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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:20:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Every nation on earth that has any agriculture at all has "bio labs". They research animal and plant diseases for prevention and cures. It's a big no shit that some of the diseases they study can affect humans. Retards tend to not understand how this stuff works. Very true. But the absolute denial of ANY bio labs and the cynical ridicule of anyone who asked about bio-labs (after they noticed the State Department's presser talking about the evacuation of US funded bio labs in Ukraine) really did more damage that the stupid Russian propaganda efforts. Just like the democrats yelling "Russia, Russia, Russia" every time they got caught being stupid did more damage that Russia could have ever dreamed. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:24:04 PM EDT
[#2]
 https://newsmaker.md/rus/novosti/video-uchastie-ofisa-narodnogo-advokata-moldovy-v-upravlenii-migratsionnym-krizisom/  Implicarea Avocatului Poporului in gestionarea situatiei persoanelor refugiate |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:33:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I’ve said before that the West has repeatedly headfaked on significant systems. HiMARS and Patriot being the most obvious. Prior to HIMARS there were “semi-official” leaks saying we’d decided against it. Lavrov even came out and praised us for being “reasonable.” A few days later we sent them in. Why is this? Playing games to demoralize Russian leadership perhaps? Trying to make certain Russian officials clutch at straws then yank them away? Obscuring our actual level of support? As most know I’ve been a proponent of the “frogboiling plan” to bleed Russia to death slowly. If Russia had known 10 months ago what NATO was willing to send - and preparations had begun immediately to send them - would things have changed? I would argue quite possibly yes, Putin would've been incentivized to cut his losses and “declare victory.” I know most here think this is simple incompetence/indecision, but when it keeps happening the same way it should raise some questions. I predict we’ll do it with GLSDB and again with fighters and again with ATACMS. It could also be the result of handwringing, dithering, and internal fights that we dont know about. How many times has the various Departments had to backtrack and totally contradict something Biden had announced. It could be brilliant head fakes and frogboilling OR chaos, indecision, and changing minds due to external pressure and mood swings. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:39:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#4]
These two Brits were by all (other) accounts somewhere in Donbas doing civilian evacuations and Russians "found" their bodies in Soledar.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:39:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat.  But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:45:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Think about? Seriously? What in the actual fuck is going on? 2 weeks? Why do they need 2 weeks? What are they actually doing while they tell us they are "thinking about"? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Oh come on, just do the right thing guys.
Think about? Seriously? What in the actual fuck is going on? 2 weeks? Why do they need 2 weeks? What are they actually doing while they tell us they are "thinking about"? Seriously, everyone seems to think this will set Putin off and no one wants to go down in history as being an accomplice to MAD. I believe if done correctly and with significant force, speed, and clarity of operation, the Russkies(not Putin) would see the picture and " coup d' tat " Putin. Think tank the plan, deliver the equipment necessary, executed by UA, rinse, repeat if necessary, offer remainder of Russian command adequate but not generous conditions. Plan two: Russia likes to puff up purple like an engorged penis and threaten? Let's show them how that is done. Send them a "leaked" video of the US loading 200 TLAMS, 200 Harms, 200 ea.: Maverick, Hellfire, and ATACMs onto transports and as a simple, easy to read bonus(just because he besmirches the USMC brand) a separate video of Scott Ritter getting a high colonic of Black Rifle Company Coffee. That is all. Carry on. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:56:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#7]
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: It could also be the result of handwringing, dithering, and internal fights that we dont know about. How many times has the various Departments had to backtrack and totally contradict something Biden had announced. It could be brilliant head fakes and frogboilling OR chaos, indecision, and changing minds due to external pressure and mood swings. This is the much more likely scenario. Democracies are sloppy, uncertain, and hesitant. It’s how they are designed, and how they work. When you get multiple ones trying to work together, it’s even worse. Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Get out of the boat, it makes you feel alive But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. I agree with you. I’ve seen a real chance in the general tenor of the threads over the last six months. The Putin gargling is down 70% or more. Ther are the hard-core “but my border wall…” crowd still - but the sway of logical arguments works and vastly more people step up now with clear-eyed analysis of US and western interests. People are watching and listening. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I'm waiting for the talking point that these people fired were against the WEF Globohomo agenda, so the west demanded their removal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Prime: Russians on TG trying to say that the tanks are in exchange for resignations/firings in the Ukrainian administration. So that's coming. Well of course they were against it! That's why they were working with Putin! Think about it!!!!
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:10:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I appreciate reading about these perspectives, and the time you took to translate that for us. Thank you for that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Very interesting article in Der Spiegel. Interview with a polsih political expert and think-tank member of the European Council on Foreign Relations. It's behind a paywall, so you can look at it here if you read German: https://archive.is/r1yDZ . Unfortunately, that won't work with Google Translate so I hope you guys appreciate me translating it on the fly and typing all of this up.  The loss of reputation is catastrophic Berlin's hesitation in delivering Leopard outrages the Eastern Europeans, says political expert Piotr Buras. Many are asking if the Germans areserious about their support for Ukraine - or if doing business with Moscow is more important. SPIEGEL: The polish government is disappointed in Germany, because they still haven't decided if they will deliver Leopard tanks. Has Polen understood why Germany is being so hesitant? Buras: The polish public - and not just them - is confused but also outraged at the Germans (Note Zhukov: He specifically says Germans - not German government). How controversial the internal debate is that there is also German criticism does not get through. Olaf Scholz represents the Germans. And he actually never really explained his arguments. SPIEGEL: What is Poland suspecting? Buras: Many in Warsaw believe that Berlin doesn't believe that Ukraine can still accomplish much in this war. And that's why, from the Germans' point of view, it's not worth getting involved there. Some even suspect that the Germans wish for Ukraine to lose. SPIEGEL: Why should they? Buras: There is fear that the Germans hope to quickly return to doing business with Russia. They forget that Berlin is one of the most important arms suppliers to Ukraine. But their zig-zagging, this reluctance, has been observed again and again since the beginning of the war. The Germans don't act, they only react when international pressure is overwhelming. People here believe that their commitment is really serious. The loss of reputation as a result is catastrophic. Ramstein's decision not to supply tanks is seen as a blockade. SPIEGEL: The Poles have doubts that the promised turning point is really coming? Buras: Olaf Scholz's speech was received with enthusiasm. And I believe that Germany has also come a long way in recent months when it comes to taking a critical look at Russia, for example. The turning point - not the one promised by Scholz, but the real one in the world - goes deeper. Much more is expected of Germany. But the country somehow always lags behind. SPIEGEL: The German government does not show a unified front. Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock has signaled that Berlin would approve Leopard exports from countries like Poland. Can Berlin actually still say no to their own deliveries? Buras: I believe and hope that it is only a matter of time before Germany agrees on the Leopard issue. The long hesitation has set the political price for a no even higher. Defense Minister Boris Pistorius has given a test order for the Leos, Ukrainians are probably already being trained on the device. I can't imagine that the government could now seriously come to the decision that it actually doesn't want to supply tanks. That could no longer be conveyed to anyone among the international partners. I appreciate reading about these perspectives, and the time you took to translate that for us. Thank you for that. Yes, thanks! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:13:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Schwarzenegger made a personal call for Russia to end the war, several months ago. What's there to apologize for? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Originally Posted By Paraflare: On behalf of my Austro-German heritage, I'd like to apologize personally for: Hitler Scholz Schwarzennegger Merkel Feel free to add lol. It's embarrassing at this point! Schwarzenegger made a personal call for Russia to end the war, several months ago. What's there to apologize for? Red Heat Raw Deal Terminator Genisys. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:13:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Get out of the boat, it makes you feel alive But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:13:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlackHoleSon: When is the last time Germany wasn't a hindrance if not an outright detriment? I'd bet horses were still a main mode of travel Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlackHoleSon: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Oh come on, just do the right thing guys.
When is the last time Germany wasn't a hindrance if not an outright detriment? I'd bet horses were still a main mode of travel From way back in the thread...  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:15:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Swiss lick more German boot, allow arms re-export:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/01/24/7386362/ Following their German master’s lead, they change their policy. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:16:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Swiss lick more German boot, allow arms re-export: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/01/24/7386362/ Following their German master’s lead, they change their policy. The Swiss have always been pussies. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:17:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Still want to see a Gepard ruin a KA-52. All else is secondary, Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Well, there it is .gif
Seeing video of M1s smashing T tanks/BTRs/BMPs would arouse me almost as much as video of destroyed Tu-160.  Still want to see a Gepard ruin a KA-52. All else is secondary, Oh yes, that would do very nicely.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:18:07 PM EDT
[#16]
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:19:37 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Reminder: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnHbwHwWAAEpfsf?format=jpg&name=900x900 It’s lost on me, every time I see reports like this, why the violated Russian soldiers don’t kill a bunch of Kadyrovites on their way out. I mean, if you’re suicidal over the treatment you’ve received, why not share the misery? That’s some real beta cowardice in my eyes. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:22:46 PM EDT
[#19]
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:23:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Swiss lick more German boot, allow arms re-export: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/01/24/7386362/ Following their German master’s lead, they change their policy. There is a lot of money to make and they want their share. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:24:28 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:29:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: trapsh00ter99]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:35:30 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:35:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ServusVeritatis]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... I don’t think you want Russia to win. It’s just that people that don’t think it’s worth the money don’t see the larger picture. If you’re not seeing the benefit in the return it’s hard to trust the “don’t send them money” brigade with other opinions. It’s kinda like my grandad that stuffed a shoe box full of cash under the floorboards of his cabin as he didn’t believe in banks or investing. At 55 the cabin burned down and he lost everything. That was on top of his money just sitting there for 25 years. He didn’t understand how his money worked for him….didn’t want it to leave his hands. Same level of misunderstanding. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:37:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryLOL. Yeah, it is going to be a big mess for Ukraine trying to master all these technologically advanced tanks that don't share any parts. This has really turned out to be a laboratory of warfare. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:44:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: The "Ukibros" get called Biden/WEF/vax supporting boomers 20x more often then what you state, then posters like R0N denies that happens. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... I can't deny that. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:47:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... That is a main problem many have. They spot off about billions just being sent there so zelensky can play scrooge mc duck in his mansion. 90% of it is hard goods. Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, supplies, medical gear, you know, all the shit you need to fight a war. I do my best to not call names and explain what is happening, but it is tough when someone who only listens to tucker wants to show their ass. The dod is cleaning out the closets and sending old and some expired cold wars shit and putting a monetary value on it. M113 apc's are part of that "money". Shit we have been making reefs out of. It's cheaper to send old missiles there to kill commies, add it to the "money" and not have to pay to demil it. Seriously, how do you educate anyone who calls you a liar and it is actually just money being sent? |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:49:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: I don’t think you want Russia to win. It’s just that people that don’t think it’s worth the money don’t see the larger picture. If you’re not seeing the benefit in the return it’s hard to trust the “don’t send them money” brigade with other opinions. It’s kinda like my grandad that stuffed a shoe box full of cash under the floorboards of his cabin as he didn’t believe in banks or investing. At 55 the cabin burned down and he lost everything. That was on top of his money just sitting there for 25 years. He didn’t understand how his money worked for him….didn’t want it to leave his hands. Same level of misunderstanding. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By craig19: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... I don’t think you want Russia to win. It’s just that people that don’t think it’s worth the money don’t see the larger picture. If you’re not seeing the benefit in the return it’s hard to trust the “don’t send them money” brigade with other opinions. It’s kinda like my grandad that stuffed a shoe box full of cash under the floorboards of his cabin as he didn’t believe in banks or investing. At 55 the cabin burned down and he lost everything. That was on top of his money just sitting there for 25 years. He didn’t understand how his money worked for him….didn’t want it to leave his hands. Same level of misunderstanding. I get that. Honestly, you guys have changed my mind on a lot the stuff going on over. I really didn't pay any attention to it, until I stumbled across this thread, a couple of weeks ago. I find a lot of the combat footage interesting. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm a Gen Xer, grew up hating Russia. I have 0 sympathy for them. I'm still not 100% with all the aid we are giving, but I understand it more. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:50:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Interesting article on Russia-India relations, no paywall.
 https://www.foreignaffairs.com/india/will-india-ditch-russia |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:52:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: I get that. Honestly, you guys have changed my mind on a lot the stuff going on over. I really didn't pay any attention to it, until I stumbled across this thread, a couple of weeks ago. I find a lot of the combat footage interesting. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm a Gen Xer, grew up hating Russia. I have 0 sympathy for them. I'm still not 100% with all the aid we are giving, but I understand it more. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: Originally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By craig19: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... I don’t think you want Russia to win. It’s just that people that don’t think it’s worth the money don’t see the larger picture. If you’re not seeing the benefit in the return it’s hard to trust the “don’t send them money” brigade with other opinions. It’s kinda like my grandad that stuffed a shoe box full of cash under the floorboards of his cabin as he didn’t believe in banks or investing. At 55 the cabin burned down and he lost everything. That was on top of his money just sitting there for 25 years. He didn’t understand how his money worked for him….didn’t want it to leave his hands. Same level of misunderstanding. I get that. Honestly, you guys have changed my mind on a lot the stuff going on over. I really didn't pay any attention to it, until I stumbled across this thread, a couple of weeks ago. I find a lot of the combat footage interesting. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm a Gen Xer, grew up hating Russia. I have 0 sympathy for them. I'm still not 100% with all the aid we are giving, but I understand it more. Just keep open minded. And sort through the propaganda. Especially what you hear state side on social media. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:58:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
NICE.  |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 5:58:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... What gets people called called Russian trolls is constantly repeating Russian narratives such as Ukraine is filled with Nazis, Ukraine was genociding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for eight years, the west was operating biolabs in Ukraine that threatened Russia and provoked them into invading, Zelensky is a tyrant who is persecuting Christians, the CIA instigated the Maidan in '14, etc. Narratives like these are constantly repeated in other Ukraine threads here, and they're literal, outright Russian propaganda. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:01:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: trapsh00ter99]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig19: I get that. Honestly, you guys have changed my mind on a lot the stuff going on over. I really didn't pay any attention to it, until I stumbled across this thread, a couple of weeks ago. I find a lot of the combat footage interesting. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm a Gen Xer, grew up hating Russia. I have 0 sympathy for them. I'm still not 100% with all the aid we are giving, but I understand it more. This is from November, so it doesn't reflect the latest allocation in the omnibus. https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukraine-explained-six-charts Edit: I'll add, billions won't even actually be spent for years in advance. Nearly 10 billion isn't due to be spend until 2026 or after. That's because when news comes out "US sends 1 billion aid package including, X, Y, and Z" that's not money being spent. It is just getting a value put on it, and what is actually being spent is backfill contracts to replenish stocks (like Javelins or HIMARS) or upgrade equipment (M113s) https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2022-05/hr7691_passed.pdf |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:03:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: NICE. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
NICE. lol, I thought you had the footage when you posted the geolocated area.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:06:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Here is a good breakdown of how the aid works, if you are interested. Specifically Q3 & Q4 break down the mil aid part. It details how the different funds work. Of the first 68 billion, nearly 11 billion was allocated to the US military for additional deployments, logistics, ISR missions, etc. This is from November, so it doesn't reflect the latest allocation in the omnibus. https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukraine-explained-six-charts Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By craig19: I get that. Honestly, you guys have changed my mind on a lot the stuff going on over. I really didn't pay any attention to it, until I stumbled across this thread, a couple of weeks ago. I find a lot of the combat footage interesting. Just to be perfectly clear, I'm a Gen Xer, grew up hating Russia. I have 0 sympathy for them. I'm still not 100% with all the aid we are giving, but I understand it more. This is from November, so it doesn't reflect the latest allocation in the omnibus. https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukraine-explained-six-charts I appreciate this, using it to show friends and family how this all works. Education and facts are key and the devil is in the details. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:08:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I think the only people who are shocked are those who are shocked something is actually being done about it. That's not normal. Imagine if we would start doing that here???? We wouldn't have a government! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:09:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: What gets people called called Russian trolls is constantly repeating Russian narratives such as Ukraine is filled with Nazis, Ukraine was genociding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for eight years, the west was operating biolabs in Ukraine that threatened Russia and provoked them into invading, Zelensky is a tyrant who is persecuting Christians, the CIA instigated the Maidan in '14, etc. Narratives like these are constantly repeated in other Ukraine threads here, and they're literal, outright Russian propaganda. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By craig19: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you'd expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. But, I think it's good to post level-head rebuttals, and let them stand out in the tarded comments. The F Ukraine bois aren't changing their mind, but maybe a reasonable third party will consider your rebuttals when compared to some of the idiotic takes from the F Ukraine crowd. The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... What gets people called called Russian trolls is constantly repeating Russian narratives such as Ukraine is filled with Nazis, Ukraine was genociding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for eight years, the west was operating biolabs in Ukraine that threatened Russia and provoked them into invading, Zelensky is a tyrant who is persecuting Christians, the CIA instigated the Maidan in '14, etc. Narratives like these are constantly repeated in other Ukraine threads here, and they're literal, outright Russian propaganda. Don’t forget the ever popular “evil NATO is holding a gun to Ukraine’s head and forcing them to join, which forces noble Russia to reluctantly annex them in self defense”. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:10:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I appreciate this, using it to show friends and family how this all works. Education and facts are key and the devil is in the details. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:13:51 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: What gets people called called Russian trolls is constantly repeating Russian narratives such as Ukraine is filled with Nazis, Ukraine was genociding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for eight years, the west was operating biolabs in Ukraine that threatened Russia and provoked them into invading, Zelensky is a tyrant who is persecuting Christians, the CIA instigated the Maidan in '14, etc. Narratives like these are constantly repeated in other Ukraine threads here, and they're literal, outright Russian propaganda. It's also in writing with Yeltsin's signature on the paper. Countries have a right to determine who and what alliances to join. Russia has no grounds to stand on invading Ukraine over wanting to join NATO and the EU. But idiots insist Russia is justified for it. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:15:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Every nation on earth that has any agriculture at all has "bio labs". They research animal and plant diseases for prevention and cures. It's a big no shit that some of the diseases they study can affect humans. Retards tend to not understand how this stuff works. Yep, that's kind of my point.  People hear 'The US has biolabs in Ukraine' and this is true, and in a post Covid world it sounds sinister. The fact that the propaganda worked so well is not because people took some completely made up story and ran with it, but because the US did sponsor research for the Biological Threat Reduction Program. That is why the propaganda took hold, because their was a kernel of truth in there. Now clearly this doesn't mean the US was developing biological weapons there, but again, that's kind of why the propaganda was so clever.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:17:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Sure thing! Make sure you see the edit and the CBO pdf Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I appreciate this, using it to show friends and family how this all works. Education and facts are key and the devil is in the details. Yep, good info, thanks again.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:23:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Interesting article on Russia-India relations, no paywall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/India_JPG-2684043.jpg https://www.foreignaffairs.com/india/will-india-ditch-russia Hmm, I thought Russia, China, and India were combining as trade partners to knock off the dollar as the global trading currency. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:24:20 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:27:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: Hmm, I thought Russia, China, and India were combining as trade partners to knock off the dollar as the global trading currency. India and China HATE each other. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:27:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Reminder: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnHbwHwWAAEpfsf?format=jpg&name=900x900 He would have done better to take some of the bastards with him on the way out instead of just hanging himself. Even if he just set their ammo dump on fire with a cigarette. Instead it's just another loss for no purpose, and the kadyrovite orcs who abused him get to laugh over his corpse. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:30:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: It's also in writing with Yeltsin's signature on the paper. Countries have a right to determine who and what alliances to join. Russia has no grounds to stand on invading Ukraine over wanting to join NATO and the EU. But idiots insist Russia is justified for it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: What gets people called called Russian trolls is constantly repeating Russian narratives such as Ukraine is filled with Nazis, Ukraine was genociding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for eight years, the west was operating biolabs in Ukraine that threatened Russia and provoked them into invading, Zelensky is a tyrant who is persecuting Christians, the CIA instigated the Maidan in '14, etc. Narratives like these are constantly repeated in other Ukraine threads here, and they're literal, outright Russian propaganda. It's also in writing with Yeltsin's signature on the paper. Countries have a right to determine who and what alliances to join. Russia has no grounds to stand on invading Ukraine over wanting to join NATO and the EU. But idiots insist Russia is justified for it. The underlying message behind Russia arguing that NATO expansionism provoked their invasion is that they don't view their neighboring states as being sovereign entities. Part of national sovereignty is being free to choose who you align yourself with, and through arguing that their Eastern European neighbors are provoking them through joining NATO and establishing greater ties to the west at large, they're essentially arguing that said Eastern European neighbors aren't sovereign states who can decide their own destiny. Rather, the Russians view them as being parts of Russia (in the case of Ukraine) or countries that should naturally fall under their sphere of influence. This is honestly why I think that if they aren't stopped cold in Ukraine, they'll eventually pull the same bullshit with the Baltic States, with whatever chunks of Ukraine they didn't annex this time around (if we let them), with Poland if they ever succeed in conquering the entirety of Ukraine, etc. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:33:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Pointer guy putting in work.
Telegram link in tweet.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:43:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: That is a main problem many have. They spot off about billions just being sent there so zelensky can play scrooge mc duck in his mansion. 90% of it is hard goods. Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, supplies, medical gear, you know, all the shit you need to fight a war. I do my best to not call names and explain what is happening, but it is tough when someone who only listens to tucker wants to show their ass. The dod is cleaning out the closets and sending old and some expired cold wars shit and putting a monetary value on it. M113 apc's are part of that "money". Shit we have been making reefs out of. It's cheaper to send old missiles there to kill commies, add it to the "money" and not have to pay to demil it. Seriously, how do you educate anyone who calls you a liar and it is actually just money being sent? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By craig19: The reasonable third party people get turned off pretty quickly, when they are called Putin lovers for disagreeing with all the cash being sent over there. Just because we aren't fans of all the tax money the US is blowing over there, doesn't mean we want Russia to win. Some of the shit the Ukraine bois have said and done is flat out 'tarded. Especially, when it turns into purse swinging and name calling. I'll be called a Russian troll in 3, 2, 1.... That is a main problem many have. They spot off about billions just being sent there so zelensky can play scrooge mc duck in his mansion. 90% of it is hard goods. Weapons, ammunition, vehicles, supplies, medical gear, you know, all the shit you need to fight a war. I do my best to not call names and explain what is happening, but it is tough when someone who only listens to tucker wants to show their ass. The dod is cleaning out the closets and sending old and some expired cold wars shit and putting a monetary value on it. M113 apc's are part of that "money". Shit we have been making reefs out of. It's cheaper to send old missiles there to kill commies, add it to the "money" and not have to pay to demil it. Seriously, how do you educate anyone who calls you a liar and it is actually just money being sent? I fully agree, what I don't understand is why nobody has actually published the costs of storage and upkeep (monthly or annually) for this military hardware and ammunition. The future savings of having to demil munitions also has to be substantial. After all this equipment is being used for its intended purpose without US boots in the battle. This is the deal of a generation! |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:43:32 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 6:45:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: I'm thinking in a large part this is why the hesitancy to send western tanks. Get a 70 ton m1 stuck in the mud and leave it and all its gadgets for the ruskies to play with won't go over well. I would think that there would be sufficient infantry support for the tank as part of a deal to get them and also provided to secure the crew and destroy the tank if necessary. Western tanks, western tactics. |
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