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Posted: 8/18/2022 1:08:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762:   I just got a look at the numbers for this year... For clarification, I have two adjoining rooms, and 18 desks with 4 chairs at a center table in my 2D room. This is where most of my regular classes meet. So, 22 seats if we crowd it up. During the day, I teach a regular section of Art 1(x3), Art 2, and Vocational Art(x2), and have Art 3,4, & 5 sections along with each. Those are advanced students, many of which will work on this years projects. The 3,4, &5 sections meet in the 3D room next door, and work mostly independently. I pop back and fourth between classrooms, and of course our work area, and the hallway where the build usually takes place. My numbers for this year.... 159  Broken down through the day.... 18 per hour used to be the max number......or around 108 total..  23- 1st hour 28-2nd hour 23-3rd hour 30-4th hour 25-5th hour 30-7th hour It's going to be crowded.  THAT is the best vote of confidence in a high school teacher I've ever seen. Congratulations. Would be interesting to know how many of your students are also in welding, robotics, shop, etc. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 1:26:23 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/18/2022 3:00:29 PM EDT
[#3]
OST.
With so many awesome aircraft to choose from, and having just finished up reading the F22 thread, it might make sense to do the big aircraft as the locally significant C130 and do smaller models or paintings of the various historic aircraft though the years. https://www.fs.usda.gov/managing-land/fire/planes  Cold Missouri Waters - Cry Cry Cry |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 3:09:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: elcope]
[#4]
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Posted: 8/18/2022 4:26:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Here are some photos I found on-line of Hawkins & Powers in Greybull.
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Posted: 8/18/2022 4:46:42 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 8/18/2022 5:33:11 PM EDT
[#7]
All those abandoned planes, rusting away in the harsh sun, left to rot, what a shame.
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Posted: 8/18/2022 5:48:35 PM EDT
[#8]
There are quite a few C-130 airframes sitting in the bone yard.
I forgot to grab those.   
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Posted: 8/18/2022 5:57:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Update 8/18/22
I ordered a B-26 model and a C-130 model to get us started. The CL-415 models are harder to find than my first searches suggested, at least from my school computer. 100Hobbies.com won't load there. I may order one of those from my phone tomorrow. I also ordered a couple sets of 4" action figures(set of 5 and 6). We will have to paint them to look like Hotshots, but they should work. They are posable. I also ordered 6, 12" posable action figures that we will use as our Smokejumpers. Some may end up being posed on the ground in the background. This should give us a good start. With some brainstorming and more detailed conversations about the compositional layout of the display, we can get going on the landscape tiers in the room. |
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Posted: 8/18/2022 8:29:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Guns, you have an entire new class of freshmen. Why not make living art, just hang freshmen @ varying altitudes, take them down @ lunch, put the next shift up there? Even the screams would be authentic.
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Posted: 8/18/2022 9:55:20 PM EDT
[#11]
In for another great project! And thank you for the Nora update. Great to hear she is kicking ass, even with the few difficulties, because we remember her prognosis wasn't great at first. She definitely cowgirl'd up!
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Posted: 8/19/2022 3:01:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Guns, you have an entire new class of freshmen. Why not make living art, just hang freshmen @ varying altitudes, take them down @ lunch, put the next shift up there? Even the screams would be authentic.
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Posted: 8/19/2022 3:03:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seiran: In for another great project! And thank you for the Nora update. Great to hear she is kicking ass, even with the few difficulties, because we remember her prognosis wasn't great at first. She definitely cowgirl'd up! I'm hoping she pops in soon. I'll tell her about everyone's comments and that they are thinking about her. 
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Posted: 8/19/2022 3:08:28 PM EDT
[#14]
The area we are working in this year, has a 32+ year teacher neighboring it. He was very excited to have a new display going in across from him. It was nice to see that kind of support, even though I know the chaos and noise is going to be very annoying. What really surprised me was his wife, who also works in the building, came to me today giddy with excitement over the whole thing. She said they both were thrilled to have it going in there. She loved the idea and topics.
I'ts really nice to have that kind of support from your co-workers, when you know they know how annoying the process can be over the whole year. 
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Posted: 8/19/2022 3:49:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: The area we are working in this year, has a 32+ year teacher neighboring it. He was very excited to have a new display going in across from him. It was nice to see that kind of support, even though I know the chaos and noise is going to be very annoying. What really surprised me was his wife, who also works in the building, came to me today giddy with excitement over the whole thing. She said they both were thrilled to have it going in there. She loved the idea and topics. I'ts really nice to have that kind of support from your co-workers, when you know they know how annoying the process can be over the whole year. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 4:04:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoeJeeps]
[#16]
I knew the global supertanker had arrived at one of the fires I was on when the port-a-potty I was in began to shake. That gets my vote.
 ETA: As somebody that was on the ground I can tell you my crews were most enamored with the big jets and the superscoopers. They were special...not something you saw at every fire. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 4:12:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: The Cl-215 or the newer Cl-415s have been my some of my favorite airplanes for years. Neat look and function. But I don’t think they get much use here in the USA unlike in Europe. How can you beat refilling with water as many times as you’ve got avgas to fly? Pretty sure I saw them working out of Buffalo Bill reservoir a few years back when there was a fire up the South Fork of the Shoshone. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 4:13:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: The Cl-215 or the newer Cl-415s have been my some of my favorite airplanes for years. Neat look and function. But I don’t think they get much use here in the USA unlike in Europe. How can you beat refilling with water as many times as you’ve got avgas to fly? That company (Bridger Aerospace) doing those drops here is also a Montana based company. https://leaderadvertiser.com/news/2022/aug/18/montana-company-helps-fight-elmo-fire-above/ |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2022 4:17:26 PM EDT
[#20]
I like the B-25 or B-24 option.
I also saw a crop duster type plane [Air Tractor] being used as a 'water bomber'. There is a video of it filling on the go off the coast of Spain. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2022 4:18:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: I'm starting to run out of room in my drawer.....lol. We have to do something other than gray this year. I am "gray man," and I'm kind of tired of it.....lol. Firefighter blue for the t-shirt |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 4:24:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SperlingPE: Firefighter blue for the t-shirt Or USFS firefighter yellow. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 4:29:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SperlingPE: I like the B-25 or B-24 option. I also saw a crop duster type plane [Air Tractor] being used as a 'water bomber'. There is a video of it filling on the go off the coast of Spain. Personal story.... My wife's biological father died when she was 6. He and my MIL owned and operated a cropdusting business in Yuma. Whe working one day, he and his spotter watched a vehicle drive into a canal next to where they were working. He landed and they went in to get the people out. He and the illegal, who was believed to be drunk, were swept into a drain and drowned. I believe one of the passengers was rescued. There is a national award in his name that is awarded every year by the crop dusting pilots association . Not sure what the proper name is. My MIL sold the buisness(was taken advantage of by her "friends") and she ended up marrying my FIL, who was her 1st husband's best friend. A small air tractor will definitely make it into the composition.
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Posted: 8/19/2022 6:21:50 PM EDT
[#24]
The iconic air tanker is the Canadair CL 215
 Attached FileFor smoke jumper background get your class to read Maclean’s Young Men And Fire |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 6:24:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RHR_12]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JQ66: The Cl-215 or the newer Cl-415s have been my some of my favorite airplanes for years. Neat look and function. But I don’t think they get much use here in the USA unlike in Europe. How can you beat refilling with water as many times as you’ve got avgas to fly? Soon I would like to finally start building an RC model of one So the CL-215/414 has several plan designs for RC models already available. Some free. And decent sized too There are plans to build a Martin Mars as well. I think the ws for that model is over 10’. Some of the land based water bombers the options for RC plans/kits is more limited except for the C-130. The past two summers they’ve been using them a lot in Arizona. They’ve stationed them at Falcon Field in Mesa. You should have a Kaman K max doing a drop. Just because they’re so funky and look like they shouldn’t work.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 7:41:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Use both old and new, taking a hint from the Ghost Of Kyiv - build the half model of the Global Supertanker, with a ghostly B-24 slurry bomber right behind her, the past watching over the future, like modern day smokejumpers on the ground, and the Granite 19 watching over them from the walls. Just a thought.
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Posted: 8/19/2022 8:11:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RHR_12]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armoredman: Use both old and new, taking a hint from the Ghost Of Kyiv - build the half model of the Global Supertanker, with a ghostly B-24 slurry bomber right behind her, the past watching over the future, like modern day smokejumpers on the ground, and the Granite 19 watching over them from the walls. Just a thought. I think a tribute to the granite mountain hotshots would be amazing. Also, here’s some pictures of firefighting aircraft I took this summer and last.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 8:11:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armoredman: Use both old and new, taking a hint from the Ghost Of Kyiv - build the half model of the Global Supertanker, with a ghostly B-24 slurry bomber right behind her, the past watching over the future, like modern day smokejumpers on the ground, and the Granite 19 watching over them from the walls. Just a thought. That's dope. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 9:49:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Originally Posted By backbencher: Guns, you have an entire new class of freshmen. Why not make living art, just hang freshmen @ varying altitudes, take them down @ lunch, put the next shift up there? Even the screams would be authentic. One of the bonus questions on my high school physics exam was a multiple choice question about radiation protection. You had a choice of various materials in various thicknesses. The answer was Freshmen.
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Posted: 8/19/2022 9:51:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#30]
Guns, what if you took a page from the Sikorsky exhibit - A flak damaged B-24 fending off attacking German fighters on one side, one engine smoking, the other side a brightly painted fire bomber about to drop retardant instead of bombs?
ETA: The Ploesti raid would be perfect. One one mission the aircraft creates fire, and on a much later mission it puts out fires. So you can have fire on the landscape below, one side the refineries of Ploesti, the other side the blank, flat, grasslands of Wyoming. Won't take yer freshmen any time to paint that. The first Texas Aggie to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor died in the Ploesti raid. https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/lloyd-herbert-pete-hughes For conspicuous gallantry in action and intrepidity at risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. On 1 August 1943, 2d Lt. Hughes served in the capacity of pilot of a heavy bombardment aircraft participating in a long and hazardous minimum-altitude attack against the Axis oil refineries of Ploesti, Rumania, launched from the northern shores of Africa. Flying in the last formation to attack the target, he arrived in the target area after previous flights had thoroughly alerted the enemy defenses. Approaching the target through intense and accurate antiaircraft fire and dense balloon barrages at dangerously low altitude, his plane received several direct hits from both large and small caliber antiaircraft guns which seriously damaged his aircraft, causing sheets of escaping gasoline to stream from the bomb bay and from the left wing. This damage was inflicted at a time prior to reaching the target when 2d Lt. Hughes could have made a forced landing in any of the grain fields readily available at the time. The target area was blazing with burning oil tanks and damaged refinery installations from which flames leaped high above the bombing level of the formation. With full knowledge of the consequences of entering this blazing inferno when his airplane was profusely leaking gasoline in two separate locations, 2d Lt. Hughes, motivated only by his high conception of duty which called for the destruction of his assigned target at any cost, did not elect to make a forced landing or turn back from the attack. Instead, rather than jeopardize the formation and the success of the attack, he unhesitatingly entered the blazing area and dropped his bomb load with great precision. After successfully bombing the objective, his aircraft emerged from the conflagration with the left wing aflame. Only then did he attempt a forced landing, but because of the advanced stage of the fire enveloping his aircraft the plane crashed and was consumed. By 2d Lt. Hughes' heroic decision to complete his mission regardless of the consequences, in utter disregard of his own life, and by his gallant and valorous execution of this decision, he has rendered a service to our country in the defeat of our enemies which will everlastingly be outstanding in the annals of our nation's history. |
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:22:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armoredman: Use both old and new, taking a hint from the Ghost Of Kyiv - build the half model of the Global Supertanker, with a ghostly B-24 slurry bomber right behind her, the past watching over the future, like modern day smokejumpers on the ground, and the Granite 19 watching over them from the walls. Just a thought. Not gonna lie. This put a lump in my throat. I like the concept. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 11:26:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Years ago, about a month after Hurricane Katrina, the power started coming on in Biloxi and Gulfport. Well, not everyone was home when it did and there were quite a few house fires. We had a Montana crew with a MI-8 Hip and dipping bucket staying at Trent Lott Airport in Moss Point. Which was also were our dropzone was at. They'd hang with us on weekends cause our snack bar lady was there, and sleep there during the week because we had cover, bathrooms, and showers.
We asked them where they'd get water when they needed to make a drop, they replied,"anywhere we want, swimming pools, rivers, bays. We always asked every weekend for a ride to about 4K but always got turned down. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 2:37:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mass-Length-Time: Cal Fire uses OV-10s in that role (amongst others). https://fireaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/CaTripSony-271-OV-10D-sm.jpg https://www.fire.ca.gov/media/kkfd4s40/ov-10-2020-1.pdf Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mass-Length-Time: Originally Posted By UV18: Exactly. A marker plane will show the tankers exactly where to drop the water. They will have a smoke emitter to mark the area where the retardant or water needs to be dropped. We ran a King Air for it but a large variety of aircraft are now used. Cal Fire uses OV-10s in that role (amongst others). https://fireaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/CaTripSony-271-OV-10D-sm.jpg https://www.fire.ca.gov/media/kkfd4s40/ov-10-2020-1.pdf My SO's company has run the fixed wing side of Cal Fire for years, some very dedicated and knowledgeable folks doing good things. |
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Posted: 8/20/2022 3:47:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: limaxray]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Guns, what if you took a page from the Sikorsky exhibit - A flak damaged B-24 fending off attacking German fighters on one side, one engine smoking, the other side a brightly painted fire bomber about to drop retardant instead of bombs? ETA: The Ploesti raid would be perfect. One one mission the aircraft creates fire, and on a much later mission it puts out fires. So you can have fire on the landscape below, one side the refineries of Ploesti, the other side the blank, flat, grasslands of Wyoming. Won't take yer freshmen any time to paint that. The first Texas Aggie to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor died in the Ploesti raid. https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/lloyd-herbert-pete-hughes The 90th Bomb Group (Jolly Rogers) in WWII flew B24s. Earned two distinguished unit citations and the Philippine Presidential Unit Citation for its combat service in China, Netherlands East Indies, New Guinea, the Bismarck Archipelago (specifically the Battle of the Bismarck Sea), the Western Pacific, Leyte, and Luzon. After the war it was a B29 unit briefly, then deactivated for three years before reactivating as the 90th Missile Wing at FE Warren AFB, Cheyenne WY. If you're going to go this route, the WWII version needs some Jolly Roger nose art. |
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Posted: 8/21/2022 6:17:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armoredman: Use both old and new, taking a hint from the Ghost Of Kyiv - build the half model of the Global Supertanker, with a ghostly B-24 slurry bomber right behind her, the past watching over the future, like modern day smokejumpers on the ground, and the Granite 19 watching over them from the walls. Just a thought. Some great ideas there. Thank you. I will update the idea list on the board tomorrow.
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Posted: 8/21/2022 6:20:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RHR_12: I think a tribute to the granite mountain hotshots would be amazing. Also, here’s some pictures of firefighting aircraft I took this summer and last. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/420759/FBCE5864-E7A8-4CE3-8409-D61F3A6FDAE8_jpe-2495491.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/420759/B0BAA3D3-2CEE-41CA-8834-68D9233EDD4F_jpe-2495492.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/420759/2DDD0CBA-FA41-45F3-B38B-2B141466FCFB_jpe-2495493.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/420759/55E80A39-DA32-4406-BC72-13C85340F24D_jpe-2495497.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/420759/19A79AD2-CA1A-41FC-BE11-CDA12C528A46_jpe-2495500.JPG Thanks for posting the picture. Those are great! Yeah, the Granite Mountain Hot Shots tribute is an excellent idea. I will see how we might work that in. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:06:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Update 8/22
Students show up tomorrow. I think I'm as ready as I can be. We will be planning the composition this first week, as there are several schedule interruptions. Without models and a CAD drawing, we will work on the landscape tiers and the smokejumpers cloud to get started. We had a great donation come in today. A local arfcommer used to be on the fire dept. These will help to from up part of the display with real gear. We may have to create a life size hot shot crew member to dress and display these. Not sure yet. I will have to discuss with the students, and see if there is room for that.  
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:30:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Now THAT'S awesome!
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:35:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Update 8/22 Students show up tomorrow. I think I'm as ready as I can be. We will be planning the composition this first week, as there are several schedule interruptions. Without models and a CAD drawing, we will work on the landscape tiers and the smokejumpers cloud to get started. We had a great donation come in today. A local arfcommer used to be on the fire dept. These will help to from up part of the display with real gear. We may have to create a life size hot shot crew member to dress and display these. Not sure yet. I will have to discuss with the students, and see if there is room for that. https://i.imgur.com/Ua7z6B8.jpg https://i.imgur.com/uyRZIoK.jpg That needs to go on a Smokey the Bear mount. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:45:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guns762: Update 8/22 Students show up tomorrow. I think I'm as ready as I can be. We will be planning the composition this first week, as there are several schedule interruptions. Without models and a CAD drawing, we will work on the landscape tiers and the smokejumpers cloud to get started. We had a great donation come in today. A local arfcommer used to be on the fire dept. These will help to from up part of the display with real gear. We may have to create a life size hot shot crew member to dress and display these. Not sure yet. I will have to discuss with the students, and see if there is room for that. https://i.imgur.com/Ua7z6B8.jpg https://i.imgur.com/uyRZIoK.jpg The tallest freshman. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:46:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The tallest freshman. Suspended from the ceiling? |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:48:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: That needs to go on a Smokey the Bear mount. I looked twice at our baby black bear in the locomotive display today. 
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:49:18 PM EDT
[#43]
P2v's are where it's at. They are still one of my favorite heavy air tankers I have never worked with.
Get ahold of Neptune aviation in Missoula if you need anything. They had one of the last large fleets before they were retired a few years ago. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 8:50:11 PM EDT
[#44]
As a former wildland firefighter, I can’t wait.
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Posted: 8/22/2022 9:15:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Martlet: As a former wildland firefighter, I can’t wait. You have my respect sir - after firefighting training at Treasure Island in 1987 I realized I want to be the one LEAVING the fire. However, this does remind me that my organization has a respected firefighting crew, too, the Florence Complex inmate wildland fire crew. Unfortunately many of them cannot find firefighting jobs when they get out due to being ex-cons. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2022 9:41:23 PM EDT
[#46]
So happy to see a new thread from you Guns, these projects are always my favorite.
Super pleased to hear that Nora is doing well. Now time to gripe - I am seeing three pages of discussions about what plane would be the best to go with and not one person has asked which has the most number of rivets.
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Posted: 8/22/2022 9:42:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manduck: So happy to see a new thread from you Guns, these projects are always my favorite. Super pleased to hear that Nora is doing well. Now time to gripe - I am seeing three pages of discussions about what plane would be the best to go with and not one person has asked which has the most number of rivets.  Well done, sir! Bravo Zulu!
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Posted: 8/22/2022 9:51:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Subbed and ready for a shirt.
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Posted: 8/22/2022 10:11:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manduck: So happy to see a new thread from you Guns, these projects are always my favorite. Super pleased to hear that Nora is doing well. Now time to gripe - I am seeing three pages of discussions about what plane would be the best to go with and not one person has asked which has the most number of rivets. Glad you found the thread. Initial calculations on a 1:6 scale C-130 would be 16.3ft long, almost 2ft tall fuselage and from center out to tip of wing, 11ft and some change. That's lots of rivets. The 12" action figures are also 1:6. The room is 16ft and some change. |
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Posted: 8/23/2022 10:09:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#50]
Day 1, Here we go!
  
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