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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:30:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Russians on TG trying to say that the tanks are in exchange for resignations/firings in the Ukrainian administration. So that's coming. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:30:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#2]
Reminder: 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:30:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: LMAO Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ludder093:
LMAO No shit ! |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:34:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Poland and friends send the big cats without German approval. What happens then? If abandoning German MiC what’s it matter? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Oh come on, just do the right thing guys.
Poland and friends send the big cats without German approval. What happens then? If abandoning German MiC what’s it matter? German gov. decided to send Leopards an hour ago. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:35:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: No shit ! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ludder093:
LMAO No shit ! The horses reaction is funny enough, but the fact that they are considering horses for evac of wounded is just as funny. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:37:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Russians on TG trying to say that the tanks are in exchange for resignations/firings in the Ukrainian administration. So that's coming. I was against the corruption before I was for it |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:38:14 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:38:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I'm waiting for the talking point that these people fired were against the WEF Globohomo agenda, so the west demanded their removal. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:40:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: No shit ! |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:43:44 PM EDT
[#10]
 Leopard tank maker Rheinmetall 'braced for busy year' |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:47:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: German gov. decided to send Leopards an hour ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Finslayer83: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Oh come on, just do the right thing guys.
Poland and friends send the big cats without German approval. What happens then? If abandoning German MiC what’s it matter? German gov. decided to send Leopards an hour ago. Willing to bet they rescind it or “clarify” latter. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:50:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: No, I'm not, and I don't think you understand what I said at all. My point is that Ukraine shouldn't defend bad positions like Severodonetsk, shouldn't be afraid to retreat to superior positions when needed, and shouldn't let Russia grind up their best units over ground that means nothing and can likely be retaken later in future offensives, as Kharkiv showed. I agree that the UA should not do the stupid "not one inch back" type fight to the death that both the Germans and Soviets tended to do in WWII. Russia has too much destructive power to just sit and fight to the death. But since every square inch of Ukraine will need to be recaptured, they should put a cost on the Russians everywhere they want to advance. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:52:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Oh joy, as if the spin on that hasn't been dumb enough. Though it is going to fun calling out posters on now defending corruption after a year of screaming about it. I was against the corruption before I was for it The insidiousness of propaganda. Take something that is true and use it. Take corruption. Every nation has corruption. Ukraine has in the event past struggled with it and is still dealing with it. Russia harps on it. My "favorite" was the biolabs hubbub. The fact the US did/sponsored biological research in labs in Ukraine is true. Russia pushes the narrative, and the US is caught between having to explain what went on in the 'biolabs', which no one reads beyond the headline so this is useless, or deny it ever happened, leading to being caught in a 'falsehood'. Either way, Russia can claim a propaganda victory. Successful propaganda isn't "Russians stronk VDV are killing all the Ukrainian Nazis!" it's using true facts in insidious ways. See biolabs, Biden, corruption, etc. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:55:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I agree that the UA should not do the stupid "not one inch back" type fight to the death that both the Germans and Soviets tended to do in WWII. Russia has too much destructive power to just sit and fight to the death. But since every square inch of Ukraine will need to be recaptured, they should put a cost on the Russians everywhere they want to advance. I would hope no Ukrainian commander would retreat willy-nilly, but I also think giving them freedom and flexibility to give themselves the best chance to be successful is the best path. Sometimes tactical retreats and maneuver make sense. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:55:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Willing to bet they rescind it or “clarify” latter. as i sit at my desk looking at a military prayer and song manual that was issued to "Mustetier" [Musketeer] Cluster in the 1890s, I am so glad my folks left Germany. Not that our politicians are much better. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:57:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#16]
 Russians are posting this Ukrainian wedding footage to make fun of it, but it's endearingly funny. According to Wagner TG, there was also a song about the Moskva.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:57:24 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 2:58:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/LOGOs_JPG-2683861.jpg |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:00:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: From estimates, there are probably less than 50 serviceable Ka-52's. Either a new tactic is being employed and Ukrainians are getting closer to the Russian air power and ambushing it. Or other more powerful air defense systems are being used closer to the front on the Ukrainian side. Either way, it's a significant number of air kills the past few days. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Schmigs: Originally Posted By Easterner:   https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/526834/IMG_20230124_094415_jpg-2683432.JPG Big day for air defense. I wonder how many Ka-52s are still serviceable. From estimates, there are probably less than 50 serviceable Ka-52's. Either a new tactic is being employed and Ukrainians are getting closer to the Russian air power and ambushing it. Or other more powerful air defense systems are being used closer to the front on the Ukrainian side. Either way, it's a significant number of air kills the past few days. Or the Russians for whatever reason have more need/reason to risk those assets. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:01:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/LOGOs_JPG-2683861.jpg lol, no doubt there are going to be very interesting books published of first hand accounts by Ukrainian techs and their work on so many different systems that they worked on after the war.
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LA, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:04:25 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:09:14 PM EDT
[#22]
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/24/us/politics/pentagon-ukraine-ammunition.html Pentagon Will Increase Artillery Production Sixfold for Ukraine The Army’s top acquisition official says production of the 155-millimeter shells badly needed by Kyiv will rise to 90,000 a month in two years. Before Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, the U.S. Army’s production of 14,400 unguided shells a month had been sufficient for the American military’s way of war. But the need to supply Kyiv’s armed forces prompted Pentagon leaders to triple production goals in September, and then double them again in January so that they could eventually make 90,000 or more shells a month. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:09:17 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:10:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amanbearpig: The insidiousness of propaganda. Take something that is true and use it. Take corruption. Every nation has corruption. Ukraine has in the event past struggled with it and is still dealing with it. Russia harps on it. My "favorite" was the biolabs hubbub. The fact the US did/sponsored biological research in labs in Ukraine is true. Russia pushes the narrative, and the US is caught between having to explain what went on in the 'biolabs', which no one reads beyond the headline so this is useless, or deny it ever happened, leading to being caught in a 'falsehood'. Either way, Russia can claim a propaganda victory. Successful propaganda isn't "Russians stronk VDV are killing all the Ukrainian Nazis!" it's using true facts in insidious ways. See biolabs, Biden, corruption, etc. Every nation on earth that has any agriculture at all has "bio labs". They research animal and plant diseases for prevention and cures. It's a big no shit that some of the diseases they study can affect humans. Retards tend to not understand how this stuff works. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:10:49 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:13:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Russians deleted by anti-personnel mine Ukrainian artillery scores a direct hit on a group of Russian soldiers. Ukrainian drone dropping munitions on Russians viewed in IR. It’s always a bit eerie (and sad) watching what you know are the last seconds of someone’s life. At least the guys next to the BMP didn't suffer much. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:16:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bbrocks:
Sounds like good news. I have questions: 1) When 2) What is Poland sending 3) Are the Polish sending theirs with crews |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:17:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Factbox-Who are the officials swept out in Ukraine's biggest shake-up of the war? Wow. What charges are they facing/prison time are they looking at? |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:19:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Seeing video of M1s smashing T tanks/BTRs/BMPs would arouse me almost as much as video of destroyed Tu-160.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Well, there it is .gif
Seeing video of M1s smashing T tanks/BTRs/BMPs would arouse me almost as much as video of destroyed Tu-160. Still want to see a Gepard ruin a KA-52. All else is secondary, |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:25:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paraflare: On behalf of my Austro-German heritage, I'd like to apologize personally for: Hitler Scholz Schwarzennegger Merkel Feel free to add lol. It's embarrassing at this point! Schwarzenegger made a personal call for Russia to end the war, several months ago. What's there to apologize for? |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:28:16 PM EDT
[#31]
"Ukrainian Army Drone Footage Shows Purported Russian Sneak Attack"  Ukrainian Army Drone Footage Shows Purported Russian Sneak Attack |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:28:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: Sounds like good news. I have questions: 1) When 2) What is Poland sending 3) Are the Polish sending theirs with crews Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: Originally Posted By bbrocks:
Sounds like good news. I have questions: 1) When 2) What is Poland sending 3) Are the Polish sending theirs with crews lol, I'm actually surprised that Germany is sending A6 variants and not the A4. Good to see. A6 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:28:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Factbox-Who are the officials swept out in Ukraine's biggest shake-up of the war? |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:33:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryI'm thinking in a large part this is why the hesitancy to send western tanks. Get a 70 ton m1 stuck in the mud and leave it and all its gadgets for the ruskies to play with won't go over well. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:34:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: The horses reaction is funny enough, but the fact that they are considering horses for evac of wounded is just as funny. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Swampgrass: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ludder093:
LMAO No shit ! The horses reaction is funny enough, but the fact that they are considering horses for evac of wounded is just as funny. You like horses?... ...for three whole days we shot wounded horses. All day long. Sun up to sun down. Putting down horses. Hot summer days. Ain't smelled nothing like it. The sound of it. Those fucking horses screaming. Black clouds of flies buzzing. Like being in a giant bee hive. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:34:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Very interesting article in Der Spiegel. Interview with a polsih political expert and think-tank member of the European Council on Foreign Relations. It's behind a paywall, so you can look at it here if you read German: https://archive.is/r1yDZ . Unfortunately, that won't work with Google Translate so I hope you guys appreciate me translating it on the fly and typing all of this up.   |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:38:32 PM EDT
[#37]
All kinds of trading going on.
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:43:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: You like horses?... ...for three whole days we shot wounded horses. All day long. Sun up to sun down. Putting down horses. Hot summer days. Ain't smelled nothing like it. The sound of it. Those fucking horses screaming. Black clouds of flies buzzing. Like being in a giant bee hive. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Auto5guy: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Swampgrass: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ludder093:
LMAO No shit ! The horses reaction is funny enough, but the fact that they are considering horses for evac of wounded is just as funny. You like horses?... ...for three whole days we shot wounded horses. All day long. Sun up to sun down. Putting down horses. Hot summer days. Ain't smelled nothing like it. The sound of it. Those fucking horses screaming. Black clouds of flies buzzing. Like being in a giant bee hive.  I'm in the mood to go watch "The Beast" for some reason today. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:44:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Erno86]
[#39]
"Russian soldiers die in droves in frontline trenches as they are hit by Ukrainian artillery"  Russian Soldiers die in droves in frontline trenches as they are hit by Ukrainian artillery |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:44:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: I'm thinking in a large part this is why the hesitancy to send western tanks. Get a 70 ton m1 stuck in the mud and leave it and all its gadgets for the ruskies to play with won't go over well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnh57: I'm thinking in a large part this is why the hesitancy to send western tanks. Get a 70 ton m1 stuck in the mud and leave it and all its gadgets for the ruskies to play with won't go over well. The Russians probably have a SME on the Abrams almost as well versed as any US SME. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:46:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: lol, I'm actually surprised that Germany is sending A6 variants and not the A4. Good to see. A6 https://www.kmweg.com/fileadmin/user_upload/fce/product_image/Leopard-2-A6-KMW-002.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By general_cluster: Originally Posted By bbrocks:
Sounds like good news. I have questions: 1) When 2) What is Poland sending 3) Are the Polish sending theirs with crews lol, I'm actually surprised that Germany is sending A6 variants and not the A4. Good to see. A6 https://www.kmweg.com/fileadmin/user_upload/fce/product_image/Leopard-2-A6-KMW-002.jpg Poland has 45 A4PL, 105 A5 and 97 A4 versions. I hope they will send the A4PL or A5s. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:49:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: I'm going to play devil's advocate here simply by wondering if Geramy's slowness to respond is actually an OPSEC diversion. Training may be already ongoing for Ukrainian soldiers on their Leopards, transportation to the front lines of lots of tanks is always a security concern. My criticism of how NATO, including the US, is how open we have been about what we are doing and when we are doing it. Russia doesn't need any spies, we voluntarily surrender our logistics plans online and in the press. I may be wrong, but I believe Germany will send tanks, maybe a significant number of them. I’ve said before that the West has repeatedly headfaked on significant systems. HiMARS and Patriot being the most obvious. Prior to HIMARS there were “semi-official” leaks saying we’d decided against it. Lavrov even came out and praised us for being “reasonable.” A few days later we sent them in. Why is this? Playing games to demoralize Russian leadership perhaps? Trying to make certain Russian officials clutch at straws then yank them away? Obscuring our actual level of support? As most know I’ve been a proponent of the “frogboiling plan” to bleed Russia to death slowly. If Russia had known 10 months ago what NATO was willing to send - and preparations had begun immediately to send them - would things have changed? I would argue quite possibly yes, Putin would've been incentivized to cut his losses and “declare victory.” I know most here think this is simple incompetence/indecision, but when it keeps happening the same way it should raise some questions. I predict we’ll do it with GLSDB and again with fighters and again with ATACMS. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:49:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I'm waiting for the talking point that these people fired were against the WEF Globohomo agenda, so the west demanded their removal. Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you’d expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 3:56:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: The Russians probably have a SME on the Abrams almost as well versed as any US SME. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By johnh57: I'm thinking in a large part this is why the hesitancy to send western tanks. Get a 70 ton m1 stuck in the mud and leave it and all its gadgets for the ruskies to play with won't go over well. The Russians probably have a SME on the Abrams almost as well versed as any US SME. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:02:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: If they wanted M1s all they had to do was walk into Afghanistan after we left. There's plenty for everyone. I thought so too, but Google says no m1's left in afg. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:08:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: If they wanted M1s all they had to do was walk into Afghanistan after we left. There's plenty for everyone. This was already covered in this thread. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:09:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By veritas8985: Buy what about NYC? North Jersey. Philly. Shit, war would be over by Easter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By veritas8985: Originally Posted By Auto5guy: Originally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By torstin: If you could magically send half of Baltimore or Memphis to fight for Ukraine, would you do so? Your terms are acceptable. But I would also insist on LA, Houston, Chicago, and Miami. Portland and Seattle demand a seat at that table... Buy what about NYC? North Jersey. Philly. Shit, war would be over by Easter. Indianapolis and St. Louis would be glad to be placed in Auxiliary Seating I am sure. |
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#48]
Good to see Germany is sending some of their Cats to Ukraine. I thought they were going to just "approve" the sending of them by other countries.
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:19:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4xGM300m]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Good to see Germany is sending some of their Cats to Ukraine. I thought they were going to just "approve" the sending of them by other countries. Olaf got humiliated enough, he doesn't want a second round for not sending Bundeswehr tanks. 
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Posted: 1/24/2023 4:19:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you’d expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: I'm waiting for the talking point that these people fired were against the WEF Globohomo agenda, so the west demanded their removal. Ugh - I was just in a GD thread about the German Leopard decision. It went about like you’d expect from a GD thread on Ukraine. Remind me more often: never get out of the boat. I was in the Tulsi Gabbard thread...
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