crew onboard, including the captain and five migrant workers, Taiwan's official Central News Agency reported. The vessel was just over 20km (12 miles) from Jinjiang in mainland China when it was boarded, Taiwanese authorities said.
China claims self-governing Taiwan as its territory and says the island must come under its control. It regularly sends warplanes and ships toward Taiwan and in May staged a large exercise with dozens of aircraft and vessels.
We need to find another story on this topic. The Guardian writes this last paragraph, "China claims self-governing Taiwan as its territory and says the island must come under its control. It regularly sends warplanes and ships toward Taiwan and in May staged a large exercise with dozens of aircraft and vessels," without a context to the current story they're writing about. Typical!

Let's expand ourselves in one direction. The PRC boarded, took into custody a foreign crew and impounded a foreign boat out side of it's territorial waters, and there is no attempt by the Guardian to find out why. Was there a May Day?

With other Chinese Coast Guard boats blocking the progress of the Taiwanese Coast Guard boats, and getting on the PA telling the Taiwanese to halt their pursuit, if there was a May Day call, once again, the PRC  has violated international laws and conventions. One could say, The Chinese Coast Guard is acting as a privateer organization using letters of marque from the PRC.
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 10:45:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Indonesia is set to introduce tariffs of up to 200 percent on imports from China, its biggest trade partner, citing an oversupply of goods from the world's second-largest economy.

https://thediplomat.com/2024/07/indonesia-announces-hefty-tariffs-on-chinese-made-goods/#:~:text=On%20Friday%2C%20a%20senior%20Indonesian,and%20medium%20enterprises%20

https://www.newsweek.com/china-dealt-trade-blow-indonesia-1920107
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Indonesia is set to introduce tariffs of up to 200 percent on imports from China, its biggest trade partner, citing an oversupply of goods from the world's second-largest economy.

https://thediplomat.com/2024/07/indonesia-announces-hefty-tariffs-on-chinese-made-goods/#:~:text=On%20Friday%2C%20a%20senior%20Indonesian,and%20medium%20enterprises%20

https://www.newsweek.com/china-dealt-trade-blow-indonesia-1920107
Whoa!! Don't know what happened to that first link!!
Indonesia Announces Hefty Tariffs on Chinese-made Goods

On Friday, a senior Indonesian official announced that the country would impose an import tariff of up to 200 percent on a range of Chinese goods, in order to protect the country's micro, small, and medium enterprises (MSMEs).

Speaking to reporters, Trade Minister Zulkifli Hasan said that the trade conflict between China and the United States had prevented China from offloading its oversupply on many Western countries. This has led it to redirect exports to other markets like Indonesia, threatening the country's smaller businesses with "collapse."

"The United States can impose a 200-percent tariff on imported ceramics or clothes; we can do it as well to ensure our MSMEs and industries will survive and thrive," he said, the Antara news agency reported.

Reuters paraphrased Zulfikli by saying that the tariffs would range between 100 and 200 percent and that they "could affect imports of footwear, clothing, textiles, cosmetics and ceramics." A senior Trade Ministry official said that the Indonesian Trade Safeguards Committee would determine the levels of the tariffs and the categories of goods that would be covered.

This is not the first move aimed at tightening control over imports. Last year, Jakarta issued a regulation creating import quotas for hundreds of products, including food ingredients, footwear, electronics, and chemicals. But the government was then forced to issue a number of revisions to the law, after Indonesian companies complained that the quotas gummed up supply chains, making it hard for them to obtain imported materials needed by domestic industry.

Now, I'm not understanding this paragraph's use of the word "securitization":
U.S.-based observers cited the news of the imposition of these significant tariffs on Chinese goods as an example that nations in the Global South share the U.S. government's concerns about Chinese overcapacity. However, there are a number of key differences, the most obvious being that the issue has not been securitized in Indonesia to the extent that it has in the United States and other parts of the democratic West. It also involves basic items
Does the US sell securities, bonds or has a tranche for tariffs on Chinese goods or the trade deficit? I am unaware of what they are trying to say here.

The Diplomat does come to a conclusion for their article at least:
As such, the imposition of the tariffs is unlikely to disrupt the mutually beneficial aspects of bilateral ties between Beijing and Jakarta. China is currently Indonesia's main source of imports, and its main market for exports, and a continued flow of trade and investment is a necessary component of the Indonesian government's domestic economic agenda. In this sense, it makes sense to view the new tariffs as a means of adjusting the balance between domestic and international economic priorities, rather than as an expression of bilateral tensions.

As such, while Beijing will not be happy about the move, the broadly positive tenor of bilateral relations, as well as the desire to get off on the right foot with the incoming administration of Prabowo Subianto, suggests that it is unlikely to prompt a significant response.
This is "food for thought" as it needs to play out first.

Newsweek comes out swinging for some reason:
China Dealt Major Trade Blow by Neighbor
Indonesia is set to introduce tariffs of up to 200 percent on imports from China, its biggest trade partner, citing an oversupply of goods from the world's second-largest economy.

Indonesian Trade Minister Zulkifli Hasan said Friday that Western tariffs on Chinese goods are causing them to be redirected to countries such as Indonesia, according to media reports.

The Southeast Asian country is the latest on a growing list of developing nations to announce it would use the measure to shield local industries from perceived Chinese overcapacity.

The new import duties, w hich will range down to a minimum 100 percent rate, will take effect as soon as the regulation has been issued, the trade official said.

Chinese exports to Indonesia have dramatically risen in recent years, last year reaching $67.1 billion in value, more than double the 2016 figure, according to the U.N. Commodity Trade Statistics Database.

Chinese investment has also been pouring into Indonesia, as well, as part of a broader uptick in investment in the Asia-Pacific region.

A report published earlier this year by Australia's Griffith University and China's Fudan University, said nearly half China's investment in the Asia-Pacific went to Southeast Asia, with Indonesia receiving the most of any single country in that region.

Indonesia's decision to raise tariffs echoes recent protectionist moves by other Chinese trade partners.

Last month, Turkey announced a 40-percent tariff on Chinese vehicles amid projections that Chinese firms will more than double their 4.5 percent share of Turkey's automobile market.

Also last month, the European Union said it would raise tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles from 10 percent to as high as 48 percent.

The 27-member block cited Chinese subsidies that allegedly give its EV makers an unfair advantage.

China said the anti-dumping measures "lack factual and legal basis" and blasted the EU for hyping up the threat of Chinese state subsidies, acting against the interests of European consumers, and undermining global climate change efforts.


Here's a third story from Malaysia's number 1 source for automotive news. I shit you not, Gentlemen:
Indonesia to impose 200% tariff on goods from China to counter dumping   will this affect the auto industry?
(It's also easy to read and understand than the above.)
A brave move that few saw coming. We're not talking about AUKUS or Europe, but an ASEAN country 'standing up' to our region's superpower and biggest trade partner   China. Over the weekend, news surfaced from Indonesia saying that the country will soon impose import tariff of up to 200% on Chinese goods.

Should it happen, the move will immediately increase the cost of Chinese imports, and by some margin too. According to state news agency Antara, Indonesia's trade minister Zulkifli Hasan said the planned tariff is to mitigate the effects of the trade war between China and the United States.

How so? He explained that the ongoing trade war between China and the West is causing an oversupply situation in the Asian giant   as their products face rejection by Western countries, it forces them to redirect exports to other markets like Indonesia. The minister didn't use the word, but this practice is called dumping.
This guy even explains what he's referencing:
Acording to Investopedia, dumping is when a country (in this case, China) exports a product at a price that is lower in the foreign importing market (Indonesia) than the price in the exporter's domestic market. Because dumping typically involves substantial export volumes of a product, it often endangers the financial viability of the product's manufacturer or producer in the importing nation (again, Indonesia).

In other words, very few can compete with China's scale and low cost, and when the giant dumps its products on us, the products of local manufacturers will be rendered uncompetitive by the influx. Consumers typically don't mind cheaper goods, but as local businesses suffer, the effects will eventually be felt by the man on the street.
Not only that, this guy found the precursor step to China's dumping:
Interestingly, while researching this topic, I stumbled on a January 2024 article from China's Belt and Road portal, which highlights the Middle Kingdom's investments and inroads across the globe. Titled 'RCEP boosts trade cooperation between China, Indonesia', it cited the success of a company that manufactures coated ivory boards.

"With the certificates of origin under the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), our goods will enjoy a tariff reduction of nearly 20,000 yuan (RM12,977) when clearing customs in Indonesia," said Liu Ning, director of the company's export customs affairs. The batch of goods were valued at 430,000 yuan (RM278,994).

The RCEP entered into force on January 1, 2022, and it comprises 15 Asia Pacific countries including 10 ASEAN members and their five trading partners, namely China, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand.

RCEP took effect in Indonesia at the start of 2023, when the republic implemented immediate zero tariffs on 65.1% of products originating from China. The same gesture (67.9%) applies the other way, but China exports way more to Indonesia than the other way round. China has been Indonesia's largest trading partner for 10 consecutive years now.

Based on the China-ASEAN Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA), Indonesia will add zero-tariff treatment to more than 700 Chinese products, including auto parts, motorcycles, televisions, clothing, shoes and plastic products, the Belt and Road article added.
Plus, he comes to a conclusion:
So, we're witnessing a swift turnaround then, perhaps due to pressure from local manufacturers feeling the pinch. While this piece of news is about China-Indonesia trade, the same benefits and complications apply to other ASEAN countries too, including Malaysia. There's a price war in China's auto market now, and when they need to look outward, the nearest and most obvious target is Southeast Asia.

Attachment Attached File
          See!! Number 1!

Link Posted: 7/2/2024 11:04:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Here's the title:
China deploys aircraft carrier off Philippine coast amid tensions over South China Sea
one line summary:
Shandong, an aircraft carrier with a displacement of about 70,000 tonnes, was seen patrolling the waters of the Philippines.
So, besides offering the opportunity for the US Navy to record the audio of a bunch of PLAN ships, where is the USN so these small countries can see it?
Beijing: China has deployed its second aircraft carrier 'Shandong' which was spotted patrolling waters off the Philippine coast as Manila stepped up efforts to assert its claims over a shoal in the disputed South China Sea firmly opposing Beijing's counterclaims.

Shandong, an aircraft carrier with a displacement of about 70,000 tonnes, was seen patrolling the waters of the Philippines which serves as a deterrence against "continuous Philippine provocations" on Chinese islands and reefs in the South China Sea, state-run Global Times media reported on Monday.

The aircraft carrier is likely on a scheduled exercise that could also prepare it for a potential far sea voyage into the West Pacific, it quoted Chinese experts as saying.

Shandong's deployment comes after the People's Liberation Army (PLA) deployed major surface combat ships, including large and medium destroyers as well as the main amphibious landing ship in the South China Sea as the maritime territorial conflict with Manila escalated.

Ni Lexiong, a defence professor in the Department of Political Science at Shanghai University of Political Science and Law, was quoted by the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post as saying that the Shandong's passage was meant to be a deterrent to Manila and Washington and underline "China's determination to protect territorial sea sovereignty" amid tensions over the Second Thomas Shoal.

Chester Cabalza, president and founder of International Development and Security Cooperation, a Manila-based think tank, said the carrier's patrol was an example of "performative politics" by Beijing that could become a frequent event.

If so, it "would mean that there is a red flag on their national security", he said, adding that "once we see massive military force, that means that Beijing is preparing for a war", the Post reported.
From here on out, this Deccan Herald goes "fellow traveler" on us:
The China-Philippines confrontation to assert their claims in the disputed South China Sea took a violent turn last month as their naval ships collided in the first such incident after Beijing issued new rules to act against foreign vessels and detain foreigners "suspected of violating" regulations in the Chinese waters.

A few weeks ago, a Philippines naval ship and a Chinese vessel collided near the Second Thomas Shoal of the South China Sea claimed by Manila.

The navies and the coast guards of the two countries were having face-offs in the last few months as the Philippines, backed by the US, made a strong bid to assert its claims over the Second Thomas Shoal in the South China Sea (SCS) claimed by China.

China claims most of the South China Sea (SCS) which the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Brunei and Taiwan hotly dispute.
Again, the PRC claims have already been adjudicated, the PRC did more than just lose, the claims were found to be groundless and spurious.
But here's more of their BS:
China alleges that the Philippines deliberately ran a naval ship aground in 1999 at the Second Thomas Shoal, which it calls Renai Jiao, and converted the damaged ship into a permanent installation manned by naval personnel.
Grounding your own ships on your territory is not illegal; nor is sinking your own ships for that matter.

Now check this conflation out:
The Philippines, backed by the US, is trying to assert its claims over the SCS based on the 2016 ruling by a tribunal of the UN Convention of Law of Seas, (UNCLOS) endorsing its rights.

China, which boycotted the tribunal, however, rejected the tribunal findings and fiercely asserted its claims.
The conflation is "back by the US." The Philippines took the matter to the UNCLOS without US assistance or lawyers, but what the Deccan Herald is implying is that the Philippines "won" the decision because the Philippines is "backed by the US."

I've been noticing we've been doing Propaganda Friday almost every day for the last few weeks. (I mean I've been posting it, so I should've noticed.) That must mean things are ramping up.
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 11:48:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zoinks:

I've been noticing we've been doing Propaganda Friday almost every day for the last few weeks. (I mean I've been posting it, so I should've noticed.) That must mean things are ramping up.
View Quote


They are definitely priming their citizens for what they are about to do and convincing everyone that they are the victim and they are just defending what’s theirs.

The war drums are getting louder and louder.
Link Posted: 7/2/2024 11:53:39 PM EDT
[#40]
China, Philippines agree to lower tensions in South China Sea, boost communications

China and the Philippines have agreed to restore trust and build confidence in the South China Sea, two weeks after a skirmish near the disputed Second Thomas Shoal left a Filipino soldier injured and raised the risk of a serious conflict.

The agreement came after officials from both sides held “frank and constructive” talks on the South China Sea in Manila on July 2. The meeting was headed by Chinese Vice-Foreign Minister Chen Xiaodong and his Philippine counterpart Theresa Lazaro.

Maritime tensions have run high in the past year, with both sides clashing repeatedly over the Philippines’ resupply missions to the Second Thomas Shoal, where an ageing warship called the BRP Sierra Madre has been grounded since 1999 to serve as Manila’s remote military outpost.

The latest escalation came in a face-off between Chinese coast guard and Philippine naval vessels on June 17.

Using knives and spears, Chinese personnel boarded the Philippine Navy dinghies and confiscated firearms – the first intervention since new Chinese rules came into force on June 15 that authorise China’s coast guard to detain foreigners who trespass into waters it proclaims as its own.

On July 2, the Philippines said that “both sides recognised that there is a need to restore trust, rebuild confidence and create conditions conducive to productive dialogue and interaction”.

“The two sides discussed their respective positions on Ayungin Shoal and affirmed their commitment to de-escalate tensions without prejudice to their respective positions,” said the Philippine statement, which added that “significant differences remain”. Ayungin is the local name for the Second Thomas Shoal.

The July 2 talks, called the Ninth Meeting of the Bilateral Consultation Mechanism on the South China Sea, is a dialogue that began in 2017. Chinese President Xi Jinping had agreed with then Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte to establish this dialogue in 2016. The last meeting was held in Shanghai on Jan 17, 2024.

Both sides agreed to continue discussions on maritime cooperation, such as between their coast guards, and an academic forum among scientists and academics on marine scientific and technological cooperation.

They also agreed to hold the 10th meeting of the bilateral talks in China, although no specific date was mentioned.

While analysts welcomed the positive signals for peace, there was little sign that either side was ready to back down on its sovereignty claims.

Ms Lazaro said that her country would be “relentless in protecting its interests and upholding the sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction in the West Philippine Sea”.

In its statement about the meeting, China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that the country reiterated its sovereignty over the Nansha Islands, including the Ren’ai Jiao, referring to the Chinese names for the Spratly Islands and Second Thomas Shoal, respectively.

China urged the Philippines to “immediately stop its maritime infringement and provocative acts”, and work with China to manage the situation in the Ren’ai Jiao to ease the situation, added the statement.

Dr Ding Duo, deputy director of the Institute of Maritime Law and Policy at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies in China, however, saw it as a positive sign that the dialogue has continued at the vice-foreign minister level.

“As long as both sides keep talking, there is a chance to avoid conflict and reduce tensions,” he told The Straits Times, noting that they had agreed on a 10th meeting, which would sustain the positive momentum of talks.

“This signals there is mutual intention to set aside more contentious claims for now, and use this dialogue mechanism to manage differences and prevent accidents from happening.”

Dr Ding added that a possible point of friction would be whether the Philippines still intends to transport construction materials to reinforce the Sierra Madre warship, and what measures China will take in response. “That is probably the core issue.”

Whether the talks will have practical effects on calming tensions at sea, Dr Ding said he is “cautiously optimistic”; however, the Philippines might yet renege on mutual agreements, or the US might further interfere in the situation.

Beijing has claimed that Mr Duterte made a “gentleman’s agreement” with China at the end of 2021 that Manila would not make repairs to the Sierra Madre warship. President Ferdinand Marcos Jr’s administration has said there are no documents or records to prove such an agreement existed.

The Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly Islands lies in the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone, but also falls within China’s expansive nine-dash line, which it says forms a historical basis for its claims to most of the South China Sea.

Dr Collin Koh welcomed the dialogue, telling ST that it is in line with the Philippines’ strategy of being transparent in dealing with China’s increasingly aggressive behaviour in the disputed sea.

He said the talks also benefit Beijing “because they do not want to be seen as the bad guy”.

But he was sceptical about whether the communication mechanism would be effective in settling the dispute in the long run.

“My question is: How do you actually lower tensions and manage the situation if both sides, based on the statement, clearly still have differences?

“It seems to imply that the Chinese are not likely going to roll back on patrolling the area. On the Philippines’ side, the routine resupply mission will continue,” said Dr Koh.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/china-philippines-agree-to-lower-tensions-in-south-china-sea-boost-communications
Link Posted: 7/3/2024 6:26:43 PM EDT
[#41]
We’ll Pacific Ocean adjacent Gavin Newsom has big fans across the Pacific

https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/02/china-democrat-biden-steps-down-gavin-newsom/
Link Posted: 7/3/2024 7:46:09 PM EDT
[#42]
https://www.businessinsider.com/suspected-china-spy-bases-cuba-growing-near-us-sites-report-2024-7

Combine this thread with the above article and damned if this whole scenario doesn't come across like a series of books I've been reading called the 'monroe doctrine'

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1957634022/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Not great writing but it's an easy read.  However, the series seems to run parallel with events these days.  Let's hope life does not imitate art.
Link Posted: 7/4/2024 2:21:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 7/4/2024 10:51:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Score Card Time because for some reason, these reports are becoming precious!
Taiwan tracks 30 Chinese military aircraft, 8 naval ships around nation
TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   The Ministry of National Defense (MND) tracked 30 Chinese military aircraft and eight naval vessels around Taiwan between 6 a.m. on Wednesday (July 3) and 6 a.m. Thursday (July 4).

Of the 30 People's Liberation Army (PLA) aircraft, 19 crossed the Taiwan Strait median line and entered the northern, southwestern, and southeastern portions of the country's air defense identification zone (ADIZ), according to the MND.
View Quote
Attachment Attached File

So far this month, the MND has tracked Chinese military aircraft 65 times and naval ships 20 times.
View Quote
First thing is first! The black diagonal line is the "median" line, the half way point between the PRC and Taiwan. In the North East, the jutting out is in direct line to the Capital city of Taipei.

Second is compare this to the one above from a couple of days ago. This jutting out is now very provocative to say the least.

Plus, the naval ship contingent is down this month because of the carrier near the Philippines and the carrier operation to the North of here.

For such a large Navy, its really weird they can't operate more ships off their coast at a single time. If this was in the 1950s, I would say that as the PLAAF didn't put in a lot of fuel into aircraft to clamp down on defections, that only a few PLAN ships can be sent out of port for the same reason?; which doesn't make a lot of sense, but it may make for a good movie. So, our reason for this lies elsewhere.



Taiwan monitoring 3-day PLA military exercises in East China Sea
TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   The Ministry of National Defense (MND) Thursday (July 4) announced it is monitoring People's Liberation Army (PLA) drills in the East China Sea.

On Tuesday (July 2), the Zhejiang Maritime Safety Administration issued a navigation warning for specified coordinates at the Qiantang River estuary. It said from 4 a.m. on Wednesday (July 3) to 6 p.m. on Friday (July 5), live-fire "military exercises" would be carried out and entry is prohibited during this period.
View Quote
You may recall last week when Taiwan announced its exercise, the PRC cried "foul" (It was a lot stronger than that) when Taiwan its previous exercise.
Exercise area:
Attachment Attached File


Vietnamese journalist Duan Dong on X described the exercises as "large-scale." He pointed out that the southernmost point of the prohibited zone is less than 100 nautical miles (185 km) from northwest Taiwan.

The MND said it was monitoring the exercises and sea trials of new weapons. The ministry noted China issued airspace restrictions on Thursday to facilitate the Eastern Theater Command's annual live-fire drills.
View Quote

Lu Li-shih (   ), a former captain of the Taiwan Navy, on Monday (July 1) wrote on his Facebook page that a similar announcement issued by the Shanghai Maritime Safety Administration points to a third set of sea trials for the Fujian aircraft carrier. Lu said the focus of these exercises will be improving on the shortcomings of the last sea trial and completing dual ship operations with the Hulunhu (965) Type 901 fast combat support ship.

As for whether the carrier-based aircraft will practice landing, Lu said, similar to the Shandong aircraft carrier in the past, it will first perform "touch and go" maneuvers, with actual landings likely scheduled for the next phase. Touch-and-go maneuvers involve aircraft briefly landing on the carrier deck before taking off again without coming to a full stop.
View Quote

Link Posted: 7/4/2024 11:39:51 AM EDT
[#45]
Next story is something, I can't find evidence for:
US State Department closely monitoring Chinese seizure of Taiwan fishing boat

TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   The U.S. State Department Thursday (July 4) said it is closely monitoring the status of a seized Taiwanese fishing boat by China and its crew.
View Quote
The above is the part I can't find any evidence for. The only two press briefings at the US Dept of State site is from 1JUL and 2JUL and Taiwan was never addressed over any subject. On their Press Release page, there were no statements from the US regarding this issue or even Taiwan.

The story linked was publish a number of hours ago. I'll check over the weekend to see if the DOS site updated press releases for this.

But, if true!...that's the extent of what the US Gov't is willing to say.

I found an illustration of where the seizure occured from CNA English, and then I brilliantly deleted the webpage before I put in the link and no I have options set to not save history because sometimes my genius out does me when I don't want it to.
Attachment Attached File

The Taiwanese boat was taken outside of Chinese territorial waters as we reported earlier because that's what we do here!! Mother-fuckers.

On Tuesday (July 2), the Chinese coast guard boarded and seized the Da Jin Man No. 88 (   88) and detained its crew. A U.S. State Department spokesperson told CNA it is monitoring the situation and encourages both parties to maintain open lines of communication to resolve the matter peacefully.

The Taiwanese boat was intercepted by two Chinese coast guard ships 43.89 km (23.7 NM) northeast of Liaoluo Bay in Kinmen and taken to Fujian's Weitou Port. Two Taiwanese and three Indonesians were on board the fishing vessel.

The Taiwan Coast Guard Administration (CGA) said on Wednesday (July 3) that the incident occurred within Chinese waters. The CGA said it would request relevant authorities to advise the fishing associations to avoid operating in these waters during China's summer fishing moratorium.

CGA Deputy Director-General Hsieh Ching-chin (   ) Wednesday said follow-up negotiations with China would be handled through the Mainland Affairs Council and the Fisheries Agency. Hsieh called for the release of the crew and boat.
View Quote

On Wednesday, China's Taiwan Affairs Office claimed the vessel's seizure was an act of "normal law enforcement" and the relevant departments would handle it per laws and regulations.
View Quote
It was early this year, Jan or Feb, we covered the US Coast Guard boarding some Chinese fishing, not boats, but ships near Kiribati which is a contract job for the US Coast Guard.

It's always possible that this is a tit-for-tat- by the PRC, but I believe this is more provocation towards Taiwan to force a confrotation.

But WAIT, there's more!
China protests against Festival Off Avignon inviting Taiwan as guest of honor
TAIPEI (Taiwan News)   China called on the organizers of the Festival Off Avignon cultural event in France to scrap Taiwan as its guest of honor, reports said Thursday (July 4).

Taiwan was chosen as the festival's first-ever featured country due to its 17-year history of cooperation, per CNA. Yet, on the eve of the July 3-21 arts event, the Chinese embassy in Paris called the organizers, threatening to pull out if they went ahead with their plans for Taiwan.

While China had also actively participated in the event, with a celebration planned for 60 years of diplomatic relations with France, the organizers said they wanted to continue and emphasize the independence, autonomy, and diversity of the festival.
View Quote
Stand by for typical leftist wishy-washy answer regarding one visitor who is not a "Trump" or a "Le Pen" making demands against another visitor:
Co-organizer Harold David said that China might also be invited as a guest of honor in the future, but that they would not chase away a current guest just because another one did not agree with them. The festival was open to hearing different points of view, but would never accept violence and threats, said the other co-organizer, Laurent Domingos.

They added that the board of organizer Avignon Festival et Compagnies had not yet taken a stance on the dispute. The event did not want a dispute, but Chinese diplomats had taken a hard line on the issue, they said.
View Quote
Leftist hypocrisy knows no end.
Link Posted: 7/4/2024 2:37:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 7/4/2024 4:53:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Well, at least we know for certain now that the Newsom is on their payroll. When he does run for President we can wonder in amazement that all those Chinese restaurants will be giving "small  dollar donations" that leap into the millions as they did with Clinton, Obama and Biden (to a lesser extent as his son was given millions). The funny thing has always been that these same restaurants employ many a "Esteban, Jose and Rodrigo" in their Kitchens. But, Hey!! That's how the Democrats roll.

Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
We'll Pacific Ocean adjacent Gavin Newsom has big fans across the Pacific

https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/02/china-democrat-biden-steps-down-gavin-newsom/
View Quote
This piece is originally a Bloomberg piece, so no need to check out sources what-so-ever. Let's just get to the fawning, shall we?
Since Biden stumbled against Donald Trump last week, Chinese social media users have posted photos and video clips of the California state governor, who was a hit during his visit to the world's No. 2 economy last year.
View Quote
Then there's multiple quotes from Chinese bloggers and these guys know how to suck dick with the written word. Most impressive, so we'll skip it.
President Xi Jinping gave Newsom an audience in Beijing last October, in his first meeting with a US state governor in six years. During that weeklong trip, the Democrat hailed China's success as a boon for the rest of the world, as he pushed for progress between the two sides on climate change.
View Quote
We are going to do Henry Wang, though!!
"Newsom represents a fresh but also positive and more sober-minded politician in the US," said Henry Wang, founder of the Center for China and Globalization, a Beijing-based think tank. "He could be a cool head among this anti-China US consensus."
View Quote
This next one is my favorite quote of the peice:
Newsom understands the benefits of business ties to China better than other American politicians because of California's large economy and its Chinese-American population, Wang added.
View Quote
Yup, the Cantonese speakers here really love those commie ruling Mandarins so much, it literally hurts. In fact, they love so much, that the PRC, since the Carter Admin agreed to the immigration process back in 1979 or cerca 1979, the PRC has been sending in Northerners into the US damn near exclusively. Fujian has been the big area of immigrants up to before Obama.


Let's go to the next hand job:
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:
From pro China news

https://asiatimes.com/2024/07/newsom-a-better-bet-than-biden-for-china-ties/
View Quote
Newsom a better bet than Biden for China ties
California governor views China through a different, more positive lens than Biden or Trump
View Quote
A lot of this story has the same basic elements and structure and people quotated from the Bloomberg story. If you ever wondered which side Blooomberg is on, wonder no more!
The recent US debate was not kind to Joe Biden. The president's lackluster performance has prompted discussions about potential replacements, with California Governor Gavin Newsom's name gaining particular traction.  

This scenario has already found considerable favor in China. There are compelling reasons why Newsom's ascension could be beneficial for both US-China relations and the broader global economy.

Chinese social media has been abuzz with discussions about Newsom. Images and videos of the governor, who made a significant impression during his visit to China last year, have been widely shared.  
View Quote
Oh look!! It's Henry Wang again! I wonder what he has to say in this story:
Henry Wang, founder of the Center for China and Globalization, describes Newsom as a "pragmatic and balanced politician."  

Wang emphasized that the governor's perspective could bring a level-headed approach to US-China relations, which have been dangerously strained over Taiwan and the Biden administration's technological restrictions, including on high-end chips and chip-making equipment.  

Newsom's ability to focus on common goals rather than differences would, I am confident, help de-escalate US-China tensions and promote mutual growth.
View Quote
And here's my favorite quote of this piece which is similar to my other favorite quote in the first link Carmel provided:
California's robust economy and significant Chinese-American population give Newsom a unique insight into the benefits of strong business ties with China.

This understanding positions him well to advocate for policies that nurture economic collaboration. Strengthening these ties could lead to increased trade, investment opportunities and job creation on both sides of the Pacific.
View Quote
The one thing this article does give, being that it's what's known as an organ for the CCP, is the CCP's wish list:
Better relations would also nurture increased bilateral investments, with businesses from each country more willing to invest in the other, boosting economic growth and job creation.

Cooperation in tech and innovation in areas such as renewable energy, artificial intelligence and healthcare would boost investor confidence and therefore markets.

Closer ties would also lead to more efficient and resilient supply chains, reducing disruptions, distortions and costs. This is especially important in a world where supply chains are highly interconnected and reliant on both US and Chinese manufacturing and logistics capabilities.
View Quote
The interesting part of all this conjecture is that for Newsom to be elected either President or Vice-President, Harris has to be gone othewise all the electors from California would be ineligible to vote due to the proscription of the 12 Amendment:
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves;....
View Quote
One can only wonder about the amount of "kiddy pron" her or her husband will be caught with so that even the most die hard Democrat out there won't vote for her?
Link Posted: 7/4/2024 5:53:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
https://www.businessinsider.com/suspected-china-spy-bases-cuba-growing-near-us-sites-report-2024-7

Combine this thread with the above article and damned if this whole scenario doesn't come across like a series of books I've been reading called the 'monroe doctrine'

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1957634022/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&;psc=1

Not great writing but it's an easy read.  However, the series seems to run parallel with events these days.  Let's hope life does not imitate art.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
https://www.businessinsider.com/suspected-china-spy-bases-cuba-growing-near-us-sites-report-2024-7

Combine this thread with the above article and damned if this whole scenario doesn't come across like a series of books I've been reading called the 'monroe doctrine'

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1957634022/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&;psc=1

Not great writing but it's an easy read.  However, the series seems to run parallel with events these days.  Let's hope life does not imitate art.
Thanks to 2tired2run, I was very much intrigued by the link provided, but not made hot:
Suspected Chinese spy bases in Cuba are growing, including one near a US naval base: report

The way I've chosen to present it, renders a TL:DR summary:
  • Reports of the PRC opening spy bases in Cuba
  • Center for Strategic and International Studies finds four places that are likely candidates
  • China has no idea what all this means; never heard of such a thing
  • US says the reports are wrong!!! But, can't talk about it
  • Cuban Foreign Minister, well, we'll be focusing on his quotes for the lulz
The link provided to 2tired2run has links to past stories, so that's why I did the TL:DR. From the provided link:
Potential spy bases believed to be linked to China have been found in Cuba, with one near the Guant namo Bay US naval base, according to a report by the Washington DC-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.

CSIS analysts looked at satellite imagery and open-source information and identified four "active" sites in Cuba that they say are capable of conducting electronic surveillance operations.

One of them is a previously undisclosed building located about 70 miles from the US naval facility in Guant namo Bay, the report said.

"These four sites are among the most likely locations supporting China's efforts to spy on the United States," it said.
Last year, multiple news outlets   citing officials with knowledge of sensitive intelligence   reported that China wanted to set up a spy base in Cuba.

Two unnamed US officials told Politico at the time that Beijing and Havana were negotiating to build a station about 100 miles off the coast of Florida, possibly to gather signal information on military sites there.

Unnamed US officials also told The Wall Street Journal last year that China and Cuba had agreed in principle to a multibillion-dollar project for the development of the base.

CNN and The New York Times also reported on the agreement and planned facilities.
At the time, the Department of Defense and the White House pushed back on the reports.
and lastly
An unnamed US official also told the Associated Press last year that China had been operating in Cuba since at least 2019.
Strangely enough, it really doesn't matter where these bases are in Cuba, but you can go to the link and read for yourselves. What's really intriguing is that the Biden Admin doesn't want to talk about any of it at all. They've already made up their minds that "White Nationalists" and veterans compose the entire class of Domestic Terrorism, and that's where the real threat lies...plus Global Warming! Don't forget that one!!

Here's the first major story of someone paying the Cubans, so they can spy on the US:
Everything We Know About The Huge Spy Base In Cuba That Russia Is Reopening

This was written in 2014 during the Obama Admin at a time when the Obama Admin wanted to normalize US-Cuban relations, so they denied this story right from the get go.

Moscow and Havana have agreed to reopen a Cold War-era signals intelligence (SIGINT) base in Lourdes, Cuba.

An agreement was reached during Putin's visit to Cuba last week to reopen the base, Russia business daily Kommersant reported last week. That was confirmed by a Russian security source who told Reuters: "A framework agreement has been agreed."
Moscow and Havana have agreed to reopen a Cold War-era signals intelligence (SIGINT) base in Lourdes, Cuba.

An agreement was reached during Putin's visit to Cuba last week to reopen the base, Russia business daily Kommersant reported last week. That was confirmed by a Russian security source who told Reuters: "A framework agreement has been agreed."
The Lourdes facility was reported to cover a 28 square-mile area with over 1,500 Russian engineers, technicians, and military personnel working at the base.
No way it's (the Russian base) that big again!

Here's one of the earliest stories of the PRC wanting to get a spy base in Cuba from 8JUN23:
 defense China seeking to spy on the U.S. from a base in Cuba
The move would allow Beijing to surveil the southeastern United States, home to many military facilities and sensitive industries.
This is the basic structure of the all the stories:
China is in talks with Cuba to establish a foothold there to spy on the United States, two senior U.S. officials said, a provocative move that already has lawmakers warning about parallels to the Cold War.

The officials, granted anonymity to discuss an extremely sensitive intelligence matter, said that China was in direct conversations with Cuba to set up a base on the island nation just 100 miles from the United States. It would allow Beijing to collect signals intelligence on southeastern portions of America, home to many military facilities and major industries. Evidence of the negotiations came to light in recent weeks, the officials said.

Such a pact between China and Cuba could threaten to derail the Biden administration's efforts to "thaw" its frosty relations with Beijing. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is expected to visit China in the coming weeks, a trip that was postponed in February after the U.S. shot down a Chinese spy balloon after it traversed North America. Diplomacy with China continues mainly at the economic and trade level, while military-to-military discussions are practically nonexistent.

The Wall Street Journal, which was first to report on the discussions, said Beijing and Havana reached a "secret agreement" whereby China pays Cuba billions of dollars for a facility. The two officials told POLITICO they couldn't confirm that there was a finalized deal, only that China was in discussions with Cuba about spying on the United States.

On Thursday morning, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby didn't confirm any negotiations between China and Cuba but said the administration was watching China's movements in the region closely. After publication, Kirby told POLITICO the reports were "not accurate" without specifying which details were wrong. He added: "We remain confident that we are able to meet all our security commitments at home and in the region."

The Way Back Machine didn't have the original Wall Street Journal article available.

In Blue above is the Kirby Response, never wavering, throughout the series of articles.
Here is the Chinese Embassy in Washington D.C.'s response:
The CIA declined a request to comment on the talks. The State Department did not immediately respond to requests for comment. The Chinese embassy in Washington declined to comment on the issue, saying in a statement "we are not aware of the case."
Now, please allow me to introduce the honorable Deputy Foreign Minister of Cuba, Carlos Fernandez de Cossio:

Cuba's Deputy Foreign Minister Carlos Fern ndez de Cossio said in a statement that the WSJ story was full of "totally false and unfounded information" and that Cuba rejects the presence of a foreign military throughout Latin America and the Caribbean. The Cuban Embassy did not respond to a question about any talks with China about a deal to spy on the United States.
The Obama Admin had an agreement back in 2015 to have embassies in the two countries.

Next story is from CNN and it's the next day, 9JUN24:
Cuba gives China permission to build spying facility on island, US intel says

The article goes throught the same structure as above with all the players, especially with Adm Kirby going with the "not accurate" judgement.

And again, may I present the Honorable Deputy Foreign Minister of Cuba, Carlos Fernandez de Cossio:
Cuban Deputy Foreign Minister Carlos Fernandez de Cossio denied the reports.

At a press conference in Havana on Thursday, he called them "totally untrue" and "slanders."

"Slanders like these have been fabricated frequently by US officials," he said, alleging that the reported spy base was being used to legitimize US sanctions on Cuba.

"Fallacies promoted with the malicious intention to justify the unprecedented reinforcement of the economic blockade, destabilization and the aggression against Cuba and deceive public opinion in the United States and around the world," de Cossio added.
I must say this is quite the vocabulary for a "man of the people" and a dedicated Communist to boot! Can the Workers actually understand what he's saying without a diccionario? Beats me!

Next is the Business Insider again, it is still 9JUN24:
Reports say China plans to set up a spy base in Cuba. The Pentagon says that's not right, but it's closely watching what Beijing is up to.

We have two new players in this round:
Looking at China's deals and investments through a military lens, Gen. Laura Richardson, the head of US Southern Command, said in 2021 that she perceives China's activities in the region as a means of "projecting and sustaining military power." She and others have continuously sounded the alarm over the years.
You can tell Gen. Laura Richardson went to General School.
Our Second Player:
The Pentagon responded to the reports of China's plan for a spy facility in Cuba Thursday afternoon, with spokesman Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder saying that he'd seen the reporting and "based on the information that we have that that is not accurate."
"Accurate" is an interesting word. It means with in a specified standard. It doesn't mean "wrong" or "missed completely."

It turns out the PRC does have something to say in this story, but first, I must announce the presence of the Honorable Deputy Foreign Minister of Cuba, Carlos Fernandez de Cossio:
The Cuban foreign ministry called the reporting on the planned base "fallacies promoted with the perfidious intention" while China's foreign ministry said it wasn't aware of the reports but argued the "US is an expert on chasing shadows and meddling in other countries' internal affairs."
Guess who went to Cambridge?????

Last story, Admiral Kirby decided to talk just a little bit more and with the Intelligence Community decided to throw its hat in the ring (everybody else was getting the Press) and also the Honorable Deputy Foreign Minister of Cuba, Carlos Fernandez de Cossio had some last thoughts on the subject:
US confirms China has had a spy base in Cuba since at least 2019
This is from 10JUN24:
"I've seen that press report, it's not accurate," White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said in an MSNBC interview Thursday. "What I can tell you is that we have been concerned since day one of this administration about China's influence activities around the world; certainly in this hemisphere and in this region, we're watching this very, very closely."

The U.S. intelligence community had determined Chinese spying from Cuba has been an "ongoing" matter and is "not a new development," the administration official said.

Cuban Deputy Foreign Minister Carlos Fern ndez de Coss o also refuted the report in a Twitter post Saturday.

"The slanderous speculation continues, evidently promoted by certain media to cause harm and alarm without observing minimum patterns of communication and without providing data or evidence to support what they disseminate," he wrote.

It looks like it's "old news" that the PRC is spying from Cuba, so what's all the fuss about?
Link Posted: 7/4/2024 6:10:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
China, Philippines agree to lower tensions in South China Sea, boost communications

China and the Philippines have agreed to restore trust and build confidence in the South China Sea, two weeks after a skirmish near the disputed Second Thomas Shoal left a Filipino soldier injured and raised the risk of a serious conflict.

The agreement came after officials from both sides held “frank and constructive” talks on the South China Sea in Manila on July 2. The meeting was headed by Chinese Vice-Foreign Minister Chen Xiaodong and his Philippine counterpart Theresa Lazaro.

Maritime tensions have run high in the past year, with both sides clashing repeatedly over the Philippines’ resupply missions to the Second Thomas Shoal, where an ageing warship called the BRP Sierra Madre has been grounded since 1999 to serve as Manila’s remote military outpost.

The latest escalation came in a face-off between Chinese coast guard and Philippine naval vessels on June 17.

Using knives and spears, Chinese personnel boarded the Philippine Navy dinghies and confiscated firearms – the first intervention since new Chinese rules came into force on June 15 that authorise China’s coast guard to detain foreigners who trespass into waters it proclaims as its own.

On July 2, the Philippines said that “both sides recognised that there is a need to restore trust, rebuild confidence and create conditions conducive to productive dialogue and interaction”.

“The two sides discussed their respective positions on Ayungin Shoal and affirmed their commitment to de-escalate tensions without prejudice to their respective positions,” said the Philippine statement, which added that “significant differences remain”. Ayungin is the local name for the Second Thomas Shoal.

The July 2 talks, called the Ninth Meeting of the Bilateral Consultation Mechanism on the South China Sea, is a dialogue that began in 2017. Chinese President Xi Jinping had agreed with then Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte to establish this dialogue in 2016. The last meeting was held in Shanghai on Jan 17, 2024.

Both sides agreed to continue discussions on maritime cooperation, such as between their coast guards, and an academic forum among scientists and academics on marine scientific and technological cooperation.

They also agreed to hold the 10th meeting of the bilateral talks in China, although no specific date was mentioned.

While analysts welcomed the positive signals for peace, there was little sign that either side was ready to back down on its sovereignty claims.

Ms Lazaro said that her country would be “relentless in protecting its interests and upholding the sovereignty, sovereign rights and jurisdiction in the West Philippine Sea”.

In its statement about the meeting, China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that the country reiterated its sovereignty over the Nansha Islands, including the Ren’ai Jiao, referring to the Chinese names for the Spratly Islands and Second Thomas Shoal, respectively.

China urged the Philippines to “immediately stop its maritime infringement and provocative acts”, and work with China to manage the situation in the Ren’ai Jiao to ease the situation, added the statement.

Dr Ding Duo, deputy director of the Institute of Maritime Law and Policy at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies in China, however, saw it as a positive sign that the dialogue has continued at the vice-foreign minister level.

“As long as both sides keep talking, there is a chance to avoid conflict and reduce tensions,” he told The Straits Times, noting that they had agreed on a 10th meeting, which would sustain the positive momentum of talks.

“This signals there is mutual intention to set aside more contentious claims for now, and use this dialogue mechanism to manage differences and prevent accidents from happening.”

Dr Ding added that a possible point of friction would be whether the Philippines still intends to transport construction materials to reinforce the Sierra Madre warship, and what measures China will take in response. “That is probably the core issue.”

Whether the talks will have practical effects on calming tensions at sea, Dr Ding said he is “cautiously optimistic”; however, the Philippines might yet renege on mutual agreements, or the US might further interfere in the situation.

Beijing has claimed that Mr Duterte made a “gentleman’s agreement” with China at the end of 2021 that Manila would not make repairs to the Sierra Madre warship. President Ferdinand Marcos Jr’s administration has said there are no documents or records to prove such an agreement existed.

The Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly Islands lies in the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone, but also falls within China’s expansive nine-dash line, which it says forms a historical basis for its claims to most of the South China Sea.

Dr Collin Koh welcomed the dialogue, telling ST that it is in line with the Philippines’ strategy of being transparent in dealing with China’s increasingly aggressive behaviour in the disputed sea.

He said the talks also benefit Beijing “because they do not want to be seen as the bad guy”.

But he was sceptical about whether the communication mechanism would be effective in settling the dispute in the long run.

“My question is: How do you actually lower tensions and manage the situation if both sides, based on the statement, clearly still have differences?

“It seems to imply that the Chinese are not likely going to roll back on patrolling the area. On the Philippines’ side, the routine resupply mission will continue,” said Dr Koh.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/china-philippines-agree-to-lower-tensions-in-south-china-sea-boost-communications
View Quote

Dialogue while continuing to act provocatively.
Link Posted: 7/5/2024 11:21:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea] [#50]
Page / 47
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top