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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:53:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chase45:
https://i.imgur.com/PyBw1SL.gif 
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:54:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blackheart_Actual:
I giggled Are we 100% it was a Shockwave and not a TAC-14? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blackheart_Actual:
Originally Posted By toastandjam: From a couple of news articles, the old man was out there with his pistol in his pocket when Mr. Rage lit up. Odds are the Fat Family lived there for years and knew how the 300 gallon shared trash collection worked, which included the rules by the city that bulk trash, to include furniture, is not to be placed inside it. Bulk is collected separately, outside of the container. Anyway, Mr. Orange shirt put the mattress in the container one day, it was removed by the Fat boys. Mr. Orange shirt went into a rage, started yelling screaming, making threats, screaming at the mail man, yelling at clouds to get away from his windows, and other nonsense. Fat boy junior came out, pulled out the Shockwave shotgun from behind his mustache and a standoff occurred. Mr. Orange shirt called for a baseball bat and the fiance started running her mouth and then pew-pew and blam-blam happened. And now I want a Shockwave shotgun. Are we 100% it was a Shockwave and not a TAC-14? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:55:04 AM EDT
[#3]
He thought that they were bluffing and they were not.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:55:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: No, it's highly likely what came out of their mouths that got them charged. With that video, STFU and a lawyer, this would be a stone cold loser. Keeping and bearing arms is NOT itself "instigating" or "provoking" anything. It's 100% legal and every one of us is within our rights to do it. Also, the value of your life and safety does not reduce or diminish, just because you decide to exercise this right as many here have twisted this to mean. Responding to insults and death threats with an insult of your own is another act that does not forfeit your right to defend yourself. It's amazing that people are inventing a scenario out of this where these two have (with a single utterance, and by keeping and bearing arms) completely forfeited their right to defend themselves against an obviously enraged and violent asshole swinging a bat. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:56:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MateFrio]
[#5]
I couldn't convict on the video alone.
A guy who chooses to arm himself with a wood bat or board while screaming at two armed men that he'll kill them is a valid threat. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:58:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
My understanding is that they were actually waiting for the cops on a public road. You may have missed it but the dead guys brother went into the house to retrieve weapons. I'm not turning my back to them or letting them both get out of my sight, arm up and beard me in my den. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
You know the more I think about this situation the more I think the Father and Son wanted to either "get it on" or were to damn stupid to understand what position they were in. I understand SYG and all that. Even though it is legal to stand where you are at and defend yourself that doesn't mean it is the smarter thing to do. Had they just backed up and covered each other until they got back to their home and called the police for the raving lunatic outside they wouldn't be in jail for murder charges. Both parties seemed to be in mutual combat mode, they were both instigating and taunting, one party just happened to bring a stick to a gun fight because he himself was a moron as well. As for letting them out of your sight, unless you are going to follow them on the their property & into their home or hold them at gun point to which you better be willing and legally able to shoot them, you don't have a choice in the matter and you paint yourself into a corner that you may not be able to get out of. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:59:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Possibly because they were familiar with the lunatic next door who couldn't understand the trash code and he wanted protection against being attacked. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:59:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7:
Carry? Sure. Have it in your hand waving it around and pointing it at people while you try to get them to remove a mattress? No. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 79CJ7:
Carry? Sure. Have it in your hand waving it around and pointing it at people while you try to get them to remove a mattress? No. You literally don't know whether or not father and son took it out, whether or not they forced the deceased to take it out, or whether or not the deceased took it out voluntarily before any guns were drawn. When you have a dispute like this with the neighbors, you call the police and let them sort it out. Confronting them with guns in an attempt to "get your way" whether or not your way is correct is not going to generally end well. As for Orange Shirt inbred having his brother retrieve the bat, while it's ludicrous to bring a bat to a gun fight, he had every justification to arm himself and "stand his ground" on public property while he was not committing a crime after someone else pointed a gun at him. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:59:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast:
link? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast:
Originally Posted By misc:
Turned out the dead perp had threatened a postal carrier just few days before his dirt nap. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:59:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
At what point in the video does the father point his gun at the lunatic? I must have missed it. Having a gun in your hand at low ready is not 'pointing it at' someone. In fact, the lunatic expressly asked that the father point the gun at him so they could get it on video for the cops. If the father obliged, I missed it. OrangeRage was completely out of control and completely wrong. Fatman and Tac14son may very well go to prison, but not because of the law. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 10:59:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runfrumu:
In my state Im pretty sure you can use deadly force if someone elses life is in danger. If pops was justified, so was junior. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By runfrumu:
Originally Posted By JimmyAR: Not the best shoot, but the guy was protecting himself. Fat kid with shotgun goes to jail, his life was not threatened and he assisted with a blast to the head. Taking the shot that killed the guy. Hard to say if he would have lived or not with the first two? JMO if I am a juror. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:00:56 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:01:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714:
You can't see a clear exit? What's wrong with just walking away? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714:
Originally Posted By buddyballs79:
Not exactly a good shoot by any means but no way I could convict the father or the son. I dont see a clear exit from that situation and orange shirt was clearly dangerous. A fucked up way to die over a damn dumpster. Guy in orange shirt clearly should have walked away but the duo team I dont see how they just turn their backs to a guy threatening to kill them and simply walk home. No way in hell crazy dude just lets them walk. Cover your retreat? That's absolutely ridiculous lol. If you're in such danger that you need a covered retreat it's too dangerous to attempt one. Sometimes violence is the only answer and the only option you have. It get it's hard these days for the pacifists to accept that though. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:01:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TX03RUBI:
I don’t mean the shirtless part to be an insult. I mean for it to show the weapons didn’t magically appear when the guy became aggressive. They weapons arrived in hand. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TX03RUBI:
Originally Posted By frayedknot: During the summer, I walk around my house shirtless, barefoot and wearing gym shorts. Sometimes I may have a pistol in my pants. If a neighbor starts some shit, does that mean I’m looking for a fight? In other words, do you have video of the initial confrontation that lead up to the limited video the rest of us have seen? “That’s when John (Miller) pulled a pistol out of his shorts,” she said. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:01:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: pcsutton]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kihn:
that was interdasting. Guess the dead guy thought the other two was bluffing. 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:02:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: No idea on Texas laws, so if true I suppose it could work. Was the guy still coming after the dad once he was shot twice? Don't believe the video shows it, so no actual proof? Still it was probably unnecessary to blast him with a shotgun. But then they were too fucking fat to run or back away fast enough. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:02:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
You didn't miss anything. People in this thread are imagining all kinds of actions that never occurred. OrangeRage was completely out of control and completely wrong. Fatman and Tac14son may very well go to prison, but not because of the law. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Originally Posted By pcsutton:
At what point in the video does the father point his gun at the lunatic? I must have missed it. Having a gun in your hand at low ready is not 'pointing it at' someone. In fact, the lunatic expressly asked that the father point the gun at him so they could get it on video for the cops. If the father obliged, I missed it. OrangeRage was completely out of control and completely wrong. Fatman and Tac14son may very well go to prison, but not because of the law. Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:05:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By just-mike:
Can't get attacked if you're not there. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:05:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
You didn't miss anything. People in this thread are imagining all kinds of actions that never occurred. OrangeRage was completely out of control and completely wrong. Fatman and Tac14son may very well go to prison, but not because of the law. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:06:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buddyballs79:
Nothing wrong with walking away. I dont believe I said or implied there was? Guy in orange shirt clearly should have walked away but the duo team I dont see how they just turn their backs to a guy threatening to kill them and simply walk home. No way in hell crazy dude just lets them walk. Cover your retreat? That's absolutely ridiculous lol. If you're in such danger that you need a covered retreat it's too dangerous to attempt one. Sometimes violence is the only answer and the only option you have. It get it's hard these days for the pacifists to accept that though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buddyballs79:
Originally Posted By ske714:
Originally Posted By buddyballs79:
Not exactly a good shoot by any means but no way I could convict the father or the son. I dont see a clear exit from that situation and orange shirt was clearly dangerous. A fucked up way to die over a damn dumpster. Guy in orange shirt clearly should have walked away but the duo team I dont see how they just turn their backs to a guy threatening to kill them and simply walk home. No way in hell crazy dude just lets them walk. Cover your retreat? That's absolutely ridiculous lol. If you're in such danger that you need a covered retreat it's too dangerous to attempt one. Sometimes violence is the only answer and the only option you have. It get it's hard these days for the pacifists to accept that though. They weren't in enough danger to not taunt the dead guy and escalate the situation from their words. Some of us are smart enough to know that you can remove yourself from a situation without shooting someone, being arrested, and going to trial and basically ruining yourself financially or losing your freedoms. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:08:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: texasbagman]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb: Can you expound on this please? Why would they be going to prison if they didn't break a law and got convicted on it? Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. Just look at the comments in this thread. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:10:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich:
You need to stop making up shit. The mattress was already out of the trashcan when the video started. You literally don't know whether or not father and son took it out, whether or not they forced the deceased to take it out, or whether or not the deceased took it out voluntarily before any guns were drawn. Again, you need to stop making shit up. We have no idea that the father and son confronted the deceased. The video starts after the argument had already begun. It could have just as easily have started by the father taking the mattress out of the dumpster and the deceased driving up with his wife and brother and the deceased getting out and confronting the dad. No, he doesn't - especially not after saying he was going to take the gun away from the old man and shoot him in the head with it and that he was dead and his son was dead. PRIOR TO any gun being pointed at him. Please stay in New Jersey and stay the fuck out of Texas. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:12:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
The apparent inability, of a large number of posters in this thread, to discern what they actually saw in the video and conflate it with the other available information...is just fucking disheartening. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:14:37 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
Can you expound on this please? Why would they be going to prison if they didn't break a law and got convicted on it? Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. They haven't even had a trial yet. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:14:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buddyballs79:
Nothing wrong with walking away. I dont believe I said or implied there was? Guy in orange shirt clearly should have walked away but the duo team I dont see how they just turn their backs to a guy threatening to kill them and simply walk home. No way in hell crazy dude just lets them walk. Cover your retreat? That's absolutely ridiculous lol. If you're in such danger that you need a covered retreat it's too dangerous to attempt one. Sometimes violence is the only answer and the only option you have. It get it's hard these days for the pacifists to accept that though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By buddyballs79:
Originally Posted By ske714:
Originally Posted By buddyballs79:
Not exactly a good shoot by any means but no way I could convict the father or the son. I dont see a clear exit from that situation and orange shirt was clearly dangerous. A fucked up way to die over a damn dumpster. Guy in orange shirt clearly should have walked away but the duo team I dont see how they just turn their backs to a guy threatening to kill them and simply walk home. No way in hell crazy dude just lets them walk. Cover your retreat? That's absolutely ridiculous lol. If you're in such danger that you need a covered retreat it's too dangerous to attempt one. Sometimes violence is the only answer and the only option you have. It get it's hard these days for the pacifists to accept that though. Do you consider everyone without a desire to kill someone a pacifist? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:15:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Because a Jury trial, while being a decent system, can and do get it wrong. The "optics" of this look bad. Get a jury loaded with liberals and play the disparity of force nonsense and the unarmed daddy angle and it will not matter that the father/son were completely within the law. Just look at the comments in this thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Originally Posted By 40xb: Can you expound on this please? Why would they be going to prison if they didn't break a law and got convicted on it? Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. Just look at the comments in this thread. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:16:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Where in the name of Darwin did you get the idea they are going to prison? They haven't even had a trial yet. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:17:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Where in the name of Darwin did you get the idea they are going to prison? They haven't even had a trial yet. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:18:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
A jury may very well conclude that the killing fatsos provoked ragecorpse, so no self defense. Wouldn't bet money either way since local people seem to see this as a pretty sensible Saturday morning in the backyard. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:20:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Because a Jury trial, while being a decent system, can and do get it wrong. The "optics" of this look bad. Get a jury loaded with liberals and play the disparity of force nonsense and the unarmed daddy angle and it will not matter that the father/son were completely within the law. Just look at the comments in this thread. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:21:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kiran04:
The two guys with guns may have been total and utter morons, but they weren't the ones who escalated the situation. The guns were out already. Everyone knew the score, but captain A-hole in the bright orange shirt just couldn't control himself. The other guy repeated, "Back off" over and over again, even while captain A-hole threatened to kill him multiple times. It wasn't until captain A-hole went for a weapon of his own and came at the gunmen that he got turned into swiss cheese. What a stupid, stupid, stupid move. That was more like suicide by red neck. And his dumbass wife. "You're not gonna kill my husband." Uhm... yeah... |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:21:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
I will walk backwards. I would rather be in a strong defensive position, like my home, rather than standing out in the open while someone goes to retrieve weapons. As for letting them out of your sight, unless you are going to follow them on the their property & into their home or hold them at gun point to which you better be willing and legally able to shoot them, you don't have a choice in the matter and you paint yourself into a corner that you may not be able to get out of. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
You know the more I think about this situation the more I think the Father and Son wanted to either "get it on" or were to damn stupid to understand what position they were in. I understand SYG and all that. Even though it is legal to stand where you are at and defend yourself that doesn't mean it is the smarter thing to do. Had they just backed up and covered each other until they got back to their home and called the police for the raving lunatic outside they wouldn't be in jail for murder charges. Both parties seemed to be in mutual combat mode, they were both instigating and taunting, one party just happened to bring a stick to a gun fight because he himself was a moron as well. As for letting them out of your sight, unless you are going to follow them on the their property & into their home or hold them at gun point to which you better be willing and legally able to shoot them, you don't have a choice in the matter and you paint yourself into a corner that you may not be able to get out of. That is if my only other choice is to lead them to my family. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:22:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: A lot of New Jersey types posting in this thread. This shoot went down in Abilene, TX. Not exactly a bastion of liberalism. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:23:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Because a Jury trial, while being a decent system, can and do get it wrong. The "optics" of this look bad. Get a jury loaded with liberals and play the disparity of force nonsense and the unarmed daddy angle and it will not matter that the father/son were completely within the law. Just look at the comments in this thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Originally Posted By 40xb: Can you expound on this please? Why would they be going to prison if they didn't break a law and got convicted on it? Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. Just look at the comments in this thread. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:24:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Where in the name of Darwin did you get the idea they are going to prison? They haven't even had a trial yet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
Can you expound on this please? Why would they be going to prison if they didn't break a law and got convicted on it? Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. They haven't even had a trial yet. 
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ARM
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:24:50 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drugmanrx:
I'd probably nullify if i was on the jury. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:24:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
They have been charged with Murder. Usually in a self defense shooting in Texas no charges are filed until a Grand Jury looks over the case. So the city of Abilene has already decided which direction it wants to go. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:25:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
They also set their bond for 'murder' at 25k each. Curiouser and curiouser, no? |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:25:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
I'm guessing that the mailman's testimony and the dead guy's facebook rant, coupled with his bitches' admission that he had major anger issues, would pretty much negate the concept that he needed provocation. edit I think Florida had some exceptions regarding provocation when I read them few days ago |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:26:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
I was asking him why he thought they would go to prison. 
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:26:41 AM EDT
[#41]
The AKFiles thread is better on this.
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:27:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pcsutton:
Can't put your trash in the dumpster if the lunatic next door fills it up with prohibited items either. These guys may walk, or they may not. Either way, I don't care. But you can't deny Life for them has certainly hit a rough patch. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:27:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
I was asking him why he thought they would go to prison. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 40xb:
Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
Can you expound on this please? Why would they be going to prison if they didn't break a law and got convicted on it? Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. They haven't even had a trial yet. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:29:01 AM EDT
[#44]
How much sleep do you think the pear shaped people got last night ?
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:29:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
the Prosecutor dreams of a big house In the suburbs of Dallas in 10 years? DA wants to be a Mayor? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
Can you expound on this please? Why would they be going to prison if they didn't break a law and got convicted on it? Keep in mind I am not saying they did break any specific TX law. I am just wondering how they are gonna be put in prison if they didn't break a law. They haven't even had a trial yet. We will see. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:31:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
If you have kids and family in the house it might be a bad idea, especially if the house is a trailer. If a fellow has threatened to murder me, and the other one is going to get the guns to do so, I am keeping the one in front of me right where I can see him and my buddy watchin the other guy. That is if my only other choice is to lead them to my family. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Originally Posted By 40xb:
You know the more I think about this situation the more I think the Father and Son wanted to either "get it on" or were to damn stupid to understand what position they were in. I understand SYG and all that. Even though it is legal to stand where you are at and defend yourself that doesn't mean it is the smarter thing to do. Had they just backed up and covered each other until they got back to their home and called the police for the raving lunatic outside they wouldn't be in jail for murder charges. Both parties seemed to be in mutual combat mode, they were both instigating and taunting, one party just happened to bring a stick to a gun fight because he himself was a moron as well. As for letting them out of your sight, unless you are going to follow them on the their property & into their home or hold them at gun point to which you better be willing and legally able to shoot them, you don't have a choice in the matter and you paint yourself into a corner that you may not be able to get out of. That is if my only other choice is to lead them to my family. Your buddy isn't going to watch the other guy if he goes into a house to retrieve a unknown, to you, weapon. He could go into the house, grab a rifle, go out the back out of your buddy's view and ambush all of you. I am not saying it is a great situation either way but standing out in the open street with guns drawn and talking shit is stupid. At least take some cover/concealment if available , stop instigating/taunting, and wait for the police to get there and handle the mental guy. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:33:17 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aimless:
The statute says you can't claim stand your ground if the victim was provoked. It's not conditioned on the victim's past behavior or anger issues. (I only read the statute and haven't looked at the case law). The son's words and actions might be considered to be provocation but realistically they were in response to the lunatics tantrum. It will be interesting to see how this plays out...if it makes it to court. That, I have my doubts about. |
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:36:51 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By just-mike:
I can only speak for myself, but I'd like to think my life is worth more than some trash. These guys may walk, or they may not. Either way, I don't care. But you can't deny Life for them has certainly hit a rough patch. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:36:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Agreed, but not really surprising. You can see it quite often in threads like this. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By texasbagman:
Originally Posted By pcsutton:
The apparent inability, of a large number of posters in this thread, to discern what they actually saw in the video and conflate it with the other available information...is just fucking disheartening. Goes to show the subliminal influence the constant bombardment of the left has on the consciousness of people that consider themselves conservative, or at the very least "independent." Very disappointed in what should be considered allies. 
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2018 11:38:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pike]
[#50]
According to the UK Daily Mail, Orange shirt was the one bossing the Elder Pear around trying to force him to put the mattress BACK in the trashcan [which is against published Abilene solid waste rules] and that is when the elder pear first pulled his pistol.
"Howard [orange] then told Miller to put the mattress back into the dumpster. Miller [Elder Pear] refused, then added some foul language. 'That’s when John (Miller) pulled a pistol out of his shorts,' she [deceased's fiance] said." UK Daily Mail |
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