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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:04:19 AM EDT
[#1]
2099 Ghost page
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:04:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Et2ss: But did it actually hit anything? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Et2ss: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Thermal image of Russian S-8 unguided rocket lofting. You can see the round all the way to the impact point. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vc2m1e/video_of_russian_airforce_firing_toward_ukrainian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 But did it actually hit anything? Great question, no one actually knows lol. I would imagine if your that desperate to hit a target and can't do it because you have no air superiority, or guided weapons, that you'd have dozens of such aircraft fly together and loft hundreds of these to create the effect of an MLRS strike. Two aircraft firing these doesn't seem like it would do much, and the dispersion seems large. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:04:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUIxCUGr8LAThis is a pretty good episode for you "Speak The Truth" regulars. He says he's had the conversation about a thousand times whether he should go join the Ukraine foreign legion. I figured. I expect it is a hard decision feeling the need to go do what is right, versus also figuring the consequences of your choice if things go bad. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:06:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Reporter reveals almost none of $40B Ukraine money actually made it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyj22U036jQUkraine isn’t going to get cash. They get weapons. The cash goes to USG contractors and employees, NGOs, and NATO governments. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:11:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I though I caught references the guy who sometimes co-host with him was involved somehow in Ukraine...not sure if in direct fighting or just in training capacity. I know who you are talking about. And, yeah, that guy seems to want to keep it kind of quiet that he is spending time in Ukraine. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:11:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: That's a cool looking tank. https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/media/editor_media/rm_defence/produktbilder/panther_kf51/Panther_1_breit.jpg The angle under that turret seems like a "bullet trap". It may need those cool looking ball and chain curtain things on Israeli tanks. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:18:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NY12ga]
[#7]
nvm
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:21:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Ukraine isn’t going to get cash. They get weapons. The cash goes to USG contractors and employees, NGOs, and NATO governments. Dont forget that 10% for the big guy. How much is going to all the NGO's teaching lgbtq in schools and funding UA tranny bottom surgeries... If 10% actually makes it into UA hands I will be shocked. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:22:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Reporter reveals almost none of $40B Ukraine money actually made it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyj22U036jQGlad they broke down the expenditures a bit. Kinda takes away from the "Giving Ukraine $40B when we should be spending it on the US" claim since apparently a lot of that money is being used for.... the US to buy new weapons and keeps troops overseas. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:26:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WildBill375]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustaGunNut: Glad they broke down the expenditures a bit. Kinda takes away from the "Giving Ukraine $40B when we should be spending it on the US" claim since apparently a lot of that money is being used for.... the US to buy new weapons and keeps troops overseas. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustaGunNut: Originally Posted By realwar: Reporter reveals almost none of $40B Ukraine money actually made it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyj22U036jQGlad they broke down the expenditures a bit. Kinda takes away from the "Giving Ukraine $40B when we should be spending it on the US" claim since apparently a lot of that money is being used for.... the US to buy new weapons and keeps troops overseas. That's one thing that a lot of American fail to do, read the bills. The "40 billion" bill basically pumped American defense spending. It wasn't a check to Ukraine for 40 billion. Edit-added link to lawhttps://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7691?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Ukraine%22%2C%22Ukraine%22%5D%7D&s=2&r=18 Text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7691/text |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:27:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Canine gunner of this T-84 is credited with 53 Russian vehicles. Here we see him inspecting his tank between operations and giving a press conference. Click To View Spoiler https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-06-13_16-14-55_jpg-2417800.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-06-13_16-15-15_jpg-2417802.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-06-13_16-15-03_jpg-2417803.JPG Allegedly captured Russian tanks in UA service. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-06-13_16-15-00_jpg-2417807.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-06-13_16-14-48_jpg-2417808.JPG Did some UA tank gunner (human) actually get credited with 53 kills? I guess it's possible and hopefully will rival some of the 100+ German Aces from WWII. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:28:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Dont forget that 10% for the big guy. How much is going to all the NGO's teaching lgbtq in schools and funding UA tranny bottom surgeries... If 10% actually makes it into UA hands I will be shocked. This kind of spending is harder to have organized corruption in than others spending. No time to organize. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:38:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Great question, no one actually knows lol. I would imagine if your that desperate to hit a target and can't do it because you have no air superiority, or guided weapons, that you'd have dozens of such aircraft fly together and loft hundreds of these to create the effect of an MLRS strike. Two aircraft firing these doesn't seem like it would do much, and the dispersion seems large. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Et2ss: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Thermal image of Russian S-8 unguided rocket lofting. You can see the round all the way to the impact point. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vc2m1e/video_of_russian_airforce_firing_toward_ukrainian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 But did it actually hit anything? Great question, no one actually knows lol. I would imagine if your that desperate to hit a target and can't do it because you have no air superiority, or guided weapons, that you'd have dozens of such aircraft fly together and loft hundreds of these to create the effect of an MLRS strike. Two aircraft firing these doesn't seem like it would do much, and the dispersion seems large. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 10:50:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I just worked a 12-hour shift, and I still have the energy to come here for news of Ukraine and to refute cowards enabling or advocating for the genocide of another nation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By OD-Man: Originally Posted By Billy_Ringo: Have noticed that the Russian trolls usually post in pairs or multiples to make it look like there is "agreement" on whatever daily BS they spew. They'll usually post later in the evening so that their messaging stays up longer without much countering opinion. Have seen it here and in other forums. A little like artillery, attack in force, hit a designated target when counter-battery may be at a minimum and then disperse and run for the hills before any appreciable return fire is received. In a sea of morons spouting off on how "they'll shoot invaders in the face" and that they've changed their location to support Ukraine with a Ukie flag in their avatar, you're worried about a couple of posters dishing out some reality. Maybe the "Russian trolls" have real jobs during the day.... I just worked a 12-hour shift, and I still have the energy to come here for news of Ukraine and to refute cowards enabling or advocating for the genocide of another nation. It's the difference between a moral person and sociopaths that are fine with genocide so long as they are ok can can buy shit. The Netherlands had collabarators in WWII and people like grandpa Iggy1337 in the resistance. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 11:00:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: That's one thing that a lot of American fail to do, read the bills. The "40 billion" bill basically pumped American defense spending. It wasn't a check to Ukraine for 40 billion. Edit-added link to lawhttps://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7691?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Ukraine%22%2C%22Ukraine%22%5D%7D&s=2&r=18 Text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7691/text Surprise, another holier than thou post. This thread is MAYBE 10% conflict info. The remaining 90% is perpetual anti-American shit talking. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 11:04:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WildBill375]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timeflies: Surprise, another holier than thou post. This thread is MAYBE 10% conflict info. The remaining 90% is perpetual anti-American shit talking. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Timeflies: Originally Posted By WildBill375: That's one thing that a lot of American fail to do, read the bills. The "40 billion" bill basically pumped American defense spending. It wasn't a check to Ukraine for 40 billion. Edit-added link to lawhttps://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7691?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Ukraine%22%2C%22Ukraine%22%5D%7D&s=2&r=18 Text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7691/text Surprise, another holier than thou post. This thread is MAYBE 10% conflict info. The remaining 90% is perpetual anti-American shit talking.  How many threads where there floating around bitching about 40Billion going to Ukraine? Not holier than thou, just the truth that people are lazy and pass meaningless bullshit without research and the facts. Google ar15.com Ukraine 40 billion. You're welcome. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 11:10:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Et2ss: But did it actually hit anything? Ukraine?   
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Posted: 6/14/2022 11:35:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#18]
Multiple videos and claims that a Russian ammo depot was hit in Nova Kakhovka https://t.me/truexanewsua https://t.me/hueviyherson
Additional 64 bodies from Azovstal handed over
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Posted: 6/14/2022 11:39:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Those drone videos of rocket attacks are kind of frustrating, two dozen explosions everywhere except for the road or treeline being targeted. Maybe one will hit close enough to cause casualties. Makes you believe in spending whatever is necessary for guided weapons. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Et2ss: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Thermal image of Russian S-8 unguided rocket lofting. You can see the round all the way to the impact point. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vc2m1e/video_of_russian_airforce_firing_toward_ukrainian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 But did it actually hit anything? Great question, no one actually knows lol. I would imagine if your that desperate to hit a target and can't do it because you have no air superiority, or guided weapons, that you'd have dozens of such aircraft fly together and loft hundreds of these to create the effect of an MLRS strike. Two aircraft firing these doesn't seem like it would do much, and the dispersion seems large. Exactly, I would rather have one weapon that can hit exactly where I want than 500 that only have a small chance of hitting where I want. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 11:41:38 AM EDT
[#20]
If you think guided weapons are expensive, think of how expensive 40 rounds that miss are, after the target isn’t killed and kills your people instead.
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:01:23 PM EDT
[#21]
As much as I wish we could get guided weapons into UA's hands, I can understand why we may be reluctant to do so. UA is still green on the battlefield as others have pointed out in how equipment was being deployed. That endangers combat valuable equipment and puts it in a position to be destroyed by the enemy and likewise exposing our technology to the enemy. If it were our troops on the battlefield, it would be an orc wasteland. You might train a crew in two weeks to operate the weapon but you're not going to train them where to hide, where to move, how to protect assets in that period of time. They are doing surprisingly well against the many odds. I hope we can give them every advantage.
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:18:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Exactly, I would rather have one weapon that can hit exactly where I want than 500 that only have a small chance of hitting where I want. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Et2ss: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Thermal image of Russian S-8 unguided rocket lofting. You can see the round all the way to the impact point. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vc2m1e/video_of_russian_airforce_firing_toward_ukrainian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 But did it actually hit anything? Great question, no one actually knows lol. I would imagine if your that desperate to hit a target and can't do it because you have no air superiority, or guided weapons, that you'd have dozens of such aircraft fly together and loft hundreds of these to create the effect of an MLRS strike. Two aircraft firing these doesn't seem like it would do much, and the dispersion seems large. Exactly, I would rather have one weapon that can hit exactly where I want than 500 that only have a small chance of hitting where I want. In testing with indirect fire, 1 guided projectile was required in a mission that would require 100 ballistic projectiles |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:26:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The US has 900 M777s, 2500 M1s, 4000 plus Bradley's, a thousand M109s. Working backwards from MTOE and forgetting the float tanks and that artillery is often in the Guard isn't the best idea. Those are probably good numbers to ask for. Doesn't have to be top notch stuff. How many M198's are sitting around? |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:34:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: How many M198's are sitting around? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The US has 900 M777s, 2500 M1s, 4000 plus Bradley's, a thousand M109s. Working backwards from MTOE and forgetting the float tanks and that artillery is often in the Guard isn't the best idea. Those are probably good numbers to ask for. Doesn't have to be top notch stuff. How many M198's are sitting around? We “sold” 120 to Iraq and 55 to Thailand, probably a couple hundred in the various depots left, |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:35:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ryan_Scott]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: How many M198's are sitting around? Dunno, I wonder why if we have any they weren’t sent though. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:36:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Reporter reveals almost none of $40B Ukraine money actually made it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyj22U036jQOur government is the weak, corrupt, distortion of reality we claim all others are. This is the weakness putin saw in the west. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:45:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: As much as I wish we could get guided weapons into UA's hands, I can understand why we may be reluctant to do so. UA is still green on the battlefield as others have pointed out in how equipment was being deployed. That endangers combat valuable equipment and puts it in a position to be destroyed by the enemy and likewise exposing our technology to the enemy. If it were our troops on the battlefield, it would be an orc wasteland. You might train a crew in two weeks to operate the weapon but you're not going to train them where to hide, where to move, how to protect assets in that period of time. They are doing surprisingly well against the many odds. I hope we can give them every advantage. The human element of training and improvement is probably as or more important than the hardware at this point. I don't know if they are able to rotate people out to western Ukraine, Poland, etc to train on these finer skills/coordination or if you could send experts forward to try to mentor them in the field (that would have to be extremely difficult). I'm sure the west is trying to push what they can in weapons and logistics but I doubt that alone will be the key to achieving tactical superiority. I would think that Russia's institutional barriers will allow Ukraine to improve faster if applied in an intentional manner. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:48:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Dunno, I wonder why if we have any they weren’t sent though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Cypher15: How many M198's are sitting around? Dunno, I wonder why if we have any they weren’t sent though. They have been sitting in level A storage for years. Each one of them would needs to be refurbished which would involve replacing many dozen seals, stripping and replacing lubricants and preservatives, draining and replacing fluids, and the recharging of gas and proofing of the recoiling mechanisms. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:50:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: They have been sitting in level A storage for years. Each one of them would needs to be refurbished which would involve replacing many dozen seals, stripping and replacing lubricants and preservatives, draining and replacing fluids, and the recharging of gas and proofing of the recoiling mechanisms. If they don’t do that for this crisis, might as well surplus them because they won’t do it for anything. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 12:54:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AgeOne: Our government is the weak, corrupt, distortion of reality we claim all others are. This is the weakness putin saw in the west. Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:03:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nomansland: The human element of training and improvement is probably as or more important than the hardware at this point. I don't know if they are able to rotate people out to western Ukraine, Poland, etc to train on these finer skills/coordination or if you could send experts forward to try to mentor them in the field (that would have to be extremely difficult). I'm sure the west is trying to push what they can in weapons and logistics but I doubt that alone will be the key to achieving tactical superiority. I would think that Russia's institutional barriers will allow Ukraine to improve faster if applied in an intentional manner. I mentioned that before. Each system requires training, maintenance, parts. It would probably have been better to go around the world and buy up every T-64, T72 or other Soviet/Russian weapons system that could be found. at least the operation is similar. Tanks are horrible for maintenance. Things break all the time. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:06:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By AgeOne: Our government is the weak, corrupt, distortion of reality we claim all others are. This is the weakness putin saw in the west. Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. Except if the reporting posted earlier is correct, they aren't getting 40 large in equipment and supplies either.
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:14:31 PM EDT
[#33]
It's almost a week old, so apologies if it's already been posted. The question is: "How many other countries should Russia denazify?"
 What other countries should we denazify? |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:16:24 PM EDT
[#34]
It still looks to me like the west only wants to give enough help to Ukraine in order to keep russia using up their own military resources. I guess the question is that if this russian plan of bombing the shit out of stuff until nothing is left actually works for them to take ground, is the west willing to give ukraine enough cannons to stop russia.
Or here's an idea, how about we send enough for Ukraine to survive. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:19:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If they don’t do that for this crisis, might as well surplus them because they won’t do it for anything. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By R0N: They have been sitting in level A storage for years. Each one of them would needs to be refurbished which would involve replacing many dozen seals, stripping and replacing lubricants and preservatives, draining and replacing fluids, and the recharging of gas and proofing of the recoiling mechanisms. If they don’t do that for this crisis, might as well surplus them because they won’t do it for anything. They have been selling them through foreign military sales |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:26:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: It's almost a week old, so apologies if it's already been posted. The question is: "How many other countries should Russia denazify?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc7G6AE3stgMaybe they can denazify the whole world by killing everyone who isn’t ethnically Russian. How’s that for a final solution? |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:28:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Next step, give it legs and atgm arm pods. https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/91/Bushwacker_RGilClan_v02.png?timestamp=20210415232433 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By Illegible_Signature: Well, I guess Putin was right about Nazis in Europe. Looks like the Germans are bringing back the Panther. Rheinmetall Panther That's a cool looking tank. https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/media/editor_media/rm_defence/produktbilder/panther_kf51/Panther_1_breit.jpg Next step, give it legs and atgm arm pods. https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/91/Bushwacker_RGilClan_v02.png?timestamp=20210415232433 it's a panther, it should have a PPC
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:38:28 PM EDT
[#38]
I haven't figured out the irregularity and sometimes the point of the United Kingdom's MOD briefing. No map this time.
My suspicion is Russia's production of advanced electronics will be closer to non-existent than troubled, but the MOD seems to have a penchant for understatement. 
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:40:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MBUZICHOMA: I mentioned that before. Each system requires training, maintenance, parts. It would probably have been better to go around the world and buy up every T-64, T72 or other Soviet/Russian weapons system that could be found. at least the operation is similar. Tanks are horrible for maintenance. Things break all the time. Them Tread-Heads spent more time working on their mounts than anything else.  
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:41:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By AgeOne: Our government is the weak, corrupt, distortion of reality we claim all others are. This is the weakness putin saw in the west. Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. Loan guarantees for 2030 don't send beans, bullets, and bombs to the front. The Ukrainians are screaming for small arms ammunition and artillery rounds and they aren't getting them. Assholes laughing and saying how the russian army isn't shit aren't looking at what's needed to fight even a second rate army. Loan guarantees and money for U.S. arms manufacturers don't do shit for the war today. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:44:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Reporter reveals almost none of $40B Ukraine money actually made it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyj22U036jQBoy are we sleazy and corrupt in the USA! |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:47:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Thermal image of Russian S-8 unguided rocket lofting. You can see the round all the way to the impact point. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/vc2m1e/video_of_russian_airforce_firing_toward_ukrainian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 I hope they're dug in like Charlie in Cu Chi! |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:55:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Ukraine isn’t going to get cash. They get weapons. The cash goes to USG contractors and employees, NGOs, and NATO governments. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By realwar: Reporter reveals almost none of $40B Ukraine money actually made it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyj22U036jQUkraine isn’t going to get cash. They get weapons. The cash goes to USG contractors and employees, NGOs, and NATO governments. What was it 12billion that went to directly prop up their government and it’s functions? |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:57:16 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By AgeOne: Our government is the weak, corrupt, distortion of reality we claim all others are. This is the weakness putin saw in the west. Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. Spread out to 2031 while we use the money to pay our own troops? 2031?!?!? Makes the Germans look like saviors! |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:59:05 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 6/14/2022 2:09:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: They have been sitting in level A storage for years. Each one of them would needs to be refurbished which would involve replacing many dozen seals, stripping and replacing lubricants and preservatives, draining and replacing fluids, and the recharging of gas and proofing of the recoiling mechanisms. The Mandus Group apparently does refurbs for foreign sales: https://www.mandusgroup.com/services/artillery-inspect-repair-program/ Wiki says that there were 1300 M198 built for US and 300-400 sold to others. I'm not sure how many we still have but I'm not seeing lists of large numbers that were given away or sold (so I would assume we still have a decent amount to give though would need to be refurbed). The FH70 is interesting - it says that Japan built 480 under license by Japan Steel Works (how many could they give or could they spin up and make more?). Germany has 150 but I doubt that helps (Italy has a decent amount and I think has committed some to Ukraine). Of the 152mm - Wiki says Ukraine had about 300 self-propelled (2S3 and 2S19 Msta-S) and ~700 towed (D-20, 2A36 and 2A65) - so that is a capability we need to replace with 155mm if we can't supply 152 mm (probably best long term to shift to 155mm anyway - I suspect logistics would be problematic with the separate types). The M777 is a lot lighter and better system (even excluding the digital fire enhancements) but I would think the M198 would help to backfill the loss of their existing 152mm if available. Wiki lists Ukraine has about 1050 122mm systems - would these need to be replaced with 105mm? (600 2S1 self-propelled, and 450 D-30 towed) I'm guessing the 155mm is preferred on this high intensity battle where you are trying to take out hard targets but would like to hear more informed comments. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 2:18:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: How many M198's are sitting around? Here...count them yourself. 40.19452428317266, -120.14582885841087 Last time I was at SIAD, there were thousands of howitzers parked there. I wanted to sneak out a M109A6 firing mechanism, but chickened out. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 2:20:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If they don’t do that for this crisis, might as well surplus them because they won’t do it for anything. Yup. They are simply not taking things seriously OR plan to use Ukraine as a slow meatgrinder. All this shit sitting around slowly deteriorating and turning to junk. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies about military industrial complex wanting this to drag out in order to sell new weapons while letting perfectly good stuff go to waste. Not even considering that every day 100-200 UA KIA that could have used this stuff. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2022 2:24:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Lol. Ukraine is getting 40 bil in equipment and supplies. They weren't getting a green check to put in a bank to spend as they pleased. LOL is right. 40Bil in weapons to UA? LOL. They will be thrilled if they get 4B worth. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 2:27:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Yup. They are simply not taking things seriously OR plan to use Ukraine as a slow meatgrinder. All this shit sitting around slowly deteriorating and turning to junk. I'm starting to believe the conspiracies about military industrial complex wanting this to drag out in order to sell new weapons while letting perfectly good stuff go to waste. Not even considering that every day 100-200 UA KIA that could have used this stuff. If you let the MIC run the show they would send every system they could that’s got a replacement in development. They want to sell new equipment to the US. |
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