User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:10:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7empest: So damn depressing.  Hopefully the Ukrainians can recover the situation and push the orcs back.And damn it the West needs to stop debating and slow rolling shit. Give the Ukrainians the fucking tools already and they will do the job. Bear in mind that Ukraine has repeatedly said that Bakhmut is not worth anything tactically and not worth bleeding Ukraine in order to hold. It is useful for killing orcs in huge numbers because the russians are willing to sacrifice their own people in order to take it for their own political reasons. Ukraine has apparently set up multiple layers of defensible positions to fall back to, then resume killing orcs. And yeah, we should be sending useful weapons to help Ukraine if we actually/really/honestly would like Ukraine to win. Which I definitely question. From day 1 I have believed "we" are using Ukrainian blood as a tool to grind up russian forces for our own benefits. Our own fucking government has said that the goal is now to break the russian military. Perhaps people with a higher paygrade than mine have come to the conclusion that breaking the russian military is so beneficial to the whole world that it is worth it to spend Ukranian blood to make it happen, as opposed to quickly defeating the russian military in Ukraine and sending a wounded russian military back to russia to regroup. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:11:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: For those interested, Dimitry translated the thermal drone video from yesterday of the Special forces clearing trenches from the Russians in Bakhmut.
Shit! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:17:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Bear in mind that Ukraine has repeatedly said that Bakhmut is not worth anything tactically and not worth bleeding Ukraine in order to hold. It is useful for killing orcs in huge numbers because the russians are willing to sacrifice their own people in order to take it for their own political reasons. Ukraine has apparently set up multiple layers of defensible positions to fall back to, then resume killing orcs. And yeah, we should be sending useful weapons to help Ukraine if we actually/really/honestly would like Ukraine to win. Which I definitely question. From day 1 I have believed "we" are using Ukrainian blood as a tool to grind up russian forces for our own benefits. Our own fucking government has said that the goal is now to break the russian military. Perhaps people with a higher paygrade than mine have come to the conclusion that breaking the russian military is so beneficial to the whole world that it is worth it to spend Ukranian blood to make it happen, as opposed to quickly defeating the russian military in Ukraine and sending a wounded russian military back to russia to regroup. You almost sound like you believe people in power have some kind of morality that motivates them. |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:23:35 PM EDT
[#4]
In a Ukraine Workshop, the Quest to Build the Perfect Grenade
A Ukrainian unit is tinkering with tape, a scale, a 3-D printer and other items to turn a fragmentation grenade into a tank-killer. It’s a steep and risky challenge. https://archive.fo/vyLmM 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:25:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Mike: That line was from his inaugural address in 1961--the year he became president. Time travel? I attributed the sentiment to Kennedy in error. Maybe Eisenhower? |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:25:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Hey, you gotta give some credit. Americans generally suck at geography and foreign languages. Can’t wait for 87% of GD having to learn the names of tiny Pacific islands with multiple different names in languages they can’t pronounce in a war over Taiwan. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: https://i.redd.it/ntpcm5tnq4ba1.png Hey, you gotta give some credit. Americans generally suck at geography and foreign languages. Can’t wait for 87% of GD having to learn the names of tiny Pacific islands with multiple different names in languages they can’t pronounce in a war over Taiwan. Hopefully thats a few more years off lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:30:47 PM EDT
[#7]
|
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:34:56 PM EDT
[#8]
I just noticed this on Google maps. When you hover your mouse over a place, it tells you what the place is, like 'Makiivka, Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine.' 'Taman, Krasnodar Krai, Russia.' But if you do that in Crimea, it only shows the town name, no oblast or country. Google is playing games, denying that Crimea is Ukraine?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 3:49:22 PM EDT
[#9]
'"Wagner" fighters blown to pieces by force of the strike"  “Wagner" fighters blown to pieces by force of the strike |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:05:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Erno86: '"Wagner" fighters blown to pieces by force of the strike"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcjWk2ZLSikUnless that was a tank round, I don't get these one-round artillery salvos. Troops in the open, partially obscured by bushes. Battery, At My Command, High Angle, 3 rounds, shell HE, Charge 7 Red Bag, Fuze VT. That should have done it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:05:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Officials: Russian artillery fire down as much as 75% from wartime high"  Officials: Russian artillery fire down as much as 75% from wartime high |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:07:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swede1986: How about a top-attack grenade? https://dms-cf-03.dimu.org/image/0331wUTm22Yc?dimension=1200x1200 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYy-vXRpm_QBouncing Betty grenade. Clever! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:10:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: In a Ukraine Workshop, the Quest to Build the Perfect Grenade A Ukrainian unit is tinkering with tape, a scale, a 3-D printer and other items to turn a fragmentation grenade into a tank-killer. It’s a steep and risky challenge. https://archive.fo/vyLmM https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/01/06/multimedia/06ukraine-grenade-3-2347/06ukraine-grenade-3-2347-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp I'd love to have that job. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:13:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Unless that was a tank round, I don't get these one-round artillery salvos. Troops in the open, partially obscured by bushes. Battery, At My Command, High Angle, 3 rounds, shell HE, Charge 7 Red Bag, Fuze VT. That should have done it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By Erno86: '"Wagner" fighters blown to pieces by force of the strike" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcjWk2ZLSikUnless that was a tank round, I don't get these one-round artillery salvos. Troops in the open, partially obscured by bushes. Battery, At My Command, High Angle, 3 rounds, shell HE, Charge 7 Red Bag, Fuze VT. That should have done it. We don't know what happend after the video ended.  And don't forget, the Ukies are low on ammo for some systems. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:14:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: I just noticed this on Google maps. When you hover your mouse over a place, it tells you what the place is, like 'Makiivka, Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine.' 'Taman, Krasnodar Krai, Russia.' But if you do that in Crimea, it only shows the town name, no oblast or country. Google is playing games, denying that Crimea is Ukraine? I wish Elon Musk would buy Google. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:16:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: R0N]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: They may have been, but the people of Ukraine threw the govt out after blatantly fucking them over on the EU trade deal. They had their line in the sand and the balls to back it up. They have way more balls than Americans. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By R0N: So Euromaaiden was the only color revolution the CIA was not involved in? They may have been, but the people of Ukraine threw the govt out after blatantly fucking them over on the EU trade deal. They had their line in the sand and the balls to back it up. They have way more balls than Americans. Not to put too fine point on it, but basically it’s a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, for months any talk of the US being involved was Russian propaganda. Now, it’s the US was involved but the degree was so small it’s immaterial. It’s like arguing about the degree of pregnancy. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: We don't know what happend after the video ended. And don't forget, the Ukies are low on ammo for some systems. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By Erno86: '"Wagner" fighters blown to pieces by force of the strike" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcjWk2ZLSikUnless that was a tank round, I don't get these one-round artillery salvos. Troops in the open, partially obscured by bushes. Battery, At My Command, High Angle, 3 rounds, shell HE, Charge 7 Red Bag, Fuze VT. That should have done it. We don't know what happend after the video ended. And don't forget, the Ukies are low on ammo for some systems. Don't doubt it. Judging by the pictures of randomly pockmarked fields, it would seem as they can't shoot for shit, aren't concerned with achieving the conditions for first-round fire for effect, and generally employ artillery in a harassing role. It's no wonder they're running low. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:17:15 PM EDT
[#18]
"Fierce fighting take place as battle centers on Ukraine's Soledar"  Fierce battle takes place as fighting centres on Ukraine's Soledar |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:17:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryThat first shell on target thing. They never had a chance. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:20:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Russian sources.
Still concerned. PMC "Wagner" actually established control over Soledar by closing the boiler on the western outskirts of the city. According to my information, most of the units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine withdrew from the center today at about 16:00. Wagner carried out sweeps of entrances and basements, suppressing focal points of resistance. Checks were carried out on the streets of Karpinsky, Parkovaya, Mayakovsky. The Armed Forces of Ukraine withdrew in the direction of the station Sol and Blagodatnoe. @sashakots https://t.me/sashakots/37981 ⚡️Urgent⚡️Wagner PMCs took the main height in Soledar⚡️ According to the @wargonzo project's operational data, the Wagner Group closed the boiler in the area of the Soledar outpatient clinic, taking control of the city council, as well as Yurchina Gora - the most important dominant height in Soledar. From it, the part of the city still under the control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, where scattered units of neo-Nazis, in particular, the 46th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, retreated, is excellent. Meanwhile, it is too early to talk about the full control of the city. Fierce fighting in the center of Soledar and on the outskirts continues, in particular, near the railway station "Sol" and in the direction of Krasnopolye. @wargonzo *our project is funded by subscribers, help card 4279 3806 9842 9521 https://t.me/wargonzo/10268 According to some reports, up to 300-400 enemy soldiers and officers could remain in the urban areas of Soledar, who did not have time to withdraw. https://t.me/militarymaps/31458 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:21:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: That first shell on target thing. They never had a chance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: That first shell on target thing. They never had a chance. That probably wasn't the first shell. They were likely adjusting fire for a while before they finally got a hit. |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:21:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Yes. Excellent points. Wars are won by logistics and arty (precision MLRS now days) but trenches are won by lunatics with grenades. And someone always has to take the trenches. Either we perfected the grenade tech in the 70's or just let it stagnate as a tool. I would think there are some new designs that work better. In my time in the Army, grenade training was never a priority (I was a 12B and 11B and 95B in DS1 but never in combat). It always felt like it was "just for fun" since they would never trust us with live grenades. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Thats one of the other takeaways I've had - Frag Grenades being super important. Numerous videos have shown rifle fights being finished - decisively - only when frag grenades enter the picture. I wonder if this will result in any further study of 'optimal' grenade design? For example, is it better to have a bigger grenade with more bang, or a smaller grenade that can be thrown further / more accurately, and more can be carried? 5-7x rifle mags is pretty standard, but whats the optimal grenade loadout? https://i.imgur.com/ppGQxHF.jpg Yes. Excellent points. Wars are won by logistics and arty (precision MLRS now days) but trenches are won by lunatics with grenades. And someone always has to take the trenches. Either we perfected the grenade tech in the 70's or just let it stagnate as a tool. I would think there are some new designs that work better. In my time in the Army, grenade training was never a priority (I was a 12B and 11B and 95B in DS1 but never in combat). It always felt like it was "just for fun" since they would never trust us with live grenades. Thats a bummer, I'd be pissed if I joined up and didn't get to throw a few live grenades. Of course, pulling the pin and throwing a grenade has been near the top of my Bucket List since I was 5 years old, after spending a summer throwing those Grenade Water Balloons.    |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:27:29 PM EDT
[#23]
"Why You Can't Mess With The Bradley Fighting Vehicle"  Failed To Load Title |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:27:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: China is officially distancing itself from Russia, and calling Ukraine to win the war; https://www.ft.com/content/e592033b-9e34-4e3d-ae53-17fa34c16009 As it seeks to repair ties with European powers, Beijing is insisting that its European counterparts agree to repeat a “no decoupling” mantra — marking a clear difference with Washington, which is seeking to limit US commercial ties with China in certain areas, particularly with regard to sensitive technologies. Example 1,001 that China fears Economic Decoupling far more than US military buildup, and that Decoupling should be the #1 priority for containing China. Having Iphones made in India and Toys made Thailand would be worth 100 B21's... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:35:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: You almost sound like you believe people in power have some kind of morality that motivates them. It's a flaw. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:35:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: In a Ukraine Workshop, the Quest to Build the Perfect Grenade A Ukrainian unit is tinkering with tape, a scale, a 3-D printer and other items to turn a fragmentation grenade into a tank-killer. It’s a steep and risky challenge. https://archive.fo/vyLmM https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/01/06/multimedia/06ukraine-grenade-3-2347/06ukraine-grenade-3-2347-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp It’s crazy seeing their work environments and if you’ve ever seen one of ours(ever have to write or update signatures on an SOP?)-you instantly recognize why they’re agile. Sure, there’s a cost. The safest/securist X is one that doesn’t work! It’s a balance, I knowww. |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:37:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: It's cool, but I was hoping for a single grenade with a dial a yield knob on it.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By uxb: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: For example, is it better to have a bigger grenade with more bang, or a smaller grenade that can be thrown further / more accurately, and more can be carried? https://i.imgur.com/ppGQxHF.jpg Get both https://www.nammo.com/product/our-products/grenades-warheads-energetics/scalable-offensive-hand-grenade/ It's cool, but I was hoping for a single grenade with a dial a yield knob on it. Closest is the very cool and nasty German DM51. https://weaponsystems.net/system/689-DM51 The fragmentation jacket (a plastic body suspending 6,500 small BB's) is removable. This allows the grenade to be used either as wicked frag grenade, or by removing the frag jacket, as a close quarters concussion grenade.    Unclear, but it may be possible to connect 2x HE cores to create 1x super powered concussion grenade / small demo charge. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:39:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: That probably wasn't the first shell. They were likely adjusting fire for a while before they finally got a hit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By jungatheart: That first shell on target thing. They never had a chance. That probably wasn't the first shell. They were likely adjusting fire for a while before they finally got a hit. Depending on the system, with the western arties they can achieve first shell hits. Caesar, PzH2000 and Krab are quite accurate. Saw some uncut videos from a guy who was there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:43:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I attributed the sentiment to Kennedy in error. Maybe Eisenhower? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I attributed the sentiment to Kennedy in error. Maybe Eisenhower? Not unreasonable. His inaugural address was shot-through about strength against tyranny and a mutual fight. Most relevant part did have a well-repeated line (highlighted): Realizing that common sense and common decency alike dictate the futility of appeasement, we shall never try to placate an aggressor by the false and wicked bargain of trading honor for security. Americans, indeed, all free men, remember that in the final choice a soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as a prisoner's chains. 3. Knowing that only a United States that is strong and immensely productive can help defend freedom in our world, we view our Nation's strength and security as a trust upon which rests the hope of free men everywhere. It is the firm duty of each of our free citizens and of every free citizen everywhere to place the cause of his country before the comfort, the convenience of himself. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:45:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Closest is the very cool and nasty German DM51. https://weaponsystems.net/system/689-DM51 The fragmentation jacket (a plastic body suspending 6,500 small BB's) is removable. This allows the grenade to be used either as wicked frag grenade, or by removing the frag jacket, as a close quarters concussion grenade. https://photo.weaponsystems.net/image/s-carousel/n-iw_gren_dm51_p01.jpg/--/img/ws/iw_gren_dm51_p01.jpg https://photo.weaponsystems.net/image/s-carousel/n-iw_gren_dm51_p03.jpg/--/img/ws/iw_gren_dm51_p03.jpg https://photo.weaponsystems.net/image/s-carousel/n-iw_gren_dm51_p02.jpg/--/img/ws/iw_gren_dm51_p02.jpg Unclear, but it may be possible to connect 2x HE cores to create 1x super powered concussion grenade / small demo charge. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By uxb: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: For example, is it better to have a bigger grenade with more bang, or a smaller grenade that can be thrown further / more accurately, and more can be carried? https://i.imgur.com/ppGQxHF.jpg Get both https://www.nammo.com/product/our-products/grenades-warheads-energetics/scalable-offensive-hand-grenade/ It's cool, but I was hoping for a single grenade with a dial a yield knob on it. Closest is the very cool and nasty German DM51. https://weaponsystems.net/system/689-DM51 The fragmentation jacket (a plastic body suspending 6,500 small BB's) is removable. This allows the grenade to be used either as wicked frag grenade, or by removing the frag jacket, as a close quarters concussion grenade. https://photo.weaponsystems.net/image/s-carousel/n-iw_gren_dm51_p01.jpg/--/img/ws/iw_gren_dm51_p01.jpg https://photo.weaponsystems.net/image/s-carousel/n-iw_gren_dm51_p03.jpg/--/img/ws/iw_gren_dm51_p03.jpg https://photo.weaponsystems.net/image/s-carousel/n-iw_gren_dm51_p02.jpg/--/img/ws/iw_gren_dm51_p02.jpg Unclear, but it may be possible to connect 2x HE cores to create 1x super powered concussion grenade / small demo charge. We have those as well. Theoretically, you could connect a whole bunch of them to make a Bangalore Torpedo. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:46:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Not to put too fine point on it, but basically it’s a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, for months any talk of the US being involved was Russian propaganda. Now, it’s the US was involved but the degree was so small it’s immaterial. It’s like arguing about the degree of pregnancy. Please cite one factual, credible source that the US organized the Maidan uprising. Really want to know. |
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:50:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Built on the gold of dead jews and the biggest money laundering corp. in the history of man.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Nothing owned by the Swiss was allowed to be sold. Because Ukraine is a civil war bullshit. I’m sure the banking industry has nothing to do with it. Built on the gold of dead jews and the biggest money laundering corp. in the history of man. That said, they make a hell of a pocket knife. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:51:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Please cite one factual, credible source that the US organized the Maidan uprising. Really want to know. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By R0N: Not to put too fine point on it, but basically it’s a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, for months any talk of the US being involved was Russian propaganda. Now, it’s the US was involved but the degree was so small it’s immaterial. It’s like arguing about the degree of pregnancy. Please cite one factual, credible source that the US organized the Maidan uprising. Really want to know. So you want to argue over the degree? Fine the US was only a little bit pregnant |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:52:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Not to put too fine point on it, but basically it’s a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, for months any talk of the US being involved was Russian propaganda. Now, it’s the US was involved but the degree was so small it’s immaterial. It’s like arguing about the degree of pregnancy. Speaking of a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, I'm not sure if you are deliberately conflating things or not but no one knowledgeable ever said no one in the US encouraged the Ukes to get rid Russian influence and corruption. What people correctly said, as far as we all know , is that the Maidan events were not orchestrated by the US like the Russians claimed. SO.. it's right to say the US encouraged the actions but did not orchestrate them. It is not right to say the US ran or orchestrated them, that is indeed Russian propaganda. I hope you actually being sincere in confusing the points and not being a snarky jerk off. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:56:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Depending on the system, with the western arties they can achieve first shell hits. Caesar, PzH2000 and Krab are quite accurate. Saw some uncut videos from a guy who was there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By jungatheart: That first shell on target thing. They never had a chance. That probably wasn't the first shell. They were likely adjusting fire for a while before they finally got a hit. Depending on the system, with the western arties they can achieve first shell hits. Caesar, PzH2000 and Krab are quite accurate. Saw some uncut videos from a guy who was there. Even a shitty D30 can achieve first-round-fire-for-effect if the five elements of accurate predicted fire are achieved - accurate target location and size, firing unit location, weapon and ammunition information, met information, and computational procedures. Barring that, capable observer/FDO teams can FFE after one or two adjusting rounds, giving enemy forces minimal time to find cover. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 4:57:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blueballs: Speaking of a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, I'm not sure if you are deliberately conflating things or not but no one knowledgeable ever said no one in the US encouraged the Ukes to get rid Russian influence and corruption. What people correctly said, as far as we all know , is that the Maidan events were not orchestrated by the US like the Russians claimed. SO.. it's right to say the US encouraged the actions but did not orchestrate them. It is not right to say the US ran or orchestrated them, that is indeed Russian propaganda. I hope you actually being sincere in confusing the points and not being a snarky jerk off. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blueballs: Originally Posted By R0N: Not to put too fine point on it, but basically it’s a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, for months any talk of the US being involved was Russian propaganda. Now, it’s the US was involved but the degree was so small it’s immaterial. It’s like arguing about the degree of pregnancy. Speaking of a Roshak test for intellectual honesty, I'm not sure if you are deliberately conflating things or not but no one knowledgeable ever said no one in the US encouraged the Ukes to get rid Russian influence and corruption. What people correctly said, as far as we all know , is that the Maidan events were not orchestrated by the US like the Russians claimed. SO.. it's right to say the US encouraged the actions but did not orchestrate them. It is not right to say the US ran or orchestrated them, that is indeed Russian propaganda. I hope you actually being sincere in confusing the points and not being a snarky jerk off. It’s more believable that the US intelligence community was caught with its pants down by maidan. The flip from signing up with EU to suddenly signing up with Russia wasn’t expected, which is why it drew such a sharp Ukrainian response. If there is one thing our intelligence community has done consistently it’s sleeping on watch. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:01:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BustinCaps: It’s more believable that the US intelligence community was caught with its pants down by maidan. The flip from signing up with EU to suddenly signing up with Russia wasn’t expected, which is why it drew such a sharp Ukrainian response. If there is one thing our intelligence community has done consistently it’s sleeping on watch. Of the accounts I have heard that is the consensus. It's pretty sad to see Ron strut around talking about Roshak tests in the same sentence he deliberately conflates basic facts into a false narrative. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:09:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Don't doubt it. Judging by the pictures of randomly pockmarked fields, it would seem as they can't shoot for shit, aren't concerned with achieving the conditions for first-round fire for effect, and generally employ artillery in a harassing role. It's no wonder they're running low. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By Erno86: '"Wagner" fighters blown to pieces by force of the strike" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcjWk2ZLSikUnless that was a tank round, I don't get these one-round artillery salvos. Troops in the open, partially obscured by bushes. Battery, At My Command, High Angle, 3 rounds, shell HE, Charge 7 Red Bag, Fuze VT. That should have done it. We don't know what happend after the video ended. And don't forget, the Ukies are low on ammo for some systems. Don't doubt it. Judging by the pictures of randomly pockmarked fields, it would seem as they can't shoot for shit, aren't concerned with achieving the conditions for first-round fire for effect, and generally employ artillery in a harassing role. It's no wonder they're running low. How can you determine those are Ukrainian vs Russian impact craters? |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:10:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Click To View Spoiler That is brutal and gruesome. But likely not far from the truth - especially for the Mobiks. I bet it is even worse for the worthless DPR “separatists.” RE treatment of the wounded: - time and again we have seen Russians leave their wounded comrades behind and flee. Not so stronk after all. My guess is huge numbers of the wounded seen in drone videos probably bled out alone and abandoned. Russia really needs to lose this war in a big way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:11:42 PM EDT
[#40]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:12:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BustinCaps: It’s more believable that the US intelligence community was caught with its pants down by maidan. The flip from signing up with EU to suddenly signing up with Russia wasn’t expected, which is why it drew such a sharp Ukrainian response. If there is one thing our intelligence community has done consistently it’s sleeping on watch. More like sleeping with politicians. Is there anything politics doesn't fuck up? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:14:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: More like sleeping with politicians. Is there anything politics doesn't fuck up? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By BustinCaps: It’s more believable that the US intelligence community was caught with its pants down by maidan. The flip from signing up with EU to suddenly signing up with Russia wasn’t expected, which is why it drew such a sharp Ukrainian response. If there is one thing our intelligence community has done consistently it’s sleeping on watch. More like sleeping with politicians. Is there anything politics doesn't fuck up? Perhaps. I have no insider knowledge or anything. But if I had to pick between CIA organizing massive protests of steely eyed citizens who faced down rifles with spaghetti strainer helmets, and CIA busy jerking it’s cock in of of Obama’s more glaring foreign policy catastrophes of the age and missing Ukraine, I’m picking the latter. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:16:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#43]
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:17:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Even a shitty D30 can achieve first-round-fire-for-effect if the five elements of accurate predicted fire are achieved - accurate target location and size, firing unit location, weapon and ammunition information, met information, and computational procedures. Barring that, capable observer/FDO teams can FFE after one or two adjusting rounds, giving enemy forces minimal time to find cover. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Squatch: Originally Posted By jungatheart: That first shell on target thing. They never had a chance. That probably wasn't the first shell. They were likely adjusting fire for a while before they finally got a hit. Depending on the system, with the western arties they can achieve first shell hits. Caesar, PzH2000 and Krab are quite accurate. Saw some uncut videos from a guy who was there. Even a shitty D30 can achieve first-round-fire-for-effect if the five elements of accurate predicted fire are achieved - accurate target location and size, firing unit location, weapon and ammunition information, met information, and computational procedures. Barring that, capable observer/FDO teams can FFE after one or two adjusting rounds, giving enemy forces minimal time to find cover. How long the shells are flying? 30 to 50 seconds? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:22:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: So you want to argue over the degree? Fine the US was only a little bit pregnant No, I didn’t say that AT ALL. You are completely misrepresenting what I said. I was asking you to put one single fact behind vague assertions and hand-waving deflections. Instead you respond with mis-direction and avoidance. It grossly degrades the quality of conversation. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:22:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: This was my take. The whole “US backed” was a pretty successful Russian disinfo campaign they started once the shooting started and post-facto. To the degree US “hopes and prayers” are backing, it’s true. But as far as the whole CIA-orchestrated BS, it just didn’t happen. It was very clearly a popular uprising against the corrupt oligarchs and Yanukovych. Yanukovych had suddenly, unexpectedly, and very suspiciously, pivoted away from a widely-popular political and trade agreement w/the EU. This seriously crossed the line in the people’s view and launched the Maidan protests. The US was sitting back and trying to figure out what was going on, not masterminding the revolution. Shortly after the revolution, Russian-backed Burisima started paying the Bidens a lot of money. US support for Ukrainian independence from Moscow and anti-corruption and efforts then disappeared and US policy became one of basic indifference. Linkage? IDK. Fact? Yes. ETA: I know most all regular contributors know this, but there are readers/lurkers and revisiting key topics for them doesn’t hurt. Good of gentlemanf. to recap, I just dogpiled on for depth. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: There wasn’t much us support. A few public speeches and BS but the idea that the US had any involvement in the Maidan in BS. Ukraine was a backwater with few us diplos and even fewer spies. We only stepped with tv takes once Russian SF and proxies starting smoking protestors. Even then it was just words from 8000 miles away. This was my take. The whole “US backed” was a pretty successful Russian disinfo campaign they started once the shooting started and post-facto. To the degree US “hopes and prayers” are backing, it’s true. But as far as the whole CIA-orchestrated BS, it just didn’t happen. It was very clearly a popular uprising against the corrupt oligarchs and Yanukovych. Yanukovych had suddenly, unexpectedly, and very suspiciously, pivoted away from a widely-popular political and trade agreement w/the EU. This seriously crossed the line in the people’s view and launched the Maidan protests. The US was sitting back and trying to figure out what was going on, not masterminding the revolution. Shortly after the revolution, Russian-backed Burisima started paying the Bidens a lot of money. US support for Ukrainian independence from Moscow and anti-corruption and efforts then disappeared and US policy became one of basic indifference. Linkage? IDK. Fact? Yes. ETA: I know most all regular contributors know this, but there are readers/lurkers and revisiting key topics for them doesn’t hurt. Good of gentlemanf. to recap, I just dogpiled on for depth. This cannot be reiterated enough. It IS what happened. We mock the Russians often, but they are extremely talented at deception and mis-information. In the case of Ukraine, they played the situation like a fine violin. They even got Europe to swallow their invasion of Crimea over time, and persuaded the EU that Russia could be a friendly trading partners with Putin. Now most of us see the truth. Time to end Putin’s entire regime. Kinda sad he is going to take to many lives with him, but that’s the price I suppose. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:25:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#47]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:31:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: m35ben]
[#48]
Edit phone still sucks
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:32:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Can anyone speak to how much of this Soledar operation is in keeping with Russian doctrine?
It seems they have done a decent job of the wall of zombies wearing down defenders and most importantly tossing more waves of zombies after success. Eventually defenders need to sleep, rotate, or fail. These 8 man drip attacks followed by more drip attacks and focused shelling of located Ukrainian positions has to be thoroughly exhausting for the defense. At some point they have to be too exhausted to continue, or they have to rotate, at which point another 8 man goon squad is still attacking. It seems like a brutally cynical way to wear down defenses, achieve some kind of success, and prevent one-off mass assault slaughters with rest in between each wave for the defenders. It seems they’ve been tweaking tactics and it is allowing some level of success. Sustainable? Who knows. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/10/2023 5:32:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Squatch: Don't doubt it. Judging by the pictures of randomly pockmarked fields, it would seem as they can't shoot for shit, aren't concerned with achieving the conditions for first-round fire for effect, and generally employ artillery in a harassing role. It's no wonder they're running low. This is a SWAG on my part, but I think the widespread use of commercial drones indicates that they are (relative to the size of the front and the numbers of Russians) short of sensors/systems that would help them target accurately. They have a few dozen(?) AN/TPQ-whatevers that we sent them, presumably a few more ex-Combloc systems (I have never seen reporting about them, the US systems have been mentioned by-name only, which makes total sense to keep either of them out of the spotlight). They have GISArta for coordinating fire missions, but I am still not sure they have enough of the "stuff" needed to work up a target list the way we would hope or expect them to. So it might be wasteful harassing fire, or it might be in response to the waves of "probing" attacks, which is reported to be their tactic to ID Ukrainian lines and high-priority targets. On the other hand, they do seem to be very judicious using Excalibur and GMLRS, so I am not sure what we are really seeing here with their regular shells. 
|
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
