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Posted: 9/8/2021 5:45:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Now, be careful here ARFCOM Crew..... have some tissues handy.... there might be a little dust in the room.....
We are bringing back 1x1.5" "Space Shuttle Tiles" for a limited time only.    More weapons bay work....    Rear fuselage contouring.... Cut to height  Cut contours to match sides....    Cockpit definition... 
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Posted: 9/8/2021 5:49:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Now, be careful here ARFCOM Crew..... have some tissues handy.... there might be a little dust in the room..... We are bringing back 1x1.5" "Space Shuttle Tiles" for a limited time only. https://i.imgur.com/tlGfYwg.jpg https://i.imgur.com/rOZlaH5.jpg More weapons bay work.... https://i.imgur.com/xX24N0n.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ssVbiK6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OTQkRg3.jpg Rear fuselage contouring.... Cut to height https://i.imgur.com/MEowKcp.jpg Cut contours to match sides.... https://i.imgur.com/WpbtCXd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IYe4RNa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ITcQVVP.jpg Cockpit definition... https://i.imgur.com/nzm464c.jpg  |
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Posted: 9/8/2021 6:10:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Tiles, leaves, & rivets... the bane of a freshman art student's existence. Discontents get it so bad all they can dream of is tiling riveted leaves...
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Posted: 9/8/2021 6:24:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Now, be careful here ARFCOM Crew..... have some tissues handy.... there might be a little dust in the room..... We are bringing back 1x1.5" "Space Shuttle Tiles" for a limited time only. https://i.imgur.com/tlGfYwg.jpg https://i.imgur.com/rOZlaH5.jpg More weapons bay work.... https://i.imgur.com/xX24N0n.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ssVbiK6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OTQkRg3.jpg Rear fuselage contouring.... Cut to height https://i.imgur.com/MEowKcp.jpg Cut contours to match sides.... https://i.imgur.com/WpbtCXd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IYe4RNa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ITcQVVP.jpg Cockpit definition... https://i.imgur.com/nzm464c.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/8/2021 6:29:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Tiles, leaves, & rivets... the bane of a freshman art student's existence. Discontents get it so bad all they can dream of is tiling riveted leaves...  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 9/8/2021 6:33:58 PM EDT
[#6]
I love these threads. Rated Epic.
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Posted: 9/8/2021 6:58:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Tiles, leaves, & rivets... the bane of a freshman art student's existence. Discontents get it so bad all they can dream of is tiling riveted leaves... |
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Posted: 9/8/2021 9:19:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryPaintlander: There can be only one! |
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Posted: 9/8/2021 10:18:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Where's Snoopy?
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Posted: 9/8/2021 10:30:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By widowed2012: Where's Snoopy? Give us time. 
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Posted: 9/9/2021 12:15:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Give us time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By widowed2012: Where's Snoopy? Give us time.  Snoopy has a TILED ROOF!
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Posted: 9/9/2021 12:02:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Update 9/9
Good News! Our wing seems to be close to the right size. We are going to start assembling our second wing to match.  We are finishing up the contours at the aft section of the fuselage.  Happy little trees are appearing on our mural.....these will behind the hangar and not visible.  
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Posted: 9/9/2021 12:26:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Update 9/9 -snip- Happy little trees are appearing on our mural.....these will behind the hangar and not visible. https://i.imgur.com/4BH3s80.jpg https://i.imgur.com/R9KmSoL.jpg But in 25 years when they have to take it down, they'll be impressed with the dedication and attention to detail.
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Posted: 9/9/2021 12:48:56 PM EDT
[#14]
We found out that our original CAD definition is lacking a bit in some places....this happened when students last year were adding a "skin" to the drawing. We apparently didn't get the whole plane.
We are missing from the black line back. Not entirely a surprise. The pencil lines are out frames in those areas. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2021 2:21:07 PM EDT
[#15]
VERY cool! Great what you are doing for those kids.
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Posted: 9/9/2021 2:43:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: We found out that our original CAD definition is lacking a bit in some places....this happened when students last year were adding a "skin" to the drawing. We apparently didn't get the whole plane. We are missing from the black line back. Not entirely a surprise. The pencil lines are out frames in those areas. https://i.imgur.com/A4XAo3X.jpg Does that mean you need to cut another section or two of frames to complete the plane? The black line is what needs to be added or where your current scale final frame piece is? That seems like a long way but also looks like just engine trim so not sure how far that is in scale feet to make good. |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 2:45:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Update 9/9 Good News! Our wing seems to be close to the right size. We are going to start assembling our second wing to match. https://i.imgur.com/zE7VFMX.jpg We are finishing up the contours at the aft section of the fuselage. https://i.imgur.com/u15TNBt.jpg Happy little trees are appearing on our mural.....these will behind the hangar and not visible. https://i.imgur.com/4BH3s80.jpg https://i.imgur.com/R9KmSoL.jpg I kind of dig the digicam clouds.  |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 2:49:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: Does that mean you need to cut another section or two of frames to complete the plane? The black line is what needs to be added or where your current scale final frame piece is? That seems like a long way but also looks like just engine trim so not sure how far that is in scale feet to make good. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By guns762: We found out that our original CAD definition is lacking a bit in some places....this happened when students last year were adding a "skin" to the drawing. We apparently didn't get the whole plane. We are missing from the black line back. Not entirely a surprise. The pencil lines are out frames in those areas. https://i.imgur.com/A4XAo3X.jpg Does that mean you need to cut another section or two of frames to complete the plane? The black line is what needs to be added or where your current scale final frame piece is? That seems like a long way but also looks like just engine trim so not sure how far that is in scale feet to make good. Maybe? The black line is currently where our last frame is....the end of our fuselage as it sits. We need to add everything below the line. Most of it will be engine cowlings and the vectoring pieces. |
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Posted: 9/9/2021 3:42:17 PM EDT
[#19]
We are back tracking a bit around the weapons bays. There is some discussion on how many/all of the bays should open? If so, we need to remake some of the areas to support the interior walls of the bays.
 The interior walls slat to the inside. We were building them as being square. They are not. That slant allows space for the side weapons bays.   Painting the floor of the hangar. He's using his cell phone as a light. We don't have a light to use in there. 
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Posted: 9/9/2021 4:02:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: We are back tracking a bit around the weapons bays. There is some discussion on how many/all of the bays should open? If so, we need to remake some of the areas to support the interior walls of the bays. https://i.imgur.com/3v9eWAL.jpg The interior walls slat to the inside. We were building them as being square. They are not. That slant allows space for the side weapons bays. https://i.imgur.com/Yddchop.jpg https://i.imgur.com/2VVarxr.jpg Painting the floor of the hangar. He's using his cell phone as a light. We don't have a light to use in there. https://i.imgur.com/24nMVuX.jpg That hanger needs a floor buffer!
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Posted: 9/10/2021 9:42:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Update 9/10
Frantic Friday edition. 35min classes. You have got to love Seniors. They quickly figured out that they couldn't just lay down tiles. They designated a single Senior to cut tiles, snapped lines after having to pull down a row already placed by earlier classes, and came up with a system to put them down.  This is starting to have similarities to the White House in the way the students are latching on to it. Weird, but good. 
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Posted: 9/10/2021 9:51:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: +$200.00 10 2x4s, 1 1/2" chipboard plywood, 1/2" all thread, 1/2" nuts and washers __________________________________________________ = $587.00 + $200 for 5 1/48 scale model aircraft - Spitfire, F-14, F-4, F-22, ME-109 ____________________________________________________ = Total as of 8/27/21 $787.00 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By guns762: Update 5/6 1st delivery of plywood showed up this morning. Three sheets of 1/2" 4x8 total $196.77 So I can keep track of the costs for people interested...... Total cost as of 5/6/21 $196.77 Update 8/23 Total cost as of 5/6/21 $196.77 + $94.00 for 2x6, 2x2s and 1x2s _______________________________ Total spent so far $290.00 + 97.00 for two gallons of paint, rollers, brushes, tape, mask tape, rolling trays _________________________________________ Total cost as of 8/25/21 = $387.00 +$200.00 10 2x4s, 1 1/2" chipboard plywood, 1/2" all thread, 1/2" nuts and washers __________________________________________________ = $587.00 + $200 for 5 1/48 scale model aircraft - Spitfire, F-14, F-4, F-22, ME-109 ____________________________________________________ = Total as of 8/27/21 $787.00 + $65.00 for two gallons of blue paint _______________________________ = $852.00 total as of 9/10/21 |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 10:08:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Guns,
Do you guys have any local town parades? Ever thought of putting some of the art work in there? Maybe a sparkly unicorn and baby pulling a stage coach??? Just in case there is anyone left in town who doesn't know what you do. |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 10:40:50 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: Guns, Do you guys have any local town parades? Ever thought of putting some of the art work in there? Maybe a sparkly unicorn and baby pulling a stage coach??? Just in case there is anyone left in town who doesn't know what you do.  That sounds suspiciously like stressful work, moving fragile pieces without getting broken . |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 10:49:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Update continued:
We added some blending contours to the leading edge of the wing/fuselage transition.  My CAD team leader should be back today from quarantine, and tells me he is going to tackle the remainder of our aft fuselage that is missing.  Students have been using the 1/48th scale model to figure out where the canopy needs to be. They are working to define the edge of that space with lath.  Interior olive green on the walls is done. We will paint the ceiling of the hangar white, and finish up the gray on the floor today.  |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 2:51:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: That sounds suspiciously like stressful work, moving fragile pieces without getting broken . Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By raffi383: Guns, Do you guys have any local town parades? Ever thought of putting some of the art work in there? Maybe a sparkly unicorn and baby pulling a stage coach??? Just in case there is anyone left in town who doesn't know what you do. That sounds suspiciously like stressful work, moving fragile pieces without getting broken . |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 5:50:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Update continued: We added some blending contours to the leading edge of the wing/fuselage transition. https://i.imgur.com/wAID0BW.jpg My CAD team leader should be back today from quarantine, and tells me he is going to tackle the remainder of our aft fuselage that is missing. https://i.imgur.com/zS3Npch.jpg Students have been using the 1/48th scale model to figure out where the canopy needs to be. They are working to define the edge of that space with lath. https://i.imgur.com/xza6BJz.jpg Interior olive green on the walls is done. We will paint the ceiling of the hangar white, and finish up the gray on the floor today. https://i.imgur.com/iVnfJSx.jpg Do you have a dial caliper for them to get precise measurements on the scale model? I'm guessing the scale is pretty accurate anyway then they only need to multiply by "about 12" (scale 1/48 1 in = 1 foot on big scale 1/4 one) |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 5:56:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brass: Do you have a dial caliper for them to get precise measurements on the scale model? I'm guessing the scale is pretty accurate anyway then they only need to multiply by "about 12" 12.08 We go with 12.1 |
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Posted: 9/10/2021 11:54:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: That sounds suspiciously like stressful work, moving fragile pieces without getting broken . Next year y'all should enter a float in the Mardi Gras. |
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Posted: 9/11/2021 12:37:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Maybe there could be a hot dog cart in the hanger?
 Making Miniature Papercraft Architecture! |
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Posted: 9/12/2021 4:25:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Next year y'all should enter a float in the Mardi Gras. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By guns762: That sounds suspiciously like stressful work, moving fragile pieces without getting broken . Next year y'all should enter a float in the Mardi Gras. Beer is on me as ya'll come through Baton Rouge. |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 12:07:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Well, dang.....
The caliper come out and my fear was real. We are way to thin in the fuselage. We should be 18". We are not. We are about 6" too thin. This is going to be a huge problem and probably require us to rework the entire fuselage.  The frames are all just wrong. The CAD interpretation was so far off, it's just getting things worse, and as we work towards the engines and wings, it just makes things worse. It is probably easier to just start over with most of it. What a Monday.
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Posted: 9/13/2021 12:30:52 PM EDT
[#33]
OP…..you are awesome.
Your projects are awesome. These kids are awesome. Can I send you some money to help? |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 12:31:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Well, dang..... The caliper come out and my fear was real. We are way to thin in the fuselage. We should be 18". We are not. We are about 6" too thin. This is going to be a huge problem and probably require us to rework the entire fuselage. The frames are all just wrong. The CAD interpretation was so far off, it's just getting things worse, and as we work towards the engines and wings, it just makes things worse. It is probably easier to just start over with most of it. What a Monday. Glad y'all caught it in September. Feed that ship some corn! |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 12:51:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Sonofa...caliper!
Ok, sometimes it's just better to start over. "Now, crew, let's put down the torches and pitchforks. Fire is not an approved method of dissent, unless you're moving to Potland--er Portland." I'd say the CAD crew needs to get on this most rikki-tikki, and the T-shirts need "F-22 rebuilders union 87" on them someplace! Can you label the existing struts for reuse? Salvage most of the parts? Hang the old parts on the CAD room door, with "Here we Measure
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Posted: 9/13/2021 12:51:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drsalee: OP…..you are awesome. Your projects are awesome. These kids are awesome. Can I send you some money to help? We definitely will accept donations. They can be sent to PHS Art Guild Powell High School 1151 E. 7th St. Powell, WY 82435 |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 12:52:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mak_380: Sonofa...caliper! Ok, sometimes it's just better to start over. "Now, crew, let's put down the torches and pitchforks. Fire is not an approved method of dissent, unless you're moving to Potland--er Portland." I'd say the CAD crew needs to get on this most rikki-tikki, and the T-shirts need "F-22 rebuilders union 87" on them someplace! Can you label the existing struts for reuse? Salvage most of the parts? Hang the old parts on the CAD room door, with "Here we Measure We are discussing all this right now.  I haven't seen fire yet. 
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Posted: 9/13/2021 12:53:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Well, dang..... The caliper come out and my fear was real. We are way to thin in the fuselage. We should be 18". We are not. We are about 6" too thin. This is going to be a huge problem and probably require us to rework the entire fuselage. The frames are all just wrong. The CAD interpretation was so far off, it's just getting things worse, and as we work towards the engines and wings, it just makes things worse. It is probably easier to just start over with most of it. What a Monday. 
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Posted: 9/13/2021 1:15:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: We definitely will accept donations. They can be sent to PHS Art Guild Powell High School 1151 E. 7th St. Powell, WY 82435 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By Drsalee: OP…..you are awesome. Your projects are awesome. These kids are awesome. Can I send you some money to help? We definitely will accept donations. They can be sent to PHS Art Guild Powell High School 1151 E. 7th St. Powell, WY 82435 
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Posted: 9/13/2021 1:28:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seiran: I have an idea - Why not use this as sort of like a schematic type image you see in the books like Jane's, where part of it is fully rendered, and the rest is skeletonized to show internals? That way it doesn't go to waste, and it could add a neat little portion to the display. Or just use half of it, coming out of the wall at a slight angle with the rest painted into the background mural. |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 1:28:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ashraam: Or just use half of it, coming out of the wall at a slight angle with the rest painted into the background mural. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ashraam: Originally Posted By Seiran: I have an idea - Why not use this as sort of like a schematic type image you see in the books like Jane's, where part of it is fully rendered, and the rest is skeletonized to show internals? That way it doesn't go to waste, and it could add a neat little portion to the display. Or just use half of it, coming out of the wall at a slight angle with the rest painted into the background mural. |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 1:46:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Maybe a row of corpses hung by pikes leading from the CAD classroom to the final display?
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Posted: 9/13/2021 2:15:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Now, Now, let's be reasonable. (why?)
A display of rulers, with various markings could make the point. Cubits (Forearm). Inches. Decimal Inches. Metric. CADiots. (Bent S-shape wood, with stretched and shrunk markings, none of which are evenly separated.) Have them work on this in secret, and present it to the teacher when a) he leaves, or b) you don't need him anymore!
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Posted: 9/13/2021 2:49:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ashraam: Or just use half of it, coming out of the wall at a slight angle with the rest painted into the background mural. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ashraam: Originally Posted By Seiran: I have an idea - Why not use this as sort of like a schematic type image you see in the books like Jane's, where part of it is fully rendered, and the rest is skeletonized to show internals? That way it doesn't go to waste, and it could add a neat little portion to the display. Or just use half of it, coming out of the wall at a slight angle with the rest painted into the background mural. Hmmmm..... We don't have the front 1/3rd of the plane....that portion is good to go. We would have to remake all that too. Probably would run into some resistance over that. |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 3:28:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Hmmmm..... We don't have the front 1/3rd of the plane....that portion is good to go. We would have to remake all that too. Probably would run into some resistance over that. And by resistance, he means the students that currently want to go to war w/ the CAD department would turn on him w/ Exacto blades donated by ARFCOM, and death by a thousand cuts would take all of 5 minutes.
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Posted: 9/13/2021 3:29:45 PM EDT
[#46]
We went back and looked at the original CAD drawing the students found. It is pretty bad. There is no way to take that and get what we need, and not waste vast amounts of time.
We are going to take our frames as they are now, trace them out, then add the material to the tracing to make them the correct size. We think this will be the most efficient use of our time, as well as ending up with the shapes we need to have. We are happy with the general shapes we have now, other than a few areas that need corrections, based on the 1/48th scale model. New plywood is on the way. Not a bad price at $25 per sheet. |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 3:30:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: And by resistance, he means the students that currently want to go to war w/ the CAD department would turn on him w/ Exacto blades donated by ARFCOM, and death by a thousand cuts would take all of 5 minutes. Yes.
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Posted: 9/13/2021 5:45:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Rename the thread F22.5 and make it whatever shape you want.
There's going to be a dog on a flying doghouse next to it. Who can argue? |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 7:25:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By raffi383: Rename the thread F22.5 and make it whatever shape you want. There's going to be a dog on a flying doghouse next to it. Who can argue? Make it the super secret YF-27E or something, but tear down and re-use is good if they can cut the extra precisely enough on the 2.5D router to leave no gap when gluing plywood edges to plywood, then just a few stringers on each side to ensure it stays in line. Unless both the top and bottom contours are bad, then the frames are kind of junk unless expanding foam inside thin mold cavities are a new construction method. The stringers will be easily re-used an all the spots you learned from on this experiment will make the next one more nifty. Though I like the front nose of it peeking out of the wall, or that half wing we were talking about earlier. Too big to be waiting in the hangar. Look at it this way: We see little setbacks like this every year on nearly every project and it always ends up with a better result than if sticking with the original SWAG measurements (which I thought were taken from the drawings or another scale model). How many calipers did you test with? Do you have a 1" and 6" standard to check your equipment? (A 6" gets pricey, maybe just get a 1" so you can be sure of zero) The Standard also teaches students how to measure correctly, to get "the feel" so they aren't cranking down on them like clamps or leaving a bit of rattle room in an eyeball measurement. Don't forget angle size when making diagonal measurements (but using the horizontal/vertical component - Pythagorean Theorem and trig are your friends.) cheap for a check of cheap calipers that cost as much as the standard... https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01GKZ3XQG Or go Whole Hog Mr Precision. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00DSW48L4 |
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Posted: 9/13/2021 8:38:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Consider this - now you have to sneak a reference to the Hubble Telescope in there somewhere, for the mistake THEY made that makes yours look very small indeed.
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