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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:11:04 PM EDT
[#1]
OP - “know thyself”. You made the right call.
It definitely ain’t all about rank. You will be able to contribute at a very meaningful level for years to come. We need good men like you. Good luck/DOL! |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:14:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Congrats on your demotion. Good to see you. Cool pics. Moar.
Hows family? Your wife used to fire full auto in az with you right? |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:14:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Do they still do the square dining thing at WOCS?
Congrats, Steve! |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:24:16 PM EDT
[#4]
That dog will hunt.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:26:19 PM EDT
[#5]
If you stay in until W4, you'll be ahead of where you were for retirement as a Maj.
What Branch? |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:46:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Congrats! Sometimes the perks of pay and other stuff just isnt worth it if your past life/job is the core of your soul so to speak. People wonder why I dont try to promote in my job, and its what you said. Its just not for me and I know I would hate life.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 6:49:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Good to see you back!
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Posted: 5/14/2021 7:30:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you're in a machine, ain't nobody looking out for what's good for you except you. Well done man. That means a lot to me. Thank you. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 7:30:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm happy for you, Steve. You know me, we watched The Sand Pebbles a few weeks before we shipped out. Glad to hear you're still doing well. I would never forget! |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 7:48:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hahaha, yeah it sometimes seems that way, right? Here's how it breaks down. And I dont' think any of the former GOs or O6s we have here would disagree with me. The top guys, the Dick Winterses of the world, they are too good to stay in the Army. It's just how it is. The inefficiency, the politics, whatever - they can't handle it. Guys that I was a Captain with have gone on to Harvard, MIT, med school, other agencies, making literally double the money starting out in corporate America. The really terrible guys, they CAN'T stay in. They get in trouble, they lie, they have bad ratings, and they are politely asked to leave. The leadership most of us see in the service are really the mid level guys. The guys who are pretty okay at what they do. And because in my heart I have some officer in me, I drew a powerpoint slide to illustrate https://i.imgur.com/k6ING3ul.jpg I was trying to explain this to some people regarding enlisted personnel in Ranger Regiment and the enlisted personnel that start out there and have long term careers. There are some exceptions, But your top quality personnel do not stay Regiment and become the senior NCOs. The top slice of the high quality density disproportionately become operators, SOF pilots, 11As, 18As, SOF unit emergency physicians and surgeons, etc. Others OGA, civilian careers, college professors, etc. Again, with some exceptions, the senior NCOs are what was left, and are great quality, remaining after much of the greater quality has moved on. There was some amelioration of this up until the mid 1980s or so. With more limited E8 and E9 slots in the Army’s premier unit, and with 11BS instead of 18B guys could pop between group and bn or come from the premier unit to get PSG or 1SG time, etc. All of which is not an issue or an option now. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 7:57:00 PM EDT
[#11]
When I take from this. Is that I've always heard the military doesn't get paid enough. You took a $40,000 pay cut how much were you making?
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Posted: 5/14/2021 7:59:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't understand the move. But going down to a warrant?? why not an E-8 or E-9 ? are you you going to keep you pay base on your old rank? It looks like an ass backwards move. Oh! and don't expect any promotions, real soon. Because E8/9s are managers and dont get to do fun stuff anymore. There are exceptions, but in general the fun in most MOS's stop at E6/7. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:02:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was trying to explain this to some people regarding enlisted personnel in Ranger Regiment and the enlisted personnel that start out there and have long term careers. There are some exceptions, But your top quality personnel do not stay Regiment and become the senior NCOs. The top slice of the high quality density disproportionately become operators, SOF pilots, 11As, 18As, SOF unit emergency physicians and surgeons, etc. Others OGA, civilian careers, college professors, etc. Again, with some exceptions, the senior NCOs are what was left, and are great quality, remaining after much of the greater quality has moved on. There was some amelioration of this up until the mid 1980s or so. With more limited E8 and E9 slots in the Army’s premier unit, and with 11BS instead of 18B guys could pop between group and bn or come from the premier unit to get PSG or 1SG time, etc. All of which is not an issue or an option now. You ain’t lying- The Regiment = a great place to be “from”. When I was in 3/75 we joked every day was selection - not far from the truth. More than a few great 18s got RFS’D. Ironically- now 18x washouts get a shot at RIP. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:06:28 PM EDT
[#14]
In 1983 I was in a Navy squadron that had an 03 as the assistant maintenance officer.
He was tired of the officer bullshit, so he dropped back down to his prior Enlisted rate with a two paygrade bump to Master Chief and took orders to the Blue Angels. I saw him 7 years later, he was a Commander and was the XO of EMPMAC in New Orleans. I asked him how his Master Chief orders worked out, I got a "Fuck you ka3b" from him.  |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:15:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen it personally several times in the Guard, mostly from commissioned officer to warrant officer, but also twice from commissioned officer to NCO. One ended up the 1SG in the company he'd been the commander of years before, which was interesting... Nowadays the professional development schooling requirements also kick in. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:21:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Good on you. Seek happiness.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:21:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I started this process a couple years ago, paperwork was initially denied and I had to have a sit-down with a 2 star as to why I was asking to do this. After explaining my reasons, he allowed it. His logic for denying it the first time was sound, "you think we don't all want to be back on a team throwing hand grenades and running commandos? This is where the Army needs you." He wouldn't have said that if he didn't think you were good at what you were doing and had a upward path. That said, good on you for doing what is right for you  , sometimes you have to put mental health and enjoyment above money.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:27:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP - “know thyself”. You made the right call. It definitely ain’t all about rank. You will be able to contribute at a very meaningful level for years to come. We need good men like you. Good luck/DOL! My thoughts exactly. Sometimes it isn't about the rank. I was technically promoted to E-8. The promotion was what kicked that retirement plan into high gear. I just knew I could not stick around for three more years. I pissed of ALOT of people when I turned E-8 down and dropped that retirement packet. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:32:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Wow that's a bug decision! But congrats on it!
What's the backstory on that trashed Chinook? Seems like I've maybe seen that pic before |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:35:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Good for you man.
When I was at 3/75 we had a guy who was an E5 medic in the big army. Went to OCS, became a motor officer. Went to RASP 2, came to regiment as an LT. Went to Ranger School and took a maintenance platoon at E Co. Did that for about a year before saying being an officer is gay. Resigned his commission, took a demotion back to E5. They made him go through RASP 1  Then he applied for RRC and last I heard is living the dream. Life is short. Do what makes you happy. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:39:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Good luck.
You have more nerve than I do to stay in. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:39:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was a major. I was rated pretty well, checking all the right boxes, but I legitimately did not enjoy my job. https://th.bing.com/th/id/R8c3b7e6fe87e025c009ac0ac21474e09?rik=G8x4P%2fS5tpcjCg&pid=ImgRaw I started this process a couple years ago, paperwork was initially denied and I had to have a sit-down with a 2 star as to why I was asking to do this. After explaining my reasons, he allowed it. His logic for denying it the first time was sound, "you think we don't all want to be back on a team throwing hand grenades and running commandos? This is where the Army needs you." Major is the worst job in the army. You're just someone's admin weenie. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:40:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you're in a machine, ain't nobody looking out for what's good for you except you. Well done man. The Army hurts people. It’s not particular about who. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:41:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Good job doing what you love
I was also a voluntary decomissioned nut. Not combat arms though, |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:42:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Congrats!
Doing what you love to do is very important for your mind and physical well being. Nice to see some good true leaders are left sir. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 8:48:31 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm going to take a guess based on your photos and chosen career path that you're an 18A who deferred promotion to MAJ to stay as a team leader, and then you after finally being forced to take O4 you didn't like it (as expected) and went to warrant to stay on a team?
I've known a couple people who have done that on the SF side. I get it, although as a midgrade guy myself I will say that not all field grade jobs are bad. I've chosen to embrace the Mike Rowe mantra of bringing my passion to my job and not necessarily trying to find the job I'm passionate about. It helps with the sanity.. 
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Posted: 5/14/2021 9:03:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Now that you’re going to be one of the boys on the team day to day again, it’s time for some more cool guy pics
I still remember your return video/welcome home post in 2013ish as a PL, queensofbattle  Glad you’re still with us and doing what’s right for you. |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 9:48:10 PM EDT
[#28]
I turned down my promotion to E-8 and retired as an E-7 after 24 years of active duty.
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Posted: 5/14/2021 9:53:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Good to see you around. Happy trails!
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:28:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Good for you, SIR!.
You have my respect. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:54:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Good for you. I left a cool unit to come back to flying Apaches. Very few people understand it, least of all that unit’s leadership.
But I was miserable. Now I’m not. Congrats! |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 1:01:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Interesting.
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Posted: 5/15/2021 1:02:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Awesome to see that you're living the dream, but more importantly, refusing to live anything but your dream.
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Posted: 5/15/2021 1:14:55 AM EDT
[#34]
I know a LTC who used to be a warrant and a CW3 who used to be a MAJ. Guess which one has regretted it for years? Warrant life is probably the best in the Army.
It's seems funny to me that an E-7 can come out of WOCS as a CW2 but an O-4 comes out a WO1. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 2:00:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The top guys, the Dick Winterses of the world, they are too good to stay in the Army. The really terrible guys, they CAN'T stay in. The leadership most of us see in the service are really the mid level guys. The guys who are pretty okay at what they do. And because in my heart I have some officer in me, I drew a powerpoint slide to illustrate The second smartest guy I ever met in the army described this as "the army breeds mediocrity". Just like public school, the big military is made for/by guys on the middle of the bell curve - the average +/- 2sd, the 5-95th percentile, etc. The people on the bottom of the bell curve go away because they're idiots and the people on the top of the bell curve go somewhere more suited to their abilities and desires. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 8:01:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryThat's because NG rank is based on your manning slot. No slot at your present rank? Take the open one at a lower rank. Nowadays the professional development schooling requirements also kick in. I'm not sure I'm following. We're indeed allowed one up and two down in terms of assignment slot vs held rank, but no normal interchange between E/WO/O. We can usually put someone initially in a slot even if they don't have the required schooling, with the requirement that they have 12 months to get it (or lose the slot and/or promotion and/or bonus that was tied to the slot). |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 11:23:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know a LTC who used to be a warrant and a CW3 who used to be a MAJ. Guess which one has regretted it for years? Warrant life is probably the best in the Army. It's seems funny to me that an E-7 can come out of WOCS as a CW2 but an O-4 comes out a WO1. Me too. Is there something different with the 18 series and Infantry fields? Every Aviation Officer that I have seen revert, became a CW2. I obviously did not go to WOC school when I revert from O3 to CW2. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 11:29:36 AM EDT
[#38]
A question for the SF guys here.
Do the SF warrants have a 18X type program? Do they come from the enlisted ranks and enter the A teams as CW2s? I remember that seeing the sign at Camp Harriman/Orgun-E that he was a CW2. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 11:31:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they still do the square dining thing at WOCS? Congrats, Steve! Sure hope so that was half the fun of eating... Taught my nephews that techinque |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:06:15 PM EDT
[#40]
I'm pretty sure going from Major to WO1 is a promotion.....
Good for you Chief...Best of luck. |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:08:46 PM EDT
[#41]
 Wizardry. Quote HistoryQuoted: That is awesome. Good for you. I reverted from O3 promotable to CW2 right after 911. No way in hell was I gonna ride the pine while my unit went to Afghanistan. Best move I ever made. I was eventually promoted to CW3 then branch transferred to the Air Guard, recommissioned to O3 and retired as an O4 flying PAVEHAWKS. Winning! |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:11:05 PM EDT
[#42]
I just dropped in to thank you for what you do. The world is a better place because of men like you helping to shape it.
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:11:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Good on you OP for doing what you enjoy instead of climbing the corporate ladder. BTDT.
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Posted: 5/15/2021 12:16:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Warrant Officer is the best rank if you want to keep doing a job that you love.
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Posted: 5/22/2021 10:38:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You didn't get "save pay"? I know in AV world when a O gets "promoted" and becomes a WO, they get paid the difference between the two until their new pay catches up. I know of CW2s drawing the equivalent to O4 pay. Save pay is not applicable in a (voluntary) reversion to a lower rank; only when going to a higher rank which results in lower pay (i.e. NCO to O-1 for example). |
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Posted: 5/22/2021 10:43:10 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 5/22/2021 10:46:09 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congratulations. That’s an interesting situation, and I hope it works out great! How common is that? Do you know of anyone else who has done the same? My only experience is 23ish years in the National Guard but I have seen it happen there before. Mostly Captains that won't make major or LTs that just decide it sucks to be a PL .If you have your high three you will still retire at your previous rank. My old boss a CW3 told me that sometimes captains will cross over to the warrant officer world. I have never seen that though. |
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Posted: 5/22/2021 10:46:45 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryThat won't work, the carafe is empty. A warrant won't strike until someone has made a fresh pot. Kharn |
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Posted: 5/22/2021 11:11:14 AM EDT
[#49]
OP turning into a WO:
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Posted: 5/22/2021 11:21:19 AM EDT
[#50]
On the enlisted side , E5 / E6 mafia is where I've chosen to stay for the past 12 years. Screw senior NCO responsibility. Do what you love, lead men, be a SME, not a manager.
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