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Posted: 9/27/2022 11:47:22 PM EDT
[#1]
For DIYers and women who watched a "remodel" on HGTV and now think they're electricians.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 11:52:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Backstabbing is for 14 AWG, real electricians always use 12 AWG.
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Posted: 9/27/2022 11:53:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For DIYers and women who watched a "remodel" on HGTV and now think they're electricians. That must be me because I have no idea what's going on in here. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 11:57:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That must be me because I have no idea what's going on in here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For DIYers and women who watched a "remodel" on HGTV and now think they're electricians. That must be me because I have no idea what's going on in here.  The picture on the right, notice the four holes. Those allow wire to be "backstabbed" into the receptacle. Most electricians don't like to do that, as it isn't as secure as looping the wire and clamping it with the screw from the side, especially with heat cycling. |
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Posted: 9/27/2022 11:58:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Wagos are garbage. It's like the shitty sharkbite of the electrical world.
My master electrician BIL has a personal vendetta out for them, he takes great pleasure in cutting off and disposing of every one he finds. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:00:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wagos are garbage. It's like the shitty sharkbite of the electrical world. My master electrician BIL has a personal vendetta out for them, he takes great pleasure in cutting off and disposing of every one he finds. Let me guess, you're a big fan of wire nuts right? We've been using Wago spring connectors in industrial automation for decades now, they're awesome. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:01:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Am slowly replacing all the back stabbed outlets in this house.
Always problems with them. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:01:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Wago’s strength is in production labor jobs, like a multi family prevailing wage scale job, where you can fabricate receptacles with “tails” offsite… I don’t condone them in other applications you guys are referencing
Eta Also specifications typically require screw type connections |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:03:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Our house was built very well in the seventies and is like a bunker compared to some of the new stuff on the market today. Except for that. Caused lots of problems. Got it all done right and love our house now.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:04:03 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm no electrician, just a hard-headed home owner, but I've used wago connectors on a few things, but only circuits for lights that would mostly likely never see more than 7 amps. But I hate "backstabbed" outlets, I prefer to wrap around the side terminals.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:05:16 AM EDT
[#11]
FUCK wagos and backstabbing...Jesus it takes just a few seconds to do it right...This world is going to shit... ASAP...
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Posted: 9/28/2022 12:12:12 AM EDT
[#12]
I feel like backstabbing is for folks either afraid of 120v or don’t know what breaker to flip.
Or laziness. I’m not an electrician but I’ve backstabbed some outlets that I was a meh about. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:22:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Wago's strength is in production labor jobs, like a multi family prevailing wage scale job, where you can fabricate receptacles with "tails" offsite I don't condone them in other applications you guys are referencing Eta Also specifications typically require screw type connections Seems like an emotional response, and an illogical one at that. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:27:56 AM EDT
[#14]
I use Wago lever nuts all the time instead of wire nuts. And am an electrician.
The push in ones are gay though. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:37:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Your whole goal here is to prevent a house fire.
Although one would thing that short circuits would cause the most fires, that's actually not true. Circuit breakers will catch short circuits. The real danger is poor connections when there is high current flowing for a long period of time. If it's a weak connection, it'll heat up and become oxidized, making it an even worse connection until a fire starts. So whenever you're installing an outlet, I'd recommend not backstabbing. Carefully strip off the insulation, carefully bend the end of the wire clockwise, and tighten down the screws with a decent amount of force and make sure you're only screwing down onto copper, not any of the insulation. If using wire nuts, wrap them and the wires together with electrical tape and then carefully place them back in the receptacle. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:39:15 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I use Wago lever nuts all the time instead of wire nuts. And am an electrician. The push in ones are gay though. This. Wago lever nuts are way better than I thought they'd be. I've had great results on machinery and I'm perfectly comfortable using them anywhere I'd use a wire nut. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:45:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.electrical-forensics.com/Receptacles/F10-052/LevitonDuplexReceptacle-LG.jpg The picture on the right, notice the four holes. Those allow wire to be "backstabbed" into the receptacle. Most electricians don't like to do that, as it isn't as secure as looping the wire and clamping it with the screw from the side, especially with heat cycling. Im no electrician, but I do work on minor electrical shit for work. Never backstabbed an outlet. Plus I like to wrap it in electrical tape for good measure. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:48:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Agreed secured with screws is better, but don't be like the debags who wired my house back in the 80s. Ours is all conduit with metal boxes and they didn't tape a single outlet.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 1:50:00 AM EDT
[#19]
The concept of back stabbing (I.E. pushing a solid wire into a appropriately made "push wiring" connector) isn't bad.
Lots of commercial/industrial wiring is done with similar connections. It goes to garbage is the receiving part isn't high quality, and the person installing it fucks up at all and nicks a wire while stripping it. Wire nuts are hot garbage too, I've seen more than one melted to shit/on fire. Insulation retaining double crimp connectors are the gold standard for aviation for a reason. There's a reason that crimped on ferrules are used under most screw wiring connectors in critical applications too. WAGO lever products seem like a good option, so far, to me. I do like to tape them lightly. Don't ever buy cheap switches or recepticals. They suck. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 2:07:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Wago lever nuts are way better than I thought they'd be. I've had great results on machinery and I'm perfectly comfortable using them anywhere I'd use a wire nut.  Yessir. Agreed! |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 2:15:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wagos are garbage. It's like the shitty sharkbite of the electrical world. My master electrician BIL has a personal vendetta out for them, he takes great pleasure in cutting off and disposing of every one he finds. your like the boomer grandpa who cant use a smart phone lol.... technology always ends up hurting someones feelings |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 2:21:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So they're cool for multi-fam units but not single fam units? Seems like an emotional response, and an illogical one at that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wago's strength is in production labor jobs, like a multi family prevailing wage scale job, where you can fabricate receptacles with "tails" offsite I don't condone them in other applications you guys are referencing Eta Also specifications typically require screw type connections Seems like an emotional response, and an illogical one at that. I didn’t say “they’re not cool” for residential, but maybe you don’t understand what I said and construe that as emotional or illogical? In either case (multi family or resi) they are code compliant… It’s then up to the contractor or specifying engineer to allow or disallowed them. The point I was making is that it can create a labor savings on production jobs (big jobs) whereas it might not be worth it on a single residential. A prevailing wage scale job would be a fine example as you mitigate onsite labor for offsite prefabrication |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 5:32:32 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your whole goal here is to prevent a house fire. Although one would thing that short circuits would cause the most fires, that's actually not true. Circuit breakers will catch short circuits. The real danger is poor connections when there is high current flowing for a long period of time. If it's a weak connection, it'll heat up and become oxidized, making it an even worse connection until a fire starts. So whenever you're installing an outlet, I'd recommend not backstabbing. Carefully strip off the insulation, carefully bend the end of the wire clockwise, and tighten down the screws with a decent amount of force and make sure you're only screwing down onto copper, not any of the insulation. If using wire nuts, wrap them and the wires together with electrical tape and then carefully place them back in the receptacle. All of this except for wrapping wirenuts with tape. Don't do that, not necessary |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 5:59:54 AM EDT
[#24]
I never backstab, if I replace an outlet I always use the post.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:06:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Wago lever nuts are way better than I thought they'd be. I've had great results on machinery and I'm perfectly comfortable using them anywhere I'd use a wire nut. The first place I used them in ernest was when I was subcontracted at a Walmart returns distribution center. They were used exclusively throughout the conveyor lines. 'Weirdest' thing I've had to do for 120V receptacles was terminate with ferrule crimps spec'd by the engineers at a manufacturing facility. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:13:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Its absolutely acceptable, just not preferred by many folks...
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:14:43 AM EDT
[#27]
I've seen many loose connections with back stabbed outlets, never seen an issue with wagos though.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:20:04 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed secured with screws is better, but don't be like the debags who wired my house back in the 80s. Ours is all conduit with metal boxes and they didn't tape a single outlet. Electrical tape has no place being wrapped around a wiring device or wirenut... |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:20:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Not an electrician but I always avoided them until I had to try to release a wire from one. It was not easy, so it made me more comfortable using it.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:22:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wagos are garbage. It's like the shitty sharkbite of the electrical world. My master electrician BIL has a personal vendetta out for them, he takes great pleasure in cutting off and disposing of every one he finds. Your BIL and i could be bros. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:31:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Electrical tape has no place being wrapped around a wiring device or wirenut... Outlet installed in metal cut-in box that uses Madison straps? |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:47:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Outlet installed in metal cut-in box that uses Madison straps? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Electrical tape has no place being wrapped around a wiring device or wirenut... Outlet installed in metal cut-in box that uses Madison straps? This. There's about a 1/64" clearance and good luck removing the receptacle w/out shorting |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 6:55:25 AM EDT
[#33]
The backstab ones that screw down work (right side). The crappy single fin/tab ones suck (left).
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Posted: 9/28/2022 7:00:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Its dumb and should be avoided.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 7:53:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me guess, you're a big fan of wire nuts right? We've been using Wago spring connectors in industrial automation for decades now, they're awesome. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wagos are garbage. It's like the shitty sharkbite of the electrical world. My master electrician BIL has a personal vendetta out for them, he takes great pleasure in cutting off and disposing of every one he finds. Let me guess, you're a big fan of wire nuts right? We've been using Wago spring connectors in industrial automation for decades now, they're awesome. It must be true!!!!! 
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Posted: 9/28/2022 7:56:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our house was built very well in the seventies and is like a bunker compared to some of the new stuff on the market today. Except for that. Caused lots of problems. Got it all done right and love our house now. Many, many failures because of assholes who did that. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 8:09:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Fuck backstabbing and anyone who does it.
My previous house was built in 1986, every outlet and switch was done that way. Two of them had evidence of arcing and one of those actually worked a wire completely loose. I ended up replacing every outlet and every switch, screwing down the wires, and viola, no more electrical problems. I just bought a house built in 2017, haven't dug into wiring yet but I really hope they did it the right way. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 8:10:10 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not an electrician but I always avoided them until I had to try to release a wire from one. It was not easy, so it made me more comfortable using it. This, I never use the back stab, always connection using the screws. I'm not an electrician. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 8:13:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wagos are garbage. It's like the shitty sharkbite of the electrical world. My master electrician BIL has a personal vendetta out for them, he takes great pleasure in cutting off and disposing of every one he finds. Progress is scary. Does he replace every screw with a flat as well? |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 8:14:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Im no electrician, but I do work on minor electrical shit for work. Never backstabbed an outlet. Plus I like to wrap it in electrical tape for good measure. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.electrical-forensics.com/Receptacles/F10-052/LevitonDuplexReceptacle-LG.jpg The picture on the right, notice the four holes. Those allow wire to be "backstabbed" into the receptacle. Most electricians don't like to do that, as it isn't as secure as looping the wire and clamping it with the screw from the side, especially with heat cycling. Im no electrician, but I do work on minor electrical shit for work. Never backstabbed an outlet. Plus I like to wrap it in electrical tape for good measure. The tape is totally unnecessary and pisses anyone off that has to work after you. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 8:16:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your BIL and i could be bros. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wagos are garbage. It's like the shitty sharkbite of the electrical world. My master electrician BIL has a personal vendetta out for them, he takes great pleasure in cutting off and disposing of every one he finds. Your BIL and i could be bros. And you'd both be wrong. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:18:22 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm just an old rookie that can't afford to hire out everything to professionals.
My limited experience on failures I've had to deal with and the same results found by friends. Problem was power drop or no power in a room traced to a failed connection at the outlet in the other room. Always at the looped post not the push in connection.  I guess that's not the norm. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:20:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Outlets no because manufacturers do the minimum
Wagos sure because they are better Lever lock wagos FTFW |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:20:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Backstabbing is for 14 AWG, real electricians always use 12 AWG. Yep. Use 12 ga or go home. 
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:24:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Not an electrician but I dont backstab . I do use Wago LEVER NUTS theyre not the same concept as back stabbing. I dont use the 3M connectors which are just a backstab connector. I've never felt real comfortable with wire nuts on me than 3 wires.
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:28:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Backstabs are awesome; they last WAAAYY longer than the receptacles themselves.
 /heavy sarcasm. Found this in a friend's place that they recently purchased. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:31:07 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Electrical tape has no place being wrapped around a wiring device or wirenut... Out here electrical tape around a wire nut on your motor leads is basically a requirement. I've never seen a single electrician not do it. A wrap of tape around a receptacle to cover the terminals is pretty common too. |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:31:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. There's about a 1/64" clearance and good luck removing the receptacle w/out shorting Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Electrical tape has no place being wrapped around a wiring device or wirenut... Outlet installed in metal cut-in box that uses Madison straps? This. There's about a 1/64" clearance and good luck removing the receptacle w/out shorting Always called those battleships, never heard the term madison strap. If working on an energized device in a metal cut-in box, then wrapping would have some potential benefit. GFCI and similar sizes receptacles more-so than regular duplex type stuff. Not much argument there, but still not absolutely needed... ...have always used needlenose to bend the battleships till damn-near flat with the inside of the box so-as-to negate that issue |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:41:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The backstab ones that screw down work (right side). The crappy single fin/tab ones suck (left). The left one is a residential grade receptacle. Wire can be backstabbed or side-wired via the screws. The right one is a commercial or possibly a spec grade receptacle. It doesn't have backstab provisions but is side-wired with an internal clamping plate. Notice the internal contacts in each device. The resi device has two contact surfaces while the higher quality device has three. The clamping/ squeezing force is much better in the spec grade device too. Its also self-grounding... ...ironically, a plug makes connection with the internal contact surfaces the same way a wire is backstabbed in a resi device |
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Posted: 9/28/2022 9:43:35 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...ironically, a plug makes connection with the internal contact surfaces the same way a wire is backstabbed in a resi device Which is why I hardwire everything with Wagos wrapped in electrical tape |
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