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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:35:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Welcome to the Wild West.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7:
Orange shirt guy is one of the biggest imbeciles I've ever seen on an internet video. That having been said, the father son non-dynamic fat duo are going to be convicted of murder. You can't brandish a firearm for 3+ minutes to try and gain leverage in your argument over a mattress and then shoot a guy because he's not accepting your version of the argument while standing in a public alley. All parties should have walked back to their respective properties which were mere feet away and called the police over the mattress dumping. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:35:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike:
Read all the facts about this case before you judge folks because they have a gut and are shaped like a pear.  Maybe even a annual calendar with fat shirtless guys with their .380s and shotguns. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:36:04 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toastandjam: Did the dumpster lid close all the way with the mattress in it? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:36:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kiran04:
His son called the other guy a cocksucker, but it was Mr. Orange shirt that was just completely delusional and out of control. I don't know about you, but if there were two drawn guns in an alleyway, I'd want the fuck out of that alleyway as fast as I possibly could. But no, this guy genuinely believed he could come out on top, so he made his move and ended up splattered on the gravel for it. Don't bring a baseball bat to a gun fight and then try to start the fight with said baseball bat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kiran04:
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65: Either party should have walked away. Both were on neutral ground. The ally was behind the house of the guy who was killed... The men with the firearms made clear their intentions. Then, they got emotionally involved, especially the son. He was making outright threats. Lots of stupid all around. I dont know the law in Texas (This was Texas right?) but me personally, I try to avoid encounters with shitheads when I am carrying, and if i can just leave so I don't have to potentially kill someone, great. De-escalate, leave, etc. If the big assbrain had shut his stupid fucking macho mouth, he could have called the police. If the Trailer Park Boys Randy lookalikes had walked away as soon as big guy was howling that he was going to kill them and called the police, everyone would be alive there. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:37:21 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike: Total bullshit. Google City of Abilene solid waste. Ignorance at Tsar Bomba levels.  There's literally nothing there that says not to put a mattress in a dumpster. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:37:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Muffin top is going to get all the shockwave he can handle in prison.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:38:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: Adrenaline in that kind of situation is a motherfucker. Triggers the fight or flight reflex and takes away your ability to reason properly. Been where those pear shaped dudes were standing many times at work and felt it pretty often. Fortunately nowadays I tend to keep my mouth shut when I feel the adrenaline take away my higher thought processes, but that is far and away a learned behavior and I still do stupid stuff, just not as much. A couple guys who obviously lived a pretty sedentary life probably had very little experience with adrenal stress and their body's reaction to it. Of course they said dumb illogical shit and made mistakes, they were scared and their minds weren't working correctly because a lot of the blood that would ordinarily carry oxygen to their brain was currently collecting in their body core to protect them from going into shock after an anticipated injury. That is the physical science of it. The psychology of it is another matter, but basically they got blindsided by the guy not responding rationally when they pulled out guns and got caught in a mental loop of "WTF do I do NOW?" which was aggravated by the adrenaline making it hard for them to think. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:40:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Well if we get nothing else from this incident, can we all finally agree that a shotgun is a solid choice for personal defense against more than birds.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:40:46 AM EDT
[#9]
The father may have been justified taking the shot because it probably stopped the attack. Junior’s follow up head canoe shot with the shot gun was outright murder.
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:41:01 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
That's new york thinking dude. Stay out of the rest of the country. Having a firearm out in response to a threat is not "brandishing." All parties should have walked away, however one was out of control raging so turning your back on him probably meant getting attacked. The neighbors likely KNEW this guy was like this already. And, likely they also knew he would spend a bunch of time fucking with them later as well. Some of you guys need to look up the definition of some words. Start with "brandishing". If your loved ones have mental illness, get them into institutions. The rest of us do not deserve to be subjected to their bullshit. Take them out of society if they can't handle it, or society may solve the problem in other ways. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:41:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Some reports say the Father pulled his pistol after being confronted by Mr. Orange Shirt. The son heard the altercation and came out to defend his Father. I believe TX laws allows a third party to use lethal force to protect someone.
As for who egged who and how that comes into play. That is for the jury to decide. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:42:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7: http://abilenetx.gov/city-hall/departments/public-works/solid-waste-services/collection-services There's literally nothing there that says not to put a mattress in a dumpster. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:43:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Heavy trash day is serious business. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By toastandjam: Did the dumpster lid close all the way with the mattress in it? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:45:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike:
You are a poor reader and potentially blind. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7: http://abilenetx.gov/city-hall/departments/public-works/solid-waste-services/collection-services There's literally nothing there that says not to put a mattress in a dumpster. Seems furniture is a bulk item. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:47:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike:
You are a poor reader and potentially blind. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7: http://abilenetx.gov/city-hall/departments/public-works/solid-waste-services/collection-services There's literally nothing there that says not to put a mattress in a dumpster. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:48:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7: I realize that laws vary by state. But most states are pretty consistent in that you draw and fire in response to a threat to your life or safety. You don't hold a firearm in your hand and randomly point it back and forth at the ground or a person while you argue over the placement of a mattress. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:50:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
No state says you need to draw and fire in response to a threat. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7: I realize that laws vary by state. But most states are pretty consistent in that you draw and fire in response to a threat to your life or safety. You don't hold a firearm in your hand and randomly point it back and forth at the ground or a person while you argue over the placement of a mattress. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:53:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
I assume the big guy was going to put the mattress back into the dumpster and the other guys came out there with guns to stop him from doing that...….right? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By toastandjam: Did the dumpster lid close all the way with the mattress in it? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:54:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toastandjam:
Wasn't even a dumpster but a 300 gallon shared container. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toastandjam:
Originally Posted By RDak:
Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By toastandjam: Did the dumpster lid close all the way with the mattress in it? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:57:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
Looks like the big guy was right. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
Originally Posted By Pike:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7: http://abilenetx.gov/city-hall/departments/public-works/solid-waste-services/collection-services There's literally nothing there that says not to put a mattress in a dumpster. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 7:58:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
Yeah and the rule said you can't do that like the big guy was saying. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
Originally Posted By toastandjam:
Originally Posted By RDak:
Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By toastandjam: Did the dumpster lid close all the way with the mattress in it? Old shirtless fat man or young shirtless fat man? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:00:58 AM EDT
[#22]
I would seriously choose pear-shaped jurors.
Come at me bro! 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:01:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike:
Read all the facts about this case before you judge folks because they have a gut and are shaped like a pear. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:05:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WildBoar]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1811guy:
The father may have been justified taking the shot because it probably stopped the attack. Junior’s follow up head canoe shot with the shot gun was outright murder. Either way its a bunch of flabby rednecks doing redneck shit. This is the White version of the hood. I have no sympathy for a single one of them, |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:10:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
WTF did I just watch!!??  |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:14:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7: Ironically, it seems dead guy was right about the mattress. You're not supposed to put it on the ground for trash pickup, but you are supposed to put it in the dumpster, which he did. Then the two fatasses took it out of the dumpster and threw it onto orange shirt guys property. He was in the process of putting it back in the dumpster when the other two inbreds showed up with guns. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:15:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBoar:
Not if the guy was still standing and Jr believed he may still be a threat. Perhaps in his mind Dad shot at the tall psycho hillbilly and the bullets failed to STOPor possibly missed and believed the big tard still may have had some fight in him? Video doesn't tell the whole story. Either way its a bunch of flabby rednecks doing redneck shit. This is the White version of the hood. I have no sympathy for a single one of them, |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:17:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1811guy:
The father may have been justified taking the shot because it probably stopped the attack. Junior’s follow up head canoe shot with the shot gun was outright murder. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:24:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
No state says you need to draw and fire in response to a threat. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:26:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Why must us testosterone filled men refuse to turn the other cheek and seek conflict resolution instead of pounding our chests like gorillas.
Feel bad for the wife. As much as she may not have been helping the situation to see that unfold in front of you must have been horrible. And then there's the kids.  Sheesh. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:27:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Shirtless family will likely go down for something.
Orange guy made more poor choices. Looked like orange got his bat (or was given) , moved close enough to call bluff, and was shot. They were not bluffing. I think he threw the bat in response to being shot when Jr leveled his shotgun and blew his face off defending pops. I could probably be swayed either way on a jury
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:31:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Taxmantoo]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
I completely understand that...…..is that why they had their guns with them? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
I completely understand that...…..is that why they had their guns with them? This is ArfCom, I thought everybody here carried 24/7. Elder Miller, according to Box, pulled a pistol out of his shorts (holster) when Howard confronted him. One might assume that younger Miller saw dad in an armed standoff and grabbed his Shockwave for backup. Hard to say it's two on one if Howard's brother was there with a ball bat. Originally Posted By RDak:
I assume the big guy was going to put the mattress back into the dumpster and the other guys came out there with guns to stop him from doing that...….right? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:34:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pike]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apierce918:
Shirtless family will likely go down for something. Orange guy made more poor choices. Looked like orange got his bat (or was given) , moved close enough to call bluff, and was shot. They were not bluffing. I think he threw the bat in response to being shot when Jr leveled his shotgun and blew his face off defending pops. I could probably be swayed either way on a jury Is a baseball bat at 3 feet a deadly threat? I wouldn't turn my back on that orange ranting psycho. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:35:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
No state says you need to draw and fire in response to a threat. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7: I realize that laws vary by state. But most states are pretty consistent in that you draw and fire in response to a threat to your life or safety. You don't hold a firearm in your hand and randomly point it back and forth at the ground or a person while you argue over the placement of a mattress. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:35:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beardog296:
Well if we get nothing else from this incident, can we all finally agree that a shotgun is a solid choice for personal defense against more than birds. 
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:35:09 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bagofcrabs65: |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:37:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pike]
[#37]
WOW.
Part of concealed carry classes should be reading this board on self-defense shootings. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:37:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Some reports say the Father pulled his pistol after being confronted by Mr. Orange Shirt. The son heard the altercation and came out to defend his Father. I believe TX laws allows a third party to use lethal force to protect someone. As for who egged who and how that comes into play. That is for the jury to decide. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:41:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By josepha1:
Not sure of the law, in Texas should the son have called the law first (maybe he did, I haven’t been following this thread closely) before going out there to defend his father? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By josepha1:
Originally Posted By Miami_JBT:
Some reports say the Father pulled his pistol after being confronted by Mr. Orange Shirt. The son heard the altercation and came out to defend his Father. I believe TX laws allows a third party to use lethal force to protect someone. As for who egged who and how that comes into play. That is for the jury to decide. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:43:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222:
It seemed from the video that the common dumpster was not on the property of either party in the dispute. It stands to reason that the shirtless pair left their property with weapons to confront orange guy at the dumpster which is in a common area. It's hard to claim self defense when you've traveled armed to a confrontation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222:
Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7: I realize that laws vary by state. But most states are pretty consistent in that you draw and fire in response to a threat to your life or safety. You don't hold a firearm in your hand and randomly point it back and forth at the ground or a person while you argue over the placement of a mattress. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. Odds are the Fat Family lived there for years and knew how the 300 gallon shared trash collection worked, which included the rules by the city that bulk trash, to include furniture, is not to be placed inside it. Bulk is collected separately, outside of the container. Anyway, Mr. Orange shirt put the mattress in the container one day, it was removed by the Fat boys. Mr. Orange shirt went into a rage, started yelling screaming, making threats, screaming at the mail man, yelling at clouds to get away from his windows, and other nonsense. Fat boy junior came out, pulled out the Shockwave shotgun from behind his mustache and a standoff occurred. Mr. Orange shirt called for a baseball bat and the fiance started running her mouth and then pew-pew and blam-blam happened. And now I want a Shockwave shotgun. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:44:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Taxmantoo: You need a reason to carry a firearm? This is ArfCom, I thought everybody here carried 24/7. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Taxmantoo: You need a reason to carry a firearm? This is ArfCom, I thought everybody here carried 24/7. From what I read, I think based on statements from Box (the screamer with the cell phone), Howard threw the mattress in the dumpster that the city provided for the residents' use. Somebody threw it in Howard's yard. Howard put it back in the dumpster. Old Miller took it out. Howard ordered Miller to put it back and Miller refused. (then we can surmise that Howard started yelling threats before Miller drew his sidearm and Box started recording) As for Orange Shirt inbred having his brother retrieve the bat, while it's ludicrous to bring a bat to a gun fight, he had every justification to arm himself and "stand his ground" on public property while he was not committing a crime after someone else pointed a gun at him. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:45:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
That's new york thinking dude. Stay out of the rest of the country. Having a firearm out in response to a threat is not "brandishing." All parties should have walked away, however one was out of control raging so turning your back on him probably meant getting attacked. The neighbors likely KNEW this guy was like this already. And, likely they also knew he would spend a bunch of time fucking with them later as well. Some of you guys need to look up the definition of some words. Start with "brandishing". If your loved ones have mental illness, get them into institutions. The rest of us do not deserve to be subjected to their bullshit. Take them out of society if they can't handle it, or society may solve the problem in other ways. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:47:09 AM EDT
[#43]
It is pretty ridiculous.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:47:17 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagger41: Somebody is going to lose a trailer over this. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:49:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pike]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -GuNuT-:
If they knew he was like that, why did they confront him in the first place? It's not like they drew from concealment when threatened. They acted tough because they were armed and escalated the situation. Also, It's pretty easy to move away from someone while keeping at eye on them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -GuNuT-:
Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
That's new york thinking dude. Stay out of the rest of the country. Having a firearm out in response to a threat is not "brandishing." All parties should have walked away, however one was out of control raging so turning your back on him probably meant getting attacked. The neighbors likely KNEW this guy was like this already. And, likely they also knew he would spend a bunch of time fucking with them later as well. Some of you guys need to look up the definition of some words. Start with "brandishing". If your loved ones have mental illness, get them into institutions. The rest of us do not deserve to be subjected to their bullshit. Take them out of society if they can't handle it, or society may solve the problem in other ways. Normal folks walk away from loaded guns when given the chance and let the cops come and deal with it. The fiance had it on video. That fact Orange stayed and escalated with a baseball bat demonstrates a lot to me about how nuts Mr. Orange was.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:50:23 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7: That's exactly what it was - displaying a weapon for intimidation. He thought he was right about the mattress and drew his gun to attempt to gain the upper hand in the argument. Orange shirt guy didn't have his brother get his bat until after the other two inbreds showed up with guns drawn. There was no credible threat before they drew their guns, and they were waving their guns around for 3+ minutes while arguing about the mattress. Orange shirt inbred had just as much right to be in the alley as the other two inbreds. Father son inbreds should have taken a few steps back to their property and called the police to handle the mattress situation rather than pointing guns at the guy to intimidate him into removing the mattress. You are just making shit up, because of cultural differences and a fat redneck with a gun isn't in your realm of experience. With the holster, clearly seen on the video, the guy could have it holstered until after dead guy came out and started making threats. After that, the son coming out to help dad, again, after threats, means neither of the guns were out before a threat was made. Yet, you MAKE SHIT UP the other way. Again, New York thinking. Keep it in your own neighborhood please. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:55:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222:
It seemed from the video that the common dumpster was not on the property of either party in the dispute. It stands to reason that the shirtless pair left their property with weapons to confront orange guy at the dumpster which is in a common area. It's hard to claim self defense when you've traveled armed to a confrontation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222:
Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Originally Posted By 79CJ7: I realize that laws vary by state. But most states are pretty consistent in that you draw and fire in response to a threat to your life or safety. You don't hold a firearm in your hand and randomly point it back and forth at the ground or a person while you argue over the placement of a mattress. They only say you can't use an unjustified display of a weapon for intimidation or threat purposes. Drawing (or walking out with a shotgun) because there is a perceived threat and not shooting is NOT brandishing. Again, read the laws of your state. Maybe the dad went out there first with a pistol in his pocket, and IED dad came out and started threatening the dad, which prompted the son to bring out the shotgun. Said a different way, let's say someone was threatening to kill one of my family members - near my house, but not on my property, I'm not going to throw up my hands and say "well, it's public property, good luck with that dad." |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:56:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Them piggies is gonna fry.
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:56:43 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Did you see a video we haven't? How do you know about what happened before this video? You are just making shit up, because of cultural differences and a fat redneck with a gun isn't in your realm of experience. With the holster, clearly seen on the video, the guy could have it holstered until after dead guy came out and started making threats. After that, the son coming out to help dad, again, after threats, means neither of the guns were out before a threat was made. Yet, you MAKE SHIT UP the other way. Again, New York thinking. Keep it in your own neighborhood please. Also, I'm not defending that Orange Shirt imbecile in any way. I really don't care if all you inbred rednecks kill each other, would probably be a positive development. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 8:57:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -GuNuT-: If they knew he was like that, why did they confront him in the first place? It's not like they drew from concealment when threatened. They acted tough because they were armed and escalated the situation. Also, It's pretty easy to move away from someone while keeping at eye on them. Lay it the fuck out. I really don't understand where this comes from. Show your work, line by line. |
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