User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 4:41:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The “facts” are in our favor... As far as the “cult” insult is concerned. The pre-creed Christian Church shared many of the central core beliefs as the Latter-Day Church. And the same insult was used then. Study the pre-creed Christian Church. If you follow Christ, that is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
People don't think facts be like they is but they do. As far as the “cult” insult is concerned. The pre-creed Christian Church shared many of the central core beliefs as the Latter-Day Church. And the same insult was used then. Study the pre-creed Christian Church. If you follow Christ, that is. No Christian Church believes that God was once a mortal man who became a God due to his own devices. None, zero, zilch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 4:41:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Well I guess that will stop the wagon train massacres
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 4:42:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do not agree with the Mormon Churches take on theology or their Book of Mormon. And I have family members who are Mormon, who will not even talk or associate with me. But I do have colleagues who are Mormon and they are really great to work with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 4:43:31 PM EDT
[#4]
I lost a friend at the Wedgwood Baptist shooting in Ft Worth.
No way would I go to church while not carrying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 4:52:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Edited~ medicmandan
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 4:53:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I guess that will stop the wagon train massacres Haun's (Hawn's) Mill |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 4:58:35 PM EDT
[#7]
When I did my Utah permit the only church prohibited was The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.Utah church firearms prohibition. That was 8 years ago. I know it has been policy for many many years. They just changed the wording to be less ambiguous. It used to read something like, carrying deadly weapons on church property is inappropriate. They have now changed it to prohibited. Nothing really new. A few years ago it read not allowed.
We had the discussion at our early meeting yesterday. Our Leadership will follow the instruction. That is unless we are given personal approval from the proper authority. It can and does happen. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:05:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Wow this thread made it to page 5 with no lock.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:07:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I lost a friend at the Wedgwood Baptist shooting in Ft Worth. No way would I go to church while not carrying. Almost forgot about that one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:07:57 PM EDT
[#10]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:13:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only thing more fucking boring than the ultra religious is militant atheists |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:17:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Meh. It’s been “policy” for a long time and yet I still do it. I couldn’t expect anyone to stop carrying anyways. If you’re doing it right, no one should know you’re carrying.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:18:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As each generation becomes further and further separated by time and culture from the pioneer era, we may see a shift from the culturally pro-2A influences. I still know tons of very pro-2A folks within the Church membership, but how strong that influence is varies from location to location. Also, as the Church itself has become increasingly international, I suspect that it wants to avoid an image of promoting firearms among its members to avoid potential issues with governments overseas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My old boss was a Mormon and an absolutely wonderful guy. He was VERY pro 2A and told me that generally Mormons are pro 2A- something about always being persecuted. I guess this move kinda surprises me. Maybe SJW are taking over? Also, as the Church itself has become increasingly international, I suspect that it wants to avoid an image of promoting firearms among its members to avoid potential issues with governments overseas. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:23:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would that be considered a sin then? Or is it considered more an administrative issue and not a moral one? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:25:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would that be considered a sin then? Or is it considered more an administrative issue and not a moral one? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:26:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Seems unwise to announce such a thing.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:27:39 PM EDT
[#17]
COC#1 comment removed by Taft
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:28:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Non issue" Who knew it would be so easy to get arfcommers to support gun free zones? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:30:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Enough with the "cult" crap. That is inaccurate and offensive to good people. Is Mormonism properly defined as a cult? I agree with the author that calling religions such as practiced by Mormons a cult is insulting and marginalizing and does no one any good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:30:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The massacre at Mountain Meadows was a horrible crime, unique to the circumstances around it at a remote town community. It wasn't ordered by the upper Church leadership and when it was discovered at least one local person involved was convicted by his peers and hanged for the massacre. IMO, others deserved the same treatment but there's no going back in time to address that now. That incident doesn't have any real relevancy to the current discussion. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:31:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Honest question. Will the average male LD Saint choose dogma over the security of his family?
What is the highest calling? Fighting for your family or spreading the dogma? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:31:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simply not true. No Christian Church believes that God was once a mortal man who became a God due to his own devices. None, zero, zilch. And we don’t teach that in any official doctrinal source. The pre-creed Church did believe and teach that mortals can become like God. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:36:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honest question. Will the average male LD Saint choose dogma over the security of his family? What is the highest calling? Fighting for your family or spreading the dogma? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:37:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shot by firing squad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:37:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Administrative. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:39:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: COC#1 comment removed by Taft cult /k?lt/ Learn to pronounce noun a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf" a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. "a network of Satan-worshiping cults" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:43:04 PM EDT
[#27]
I’ve always thought it was tough growing up in the Bible Belt as a Roman Catholic in the 50s-70s.
I am no longer RC. And I am in no danger of joining the LDS. But, damn, the Mormons catch all kinds of shit in GD. Don’t like them, take it to the religion forum. As for Texas, I’ve been carrying in religious services here for years. I’m damn sure not alone. We have armed guards, but dumb shits suck at risk assessment. We had a guy attack a church up here years ago. An off-duty female cop killed him as soon as he got in the door. Prior to that, a bunch of people in the FW area got shot during a Wednesday night service. People thought it was a skit and some jumped us and yelled “Shoot me!” He shot them. After that, a lot more people started packing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:44:48 PM EDT
[#28]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:48:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If church prohibition makes concealed carry in church breaking the law would that not be breaking the rules of law that LDS members are called to uphold in church teachings? I've already explained how the Utah law works, but I will again in case anyone else missed it the first time: 1. Utah law says that guns are prohibited on church property. 2. If I were to carry a concealed firearm onto church property and somebody somehow noticed and got upset (many wouldn't), then I could excuse myself and remove the firearm from the church property. Up to that point there are no criminal consequences. 3. If I didn't excuse myself, or if I wasn't aware that somebody had noticed and was upset, then the moment anyone (a bishop or other local Church leader) brought it to my attention I would again have the opportunity to excuse myself and remove the firearm from the property. Again, up to that point there is no criminal consequences. 4. If, after being told that I need to remove the firearm, I insist on keeping it with me on Church property, then I could be held accountable for the crime of trespassing. In short, this is very easily handled and diffused if anyone were to make an issue of it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:49:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://i.imgur.com/p6cf7P6.gif |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:51:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good point...there are however "differences" between Mormonism & Evangelical Christianity Is Mormonism properly defined as a cult? I agree with the author that calling religions such as practiced by Mormons a cult is insulting and marginalizing and does no one any good. It got wrong that we are trying to be or appear as a post-creed “evangelical” Church. Our teachings and beliefs coincide with the pre-creed Church of Jesus Christ. We have little in common with the post-creed churches... and we have never claimed to have anything in common with them... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:53:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDGAF what foreign governments think about our gun rights. The Mormon Church shouldn't either It is a mandate from God. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:56:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
COC#1 ~MIAMI_JBT They were "cultists" per the antagonists to The Church... Same as the Latter-Day Church... Study and research the early Church. You will find many of the core beliefs (and not just the insult) coincide with the Latter-Day Church. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:57:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://i.imgur.com/p6cf7P6.gif One of the few who is standing-the-line on gun rights against the “Take the guns first” swamp right now... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 5:58:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whether anyone will comply isn't the question, it's the fact that the Church is taking sides on this argument and making it more than just a localized policy that they petitioned for in Utah. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That won’t stop anyone who conceal carries at church. Won’t stop anyone I know. Non story. 2. Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing - Robert Conquest |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:01:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were run out because Joseph Smith had one of the largest armed formations in the US at the time, which was used to intimidate their neighbors and eventually burn down a newspaper that published unflattering things about Smith, who BTW, died falling out of a window after shooting a couple of guys (his 34 wives were sad I bet). They were persona non-grata for a reason. As it was, they ran the Utah territory like a bunch of thugs, which culminated in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The actual history isn't the rosy picture published by the church. But I'm sure the Roo will be here soon to call us all liars and liberals before praising Mitt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:03:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Conservatives always support private property rights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: "Non issue" Who knew it would be so easy to get arfcommers to support gun free zones? But having the right doesn’t make it right. Bad guys with guns are only stopped by good guys with guns. It’s amazing that you have to remind people of that fact around here. Almost like they’re being intentionally obtuse in order to avoid an uncomfortable reality. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:06:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mods have already warned people to quit being insulting but I guess you can't bother to read the CoC or the thread. You also need to read up on the definition of the word cult. cult /k?lt/ Learn to pronounce noun a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf" a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. "a network of Satan-worshiping cults" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don’t care what cultists do. cult /k?lt/ Learn to pronounce noun a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf" a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. "a network of Satan-worshiping cults" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:07:19 PM EDT
[#39]
My LDS friend who wishes to remain anonymous says:
I will not comply and this is just like the time Brigham Young took the Priesthood away from the Black members of the church. It was the actions of man then, as it is now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:11:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your church has every right to be anti gun. But having the right doesn’t make it right. Bad guys with guns are only stopped by good guys with guns. It’s amazing that you have to remind people of that fact around here. Almost like they’re being intentionally obtuse in order to avoid an uncomfortable reality. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:20:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't know about the falling out a window thing. I did read a book of an investigation into Joseph Smith/Mormons that was written back in like, the 1830's or 1840's something, and it pretty well exposes how corrupt Smith was. It was a good read. He was a slimey guy, swindling people and out to find treasure or get rich. He brought his and his brother's death upon himself. He probably didn't seriously think people would get so fed up with his crap. They did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They were run out because Joseph Smith had one of the largest armed formations in the US at the time, which was used to intimidate their neighbors and eventually burn down a newspaper that published unflattering things about Smith, who BTW, died falling out of a window after shooting a couple of guys (his 34 wives were sad I bet). They were persona non-grata for a reason. As it was, they ran the Utah territory like a bunch of thugs, which culminated in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The actual history isn't the rosy picture published by the church. But I'm sure the Roo will be here soon to call us all liars and liberals before praising Mitt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:20:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Gun violence has reached Latter-day Saint facilities as recently as this past July, when a man entered a Nevada meetinghouse and murdered someone in the middle of sacrament meeting. In the wake of the shooting, the Church reiterated its stance on guns in its buildings, citing the previous version of the Handbook text. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:24:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The pre-creed Church did believe and teach that mortals can become like God. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:25:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, there is a law. The law is that if someone notices you carrying a gun in one of the Church buildings and complains about it, the local leaders can ask you to remove the firearm from the premises. If you refuse to take the firearm out of the Church building then hypothetically the police could be called and you could be charged with trespassing. Not overly burdensome to deal with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It’s not a law in Utah. They just ask members to not carry. And everyone ignores it and carries anyways Not overly burdensome to deal with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:29:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Mormons I work with are some of the most strapped and readied up men I know. You oughta' see their food storage! No guns in church but I bet they have armed guards. Think Danite’s from early church days. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:32:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely true. As has been manifested in this very thread, many Church members here are themselves conflicted about this policy and will sort through it without any need for you to project character traits on them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Your church has every right to be anti gun. But having the right doesn’t make it right. Bad guys with guns are only stopped by good guys with guns. It’s amazing that you have to remind people of that fact around here. Almost like they’re being intentionally obtuse in order to avoid an uncomfortable reality. What character traits have I “projected” on anyone? You should check out this thread. Learn from people who stand up for what they believe in. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Firearms-and-a-crisis-of-faith/5-2246131/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:32:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow this thread made it to page 5 with no lock. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:43:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ever condones bishops living in homosexual lifestyles, instead of being in a heterosexual marriage as a prerequisite to being a bishop, by all means you are invited to rub my face in it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:44:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol What character traits have I "projected" on anyone? You should check out this thread. Learn from people who stand up for what they believe in. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Firearms-and-a-crisis-of-faith/5-2246131/ But I sense that there wouldn't be any satisfying you so long as I stay true to my faith, and I'm not interested in appeasing you, anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2019 6:51:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You suggested that people of my faith may be "intentionally obtuse" and then double down by suggesting that I need to "learn from people who stand up for what they believe in" as if I don't. But I sense that there wouldn't be any satisfying you so long as I stay true to my faith, and I'm not interested in appeasing you, anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Lol What character traits have I "projected" on anyone? You should check out this thread. Learn from people who stand up for what they believe in. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Firearms-and-a-crisis-of-faith/5-2246131/ But I sense that there wouldn't be any satisfying you so long as I stay true to my faith, and I'm not interested in appeasing you, anyway. You trying to pretend that me pointing out your church’s obviously anti gun policy as an attack on your faith is just another ad hoc excuse you’re making to maintain your cognitive dissonance on this issue. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
