Reading some of you guy's posts, it's a miracle i keep my numbers at 900+ with only 80 mg + HCG a week.  I went over 1100 at 100 mg a week, so my doc told me dial it down 20 mg and it puts me at 950-1000 pretty consistently.

So i dunno who saw my post, and i know i didn't ask a question, but any input?  I did my Monday HCG today, things seemed on the lower end of normal.  Did i fuck up taking that .25 mg anastrozole Saturday and bomb my E2?  I'm going to do blood work Wednesday.  

Also, do you guys just go and order blood work on your own or always through your TRT doc?  It's a hassle going through them.  If you do it yourself what's your average cost?

You are a lucky guy. It sucks when you need 200+ to get there, it really limits you to using clinics for the most part. I keep looking, but I've never found a PC doc that was comfortable going over 100/week.

I used to get a lot of bloodwork done on my own and used either privatemdlabs.com or labsmd.com. One uses Quest for the testing and the other uses LabCorp. $50-$70 is about what they run and you can usually find a coupon code to get a discount if you hunt around a little.

ETA: I think it's the "female hormone panel" that will get you what you want the cheapest. Works for males just fine, you just note that you are a guy and the ranges are adjusted accordingly.

Private MD labs

They have a deal set up with lab corp



http://www.privatemdlabs.com/?gclid=CjwKEAjwwbyxBRCS74T049iEp0wSJACkO5v1nwklnGjonjFACd9OjY3agRLksfVpTzv4lJtRrAChyBoC1Ebw_wcB





This is the panel you want



Hormone Panel for Males



Description:

Please
Note: If this panel is ordered by a female, due to ordering
restrictions on certain tests, the PSA test will not be included on the
requisition and will not be performed.





Note: If total testosterone levels are greater than the cutoff for this
test (>1500), results for free testosterone and/or percent free
testosterone may not be provided.  If total testosterone results are
expected to be >1500 it is best that the LC/MS-MS version of this
test be ordered.



Significant deviations from the normal range may require further evaluation by your physician.




Includes:

Lipid Profile: Cholesterol, total;
high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol; low-density lipoprotein
(LDL) cholesterol (calculation); triglycerides; very low-density
lipoprotein (VLDL) cholesterol (calculation).


Complete Blood Count (CBC) with Differential:  (Hematocrit;
hemoglobin; mean corpuscular volume (MCV); mean corpuscular hemoglobin
(MCH); mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration (MCHC); red cell
distribution width (RDW); percentage and absolute differential counts;
platelet count; red cell count; white blood cell count; immature
granulocytes)


Estradiol, Sensitive


Insulin-Like Growth Factor I (IGF-I)


Comprehensive Metabolic Profile (CMP) (includes eGFR): (A:G
ratio; albumin, serum; alkaline phosphatase, serum; ALT (SGPT); AST
(SGOT); bilirubin, total; BUN; BUN:creatinine ratio; calcium, serum;
carbon dioxide, total; chloride, serum; creatinine, serum; globulin,
total; glucose, serum; potassium, serum; protein, total, serum; sodium,
serum.)


Testosterone, Free (Equilibrium Ultrafiltration) With Total Testosterone


Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)


Thyroid Profile w/ TSH:  Free Thyroxine Index (FTI);Thyroxine (T4); Thyroid Hormone Binding Ratio (T3 Uptake); Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH)



Patient Instructions:
Patient should fast for 12-14 hours before collection of the specimen.
If using a testosterone cream please be sure you have not rubbed any
into the antecubital area of your arm for the last 24 hours as it can
give elevated results. For accurate test results, no ejaculation during
the 24 hours preceding the test.





Estimated turnaround for results is 5 business days.  If confirmation testing is required, the estimated time may be extended.




Categories: Hormones and Metabolism, Male Specific Tests, Fitness, Nutrition and Anti-Aging



Price: $176.49   Add To Cart



Heres the discount code for 15% off the $176.49






                    Use coupon code 93JW34 at checkout.



I'll post the new code as soon as I get it, the one above is good till Oct 31



 

That will work for sure. The "Hormone Panel for Females" at LabsMD is the one I usually used. It's $72.99 before coupons. I'm cheap and I really only care about TT, E2 and hematocrit.

Description:
***Both MALES and FEMALES order this panel, please be sure to enter the gender that you want reference ranges for when placing your order, as each gender has different reference ranges for these tests. ***
Menopause is the time in a woman's life when menstruation stops permanently. Most women go through menopause between ages 45 and 55. In the US the average age for menstrual periods to stop completely is 51.

This panel will help diagnose the onset of menopause.
Significant deviations from the normal range may require further evaluation by your physician.

Includes:
-Complete Blood Count / CBC (includes Differential and Platelets): WBC, RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, MCV, MCH, MCHC, RDW, Platelet Count, MPV and Differential (Absolute and Percent - Neutrophils, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Eosinophils, and Basophils)
-Comprehensive Metabolic Profile ( includes eGFR ): Albumin, Albumin/Globulin Ratio (calculated), Alkaline Phosphatase, ALT, AST, BUN/Creatinine Ration, Calcium, Carbon Dioxide, Chloride, Creatinine with GFR Estimated, Globulin (calculated), Glucose, Potassium, Sodium, Total Bilirubin, Total Protein, Urea Nitrogen
-Estradiol
-Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH)
-Luteinizing Hormone (LH)
-Testosterone Total LC/MS/MS (This testosterone test will also provide results when the total testosterone value is >1500.)

"My most recent labs after 9 weeks of 260mg (1.3ml of 200mg/ml) Test C. "

Is that every 4 days, every week, 2 weeks, or month???

I haven't started the HGC yet. Tomorrow will be my first day. 1000 iu three times a week. I guess it's called HCG monotherapy. Doc is trying this to see if my T will raise enough on its own with the HCG to not need T injections. I guess the problem with this is usually your E gets too high. If you drop the HCH to get the E in check (say 500-700 iu three times a week), it drops your T levels enough to be very affective at boosting T. So then you change to injecting T and lower the HCG even more (100-250 iu twice a week). This is what I'm understanding how it works.

I've been taking the DHEA 50mg and Armor Thyro 60mg for a few days. The DHEA kept me up when I was taking it at night, so I switched to mid day. Armor Thyro on an empty stomach in the morning. Still feeling about the same as when I started right now.

Hey, thanks! Took my wife and the neighbor to get me back up and in bed. Wife is a little gal. Had to phone in some muscle. I almost cracked a tooth gritting when getting up. Which is pretty bad. I already look like this. I got a walker and did ok with it. Doing a bit better now. I was on my back doped up for about a week. Been at the office for a few days. Today is my first day back at "work" (light duty). The 135 is still on the safety pins. I don't see me getting it unloaded and the bar back on hooks this week... Maybe next.

Doc has me on a short leash with this. Labs after 4-5 weeks. Says to call in if I'm fealing any of the high E symptoms between now and then. She said she'd make a note, tell me to adjust the HCG down, and track it from there. To hell with the energy and erections for the moment though. I'm not in solid enough condition to perform anyway. I'm just glad to be able to walk again.

 
What days are you doing injections and what days are you doing the labs?  The peak serum testosterone level is 24 to 48 hours after an injection.  With HCG there is a peak in serum testosterone 2 hours after the injection which resets by the 2nd day but there is also a second delayed peak that happens at the 3rd day after the injection and resets by day 5.  All of those would factor into the levels in the labs.






My TRT doctor is pretty good with labs and insurance covers them.  If I want additional labs, such as when I'm playing with my dosage or days of the injections, I will use PrivateMDLabs.  The female hormone profile as someone mentioned will get you your total T and E2 numbers for around $60.  










 

What is it with the small hard to read type font...

Unless posters don't want folks reading their posts...



Or low self-esteem due to high E and low T...




From Swire's post ----[span style='font-size: 10pt;'

Is anyone else using Test C injections plus a testosterone cream produced by a compounding pharmacy?  That is what my TRT doctors have me using now.  They focus on balancing all hormones not just testosterone.  On T injections and HCG my testosterone numbers are good but my DHT levels have been on the low end of the scale.  The testosterone cream is supposed to have a better conversion rate to DHT than the injections do.  DHT is supposed to control energy and drive more than the testosterone itself.  I don't have labs yet but will soon.  

From my personal experience it does seem to work.  The compounding pharmacy cream says it is 200mg of Test C in 1 CC of cream.  My dose is .2CC of the cream.  That amount of cream is about the size of a pea and is easy to put on.  I'm not sure how it differs from Androgel but there is no rubbing in several pumps of gel with this cream.


My total treatment is 50mg of testosterone injected twice a week in my delts, 40mg in cream form daily, 500iu HCG 4x a week.  I don't know if it is the cream converting to DHT at a higher rate driving the energy or if the cream is just adding the extra T to my system but applying it really kicks up my energy.  I'm looking forward to seeing what the labs show.


My next set of labs are to be done 2 days after my injection and 4 to 6 hours after apply the cream.  We are trying to see what my peak serum testosterone level is.  The doctors are a husband wife team.  She has the medical degree and he has the chemistry degree.  Based on my previous labs he and I think the dose will put my peak level around 900 but she thinks it will put me near 1,100.  We will find out.  I'm just happy to have doctors working with me and willing to try things.  Their office visit isn't covered by insurance, $150 ever 3 months or so, but the prescriptions and labs are.  

 

I have no idea what is going on.  It appears fine to me when logged in.  I logged out and the font turned small.  Weird.

HELP!

I have some questions and need some advice.  I just started low T treatments in June...

Short history.  I've been athletic all of my life.  Full ride Division2 college baseball player.  Lifted and or ran 3 miles every day until I hit 25 and had a son.  I'm 5'9'' and never weighed a pound over 165 through college(could bench 280lbs at 165) and never broke 180lbs before 30yrs old.  I'm almost 37 years old now and hit the scales at 235lbs with a 36inch waist.  I can't even put up my weight on the bench anymore.  Work 4-10hr days on my ass in front of a computer.  I keep busy on my days off with yard work, work around the house and restoring a boat, but no real exercise.  By the end of a work day I'm just too tired to even go downstairs and get on the treadmill.  I have been very tired ALL the time for the past 10 years or so. On my days off I get a lot accomplished but I also sleep at least 10 hours, sometimes up to 12.

The other current meds I'm on are Losartin 50mg for blood pressure, 1mg of alprazolam in the morning and about 5,000iu of Vitamin D.  I drink 1 caffinated drink in the morning and alcohol 2-3 times a week. I've been on the alprazolam since I was 23 due to repeated and uncontrollable anxiety attacks. I was also on 10mg of lexapro from 25-30 and I think that combination is what put the extra 15lbs on during that time.  I also use a cpap machine.  I've had sleep apnea since my teens so I don't believe it's weight related as I snore heavily if I weigh 165 or 235.  I'd really like to get off the alprazolam but when I cut it in half I get very dizzy and a weird feeling by the end of the day so I take the other half.  I know I'm hooked on it and have tried other meds to get me off but they don't work...

Finally told my Dr. about this and had my T levels checked.  Came back at 150 and she put me on injections of Testosterone Cypionate 200mg/ml every 10 days.  This started in June.  I self inject with a 25ga x 1/2 inch in my quads.  The first 2 weeks I started the injections we went on vacation and I felt great.  Maybe it was in my head but I definitely felt like I had more energy and instead of wanting to sleep the entire vacation, when I woke up I was awake and ready to go.  I got labwork again 10 days after my 4th injection and I was back down to 220.  I've had labwork done about half a dozen times and have never broke 450.  I still feel tired all the time and don't know why that amount of testosterone will not get my levels up?  I think if I was at 800 I might feel better or might feel like I did after the first few weeks again, that was great.  I haven't really had any adverse side effects except my sex drive is up and my balls are about half the size they used to be.

I have another lab and meeting with my Dr in 2 weeks and want to talk to her about seeing a specialist.  The Dr. I go to now is free through my work and in the same building I work in so it's very easy to go as well as free.  I don't have a ton of $ to work with.  

Next to seeing a specialist I'm not sure where to go from here.  I've read this post a bit and wonder if there may be a better combination of testosterone treatment other than the testosterone cypionate alone.  I also had mentioned fertility with my Dr as I got remarried a few years ago and we would like to have one child together.  My wife has been off birth control shortly after I started my shots and we've definitely been trying but no luck yet.  My Dr said that I will still be able to get her pregnant but I'm wondering now if that's the case as we have sex 4-6 times week and still haven't had any luck.  She's 35 with no children and has never been pregnant.

Any ideas where to go from here?  I know I can't feel 18 again, but if I could feel 25 or 30 or even just normal it would be great.

So what does those who know think about Androgel 1.6?
My doc wants me to go on it ASAP mainly due to my T numbers are on the "low side of normal" (got them checked twice), but a bone scan shows I have osteoporosis in my lower back and hips with some small fractures in my back. She said my OP bone loss was high for my age (51). My vit D was extremely low too and I now take a 30,000ui pill once a week for that, along with a once a week osteoporosis pill to slow that down.
She seems to think going on this T-therapy drug will help all that.



Thing is, it's a really expensive Rx and involves some kind of pump from what they told me, it's like well over $500 per month. My insurance approved it and will for now cover it (I've met my deductible because of another related issue). My concern is that when I renew my term in the spring and go back to a new deducible paying the first 4K will be quite a hit from my HCSA.
That said, I would like to find a cheaper alternative that does not cost me $500 a month even if my insur pays for it, I'd like to keep costs down for both me and them. Especially if this winds up being something I need the rest of my life, which is what its looking like.
I know nothing about this treatment which is why I'm here.
Anyone else run into something similar and have any advice?




If I do this, should I feel better? (lots of aches and pains and no energy), all the classic symptoms of low T.





If I start this and later stop due to cost or whatever, will my body go back to producing T again, even at current low levels? Or will it shut down for good being I used this replacement therapy and then I will have to keep buying this the rest of my life?
Sorry for the noob questions, I've been following this thread lately and trust many of your advice.





Should I go on the Androgel 1.6, look for something cheaper, or avoid it as long as I can so long as I'm on the low "normal" side? Just not sure what to do. I am tempted to try it just because I like to feel better.



 

I chose to do shots because I didn't want my wife or 5 year old possibly getting something from touching the application site. Also according to my dr your body doesn't absorb all of it so there is a little loss.

My copay was $30 bucks for the testosterone and needles. Of course not all insurance covers stuff the same.

My wife's was so low it wasn't even detectable.

Lets take this first step by step as their is a magnitude of possibilities. Fellow ball player myself. Minor leagues for a year.

Believe it or not, you went through hormonal changes along with your wife after her pregnancy. Mine went haywire and I went 2 years feeling like shit before I had enough. Sleep deprived, shit and irregular diet/eating schedule, stress of a newborn is what caused my body to go full derp.

One thing to check is your thyroid. Ask for that to be checked as well because if your thyroid is out of wack, test kinda losses it's potency.

Testosterone-c/testosterone- e has a half life of 10-12 days. By day 10 after your injection, it's on its last leg in your system. This is why myself and many other choose to do 2x a week injections. I have considered doing test prop as its a daily injection and it's half like is 24-36 hours. Consider changing to 2x week injections.

As far as having another child while on testestosterone, it very hard to do this. After a few months of me starting injections, I became sterile and it was all confirmed through sperm tests. I did an extensive/drastic clomid/hcg restart protocol and within a month, maxed out the sperm tests. Consult your doctor about the use of hcg to help maintain fertility. Your injections have all but made your balls unless and nothing but decorative.

Do not say you can't feel like you're 18 again. Once you get it squared away, there's a good chance you can feel like a teenager again. I sure did until I had my second son a couple months ago. If I didn't have testosterone running through me, I'd be just a shell of a man.

Any more questions, pm me.

I'm going to give my wife a few more months for her levels to even out after her pregnancy. Low dose test and anavar is in her future.

She just doesn't know it yet....

How does the T effect her now?





 

Glad to see you back it's been a while.  

I used androgel but like others it stopped working after 6 months or so.  It will be interesting to see if the same happens with the compounded version you're using.  

Lower DHT is not necessarily a bad thing.  Last I saw high levels cause hair loss....I like my hair

Take a look at an edit of your post and see the 10pt commands in there, as per my last post re this.

Try to remove the commands and see if that fixes it, if you want to...

Did it for you, took out the "spans" and the 10 pt, and it now looks normal -no mickey mouse little type-

Walther 19 78


There are literally dozens of things that could be at play.  Anxiety can even be a symptom of low t.  Encourage your doc to draw labs to check thyroid function, pituitary, e2 levels, as well as several others that have been referenced here.  There is research that says a good strike to your head (big one not small one) can cause your pituitary to mess up and quit releasing the proper hormones to produce testosterone.




HCG should maintain your fertility as well as your natural production of test even though is a small amount on its own.  If injections plus hcg don't keep you fertile you could swap to a clomid/hcg routine when you and the wife decide on when to make babies.  Afterwards swap back to injected test if you choose.  FYI hcg is very costly through the dr and the pharmacy if insurance won't cover it.  There are other options if it comes to that and they have been addressed previously in this thread too.  Hit some of the common posters in here up if it comes to that.




Aveed has just been approved for use in the US.  You do a 750 ml shot then a second 4 weeks later.  After that you get a shot every 10 weeks or so.  Utilizes test undecanoate.  I've read some promising things from folks that are using it though being that long of an Ester it takes a bit longer to initially feel the results.




Test C should be getting used at minimum every seven days but every 3.5 isn't that uncommon and is how I do unless I'm prepping for a blood test.  I revert to once every 7 for bloodwork for the Dr.  Doing it every 7 vs 3.5 shoots my estrogen through the roof though.  Keep your head up and it often takes a while to get dialed in.  I'm not even entirely there yet.


 

There are a lot cheaper options than the gel if your insurance quits paying.  A 10 ml bottle of test c or test e generally won't run but around $100 and should be close to a 10 week supply.

 

If you decide later to stop therapy then you should be able to get your body back to the same level by utilizing a post cycle therapy routine.  I understand you aren't going anabolic levels but is about the same process.  Few weeks/months of clomid and some hcg and they should be functioning again.  I personally encourage you to try to use hcg even while using test simply to help keep everything working.


I skipped the gels and went straight to shots.  Have since added hcg.  And I'm also taking an estrogen blocker.  If you treat low t the dr also needs to look at your estrogen.  When they run the test make sure are running the sensitive assay for it and not the standard.  Adding testosterone to your system can and will raise your estrogen.  If it raises it enough to need additional meds you will only know if you have labs done.

I'm back but just in a couple threads.  Other priorities and such.


 

DHT doesn't directly cause hair loss, it just speeds up the process if it is going to happen to you.  From my previous experiments I'm pretty sure my hair will stick around.


The compounding pharmacy's label says "Testosterone 200mg/1ml Versabase CR".  I'm not sure how that compares to how Androgel is made.  It sounds as if the husband of the doctor uses the compounding creme exclusively and has done so for a couple years now with good success.  The cost of 30ml of creme, 150 day supply at .2ml per day, was around $90.


I do have concerns on the creme as my girlfriend her two daughters live with me now.  I apply the small dose on my side below my armpit so it is easy to keep them away from that spot.  From what I've read only about 50% of the testosterone is absorbed.  The rest stays on the surface and is either washed off with the next shower or transfers to clothing.  I take precautions to make sure I only use my towel after applying the creme and do my own laundry, so any cross exposure should be very limited.

 
With GoodRx you should be able to get a 10ml bottle for around $60 without other insurance.  As for fertility, it is possible that with proper HCG treatment along with the Testosterone you can maintain your fertility during the treatments.  I've only seen two studies that researched it and both showed it was possible for some.  Earlier this year I tried it myself.  To my surprise my sperm count/quality was actually a little bit better with Test/HCG than it was previously with clomid only.  One data point doesn't prove a theory but it does show that it is possible for some.  The study that I used as a reference showed that 250iu of HCG 3x a week with the testosterone resulted in about 7% decline in fertility while 500iu 3x a week resulting a 14% increase.  Finding a doctor that is will to work with you and try that out is the difficult part.


The latest news from the hormone balancing specialists is that higher estrogen isn't a bad thing.  They had attended some conference and studied the new information.  I don't have any sources for that though.  So while they continue to check my E2 they aren't concerned about lowering it if it is under 75.

Just take pregnenolone.  Its a hormone precursor. It will support various hormones not just DHEA.  No sense in DHEA then unless you want to front load it specifically.  Which most people dont really need. Skip it.

Pregnenolone (3ß-hydroxypregn-5-en-20-one), also known as P5, is an endogenous steroid hormone. It is the precursor of the progestogens, mineralocorticoids, glucocorticoids, androgens, and estrogens, as well as the neuroactive steroids. In addition, pregnenolone is biologically active in its own right, acting as a neurosteroid.[1]

Androgel is for wankers. Total horse shit.  Go TC or go home.

Ive been on DE for less than a week and IDK if I started too fast or Im imagining it but Im feeling dried out inside.  Was doing about 3 G in split doses.  Going to take a few days off and start slower. Or maybe take it every three days or something. Seems like it was doing something so Im hoping I can figure this issue out.


My thoughts are 800 - 900 TT is about the sweet spot. Best mix of quality or life with lowest sides/ wear and tear.  The gains and swagger are fun at 1400, but Im seeing more side effects that Id just assume not deal with.

Some guys are like that but I hypothesize its due to other deficiencies in your body.  If I were you Id get on 25 mg pregnenolone and 800 mg of magnesium malate a day. No guarantees of anything but Id bet youd see some improvements somewhere after 3 months.

I could talk all day on this topic but I would urge everyone to consider this very seriously.  IMO optimizing the microbiome is going to be a game changer.  Like curing diabeetus, depression, and insomnia type of diseases. Ive been working on this topic for the last 16 months. In about ten years I think its going to be huge. As ubiquitous as vitamin c for example.

In addition to gut bacteria, I would be curious as to the effects of yeast as well.

I had pneumonia earlier this year.  IIRC, the doc put me on two different antibiotics and prednisone.  My cravings for sweets and beer went through the roof.  And even now, I still get the munchies bad.

I think I am back to my normal gut flora and fuana.

 
Well in proper fashion I'm getting both.  TC and a testosterone creme.  

You take a tea spoon of DE on an empty stomach ,once per day with 8 oz of what ever liquid masks the taste.

Followed by 8 oz of water, drink a lot of water or you will get constipated.

Start with that level tea spoon ONCE per day  



 

Forgot to add where did you get this info.  I had issues with getting HCG worked into my routine and I suspect it's a timing/dosage issue.  

Keep talking.  Has intrigued me for years but I've not put that much research to it yet.  Suggestions of good pre/probiotics to use that aren't a waste of money for instance.



 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7040256

Serum testosterone increased from basal levels of 8.7 +/- 3.1 ng/ml (mean +/- SEM) to 23.0 +/- 1.4 ng/ml within 2 h of hCG-stimulation and returned to control levels by 2 days. A second, delayed, but significant increase in serum testosterone occurred, reaching a peak of 24.6 +/- 4.0 ng/ml at 3 days and declining to basal values at 5 days.

An eblocker in dosages of more than 1mg per week is needed when you reach a certain number. That's why people see the negative sides when you get that high.

Does anyone on TRT get itchy hands from time to time????

I think its more than just e2 control.  Hematocrit is a significant one for me.

That is a topic that should be every bit as long as this one. These organisms make up 70% of your immune system, inoculate you against allergies/ environmental irritants,  turn certain genes on and off, communicate directly to your brain to control what you crave, manufacture/ help you absorb nutrients, among other things.  

Probiotics are now being considered as mostly worthless.  Fecal transplant is most effective of course. Soil based can work, or go really bad. VSL#3 has some positive studies.  Kombucha has some potential but to what extent? I dont put much stock in prebiotics anymore.  Now probiotics are where its at. My favorites are green bananas, raw potato, potato starch, and Inulin FOS.  Theres many more but those are easy, cheap, no bs.  Some people do psylium but I dont like the texture as much.  My focus is building up a solid baseline with what I have readily available and then consider more exotics down the road.  Primitive man used to get 50 g a day of resistant starch.  Modern man gets almost none.

It was only 3 g.  But not much water with it directly.  Maybe thats important. Did 1 g today, seemed ok.

Yep E2 issue, swollen hands from added water wt makes nerve endings itch from added pressure from water.