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OFFICIAL Russo-Ukrainian War (Page 1976 of 5592)
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Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:24:01 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

Aside from Russia’s army being ground to hamburger on the battlefield, what should really concern Russia is the postwar energy situation.
Germany in particular has made very clear that if Russia plays games with their energy supply (i.e. Ruble payment) then they no longer see Russia as a trustworthy and reliable energy partner.  Germany is not coming back as a customer, so the destruction of Russia’s energy sector is underway.
If Russia manages to do the right thing fast (kill Putin and withdraw) it can probably be reversed for now.  But once Germany (et al) has long-term contacts in hand Russia is fucked.
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Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By Billy_Ringo:
Maybe I was just uninformed or naive, but it has been an eye-opener as to how much of the Ukraine/Russia war has been fought off the battlefield via economic/financial embargoes and constraints as well as social media/press/public opinion.  

Financially, Russia has screwed themselves as they are almost completely isolated.  Exports, imports, access to international funding, even access to their own overseas wealth have all been decimated.  And it will get worse before it might ever get better as alternate sources to Russian gas/fuel are put in place.

And social media?  The world turned against them so fast it made my head spin.  NATO expanding, the number of countries militarily supporting Ukraine and global distaste of anything Russia all happened so quickly.  

If someone was keeping score at home---it would appear the Ukrainians are tied on the actual battlefield but pitching no-hitters on the public opinion and economic/financial fronts.

Aside from Russia’s army being ground to hamburger on the battlefield, what should really concern Russia is the postwar energy situation.
Germany in particular has made very clear that if Russia plays games with their energy supply (i.e. Ruble payment) then they no longer see Russia as a trustworthy and reliable energy partner.  Germany is not coming back as a customer, so the destruction of Russia’s energy sector is underway.
If Russia manages to do the right thing fast (kill Putin and withdraw) it can probably be reversed for now.  But once Germany (et al) has long-term contacts in hand Russia is fucked.


Russia is already fucked.  They are completely dependent on the super majors - who have all pulled out - to exploit their oil and gas resources.  Without their expertise and equipment and technology, Russian production will decline precipitously.  And Russia's wells can't just be restarted if they are capped, they basically have to be redrilled.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:24:35 PM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By Circuits:

To clarify - it's unlikely the US will spin up Stinger production - we're just giving them old stocks and letting them get used up, since it's been out of serial production for 20 years… even if the US sent every single stinger and javelin to Ukraine, it doesn't exactly render the US defenseless. US forces aren't going to deploy without air and armor assets, and I can't imagine a conflict scenario where brave teams of US anti-armor infantry are sneaking around trying to take out columns of enemy tanks with javelins and fighting off enemy strike aircraft with manpads. If a commando scenario were to require manpads, I'm sure we'll have held back a few hundred, at least, against an eventuality like that.
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What people tend to forget is that these weapons are being expended against exactly the enemy they were intended to be expended against, and we don't even have to do it ourselves.  Send them all, its the bargain of a lifetime!
China will be an air/naval war.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:26:27 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By Billy_Ringo:
Maybe I was just uninformed or naive, but it has been an eye-opener as to how much of the Ukraine/Russia war has been fought off the battlefield via economic/financial embargoes and constraints as well as social media/press/public opinion.  

Financially, Russia has screwed themselves as they are almost completely isolated.  Exports, imports, access to international funding, even access to their own overseas wealth have all been decimated.  And it will get worse before it might ever get better as alternate sources to Russian gas/fuel are put in place.

And social media?  The world turned against them so fast it made my head spin.  NATO expanding, the number of countries militarily supporting Ukraine and global distaste of anything Russia all happened so quickly.  

If someone was keeping score at home---it would appear the Ukrainians are tied on the actual battlefield but pitching no-hitters on the public opinion and economic/financial fronts.
View Quote
Just remember that it is possible to pitch a no-hitter and lose.  It's happened 6 times so far.  The last losing no-hitter just a few days ago.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:30:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Billy_Ringo] [#4]
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Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
Just remember that it is possible to pitch a no-hitter and lose.  It's happened 6 times so far.  The last losing no-hitter just a few days ago.
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Reds having one heck of a season.  Coincidence with having the same nickname as the Russian Army?  Things that make you go hmmmmm.....
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:37:25 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By stone-age:


Russians continue to have a problem with the fact they are losing but NOT with the fact they invaded a foreign country. Russians seem to be enthusiastic  with invading and sacking other countries, so long as they win. Even a neighboring country that actually contains many of their relatives.
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Your excellent point is WHY Russia’s defeat must be total and spectacular. Look:

- Germany has profound regret for Nazism primarily because we forced the death of Hitler, put all the top leaders on public trial, and EXECUTED those most responsible.  

We also marched locals through the concentration camps and forced them to look at the corpses.

Until we do something very similar to the vast majority of the Russian population, they will continue to support Putin, or someone just like Putin.  

This cannot be only about regime change in Russia.  We need major societal change.  

The very worst outcome would be to follow France’s proposed surrender / negotiated-ceasefire with Putin still in power.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:38:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Russian marines under Ukrainian artillery fire, notice the Russian drone operator in the trench.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/usfpzc/russian_marines_take_cover_in_a_trench_as/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:43:43 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
It didn't take the Military Industrial Complex long to smell profit.


US seeks to wean India from Russia weapons with arms-aid package
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Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
It didn't take the Military Industrial Complex long to smell profit.

WASHINGTON: The US is preparing a military aid package for India to deepen security ties and reduce the country's dependence on Russian weapons, people familiar with the matter said. The package under consideration would include foreign military financing of as much as $500 million, according to one person, which would make India one of the largest recipients of such aid behind Israel and Egypt. It's unclear when the deal would be announced, or what weapons would be included.

The effort is part of a much larger initiative by President Joe Biden's administration to court India as a long-term security partner, despite its reluctance to criticize Russia for its invasion of Ukraine, according to a senior US official who asked not to be named.

Washington wants to be seen as a reliable partner for India across the board, the official added, and the administration is working with other nations including France to make sure Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has the equipment it needs. While India is already diversifying its military platforms away from Russia, the US wants to help make that happen faster, the official said.

The major challenge remains how to provide India major platforms like fighter jets, naval ships and battle tanks, the official said, adding that the administration is looking for a breakthrough in one of these areas. The financing package being discussed would do little to make those types of systems -- which can cost billions or tens of billions of dollars -- more affordable, but it would be a significant symbolic sign of support.

India's Foreign Ministry didn't immediately respond to a request for comment. Officials at the State Department and US embassy in New Delhi didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

India is the world's largest buyer of Russian weapons, although it has scaled back that relationship of late. Over the past decade, India has bought more than $4 billion worth of military equipment from the US and more than $25 billion from Russia, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which collects data on arms transfers.

India's dependence on Russia for weapons against neighbors China and Pakistan is a big reason Modi's government has avoided criticizing Russian President Vladimir Putin over the war in Ukraine. As the US, Europe, Australia and Japan piled economic sanctions on Russia, India has held off and instead continued imports of discounted Russian oil.

While the US and its allies were initially frustrated with India, they have sought to woo Modi's government as a key security partner -- including against China in the Indo-Pacific region. Modi is set to join a summit with Biden next week in South Korea. The meeting will include leaders from the Quad, a partnership between the US, India, Japan and Australia that has drawn criticism from China. Modi also received an invitation to join the Group of Seven leaders in Germany next month.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin made the point about China when he spoke at a news conference in April with Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Indian Defense Minster Rajnath Singh and Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar.

"We're doing all this because the United States supports India as a defense industry leader in the Indo-Pacific and a net provider of security in the region," Austin said. "And we all understand the challenges that we face there. The People's Republic of China is seeking to refashion the region and the international system more broadly in ways that serve its interests."

Links between the US and India have steadily deepened over the past two decades, with the two sides reaching agreements that allow for more interoperability between their military platforms.

Backing for India is a rare point of bipartisan unity in Washington, and the Biden administration has signaled that it isn't interested in sanctioning New Delhi over its recent decision to buy the S-400 missile defense system from Russia. Turkey's purchase of the same system deeply damaged US ties with the NATO ally.

Still, it remains to be seen how far India will go in accepting US military assistance. Russia has historically supplied the majority of India's military hardware, including fighter jets and missiles, as well as almost all its tanks and helicopters. Modi's government has told the US the alternatives to moving away completely from Russian weapons imports are too expensive, according to people familiar with the situation, who asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to speak with the media.

US seeks to wean India from Russia weapons with arms-aid package

What?  Its a win-win for the US and India.  The only reason India was sucking up to Putin was weapons contracts.
We get some money, but more importantly a highly useful proxy against China.
India gets weapons that will actually be effective, and backing against China.  With Russia out of the equation, India’s interests become much clearer.
The West in general probably feels that India is a far more reasonable and less threatening global partner than China, in the long run.  India wil have to fight the war themselves, but with our help they’ll come out on top as the dominant regional power free of China’s threat and probably with some extra territory.
Who loses?  Pakistan and China.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:44:30 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By DK-Prof:


What we are asking is that you do not derail THIS thread with the discussion and bitching of a topic that is completely unrelated to the Ukraine War, which is what the vast majority of people reading this thread care about.  If members insist on cluttering up this thread with off-topic discussion, then it stops being the valuable resource that lots of people really enjoy and find useful.

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I, for one, thank you for that and, it's
a reasonable request.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:48:38 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:
I've figured out why RT makes me mad.

For some reason it doesn't bother me when someone tells me a really inventive and half-convincing lie. It's like 'Hey. You took some time and tried to mislead me.'

On the other hand: When someone just treats me to a handful of obtuse horshit that wouldn't deceive a third grader, it offends me. It's like a really backhanded way of insulting me. "You're dumb enough that this will work."

Well fuck you RT. I'm of completely average intelligence. I was tested in the third grade
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Did you watch that video from that Finnish Intel guy? His experience is that the obvious lies are just to distract you from the more subtle lies.
So you can stop being offended
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 12:52:22 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By mercersfinest4:
Anybody seeing an update on Turkey posturing over Sweden & Finland applying for NATO membership?
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My wife saw an article that said they would remove their objection if they could get F35s and S400s again.

My shocked face.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:11:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PurpleOtter] [#11]
Looks like the Swiss are joining the stealth club.

The Swiss government will sign a contract by the end of March to buy 36 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II fighter jets, it said on Wednesday, pressing ahead without waiting for a referendum on the $5.5 billion deal.

Switzerland chose the F-35 last year as its next-generation fighter jet, angering opponents who said they would ensure a referendum was held to overturn what they called an unnecessary "Ferrari" option.

For the latest headlines, follow our Google News channel online or via the app.

The government said it was unclear whether the purchase could take place under the same conditions if the deal had to be
renegotiated once the offer expires next year.

Many countries have stepped up spending on weapons systems, it said, saying Finland had decided to buy 64 F-35As, Germany wanted to purchase up to 35 and Canada would buy 88.

"Against this background, the risk of a delay in delivery has increased significantly. However, the aircraft must be delivered as planned from 2027 to ensure that the population is protected from threats from the air after 2030," it said.
View Quote

Swiss to sign contract to buy 36 F-35 fighters before referendum on deal
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:15:11 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By Capta:

What?  Its a win-win for the US and India.  The only reason India was sucking up to Putin was weapons contracts.
We get some money, but more importantly a highly useful proxy against China.
India gets weapons that will actually be effective, and backing against China.  With Russia out of the equation, India's interests become much clearer.
The West in general probably feels that India is a far more reasonable and less threatening global partner than China, in the long run.  India wil have to fight the war themselves, but with our help they'll come out on top as the dominant regional power free of China's threat and probably with some extra territory.
Who loses?  Pakistan and China.
View Quote
Very much so, plus with India supercharging their economy with cut rate Russian oil & gas, they get to go head to head with China on an economic scale they have been dreaming about for decades.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:25:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Drakich:


Russia is already fucked.  They are completely dependent on the super majors - who have all pulled out - to exploit their oil and gas resources.  Without their expertise and equipment and technology, Russian production will decline precipitously.  And Russia's wells can't just be restarted if they are capped, they basically have to be redrilled.
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True, but hypothetically those contractors could return tomorrow if they wanted to.
On the other hand, once all of Russia’s biggest customers have long-term energy contracts in hand elsewhere, there’s no going back.  We’re talking 10 years minimum.
The side benefit for us is that the Germans have to at least pretend to be nice to us again.  Their new contracts will be with the US, Canada, and various gulf states.  And who ensures supply from the often-troubled gulf?  We do!
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:32:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
Very much so, plus with India supercharging their economy with cut rate Russian oil & gas, they get to go head to head with China on an economic scale they have been dreaming about for decades.
View Quote

True.  Russia will need all the revenue it can get and will not be in the position to say “buy our weapons or we won’t sell you energy.”  So theres no reason India can’t benefit both ways.  Strategically India is in a good position going forward, though they should be preparing for war with China at some level.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:33:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
Looks like the Swedes are joining the stealth club.


Swiss to sign contract to buy 36 F-35 fighters before referendum on deal
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
Looks like the Swedes are joining the stealth club.

The Swiss government will sign a contract by the end of March to buy 36 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II fighter jets, it said on Wednesday, pressing ahead without waiting for a referendum on the $5.5 billion deal.

Switzerland chose the F-35 last year as its next-generation fighter jet, angering opponents who said they would ensure a referendum was held to overturn what they called an unnecessary "Ferrari" option.

For the latest headlines, follow our Google News channel online or via the app.

The government said it was unclear whether the purchase could take place under the same conditions if the deal had to be
renegotiated once the offer expires next year.

Many countries have stepped up spending on weapons systems, it said, saying Finland had decided to buy 64 F-35As, Germany wanted to purchase up to 35 and Canada would buy 88.

"Against this background, the risk of a delay in delivery has increased significantly. However, the aircraft must be delivered as planned from 2027 to ensure that the population is protected from threats from the air after 2030," it said.

Swiss to sign contract to buy 36 F-35 fighters before referendum on deal
The way things are going, about the only country, beside the Ukraine, that will NOT get the F-35 will be Northern Korea.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan] [#16]
[Deleted]
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:37:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan] [#17]
[Deleted]
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:42:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Capta:

What?  Its a win-win for the US and India.  The only reason India was sucking up to Putin was weapons contracts.
We get some money, but more importantly a highly useful proxy against China.
India gets weapons that will actually be effective, and backing against China.  With Russia out of the equation, India’s interests become much clearer.
The West in general probably feels that India is a far more reasonable and less threatening global partner than China, in the long run.  India wil have to fight the war themselves, but with our help they’ll come out on top as the dominant regional power free of China’s threat and probably with some extra territory.
Who loses?  Pakistan and China.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
It didn't take the Military Industrial Complex long to smell profit.

WASHINGTON: The US is preparing a military aid package for India to deepen security ties and reduce the country's dependence on Russian weapons, people familiar with the matter said. The package under consideration would include foreign military financing of as much as $500 million, according to one person, which would make India one of the largest recipients of such aid behind Israel and Egypt. It's unclear when the deal would be announced, or what weapons would be included.

The effort is part of a much larger initiative by President Joe Biden's administration to court India as a long-term security partner, despite its reluctance to criticize Russia for its invasion of Ukraine, according to a senior US official who asked not to be named.

Washington wants to be seen as a reliable partner for India across the board, the official added, and the administration is working with other nations including France to make sure Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has the equipment it needs. While India is already diversifying its military platforms away from Russia, the US wants to help make that happen faster, the official said.

The major challenge remains how to provide India major platforms like fighter jets, naval ships and battle tanks, the official said, adding that the administration is looking for a breakthrough in one of these areas. The financing package being discussed would do little to make those types of systems -- which can cost billions or tens of billions of dollars -- more affordable, but it would be a significant symbolic sign of support.

India's Foreign Ministry didn't immediately respond to a request for comment. Officials at the State Department and US embassy in New Delhi didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

India is the world's largest buyer of Russian weapons, although it has scaled back that relationship of late. Over the past decade, India has bought more than $4 billion worth of military equipment from the US and more than $25 billion from Russia, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, which collects data on arms transfers.

India's dependence on Russia for weapons against neighbors China and Pakistan is a big reason Modi's government has avoided criticizing Russian President Vladimir Putin over the war in Ukraine. As the US, Europe, Australia and Japan piled economic sanctions on Russia, India has held off and instead continued imports of discounted Russian oil.

While the US and its allies were initially frustrated with India, they have sought to woo Modi's government as a key security partner -- including against China in the Indo-Pacific region. Modi is set to join a summit with Biden next week in South Korea. The meeting will include leaders from the Quad, a partnership between the US, India, Japan and Australia that has drawn criticism from China. Modi also received an invitation to join the Group of Seven leaders in Germany next month.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin made the point about China when he spoke at a news conference in April with Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Indian Defense Minster Rajnath Singh and Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar.

"We're doing all this because the United States supports India as a defense industry leader in the Indo-Pacific and a net provider of security in the region," Austin said. "And we all understand the challenges that we face there. The People's Republic of China is seeking to refashion the region and the international system more broadly in ways that serve its interests."

Links between the US and India have steadily deepened over the past two decades, with the two sides reaching agreements that allow for more interoperability between their military platforms.

Backing for India is a rare point of bipartisan unity in Washington, and the Biden administration has signaled that it isn't interested in sanctioning New Delhi over its recent decision to buy the S-400 missile defense system from Russia. Turkey's purchase of the same system deeply damaged US ties with the NATO ally.

Still, it remains to be seen how far India will go in accepting US military assistance. Russia has historically supplied the majority of India's military hardware, including fighter jets and missiles, as well as almost all its tanks and helicopters. Modi's government has told the US the alternatives to moving away completely from Russian weapons imports are too expensive, according to people familiar with the situation, who asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to speak with the media.

US seeks to wean India from Russia weapons with arms-aid package

What?  Its a win-win for the US and India.  The only reason India was sucking up to Putin was weapons contracts.
We get some money, but more importantly a highly useful proxy against China.
India gets weapons that will actually be effective, and backing against China.  With Russia out of the equation, India’s interests become much clearer.
The West in general probably feels that India is a far more reasonable and less threatening global partner than China, in the long run.  India wil have to fight the war themselves, but with our help they’ll come out on top as the dominant regional power free of China’s threat and probably with some extra territory.
Who loses?  Pakistan and China.



There is that whole thing about us supporting their arch enemy Pakistan.  Then the colonialism, I know it wasn't us but the Indians blame us also.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:49:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CenterMass762:
Please don't get this thread locked, guys. It's literally the only thing that makes this site worth visiting anymore.
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Agreed.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:49:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Time's up!

The waiver, issued shortly after the U.S. levied sanctions, has given Russia room to repay sovereign debt to foreign investors

Russian default risk surged as investors began to digest the possibility that the Biden administration will fully block bond payments from the country to U.S. investors from next week.

The move, if confirmed, may be the final straw in Russia's debt saga after almost three months of war in Ukraine, pushing the country into its first foreign default in a century.

Insurance on Russian sovereign debt  used to protect investors against non-payment  jumped on Wednesday, signalling a 90% chance of a default within one year. That probability rose from 77% on Tuesday, according to ICE Data Services.

The heightened risk is linked to a decision by the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control, which is expected to let a temporary exemption lapse once it expires on May 25, according to people familiar with the matter. The waiver, issued shortly after the US levied sanctions on Russia, has given Moscow room to pay coupons, and ending it would create a major hurdle for future payments.

Trading on credit-default swaps skyrocketed earlier this year as investors wagered on Russia defaulting due to payments being made in rubles rather than the currencies specified in bond documents, or because of money getting held up in the banking system.

But Russia has managed to meet all its debt obligations so far, weaving through the tangle of sanctions that closed off some avenues. That includes an 11th-hour escape earlier this month, when blocked payments were eventually allowed through after Moscow tapped its domestic dollar reserves. Russian corporations haven't been so fortunate, with billions of dollars of debt now in technical default.

Finance Minister Anton Siluanov reiterated on Wednesday that Russia has no intention of defaulting on the almost $20 billion of sovereign debt it owes to foreign investors, and will pay in rubles if transfers are blocked, according to the Tass news service.

In April, Siluanov pledged to sue if Russia is forced to break its obligations.

Moscow's next debt transfers are due May 27, on foreign bonds maturing in 2026 and 2036.

The 2026 note was down by 33% on Wednesday at 16 cents on the dollar, according to CBBT data compiled by Bloomberg. It's at its lowest level since mid-March, when Russia succeeded in making the first external debt payment since the invasion of Ukraine thanks to the OFAC carveout. The bond maturing in 2036 was little changed.
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Final straw in Russia's debt saga looms on May 25 when U.S. bond waiver lapses
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:50:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta] [#21]
Worth a read.  In an article dated Feb 3, Russian defense analyst predicted course of war before the invasion, concludes that “war against Ukraine is fundamentally against Russia’s national interests.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/usdhsg/russian_defense_analyst_mikhail_khodaryonok/

Text of article follows:

On enthusiastic hawks and hasty cuckoos
Some members of the Russian political class today argue that Russia is capable of inflicting a crushing defeat on Ukraine in a few hours (shorter periods are also mentioned) if a military conflict breaks out. Let's see how such statements correspond to reality.
In the expert community of Russia, the opinion has recently taken root quite strongly that it will not even be necessary to send troops to the territory of Ukraine, since the Armed Forces of that country are in a deplorable state.
Some political analysts emphasize that a powerful Russian fire strike will destroy almost all surveillance and communication systems, artillery and tank formations. Moreover, a number of experts conclude that even one crushing blow from Russia will be enough to end such a war.
On top of that, some analysts highlight the fact that no one in Ukraine will defend the “Kyiv regime.”
NO EASY WALK
Let's begin with the last one. To assert that no one in Ukraine will defend the regime illustrates, in practice, complete ignorance of the military-political situation and the mood of the broad masses of the people in the neighboring state. Moreover, the degree of hatred (which, as everyone knows, is the most effective fuel for armed struggle) in the neighboring republic in relation to Moscow is frankly underestimated. No one will meet the Russian army with bread, salt and flowers in Ukraine.
It appears that the events in the south-east of Ukraine in 2014 did not teach anyone anything. Then, after all, they also expected that the entire left-bank Ukraine, in a single impulse and in a matter of seconds, would emerge as Novorossiya. We had already drawn maps, estimated the personnel of future administrations of cities and regions, and even developed state flags.
But even the Russian-speaking population of this part of Ukraine (including that of cities such as Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Dnepropetrovsk, Mariupol) did not support such plans in their vast majority. The project “Novorossiya” was somehow imperceptibly blown away and quietly died.
To put it simply, the liberation campaign in 2022, following the model and likeness of 1939, will not succeed in any way. In this case, the words of Soviet writer Arkady Gaidar are more true than ever: “It is clear that we will now have not an easy battle, but a hard one.”
“A LITTLE BLOOD, A POWERFUL BLOW”
Now with regard to the “powerful fire strike by Russia,” which allegedly will destroy “almost all surveillance and communication systems, artillery and tank formations of the AFU.”
That expression alone shows that only political careerists could say such a thing. For reference: in the course of hypothetical military operations on the scale of a theater of operations, strikes are carried out on priority targets in addition to massive fire strikes. Note that in the course of operational-strategic planning, the epithets “powerful” (as well as “medium,” “weak,” etc.) are not used.
Military science emphasizes that strikes can be strategic (this mostly applies to strategic nuclear forces), operational and tactical. According to the number of forces involved and objects hit, strikes can be massive, group and single. It is still better not to introduce or use other concepts, even in works of a political science nature.
Attacks on priority targets and massive fire strikes may be carried out within the front (fronts on the western borders of Russia have not yet been formed) or the main command center of the armed forces in the theater of operations (so far, one has not been created in the South-Western strategic direction either). Anything less than that is no longer a massive strike.
And what is, for example, a massive fire strike (MFS) of the front? To begin with, it should be noted that the maximum number of combat-ready forces and means of aviation, missile troops and artillery, electronic warfare equipment at the disposal of the commander of the front forces (operational-strategic formation) is involved in the МFS. The МFS consists of one massive air sortie, two or three launches of OTP and TR missile systems, and several artillery fire raids. Well, only if the degree of fire damage to the enemy is 60-70%.
What is the most important thing in this matter in relation to the conflict with Ukraine? Of course, the MFS will inflict heavy losses on a potential enemy. But to expect to crush the armed forces of an entire country with just one such blow only shows unbridled optimism in the course of planning and conducting combat operations. In the course of hypothetical strategic actions on the theater of operations, such MFSs will need to be applied not once or twice, but much more times.
It must be added by all means that the reserves of promising and high-precision weapons in the RF Armed Forces are not unlimited. Hypersonic missiles of the Zircon type are not yet in service. And the number of Kalibr (sea-launched cruise missiles), Kinzhals, Kh-101 (air-launched cruise missiles) and Iskander missiles is measured in the hundreds at best (tens in the case of Kinzhals). This arsenal is absolutely not enough to wipe out a country the size of France and with a population of more than 40 million from the face of the Earth. Namely, Ukraine is characterized by such parameters.
ON AIR SUPERIORITY
Sometimes it is asserted in the Russian expert community (by fans of the Douai Doctrine) that since the hypothetical military operations in Ukraine will take place under the conditions of complete dominance of Russian aircraft in the air, the war will not only be extremely short but end in the shortest possible time.
At the same time, it is somehow forgotten that the armed formations of the Afghan opposition during the conflict of 1979-1989 did not have a single aircraft and not a single combat helicopter. And the war in that country dragged on for as much as 10 years. The Chechen fighters did not have a single aircraft either. And the fight against them lasted for several years and cost the federal forces a lot of blood and casualties.
And the AFU still have some kind of combat aircraft as well as means of air defense.
By the way, the Ukrainian crews of the anti-aircraft missile forces (by no means Georgian ones) significantly pinched the Russian Air Force during the 2008 conflict. After the first day of hostilities, the leadership of the Russian Air Force was in shock from the losses incurred. And we shouldn't forget about it.
MOURNED IN ADVANCE
Now when it comes to the thesis "The Armed Forces of Ukraine are in a deplorable state,” of course, the AFU have problems with aviation and modern air defense systems. But the following must also be acknowledged. If until 2014 the AFU were a scrap of the Soviet army, over the past seven years a qualitatively different army has been created in Ukraine, on a completely different ideological basis and largely on NATO standards. And very modern weapons and equipment are being supplied and continue to be supplied to Ukraine from many countries of the North Atlantic Alliance.
As for the weakest point of the AFU - the Air Force, it cannot be ruled out that the collective West may, in a fairly short time, supply Kyiv with fighters, as they say, “from the current armed forces” - in other words, second-hand. However, these second-hand fighters, in terms of its tactical and technical characteristics, will be quite comparable with the majority of aircraft in the Russian fleet.
Of course, today the AFU are significantly inferior to the RF Armed Forces in terms of their combat and operational capabilities. No one doubts this, neither in the East nor in the West.
But that army cannot be taken lightly either. In this regard, one must always remember the testament of Alexander Suvorov: “Never underestimate your enemy, do not consider him stupider and weaker than you.”
Now with regard to the assertion that Western countries will not send a single soldier to die for Ukraine.
It should be noted that this is indeed likely to be the case. However, in the event of a Russian invasion, that does not at all rule out massive assistance to the AFU from the collective West with a wide variety of weapons and military equipment and bulk deliveries of all kinds of materiel. In this regard, the West has already exhibited a consolidated position, unprecedented until now, which, it seems, was not predicted in Moscow.
There is no doubt that the USA and the countries of the North Atlantic Alliance will begin a kind of reincarnation of Lend-Lease, modeled after the Second World War, there is no doubt. An influx of volunteers from the West, which can be very numerous, cannot be ruled out.
PARTISANS AND UNDERGROUND
And finally, when it comes to the duration of a hypothetical campaign, in the Russian expert community, several hours are called, sometimes even several tens of minutes. At the same time, it is somehow forgotten that we have already gone through all this. The phrase “take the city with one airborne regiment in two hours” has already become a classic of the genre.
It is also worth recalling that the mighty Stalinist NKVD and the multi-million Soviet army fought the nationalist underground in Western Ukraine for more than 10 years. And now there is a possibility that the whole of Ukraine can easily go into the partisans. In addition, these formations can easily begin to operate on the territory of Russia itself.
The armed struggle in large Ukrainian cities is generally difficult to predict. It is common knowledge that big cities are the best battlefield for the weak and less technically advanced side of the armed conflict.
Serious-minded experts emphasize that in a metropolis it is possible not only to concentrate a grouping of thousands and even tens of thousands of fighters, but also to hide them from the superior firepower of the enemy. And also to supply them with material resources for a long time and make up for losses in people and equipment. Neither mountains, nor forests, nor jungles today provide such an advantage.
Experts are convinced that the urban environment helps the defenders, slows down the movement of the attackers, allows you to place a record number of fighters per unit area, and compensates for the lag in forces and technologies. And in Ukraine there are more than enough large cities, including those with more than a million inhabitants. So the Russian army in the course of a hypothetical war with Ukraine may meet with far more than just Stalingrad and Grozny.
CONCLUSIONS
To sum up, there will be no Ukrainian blitzkrieg. The statements of some experts such as “The Russian army will defeat most of the units of the AFU in 30-40 minutes,” “Russia is able to defeat Ukraine in 10 minutes in the event of a full-scale war,” “Russia will defeat Ukraine in eight minutes” have no serious grounds.
And finally, the most important thing. An armed conflict with Ukraine is currently fundamentally not in Russia's national interests. Therefore, it is best for some overexcited Russian experts to forget about their hatred-fueled fantasies, and in order to avoid further reputational damage, to never mention them again.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 1:55:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
Looks like the Swedes are joining the stealth club.


Swiss to sign contract to buy 36 F-35 fighters before referendum on deal
View Quote

You do realize Swedes and Swiss are different peoples from different countries, even though both have historically been neutral?
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:01:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
Looks like the Swedes are joining the stealth club.


Swiss to sign contract to buy 36 F-35 fighters before referendum on deal
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Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
Looks like the Swedes are joining the stealth club.

The Swiss government will sign a contract by the end of March to buy 36 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II fighter jets, it said on Wednesday, pressing ahead without waiting for a referendum on the $5.5 billion deal.

Switzerland chose the F-35 last year as its next-generation fighter jet, angering opponents who said they would ensure a referendum was held to overturn what they called an unnecessary "Ferrari" option.

For the latest headlines, follow our Google News channel online or via the app.

The government said it was unclear whether the purchase could take place under the same conditions if the deal had to be
renegotiated once the offer expires next year.

Many countries have stepped up spending on weapons systems, it said, saying Finland had decided to buy 64 F-35As, Germany wanted to purchase up to 35 and Canada would buy 88.

"Against this background, the risk of a delay in delivery has increased significantly. However, the aircraft must be delivered as planned from 2027 to ensure that the population is protected from threats from the air after 2030," it said.

Swiss to sign contract to buy 36 F-35 fighters before referendum on deal

Article says Switzerland not Sweden.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:05:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Circuits:

You do realize Swedes and Swiss are different peoples from different countries, even though both have historically been neutral?
View Quote
I ALWAYS get this wrong....
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:06:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Balu:

Article says Switzerland not Sweden.
View Quote
Edited.

Whip me, beat me, make me write bad checks!
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:14:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:17:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Any updates on the blown up russian armored train? As the russians are super dependent on their rail system for moving troops and weapons, I am super stoked that one of them may have gotten hit. Maybe ukraine already destroyed their small number of trucks and had no choice but to move on to their trains.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:25:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stone-age:
Any updates on the blown up russian armored train? As the russians are super dependent on their rail system for moving troops and weapons, I am super stoked that one of them may have gotten hit. Maybe ukraine already destroyed their small number of trucks and had no choice but to move on to their trains.
View Quote

So far it just looks like regurgitation of the initial report. I'm hoping someone will eventually post an article with photos.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:26:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Circuits:

You do realize Swedes and Swiss are different peoples from different countries, even though both have historically been neutral?
View Quote
Correction.  Swedes are not people.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:27:16 PM EDT
[#30]


If you're going to try and jam up drones, "halfway working" isn't a good place to be.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:32:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:


If you're going to try and jam up drones, "halfway working" isn't a good place to be.
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LOL, that's at least as good as the US using a JDAM to blow up a Russian supplied GPS signal jammer in GW1.

Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:36:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Circuits] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By happycynic:
Correction.  Swedes are not people.
View Quote

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:39:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Washington  The U.S. Embassy in Kyiv reopened Wednesday, three months after closing its doors and suspending operations in Ukraine's capital just before Russia invaded the country.

The State Department marked the resumption of embassy operations in Ukraine's capital with the raising of the American flag outside the facility at 8 p.m. local time, which Secretary of State Antony Blinken called a "momentous step."

"The Ukrainian people, with our security assistance, have defended their homeland in the face of Russia's unconscionable invasion, and, as a result, the Stars and Stripes are flying over the Embassy once again," Blinken said in a statement. "We stand proudly with, and continue to support, the government and people of Ukraine as they defend their country from the Kremlin's brutal war of aggression."

The Biden administration has implemented additional safety measures for State Department staff working at the embassy in Kyiv and enhanced "security measures and protocols," Blinken said.

We are committed to confronting the challenges ahead. The war rages on. Russia's forces inflict death and destruction on Ukrainian soil every day. Millions of Ukrainians are displaced from their homes and mourn the loss of their loved ones," he continued. "With strength of purpose, we reaffirm our commitment to the people and government of Ukraine, and we look forward to carrying out our mission from the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv."
View Quote

U.S. Embassy in Kyiv resumes operations 3 months after closing because of war
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:42:33 PM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By happycynic:
Correction.  Swedes are not people.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By happycynic:
Originally Posted By Circuits:

You do realize Swedes and Swiss are different peoples from different countries, even though both have historically been neutral?
Correction.  Swedes are not people.


You're just pissed that you had to hire someone to put the Ikea together... Riiiiigggght?
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:45:49 PM EDT
[#35]


May 18 (Reuters) - Ukraine's state-owned grid operator Ukrenergo on Wednesday dismissed as "physically impossible" the suggestion by a Russian official that a Ukrainian nuclear power plant would supply Russia with electricity.

Russian troops have seized the Zaporizhzhia plant, the biggest in Europe by capacity. RIA new agency earlier quoted Russian Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin as saying the facility would provide energy to Russia and to Ukraine if the latter paid for it.

Ukrenergo said the plant was in the Ukrainian grid and remained under the control of Ukrainian specialists.

"Ukraine's power system currently has no physical connections with Russia's power system. Therefore, the supply of electricity from Ukrainian power plants to Russia is currently physically impossible," it said in a statement.

Ukrenergo said Moscow was clearly trying to destabilise talks with the European Union about the possibility of boosting electricity exports.

The EU and Ukraine linked Europe's electricity system to the Ukrainian grid on March 16 in response to Russia's invasion. The move means Ukraine can receive emergency power from Europe if military attacks caused power outages.

Last month Ukraine said it could export more power to Europe without requiring grid upgrades.

Khusnullin also said Russia would finance the reconstruction of territories in Ukraine that it has taken control of and will repair roads that link those areas with Russia. Russia had "freed" the territories, he added.
View Quote

Ukraine dismisses talk of nuclear plant supplying electricity to Russia
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:46:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dominion21:


Your excellent point is WHY Russia’s defeat must be total and spectacular. Look:

- Germany has profound regret for Nazism primarily because we forced the death of Hitler, put all the top leaders on public trial, and EXECUTED those most responsible.  

We also marched locals through the concentration camps and forced them to look at the corpses.

Until we do something very similar to the vast majority of the Russian population, they will continue to support Putin, or someone just like Putin.  

This cannot be only about regime change in Russia.  We need major societal change.  

The very worst outcome would be to follow France’s proposed surrender / negotiated-ceasefire with Putin still in power.
View Quote

I agree. But Post-war German population had a very different culture than modern day Russia. Just my opinion.

Anyway, this will be impossible to force onto the Russians because of nukes. Russia has to do this to THEMSELVES. Maybe 1% chance if everything goes really lucky.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:53:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Capta:

True, but hypothetically those contractors could return tomorrow if they wanted to.
On the other hand, once all of Russia's biggest customers have long-term energy contracts in hand elsewhere, there's no going back.  We're talking 10 years minimum.
The side benefit for us is that the Germans have to at least pretend to be nice to us again.  Their new contracts will be with the US, Canada, and various gulf states.  And who ensures supply from the often-troubled gulf?  We do!
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Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By Drakich:


Russia is already fucked.  They are completely dependent on the super majors - who have all pulled out - to exploit their oil and gas resources.  Without their expertise and equipment and technology, Russian production will decline precipitously.  And Russia's wells can't just be restarted if they are capped, they basically have to be redrilled.

True, but hypothetically those contractors could return tomorrow if they wanted to.
On the other hand, once all of Russia's biggest customers have long-term energy contracts in hand elsewhere, there's no going back.  We're talking 10 years minimum.
The side benefit for us is that the Germans have to at least pretend to be nice to us again.  Their new contracts will be with the US, Canada, and various gulf states.  And who ensures supply from the often-troubled gulf?  We do!

I still don't know Germany's long term plans for LNG.  Yes, they can build terminals but now they are reliant on shipping vs. pipelines.  They'll be as vulnerable as the Chinese in terms of energy.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 2:55:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

I still don't know Germany's long term plans for LNG.  Yes, they can build terminals but now they are reliant on shipping vs. pipelines.  They'll be as vulnerable as the Chinese in terms of energy.
View Quote

Disagree. There’s no comparison between the vulnerability of the Chinese shipping lanes to the relative security of German shipping lanes.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:00:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:02:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Zaporizhia Oblast, Ukrainian drone dropping modified munitions.  Possibly the R-18 drone from symbology.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/usjtyr/a_russian_ifv_destroyed_by_dronedropped_munition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:04:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:04:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Circuits:

You do realize Swedes and Swiss are different peoples from different countries, even though both have historically been neutral?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By PurpleOtter:
Looks like the Swedes are joining the stealth club.


Swiss to sign contract to buy 36 F-35 fighters before referendum on deal

You do realize Swedes and Swiss are different peoples from different countries, even though both have historically been neutral?


Sorry bro, we're Swiss now.

This is me and the lads last weekend.

Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:05:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By happycynic:
Correction.  Swedes are not people.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By happycynic:
Originally Posted By Circuits:

You do realize Swedes and Swiss are different peoples from different countries, even though both have historically been neutral?
Correction.  Swedes are not people.





You should be nicer to your fellow NATO-allies.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:08:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:

Disagree. There's no comparison between the vulnerability of the Chinese shipping lanes to the relative security of German shipping lanes.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:
Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

I still don't know Germany's long term plans for LNG.  Yes, they can build terminals but now they are reliant on shipping vs. pipelines.  They'll be as vulnerable as the Chinese in terms of energy.

Disagree. There's no comparison between the vulnerability of the Chinese shipping lanes to the relative security of German shipping lanes.

It was a bit hyperbolic.  
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:17:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Ukrainians using an automatic grenade launcher and a drone for correction.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/usjzts/ukrainians_targeting_russian_positions_with_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
View Quote


Nice.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:23:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OldCynic:


Both countries allow Kurds to participate in the their government. Turkey considers these Kurdish organizations to be terrorists.

At least, that's Erdogan's claim.
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Originally Posted By OldCynic:
Originally Posted By sentionaut:

What is their official reason? I know they are slimy as fuck, but what is the spin?


Both countries allow Kurds to participate in the their government. Turkey considers these Kurdish organizations to be terrorists.

At least, that's Erdogan's claim.


Nope. There are Kurds in the Turkish Government.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:28:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Capta:

Turkey would probably be satisfied with the F35s and some vague promises on the Kurds.  If we’re smart we should press for Turkey to donate their S400 to Ukraine as part of the deal.
Turkey is playing hardball for their interests, which is fine.  Money talks and bullshit walks.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Capta:
Originally Posted By sq40:


Turkey wants the F 35s, but they also want to fuck the Kurds.  So Scandinavia will need to find a way to screw the Kurds to get in the club.  Turkey is really in a spot to get what it wants.

Turkey would probably be satisfied with the F35s and some vague promises on the Kurds.  If we’re smart we should press for Turkey to donate their S400 to Ukraine as part of the deal.
Turkey is playing hardball for their interests, which is fine.  Money talks and bullshit walks.


F-35s and S-400s will never be allowed to exist in the same ecosystem. Zero chance of it. Yes, if we agreed to sell Patriot to Turkey and they got rid of their S-400s, then yes, Turkey might get back in the F-35 program.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:31:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Ukrainians using an automatic grenade launcher and a drone for correction.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/usjzts/ukrainians_targeting_russian_positions_with_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
View Quote
Can shoot up to 2,200 meters
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:33:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Can shoot up to 2,200 meters
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Ukrainians using an automatic grenade launcher and a drone for correction.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/usjzts/ukrainians_targeting_russian_positions_with_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Can shoot up to 2,200 meters



They said in the chat about the dialog in the video that the drone guy reported one injured Russian soldier that made it back to their trench after they corrected fire.
Link Posted: 5/18/2022 3:34:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swede1986:


Sorry bro, we're Swiss now.

This is me and the lads last weekend.

https://cdn.theculturetrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/alphorns_grindelwald-650x366.jpg
View Quote

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OFFICIAL Russo-Ukrainian War (Page 1976 of 5592)
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