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Posted: 5/10/2021 5:51:27 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 5/10/2021 6:06:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dikfer 9000 model. Quote HistoryQuoted: Dikfer 9000 model. Quoted: Getting old Give him a break. He has a hard time being original. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 7:59:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's more like 2500 meters, really hard to accurately hit anything at 3,000+ with a training round. Maybe? I've seen them fired in training fairly often so I doubt they're that expensive now. Quote HistoryQuoted: It's more like 2500 meters, really hard to accurately hit anything at 3,000+ with a training round. Maybe? I've seen them fired in training fairly often so I doubt they're that expensive now. Quoted: It's more like 2500 meters, really hard to accurately hit anything at 3,000+ with a training round. Maybe? I've seen them fired in training fairly often so I doubt they're that expensive now. Yeah, you're right...2500meters, after that it starts to get wonky... |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 9:48:06 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm trying to imagine what a hassle it must be to machine Depleted Uranium.
Flooded with lots of coolant, maybe a nitrogen atmosphere? Low RPMs? IIRC DU is like magnesium in that it'll burn in C02 atmosphere. Putting out any chips that start on fire must be fun. 
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:06:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Getting old Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dikfer 9000 model. Getting old That never gets old. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:09:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Faith loves them. Great reference, I'm surprised no one else caught it yet. :) |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:27:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 60K apiece? Hell, a JDAM doesn't cost that much. Well... I would think that is still far from the most expensive kill on the US military's books. The most expensive 120mm I’ve heard of yet is €10,000, and it’s tungsten APFSDS. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:35:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree the launching of turrets is due to setting off of the rounds inside the tanks. The self sharpening aspect is one of the most important properties for selecting DU for penetrators which I referred to in my first post here. I see pyrophoricity nowhere mentioned in the PDF. The idea that the burning of DU being a driver to launching turrets is laughable and shows a lack of understanding of basic physics. Also when you are punching holes through several inches of steel with DU or tungsten at over 5500fps, there is going to be molten steel and a massive amount of heat generated no matter what the penetrator is made of and anything flammable in its path will be ignited. The original bazooka rocket contained a steel rod inside a shaped charge, and my Uncle was taught that the shaped charge punched a hole and a combination of explosive energy and kinetic energy converted to heat melted the steel rod which then sprayed the interior of the tank, rendering the crew inert. This was during WW II. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:42:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm trying to imagine what a hassle it must be to machine Depleted Uranium. Flooded with lots of coolant, maybe a nitrogen atmosphere? Low RPMs? IIRC DU is like magnesium in that it'll burn in C02 atmosphere. Putting out any chips that start on fire must be fun. My assumption is they’re sintered or ground *shrug* I never noticed some were threaded. If anyone is in the know can shed some light on this I’ve been wondering the same thing. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:42:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never seen it or tried it myself, but guessing the rumors are somewhat true about what happens if you shoot sabot when the selector is in HEAT, MPAT or CAN. Also, has anyone ever even seen a STAFF round? It's some unicorn round that was important enough to have a spot on the selector at some point, but nobody I know has ever seen one in person. IIRC, the STAFF selection was replaced with CAN and it's been so long I don't recall if there were further developments where a 5th selection was incorporated on A1s (I think A2s have 5, but never been in one myself). HA! Seen it (Might actually have done it myself ) in a '60 while accidentally indexing HEP/Coax. We called them "Moon Shots"....lol  Can I get an "OVER! B.O.T.!"... 
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:52:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm trying to imagine what a hassle it must be to machine Depleted Uranium. Flooded with lots of coolant, maybe a nitrogen atmosphere? Low RPMs? IIRC DU is like magnesium in that it'll burn in C02 atmosphere. Putting out any chips that start on fire must be fun. iirc, during Desert Storm vehicles hit with DU rounds had to be decontaminated. Some soldiers became sick from inhaling DU dust |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 10:53:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Cool picture OP!
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Posted: 5/10/2021 11:13:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do tankers call this a "beehive" round like the artillery does? We did during the cold war. I don't know about now. The M60s fired rounds full of flechettes and the Sheridan's fired rounds full of balls. But for standardization, we called both "Beehive". |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 11:21:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ballistic computer selection You turn a handle to the selected round type. It automatically calculates super elevation based on round weight, muzzle velocity etc. Your crosshairs stay on the target but the barrel is elevated properly. Think holdover on a scope but keeping the cross hairs dead nuts on your AP. HEAT is slower than APFDS. So more elevation is added. Set the BC to HEAT and fire a Sabot. You could have a serious problem down range. Like waaaaay down range. At Graf, that got you a "cease fire, freeze, all units cease fire freeze. Round out of the impact area!". Or so I've been told, shuffling away.
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Posted: 5/10/2021 11:34:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. You don’t want to inhale it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tungsten is toxic? How? Like if you grind it and breath the dust? Yes. You don’t want to inhale it. I believe that's because its thoriated but I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 11:36:21 AM EDT
[#16]
That sounds like a definite Level Three "Oh, Shit!"
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Posted: 5/10/2021 12:45:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Tikiman001 Seems I have been summoned. Current project I'm working on is replica sabots to fill some empty cases. A little less top heavy for displaying than my real ones.  Although I'm more interested in the canister shot rounds (90mm shown below): 
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Posted: 5/10/2021 2:20:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice. Strangely nowhere in there does it talk about how DU is preferable because of its pyrophoricity which launches turrets 150' in the air  That part is classified. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 3:50:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha I understood that reference. Jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well that'll punch the second wall whether it opens or not  I understood that reference. Jpg Fucking hell, what a classic thread. And the guy kept arguing he was right!!! 
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Posted: 5/10/2021 3:56:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's more like 2500 meters, really hard to accurately hit anything at 3,000+ with a training round. Maybe? I've seen them fired in training fairly often so I doubt they're that expensive now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/kim8LZa.jpg So the "Cone" stabilized training Sabot was developed. The holes in the cone of the penetrator allow the rd to mimic ballistically a service rd out to 5000meters. at around 7000meters the air flow is interrupted by the holes in the cone, causing a Whiffle ball effect on the rd, making it unstable and it drops like a stone. This features keeps the rd "down" inside the standard Gunnery training ranges. . It's more like 2500 meters, really hard to accurately hit anything at 3,000+ with a training round. Quoted: Then his commander found out those round are something along the lines of $60,000 a piece, so he got told he couldn't fire anymore .Maybe? I've seen them fired in training fairly often so I doubt they're that expensive now. There’s no way they’re that much. We were always told service sabots were around $5k each. The can round has to be even simpler to manufacture. Even if they were, no one would care and continue using the round as needed. We cared fuck all in Afghanistan about the cost of ordnance. It did get ridiculous when you’d have dudes looking for any reason to launch an $80k Javelin, but that didn’t stop anyone from shooting what amounted to the cost of a nice house in munitions. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 4:25:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fucking hell, what a classic thread. And the guy kept arguing he was right!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well that'll punch the second wall whether it opens or not I understood that reference. Jpg Fucking hell, what a classic thread. And the guy kept arguing he was right!!! |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 5:38:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kind of like people saying a single .50BMG round will cut a man in half and/or cause him to go flying through the air. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It has been decades but I think that may be a sabot round with a tungsten penetrator. Legend has it that it punches an entry hole, travels through everything in its path, punches an exit hole possibly sucking parts of crewmen out when it leaves. I've heard that but the physics don't add up. Like the people saying that even if a .50 BMG round misses a human by several inches that the 'sonic velocity' will still kill the target, they 'Heard it from a Military Gunner'. Nope. On my 'Independence Day Shoots' I demonstrated that with a water melon with a target 1" away. Hit target Bullseye, watermelon was fine. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 5:49:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems I have been summoned. Current project I'm working on is replica sabots to fill some empty cases. A little less top heavy for displaying than my real ones. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/219100/16201740955847351807702313133446-1929796.jpg Although I'm more interested in the canister shot rounds (90mm shown below): https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/219100/20210413_114736-1925181.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Tikiman001 Seems I have been summoned. Current project I'm working on is replica sabots to fill some empty cases. A little less top heavy for displaying than my real ones. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/219100/16201740955847351807702313133446-1929796.jpg Although I'm more interested in the canister shot rounds (90mm shown below): https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/219100/20210413_114736-1925181.jpg Great Project. And since this IS GD, I wouldn't know of anyone 'Brave Enough'. Well, maybe some weird chick? |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 5:59:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like the people saying that even if a .50 BMG round misses a human by several inches that the 'sonic velocity' will still kill the target, they 'Heard it from a Military Gunner'. Nope. On my 'Independence Day Shoots' I demonstrated that with a water melon with a target 1" away. Hit target Bullseye, watermelon was fine.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wideopenspaces.com/a-missed-shot-with-a-50-bmg-still-kills-the-deer-you-wont-believe-how/amp/ |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 6:04:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sabots don't like the rifling in tube artillery. I'm sure if we were motivated enough someone could figure out a massively upsized slap round |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 6:46:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryWell...that’s the damndest thing I’ll see today. As someone who was in the military, who used the M2 frequently, and who thought the ‘near miss kill’ was a bullshit myth, I am amazed. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 7:03:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Best job I ever had
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Posted: 5/10/2021 7:20:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well...that’s the damndest thing I’ll see today. As someone who was in the military, who used the M2 frequently, and who thought the ‘near miss kill’ was a bullshit myth, I am amazed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Well...that’s the damndest thing I’ll see today. As someone who was in the military, who used the M2 frequently, and who thought the ‘near miss kill’ was a bullshit myth, I am amazed. Look close. He shot that deer in the head. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 7:28:33 PM EDT
[#29]
How about we go smaller...
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Posted: 5/10/2021 8:08:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure if we were motivated enough someone could figure out a massively upsized slap round There's this guy in Kentucky that is all about ballistics. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 8:42:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well...that’s the damndest thing I’ll see today. As someone who was in the military, who used the M2 frequently, and who thought the ‘near miss kill’ was a bullshit myth, I am amazed. JFC, can people try and exercise just a little critical thinking in this thread? Good God. If this were true, every paper target shot by a 50 would be obliterated into dust. Instead it makes nice clean holes .5" in diameter. Think a little. |
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Posted: 5/10/2021 8:43:50 PM EDT
[#32]
No matter how cool it looks, it’s even more funner to shoot!
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Posted: 5/11/2021 8:34:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Getting old Yep. Really stupid. What are we, 9? |
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Posted: 5/11/2021 8:38:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those that don't know, we use depleted uranium partially because it's stupid dense and makes a fantastic penetrator but also because uranium is a pyrophoric metal. Pyrophoric metals combust spontaneously in contact with air. DU has a self-ignition temp of around 600-700 degrees which it easily reaches from the impact and the subsequent penetration of heavy armor. Meaning, that after it's penetrated the first wall of the target the DU penetrator itself is then in a highly particulated phase and it catches fire spontaneously and vigorously which creates a ball of fire inside the target that's something on the order of 5000deg F along with the concomitant pressure increase and vaporizing of flesh and then the tank turret launches 150 feet into the air. So our penetrators don't just poke holes in targets and kill the occupants with simple spall, they blow the absolute shit out of them and leave the crews looking like overcooked bacon. I can’t be the only person that wants to see a hi speed camera from inside a tank when that happens. |
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Posted: 5/11/2021 8:38:40 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The most expensive 120mm I’ve heard of yet is €10,000, and it’s tungsten APFSDS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 60K apiece? Hell, a JDAM doesn't cost that much. Well... I would think that is still far from the most expensive kill on the US military's books. The most expensive 120mm I’ve heard of yet is €10,000, and it’s tungsten APFSDS. I probably have the figure wrong, but that's what was in my head at the time. |
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