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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:02:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toastandjam: Did the dumpster lid close all the way with the mattress in it? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:08:53 AM EDT
[#2]
So many lessons to be learned here.
Don’t take a baseball bat to a gunfight. Don’t underestimate fat bellied old guys. Don’t underestimate fat bellied younger guys. If someone says they’re going to shoot you they probably will. If you’re going to shoot someone watch your language. There are people out there who take a shotgun to a gunfight. Really. Don’t make jacking off gestures at insane guys bigger than you. Don’t put your mattress in the community dumpster. A lot of Arfcom members are clueless regarding self defense laws. This is the gift that keeps on giving.  
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:14:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kells81]
[#3]
As someone who has brought a gun into a situation of a criminal and his kids I can say that the orange shirt guys reaction was spot on. Rational goes out the window in the situation as I would assume I would probably lose some rational.
Based on the video I would not convict the old man. The son's fate is questionable though. That is just based on the video alone. The details in how the 2 armed individuals came to be in the alley is where this one will get convictions depending on the jury. ETA: front he link Saturday morning, John Miller went to take out the trash, armed with a handgun. (As anyone who has a legal right to be armed should) Things escalated and Michael Miller went inside and grabbed his shot gun. (This is where juniors fate really falls into question) Someone reportedly went into Howard's house to get a baseball bat. (DO NOT bring a bat to a gunfight) |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:17:32 AM EDT
[#4]
Reason nor wife nor man tits nor jerk off hand gestures stayed Orange shirt from the swift connection of their appointed rounds.
Trying to play off the mail service motto. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:21:56 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:23:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Killed over a dumpster. Fucking stupid.
Going to jail for murder over a dumpster. Just as stupid. Both sets of tards had plenty of opportunities to descalate but didn’t. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:25:51 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burkeva:
Killed over a dumpster. Fucking stupid. Going to jail for murder over a dumpster. Just as stupid. Both sets of tards had plenty of opportunities to descalate but didn't. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:26:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Not the best shoot, but the guy was protecting himself. Fat kid with shotgun goes to jail, his life was not threatened and he assisted with a blast to the head. Taking the shot that killed the guy.
Hard to say if he would have lived or not with the first two? JMO if I am a juror. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:27:55 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:30:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: Not the best shoot, but the guy was protecting himself. Fat kid with shotgun goes to jail, his life was not threatened and he assisted with a blast to the head. Taking the shot that killed the guy. Hard to say if he would have lived or not with the first two? JMO if I am a juror. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:31:12 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7: Carry? Sure. Have it in your hand waving it around and pointing it at people while you try to get them to remove a mattress? No. When you have a dispute like this with the neighbors, you call the police and let them sort it out. Confronting them with guns in an attempt to "get your way" whether or not your way is correct is not going to generally end well. As for Orange Shirt inbred having his brother retrieve the bat, while it's ludicrous to bring a bat to a gun fight, he had every justification to arm himself and "stand his ground" on public property while he was not committing a crime after someone else pointed a gun at him. I think society will be just fine with all 3 gone. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:49:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Can anyone lookup Aaron Howard's criminal history? With the temper and judgement displayed and lack of owning a gun I'd be surprised if he wasn't already a felon.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:51:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast:
Can anyone lookup Aaron Howard's criminal history? With the temper and judgement displayed and lack of owning a gun I'd be surprised if he wasn't already a felon. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:52:08 AM EDT
[#14]
I'd probably nullify if i was on the jury.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:52:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: misc]
[#15]
Turned out the dead perp had threatened a postal carrier just few days before his dirt nap.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:52:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Fat kid will claim defense of a third party. If the father is ok to shoot, why isn't the son ok to shoot as well? Still it was probably unnecessary to blast him with a shotgun. But then they were too fucking fat to run or back away fast enough. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:53:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: No idea on Texas laws, so if true I suppose it could work. Was the guy still coming after the dad once he was shot twice? Don't believe the video shows it, so no actual proof? Still it was probably unnecessary to blast him with a shotgun. But then they were too fucking fat to run or back away fast enough. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 9:57:05 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:02:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dcat: Not a chance in hell this is capital murder under Texas law. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:03:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Sad situation.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:04:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast:
Can anyone lookup Aaron Howard's criminal history? With the temper and judgement displayed and lack of owning a gun I'd be surprised if he wasn't already a felon. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:05:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BladedRonin]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
I suspect a lot of people don't realize the world is full of angry dimwits with bad judgment because they're lucky enough to not have to deal with them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By burkeva:
Killed over a dumpster. Fucking stupid. Going to jail for murder over a dumpster. Just as stupid. Both sets of tards had plenty of opportunities to descalate but didn't. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:05:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast:
Can anyone lookup Aaron Howard's criminal history? With the temper and judgement displayed and lack of owning a gun I'd be surprised if he wasn't already a felon. He’s an angel. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:09:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR:
No idea on Texas laws, so if true I suppose it could work. Was the guy still coming after the dad once he was shot twice? Don't believe the video shows it, so no actual proof? Still it was probably unnecessary to blast him with a shotgun. But then they were too fucking fat to run or back away fast enough. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Fat kid will claim defense of a third party. If the father is ok to shoot, why isn't the son ok to shoot as well? Still it was probably unnecessary to blast him with a shotgun. But then they were too fucking fat to run or back away fast enough. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:11:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By netofficer3710:
Both were wrong, dead guy was more wrong though... I wouldn't be upset if they walked, i don't expect them to though. You can't instigate a situation and then expect to be able to claim self defense. They should have walked away. Randy fron trailer park boys should not have said "suck my dick" They should not have dared him to come at them. They should have said "if you come any closer i'll shoot" because "i'll kill you" implies that instead of "stopping" him, your goal is to end his life. These are the reasons they are both in deep shit... Keeping and bearing arms is NOT itself "instigating" or "provoking" anything. It's 100% legal and every one of us is within our rights to do it. Also, the value of your life and safety does not reduce or diminish, just because you decide to exercise this right as many here have twisted this to mean. Responding to insults and death threats with an insult of your own is another act that does not forfeit your right to defend yourself. It's amazing that people are inventing a scenario out of this where these two have (with a single utterance, and by keeping and bearing arms) completely forfeited their right to defend themselves against an obviously enraged and violent asshole swinging a bat. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:13:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By alphabavo:
“You’re not going to shoot my husband.” |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:13:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45:
https://i.imgur.com/PyBw1SL.gif |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:15:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigFatDog]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007:
No, it's highly likely what came out of their mouths that got them charged. With that video, STFU and a lawyer, this would be a stone cold loser. Keeping and bearing arms is NOT itself "instigating" or "provoking" anything. It's 100% legal and every one of us is within our rights to do it. Also, the value of your life and safety does not reduce or diminish, just because you decide to exercise this right as many here have twisted this to mean. Responding to insults and death threats with an insult of your own is another act that does not forfeit your right to defend yourself. It's amazing that people are inventing a scenario out of this where these two have (with a single utterance, and by keeping and bearing arms) completely forfeited their right to defend themselves against an obviously enraged and violent asshole swinging a bat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007:
Originally Posted By netofficer3710:
Both were wrong, dead guy was more wrong though... I wouldn't be upset if they walked, i don't expect them to though. You can't instigate a situation and then expect to be able to claim self defense. They should have walked away. Randy fron trailer park boys should not have said "suck my dick" They should not have dared him to come at them. They should have said "if you come any closer i'll shoot" because "i'll kill you" implies that instead of "stopping" him, your goal is to end his life. These are the reasons they are both in deep shit... Keeping and bearing arms is NOT itself "instigating" or "provoking" anything. It's 100% legal and every one of us is within our rights to do it. Also, the value of your life and safety does not reduce or diminish, just because you decide to exercise this right as many here have twisted this to mean. Responding to insults and death threats with an insult of your own is another act that does not forfeit your right to defend yourself. It's amazing that people are inventing a scenario out of this where these two have (with a single utterance, and by keeping and bearing arms) completely forfeited their right to defend themselves against an obviously enraged and violent asshole swinging a bat.  Do I have to pull the trigger? -Texas Given all the interactions in the incident video, "defuse" may be a tough sell. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:16:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: Not the best shoot, but the guy was protecting himself. Fat kid with shotgun goes to jail, his life was not threatened and he assisted with a blast to the head. Taking the shot that killed the guy. Hard to say if he would have lived or not with the first two? JMO if I am a juror. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:19:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runfrumu:
In my state Im pretty sure you can use deadly force if someone elses life is in danger. If pops was justified, so was junior. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runfrumu:
Originally Posted By JimmyAR: Not the best shoot, but the guy was protecting himself. Fat kid with shotgun goes to jail, his life was not threatened and he assisted with a blast to the head. Taking the shot that killed the guy. Hard to say if he would have lived or not with the first two? JMO if I am a juror. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:22:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7:
http://abilenetx.gov/city-hall/departments/public-works/solid-waste-services/collection-services There's literally nothing there that says not to put a mattress in a dumpster. DO Place bulk items, carpet, furniture, mattresses, or moving boxes behind your own property line, but not within five (5) feet of the container I think most people consider a mattress to be furniture, no? The City of Abilene Collection Service does. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:22:47 AM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:31:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
I assume the big guy was going to put the mattress back into the dumpster and the other guys came out there with guns to stop him from doing that....right? Given the dead guy's recent police standoff and obvious propensity for acting violently, the father decided to go armed - in case of a conflict. I'm guessing the son heard the dead guy screaming about taking the mattress out of the dumpster and putting it in his yard (per the regulations) and came out to back up his father. We don't get to see what transpired before the beginning of the video...but it was only 10 seconds in before the dead guy poked at the father. I can't tell if he made contact but it's possible he did. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:33:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDak:
I agree with you entirely....WHY did they walk out there with their guns??? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:37:38 AM EDT
[#35]
You know the more I think about this situation the more I think the Father and Son wanted to either "get it on" or were to damn stupid to understand what position they were in.
I understand SYG and all that. Even though it is legal to stand where you are at and defend yourself that doesn't mean it is the smarter thing to do. Had they just backed up and covered each other until they got back to their home and called the police for the raving lunatic outside they wouldn't be in jail for murder charges. Both parties seemed to be in mutual combat mode, they were both instigating and taunting, one party just happened to bring a stick to a gun fight because he himself was a moron as well. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:40:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Not exactly a good shoot by any means but no way I could convict the father or the son.
I dont see a clear exit from that situation and orange shirt was clearly dangerous. A fucked up way to die over a damn dumpster. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:40:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222:
....It's hard to claim self defense when you've traveled armed to a confrontation. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:41:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pike:
Listen to the news conference from the Abilene LE. As soon as the rep is done he goes on at length about how overtaxed his resources are and how stressed and overwhelmed his dispatchers are. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:44:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Lots of stupidity on both sides.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:45:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toastandjam: From a couple of news articles, the old man was out there with his pistol in his pocket when Mr. Rage lit up. Odds are the Fat Family lived there for years and knew how the 300 gallon shared trash collection worked, which included the rules by the city that bulk trash, to include furniture, is not to be placed inside it. Bulk is collected separately, outside of the container. Anyway, Mr. Orange shirt put the mattress in the container one day, it was removed by the Fat boys. Mr. Orange shirt went into a rage, started yelling screaming, making threats, screaming at the mail man, yelling at clouds to get away from his windows, and other nonsense. Fat boy junior came out, pulled out the Shockwave shotgun from behind his mustache and a standoff occurred. Mr. Orange shirt called for a baseball bat and the fiance started running her mouth and then pew-pew and blam-blam happened. And now I want a Shockwave shotgun.  Are we 100% it was a Shockwave and not a TAC-14? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:45:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buddyballs79:
Not exactly a good shoot by any means but no way I could convict the father or the son. I dont see a clear exit from that situation and orange shirt was clearly dangerous. A fucked up way to die over a damn dumpster. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:46:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7:
I'm just repeating what was in the news article. Also, I'm not defending that Orange Shirt imbecile in any way. I really don't care if all you inbred rednecks kill each other, would probably be a positive development. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7:
Originally Posted By RR_Broccoli:
Did you see a video we haven't? How do you know about what happened before this video? You are just making shit up, because of cultural differences and a fat redneck with a gun isn't in your realm of experience. With the holster, clearly seen on the video, the guy could have it holstered until after dead guy came out and started making threats. After that, the son coming out to help dad, again, after threats, means neither of the guns were out before a threat was made. Yet, you MAKE SHIT UP the other way. Again, New York thinking. Keep it in your own neighborhood please. Also, I'm not defending that Orange Shirt imbecile in any way. I really don't care if all you inbred rednecks kill each other, would probably be a positive development. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:46:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7:
Carry? Sure. Have it in your hand waving it around and pointing it at people while you try to get them to remove a mattress? No. When you have a dispute like this with the neighbors, you call the police and let them sort it out. Confronting them with guns in an attempt to "get your way" whether or not your way is correct is not going to generally end well. As for Orange Shirt inbred having his brother retrieve the bat, while it's ludicrous to bring a bat to a gun fight, he had every justification to arm himself and "stand his ground" on public property while he was not committing a crime after someone else pointed a gun at him. Having a gun in your hand at low ready is not 'pointing it at' someone. In fact, the lunatic expressly asked that the father point the gun at him so they could get it on video for the cops. If the father obliged, I missed it. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:49:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vik:
I could not convict them based on that video. They told him to leave. They told him not to advance on them or they would fire. They never actually threatened him other than to warn him not to advance past 3 feet. Orange shirt dead guy, repeatedly stated he would kill both of them, over and over and over again. He was twice their size and strength. He was facing two armed men, yet, he retrieved, brandished and advance on the two armed men with a baseball bat. He ended up DRT as per the warning. Not saying it was a good shoot, but I would not convict. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:49:30 AM EDT
[#45]
that was interdasting.
Guess the dead guy thought the other two was bluffing. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:51:02 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:51:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: waterglass]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
You know the more I think about this situation the more I think the Father and Son wanted to either "get it on" or were to damn stupid to understand what position they were in. I understand SYG and all that. Even though it is legal to stand where you are at and defend yourself that doesn't mean it is the smarter thing to do. Had they just backed up and covered each other until they got back to their home and called the police for the raving lunatic outside they wouldn't be in jail for murder charges. Both parties seemed to be in mutual combat mode, they were both instigating and taunting, one party just happened to bring a stick to a gun fight because he himself was a moron as well. But I have talked my self out of situations like that. but I am also above average in size and have been told I am a fellow few would actually want to fuck with. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:51:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: Not the best shoot, but the guy was protecting himself. Fat kid with shotgun goes to jail, his life was not threatened and he assisted with a blast to the head. Taking the shot that killed the guy. Hard to say if he would have lived or not with the first two? JMO if I am a juror. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:52:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StrkAliteN:
Pretty much my thoughts as well Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StrkAliteN:
Originally Posted By Vik:
I could not convict them based on that video. They told him to leave. They told him not to advance on them or they would fire. They never actually threatened him other than to warn him not to advance past 3 feet. Orange shirt dead guy, repeatedly stated he would kill both of them, over and over and over again. He was twice their size and strength. He was facing two armed men, yet, he retrieved, brandished and advance on the two armed men with a baseball bat. He ended up DRT as per the warning. Not saying it was a good shoot, but I would not convict. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:53:07 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By misc:
Turned out the dead perp had threatened a postal carrier just few days before his dirt nap. |
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