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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:32:11 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amanbearpig: This seems so counter productive to me  .The article I read said norway cops took him into custody and moved him because the situation is "dangerous", but his lawyer said he is being treated as a witness. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:32:31 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: A GB-Poland-Ukraine alliance weakening Germany and a Franco-German dominated EU while Russia is too incapacitated to keep them honest would be absolutely typical. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By Dracster: Poland is going to license-build the K2. The Great Britain-Poland-Ukraine pact that was announced in Feb 2022 just before the invasion could lead to some interesting stuff down the road. Poland building K2s for all the former Pact countries would be a good thumb in the German MIC eye.  British Patriotic Song: Rule, Britannia! |
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USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:32:46 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: They reportedly delayed their own order to fulfill the Polish one. I wonder what the ROKs are going to do with their 1500 K1A1/A2s as they start getting more K2s in their inventory. I bet I know a European country that would love to have some. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
They reportedly delayed their own order to fulfill the Polish one. I wonder what the ROKs are going to do with their 1500 K1A1/A2s as they start getting more K2s in their inventory. I bet I know a European country that would love to have some. They'll be around for another decade or two more. The K1s have 105mm and those are being upgraded. The K1A2/A2 have 120mm and are also being upgraded. I don't see them dumping the K1A2 anytime soon. K2 will probably eventually replace them all but that will take a decade or more. They do have T-80s that they can donate. With them sending supplies to Ukraine as is I doubt Russia will be interested in sending spare parts/ammo. 
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:34:39 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnKTbXtWQAAUoVP?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnK127QXEAIaKEc?format=jpg&name=large |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:35:03 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: North Korea Arming Russia’s Wagner Group in War on Ukraine "Funny" how so many so-called conservative American "patriots" (many on GD) are cheering Russia and Wagner Group on. I guess to them North Korea is also one of the good guys. Yup. And Iran! Always totally good guys right anti-Ukraine "conservatives"... |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:46:08 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54489/hammer_jpg-2682725.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mercersfinest4: Originally Posted By Prime: Oh damn. Please believe me bro.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnKQXVsWQAIm1n3?format=jpg&name=large https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54489/hammer_jpg-2682725.JPG 
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:47:04 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By darkd0r: I can see why the Uranians didn't approve of your great-grandparents. MT, sure, Sodak maybe, but not Nodak.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By darkd0r: Originally Posted By Kagetora: My German ancestors are all from Ukraine.   Down around the Odessa area...the Germans who moved into "South Russia" after Catherine invited them to. The ones the ethnic Ukrainians don't approve of, for good reasons. My great-grandparents, all four of them, came to the US in 1899, 1900, 1901, and 1905...just before the "Glorious Soviet Revolution" fucked everything forever. Settled in North Dakota, continued farming. To this day. There's a reason I'm sending all my spare med gear, PMags, and cash to Ukraine. I want them to win, to push Russia's shit in so far they taste it, to end them as a power. My own country is sending stuff too slow. Hungary, Turkey, and a few others are riding a fence. Germany is, as historically accurate, and embarrassment as usual. At what point are we going to wake up and do the necessary? I can see why the Uranians didn't approve of your great-grandparents. MT, sure, Sodak maybe, but not Nodak. Well, there's a reason my immediate family fled to MT... Originally Posted By tabraha: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: LOL, he has his moments, don't worry about stealing my thunder guys. Brilliant.  |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:47:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#8]
A new summation of GD's favorite "The Left Lens" hosted by some commie shitbird and America hating Americans in the form of Dan Kovalik (never heard of him) and Scott Ritter.
Don't do Commie drugs you might want to watch Lazer Pig's wrapup of the Gonzalo Lira round table instead. Dan Kovalik: - Russia is genuine about peace. - Boris Johnson forced Ukraine not to accept a reasonable peace deal that only required Ukraine to be disarmed and ceade a shit ton of territory. - "I was just in Donets and people are happy the Russian are there".  - People of Donets wanted the Russians there and the Russian Communist party wanted to go in earlier. - Putin is very restrained and "Russia could just take the Donbas like that" but didn't want to because borther Slavs but now forced to act because of cease fire violations. - Russia was also forced to act because Ukraine was massing troops at the border and was scarred Ukraine was going to invade Russia. - Didn't wan to wait for the Nazis to invade but really acted reluctantly. - Russia going slow because they are so carefull and didn't wan to attack Kiev (but could have destroyed it easily, not like evil USA with shock and awe. - West is evil, US is evil and wanted war fighting to the last Ukrainian. - Americans ignorant, people of Donbas/Russia cultured. Scott Ritter: - US promised they wouldn't expand NATO. - All America does is lie. Russia warned US not to let Ukraine in to NATO. - NAZI Coup in Kiev by CIA to carry out genocide on Russians. - NATO wanted a proxy war with Russia. - Russia not violating international law because replublics declared indipendence and entered security agreement with Russia so it's not a civil war[*] - Threat from Ukraine was so imminent that Russia had to invade. - Russia has done nothing but follow international law. - NATO just wanted to attack Russia - REEE Yogoslavia. - There is no chance in hell that Russia will stop uless there is unconditional surrender by NATO and Ukraine - NATO is deafeated wil dictate terms so the Russian sphere of of influence is protected. - Russia can easily take on US armed forces in Europe, they will just kill them. The USA airforce sucks and the Russia's most lethal air defnce system in history will shoot them all down. - America would lose it's airforce on day because Russia stronk. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 7:54:08 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Not just Latvia - Estonia ordered some of the Russian mission out of the country, so Russia recalled their ambassador. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64372508 |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:00:40 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Me. They want to get me too. So far I am worth an Iskandar missile. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Ben? Given their scarcity these days, are you sure you haven't been relegated to "Wagnerite with a rusty butter knife"?
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:00:43 PM EST
[#11]
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:01:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#12]
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:02:13 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: What they’re saying is State is going round and offering countries Abrams to replace any Leopards they donate to Ukraine. Once the switch is made they won’t likely want to switch back to German tanks again so are lost customers for Germany. And the Poles/ROK haven’t even gotten into the game yet. It’s a disaster for the German MiC. All of this is the natural outcome of German political cuckery and some people in Germany have figured it out, is all. OK, thanks. That I understand. This conflict had the chance to save German MIC and integrity but looks like it just put another nail in the coffin. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:04:15 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Given their scarcity these days, are you sure you haven't been relegated to "Wagnerite with a rusty butter knife"? |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:06:20 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: In the short term, a K2-derivative/M1 derivative mix is probably good enough, with a few low-number specialty tanks for niche requirements. For the next development cycle, you are probably spot-on, except that one would probably want to invite the Koreans, Aussies, Japanese, and Israelis to come play, and you may want to include a 30-something ton air-droppable design with limited amphib capability in the design "family" as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: You guys are right. NATO does need a F-35 of the tank world. The m1a2  For some partners it may make sense to get a light weight diesel. Which are the various K2 variants, which have a lot of commonality (to include design history) with the M1-series. The Brits continue to rock the Challenger because, well...they're the Brits and have always had major systems they've fielded that were different, and the Challenger has both an impressive combat record and a history of integrating well with M1-equipped formations. Kind of sucks to be a salesman/saleswoman for the German MIC right now, but... NATO should collaborate on two tanks, a medium and a heavy. The medium needs to be a 120mm armed diesel powered, composite rubber tracked beast under 50 tonnes with all the armor added. Operational costs would be lowered in this way and you could raid the IFV parts bins for at that weight. The heavy, a 70 tonne beast for use in breakthroughs. Probably just for US and UK. 130mm gun, probably want to use a turbine to save space for extra ammo. An electric transmission and some on board energy storage would let you underside the turbine and run it at constant output for best economy and longevity while using electrical power to double horsepower in a pinch. In the short term, a K2-derivative/M1 derivative mix is probably good enough, with a few low-number specialty tanks for niche requirements. For the next development cycle, you are probably spot-on, except that one would probably want to invite the Koreans, Aussies, Japanese, and Israelis to come play, and you may want to include a 30-something ton air-droppable design with limited amphib capability in the design "family" as well. For air ops, a CVRT with a 50mm Bushmaster. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:08:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2A373]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Looks stealthy! Seems odd that journalist calls it a “fighter jet” when in reality it looks much more like a stealthy light bomber. Also seems reminiscent of the F-117, though in UAV form. My guess is the Russians are not going to enjoy the beta-testing likely to soon happen in Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: It would be great to test in Ukraine.
Looks stealthy! Seems odd that journalist calls it a “fighter jet” when in reality it looks much more like a stealthy light bomber. Also seems reminiscent of the F-117, though in UAV form. My guess is the Russians are not going to enjoy the beta-testing likely to soon happen in Ukraine. The reporter calling it fighter is not odd at all if you take the time to review Baykar's website. https://baykartech.com/en/bayraktar-kizilelma-fighter-uav/ |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:09:38 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: They'll be around for another decade or two more. The K1s have 105mm and those are being upgraded. The K1A2/A2 have 120mm and are also being upgraded. I don't see them dumping the K1A2 anytime soon. K2 will probably eventually replace them all but that will take a decade or more. They do have T-80s that they can donate. With them sending supplies to Ukraine as is I doubt Russia will be interested in sending spare parts/ammo. https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/30167795_1827246607334076_9043181173641815035_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=XmJ3Mk8ciRUAX8m9dKB&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfDVTxfvTvN6BLbUJ4yMe3AbT0Y9VMjaXq4K6CcB-AYRTQ&oe=63F6A440 |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:11:16 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: This is the argument for Leopard over Abrams, summarized. Every German on Twitter is well aware of this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/379BE6A8-0E11-490B-95E9-D63310905C83_jpe-2682746.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By 2A373: The claims made here that Leopards are better mx wise is something that I'd love to see some facts that back up the claim. I have a hard time believing the Germans somehow managed to design and build something that isn't overly complicated and hard to maintain. This is the argument for Leopard over Abrams, summarized. Every German on Twitter is well aware of this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/379BE6A8-0E11-490B-95E9-D63310905C83_jpe-2682746.JPG  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:15:00 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Its possible. It might work since the Wagner dude would blend in with the crazy homeless dudes here. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Given their scarcity these days, are you sure you haven't been relegated to "Wagnerite with a rusty butter knife"? 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:28:40 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnLDqsuXwBQW8ZB?format=jpg&name=small How many mines can that contraption blow up before it has to be replace? How many spare sets of rollers come with that? Just curious. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:32:13 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Some footage from failed Russian advances recently. Adam tactical group footage. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10jnl9k/compilation_of_artillery_strikes_against_russian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb In that Adam Tactical footage, at -2:30, right after the drone drop impact, it looks like a dude takes 3-4 hits from small arms fire. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:32:42 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: Well, there's a reason my immediate family fled to MT... Brilliant. They wanted to raise rabbits with a round american woman? |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:32:43 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: How many mines can that contraption blow up before it has to be replace? How many spare sets of rollers come with that? Just curious. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnLDqsuXwBQW8ZB?format=jpg&name=small How many mines can that contraption blow up before it has to be replace? How many spare sets of rollers come with that? Just curious. Probably one mine per roller and it disintegrates. By the way, it isnt a plow; Im not sure you can plow mines with a wheeled vehicle. Silly media. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:45:28 PM EST
[#24]
More drone/drop/roll footage. May be a repeat, who knows with this awful shit
None of these guys seem to have any weapons? |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:53:21 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By mercersfinest4: Originally Posted By Prime: Oh damn. Please believe me bro.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnKQXVsWQAIm1n3?format=jpg&name=large https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54489/hammer_jpg-2682725.JPG Glad someone liked it! |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:53:57 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: If I remember right, at the start of the war Russia attacked Ukraine's rail system to the point that Ukraine was pressing steam engines back into service. That could well be a tell as to what Russia thinks is a high value target on their side... The steam engines were used when the electrical grid was damaged by missile attacks on the cities and their power plants a few months ago.. I do agree that the soviet /russian railways are ripe for the picking in my opinion |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:54:27 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Me. They want to get me too. So far I am worth an Iskandar missile. I feel left out. Motivation to do more 
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:55:20 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: How many mines can that contraption blow up before it has to be replace? How many spare sets of rollers come with that? Just curious. Actually, the navy has a formula that defines that. Old navy saying: Every ship can be used as a minesweeper. Once. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:57:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#29]
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/rheinmetall-could-deliver-139-leopard-tanks-ukraine-rnd-2023-01-23/
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Posted: 1/23/2023 8:59:20 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MeestaSparkle: In that Adam Tactical footage, at -2:30, right after the drone drop impact, it looks like a dude takes 3-4 hits from small arms fire. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MeestaSparkle: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Some footage from failed Russian advances recently. Adam tactical group footage. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10jnl9k/compilation_of_artillery_strikes_against_russian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb In that Adam Tactical footage, at -2:30, right after the drone drop impact, it looks like a dude takes 3-4 hits from small arms fire. You mean 1:30 in the trench? Looks like his own grenades go off in his chest rig as secondaries. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:09:56 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: You mean 1:30 in the trench? Looks like his own grenades go off in his chest rig as secondaries. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By MeestaSparkle: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Some footage from failed Russian advances recently. Adam tactical group footage. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/10jnl9k/compilation_of_artillery_strikes_against_russian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb In that Adam Tactical footage, at -2:30, right after the drone drop impact, it looks like a dude takes 3-4 hits from small arms fire. You mean 1:30 in the trench? Looks like his own grenades go off in his chest rig as secondaries. For some reason these reddit videos always count down for me, apparently not for everyone. I meant “minus 2:30”. Thanks for provided the normal time stamp. I suppose secondaries would be possible, but the damage seemed smaller and the delay after the explosion just long enough afterward that I figured bullets. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:13:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#32]
At 00-00 01/24/2023, 5 missile attacks by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine. Air defense forces shot down 4 missile targets. UAV attacks outside military conflict zones 15. Air defense forces shot down 11 targets. Artillery and mortar shelling of border areas 36
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:14:39 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rgkeller: Why no heavy use of Claymores by the Ukranians defending Bahkmut? They do but also areas get shelled a lot. They are in use. We only get videos from small fraction of forces. Claymore hit by rpg? Every forward position has mines or something if it’s on contact line in that area. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:21:02 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: A new summation of GD's favorite "The Left Lens" hosted by some commie shitbird and America hating Americans in the form of Dan Kovalik (never heard of him) and Scott Ritter. Don't do Commie drugs you might want to watch Lazer Pig's wrapup of the Gonzalo Lira round table instead. Dan Kovalik: - Russia is genuine about peace. - Boris Johnson forced Ukraine not to accept a reasonable peace deal that only required Ukraine to be disarmed and ceade a shit ton of territory. - "I was just in Donets and people are happy the Russian are there". - People of Donets wanted the Russians there and the Russian Communist party wanted to go in earlier. - Putin is very restrained and "Russia could just take the Donbas like that" but didn't want to because borther Slavs but now forced to act because of cease fire violations. - Russia was also forced to act because Ukraine was massing troops at the border and was scarred Ukraine was going to invade Russia. - Didn't wan to wait for the Nazis to invade but really acted reluctantly. - Russia going slow because they are so carefull and didn't wan to attack Kiev (but could have destroyed it easily, not like evil USA with shock and awe. - West is evil, US is evil and wanted war fighting to the last Ukrainian. - Americans ignorant, people of Donbas/Russia cultured. Scott Ritter: - US promised they wouldn't expand NATO. - All America does is lie. Russia warned US not to let Ukraine in to NATO. - NAZI Coup in Kiev by CIA to carry out genocide on Russians. - NATO wanted a proxy war with Russia. - Russia not violating international law because replublics declared indipendence and entered security agreement with Russia so it's not a civil war[*] - Threat from Ukraine was so imminent that Russia had to invade. - Russia has done nothing but follow international law. - NATO just wanted to attack Russia - REEE Yogoslavia. - There is no chance in hell that Russia will stop uless there is unconditional surrender by NATO and Ukraine - NATO is deafeated wil dictate terms so the Russian sphere of of influence is protected. - Russia can easily take on US armed forces in Europe, they will just kill them. The USA airforce sucks and the Russia's most lethal air defnce system in history will shoot them all down. - America would lose it's airforce on day because Russia stronk. It’s like a farside realpolitik military comic dose. They don’t disappoint. I just can’t get the people here that believe it. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:27:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#35]
Urgent - Leopards have already been seen in Ukraine in Nikolaev While the public is concerned about the delicate issue for Germany about the supply of Leopard 2 tanks to the Ukrainian State, operational sources of the @wargonzo project report that at least 2 units of German equipment were seen in Nikolaev. Tractors with tanks were supposedly heading for the territory of the Nikolaev Armored Plant. The analytical department of the @wargonzo project suggests that the increased activity of the European media on the topic of the supply of German tanks is caused by an attempt to drag out time to amend the Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz arms law, which does not allow third countries to transfer or sell German weapons without Germany's permission. However, in reality, the equipment has already been delivered to Ukraine and the matter rests solely on the bureaucracy. @wargonzo https://t.me/wargonzo/10479 |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:38:26 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/rheinmetall-could-deliver-139-leopard-tanks-ukraine-rnd-2023-01-23/
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/82C11008-42A0-4F3F-9916-8968EFF49287-2683219.jpg |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:45:23 PM EST
[#37]
RU TG
The offensive on the Zaporizhia sector. It is rather strange that these actions are called offensive. Considering the number of the group in the direction from Vuhledar to the Dnieper, offensive operations in three narrow areas practically do not bring results. The total grouping there is over 100 thousand people, including a large amount of equipment. In order to ensure continuity, offensive actions slightly delay the techniques from us as well. It's just a false start. We expect a significant offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine there. Therefore, to give greater significance, This was called the offensive. https://t.me/mototroopers_205/849 Also, reports about the capture of Kamensky are not particularly credible. Pretty difficult terrain. Forcing a bridge with a swoop does not mean taking control. Given that the right flank has the intersection of two rivers. I do not want to escalate, but at best there will be no more news from there. https://t.me/mototroopers_205/850 Near Bakhmut and Soledar the offensive stopped. The potential has just not run out. Rested on the heights. The tactics are changing. https://t.me/mototroopers_205/857 |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 9:47:08 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: It’s like a farside realpolitik military comic dose. They don’t disappoint. I just can’t get the people here that believe it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Originally Posted By iggy1337: A new summation of GD's favorite "The Left Lens" hosted by some commie shitbird and America hating Americans in the form of Dan Kovalik (never heard of him) and Scott Ritter. Don't do Commie drugs you might want to watch Lazer Pig's wrapup of the Gonzalo Lira round table instead. Dan Kovalik: - Russia is genuine about peace. - Boris Johnson forced Ukraine not to accept a reasonable peace deal that only required Ukraine to be disarmed and ceade a shit ton of territory. - "I was just in Donets and people are happy the Russian are there". - People of Donets wanted the Russians there and the Russian Communist party wanted to go in earlier. - Putin is very restrained and "Russia could just take the Donbas like that" but didn't want to because borther Slavs but now forced to act because of cease fire violations. - Russia was also forced to act because Ukraine was massing troops at the border and was scarred Ukraine was going to invade Russia. - Didn't wan to wait for the Nazis to invade but really acted reluctantly. - Russia going slow because they are so carefull and didn't wan to attack Kiev (but could have destroyed it easily, not like evil USA with shock and awe. - West is evil, US is evil and wanted war fighting to the last Ukrainian. - Americans ignorant, people of Donbas/Russia cultured. Scott Ritter: - US promised they wouldn't expand NATO. - All America does is lie. Russia warned US not to let Ukraine in to NATO. - NAZI Coup in Kiev by CIA to carry out genocide on Russians. - NATO wanted a proxy war with Russia. - Russia not violating international law because replublics declared indipendence and entered security agreement with Russia so it's not a civil war[*] - Threat from Ukraine was so imminent that Russia had to invade. - Russia has done nothing but follow international law. - NATO just wanted to attack Russia - REEE Yogoslavia. - There is no chance in hell that Russia will stop uless there is unconditional surrender by NATO and Ukraine - NATO is deafeated wil dictate terms so the Russian sphere of of influence is protected. - Russia can easily take on US armed forces in Europe, they will just kill them. The USA airforce sucks and the Russia's most lethal air defnce system in history will shoot them all down. - America would lose it's airforce on day because Russia stronk. It’s like a farside realpolitik military comic dose. They don’t disappoint. I just can’t get the people here that believe it. I just seem to be a moth atracted to a particually retarded flame  I myself know that their points about international law are so insane I can't even fathom how they dreamed them up. As for Russia and international law and and human right conventions -> They can't be trusted. They tryed to make a ECHR case about Ukrainian opression in the Russian occupied Donbass BUT they deliberately started the case without what the US would call standing (by using a completly wrong procedure). They clearly did this becuase a actual case would involve rules of evidence, discovery ect. All they wanted to do is cry about how every body hates Russia while they (after the dismissle) never bothered to start the case correctly. May the fuck be apon those bullshit artists and anybody who falls for their shit. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 10:40:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: Charging_Handle]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnLDqsuXwBQW8ZB?format=jpg&name=small I am bit curious as to why we would provide them with two completely different types of IFV/AFV instead of just providing them one or the other to simplify training/logistics. Obviously we have no shortage of either vehicle type. And I am sure whoever put this aid package together likely asked the same question at some point during the process. So I can only surmise that someone felt the wheeled Stryker vehicle offered a capability (speed, stealth, more troops carried, mine protection?) that the tracked Bradley did not offer, though the Bradley possesses superior firepower and frontal armor protection. Now that I think about it, I suppose it is even possible that both of these vehicles could end up in the same brigades. Most Ukrainian brigades have an extra light infantry battalion attached to them. These battalions were initially TDF that we later incorporated into their regular formations. The plan might be to give those battalions the Stryker for mobility and protection. It would certainly be a step up from pick-ups, vans and passenger cars. Whatever the case, I am just happy we are sending them in decent quantities. And I hope we send even more. I am sure the Ukrainians will figure out the best ways to employ them to meet their needs. Their mechanized forces have long used both BMP (tracked) and BTR (wheeled) vehicles, so they have experience operating mixed types of armored vehicles. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 10:41:17 PM EST
[#40]
 Ukraine updates: Poland could send tanks without approval | DW News |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 10:45:46 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: All the above were sevrodonetsk and lysichansk. I gave a pretty descriptive reason for that place falling back in July or august. Sorry, too tired to rehash it again. Ukraine and a lack of gear/comms fog of war rotations and Khady flanking write place right time. Also a lot or artillery Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By vahog: Originally Posted By Capta: ... Today’s ISW report suggests Prigozhin/Wagner are waning after failing to take Bakhmut: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-22-2023 Thanks. I had started skipping most ISW reports because they all seemed to be reading the same, but this was a really interesting evaluation of Wagner / MOD faceoff. Some of us had mentioned this possibility a few days ago: "Putin likely turned to Prigozhin’s irregular forces to get through the period following the Russian conventional military’s culmination after the reckless and costly push to seize Severodonetsk and Lysychansk." I don't think that's accurate. I don't think actual VDV, Naval infantry, and Spetsnaz units got chewed up in Severodonetsk. Everything I've seen indicates that most of the forces the Russians used to take Severodonetsk were D/LPR, Kadyrovites, and other Rosgvardia units. There were certainly other Russian forces involved, but the aforementioned units seem to have taken the brunt of the casualties, and the Russians (especially in the case of L/DPR units) view those units as being expendable. The same is true of the Ukrainians; they didn't commit many of their better units there and instead heavily utilized TDF, National Guard, and some foreign legion elements to defend the city. Overall, Severodonetsk was a big shitshow on both sides, and I really hope the Ukrainians have come away with the right takeaways. Those being that holding ground at all costs isn't a good idea (especially in a bad position like Severodonetsk), and that it's not helpful to hype up operationally/strategically unimportant cities as being important. The Ukrainians defended Severodonetsk way too long, which prevented them from being able to effectively utilize the high ground that Lysychansk provided, and Zelensky hyped up Severodonetsk as being the battle that would decide the fate of the Donbas, which didn't look good at all when it fell a few weeks later. The cynical side of me says that they're repeating a lot of these mistakes in the Bakhmut axis. All the above were sevrodonetsk and lysichansk. I gave a pretty descriptive reason for that place falling back in July or august. Sorry, too tired to rehash it again. Ukraine and a lack of gear/comms fog of war rotations and Khady flanking write place right time. Also a lot or artillery I recall, and you gave me personally a good explanation of the Severodonetsk/Lysychansk battles a few weeks ago. There might not be a ton of overlap between them and the Bakhmut axis, but I'm more so trying to drive home the point that the Ukrainians shouldn't be unwilling to retreat a bit and that they shouldn't let units get torn up in order to hold ground that's largely irrelevant from a strategic/operational point of view. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 10:46:39 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Me. They want to get me too. So far I am worth an Iskandar missile. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Ben? They want your truck for a newly mobilized brigade so they have something to carry the only rifle they've got. 
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Posted: 1/23/2023 10:51:43 PM EST
[#43]
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Posted: 1/23/2023 10:57:48 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: I believe every inch of Ukrainian soil is worth it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By Prime:
Russian POV
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnKioBAXEAADy5y?format=jpg&name=large I understand Bakhmut is a great killing field for russian soldiers and equipment. And I understand it is terrible thorn in the side for russian military pride. But I hope Ukraine hasn't decided this is a destroyed piece of dirt worth dying for. I believe every inch of Ukrainian soil is worth it. This is the mentality that I really, really hope Ukraine doesn't subscribe to. Holding disadvantageous ground and letting good units get chewed up under the guise of "every inch of Ukrainian soil is worth it" isn't a winning strategy. Ukraine shouldn't be eager to throw its better units into meat grinders for ground that largely doesn't matter and can likely be retaken at a later date (as the Kharkiv counter offensive demonstrated). Over the long term, that'll lead to a serious decline in the quality of the Ukrainian military with little to show for it, because lots of their experienced troops will have become casualties in the process of defending irrelevant ground and won't be around to train up/lead the new soldiers Ukraine has brought into the fold since the invasion. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:00:15 PM EST
[#45]
 Germany won’t block Poland sending tanks to Ukraine says country’s foreign minister – BBC News |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:00:52 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnL5YBLWIAEIOFZ?format=jpg&name=large Where do they come up with this nonsense? |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:02:23 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Where do they come up with this nonsense? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By ludder093: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnL5YBLWIAEIOFZ?format=jpg&name=large Where do they come up with this nonsense? I mean, they aren’t going to just say “I’m the bad guy and don’t really have a reason for killing my neighbor” are they? |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:06:59 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: This is the mentality that I really, really hope Ukraine doesn't subscribe to. Holding disadvantageous ground and letting good units get chewed up under the guise of "every inch of Ukrainian soil is worth it" isn't a winning strategy. Ukraine shouldn't be eager to throw its better units into meat grinders for ground that largely doesn't matter and can likely be retaken at a later date (as the Kharkiv counter offensive demonstrated). Over the long term, that'll lead to a serious decline in the quality of the Ukrainian military with little to show for it, because lots of their experienced troops will have become casualties in the process of defending irrelevant ground and won't be around to train up/lead the new soldiers Ukraine has brought into the fold since the invasion. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By Prime:
Russian POV
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnKioBAXEAADy5y?format=jpg&name=large I understand Bakhmut is a great killing field for russian soldiers and equipment. And I understand it is terrible thorn in the side for russian military pride. But I hope Ukraine hasn't decided this is a destroyed piece of dirt worth dying for. I believe every inch of Ukrainian soil is worth it. This is the mentality that I really, really hope Ukraine doesn't subscribe to. Holding disadvantageous ground and letting good units get chewed up under the guise of "every inch of Ukrainian soil is worth it" isn't a winning strategy. Ukraine shouldn't be eager to throw its better units into meat grinders for ground that largely doesn't matter and can likely be retaken at a later date (as the Kharkiv counter offensive demonstrated). Over the long term, that'll lead to a serious decline in the quality of the Ukrainian military with little to show for it, because lots of their experienced troops will have become casualties in the process of defending irrelevant ground and won't be around to train up/lead the new soldiers Ukraine has brought into the fold since the invasion. Are you ok ending this war with Ukraine coming out with less territory than they started with?. They are not. So at some point every inch will have to be worth risking lives for. |
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:11:29 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnL5YBLWIAEIOFZ?format=jpg&name=large 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2023 11:12:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: Saltwater-Hillbilly]
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2A373: Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By 2A373: The claims made here that Leopards are better mx wise is something that I'd love to see some facts that back up the claim. I have a hard time believing the Germans somehow managed to design and build something that isn't overly complicated and hard to maintain. This is the argument for Leopard over Abrams, summarized. Every German on Twitter is well aware of this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/379BE6A8-0E11-490B-95E9-D63310905C83_jpe-2682746.JPG /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/Fat_baby_laughs-777.gif Concur. It is a nice meme, but when you compare actual combat records, not so much. I believe that more Leopards have been total write-offs due to battle damage than Abrams. Definitely a lot more Leos than Challengers have been wrecked. I have a feeling that the idea ""we don't want Leo's to get killed unless Abrams are also dying" will backfire in a big way, as my bet is that M1s are far easier to maintain in combat conditions at the unit level than the Leo, and the Challengers being sent will probably put the Leos to shame regarding crew survivability.. |
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