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ND, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:29:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stevo89: The Holodomor pushed a lot of Ukrainians to emigrate to western Canada. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stevo89: Originally Posted By Shadyman: Same up here in North Dakota. And I seen a lot of Ukrainian flags flying in Manitoba Canada too. The Holodomor pushed a lot of Ukrainians to emigrate to western Canada. A lot emigrated here also. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:29:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: Pretty girl, collaborator, and now just a grease spot in the parking area.  Good boom |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:36:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Props to the guy who was willing to push the button on a traitor. But I think he used a bit too much explosive. Maybe a class or something is in order for their organization. Maybe putting the bomb up against a gas tank has side effects. Better more than not enough. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:40:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama_Rebel: phase 1- get back to feb 24th borders phase 2- retake pre 2014 borders phase 3 ? Remove Pirogi from Konigsberg, return to Czechia. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:41:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: If you think what we are spending there is the cause of inflation, you need to educate yourself. What we are doing in this war is being what America is seen as, the beacon of freedom and hope for those folks in Ukraine. These people look to us as a model to aspire to, unlike the inbred goat fucking morons we wasted 20 fucking years letting them hate us and not wanting us there. Unlike the inbred goat fucking morons we wasted 20 years on, these folks have the potential to be an economic powerhouse in Europe, and a great trading partner. These are intelligent, motivated people who were the brains behind soviet and russian tech. We are spending a small portion of our defense budget supplying weapons to Ukraine. Fuck, the money the pentagon cannot account for dwarfs what is being spent. Biden shutting off new drilling and exploration increasing the price of oil, shutting down the world for covid, and the ensuing supply chain issues plus non stop covid bucks, and bailout plans for their cronies has a hell of a lot more to do with inflation than supplying arms and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Absolutely correct. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:46:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: If your 'go to community college and take an econ class' wasn't economic snobbery, I'm sorry, but that's what it sounds like. You're going through a lot of gymnastics to overlook the fact that the public is paying the price, and the main ROI will be to private outfits. Maybe I've just missed all the headlines about the defense industry offering free weapons to Ukraine, and State turning them down. Again, this is exactly the problem here. Rather than admitting that it sucks to pay for this in taxes and inflation, you try to make it seem like it is a good thing economically. It is not. You can try to make up theoretical situations where it MIGHT pay for itself, but those are longshots, and we all know it. There are MANY things in life that are the right thing to do, but the actual doing of them is costly. I've not found that lying to myself about that fact makes them less costly. Edit to add: I'm not sure where you're getting the political litmus test thing. That's not my intent at all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eat_Beef: Originally Posted By Jack67: You seem to make the case aid is a political litmus test, not a rational exercise. ("Ukraine bros ". - " conservative ", " everything is perfect and Holy"). No one at all has said anything is "holy" about it, or flawless and certain in the process. Please don't mischaracterize my or anyone's arguments so grossly. It's not expressly a "liberal" or "conservative" issue. In fact, it's likely the most bi-partisan issue this country has seen since 9/11. Lockmart, Raytheon, etc. can't "prime the pump" because: a) that's not at all what "priming the pump" means in economic terms, by definition. They also b) aren't allowed to conduct their own foreign policy by unilaterally arming who they want, and c) they don't stockpile meaningful levels of compled systems for emergencies - this is uniquely a government function. It's not a liberal or conservative issue as you seem to want to make it - those are simply economic and governmental realities. There is no "snobbery" in pointing out - logically, clearly - some basic economic realities when those arguments are brought up. Nor was there any straw man argument used. Calling it "snobbery" just makes an ad hominem argument instead of contributing to the conversation. I think this thread may seem like an echo chamber to some because it tries to stick to reasoned analysis and not chest thumping or shouting. If your 'go to community college and take an econ class' wasn't economic snobbery, I'm sorry, but that's what it sounds like. You're going through a lot of gymnastics to overlook the fact that the public is paying the price, and the main ROI will be to private outfits. Maybe I've just missed all the headlines about the defense industry offering free weapons to Ukraine, and State turning them down. Again, this is exactly the problem here. Rather than admitting that it sucks to pay for this in taxes and inflation, you try to make it seem like it is a good thing economically. It is not. You can try to make up theoretical situations where it MIGHT pay for itself, but those are longshots, and we all know it. There are MANY things in life that are the right thing to do, but the actual doing of them is costly. I've not found that lying to myself about that fact makes them less costly. Edit to add: I'm not sure where you're getting the political litmus test thing. That's not my intent at all. The US govt and public get their ROI as: 1. large weakening of the US's biggest and longest modern strategic competitor, greater trade with Europe, and new greater allies in the region 2. additional arms and munitions to better deter our other large competitor at a cheaper unit cost due to economies of scale with FMS 3. lower and more stable prices for goods through trade due to greater security and peace via the increased deterrence those arms provided |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:53:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Are you so blind you cannot see that by sending arms to Ukraine we will payed back many fold by then being able to sell arms to other countries? Can you not see that by our defense contractors selling arms to other countries (and the examples are already rolling in) that this will provide jobs for thousand of Americans and stimulate our economy? It will wind up benefiting everyday Americans. Can you not see that the defeat of Russia on the world stage is truly the defeat of an evil empire that will benefit just about everyone in the free world? Not just America, but the rest too? Can you not see that we are getting this benefit for PEANUTS? Yes we have spent NEXT TO NOTHING so far in the endeavor and already are reaping the rewards. Are you truly that blind? So blinded by partisan bullshit you cannot see past your nose? You speak of echo chambers, when you cannot even hold a hard though for yourself, but echo some crap from some idiot talking points you have heard somewhere. If there are costs in supporting Ukraine, they will be paid back to us and the rest of the world many times over. In case you haven't noticed then I will point it out to you, that we are busy helping defeat an enemy of ours that has been an enemy for around 100 years, and we are doing it on the cheap. The Ukrainians are the ones that are bravely dying every day for the freedom of the rest of the world to rid the world of the evil empire, or what is left of it. And you begrudge us even supplying the arms to do it. I truly have a hard time understanding you and others that are as blind as you. And I mean that sincerely. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: I already did, in my first post about it on page 3129. Since then many have come in saying it will end up paying back more than it costs. Here is the original comment: Worth giving them away to demonstrate real world battlefield effectiveness to potential buyers. To say nothing of the lessons being gained for our own use. Again, you've all proven my point about this echo chamber, anyone who doesn't agree that everything is great is mobbed, without regard to what is true or logical. Go ahead, flame me, I'm going back to lurking, and you all can go back to slapping one another on the back and pretending there aren't costs associated with our support of Ukraine. Are you so blind you cannot see that by sending arms to Ukraine we will payed back many fold by then being able to sell arms to other countries? Can you not see that by our defense contractors selling arms to other countries (and the examples are already rolling in) that this will provide jobs for thousand of Americans and stimulate our economy? It will wind up benefiting everyday Americans. Can you not see that the defeat of Russia on the world stage is truly the defeat of an evil empire that will benefit just about everyone in the free world? Not just America, but the rest too? Can you not see that we are getting this benefit for PEANUTS? Yes we have spent NEXT TO NOTHING so far in the endeavor and already are reaping the rewards. Are you truly that blind? So blinded by partisan bullshit you cannot see past your nose? You speak of echo chambers, when you cannot even hold a hard though for yourself, but echo some crap from some idiot talking points you have heard somewhere. If there are costs in supporting Ukraine, they will be paid back to us and the rest of the world many times over. In case you haven't noticed then I will point it out to you, that we are busy helping defeat an enemy of ours that has been an enemy for around 100 years, and we are doing it on the cheap. The Ukrainians are the ones that are bravely dying every day for the freedom of the rest of the world to rid the world of the evil empire, or what is left of it. And you begrudge us even supplying the arms to do it. I truly have a hard time understanding you and others that are as blind as you. And I mean that sincerely. There are none so blind as those who will not see. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:54:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter: There's some weird stuff going on at around the 12 second mark of that video. The two are walking towards the front of the car, and as she passes the plywood door (?) the one behind does something and there is an odd "wave" of the plywood door towards the right side/top. I can't tell what it is but if you roll it back and forth right around those frames the plywood almost appears to move or flex. Just after that there is the flash, and it looks like Natasha goes ass over tit forward, blyating onto the pavement forward and left of the car with her clothes blown off. No indication of Boris' earthly remains noticeable. I agree. It looks like there was an explosive behind the plywood and then some sort of squib or misfire, guy pushed her out of the way. Not far enough. He seemed to lean away from the door after it shimmies. There is a lot of debris on the asphalt which looks like it was part of the plywood door. There isnt any debris blown forward that would indicate there was an explosion in the trunk. Occams razor: Someone tore the door down, put a bomb in the doorway, then tacked plywood. Perhaps it was double primed and a msifired blasting cap shimmied the door. Second clack blew up the door and targets. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 7:58:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Remove Pirogi from Konigsberg, return to Czechia. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By Bama_Rebel: phase 1- get back to feb 24th borders phase 2- retake pre 2014 borders phase 3 ? Remove Pirogi from Konigsberg, return to Czechia. Phase 3 - Clear Transnistria, get some of the good vineyard areas back in play to up wine production.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 8:04:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: There are none so blind as those who will not see. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Originally Posted By K0UA: Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: I already did, in my first post about it on page 3129. Since then many have come in saying it will end up paying back more than it costs. Here is the original comment: Worth giving them away to demonstrate real world battlefield effectiveness to potential buyers. To say nothing of the lessons being gained for our own use. Again, you've all proven my point about this echo chamber, anyone who doesn't agree that everything is great is mobbed, without regard to what is true or logical. Go ahead, flame me, I'm going back to lurking, and you all can go back to slapping one another on the back and pretending there aren't costs associated with our support of Ukraine. Are you so blind you cannot see that by sending arms to Ukraine we will payed back many fold by then being able to sell arms to other countries? Can you not see that by our defense contractors selling arms to other countries (and the examples are already rolling in) that this will provide jobs for thousand of Americans and stimulate our economy? It will wind up benefiting everyday Americans. Can you not see that the defeat of Russia on the world stage is truly the defeat of an evil empire that will benefit just about everyone in the free world? Not just America, but the rest too? Can you not see that we are getting this benefit for PEANUTS? Yes we have spent NEXT TO NOTHING so far in the endeavor and already are reaping the rewards. Are you truly that blind? So blinded by partisan bullshit you cannot see past your nose? You speak of echo chambers, when you cannot even hold a hard though for yourself, but echo some crap from some idiot talking points you have heard somewhere. If there are costs in supporting Ukraine, they will be paid back to us and the rest of the world many times over. In case you haven't noticed then I will point it out to you, that we are busy helping defeat an enemy of ours that has been an enemy for around 100 years, and we are doing it on the cheap. The Ukrainians are the ones that are bravely dying every day for the freedom of the rest of the world to rid the world of the evil empire, or what is left of it. And you begrudge us even supplying the arms to do it. I truly have a hard time understanding you and others that are as blind as you. And I mean that sincerely. There are none so blind as those who will not see. And what really chaps me is that there are people in power right now that believe like Mr. Eat_beef, and have the same short sighted attitude. It is a real disappointment to me. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 8:15:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Not sure, I’d like that “unwound” clarified by a native speaker. It sounds like they managed to do well enough to reinforce already existing positions. I believe he meant the positions had been softened up by the artillery. It is not clear to me whose positions since he jumps from the news of the new Ukrainian units' arrival straight to the positions being taken without specifying the subject. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 8:23:39 PM EDT
[#12]
 UKRAINIAN PIE - Lyrics Hal Pollock, Vocals Alex Kozar 2 BILLION VIEWS ON TIKTOK esquirerecords.net |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:06:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Sure vlad, we see your modern weaponry on display. You buy the vast majority of it from your enemies, or cob shit together from off the shelf. You want me to believe your nukes are the best and properly cared for? Lo fucking L. If nato jumps into this hootenanny, your military wouldn't last a week. Go ahead and pop a nuke, we will end you, russia will no longer exist. This is why I am not a diplomat. Indeed sir. Same here. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:27:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I agree. It looks like there was an explosive behind the plywood and then some sort of squib or misfire, guy pushed her out of the way. Not far enough. He seemed to lean away from the door after it shimmies. There is a lot of debris on the asphalt which looks like it was part of the plywood door. There isnt any debris blown forward that would indicate there was an explosion in the trunk. Occams razor: Someone tore the door down, put a bomb in the doorway, then tacked plywood. Perhaps it was double primed and a msifired blasting cap shimmied the door. Second clack blew up the door and targets. My theory is different from yours. It will be very interesting to see how it turns out. We need some kind of easy betting system for stuff like this to make it more interesting and fun. My friend grew up in Wv schools many years ago. The science teacher was a big guy who had the job of using a board for punishing the more hard headed students. My friend told me that in science class if there was disagreement about something among the students, a guess about how an experiment would turn out, a wager would be made. They would bet the board. Whoever lost would receive a lick with the board from the science teacher. He said science class was an absolute blast. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:29:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: doc540]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: I agree. It looks like there was an explosive behind the plywood and then some sort of squib or misfire, guy pushed her out of the way. Not far enough. He seemed to lean away from the door after it shimmies. There is a lot of debris on the asphalt which looks like it was part of the plywood door. There isnt any debris blown forward that would indicate there was an explosion in the trunk. Occams razor: Someone tore the door down, put a bomb in the doorway, then tacked plywood. Perhaps it was double primed and a msifired blasting cap shimmied the door. Second clack blew up the door and targets. point of impact in the concrete wall just to the left rear of the car? appears they heard something coming and reacted in two different ways neither of which made any difference  |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:33:50 PM EDT
[#16]
A little off topic, but has there been a conflict involving Russia where they didn't call the opposition fascists and nazis? I was reading about the Transnistrian War when, surprise, they had to help the Trannys fight the fascists.
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:39:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By easttxshooter: A little off topic, but has there been a conflict involving Russia where they didn't call the opposition fascists and nazis? I was reading about the Transnistrian War when, surprise, they had to help the Trannys fight the fascists. Reminds you of some people here who call everyone who disagrees with their bullshit Nazis/fascists. Yet when you look at actions you find they're projecting and they are in fact the fascists. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:39:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By easttxshooter: A little off topic, but has there been a conflict involving Russia where they didn't call the opposition fascists and nazis? I was reading about the Transnistrian War when, surprise, they had to help the Trannys fight the fascists. Being indignant about Nazis is easier than being indignant bout your victim resisting robbery, rape and murder. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:48:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Pictures of the Year: How Ukraine withstood Russia's assault
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/year-end-ukraine/ Ukrainians astonished the world - and themselves - in 2022, withstanding an all-out military assault by a superpower meant to crush them within days. Millions fled to safety. Millions endured bombardment in basements and bomb shelters. Tens of thousands perished in cities laid to waste by the invaders. And millions rallied to the cause of a nation, taking up arms, volunteering in ambulances, ferrying food to villages at the front, caring for one another’s children. Some remarkable photos inside as well as commentary. Reuters is very much on the ground in Ukraine, not just "reporting" from some newsroom about Ukraine. 
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NV, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 9:55:04 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:00:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Absolutely correct. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Originally Posted By lorazepam: If you think what we are spending there is the cause of inflation, you need to educate yourself. What we are doing in this war is being what America is seen as, the beacon of freedom and hope for those folks in Ukraine. These people look to us as a model to aspire to, unlike the inbred goat fucking morons we wasted 20 fucking years letting them hate us and not wanting us there. Unlike the inbred goat fucking morons we wasted 20 years on, these folks have the potential to be an economic powerhouse in Europe, and a great trading partner. These are intelligent, motivated people who were the brains behind soviet and russian tech. We are spending a small portion of our defense budget supplying weapons to Ukraine. Fuck, the money the pentagon cannot account for dwarfs what is being spent. Biden shutting off new drilling and exploration increasing the price of oil, shutting down the world for covid, and the ensuing supply chain issues plus non stop covid bucks, and bailout plans for their cronies has a hell of a lot more to do with inflation than supplying arms and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Absolutely correct. We've spent 150 billion making student loan payments for 99% of borrowers over the last 2.75 years for the most educated in this country Ukraine is chump change 
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:08:11 PM EDT
[#22]
ISW assessment for December 7th.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-7 |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:10:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Well, we’re up to about 90 billion to them now, hardly “chump change”.
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Well, we’re up to about 90 billion to them now, hardly “chump change”.  This is last years.  |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:18:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Well, we’re up to about 90 billion to them now, hardly “chump change”. Yeah, that's almost 10% of our annual defense budget or 1.6% of out total annual budget to disarm RU. Total waste. 
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:19:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Pictures of the Year: How Ukraine withstood Russia's assault https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/year-end-ukraine/ Ukrainians astonished the world - and themselves - in 2022, withstanding an all-out military assault by a superpower meant to crush them within days. Millions fled to safety. Millions endured bombardment in basements and bomb shelters. Tens of thousands perished in cities laid to waste by the invaders. And millions rallied to the cause of a nation, taking up arms, volunteering in ambulances, ferrying food to villages at the front, caring for one another's children. Some remarkable photos inside as well as commentary. Reuters is very much on the ground in Ukraine, not just "reporting" from some newsroom about Ukraine. https://i.ibb.co/smM6nf5/Screen-Shot-2022-12-07-at-8-44-41-PM.png |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:21:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Not sure, I’d like that “unwound” clarified by a native speaker. It sounds like they managed to do well enough to reinforce already existing positions. Here "unwound" means huge casualties, almost destroyed. I'm pretty sure he's trying to say 3 fresh UA brigades got hit by RU arty but his Russian is awful. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:24:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: point of impact in the concrete wall just to the left rear of the car? appears they heard something coming and reacted in two different ways neither of which made any difference https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/ukraine_woman1-2627666.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Originally Posted By CharlieR: I agree. It looks like there was an explosive behind the plywood and then some sort of squib or misfire, guy pushed her out of the way. Not far enough. He seemed to lean away from the door after it shimmies. There is a lot of debris on the asphalt which looks like it was part of the plywood door. There isnt any debris blown forward that would indicate there was an explosion in the trunk. Occams razor: Someone tore the door down, put a bomb in the doorway, then tacked plywood. Perhaps it was double primed and a msifired blasting cap shimmied the door. Second clack blew up the door and targets. point of impact in the concrete wall just to the left rear of the car? appears they heard something coming and reacted in two different ways neither of which made any difference https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/ukraine_woman1-2627666.jpg We all saw the one lady push the other; hearing something inbound is a plausible explanation why she pushed her suddenly. Just before that, the two appeared to be talking calmly. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:30:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Well, we’re up to about 90 billion to them now, hardly “chump change”. For this country, it kind of is…. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:38:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AWMCoalition: Yeah, that's almost 10% of our annual defense budget or 1.6% of out total annual budget to disarm RU. Total waste. Not saying it is, but come on, be at least honest about it. Some of you all are so wrapped up in this conflict that you have decided to turn a blind eye to how much has actually been spent. According to your very own graphs that’s 12% of our defense budget and still climbing. And it’s not just old antiquated systems we’re sending them, they’re getting some cutting edge equipment that we might just have a need for in a future conflict that’s being depleted as well. As some of you have mentioned, if we as in NATO gets drug into this as more than a proxy opponent, we may find ourselves in short supply. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:42:51 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:44:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Here "unwound" means huge casualties, almost destroyed. I'm pretty sure he's trying to say 3 fresh UA brigades got hit by RU arty but his Russian is awful. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Alex9661: Originally Posted By Prime: Not sure, I’d like that “unwound” clarified by a native speaker. It sounds like they managed to do well enough to reinforce already existing positions. Here "unwound" means huge casualties, almost destroyed. I'm pretty sure he's trying to say 3 fresh UA brigades got hit by RU arty but his Russian is awful. I took it as three fresh brigades replaced other units who had been “unwound” by artillery. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:45:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Not saying it is, but come on, be at least honest about it. Some of you all are so wrapped up in this conflict that you have decided to turn a blind eye to how much has actually been spent. According to your very own graphs that’s 12% of our defense budget and still climbing. And it’s not just old antiquated systems we’re sending them, they’re getting some cutting edge equipment that we might just have a need for in a future conflict that’s being depleted as well. As some of you have mentioned, if we as in NATO gets drug into this as more than a proxy opponent, we may find ourselves in short supply. You are acting like the quoted figure - whatever it is, is actually coming out of the budget. It’s not; not even remotely. It’s basically imaginary as nothing is “marked to market” as if it were a truly valued asset. Let’s put it like this. You have an annual clothing budget of $5,000. You decide to donate $500 to charity. Then you go pull out a crap load of stuff you never wear from the closet and dresser, mark it up to full retail, and boom, there’s $450 worth of stuff you call $450 of your $500 donation. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:49:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: theskuh]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Not saying it is, but come on, be at least honest about it. Some of you all are so wrapped up in this conflict that you have decided to turn a blind eye to how much has actually been spent. According to your very own graphs that's 12% of our defense budget and still climbing. And it's not just old antiquated systems we're sending them, they're getting some cutting edge equipment that we might just have a need for in a future conflict that's being depleted as well. As some of you have mentioned, if we as in NATO gets drug into this as more than a proxy opponent, we may find ourselves in short supply. Agree. Its going to start becoming a real issue if this drags out for another year. It is still a bargain but its going to become a more noticeable funding problem. We can't fund this war indefinitely. But it is worth it to grind down the Russians and develop and refine weapons. My issue is if we have the industrial capability to spin up enough capacity if we need to. This is a good stress test of the MIC. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 10:57:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spydercomonkey]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: They never caught the frogmen who blew up the Russian’s pipeline; it would be a shame if they blew up that flotilla next.  (j/k. We all know the Russians sabotaged their own line once they realized Europe is never buying their petroleum again. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By TV175: The large transfer flotilla off the west coast of Portugal is unsustainable. They are literally pumping oil from small bulk carriers to large bulk carriers in the open sea and then making the journey to India or China. They never caught the frogmen who blew up the Russian’s pipeline; it would be a shame if they blew up that flotilla next. (j/k. We all know the Russians sabotaged their own line once they realized Europe is never buying their petroleum again. I'm still rooting for it to have been the British on some James Bond flex: 
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:00:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Question for those whose knowledge about armored vehicles extends beyond the internet: How useful will the M1117s be for Ukraine? They'll obviously be better than technicals as battlefield taxis, and I think they'll be more useful than M113s, but how do they compare to vehicles like the Stryker and the Bradley?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:00:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: point of impact in the concrete wall just to the left rear of the car? appears they heard something coming and reacted in two different ways neither of which made any difference https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/ukraine_woman1-2627666.jpg In some previous vid's of Kamikaze drone attacks, it appears that the drone makes a quick circle then swoops in. You can usually see the soldiers being attacked react about 1 second before impact. Maybe they are reacting to a drone swooping in. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:04:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Question for those whose knowledge about armored vehicles extends beyond the internet: How useful will the M1117s be for Ukraine? They'll obviously be better than technicals as battlefield taxis, and I think they'll be more useful than M113s, but how do they compare to vehicles like the Stryker and the Bradley? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:06:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Question for those whose knowledge about armored vehicles extends beyond the internet: How useful will the M1117s be for Ukraine? They'll obviously be better than technicals as battlefield taxis, and I think they'll be more useful than M113s, but how do they compare to vehicles like the Stryker and the Bradley? Good question. I never even heard of the M1117 before. (But I did drive an M113 once). |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:06:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: If you think what we are spending there is the cause of inflation, you need to educate yourself. What we are doing in this war is being what America is seen as, the beacon of freedom and hope for those folks in Ukraine. These people look to us as a model to aspire to, unlike the inbred goat fucking morons we wasted 20 fucking years letting them hate us and not wanting us there. Unlike the inbred goat fucking morons we wasted 20 years on, these folks have the potential to be an economic powerhouse in Europe, and a great trading partner. These are intelligent, motivated people who were the brains behind soviet and russian tech. We are spending a small portion of our defense budget supplying weapons to Ukraine. Fuck, the money the pentagon cannot account for dwarfs what is being spent. Biden shutting off new drilling and exploration increasing the price of oil, shutting down the world for covid, and the ensuing supply chain issues plus non stop covid bucks, and bailout plans for their cronies has a hell of a lot more to do with inflation than supplying arms and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Leave it to Lorazepam to sum everything up perfectly, succinctly, and without bullshit. As always.  |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:07:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Not saying it is, but come on, be at least honest about it. Some of you all are so wrapped up in this conflict that you have decided to turn a blind eye to how much has actually been spent. According to your very own graphs that’s 12% of our defense budget and still climbing. And it’s not just old antiquated systems we’re sending them, they’re getting some cutting edge equipment that we might just have a need for in a future conflict that’s being depleted as well. As some of you have mentioned, if we as in NATO gets drug into this as more than a proxy opponent, we may find ourselves in short supply. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Originally Posted By AWMCoalition: Yeah, that's almost 10% of our annual defense budget or 1.6% of out total annual budget to disarm RU. Total waste. Not saying it is, but come on, be at least honest about it. Some of you all are so wrapped up in this conflict that you have decided to turn a blind eye to how much has actually been spent. According to your very own graphs that’s 12% of our defense budget and still climbing. And it’s not just old antiquated systems we’re sending them, they’re getting some cutting edge equipment that we might just have a need for in a future conflict that’s being depleted as well. As some of you have mentioned, if we as in NATO gets drug into this as more than a proxy opponent, we may find ourselves in short supply. Except a huge percentage of the early blocks were for costs to house troops in various European countries and expenses related to NATO that had little to do directly with Ukraine and more to do with preventing the rooskies from attacking elsewhere. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:08:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Not saying it is, but come on, be at least honest about it. Some of you all are so wrapped up in this conflict that you have decided to turn a blind eye to how much has actually been spent. According to your very own graphs that’s 12% of our defense budget and still climbing. And it’s not just old antiquated systems we’re sending them, they’re getting some cutting edge equipment that we might just have a need for in a future conflict that’s being depleted as well. As some of you have mentioned, if we as in NATO gets drug into this as more than a proxy opponent, we may find ourselves in short supply. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: Originally Posted By AWMCoalition: Yeah, that's almost 10% of our annual defense budget or 1.6% of out total annual budget to disarm RU. Total waste. Not saying it is, but come on, be at least honest about it. Some of you all are so wrapped up in this conflict that you have decided to turn a blind eye to how much has actually been spent. According to your very own graphs that’s 12% of our defense budget and still climbing. And it’s not just old antiquated systems we’re sending them, they’re getting some cutting edge equipment that we might just have a need for in a future conflict that’s being depleted as well. As some of you have mentioned, if we as in NATO gets drug into this as more than a proxy opponent, we may find ourselves in short supply. As has been covered in this thread many times already, we are getting our money’s worth and more. The contributors to this thread explain it to a new bunch of guys every couple of weeks and then we get a new batch coming through and asking the same questions. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:10:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/presidents_fy_2022_discretionary-logo_large.png This is last years. https://static.nationalpriorities.org/images/charts/2021-charts/discretionary-desk.png Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Gunslinger808: Well, we’re up to about 90 billion to them now, hardly “chump change”. https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/presidents_fy_2022_discretionary-logo_large.png This is last years. https://static.nationalpriorities.org/images/charts/2021-charts/discretionary-desk.png You gotta post the whole budget, not just the discretionary piece. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:10:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: You are acting like the quoted figure - whatever it is, is actually coming out of the budget. It’s not; not even remotely. It’s basically imaginary as nothing is “marked to market” as if it were a truly valued asset. Let’s put it like this. You have an annual clothing budget of $5,000. You decide to donate $500 to charity. Then you go pull out a crap load of stuff you never wear from the closet and dresser, mark it up to full retail, and boom, there’s $450 worth of stuff you call $450 of your $500 donation. And some of you are acting as if those systems and money being sent is nothing more than Goodwill hand me downs or garage sale junk. Granted much is out of date equipment better served by the Ukrainians, but a lot is top of the line gear that is not easily replenished even when production is stepped up to a war footing. And yes they are getting considerable currency help as well. I’m all for watching the Russians getting what they’ve deserved for almost a century, but not at the expense of leaving us here short. And yeah, that money to replace it does come from somewhere, Raytheon, Grumman, Lockheed, and other manufacturers expect to get paid, TANSTAAFL. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:13:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spade: You gotta post the whole budget, not just the discretionary piece. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spade: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Gunslinger808: Well, we’re up to about 90 billion to them now, hardly “chump change”. https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/presidents_fy_2022_discretionary-logo_large.png This is last years. https://static.nationalpriorities.org/images/charts/2021-charts/discretionary-desk.png You gotta post the whole budget, not just the discretionary piece. You are welcome to do so if interested, as stated before, other's can cover this much better and in greater detail, it was 6.27 trillion for 2022. Found a break down here: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/#:~:text=In%20fiscal%20year%20 |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:13:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Good question. I never even heard of the M1117 before. (But I did drive an M113 once). |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:16:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: As has been covered in this thread many times already, we are getting our money's worth and more. The contributors to this thread explain it to a new bunch of guys every couple of weeks and then we get a new batch coming through and asking the same questions. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:18:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunslinger808: And some of you are acting as if those systems and money being sent is nothing more than Goodwill hand me downs or garage sale junk. And that is exactly right. Granted much is out of date equipment better served by the Ukrainians, but a lot is top of the line gear that is not easily replenished even when production is stepped up to a war footing. 18 HIMARS is eight/nine weeks of production - at pre-war rates of assembly. We had 410 in inventory nearly a year ago. Show me the crisis. And yes they are getting considerable currency help as well. I’m all for watching the Russians getting what they’ve deserved for almost a century, but not at the expense of leaving us here short. And yeah, that money to replace it does come from somewhere, Raytheon, Grumman, Lockheed, and other manufacturers expect to get paid, TANSTAAFL. If you go down the list of naval assets sent, which I have done by line item, it’s retired stuff, superfluous patrol boats, UUVs that were cancelled. It is all listed as being worth retail and acquisition costs. Please show one item where we are jeopardizing readiness in any meaningful way. It’s one thing to talk about it, but please show one concrete example from real analysis. I’m open to being persuaded - as everyone here is. |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:19:14 PM EDT
[#49]
 Alpha Skills |
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Posted: 12/7/2022 11:20:25 PM EDT
[#50]
 Failed To Load Title |
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