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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:46:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I mean the 320 does fire the longer rounds...but so did the side loading 203 type launcher that was offered. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whoever thinks that replacing the 203 with the 320 was a good idea, for either branch, is fucking retarded. You know what I have seen? I've seen that the 320, while ok in stand alone configuration, when mounted to an m4 renders both the rifle and the grenade launcher all but unusable. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:47:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M27 is a waste of money. HK really must have good lobbyists to get the USMC and France to adopt an overpriced piston AR. And the USMC went full dildos taking beltfeds out of the squad entirely  I guess it's that a full squad of fully-automatic weapons is deemed a better force than semi-auto support for belt-fed gunners. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:50:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Somebody @ that gunner.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:55:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done a fair amount of shit in a few types of units with vastly different funding and I've never seen a round I wanted to use that didn't fit in a 203. You know what I have seen? I've seen that the 320, while ok in stand alone configuration, when mounted to an m4 renders both the rifle and the grenade launcher all but unusable. Best of both worlds, optimizing both weapons, or a step in the wrong direction? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:56:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about a Mk18 and a stand-alone modernized M79-type launcher? Break-open like the old bloop tube, but use modern materials (read: polymers) to keep weight down, and add a dedicated optic. Best of both worlds, optimizing both weapons, or a step in the wrong direction? 
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:58:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, so you just skipped the entire thread? You must have if you think the only valid complaint is the scope. This platform is a known entity to us. Had to be the ammo, the cans, or the idiot who decided on putting those (particular) two together with the 416. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:59:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we will never fight in jungle or forests again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: All that will be great when we fire up the time machine and go to Helmand 10 years ago! OR we should just got full Steinhab and scrap ALL near peer weapons procurement and always plan for fighting against people who haven't invented the wheel yet. Nevermind that it's far easier to transition from procuring and training to fight a powerful high tech military to fighting a low tech one with those things vs producuring and training to fight cavemen and then finding you have to deal with a near peer enemy.... |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:02:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What about a Mk18 and a stand-alone modernized M79-type launcher? Break-open like the old bloop tube, but use modern materials (read: polymers) to keep weight down, and add a dedicated optic. Best of both worlds, optimizing both weapons, or a step in the wrong direction? https://i.redd.it/i6xegpwl70i01.jpg |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:29:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My engineering education, USMC tests, and I have shot a 416D yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You say this based upon your direct experience with the M27 or outside opinion/conjecture? |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:32:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever thinks that replacing the 203 with the 320 was a good idea, for either branch, is fucking retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And the M320 40mm grenade launcher used by the grenadier is made by Heckler und Koch as well. They make good stuff. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:37:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Is this the appropriate thread to tell everyone get got some M38 in the other day... took some out to the range and tinkered with them. Only shot A059 so no feedback on bolt over brass with genm3 mags. Lots of fun to shoot, pretty quiet too... reminded me how much of a PITA MOA/MIL conversion is.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:47:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Combat systems operator is where you put the newly minted female infantry Marine. She won't be able to pull her own weight in a Firetewm, so putting her under the immediate protection of the Squad Leader is smart, and convenient since he'll be fucking her too. This new special billet also allows the female Marine to "excell" in the infantry. 4.9/4.9 motherfuckers. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:49:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somebody @ that gunner. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:51:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I question the methodology behind reliability testing data. This platform is a known entity to us. Had to be the ammo, the cans, or the idiot who decided on putting those (particular) two together with the 416. Better get used to what it does to the M27. Same goes for mk262, known standard that the M27 doesn't run well. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:53:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 416D is the 10 inch and is not a M27. All that other stuff is cool but unless you're a current 03XX Marine who regularly handles an M27 then it's opinion and conjecture. |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:53:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many rounds have you fired with a 320? Time with one? Exercises? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: And the M320 40mm grenade launcher used by the grenadier is made by Heckler und Koch as well. They make good stuff. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:02:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are stand alone mounts for the 203, as well. The form factor for them is much, much better than the 320. Truth be told, 40mm HE/HEDP performs terribly in the open as is. Rifle mounted grenade launchers make doing either task exponentially more difficult. Force me to have a 40mm grenade launching capability for dead space coverage or punching into enclaves, and I'll take a stand alone M203 any day over the M320. As for the rest, yes, the M249s were terrible, and some folks still have an inability to let go of it emotionally without a true awareness of its performance deficiencies. Folks predicting doom seem to be unaware of the IAR success in battle over the last 10 years, and routinely disregard the existence of combined arms in MCO. The M249 is old news, dead, and unneeded. The answer is to make current capabilities inherent to the M240X family come in a smaller and lighter package. Think the KAC LAMG in poly cased 6.5 CM with a 1-8 optic on top. Issue that to machine gun teams and make them an additional team to be led by the APL (doing additional duties, can't really discuss here) - NOW we're talking. The M27 has done a fantastic job bringing us out of the stone age and validating the AR methodology/position, especially when firing SOST and M855. It has major downsides as time goes on, but that doesn't make it all bad. Tired. Hitting the rack. S/F |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:28:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's your take on all the Army/USMC testing coming out showing the M27/38 doesn't meet standards? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The 416D is the 10 inch and is not a M27. All that other stuff is cool but unless you're a current 03XX Marine who regularly handles an M27 then it's opinion and conjecture. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:29:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would my answers to any of those questions change anything? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: And the M320 40mm grenade launcher used by the grenadier is made by Heckler und Koch as well. They make good stuff. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:30:10 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know, I'm going to trust the people with skin in the game at places like Marine Corps Combat Development Center, Quantico, VA, the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center, 29 Palms, CA and where ever else to work the bugs out of the system. Maybe its a boondoggle, maybe its the best thing since slide bread. We tweaked the original M-16 for 50 years. Here's to another 50! |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:33:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't get it. We are taking a man from the team, but it's better since they all have full-auto rifles....? Instead of the M27 replacing a belt fed, its now replacing the M4/M16 as a whole....but since everyone shoots the same mags/caliber, they all just have to carry more ammo? Now we're adding chicks with iPads to the mix? |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:38:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know, I'm going to trust the people with skin in the game at places like Marine Corps Combat Development Center, Quantico, VA, ..... to work the bugs out of the system. That place is removed from reality, as evidenced by their patting themselves on the back after fielding the PRC117G radio over a decade behind others, and now attempting to do the same to an 11-year old rifle, using a 15+ year old suppressor and a 10+ year old optic. You can trust them to maintain the status quo and kill innovative programs that would mean the entrenched GS15s and 14s actually have to do real work. Its also the only place I've ever seen that somehow LtCols have their leave requests go through a GS15 with no actual legal authority for processing. It is the epicenter of insanity. The Corps would have an exponential leap in operational efficiency if SECDEF, SECNAV, or CMC were to unleash Seabees on that building with a fleet of bulldozers... and level it to the ground. S/F |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:46:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever thinks that replacing the 203 with the 320 was a good idea, for either branch, is fucking retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And the M320 40mm grenade launcher used by the grenadier is made by Heckler und Koch as well. They make good stuff.  Raytheon Pike 40 mm Precision Guided Munition for the First Time at AUSA 2015 Washington DC U.S. 
Yes, 5M kill radius, laser-guided, 2 km max effective range from the either the M320 or FNH MK13 grenade launchers. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 12:50:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol This. Expecting things to always be 100% perfect is a stupidly unrealistic expectation. Things will be tested, fielded, and tweaked. It's reality.
And it doesn't even work suppressed with Mk262. Comeon guys. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 1:01:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it would alter your statements to either being opinion/conjecture or anecdotal field evidence. They suck (obviously just my opinion) mounted because the balance shifts very far forward and there's 87 grips hanging off the bottom to grab onto everything within arms reach. I would happily carry a SAW before I carried an M4/M320 combo. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 1:36:05 AM EDT
[#26]
3 man fire teams?
wtf |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 7:42:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3 man fire teams? wtf |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 7:46:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
False. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: All that will be great when we fire up the time machine and go to Helmand 10 years ago! |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 8:31:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where possibly? Phillipines, Indonesia, Africa, South America, Central America |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 8:49:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gee. I don't know. Phillipines, Indonesia, Africa, South America, Central America Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Where possibly? Phillipines, Indonesia, Africa, South America, Central America We already forgot everything we learned in Iraq. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 8:55:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, all future wars will be fought against non-state actors that exploit our lack of maneuverability in terrain similar to Helmand. We already forgot everything we learned in Iraq. Only hits count. Marines should have this or they are going to die. Outranged by Taliban with Moisin Nagants and Lee-Enfields. Until we can be more precise at the individual rifleman level, we will never win in Afghanistan 
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:01:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gee. I don't know. Phillipines, Indonesia, Africa, South America, Central America |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:02:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Suppression is a lie. Only hits count. Marines should have this or they are going to die. Outranged by Taliban with Moisin Nagants and Lee-Enfields. Until we can be more precise at the individual rifleman level, we will never win in Afghanistan
http://www.hallowellco.com/ballard-griebel-left.jpg |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:05:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dont really see us going to war in the Philippines, africa or south america in my lifetime, but ok. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Gee. I don't know. Phillipines, Indonesia, Africa, South America, Central America It’s just not a conventional war until it is. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:07:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rifle mounted grenade launchers make doing either task exponentially more difficult. Force me to have a 40mm grenade launching capability for dead space coverage or punching into enclaves, and I'll take a stand alone M203 any day over the M320. S/F A “small bullet launcher” and a “small grenade launcher” allows each respective weapon to do its job better than trying to join the two together into a “bullet and grenade launcher. You’re only handling/aiming the weapon you actually need, and stuff like aiming optics and weapon controls can be optimized rather than “being made to work” around the other weapon. Having to switch weapons makes for a slower first round of 40mm, but it should also be more accurately placed, and follow-up grenades should be faster with the dedicated launcher. The simple break-open M79 form factor, with modern materials, optics, and auto-ejection (like most break-open shotguns) would be optimum for using the 40mm system. Compact, easy to carry in a simple “scabbard”, rate of fire could be higher than any other system other than the Milkor-type repeaters, which are big and heavy. Now, I think Mk18 + iMortar would be an even better solution, but that’s a whole different thread derail....  iMortar Lightweight, Manpackable 60mm Mortar and Ammo at SOFIC 2015 |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:08:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, one thing the M320 CAN do that the 203 could not is fire this bad boy; gentlemen I present to thee the Raytheon 40mm grenade launched guided missile:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vftDTZChRQw
https://www.raytheon.com/sites/default/files/2017-09/pike_body_img_01.jpg https://www.raytheon.com/sites/default/files/styles/lightbox_gallery/public/2018-01/pike_pic_01_lg.jpg?itok=dUcO6qx0 Yes, 5M kill radius, laser-guided, 2 km max effective range from the either the M320 or FNH MK13 grenade launchers. Raytheon Pike 40 mm Precision Guided Munition for the First Time at AUSA 2015 Washington DC U.S. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:16:05 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 416D is the 10 inch and is not a M27. All that other stuff is cool but unless you're a current 03XX Marine who regularly handles an M27 then it's opinion and conjecture. And firing a 416D is an accurate representation of the weapon system in the same way shooting a MK18 is with an M4. It's close enough to understand how the system operates, behaves, and feels like. The 416D is a pig, by the way. I can't imagine humping around a 13+lb M27 kitted out. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:19:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know, I'm going to trust the people with skin in the game at places like Marine Corps Combat Development Center, Quantico, VA, the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center, 29 Palms, CA and where ever else to work the bugs out of the system. Maybe its a boondoggle, maybe its the best thing since slide bread. We tweaked the original M-16 for 50 years. Here's to another 50! Take a URG-I, give it an heavy barrel, Surefire bolt carrier group, and suppressor. Slap a 1-8 optic, and a bipod on it. Boom. Better IAR. Slightly modify that, and boom. Better DMR. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:48:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dont really see us going to war in the Philippines, africa or south america in my lifetime, but ok. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:52:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We are slinging lead right now in them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I dont really see us going to war in the Philippines, africa or south america in my lifetime, but ok. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 10:07:35 AM EDT
[#41]
I would still rather have a good old fashion M16-A4......
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Posted: 5/16/2018 10:15:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Finally there will be someone responsible for squad level printer repairs.
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Posted: 5/16/2018 10:27:10 AM EDT
[#43]
Not personally involved in any of this, but I've been following SYSCOM for a while, and I love what they are doing:
-Fire teams going from 4 to 3 man. -Every Marine gets full auto fire, plus optics, bipods, and (most significantly) suppressors. -High cut helmets with integrated ear pro/ comms -Systems Operators at the Squad Level -Squad level Joint Fires Observers capable of executing their own fire missions. I'm not in the weeds with M27/38 development so I'll skip that. What gets me going is this Systems Operator. Let's look at two of the most likely picks, the Snipe or the Wasp:  Attached File Attached FileThe Marines are putting joint fires into the hands of Squad Leaders. That's tremendous. These drone operators are going to be doing a lot more than just playing on iPads. We're going from squads with auto rifles, belt-feds, SMAWs, and rifle-mounted GLs, to squads with automatic rifle fire, recoilless CGs with HEDP/HEAT, organic aerial ISR, and JFOs integrated through JTACs providing full air support. You're talking about your E-5 Buck SGT, being able to: -Direct his personal drone to a specific location -ID targets -Supress them with rifle fire -Keep eyes-on in real time while -Blowing it up with the equivalent of an artillery shell, OR -Call it in and direct fires to eliminate the threat. ...and this isn't even an Officer. This is a junior NCO. Holy MOSES. This right here? THIS is the future:  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 10:30:11 AM EDT
[#44]
what indirect-fire assets does the Marine Corps intend to place in direct support of a Marine rifle squad? Will they have a mortar section dedicated to supporting them? Are they gonna route their calls for fire through the Fire Support Officer at Plt/Co level?
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Posted: 5/16/2018 10:54:57 AM EDT
[#45]
How long until the integration of the UAV with a laser targeting system for the MAAWS or the M203 ?
I couldn't find any info |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 11:15:33 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What about a Mk18 and a stand-alone modernized M79-type launcher? Break-open like the old bloop tube, but use modern materials (read: polymers) to keep weight down, and add a dedicated optic. Best of both worlds, optimizing both weapons, or a step in the wrong direction? https://i.redd.it/i6xegpwl70i01.jpg The AF has a shitload of them. If the Army had any sense, they'd have purchased those for the units they felt needed the ability to swap between under-barrel and standalone, and just left the 203s. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 11:24:38 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M27 has been fielded for 10 years now?
And it doesn't even work suppressed with Mk262. Comeon guys. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: lol This. Expecting things to always be 100% perfect is a stupidly unrealistic expectation. Things will be tested, fielded, and tweaked. It's reality.
And it doesn't even work suppressed with Mk262. Comeon guys. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 11:30:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why in the shit would you want to waste money, time, and resources in weapons development for a platform with 1920s era operating components, when USASOC has weapons IN INVENTORY that have been tested, issued, and are known to be better weapons in testing. Take a URG-I, give it an heavy barrel, Surefire bolt carrier group, and suppressor. Slap a 1-8 optic, and a bipod on it. Boom. Better IAR. Slightly modify that, and boom. Better DMR. Mailing Address: Marine Corps Systems Command ATTN: Office of Public Affairs & Communication 2200 Lester Street Quantico, VA 22554 E-Mail: [email protected] Better energy spent there than here. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 11:31:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M27, the newer/other types of ammo, suppressors etc. were not developed together as a system. Some things don't always play well together in the field. Test and tweak as necessary.
Do you feel the same of the M4? Or just the M27? Also the M27 isn't getting any tweaks, it is what it is. Even then isn't one of the reason for the piston according to HK the fact that it works with any ammunition available while DI doesn't? Yet here we are, apparently the M27 only works with M855. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 11:41:03 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like a nice build, why don't you send that to MARCORSYSCOM at : Mailing Address: Marine Corps Systems Command ATTN: Office of Public Affairs & Communication 2200 Lester Street Quantico, VA 22554 E-Mail: [email protected] Better energy spent there than here. |
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