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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:14:29 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:14:42 AM EDT
[#2]
You gotta add the magic words "No Response is a Response" to the email. Then save the email in case you need to remind the asshole in front of others.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:15:09 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:17:49 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:17:51 AM EDT
[#5]
If that's the worst part of your week or month, then things are probably going pretty well.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:20:55 AM EDT
[#6]
I should add that this guy is the type who can't collaborate with anyone. What he says goes, and often he screws it up without repercussion.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:22:12 AM EDT
[#7]
What is an EHS manager?
Why are you locking out equipment? |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:23:46 AM EDT
[#8]
I would have replied. LO/TO is a safety device for the workers. It isn’t an electrical device. He is wrong. You are in charge of the safety program, ram your foot in his asshole till he likes it. It will be your fault if a worker is injured or killed, not the electrical guy.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:26:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Lol, that sounds like a problem free day in my world.
I'm about to fire my second in command. That is going to be interesting. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:27:47 AM EDT
[#10]
I know your pain.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:29:02 AM EDT
[#11]
The simple way around this is to put all the stakeholders and potentially interested parties on the email chain from the start. Esp. if you have a lot of work from home going on.
Sometimes email isn't good enough. Sometimes you have to make a call or stop by the office. Especially when you're spending money for something somebody else will be using/working on. You should have had his buy-in, getting it was your responsibility. You should be pissed at yourself, not him. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:31:08 AM EDT
[#12]
LOTO always starts with the product and it's design and manufacturer recomendations or requirements.
So who is this engineer in the LOTO procedures? Where does he go on the chart? Is he a part of the team that makes a LOTO procedure up and put it ''on paper?" Is his name on the last LOTO procedure for this piece of equipment? Is there a LOTO procedure for this equipment? There is a VERY specific list of rules and regulations to follow, where does he stand on it? I just had to do this shit a couple weeks ago and test out. I will say that ANY changes to a written procedure has to be approved and signed off on. The manufacturer LOTO rules tends to come first though. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:42:39 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:45:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would have replied. LO/TO is a safety device for the workers. It isn’t an electrical device. He is wrong. You are in charge of the safety program, ram your foot in his asshole till he likes it. It will be your fault if a worker is injured or killed, not the electrical guy. Yep. And it's not up to the electrician. It's up to the manufacturer and their certifier. Let an electrician do what they want while ignoring those and you're going to get bit (at least if the electrician isn't a good one). |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:48:06 AM EDT
[#15]
My biggest business pet peeve is not answering an email. It usually takes less than 30 seconds to form a polite response.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:52:50 AM EDT
[#16]
You should order a bunch of software for the IT guy and then post another thread.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:54:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryI would strongly discourage that strategy in matters of LOTO. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:58:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is an EHS manager? Why are you locking out equipment? Environment & Health Safety. A busy body. We have EHS managers where I work. They’re pretty much useless. Sorry, OP. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 6:58:44 AM EDT
[#19]
No idea what an EHS manager is but according to the engineering manager’s eventual response is that it sounds like LO/TO isn’t your responsibility.
Op, are you staying in your lane? EDIT: I see above response. I suspect you’re the guy to make reports, documentation and make suggestions. I’m guessing you went outside your pay grade by taking the initiative to implement this. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:00:55 AM EDT
[#20]
I see the problem here. You have too many "managers" to ever get shit done.
I work at a small company and wear all of those hats so I just have to confer with myself. 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:07:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Environment & Health Safety. A busy body. We have EHS managers where I work. They’re pretty much useless. Sorry, OP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What is an EHS manager? Why are you locking out equipment? Environment & Health Safety. A busy body. We have EHS managers where I work. They’re pretty much useless. Sorry, OP. Yes and no. I work in r&d for process and equipment development. EHS here is basically God. They can be a bit nit picky, but if you take the time to work with them, understand their concerns, and address them in a reasonable manner, they'll work with you to come up with a solution that is both safe and effective. I work with and design things that can kill, maim, or burn. I've had things I've designed injure people in a way I never thought possible. Safety isn't a joke, and I never want to hear something i designed seriously hurt someone. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:22:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You gotta add the magic words "No Response is a Response" to the email. Then save the email in case you need to remind the asshole in front of others. That's my method with a respond by x date, or the lack of response indicates you concur. Saved hassles many times over. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:23:56 AM EDT
[#23]
TL;DR
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:25:50 AM EDT
[#24]
I’ll pray for a peaceful resolution to your workplace conundrum.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:26:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Surprising where I work the safety guy has the final say. Even over the engineers
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:33:36 AM EDT
[#26]
I’m pretty sure we just use thick zip ties with a certain tag that has signatures of who is locking it out. No actual locks are used on equipment
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:36:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Just don't, you know, do anything drastic.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:37:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Surprising where I work the safety guy has the final say. Even over the engineers On site, the PIC is in charge. Anyone can stop the work if they think there is a safety issue, it then needs to go up the chain. LOTO procedures are a PITA unless you are a one or two man operation but they do exist for a reason. They also keep random asshole supervisors and managers from putting their tarded or ignorant hands into the mix and creating dangerous situations. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:37:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Red flag!
Red flag! 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:44:15 AM EDT
[#30]
Our EHS manager is a fucking douche. I hope you get your cool locks though.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 7:54:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:No idea what an EHS manager is but according to the engineering manager’s eventual response is that it sounds like LO/TO isn’t your responsibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:No idea what an EHS manager is but according to the engineering manager’s eventual response is that it sounds like LO/TO isn’t your responsibility. LOTO is absolutely an EHS manager's responsibility. Quoted: I’m pretty sure we just use thick zip ties with a certain tag that has signatures of who is locking it out. No actual locks are used on equipment I've had to do that at some places, but it's pretty archaic. I was trying to get a conveyor belt locked-out at a Korean power plant. Even w/ my perfect acting out of locking the breaker, the operated acted like he didn't know what I meant. So, I threw the breaker anyway, put my lock on it, and had my helper stand there until I returned. Right after this (putting my lock on) the operator opens a drawer w/ red tags and zipties 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:01:48 AM EDT
[#32]
what's an EHS manager?
UNODIR, I'm assuming it's this guy: 
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:03:28 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I should add that this guy is the type who can't collaborate with anyone. What he says goes, and often he screws it up without repercussion. The manufacturer for each device specified the devices right? I'd have dropped that in the email for sure. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:03:45 AM EDT
[#34]
If I started a thread every time a coworker pissed me off, I would need my own forum.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:04:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's an EHS manager? UNODIR, I'm assuming it's this guy: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/40/b0/9a/40b09a01567143dbe683a66a304b2dbb.jpg Environmental Health and Safety. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:07:17 AM EDT
[#36]
I detect a large presence of desk warriors in this thread.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:10:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would have replied. LO/TO is a safety device for the workers. It isn’t an electrical device. He is wrong. You are in charge of the safety program, ram your foot in his asshole till he likes it. It will be your fault if a worker is injured or killed, not the electrical guy. Yes, exactly. OP, if you are in the right follow the advice above. Be polite in all correspondence but do the right thing. LO/TO is serious business. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:13:18 AM EDT
[#38]
He's better than thieves I knew.
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:16:34 AM EDT
[#39]
EHS here too OP. I feel your pain.
Fortunately I have a great relationship with engineering. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:20:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My biggest business pet peeve is not answering an email. It usually takes less than 30 seconds to form a polite response. You aren’t entitled to my 30 seconds. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:20:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: I replied something along the lines of "I never implied I was. Hence why I emailed you about it months ago." I would've been extra petty and attached a screenshot of the original email  |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:20:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The manufacturer for each device specified the devices right? I'd have dropped that in the email for sure. Well he tasked the electrical guy with determining what devices to use, and I'm sure he'll come up with the same answers. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:20:39 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our EHS manager is a fucking douche. I hope you get your cool locks though. EHS = hold up production |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:20:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would've been extra petty and attached a screenshot of the original email It was in the chain, down below. I referenced it being below. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:20:58 AM EDT
[#45]
lots of sexual frustration in your post
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:21:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EHS = hold up production Correct. And I used to be in Quality Assurance, so I'm no stranger to being hated. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:22:20 AM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:22:39 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: I'm an EHS manager. Months ago, looked into getting more permanent and robust lockout/tagout devices for a large breaker panel. I did the research, found the right devices for each type of breaker (as recommended by the manufacturer of each of the switches), and sent an email to engineering manager for confirmation. Never got a response. Purchasing manager ordered them regardless. Parts came in. I talked to electrical install guy about putting them on. He says "yeah no problem, just email engineering manager because he prioritizes my projects". So I did. Engineering manager replies "electrical installation guy should decide what devices we need. you're not an electrician." And he added the plant manager and assistant plant manager to the reply. I replied something along the lines of "I never implied I was. Hence why I emailed you about it months ago." I'm perturbed. That's all. I sell these kits, what company do you typically order from? |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:28:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You aren’t entitled to my 30 seconds. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My biggest business pet peeve is not answering an email. It usually takes less than 30 seconds to form a polite response. You aren’t entitled to my 30 seconds. he is if it's your goddamn job to respond to those emails because they're in your lane. |
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Posted: 9/30/2021 8:29:39 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Environment & Health Safety. A busy body. We have EHS managers where I work. They’re pretty much useless. Sorry, OP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What is an EHS manager? Why are you locking out equipment? Environment & Health Safety. A busy body. We have EHS managers where I work. They’re pretty much useless. Sorry, OP. Ours defers to me on electrical safety. I spec equipment based on manufacturer, OSHA, common industry practice, and the practices of our major clients to conform with there on site procedures. not much has changed in 12 years, I have the procedures, SOW, JHAs written on file. its not rocket science and we haven't had a reportable incident related to LOTO in .... 12 years. |
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