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Posted: 4/12/2022 3:30:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: << Bridge Inspector sitting in a inspection training class. This thread should be pretty interesting.  Can you ask the bridge inspector inspection training instructor if a bridge inspector should inspect this bridge? |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 3:38:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Nah, more fun to see what GD comes up with.
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Posted: 4/12/2022 3:50:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Muddy run off water and outflows indicate soil being removed from under the slab. Lack of vertical concrete or sheet pile cut off walls under the slab, burrowing mammals, broken drainage system and most likely not doing any maintenance grouting under the slab all contributed. Agree. Drainage from above is being routed to the embankment, and the concrete apron has been undermined. 1. Re-route drainage. 2. Remove undermined apron. 3. Remove & recompact disturbed soil. 4. Build new apron. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 3:51:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, more fun to see what GD comes up with. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 3:55:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are on page 2, it is OK to give answers to the class now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nah, more fun to see what GD comes up with. Well he's still doing his training, so should we trust his answers? 
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Posted: 4/12/2022 3:58:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well he's still doing his training, so should we trust his answers? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nah, more fun to see what GD comes up with. Well he's still doing his training, so should we trust his answers? 
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:09:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/165887/QzgGBMT-2346724.jpg I'm not a structural engineer, but I watch one on YT  In red: exposed rebar is a BAD thing. Once rebar starts to corrode, it busts up the concrete. In orange: that shit used to be buried and/or have soil underneath it. Significant erosion is ALREADY happening. In blue: I don't know how you guys do it there, but all the bridge pilings I've seen driven up here are driven vertically. That looks to be an issue to me, but I could be wrong. Also, could be camera angle giving an optical illusion. Either way, that shit should not be exposed like that. Pile battering is common. It gives you a little bit of horizontal capacity rather than just straight axial capacity. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:12:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like TX and OK spend the same amount of time taking care of their bridges https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.dd99d76bb382b7e24b6e76059bfb8163?rik=1i08BDeHKpnObA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fstatic-11.sinclairstoryline.com%2fresources%2fmedia%2f5fee517d-cfd6-456c-8b05-8b67f71cf555-large16x9_kokh1.jpg%3f1463689230261&ehk=7dMeBvIRYuG79xN%2bSoh2go4UM9OQ9wgFSwyyuvSTEeE%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0 You sure that isn't a screen cap from fallout 4? |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:13:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The abutment should be sitting on piles/a deep foundation. I think the broken concrete is just to prevent erosion. In theory it could be a problem, but there would have to be a whole lot of erosion first. Edit: skimmed too fast. One of the piles is actually exposed. Yes, I would call the DOT. No, fwd to local media outlets. I bet you get popped for trespassing for being helpful. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:16:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pile battering is common. It gives you a little bit of horizontal capacity rather than just straight axial capacity. True. Look at piles beneath ocean piers. A lot of them aren't vertical, for a reason. Lateral loading is a thing where waves or other lateral impacts are anticipated. It could be that bridge gets some impact loading from heavy truck traffic, dunno, but it's possible. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:16:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Local I like the sound of that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Only call if you are bored an like to talk to people who have no control and don't give a shit. If you can get a local news station to run a hit piece on highway funds being siphoned for migrant housing you might get some traction. Local I like the sound of that. Local ghetto dirt biker get arrested for trespassing on state property without proper documentation. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:22:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Experience has shown that nothing will happen because nobody wants to spend a couple of million fixing a bridge until it collapses, and then it will be tens of millions.
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:24:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Local ghetto dirt biker get arrested for trespassing on state property without proper documentation. Gun fight ensues, dirt biker dies, railroad cops hailed as heroes for stopping a potential terrorist attack. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:35:45 PM EDT
[#14]
The busted up slope paving isn't really an immediate issue, although the erosion will be eventually. Its already undermining the cap a little. All bridges are inspected every 2 years at a minimum and some states have inspection reports publicly available online. Nothing in the pictures looks new, so they're probably already keeping track of it.
In the states I've worked, typically there's one pile under each beam at the abutments. Looks like this is the type where there's two piles with a small (kinda busted) pile cap under each and one battered pile is exposed by the erosion, but there's nothing that looks immediately alarming. I'm a certified bridge inspector, although I don't do much of it anymore. I have put my fist through steel piles that were mostly rusted away under an interstate bridge before. That was definitely a phone call to the DOT. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 4:40:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The busted up slope paving isn't really an immediate issue, although the erosion will be eventually. Its already undermining the cap a little. All bridges are inspected every 2 years at a minimum and some states have inspection reports publicly available online. Nothing in the pictures looks new, so they're probably already keeping track of it. In the states I've worked, typically there's one pile under each beam at the abutments. Looks like this is the type where there's two piles with a small (kinda busted) pile cap under each and one battered pile is exposed by the erosion, but there's nothing that looks immediately alarming. I'm a certified bridge inspector, although I don't do much of it anymore. I have put my fist through steel piles that were mostly rusted away under an interstate bridge before. That was definitely a phone call to the DOT. Agreed. I'm not a bridge inspector but I have a smidge of geotech experience. This is not a 5-alarm problem. But it could be serious, if it's ignored long enough. First, FIX THE DAMN DRAINAGE PROBLEM. This will buy the owner some time for the rest of the work. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 5:02:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Found the bridge on the state website. It was last inspected July of 2021.
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:13:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Found the bridge on the state website. It was last inspected July of 2021. Hopefully it wasn’t by the same guy who inspected the bridge on I-40 where it crosses between AR and TN.
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:21:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hopefully it wasn't by the same guy who inspected the bridge on I-40 where it crosses between AR and TN. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Found the bridge on the state website. It was last inspected July of 2021. Hopefully it wasn't by the same guy who inspected the bridge on I-40 where it crosses between AR and TN. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:22:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You sure that isn't a screen cap from fallout 4? No, happened in OKC. At another OKC bridge they thought someone was throwing rocks from the bridge at passing cars, turns out it was concrete falling from the bridge onto cars passing underneath. Local news crew stood under the bridge and you could see daylight thru it 
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:24:00 PM EDT
[#20]
The DOT of the state knows about this.
Concrete and possible slope failure can be an issue. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:28:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Myob. NEver InVite ThE MaN iNTo yOuR LIfE.
If the proper authorities dont know about this you have bigger problems. This didnt happen overnight. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:36:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Well I was gonna charge the drone up to get some 4K pictures and videos, but apparently a storm is coming with 65mph wind gusts and hail, so maybe tomorrow.
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:39:04 PM EDT
[#23]
That exposed pier needs to be under the bridge to support any load. It's relying on sky hooks and dreams of unicorns now. Hoping it all works out is a bad way to engineer structures.
If that is a pier installed for that bridge, I'm amazed it could migrate that far. If it is left over from an old bridge, there is still a question about the reasons, and why it's the only survivor. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:41:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That exposed pier needs to be under the bridge to support any load. It's relying on sky hooks and dreams of unicorns now. Hoping it all works out is a bad way to engineer structures. If that is a pier installed for that bridge, I'm amazed it could migrate that far. If it is left over from an old bridge, there is still a question about the reasons, and why it's the only survivor. Supposedly this bridge was built in 1970. Not sure if that helps date any construction techniques used. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:42:22 PM EDT
[#25]
What was the center cap in the first pic from?
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:43:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Do you want your taxes to go up?
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:52:19 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm in Texas and would to know where the hell this bridge is so I can avoid the fuck out of it
Please
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:54:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That exposed pier needs to be under the bridge to support any load. It's relying on sky hooks and dreams of unicorns now. Hoping it all works out is a bad way to engineer structures. If that is a pier installed for that bridge, I'm amazed it could migrate that far. If it is left over from an old bridge, there is still a question about the reasons, and why it's the only survivor. Incorrect. The bridge load is transferred to a grade beam/pile cap. Grade beams are common structural members that transfer loads laterally. You can clearly see the grade beam projecting beneath the bridge from the top of the pile. There is no evidence of major failure of the grade beam or pile cap. If I was going to guess, I'd say the grade beam was installed sometime after the initial bridge construction. Perhaps the bridge settled, so they decided to strengthen it with a grade beam. The pier was drilled outside the bridge footprint (much easier to do this way). The grade beam was constructed on top of the pier and connected to the bridge abutment to transfer some of the vertical load of the abutment to the pier and reduce the settlement. IOW the pier and grade beam were retrofits. That's a WAG, but it fits what we see. This is mostly an erosion problem...for now. Note the water staining on the concrete outside the dripline, and the unstained concrete beneath the bridge. Surface runoff is being directed onto the slope, and it has undermined the apron. The slope is now un-armored and erosion will accelerate. FIX THE DAMN DRAINAGE! |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:54:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, fwd to local media outlets. I bet you get popped for trespassing for being helpful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The abutment should be sitting on piles/a deep foundation. I think the broken concrete is just to prevent erosion. In theory it could be a problem, but there would have to be a whole lot of erosion first. Edit: skimmed too fast. One of the piles is actually exposed. Yes, I would call the DOT. No, fwd to local media outlets. I bet you get popped for trespassing for being helpful. "we fixed the problem" |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 6:57:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Just a little settling OP.
No homeless were harmed during this event.
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Posted: 4/12/2022 7:01:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am just a guy but....this part seems like a problem. Seems like it used to be supported by earth but now isn't. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/351202/Untitled_png-2346590.JPG Already developing undercut erosion and part of the reason for the erosion control failure |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 3:11:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Incorrect. The bridge load is transferred to a grade beam/pile cap. Grade beams are common structural members that transfer loads laterally. You can clearly see the grade beam projecting beneath the bridge from the top of the pile. There is no evidence of major failure of the grade beam or pile cap. If I was going to guess, I'd say the grade beam was installed sometime after the initial bridge construction. Perhaps the bridge settled, so they decided to strengthen it with a grade beam. The pier was drilled outside the bridge footprint (much easier to do this way). The grade beam was constructed on top of the pier and connected to the bridge abutment to transfer some of the vertical load of the abutment to the pier and reduce the settlement. IOW the pier and grade beam were retrofits. That's a WAG, but it fits what we see. This is mostly an erosion problem...for now. Note the water staining on the concrete outside the dripline, and the unstained concrete beneath the bridge. Surface runoff is being directed onto the slope, and it has undermined the apron. The slope is now un-armored and erosion will accelerate. FIX THE DAMN DRAINAGE! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That exposed pier needs to be under the bridge to support any load. It's relying on sky hooks and dreams of unicorns now. Hoping it all works out is a bad way to engineer structures. If that is a pier installed for that bridge, I'm amazed it could migrate that far. If it is left over from an old bridge, there is still a question about the reasons, and why it's the only survivor. Incorrect. The bridge load is transferred to a grade beam/pile cap. Grade beams are common structural members that transfer loads laterally. You can clearly see the grade beam projecting beneath the bridge from the top of the pile. There is no evidence of major failure of the grade beam or pile cap. If I was going to guess, I'd say the grade beam was installed sometime after the initial bridge construction. Perhaps the bridge settled, so they decided to strengthen it with a grade beam. The pier was drilled outside the bridge footprint (much easier to do this way). The grade beam was constructed on top of the pier and connected to the bridge abutment to transfer some of the vertical load of the abutment to the pier and reduce the settlement. IOW the pier and grade beam were retrofits. That's a WAG, but it fits what we see. This is mostly an erosion problem...for now. Note the water staining on the concrete outside the dripline, and the unstained concrete beneath the bridge. Surface runoff is being directed onto the slope, and it has undermined the apron. The slope is now un-armored and erosion will accelerate. FIX THE DAMN DRAINAGE! Explain the reason for the crappy shape of the top of the pier. It looks to me like it has lost engagement with something, maybe just the overlayment. How could the hole for the pier be bored at that angle if the adjacent beam was already in place? |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 3:21:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like TX and OK spend the same amount of time taking care of their bridges  Chinese Steel. 
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Posted: 4/13/2022 3:25:45 PM EDT
[#34]
erosion seems to be progressing rapidly. needs to get fixed sooner or later
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Posted: 4/13/2022 4:45:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That exposed pier needs to be under the bridge to support any load. It's relying on sky hooks and dreams of unicorns now. Hoping it all works out is a bad way to engineer structures. If that is a pier installed for that bridge, I'm amazed it could migrate that far. If it is left over from an old bridge, there is still a question about the reasons, and why it's the only survivor. The pile is connected to a bunch of his buddies via the pile cap. The fact that it is not directly under the bridge is not an issue. edit: Lou beat me. as for your other question, the contractor drives all the piles first. As noted earlier, some will have batter to give the entire group some lateral stability. Once the piles are in place they are cut off (assuming precast piles) to the proper elevation. Rebar is doweled into them and bent over as hook. The tops of all the piles are encapsulated in a single reinforced cap that supports the bridge abutment. The pile arrangement probably looks something like this:  Real life example of battered piles connected to a cap.  It does look the edge of the cap is damaged too. |
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:11:10 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:12:15 PM EDT
[#37]
MYOB
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:21:02 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 4/13/2022 5:48:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went back to see the photos and noticed the pier is shown in the first photo. It's touching the beam, I couldn't see that in the off axis photo later. Doesn't look like much of a joint. Explain the reason for the crappy shape of the top of the pier. It looks to me like it has lost engagement with something, maybe just the overlayment. How could the hole for the pier be bored at that angle if the adjacent beam was already in place? A minor correction, but an important one: these are piers, not piles. I even use the terms interchangeably, but they aren't. Piers are drilled and cast in place; piles are driven. These are drilled concrete piers. I believe these are retrofit piers and grade beam(s). The piers were drilled from above, by a drill rig parked above, and drilling over the side. It's easy to drill at a slight angle, and it might give the bridge abutment some add'l. support against sliding downhill. Then, sonotube is inserted into the hole, and a rebar cage is placed inside. Concrete is tremmied into the sonotube. Some of the rebar is left sticking up, to give the grade beam something to attach to. The grade beam is then formed up, rebar installed, and concrete is poured. Now you have a structural beam that transfers some load from the abutment to the pier. Keep in mind post construction grade beams are kind of half-assed retrofits to make up for poor initial design. |
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