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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:34:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laughs in Windows LTSC |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:35:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Windows User Subscription service incoming. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:36:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Fun thread. Mostly BS, but fun.
The Appleseeds have been owned for so long they either just don't know it, or are giddy because MS is going the path. Take an hour or so and invest it in yourself. The internet is full of instruction on how to avoid every whine on here if you will bother to look and can't figure it out for yourself. If you think MS, Apple, Google, or any other provider that doesn't charge you a handsome fee to use the product isn't following you in some manner, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Oh yea, turn your updates back on. You are setting yourself up for the next thread on how your "Crappy W10" machine just was eaten up with unwanted programs and malicious software. W10 has some quirks. It has some tracking, some of it a little more in depth to turn off, but you can. Well, until you sign on to the internet, then all bets are off no matter how good you are, or think you are. It is light (well not so light, but should be amply equipped to handle the load with ease) easy to operate, and user friendly. I hate computers, but had to learn more than I really wanted to know about them, and still don't know much. LOL |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:36:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMHO the bold line is BS. This is a continuous cash cow for developers nothing more, it's not market driven it's fleece the customer driven. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It's not just Microsoft. Everyone is shifting towards a subscription model. It is everywhere. The world is changing. People don't want to pay big price tags up front. They want it free or low monthly payments. Ad-supported or subscription is where it's at. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:37:30 AM EDT
[#5]
I don't use Win 10 anymore, except for LTSC, but when I did I've never had a Win10 signed into a MS account.
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:37:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is my experience as well. Also at my shop I'd buy for example Office xx and use the shit out of it for a long as possible. Only when it gets to be a pain due to compatibility would I upgrade everyone. So the move to subscription everything will significantly increase my IT budget. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:38:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can totally see this happening in the next 10 years. I manage the IT dept at an engineering firm and everything is moving to this model. Autodesk, Adobe, Bentley, etc. have all moved to user subscription. I had to deal with this at the beginning of the year. The software companies require anyone who will use the program to have an account (which I have to create) and then our company has to buy licenses for each employee. For awhile we were getting by with only using one login but we got red flagged. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:38:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, you just don’t understand the horrid garbage known as ‘agile’, and the garbage it allows to be released as MVP. Stay in your swimlane. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:38:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Windows 10 Pro OEM licenses are available for under $15 with code GSL SCDKEYS VIP website Windows 10 Pro OEM Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, they don't. For those not technically competent enough to know the difference, they've made it easier for it to default to ms online accounts. That's not really a bad thing, it makes life easier for them, and it's very easy to make it go the other way if you need it to. Or just don't run Windows 10 Home. 
Quoted:
Win10 Pro..............  |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:40:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a computer that is still running on Windows 7. I disconnected it from the internet.  Yeah, about 20 years old and still running Win 98. Blows my mind that they didn't HAVE to replace it before then, but I guess it wasn't a priority. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:40:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously it's a cash cow for them, or at least they hope it will be. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise. But the market has been moving that way for awhile. Subscription and/or ad-supported services are taking over. Businesses have learned that people are willing to pay a low monthly payment in perpetuity or surrender their privacy or subject themselves to an obscene number of advertisements for things they used to simply buy outright. And it isn't just in the world of computers. Our bill for AutoCAD used to be about $4,000 for the 1st year of a 3-year cycle, then about $450/year the other 2. Now it's $5,700/year every year...to use their subscription. And of course, clients don't feel the need to pay that increase. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:43:58 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, you have literally no idea what you're talking about. This is my profession, I'm a senior software engineer. I write software all day every day, in an "agile" environment, and most people who talk about "agile" have no fucking clue what it is. You are an example. "Agile" doesn't make anyone release bad software. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:46:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you missed the point. Take any one of those people that can't figure out how to make a local account and tell them to switch to Linux. If they even know what a Linux is, they will have no idea how to procure it, install it, and figure out how to make it actually work. ETA The world would be a simpler place if non-computer people just bought Macbooks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you can’t figure out how to make a local Windows account, Linux isn’t the answer.  the only way to set up local account on setup is to not be connected to the internet. and unless you've needed to deal with this before, the knowledge that you have to avoid the internet is not necessarily intuitive to everyone. ETA The world would be a simpler place if non-computer people just bought Macbooks. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:55:13 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem I have is that it's not a "low monthly payment", or eventually won't be. Our bill for AutoCAD used to be about $4,000 for the 1st year of a 3-year cycle, then about $450/year the other 2. Now it's $5,700/year every year...to use their subscription. And of course, clients don't feel the need to pay that increase. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Obviously it's a cash cow for them, or at least they hope it will be. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise. But the market has been moving that way for awhile. Subscription and/or ad-supported services are taking over. Businesses have learned that people are willing to pay a low monthly payment in perpetuity or surrender their privacy or subject themselves to an obscene number of advertisements for things they used to simply buy outright. And it isn't just in the world of computers. Our bill for AutoCAD used to be about $4,000 for the 1st year of a 3-year cycle, then about $450/year the other 2. Now it's $5,700/year every year...to use their subscription. And of course, clients don't feel the need to pay that increase. However, let's look at Microsoft products since we are talking about the possibility of Windows becoming a subscription service. Office 2019 for Business costs $249 to buy outright or $8.25/month to subscribe. You can't see how it might be attractive for a company to buy 100 subscriptions vs. buy 100 copies up front? $25K for Office is a tough pill to swallow every few years when you can get started for $825/month. Also worth noting is that the subscription model is per-user whereas the purchase model is per-install. I have three computers I use for work. So the outright purchase price could easily exceed $25K. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 10:58:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Indian designers and execs have destroyed Microsoft and their products Both of these comments are beyond absurdly uninformed. Stay in your swimlane. It’s garbage, for those who care about appearing busy rather than releasing quality product. Aren’t you late for a scrum? Go educate yourself. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:01:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I need to switch to Linux |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:02:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Install Windows 10 while not connected to the Internet.  |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:03:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you can’t figure out how to make a local Windows account, Linux isn’t the answer. I'm a fan of Windows 10 for the office. I start with a local account that is the oh shit admin access and get all the updates run and anti-virus installed. Then I join it to the domain and load up our in house software and O365. Assuming the O365 install doesn't freak out five times, I don't even wish for an image setup most of the time. It wouldn't work since I don't think any two computers have been the same setup and model in ages for us, but in the Windows 7 days I did wish for it and use it if I bought several identical units. Updates could take a whole day, installs and patches and drivers another half day... Not full time, but it's running next to me while I do other work. Now? Unless O365 has install issues it's mostly delays while I find out from the new hire's manager what shortcuts and such they really need. Not so much that I need to put them in, but so I know what groups to make them members of. I'm just a nice guy and setup shortcuts to things like their most common shares and bookmarks to the usual portals. Personally, I've tried Linux a few times, just never jived with it. Every few months I create a boot drive with another distro and try it out again. We're rapidly getting to where I COULD go that route here if I wasn't a Linux Idiot, but we still have stuff that is only Windows. At home I run one Windows machine, mostly for gaming and general use. Then a Mac mini that is sufficient for my youtube production stuff and general use as well. That's a recent swap, I had an older PC in that spot until a couple weeks ago, but so far I'm happy with it. I ran mac a long time ago and just got away from it because I wanted to be able to game on the same machine as I did everything else. These days that's less of a concern since having a dedicated gaming setup is practical. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:05:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Install shitty windows 10.....check
Run Virtualbox with windows 7 or XP.... Check |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:05:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Ah yes idiots... Like every time Outlook updates it resets my panes to giant email screen and subject lines and hides the received date columnn. Wtf who wants that.
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:09:36 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:16:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah yes idiots... Like every time Outlook updates it resets my panes to giant email screen and subject lines and hides the received date columnn. Wtf who wants that. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:29:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It certainly eschews documentation so even if the software "works" the end user often has to fiddle around to discover "features". |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:36:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Meh. Of course they want you in the cloud. They want you tethered to them, locked in tight as they can get you. Best thing I ever did was switch to Linux at home but in an Enterprise environment Microsoft is dominant and I don't see that changing soon though we use a lot of Linux based servers along with our Microsoft environment.
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:41:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've said this multiple times and its been written in numerous new articles as well. They've already done it with Office , our HUP went from the nice friendly $10 cost to a monthly subscription . As a result a lot of HUP participants have elected to not buy the latest version office. I am still running the 2016 version with no intention of upgrading at the cost of a subscription and FWIW the HUP version isn't all that much cheaper than the version you can get without being a HUP participant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Probably...  As a result a lot of HUP participants have elected to not buy the latest version office. I am still running the 2016 version with no intention of upgrading at the cost of a subscription and FWIW the HUP version isn't all that much cheaper than the version you can get without being a HUP participant. When Office could be purchased for a reasonable one time price, I bought it. When my choices were a subscription or a free alternative from a third party, I chose the free alternative despite it being a lower quality offering. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:44:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MS lost me with Office 365. When Office could be purchased for a reasonable one time price, I bought it. When my choices were a subscription or a free alternative from a third party, I chose the free alternative despite it being a lower quality offering. 
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:47:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryAgile makes total sense for what most paying customers want this day in age. By that I mean, frequent updates with small changes. I get it, it keeps contracts going.
But as an individual, that mentality drives me nuts. I don't want something to be updated frequently, I want it done right the first time. Gradle is a perfect example of a circle-jerk project that can't stop making breaking changes. Rust is an example of a different kind of circle-jerk that has to release major updates multiple times each year. Now the API space is riddled with deprecated members for fundamental shit, like error handling (or the lack thereof). |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:47:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MS lost me with Office 365. When Office could be purchased for a reasonable one time price, I bought it. When my choices were a subscription or a free alternative from a third party, I chose the free alternative despite it being a lower quality offering. Autodesk pretty much forced us to go subscription on AutoCAD though. 
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Posted: 2/26/2020 12:06:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is my experience as well. Also at my shop I'd buy for example Office xx and use the shit out of it for a long as possible. Only when it gets to be a pain due to compatibility would I upgrade everyone. So the move to subscription everything will significantly increase my IT budget. The yearly maintenance for less than a dozen people using NX is $45K. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 12:24:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we're a Microsoft shop and we buy more and more macs everyday. fuck the American corporate policy of "irritate your customer". 
Oh the irony. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 12:24:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know a lot about AutoCAD so maybe you are using some fancy version, but their website lists it as $1500/year with multi-year discounts available. The most expensive package was $2600/year. I could very easily be missing something since I don't use AutoCAD but that's all I see on their website. At any rate, you are paying it so it looks like the market supports it. However, let's look at Microsoft products since we are talking about the possibility of Windows becoming a subscription service. Office 2019 for Business costs $249 to buy outright or $8.25/month to subscribe. You can't see how it might be attractive for a company to buy 100 subscriptions vs. buy 100 copies up front? $25K for Office is a tough pill to swallow every few years when you can get started for $825/month. Also worth noting is that the subscription model is per-user whereas the purchase model is per-install. I have three computers I use for work. So the outright purchase price could easily exceed $25K. And I get it, but most companies aren't buying 100 seats of anything. I'm sure there's a break-even point but it's probably not at 5 seats or 100. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 12:38:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh the irony. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 12:39:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just do dualboot and have both. 
Do you even VMWARE?? |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 12:44:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I cannot speak to his coding ability but he definitely defends microsoft and windows 10 like he is being paid to do it.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Combining these two posts, we get: Sr. software engineer in an agile environment.... Writing shit code all day. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 12:46:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have to have the whole design suite for 5 (I think) seats so it's more than what they advertise online (imagine that). I would love to get away from it but all of our clients use it so we're stuck. And we're not far enough down the road that a likely competitor can feasibly force their way into enough market share to make Autodesk change. And I get it, but most companies aren't buying 100 seats of anything. I'm sure there's a break-even point but it's probably not at 5 seats or 100. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't know a lot about AutoCAD so maybe you are using some fancy version, but their website lists it as $1500/year with multi-year discounts available. The most expensive package was $2600/year. I could very easily be missing something since I don't use AutoCAD but that's all I see on their website. At any rate, you are paying it so it looks like the market supports it. However, let's look at Microsoft products since we are talking about the possibility of Windows becoming a subscription service. Office 2019 for Business costs $249 to buy outright or $8.25/month to subscribe. You can't see how it might be attractive for a company to buy 100 subscriptions vs. buy 100 copies up front? $25K for Office is a tough pill to swallow every few years when you can get started for $825/month. Also worth noting is that the subscription model is per-user whereas the purchase model is per-install. I have three computers I use for work. So the outright purchase price could easily exceed $25K. And I get it, but most companies aren't buying 100 seats of anything. I'm sure there's a break-even point but it's probably not at 5 seats or 100. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 1:03:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not always about breaking even. Sometimes spreading out financial expenditures is the better option even if it costs a little more in the long run. Not all companies are sitting on a pile of cash and can afford to (or want to) pay for everything up front. Plus a lot of the subscription models bundle things like updates, support, and maintenance in with the subscription. Take an MSDN account for example. It offers a hell of a lot more to developers than just a copy of Visual Studio. I realize that it isn't for everyone though. People are just going to have to get used to it because that's the way the market is headed. One reason subs can be so shitty - Autodesk has 2 versions of their subscription service. I can't remember the ins and outs but one of the versions included a clause in the contract that if you cancel your service they retain rights to your current software (obviously) and all previous software suites whether they were subscription or not, digital/online/physical...didnt matter, they wanted it all back. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 1:06:16 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know and I realize I dont have to like it...just have to figure out what rules to play by. One reason subs can be so shitty - Autodesk has 2 versions of their subscription service. I can't remember the ins and outs but one of the versions included a clause in the contract that if you cancel your service they retain rights to your current software (obviously) and all previous software suites whether they were subscription or not, digital/online/physical...didnt matter, they wanted it all back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It's not always about breaking even. Sometimes spreading out financial expenditures is the better option even if it costs a little more in the long run. Not all companies are sitting on a pile of cash and can afford to (or want to) pay for everything up front. Plus a lot of the subscription models bundle things like updates, support, and maintenance in with the subscription. Take an MSDN account for example. It offers a hell of a lot more to developers than just a copy of Visual Studio. I realize that it isn't for everyone though. People are just going to have to get used to it because that's the way the market is headed. One reason subs can be so shitty - Autodesk has 2 versions of their subscription service. I can't remember the ins and outs but one of the versions included a clause in the contract that if you cancel your service they retain rights to your current software (obviously) and all previous software suites whether they were subscription or not, digital/online/physical...didnt matter, they wanted it all back. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 1:06:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have to have the whole design suite for 5 (I think) seats so it's more than what they advertise online (imagine that). I would love to get away from it but all of our clients use it so we're stuck. And we're not far enough down the road that a likely competitor can feasibly force their way into enough market share to make Autodesk change. And I get it, but most companies aren't buying 100 seats of anything. I'm sure there's a break-even point but it's probably not at 5 seats or 100. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 1:11:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is across the board. Things change so quickly that documentation will always lag changes. It's an actual Agile tenet. Which is fine when you have proprietary internal apps for a customer. Not as great for a general release. I have no idea how often i have to google "how do i ...in this software?" And then features get removed or moved, like the OCR capabiluties that used to be embedded in Word that are now supposed to be in One Note, but I can't figure out how to get it to work because the tip i found online applies to a different vetsion. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 2:31:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laughs in Windows LTSC Pair it with Open Shell, and its visually bearable. Its the only version of 10 I run at work and home. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 2:50:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That right there, is the best version of Windows 10. A lot less of the useless bullshit ware (Edge, App store, etc) that M$ tries to shove in 10, a much longer support life span, and no auto update to the newest version of 10 and fuck the registry to death in the process. Pair it with Open Shell, and its visually bearable. Its the only version of 10 I run at work and home. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Laughs in Windows LTSC Pair it with Open Shell, and its visually bearable. Its the only version of 10 I run at work and home. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 2:51:52 PM EDT
[#42]
No, fuck MS accounts.
This is becoming a lot of work to just keep playing a few computer games. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 2:56:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We just had to renew a portion of our Autodesk products. 7-AEC Collection, 8-Autocad LT and 4-Civil 3D all for a whopping 21k. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 2:56:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Laughs at all those who do not understand why they are doing this!
The biggest vulnerability on a workstation is not the OS, software, or hardware glitch it is the END USER! I bet 99% of you all are logged into your computer with full admin rights as well and a great portion of you all would click yes on anything that popped up like the UAC. But what do I know I only deal with dumb users everyday who click links in their email or yes on anything that pops up. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 2:57:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's pretty f'd up unless they gave you a discount on the subscription in exchange for taking ownership of your prior licenses. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 3:07:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Windows 10 Pro OEM licenses are available for under $15 with code GSL SCDKEYS VIP website Windows 10 Pro OEM 
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Posted: 2/26/2020 3:12:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Linux needs to get it's act together and get gaming going identical to Microsoft so I can finally ditch Windows
I want to be able to play Tarkov or AAA games day 1 on Linux with no issues. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 3:22:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not just Microsoft. Everyone is shifting towards a subscription model. It is everywhere. The world is changing. People don't want to pay big price tags up front. They want it free or low monthly payments. Ad-supported or subscription is where it's at. Fuck subscriptions. I want to buy a product and then own it, and never have to interface with the seller again if I choose not to. I don't want microsoft's hands all up in my PC. Sell me an operating system, and then go the fuck away. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 3:44:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I need to switch to Linux |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 4:41:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait until you decide to upgrade your GPU. |
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