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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:11:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had that class. Then I went to Iraq...twice. Same with Afghanistan. Theory met reality and reality wasn't like the books and powerpoints. It smelled a lot worse too and justice wasn't what decided who lived and died. War sounds awesome when you are 25. I thought it was the best thing...ever. Looking back, it was pointless and full of needless human suffering that would not have happened if we had not been there. It was not just for the literal truckloads of dead people that are still dead, no matter how much pretty paper we wrap our involvement in. War and just are not words that go together. Not in reality. Justice and truth are the first real casualties of war. Wait. I don't want to be accused of putting words into your mouth. So I'll ask you straight out: Is a war of self defense morally justifiable? Yes or no. Because this potentially raises some other questions I'd like to ask you. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:13:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, "Unjust" according to whom? We...as in the US Military...knowingly and intentionally firebombed entire cities full of civilians and we did it on purpose, multiple times. There is no morality in war. None. Morality is the illusion sold to simpletons who want a good vs evil feeling to justify the horrible things that are done as if it gives the deaths purpose and allows the people to not have to answer hard questions about how horrible their actions truly were. It is imbecilic to moralize war. It has no morality. It has winners and losers. All else is just to feel better about doing what you did to win. You are totally wrong. We moralize war to restrain the worst of human brutality. You excuse it as if there are no international laws, but we call it war crimes and Nuremberg trials. There is no excuse for genocide and there must be consequences. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:13:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the Azovs invade Belorus or something, it will mean something. In the real world, Russia is trying to annex Ukraine right now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: An expansionist dictator who hates us and has a history of screwing us expanding his industrial base by annexing his neighbors isn’t an American problem? I respectfully disagree. Ever look at Azov Movement’s political goals? They’re expansionist too. They want an giant ethno-nationalist Intermarium state between the two seas that is free from Russian, Western European and US influence. They want their own trade pact within that union too smd they are active recruiting supporters inside those nations, yo meet that end. Even though it’s kinda Nazi, maybe it’ll work. When the Azovs invade Belorus or something, it will mean something. In the real world, Russia is trying to annex Ukraine right now. Nothing in their site which was linked as a "gotcha" was anything more than wanting a consensual union of similar countries. Just like the Nazis. 
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:17:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are totally wrong. We moralize war to restrain the worst of human brutality. You excuse it as if there are no international laws, but we call it war crimes and Nuremberg trials. There is no excuse for genocide and there must be consequences. The last part he says is what I'm particularly interested in. "It is imbecilic to moralize war. It has no morality. It has winners and losers. All else is just to feel better about doing what you did to win." This part, especially the bolded and highlighted part" is what I'm curious about and will wait for a definitive answer before I ask my followup question. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:21:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t forget nuance, that dies too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I had that class. Then I went to Iraq...twice. Same with Afghanistan. Theory met reality and reality wasn't like the books and powerpoints. It smelled a lot worse too and justice wasn't what decided who lived and died. War sounds awesome when you are 25. I thought it was the best thing...ever. Looking back, it was pointless and full of needless human suffering that would not have happened if we had not been there. It was not just for the literal truckloads of dead people that are still dead, no matter how much pretty paper we wrap our involvement in. War and just are not words that go together. Not in reality. Justice and truth are the first real casualties of war. Don’t forget nuance, that dies too. Nah. War is filled with all sorts of nuance. War is Hell. But War is also funny as Hell. It’s sad and tragic and you will witness acts of hate and love and everything in between. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:25:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i.imgur.com/bkBI9Tj.png post 36 on page 19 - but you won't talk about how the ruling class caused all these issues that you want Americans to worry about. Muh Russia, Muh China - get a grip. I guess it was kind of stupid to destabilize the Middle East if you guys didn't want them to have a foreign port. yep, you're mad lol lmao Quote HistoryQuoted: Cincinnatus: If someone insisted that we "stop worrying about China" -what would you think of that person and their intentions? If someone insisted that we "stop worrying about the Border" -what would you think of that person and their intentions? If someone insisted that we "stop worrying about Russia" -what would you think of that person and their intentions? Keeping in mind, that "worrying about" these issues/threats is not a mutually exclusive exercise. Yeremyahu: Blah blah blah. You raise issues with your rhetoric that you have absolutely no concern about but know will confound normal people. Cincinnatus: I raise issues (questions, actually) that I know you will never answer. Your non-answer then proves my point. https://i.imgur.com/bkBI9Tj.png post 36 on page 19 - but you won't talk about how the ruling class caused all these issues that you want Americans to worry about. Muh Russia, Muh China - get a grip. Cincinnatus: Russia did not "step in to prevent Syria from being overrun." They stepped in to secure access to a warm water port. Cincinnatus: They merely pretended to conduct counter-terrorism operations. They were as clumsy and stupid THERE as they are in Ukraine. lol lmao You either say nothing or you speak untruths. Are you sure you’re not Russian? 
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:25:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since when is "not my issue, stay home and fix actual American problems first"...being a russian apologist. List one place where I said russia is good or right? You can't. If you can't justify this war to a guy mowing grass for grocery money...you can't justify it...and you can't. It doesn't improve his life one bit. It doesn't improve his situation in life at all...it makes it worse. That guy is an actual American and he should be the focus of American governmental aid and support...not a corrupt foreign power. If that's your definition of "pro russia"...you are simply wrong. Saying we need to fix our problems first is like saying a person can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. You are half right. Putin can't justify this war, he committed violations of international law and laws against humanity. If he is not held accountable, he will keep doing it. You say it is not our problem but by saying so you empower him and defend him. You give him every reason to commit more genocide. You say we must fix our problems here but that is just a smokescreen. The only way a nation can be held responsible for its crimes is for other nations to stop it. Anything else is enabling their behavior. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:29:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saying we need to fix our problems first is like saying a person can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. You are half right. Putin can't justify this war, he committed violations of international law and laws against humanity. If he is not held accountable, he will keep doing it. You say it is not our problem but by saying so you empower him and defend him. You give him every reason to commit more genocide. You say we must fix our problems here but that is just a smokescreen. The only way a nation can be held responsible for its crimes is for other nations to stop it. Anything else is enabling their behavior. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:30:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting, so you give yourself a pass because you don't want to do jail time- even though it's important to you. But somehow me not risking my life means the Ukraine isn't important to me? Death is a bigger consequence than a felony, wouldn't you say? You're going to have to show your work on that one bro, or maybe just admit it's a stupid argument. If I was advocating to send in US troops you might have a point, but I'm not, so you don't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well I guess it's not that important to you then is it. By "important" you mean I have to commit felony's in order to prove I think our federal immigration laws should be enforced? I think hunting illegal aliens on the southern border would be frowned upon by the Biden administration and his AG. But you can certainly join the legion in Ukraine and "Fight the Russian bear" with no legal consequences. Since you haven't, I guess it's just not that important to you as your multiple posts and ranting might lead someone to believe. Interesting, so you give yourself a pass because you don't want to do jail time- even though it's important to you. But somehow me not risking my life means the Ukraine isn't important to me? Death is a bigger consequence than a felony, wouldn't you say? You're going to have to show your work on that one bro, or maybe just admit it's a stupid argument. If I was advocating to send in US troops you might have a point, but I'm not, so you don't. I guess you missed the part where one is highly illegal{"hunting illegal aliens in America"} and the other {"Helping Ukraine kill the Russian bear"} Is a lawful action with a open invitation from Ukraine, and considered by YOU to be patriotic. In short you should consider not demanding that everyone adopt your point of view, and calling anyone who doesn't want our country involved in yet another cluster fuck endless war a "Russian sympathizer". You sound like a little kid kicking and screaming on the floor of the store because mommy won't let you have the toy you want. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:30:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saying we need to fix our problems first is like saying a person can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. You are half right. Putin can't justify this war, he committed violations of international law and laws against humanity. If he is not held accountable, he will keep doing it. You say it is not our problem but by saying so you empower him and defend him. You give him every reason to commit more genocide. You say we must fix our problems here but that is just a smokescreen. The only way a nation can be held responsible for its crimes is for other nations to stop it. Anything else is enabling their behavior. Does genocide mean anything to someone who thinks there's literally no moral component in war that he should care about? And calls it imbecilic to make such distinctions? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:37:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess you missed the part where one is highly illegal{"hunting illegal aliens in America"} and the other {"Helping Ukraine kill the Russian bear"} Is a lawful action with a open invitation from Ukraine, and considered by YOU to be patriotic. In short you should consider not demanding that everyone adopt your point of view, and calling anyone who doesn't want our country involved in yet another cluster fuck endless war a "Russian sympathizer". You sound like a little kid kicking and screaming on the floor of the store because mommy won't let you have the toy you want. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well I guess it's not that important to you then is it. By "important" you mean I have to commit felony's in order to prove I think our federal immigration laws should be enforced? I think hunting illegal aliens on the southern border would be frowned upon by the Biden administration and his AG. But you can certainly join the legion in Ukraine and "Fight the Russian bear" with no legal consequences. Since you haven't, I guess it's just not that important to you as your multiple posts and ranting might lead someone to believe. Interesting, so you give yourself a pass because you don't want to do jail time- even though it's important to you. But somehow me not risking my life means the Ukraine isn't important to me? Death is a bigger consequence than a felony, wouldn't you say? You're going to have to show your work on that one bro, or maybe just admit it's a stupid argument. If I was advocating to send in US troops you might have a point, but I'm not, so you don't. I guess you missed the part where one is highly illegal{"hunting illegal aliens in America"} and the other {"Helping Ukraine kill the Russian bear"} Is a lawful action with a open invitation from Ukraine, and considered by YOU to be patriotic. In short you should consider not demanding that everyone adopt your point of view, and calling anyone who doesn't want our country involved in yet another cluster fuck endless war a "Russian sympathizer". You sound like a little kid kicking and screaming on the floor of the store because mommy won't let you have the toy you want. Doing something about illegal aliens crossing our border must ONLY mean hunting and killing them. Supporting Ukraine in their fight against Russia must ONLY mean going over there and grabbing a rifle. My God, it’s TRUE! Nuance IS dead. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:37:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess you missed the part where one is highly illegal{"hunting illegal aliens in America"} and the other {"Helping Ukraine kill the Russian bear"} Is a lawful action with a open invitation from Ukraine, and considered by YOU to be patriotic. In short you should consider not demanding that everyone adopt your point of view, and calling anyone who doesn't want our country involved in yet another cluster fuck endless war a "Russian sympathizer". You sound like a little kid kicking and screaming on the floor of the store because mommy won't let you have the toy you want. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well I guess it's not that important to you then is it. By "important" you mean I have to commit felony's in order to prove I think our federal immigration laws should be enforced? I think hunting illegal aliens on the southern border would be frowned upon by the Biden administration and his AG. But you can certainly join the legion in Ukraine and "Fight the Russian bear" with no legal consequences. Since you haven't, I guess it's just not that important to you as your multiple posts and ranting might lead someone to believe. Interesting, so you give yourself a pass because you don't want to do jail time- even though it's important to you. But somehow me not risking my life means the Ukraine isn't important to me? Death is a bigger consequence than a felony, wouldn't you say? You're going to have to show your work on that one bro, or maybe just admit it's a stupid argument. If I was advocating to send in US troops you might have a point, but I'm not, so you don't. I guess you missed the part where one is highly illegal{"hunting illegal aliens in America"} and the other {"Helping Ukraine kill the Russian bear"} Is a lawful action with a open invitation from Ukraine, and considered by YOU to be patriotic. In short you should consider not demanding that everyone adopt your point of view, and calling anyone who doesn't want our country involved in yet another cluster fuck endless war a "Russian sympathizer". You sound like a little kid kicking and screaming on the floor of the store because mommy won't let you have the toy you want. I didn't miss it. I asked you quite simply why you won't risk jail for something you think is important but you expect me to risk death for something I think is important. Honestly it doesn't matter, but it would be illegal for me join the festivities anyway. But thats beside the hypocritical argument you're making. I don't even have to resort to ad hominems. The point I'm making that's lost in you is basically what Cinc just said. You can support a thing without risking jail or death. That fact is lost in your though. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:41:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does genocide mean anything to someone who thinks there's literally no moral component in war that he should care about? And calls it imbecilic to make such distinctions? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Saying we need to fix our problems first is like saying a person can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. You are half right. Putin can't justify this war, he committed violations of international law and laws against humanity. If he is not held accountable, he will keep doing it. You say it is not our problem but by saying so you empower him and defend him. You give him every reason to commit more genocide. You say we must fix our problems here but that is just a smokescreen. The only way a nation can be held responsible for its crimes is for other nations to stop it. Anything else is enabling their behavior. Does genocide mean anything to someone who thinks there's literally no moral component in war that he should care about? And calls it imbecilic to make such distinctions? If we decide to invade Canada, with the sole intent of murdering all the Canadians with red hair and anyone named Brendan…. Canada’s decision to defend against this invasion is “neither” just nor “moral”? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:42:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we decide to invade Canada, with the sole intent of murdering all the Canadians people with red hair and anyone named Brendan…. Canada’s decision to defend against this invasion is “neither” just nor “moral”? That was my question to him on the last page. Or the crux of it, anyways. I really don't think he's going to give a straight answer. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:43:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doing something about illegal aliens crossing our border must ONLY mean hunting and killing them. Supporting Ukraine in their fight against Russia must ONLY mean going over there and grabbing a rifle. My God, it’s TRUE! Nuance IS dead. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well I guess it's not that important to you then is it. By "important" you mean I have to commit felony's in order to prove I think our federal immigration laws should be enforced? I think hunting illegal aliens on the southern border would be frowned upon by the Biden administration and his AG. But you can certainly join the legion in Ukraine and "Fight the Russian bear" with no legal consequences. Since you haven't, I guess it's just not that important to you as your multiple posts and ranting might lead someone to believe. Interesting, so you give yourself a pass because you don't want to do jail time- even though it's important to you. But somehow me not risking my life means the Ukraine isn't important to me? Death is a bigger consequence than a felony, wouldn't you say? You're going to have to show your work on that one bro, or maybe just admit it's a stupid argument. If I was advocating to send in US troops you might have a point, but I'm not, so you don't. I guess you missed the part where one is highly illegal{"hunting illegal aliens in America"} and the other {"Helping Ukraine kill the Russian bear"} Is a lawful action with a open invitation from Ukraine, and considered by YOU to be patriotic. In short you should consider not demanding that everyone adopt your point of view, and calling anyone who doesn't want our country involved in yet another cluster fuck endless war a "Russian sympathizer". You sound like a little kid kicking and screaming on the floor of the store because mommy won't let you have the toy you want. Doing something about illegal aliens crossing our border must ONLY mean hunting and killing them. Supporting Ukraine in their fight against Russia must ONLY mean going over there and grabbing a rifle. My God, it’s TRUE! Nuance IS dead. Are you saying answering Ukraine's call to come fight for them to "kill the Russian bear" is not helping? Besides letters and voting how do YOU suggest a citizen get our federal government to enforce their laws? |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:43:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's insufficient for you to not be racist....you have to be actively anti-racist and attack people for not being anti-racist enough....  That's the entire Ukraine thread.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:44:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was my question to him on the last page. Or the crux of it, anyways. I really don't think he's going to give a straight answer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If we decide to invade Canada, with the sole intent of murdering all the Canadians people with red hair and anyone named Brendan…. Canada’s decision to defend against this invasion is “neither” just nor “moral”? That was my question to him on the last page. Or the crux of it, anyways. I really don't think he's going to give a straight answer. It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:45:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was my question to him on the last page. Or the crux of it, anyways. I really don't think he's going to give a straight answer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If we decide to invade Canada, with the sole intent of murdering all the Canadians people with red hair and anyone named Brendan…. Canada’s decision to defend against this invasion is “neither” just nor “moral”? That was my question to him on the last page. Or the crux of it, anyways. I really don't think he's going to give a straight answer. He's got not answer because his logic is circular. War is terrible and causes suffering. Starting a war is neither just nor unjust. Defending yourself against invasion is neither unjust nor just. Somehow causing a war that brings suffering is not unjust. Bonkers. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:52:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's insufficient for you to not be racist....you have to be actively anti-racist and attack people for not being anti-racist enough.... That's the entire Ukraine thread. That's a great analogy....if you think that hurting someone's feelings and murdering innocent people are similar. I would actually say that if a racist is actively killing innocent people because of their race, rather than a just cause such as self defense, and you have the ability to stop them but don't then you aren't a terribly moral person. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:53:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:55:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. It's been explained multiple times why it's not that simple but you choose to ignore it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:57:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saying we need to fix our problems first is like saying a person can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. You are half right. Putin can't justify this war, he committed violations of international law and laws against humanity. If he is not held accountable, he will keep doing it. You say it is not our problem but by saying so you empower him and defend him. You give him every reason to commit more genocide. You say we must fix our problems here but that is just a smokescreen. The only way a nation can be held responsible for its crimes is for other nations to stop it. Anything else is enabling their behavior. The difference being I don't need to chew the bubblegum, I don't give a fuck about it, and I'm tired of fucking paying for it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 6:57:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Like I said, bullshit. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:01:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been explained multiple times why it's not that simple but you choose to ignore it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. It's been explained multiple times why it's not that simple but you choose to ignore it. Like in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and countless other bullshit our government has involved us in that drags on for decades? I think it's you that choose to ignore the obvious that history has documented so well. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:02:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. You know we're talking about one nation that invaded another and is killing its civilian non-combatants, right? Why do you keep bringing up that analogy? It doesn't apply... nor is it even needed. The situation isn't complicated enough to warrant an analogy. There's no reason to make one. Unless you're trying to rationalize what is actually happening into something that can be more easily hand-waved. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:05:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said, bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Like I said, bullshit. Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:05:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's got not answer because his logic is circular. War is terrible and causes suffering. Starting a war is neither just nor unjust. Defending yourself against invasion is neither unjust nor just. Somehow causing a war that brings suffering is not unjust. Bonkers. I was going to ask him if the same logic of "there's only winners and losers" and "moral justification is just rationalization" and "no such thing as a just war, even in self defense" applies to individual human interaction, too. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:05:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doing something about illegal aliens crossing our border must ONLY mean hunting and killing them. Supporting Ukraine in their fight against Russia must ONLY mean going over there and grabbing a rifle. My God, it’s TRUE! Nuance IS dead. Or we've got a few examples of the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:06:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Can we at least agree that this thing needs to stop?
And maybe even that it would be better to make some concessions instead of escalating? On all sides? I’d like one to be that we offer Ukrainians citizenship. We owe them that much for pushing this too far. Also as one of the few not ganging up on Putin I am fully open to being a paid shill. I like PKMs, Tula SKSs and pretty much any AK that’s not an underfolder. No vodka please. I think the Poles make a better one. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:08:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we at least agree that this thing needs to stop? And maybe even that it would be better to make some concessions instead of escalating? On all sides? I’d like one to be that we offer Ukrainians citizenship. We owe them that much for pushing this too far. Also as one of the few not ganging up on Putin I am fully open to being a paid shill. I like PKMs, Tula SKSs and pretty much any AK that’s not an underfolder. No vodka please. I think the Poles make a better one. This thing needs to stop. And Putin can do that any time he chooses. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:09:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and countless other bullshit our government has involved us in that drags on for decades? I think it's you that choose to ignore the obvious that history has documented so well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. It's been explained multiple times why it's not that simple but you choose to ignore it. Like in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and countless other bullshit our government has involved us in that drags on for decades? I think it's you that choose to ignore the obvious that history has documented so well. That's not a real response to anything I've said, it's a false equivalence, a common logical fallacy. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:10:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Like I said, bullshit. Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it. You won't donate your body to your cause. Hypocrite. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:10:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was going to ask him if the same logic of "there's only winners and losers" and "moral justification is just rationalization" and "no such thing as a just war, even in self defense" applies to individual human interaction, too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He's got not answer because his logic is circular. War is terrible and causes suffering. Starting a war is neither just nor unjust. Defending yourself against invasion is neither unjust nor just. Somehow causing a war that brings suffering is not unjust. Bonkers. I was going to ask him if the same logic of "there's only winners and losers" and "moral justification is just rationalization" and "no such thing as a just war, even in self defense" applies to individual human interaction, too. Exactly |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:11:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we at least agree that this thing needs to stop? And maybe even that it would be better to make some concessions instead of escalating? On all sides? I’d like one to be that we offer Ukrainians citizenship. We owe them that much for pushing this too far. Also as one of the few not ganging up on Putin I am fully open to being a paid shill. I like PKMs, Tula SKSs and pretty much any AK that’s not an underfolder. No vodka please. I think the Poles make a better one. Poor Putin getting ganged up on :( |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:14:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we at least agree that this thing needs to stop? And maybe even that it would be better to make some concessions instead of escalating? On all sides? I’d like one to be that we offer Ukrainians citizenship. We owe them that much for pushing this too far. Also as one of the few not ganging up on Putin I am fully open to being a paid shill. I like PKMs, Tula SKSs and pretty much any AK that’s not an underfolder. No vodka please. I think the Poles make a better one. Doesn't make a bit of difference to me what they do over there. I don't give a damn if those two retard run countries butt fuck each other back to the stone age. Just leave us the hell alone and don't ask for my money. Not my circus. 
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:15:21 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:15:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or we've got a few examples of the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Doing something about illegal aliens crossing our border must ONLY mean hunting and killing them. Supporting Ukraine in their fight against Russia must ONLY mean going over there and grabbing a rifle. My God, it’s TRUE! Nuance IS dead. Or we've got a few examples of the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy. Not really. You DO personally have the option of taking Ukraine up on their offer, and helping them kill "The Russian bear". You personally do not have the option to spend other peoples money or send off our governments weapons to a foreign country under your personal authority. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:16:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... Also as one of the few not ganging up on Putin I am fully open to being a paid shill. I like PKMs, Tula SKSs and pretty much any AK that’s not an underfolder. ... Having a Z avatar and setting your country as RU is certainly not ganging up on Putin.
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:16:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know we're talking about one nation that invaded another and is killing its civilian non-combatants, right? Why do you keep bringing up that analogy? It doesn't apply... nor is it even needed. The situation isn't complicated enough to warrant an analogy. There's no reason to make one. Unless you're trying to rationalize what is actually happening into something that can be more easily hand-waved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. You know we're talking about one nation that invaded another and is killing its civilian non-combatants, right? Why do you keep bringing up that analogy? It doesn't apply... nor is it even needed. The situation isn't complicated enough to warrant an analogy. There's no reason to make one. Unless you're trying to rationalize what is actually happening into something that can be more easily hand-waved. We did that |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:17:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't make a bit of difference to me what they do over there. I don't give a damn if those two retard run countries butt fuck each other back to the stone age. Just leave us the hell alone and don't ask for my money. Not my circus. https://y.yarn.co/77ee02ab-7f5c-4bf3-8276-56a8002002d3_text.gif You're right. We've lived too well off of having a stable world with strong international trade. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:18:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not a real response to anything I've said, it's a false equivalence, a common logical fallacy. No, they are real world examples of what happens every time in recent history when our government gets involved with a war. I know reality and history don't align with your calls for war, but reality and history really don't care what you think. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:18:31 PM EDT
[#42]
If we were smart, we'd annex Taiwan first?
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:19:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Informed people often side with the country that was invaded with zero justification and is currently threatened with destruction of their entire identity, which also not advocating for American boots on the ground. The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:20:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You won't donate your body to your cause. Hypocrite. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Like I said, bullshit. Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it. You won't donate your body to your cause. Hypocrite. I'm not the one calling to "Kill the Russian bear" or your a Russian sympathizer...  |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:21:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're right. We've lived too well off of having a stable world with strong international trade. The ol globalism is good for us argument. I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade! 
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:21:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't matter if you give a flying flip about war crimes, genocide, Ukraine or old ladies in babushkas getting raped in the back of BTRs. The only operative question is whether bleeding Russia of military and political power benefits the United States strategically. Morality can have nothing to do with the calculus of what level of involvement by the US is justified. That is balderdash. Why do you think the Nuremberg trials were held? It was all about war crimes and justice under International law. Sure there are always other justifications. Wars are always more complex than they appear in the beginning. Risk of war is also a calculation of risk. Still, we do things like airlifting thousands of Ethiopian Jews from Sudan in 1985. There was risk and it was kept secret until it was done to minimize that risk. It is easy to be flippant with the lives of people we don't know. It is so much easier to "Not care" than to act human and stick your neck out to do right. Are Russian cold indifference to humanity and the lives of others any different than our cold indifference if we are unwilling to protect them? I'm far more conservative than some who call themselves conservative but there is nothing conservative about throwing oppressed people under the bus and then gloating how pure we are. That is the worst lie of all. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:21:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't make a bit of difference to me what they do over there. I don't give a damn if those two retard run countries butt fuck each other back to the stone age. Just leave us the hell alone and don't ask for my money. Not my circus. https://y.yarn.co/77ee02ab-7f5c-4bf3-8276-56a8002002d3_text.gif Except you do care, or you wouldn’t be posting in this thread at all. Virtue signaling how much you don’t care by repeatedly going into threads to talk about how much you don’t care has become trendy among folks of a certain mindset here… |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:22:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ol globalism is good for us argument. I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade! https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You're right. We've lived too well off of having a stable world with strong international trade. The ol globalism is good for us argument. I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade! https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif Global trade is good. Globalhomo as a one world government is unrelated. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:22:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. LOL no. |
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Posted: 4/20/2022 7:23:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Informed people often side with the country that was invaded with zero justification and is currently threatened with destruction of their entire identity, which also not advocating for American boots on the ground. The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. Hahaha Really? You-serious-Clark.jpg Wow |
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