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Posted: 10/27/2020 3:15:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The boom latches to the receptacle with hydraulic toggles. There are pilot director lights on the belly of the tanker to direct the receiver in the envelope. In the event a disconnect is needed- usually when the receiver approached the edge of the envelope, disconnect is generally initiated by the receiver aircraft. There is a pneumatic operated independent system installed on the superior tanker (KC-10) The same system is on the inferior tanker (KC-46). 
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Posted: 10/27/2020 3:29:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same system is on the inferior tanker (KC-46). |
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Posted: 10/27/2020 3:40:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I ever ripped a basket off then my plan was to keep it and make a coffee table out of it. I’m not sure I would be allowed to do that but I would have tried. It’s easy to tell the AF that it fell off in the ocean So if you rip the drogue off and it's stuck on your probe and you're transatlantic how screwed are you? |
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Posted: 10/27/2020 3:43:30 PM EDT
[#4]
 Faces Of Death Military Helicopter Inflight Refueling Another pucker moment. |
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Posted: 10/27/2020 3:51:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Curious: are US/western systems (whether boom or probe/drogue) compatible with similar Russian or Chinese systems, and vice-versa? I wondered if there was a universal "standard" for each type.
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Posted: 10/27/2020 3:52:22 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 10/27/2020 4:02:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was involved in some of the flight test of boeing's new boom debacle several years ago. The rate of retraction was inadequate. I seem to recall they finally gave up on that idea and decided to recycle the -10 boom. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The same system is on the inferior tanker (KC-46). It was always based on the KC-10 boom. |
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Posted: 10/27/2020 4:03:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if you rip the drogue off and it's stuck on your probe and you're transatlantic how screwed are you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If I ever ripped a basket off then my plan was to keep it and make a coffee table out of it. I’m not sure I would be allowed to do that but I would have tried. It’s easy to tell the AF that it fell off in the ocean So if you rip the drogue off and it's stuck on your probe and you're transatlantic how screwed are you? The refuel plan includes when to gas receivers so they have enough fuel to divert in case of an AR system failure on either side. |
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Posted: 10/27/2020 4:18:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Curious: are US/western systems (whether boom or probe/drogue) compatible with similar Russian or Chinese systems, and vice-versa? I wondered if there was a universal "standard" for each type. The Indian Air Force is a weird combination of western and eastern gear, so who knows what they have modified......but.....  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/27/2020 4:18:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 10/27/2020 11:44:17 PM EDT
[#11]
OST
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Posted: 10/28/2020 12:11:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OST The lights on the belly also explain something I saw overhead recently. It was low and loud. I'm on a route for ANG out of St Joseph. |
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Posted: 10/28/2020 12:17:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everybody that owns an F-16 can only use a boom. While not everyone owns their own tankers they will work with the US to train their pilots. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What other countries but the US use the boom? Any? Everybody that owns an F-16 can only use a boom. While not everyone owns their own tankers they will work with the US to train their pilots. not anymore 
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Posted: 10/28/2020 11:23:16 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryJudging by the orgy of evidence in the picture that's just an experimental setup at the moment. But holy Hannah! That is one ugly looking modification to the F16! |
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Posted: 10/28/2020 11:33:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Judging by the orgy of evidence in the picture that's just an experimental setup at the moment. But holy Hannah! That is one ugly looking modification to the F16! Quote HistoryQuoted: Judging by the orgy of evidence in the picture that's just an experimental setup at the moment. But holy Hannah! That is one ugly looking modification to the F16! Almost everything in this thread has an implied asterisk.
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Posted: 10/28/2020 12:03:52 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm more impressed that someone actually used the WARPs
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Posted: 10/28/2020 5:29:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [b]Judging by the orgy of evidence in the picture that's just an experimental setup at the moment.b] But holy Hannah! That is one ugly looking modification to the F16! Experimental in 2020? I can recall reading about AF big brains proposing to install probe & drogue capability on F-15s, F-16s and B-1s back in 1995 to expand the possible tanker selection in event of war. Mental picture of a B-1 tanking off an F-18 with buddy pod here.  I'm guessing this is a new go-round of testing a probe & drogue system for a foreign F-16 customer, judging by the conformal fuel tanks that no USAF F-16 uses. |
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Posted: 10/28/2020 10:33:35 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 10/28/2020 10:55:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Experimental in 2020? I can recall reading about AF big brains proposing to install probe & drogue capability on F-15s, F-16s and B-1s back in 1995 to expand the possible tanker selection in event of war. Mental picture of a B-1 tanking off an F-18 with buddy pod here. I'm guessing this is a new go-round of testing a probe & drogue system for a foreign F-16 customer, judging by the conformal fuel tanks that no USAF F-16 uses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: [b]Judging by the orgy of evidence in the picture that's just an experimental setup at the moment.b] But holy Hannah! That is one ugly looking modification to the F16! Experimental in 2020? I can recall reading about AF big brains proposing to install probe & drogue capability on F-15s, F-16s and B-1s back in 1995 to expand the possible tanker selection in event of war. Mental picture of a B-1 tanking off an F-18 with buddy pod here. I'm guessing this is a new go-round of testing a probe & drogue system for a foreign F-16 customer, judging by the conformal fuel tanks that no USAF F-16 uses. Tanking off a B1... And here I thought the Superhornet was an overly ostentatious tanker aircraft. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: I know some planes have their nozzle next near the nose/cockpit, it appears the pilot maneuvers the plane into the funnel. But with F16s, the fuel connection is behind the cockpit. Do the tankers control that fuel line with the ailerons once the f16 is stable near it? Or are adjustments in movement communicated to the pilot? To answer the OP's question, it doesn't matter where the fuel port is, the pilot in the receiving aircraft isn't looking at it. They're looking at the tanker to fly in formation (and trying not to hit it). There are lights on the bottom of the tanker to show aircraft position (Up, Down, Forward, Aft) and the boom operator will fly the boom into position.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:41:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To answer the OP's question, it doesn't matter where the fuel port is, the pilot in the receiving aircraft isn't looking at it. They're looking at the tanker to fly in formation (and trying not to hit it). There are lights on the bottom of the tanker to show aircraft position (Up, Down, Forward, Aft) and the boom operator will fly the boom into position. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/181032/0305638_jpg-1659229.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I know some planes have their nozzle next near the nose/cockpit, it appears the pilot maneuvers the plane into the funnel. But with F16s, the fuel connection is behind the cockpit. Do the tankers control that fuel line with the ailerons once the f16 is stable near it? Or are adjustments in movement communicated to the pilot? To answer the OP's question, it doesn't matter where the fuel port is, the pilot in the receiving aircraft isn't looking at it. They're looking at the tanker to fly in formation (and trying not to hit it). There are lights on the bottom of the tanker to show aircraft position (Up, Down, Forward, Aft) and the boom operator will fly the boom into position. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/181032/0305638_jpg-1659229.JPG Thanks, SoNNNN! Thought you might mention as well the "visual references" but I guess not. Feel free to jump in here. Receiver pilots don't just focus on the lights (they can be hard to see at times), but rather they use reference points on the tanker to keep in position. There are even times where the director lights "lie" in that movement of the boom gives a false reading from the lights. So for many reasons, using visual cues is very important.In the E-3 if we were tanking off a KC-135, we knew if we were forward or aft based on where the tanker's engines were in relation to our windows; where the tanker's "stinger" taillight was in relation to our eyebrow windows (the windows above our heads); and whether we were high or low based on one of the tanker's lower antennas making an inverterted "T"; or the tanker's jackscrew housing on their flaps being barely visible. The yellow stripe on the bottom of the tanker is the only reference for left and right, there are no lights telling the receiver to come left or right. I'm sure other receiver airframes had their own visual cues they looked for as well. When flying formation, you look to match up known points and keep them in the same spot; you keep your scan going and keep all those reference points where they should be to maintain your position. Since the KC-10 was much bigger it has different reference cues. Quoted: The lights on the belly also explain something I saw overhead recently. It was low and loud. I'm on a route for ANG out of St Joseph. The lights are only turned on during air refueling (and pre/post flight checks). They won't be on during cruise, or takeoff/landings. (Correct me if I'm wrong here tanker guys). |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:53:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, SoNNNN! Thought you might mention as well the "visual references" but I guess not. Feel free to jump in here. Receiver pilots don't just focus on the lights (they can be hard to see at times), but rather they use reference points on the tanker to keep in position. There are even times where the director lights "lie" in that movement of the boom gives a false reading from the lights. So for many reasons, using visual cues is very important.In the E-3 if we were tanking off a KC-135, we knew if we were forward or aft based on where the tanker's engines were in relation to our windows; where the tanker's "stinger" taillight was in relation to our eyebrow windows (the windows above our heads); and whether we were high or low based on one of the tanker's lower antennas making an inverterted "T"; or the tanker's jackscrew housing on their flaps being barely visible. The yellow stripe on the bottom of the tanker is the only reference for left and right, there are no lights telling the receiver to come left or right. I'm sure other receiver airframes had their own visual cues they looked for as well. When flying formation, you look to match up known points and keep them in the same spot; you keep your scan going and keep all those reference points where they should be to maintain your position. Since the KC-10 was much bigger it has different reference cues. The lights are only turned on during air refueling (and pre/post flight checks). They won't be on during cruise, or takeoff/landings. (Correct me if I'm wrong here tanker guys). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know some planes have their nozzle next near the nose/cockpit, it appears the pilot maneuvers the plane into the funnel. But with F16s, the fuel connection is behind the cockpit. Do the tankers control that fuel line with the ailerons once the f16 is stable near it? Or are adjustments in movement communicated to the pilot? To answer the OP's question, it doesn't matter where the fuel port is, the pilot in the receiving aircraft isn't looking at it. They're looking at the tanker to fly in formation (and trying not to hit it). There are lights on the bottom of the tanker to show aircraft position (Up, Down, Forward, Aft) and the boom operator will fly the boom into position. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/181032/0305638_jpg-1659229.JPG Thanks, SoNNNN! Thought you might mention as well the "visual references" but I guess not. Feel free to jump in here. Receiver pilots don't just focus on the lights (they can be hard to see at times), but rather they use reference points on the tanker to keep in position. There are even times where the director lights "lie" in that movement of the boom gives a false reading from the lights. So for many reasons, using visual cues is very important.In the E-3 if we were tanking off a KC-135, we knew if we were forward or aft based on where the tanker's engines were in relation to our windows; where the tanker's "stinger" taillight was in relation to our eyebrow windows (the windows above our heads); and whether we were high or low based on one of the tanker's lower antennas making an inverterted "T"; or the tanker's jackscrew housing on their flaps being barely visible. The yellow stripe on the bottom of the tanker is the only reference for left and right, there are no lights telling the receiver to come left or right. I'm sure other receiver airframes had their own visual cues they looked for as well. When flying formation, you look to match up known points and keep them in the same spot; you keep your scan going and keep all those reference points where they should be to maintain your position. Since the KC-10 was much bigger it has different reference cues. Quoted: The lights on the belly also explain something I saw overhead recently. It was low and loud. I'm on a route for ANG out of St Joseph. The lights are only turned on during air refueling (and pre/post flight checks). They won't be on during cruise, or takeoff/landings. (Correct me if I'm wrong here tanker guys). The lights aren't normally turned on until pre-AR. But even then only the background would be on until the boomer either manually activates the light at one of the extreme ends of the PDI or the automatic system turns on after contact. PDIs are so important for refueling that they aren't required equipment.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:12:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, the basket and probe is Navy, the pilot guides his probe into the hole. In the Air Force, the pilot has the hole and he gets a probe inserted into it. So, the Navy has a big cock and the Air Force takes it in the ass? 
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:52:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, the Navy has a big cock and the Air Force takes it in the ass? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, the basket and probe is Navy, the pilot guides his probe into the hole. In the Air Force, the pilot has the hole and he gets a probe inserted into it. So, the Navy has a big cock and the Air Force takes it in the ass? My jet is well equipped. If we are flexing with AR equipment then then the Navy better bring a strong personality to the game.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:49:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PDIs are so important for refueling that they aren't required equipment. We got one back from depot once and it flew refuel missions almost two months till someone wrote up pdi lights very dim. Depot forgot to mask off lenses and just painted everything black.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:03:24 PM EDT
[#26]
The stab and jab dance of a MC130 and a MH53J was an experience. On the right wing is even better!
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:26:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I heard, female boom operators like to flash their tits at refueling fighters. Had a friend tell a story a while ago of an air force girl he knew who had the boom receptacle aiming lines (similar to the pic below, not sure of what they're called) tattooed as a tramp stamp. 
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:29:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had a friend tell a story a while ago of an air force girl he knew who had the boom receptacle aiming lines (similar to the pic below, not sure of what they're called) tattooed as a tramp stamp.https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John_Valasek/publication/245433452/figure/fig1/AS:298262423719940@1448122711872/figure-fig1_Q320.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I heard, female boom operators like to flash their tits at refueling fighters. Had a friend tell a story a while ago of an air force girl he knew who had the boom receptacle aiming lines (similar to the pic below, not sure of what they're called) tattooed as a tramp stamp.https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John_Valasek/publication/245433452/figure/fig1/AS:298262423719940@1448122711872/figure-fig1_Q320.jpg That's pretty good actually.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:33:44 PM EDT
[#29]
I guess it can be said that real pilots have a tail hook and a probe.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:34:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As often as US Forces Mid Air Refuel and make it look "easy" & "routine", it is still very sobering to realize just HOW dangerous it is to have two aircraft flying so close to each other with highly flammable jet fuel 'bridging' the small gap. The Palomares Spain B-52 "Nuclear Incident" in 1966 comes to mind... a Fully Combat loaded B-52 on Airborne Nuclear Alert collided over Spain with it's KC-135 tanker while mid air refueling. It resulted in destruction of both aircraft and a "Broken Arrow" with 4 live B-28 Hydrogen bombs going down with the B-52. Three of the bombs fell over the Spainish countryside and were recovered, but two of the bombs had their explosives go off which scattered highly radioactive Plutonium over the countryside. One bomb's parachute had opened on the descent, and that bomb drifted into the ocean, and was finally recovered after an extensive & expensive deep sea search & retrieval. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Palomares_B-52_crash Totally unrelated trivia: the recovery of the fourth weapon was the incident that resulted in Carl Brashear, the first black Navy diver, losing his leg. His (true) story is the inspiration for the movie "Men of Honor." |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:37:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if you rip the drogue off and it's stuck on your probe and you're transatlantic how screwed are you? Fucked, probably have a divert in the Atlantic. Now the Pacific.......you gonna Castaway it |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 9:10:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: I guess it can be said that real pilots have a tail hook and a probe. No always,  like if your in a chahpah that has had a bris(well more like a Lorena Bobbitt). Attached FileThis was the norm in the 80's on CH-53E's when I was in the "Suck". |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 10:59:40 PM EDT
[#33]
How do probe and drogue refuelings work at night? How does the pilot see the drogue? Does he have NGV's or is everything lit up? - and wouldn't that pose some additional risks on a clear night where light can travel really far?
-K |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 11:58:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do probe and drogue refuelings work at night? How does the pilot see the drogue? Does he have NGV's or is everything lit up? - and wouldn't that pose some additional risks on a clear night where light can travel really far? -K On the 135 we have a floodlight at the tip of the vertical stab for when the boom drogue adaptor is being used. On the MPRS jets there are floodlights under the horizontal stab that light up the basket area. The receiver also has a probe light. The real magic is that they fly formation with specific visual queues (for each type of tanker) so they know pretty much where they need to be. ETA: All of our exterior lights are incandescent, fluorescent, or strobes. None of them are particularly NVG friendly. |
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Posted: 10/30/2020 4:43:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the 135 we have a floodlight at the tip of the vertical stab for when the boom drogue adaptor is being used. On the MPRS jets there are floodlights under the horizontal stab that light up the basket area. The receiver also has a probe light. The real magic is that they fly formation with specific visual queues (for each type of tanker) so they know pretty much where they need to be. ETA: All of our exterior lights are incandescent, fluorescent, or strobes. None of them are particularly NVG friendly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How do probe and drogue refuelings work at night? How does the pilot see the drogue? Does he have NGV's or is everything lit up? - and wouldn't that pose some additional risks on a clear night where light can travel really far? -K On the 135 we have a floodlight at the tip of the vertical stab for when the boom drogue adaptor is being used. On the MPRS jets there are floodlights under the horizontal stab that light up the basket area. The receiver also has a probe light. The real magic is that they fly formation with specific visual queues (for each type of tanker) so they know pretty much where they need to be. ETA: All of our exterior lights are incandescent, fluorescent, or strobes. None of them are particularly NVG friendly. Gotcha. Thank you. -K |
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Posted: 10/30/2020 4:51:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The stab and jab dance of a MC130 and a MH53J was an experience. On the right wing is even better! What was worse was trying to refuel from a KC-130. Those guys wouldn’t turn their damn lights off!. |
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