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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:02:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Golds up
Stocks up Bitcoins up Housings hp Inflation baby! |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:03:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BTC is now about 60% of its ATH. I avoid that level of volatility. Michael Saylor just bought 600 mil more at basically today's price. He was up a Billion before he bought Do you know everything happening?. ATH is meant to be broken . Well see maybe you're right. Maybe it will hit 100k in 2024. Time will tell. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Once bitten, twice shy.
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:06:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Michael Saylor just bought 600 mil more at basically today's price. He was up a Billion before he bought Do you know everything happening?. ATH is meant to be broken . Well see maybe you're right. Maybe it will hit 100k in 2024. Time will tell. Maybe! I make no predictions. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:25:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:26:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Come on, $50/oz for silver.
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:26:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) How? |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:28:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryI wonder how many people believe that... |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:35:01 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:37:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) How? By being accepted as money globally. Fiat has a finite lifespan because every single government has destroyed their currency. It's a lot harder to destroy gold by inflating it. Sure, it gets mined albeit at a slow pace...probably keeps up with population growth, not sure on the exact numbers. It's kinda like Bitcoi , except government can more easily ban bitcoin if it threatens their central banks too much. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:39:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By being accepted as money globally. Fiat has a finite lifespan because every single government has destroyed their currency. It's a lot harder to destroy gold by inflating it. Sure, it gets mined albeit at a slow pace...probably keeps up with population growth, not sure on the exact numbers. It's kinda like Bitcoi , except government can more easily ban bitcoin if it threatens their central banks too much. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) How? By being accepted as money globally. Fiat has a finite lifespan because every single government has destroyed their currency. It's a lot harder to destroy gold by inflating it. Sure, it gets mined albeit at a slow pace...probably keeps up with population growth, not sure on the exact numbers. It's kinda like Bitcoi , except government can more easily ban bitcoin if it threatens their central banks too much. Why would it be accepted globally post fiat currency fall? Who would govern the price? What would global trade be? What’s your plan to trade it? Do you posses it currently? How do you travel with it? Real questions here. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:47:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) So your going to scrape off pieces of gold to buy some bread? |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:49:53 PM EDT
[#13]
 Bring The Gold |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:50:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Yet somehow my gold mining company stock is stagnant…
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:51:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So is this a good thing or a bad thing? It suggests that COMEX is losing control via their sale of paper gold. Rising metal prices indicate a lack of public faith in its fiat currency. Keeping metals artificially low is important for perception management. If people didn't think it was a good store of value, they would keep their fiat. This is especially important in light of brrrrrrrrrrr! and rising inflation. It can also be because outside of the United States the people of other nation pay a higher premium that we would. Remember Putin put a bottom on gold prices and if Comex drives it too low, the Russian Central Bank will step in to buy (much like Trump did when oil was sub zero). China has a gold trade note used for oil trade settlement and redeemable for physical metal at the Shanghai Gold Exchange. Guess who the biggest buyers of gold are this year? |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:52:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I drunk bought my wife a 1oz gold eagle 2 weeks ago. Is she rich? She'll divorce you now. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:55:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would it be accepted globally post fiat currency fall? Who would govern the price? What would global trade be? What’s your plan to trade it? Do you posses it currently? How do you travel with it? Real questions here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) How? By being accepted as money globally. Fiat has a finite lifespan because every single government has destroyed their currency. It's a lot harder to destroy gold by inflating it. Sure, it gets mined albeit at a slow pace...probably keeps up with population growth, not sure on the exact numbers. It's kinda like Bitcoi , except government can more easily ban bitcoin if it threatens their central banks too much. Why would it be accepted globally post fiat currency fall? Who would govern the price? What would global trade be? What’s your plan to trade it? Do you posses it currently? How do you travel with it? Real questions here. Because it's already accepted *now*. Price would be based on the free market value (probably more of a free market than fiat is now since the printing press goes brrrrrrr). Global trade would also be based on free markets. Gold would just be one of the things that would be part of that trading worldwide. I do possess it currently. If I wanted to travel with it, I could since it is a compact storage of value. If our fiat currency dies, all the other fiat currencies will as well. Since gold is a compact storage of value, having a portion of your "wealth" in gold means that you will have a portion of your "wealth" once recovery on the other side of a currency collapse happens. Having property, tools and equipment, guns and ammo, food, water, and other real, tangible items will also be valuable both during and after any currency collapse. One could certainly argue as to when the dollar will ultimately collapse but given the trajectory we are on, it is a certainty. If the trajectory changes dramatically, there is always a chance to stave off disaster. I see no evidence that there is any movement towards changing the trajectory even slightly much less dramatically. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 10:58:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So your going to scrape off pieces of gold to buy some bread? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) So your going to scrape off pieces of gold to buy some bread? No. But, you could use a 1/10oz coin to pay what today's equivalent of $200 would be, though. What many folks are thinking is that gold is more a compact storage of wealth whereas silver is more usable as a currency. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:02:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You didn’t answer my question. You moved the subject. So I’ll ask again: What’s your plan if fiat currencies crash? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: People are starting to understand the lie of fiat currency. POG is on its way to the moon. As opposed to a metal that serves no tangible purpose other than to make jewelry & high conductivity electrical contacts?... As opposed to a fiat currency that may eventually serve no tangible purpose other than to stoke a fire or use as toilet paper?... So, assuming that happens and the fiat currency crashes. What’s your plan for gold? Irresponsible money printing is driving inflation. We all can see the dollar devaluing right before our eyes. Stay hedged. You didn’t answer my question. You moved the subject. So I’ll ask again: What’s your plan if fiat currencies crash? We carry no debt. We also have a well diversified portfolio. Hedged, like I said. Includes precious metals. I don't advocate putting all your eggs in one basket. So there is no pirates chest of gold bars buried in my backyard. Diversification is key. Now if the government is determined to destroy wealth and property, there is not much you can do. And that seems to be what is happening. Vote, if that still works. Doubtful. I'm sure I didn't give you the answer you wanted. But it is what I am doing. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:03:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. But, you could use a 1/10oz coin to pay what today's equivalent of $200 would be, though. What many folks are thinking is that gold is more a compact storage of wealth whereas silver is more usable as a currency. Silver and copper for smaller purchases, where have we seen this before ?  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:07:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know. This is an age old argument that can go on forever. However, it is ironic the USG gold reserves total 8,134 metric tons which is way more than anyone else in the world. Why? 10% skim rule for when the currency collapses? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: People are starting to understand the lie of fiat currency. POG is on its way to the moon. As opposed to a metal that serves no tangible purpose other than to make jewelry & high conductivity electrical contacts?... As opposed to a fiat currency that may eventually serve no tangible purpose other than to stoke a fire or use as toilet paper?... In that^ sort of environment, gold serves me no purpose, unless folks can be fooled into exchanging shavings for goods and services... ...which would serve them no purpose I know. This is an age old argument that can go on forever. However, it is ironic the USG gold reserves total 8,134 metric tons which is way more than anyone else in the world. Why? 10% skim rule for when the currency collapses? Yeah, agreed. Valid enough arguments on both sides of it. We all should put our monies into what we think sre sound investments. Time'll tell who was right... |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:09:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold’s purpose isn’t to shave off a slice to buy a loaf of bread during a crisis. Rather its value is in maintaining some of your wealth to come out on the other side after a crisis like you describe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In that^ sort of environment, gold serves me no purpose, unless folks can be fooled into exchanging shavings for goods and services... ...which would serve them no purpose Gold’s purpose isn’t to shave off a slice to buy a loaf of bread during a crisis. Rather its value is in maintaining some of your wealth to come out on the other side after a crisis like you describe. Understood, but would it have any value on the back side of a happening like that? Nobody knows. Some think it would, others don't. Its a bet as much as picking teams against the spread is... |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:09:59 PM EDT
[#23]
VGPMX
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:10:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cash it in...for USD. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So, assuming that happens and the fiat currency crashes. What’s your plan for gold? Cash it in...for USD.  ...
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:11:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it's already accepted *now*. Price would be based on the free market value (probably more of a free market than fiat is now since the printing press goes brrrrrrr). Global trade would also be based on free markets. Gold would just be one of the things that would be part of that trading worldwide. I do possess it currently. If I wanted to travel with it, I could since it is a compact storage of value. If our fiat currency dies, all the other fiat currencies will as well. Since gold is a compact storage of value, having a portion of your "wealth" in gold means that you will have a portion of your "wealth" once recovery on the other side of a currency collapse happens. Having property, tools and equipment, guns and ammo, food, water, and other real, tangible items will also be valuable both during and after any currency collapse. One could certainly argue as to when the dollar will ultimately collapse but given the trajectory we are on, it is a certainty. If the trajectory changes dramatically, there is always a chance to stave off disaster. I see no evidence that there is any movement towards changing the trajectory even slightly much less dramatically. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) How? By being accepted as money globally. Fiat has a finite lifespan because every single government has destroyed their currency. It's a lot harder to destroy gold by inflating it. Sure, it gets mined albeit at a slow pace...probably keeps up with population growth, not sure on the exact numbers. It's kinda like Bitcoi , except government can more easily ban bitcoin if it threatens their central banks too much. Why would it be accepted globally post fiat currency fall? Who would govern the price? What would global trade be? What’s your plan to trade it? Do you posses it currently? How do you travel with it? Real questions here. Because it's already accepted *now*. Price would be based on the free market value (probably more of a free market than fiat is now since the printing press goes brrrrrrr). Global trade would also be based on free markets. Gold would just be one of the things that would be part of that trading worldwide. I do possess it currently. If I wanted to travel with it, I could since it is a compact storage of value. If our fiat currency dies, all the other fiat currencies will as well. Since gold is a compact storage of value, having a portion of your "wealth" in gold means that you will have a portion of your "wealth" once recovery on the other side of a currency collapse happens. Having property, tools and equipment, guns and ammo, food, water, and other real, tangible items will also be valuable both during and after any currency collapse. One could certainly argue as to when the dollar will ultimately collapse but given the trajectory we are on, it is a certainty. If the trajectory changes dramatically, there is always a chance to stave off disaster. I see no evidence that there is any movement towards changing the trajectory even slightly much less dramatically. It’s accepted now because it’s trade able to a fiat currency. So what you just described is a collapse of the world economic system. Which means there’s no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Let alone what its value is worth going forward. We also have zero clue what, you said “the other side” is - and whether or not gold would be valued at anything. As you would, in the meanwhile, have mass starvation, and a huge population decline in general. My entire point of my questions isn’t to get an answer. It’s to make you think through the process. There is no right answer. You could be correct, gold could be the only thing after some sort of currency collapse. Or, it could be utterly worthless. You don’t know. I don’t know. What I do know, is in the foreseeable future, gold is a terrible investment. And getting any sizable quantity to “store” is fairly foolish. You would be much better off buying land under the current market situations, as they ain’t making more of it. The reality of the global economy right now, other currencies would collapse far before the USD. And we have yet to see that. Velocity of money and all will keep the USD afloat for a while. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:15:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does that mean the U.S. dollar is at an all time low? Bumping that^ post too. Might not be an all time low, but... ... 
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:22:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:23:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Silver and copper for smaller purchases, where have we seen this before ? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48515/20221001_005043_jpg-3046618.JPG @Pointman91 - can you lift up that bottle without it breaking? |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:25:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s accepted now because it’s trade able to a fiat currency. So what you just described is a collapse of the world economic system. Which means there’s no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Let alone what its value is worth going forward. We also have zero clue what, you said “the other side” is - and whether or not gold would be valued at anything. As you would, in the meanwhile, have mass starvation, and a huge population decline in general. My entire point of my questions isn’t to get an answer. It’s to make you think through the process. There is no right answer. You could be correct, gold could be the only thing after some sort of currency collapse. Or, it could be utterly worthless. You don’t know. I don’t know. What I do know, is in the foreseeable future, gold is a terrible investment. And getting any sizable quantity to “store” is fairly foolish. You would be much better off buying land under the current market situations, as they ain’t making more of it. The reality of the global economy right now, other currencies would collapse far before the USD. And we have yet to see that. Velocity of money and all will keep the USD afloat for a while. You think your deed will hold any water if the country collapsed enough to make the dollar disappear? Oh, I think the resultant government just might decide you don't "own" that anymore. All they'd have to do is say so. Or make you pay your taxes...in gold...since they all stockpile that. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:31:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think your deed will hold any water if the country collapsed enough to make the dollar disappear? Oh, I think the resultant government just might decide you don't "own" that anymore. All they'd have to do is say so. Or make you pay your taxes...in gold...since they all stockpile that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s accepted now because it’s trade able to a fiat currency. So what you just described is a collapse of the world economic system. Which means there’s no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Let alone what its value is worth going forward. We also have zero clue what, you said “the other side” is - and whether or not gold would be valued at anything. As you would, in the meanwhile, have mass starvation, and a huge population decline in general. My entire point of my questions isn’t to get an answer. It’s to make you think through the process. There is no right answer. You could be correct, gold could be the only thing after some sort of currency collapse. Or, it could be utterly worthless. You don’t know. I don’t know. What I do know, is in the foreseeable future, gold is a terrible investment. And getting any sizable quantity to “store” is fairly foolish. You would be much better off buying land under the current market situations, as they ain’t making more of it. The reality of the global economy right now, other currencies would collapse far before the USD. And we have yet to see that. Velocity of money and all will keep the USD afloat for a while. You think your deed will hold any water if the country collapsed enough to make the dollar disappear? Oh, I think the resultant government just might decide you don't "own" that anymore. All they'd have to do is say so. Or make you pay your taxes...in gold...since they all stockpile that. Who would be paying for, said government, then, in such a situation? Who would be enforcing this? As you just described raiders. Making random shit up and moving goal posts isn’t a realistic conversation. The (current) government has no methods to do that. They would also have to pay for the enforcement somehow. (Dental plans and all.) The failure of fiat currency is literally an end of the world situation. Plan accordingly. Yes, a deed would have no value. But living in the house, farming the fields, raising your animals and protecting your assets, is essentially the only worse case scenario plan one can have. Or, bail to a more stable state. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:35:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold was $280 in 2000. What would the same amount done in an index fund, say 8% to $1,700 or so? I remember that I thought it was crazy expensive. An older relative said buy gold. I didn't, probably didn't have $280 either tho |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:36:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think your deed will hold any water if the country collapsed enough to make the dollar disappear? Oh, I think the resultant government just might decide you don't "own" that anymore. All they'd have to do is say so. Or make you pay your taxes...in gold...since they all stockpile that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's accepted now because it's trade able to a fiat currency. So what you just described is a collapse of the world economic system. Which means there's no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Let alone what its value is worth going forward. We also have zero clue what, you said "the other side" is - and whether or not gold would be valued at anything. As you would, in the meanwhile, have mass starvation, and a huge population decline in general. My entire point of my questions isn't to get an answer. It's to make you think through the process. There is no right answer. You could be correct, gold could be the only thing after some sort of currency collapse. Or, it could be utterly worthless. You don't know. I don't know. What I do know, is in the foreseeable future, gold is a terrible investment. And getting any sizable quantity to "store" is fairly foolish. You would be much better off buying land under the current market situations, as they ain't making more of it. The reality of the global economy right now, other currencies would collapse far before the USD. And we have yet to see that. Velocity of money and all will keep the USD afloat for a while. You think your deed will hold any water if the country collapsed enough to make the dollar disappear? Oh, I think the resultant government just might decide you don't "own" that anymore. All they'd have to do is say so. Or make you pay your taxes...in gold...since they all stockpile that. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:42:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who would be paying for, said government, then, in such a situation? Who would be enforcing this? As you just described raiders. Making random shit up and moving goal posts isn’t a realistic conversation. The (current) government has no methods to do that. They would also have to pay for the enforcement somehow. (Dental plans and all.) The failure of fiat currency is literally an end of the world situation. Plan accordingly. Yes, a deed would have no value. But living in the house, farming the fields, raising your animals and protecting your assets, is essentially the only worse case scenario plan one can have. Or, bail to a more stable state. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s accepted now because it’s trade able to a fiat currency. So what you just described is a collapse of the world economic system. Which means there’s no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Let alone what its value is worth going forward. We also have zero clue what, you said “the other side” is - and whether or not gold would be valued at anything. As you would, in the meanwhile, have mass starvation, and a huge population decline in general. My entire point of my questions isn’t to get an answer. It’s to make you think through the process. There is no right answer. You could be correct, gold could be the only thing after some sort of currency collapse. Or, it could be utterly worthless. You don’t know. I don’t know. What I do know, is in the foreseeable future, gold is a terrible investment. And getting any sizable quantity to “store” is fairly foolish. You would be much better off buying land under the current market situations, as they ain’t making more of it. The reality of the global economy right now, other currencies would collapse far before the USD. And we have yet to see that. Velocity of money and all will keep the USD afloat for a while. You think your deed will hold any water if the country collapsed enough to make the dollar disappear? Oh, I think the resultant government just might decide you don't "own" that anymore. All they'd have to do is say so. Or make you pay your taxes...in gold...since they all stockpile that. Who would be paying for, said government, then, in such a situation? Who would be enforcing this? As you just described raiders. Making random shit up and moving goal posts isn’t a realistic conversation. The (current) government has no methods to do that. They would also have to pay for the enforcement somehow. (Dental plans and all.) The failure of fiat currency is literally an end of the world situation. Plan accordingly. Yes, a deed would have no value. But living in the house, farming the fields, raising your animals and protecting your assets, is essentially the only worse case scenario plan one can have. Or, bail to a more stable state. Agreed, Lead & Copper would be worth more after SHTF. Especially if in a cartridge! |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:43:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Pointman91 - can you lift up that bottle without it breaking? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Silver and copper for smaller purchases, where have we seen this before ? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48515/20221001_005043_jpg-3046618.JPG @Pointman91 - can you lift up that bottle without it breaking? Yes, lift from the bottom. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:44:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet somehow my gold mining company stock is stagnant… This is because the cost to produce gold is way up as well! You know fuel, acid, cyanide, blasting supplies, equipment parts etc...not to mention the shortage of personal to get the job done. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:45:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Come on, $50/oz for silver. Add a zero and I could get out from under my mortgage.
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:48:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The US government had defaulted on it's debt several times. Did the new currency void land ownership? Nope. Oh, well then, that settles it. It hasn't happened before. I guess we're safe, then. Read a history book. The ONLY question is the timeline to when. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:53:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, well then, that settles it. It hasn't happened before. I guess we're safe, then. Read a history book. The ONLY question is the timeline to when. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The US government had defaulted on it's debt several times. Did the new currency void land ownership? Nope. Oh, well then, that settles it. It hasn't happened before. I guess we're safe, then. Read a history book. The ONLY question is the timeline to when. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:54:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is because the cost to produce gold is way up as well! You know fuel, acid, cyanide, blasting supplies, equipment parts etc...not to mention the shortage of personal to get the job done. I dunno man, this looks pretty good to me…  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:05:39 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Snip Which means there's no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Snip Barring technological changes that allow us to mass produce more gold, I'm inclined to think gold will continue to be valued even if the dollar collapses or our government fails. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:15:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Historically, gold has routinely been returned to as a primary currency and/or store of value as governments and civilizations collapse. Barring technological changes that allow us to mass produce more gold, I'm inclined to think gold will continue to be valued even if the dollar collapses or our government fails. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Snip Which means there's no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Snip Barring technological changes that allow us to mass produce more gold, I'm inclined to think gold will continue to be valued even if the dollar collapses or our government fails. Nothing we can do will change the past, everything we do will change the future. My point is, again, you don’t know, I don’t know. The past (as far as we know) didn’t have near instant global communication, nuclear weapons, computers and a population of billions. And quite frankly, if civilization collapses while I’m alive, I doubt it’s going to be in my life time a new currency that, may or may not be gold based, is widely accepted, would be established. As that’s what you’re all talking about. The total collapse of civilization. If fiat currencies go poof. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:15:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meanwhile, silver is still at like $20, which it's been at for like the last decade. Silver - it's just the free market doing free market shit. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:16:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Don’t forget BTC; ARFCOM hates that, too.
BTC was up, as well. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:20:43 AM EDT
[#44]
One step closer to the world making sense again.
Next is for the crypto tards to go broke. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:22:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s accepted now because it’s trade able to a fiat currency. So what you just described is a collapse of the world economic system. Which means there’s no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Let alone what its value is worth going forward. We also have zero clue what, you said “the other side” is - and whether or not gold would be valued at anything. As you would, in the meanwhile, have mass starvation, and a huge population decline in general. My entire point of my questions isn’t to get an answer. It’s to make you think through the process. There is no right answer. You could be correct, gold could be the only thing after some sort of currency collapse. Or, it could be utterly worthless. You don’t know. I don’t know. What I do know, is in the foreseeable future, gold is a terrible investment. And getting any sizable quantity to “store” is fairly foolish. You would be much better off buying land under the current market situations, as they ain’t making more of it. The reality of the global economy right now, other currencies would collapse far before the USD. And we have yet to see that. Velocity of money and all will keep the USD afloat for a while. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Still a very weak investment compared to a S&P index fund. It's not an investment. It is protection against the guaranteed failure of fiat (non Tony kind) How? By being accepted as money globally. Fiat has a finite lifespan because every single government has destroyed their currency. It's a lot harder to destroy gold by inflating it. Sure, it gets mined albeit at a slow pace...probably keeps up with population growth, not sure on the exact numbers. It's kinda like Bitcoi , except government can more easily ban bitcoin if it threatens their central banks too much. Why would it be accepted globally post fiat currency fall? Who would govern the price? What would global trade be? What’s your plan to trade it? Do you posses it currently? How do you travel with it? Real questions here. Because it's already accepted *now*. Price would be based on the free market value (probably more of a free market than fiat is now since the printing press goes brrrrrrr). Global trade would also be based on free markets. Gold would just be one of the things that would be part of that trading worldwide. I do possess it currently. If I wanted to travel with it, I could since it is a compact storage of value. If our fiat currency dies, all the other fiat currencies will as well. Since gold is a compact storage of value, having a portion of your "wealth" in gold means that you will have a portion of your "wealth" once recovery on the other side of a currency collapse happens. Having property, tools and equipment, guns and ammo, food, water, and other real, tangible items will also be valuable both during and after any currency collapse. One could certainly argue as to when the dollar will ultimately collapse but given the trajectory we are on, it is a certainty. If the trajectory changes dramatically, there is always a chance to stave off disaster. I see no evidence that there is any movement towards changing the trajectory even slightly much less dramatically. It’s accepted now because it’s trade able to a fiat currency. So what you just described is a collapse of the world economic system. Which means there’s no reason to think gold would still be the standard. Let alone what its value is worth going forward. We also have zero clue what, you said “the other side” is - and whether or not gold would be valued at anything. As you would, in the meanwhile, have mass starvation, and a huge population decline in general. My entire point of my questions isn’t to get an answer. It’s to make you think through the process. There is no right answer. You could be correct, gold could be the only thing after some sort of currency collapse. Or, it could be utterly worthless. You don’t know. I don’t know. What I do know, is in the foreseeable future, gold is a terrible investment. And getting any sizable quantity to “store” is fairly foolish. You would be much better off buying land under the current market situations, as they ain’t making more of it. The reality of the global economy right now, other currencies would collapse far before the USD. And we have yet to see that. Velocity of money and all will keep the USD afloat for a while. No, the Saudis accept gold for oil now without conversion to dollars. One other OPEC nation does but I can't remember which. Gold has held value for 5000 years and will continue to do so. One could argue that whether a new "dollar" is created or the world converts to quatloos, there will always be a conversion to gold and back once the collapse has completed and recovery is underway. Either way, gold will always have value in the future. So, yeah, I actually *do* know that gold will have value in the future because it both has had in the past and has industrial uses in the present and future as well. Further, getting a sizable quantity to store is a prudent precaution given our current trajectory (where "sizable" is a matter of opinion and unique to individual circumstances). Some of the smarter financial advisors recommend between 5 and 10% of your wealth portfolio be in PMs. (I'm not there yet but am slowly working towards that.) I, too, mentioned having property and other tangible assets to come out the other side of a currency collapse as a valuable idea if you look at my post you quoted. For the foreseeable future, physical gold isn't a terrible investment. It shouldn't be considered an investment *at all*. It should be a risk mitigation that has intrinsic value in and of itself, much like the land we talk about. Some people "invest" in paper gold ETFs and such and if that's your bag, go for it. It's just not something I'm interested in doing. As Gerald Celente says, "If you can't hold it, you don't own it.". He says that because he got screwed out of his gold being held when MF Global went bust. He's been pretty bitter ever since. As for not seeing other currencies collapsing, both the Zimbabwe "dollar", the Venezuelan bolivar, the Turkish lira, and some others have either already collapsed or are in the process of doing same. So, the fact that most other currencies in the world would collapse before ours is irrelevant. The fact is, ours can collapse and its current trajectory is in that direction. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:25:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, lift from the bottom. Thanks. I heard about those coin filled 5 gallon bottles that broke when picked up by the neck. From the bottom supports the weak point. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:27:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah and at least 10 years ago, some guy was telling me how silver was about to explode. I've had others tell me that since then, too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meanwhile, silver is still at like $20, which it's been at for like the last decade. Silver - it's just the free market doing free market shit. Silver is a little unique in that JPM has been caught manipulating the price multiple times and paid huge fines (but still ended up making a profit on it). So, when the price of a commodity is being deliberately manipulated, true price discovery can't happen. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:28:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know. This is an age old argument that can go on forever. However, it is ironic the USG gold reserves total 8,134 metric tons which is way more than anyone else in the world. Why? 10% skim rule for when the currency collapses? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: People are starting to understand the lie of fiat currency. POG is on its way to the moon. As opposed to a metal that serves no tangible purpose other than to make jewelry & high conductivity electrical contacts?... As opposed to a fiat currency that may eventually serve no tangible purpose other than to stoke a fire or use as toilet paper?... In that^ sort of environment, gold serves me no purpose, unless folks can be fooled into exchanging shavings for goods and services... ...which would serve them no purpose I know. This is an age old argument that can go on forever. However, it is ironic the USG gold reserves total 8,134 metric tons which is way more than anyone else in the world. Why? 10% skim rule for when the currency collapses? That's $573,772,360,000 |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:29:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now calculate with inflation This. OP needs to recalibrate his brain. He’s got it exactly backwards. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 12:31:34 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, well then, that settles it. It hasn't happened before. I guess we're safe, then. Read a history book. The ONLY question is the timeline to when. I have. The US defaulted on the WW I Liberty Bonds (4th Liberty Bonds) which were redeemable in gold. FDR grabbed the gold and instead of paying the bondholders $35 per ounce they were only paid $20.67 or pre-seizure price). Bondholders got fleeced. |
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