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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:44:51 PM EDT
[#1]
@Tboy
@Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:56:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Not to be a buzzkill, but the government opened up firearms to its population so it can survive. They did not do it to preserve liberty and freedom, they did it to preserve themselves. Once the threat is over, the rights will be over. The purpose of citizens having arms is NOT to protect the state, but to protect liberty and freedom. This is what made our founders so different then most governments. They were concerned about preserving the state, but more so concerned with preserving the ideas of individual liberty.
I would be thrilled if Russia did not invade, and the citizens got to keep and bear their arms. I just don't see that happening. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:02:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tboy]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:09:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: You forgot to mention something about luciferian globalists and how Putin is standing up to globohomo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: The MIC in this country runs the show. Neoconservatism lives.  We need to spend more time working on us. You forgot to mention something about luciferian globalists and how Putin is standing up to globohomo.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:23:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: What argument? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You're in Ukraine. The majority of Russia's entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are "not pushing for a war" is irrelevant. Are you "pushing" for resistance and defiance? Are you "pushing" back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It's a direct argument against the claims being made. Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. That's no argument. It's the truth in describing the path this argument has taken. What argument? You already got another thread locked. Be a good sport and stop so this one doesn't get locked as well. Please. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:30:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: You already got another thread locked. Be a good sport and stop so this one doesn't get locked as well. Please. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You're in Ukraine. The majority of Russia's entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are "not pushing for a war" is irrelevant. Are you "pushing" for resistance and defiance? Are you "pushing" back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It's a direct argument against the claims being made. Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. That's no argument. It's the truth in describing the path this argument has taken. What argument? You already got another thread locked. Be a good sport and stop so this one doesn't get locked as well. Please. It’s certainly going to get interesting here when the shooting starts.  I think the tolerance for Russian talking points will wane. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:45:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: It’s certainly going to get interesting here when the shooting starts. I think the tolerance for Russian talking points will wane. I don't believe much what the US government says anymore, don't watch MSM or RT, so get most of my news from YouTube clips and here. Sorry that I don't know or care what these "Russian talking points" are. I'm no Bagdad Bob so I will keep updates from my perspective/location until things cool down or I'm unable. Look at it this way, if things go very bad (as some here are dreaming about) then you won't be hearing from me again. I think many folks will be disappointed if nothing happens and this turns into an empty cliff hanger. I'm that guy that likes to go outside and watch the tornadoes so no telling what I'll do if things pop off. Guess I'll break out my mini drone and have some fun. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:49:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I don't believe much what the US government says anymore, don't watch MSM or RT, so get most of my news from YouTube clips and here. Sorry that I don't know or care what these "Russian talking points" are. I'm no Bagdad Bob so I will keep updates from my perspective/location until things cool down or I'm unable. Look at it this way, if things go very bad (as some here are dreaming about) then you won't be hearing from me again. I think many folks will be disappointed if nothing happens and this turns into an empty cliff hanger. I'm that guy that likes to go outside and watch the tornadoes so no telling what I'll do if things pop off. Guess I'll break out my mini drone and have some fun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: It’s certainly going to get interesting here when the shooting starts. I think the tolerance for Russian talking points will wane. I don't believe much what the US government says anymore, don't watch MSM or RT, so get most of my news from YouTube clips and here. Sorry that I don't know or care what these "Russian talking points" are. I'm no Bagdad Bob so I will keep updates from my perspective/location until things cool down or I'm unable. Look at it this way, if things go very bad (as some here are dreaming about) then you won't be hearing from me again. I think many folks will be disappointed if nothing happens and this turns into an empty cliff hanger. I'm that guy that likes to go outside and watch the tornadoes so no telling what I'll do if things pop off. Guess I'll break out my mini drone and have some fun. I think everyone will appreciate a perspective from on the ground. |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:56:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 6:00:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: It's certainly going to get interesting here when the shooting starts. I think the tolerance for Russian talking points will wane. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By rca2222: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By wtfboombrb: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Seems more likely that Putin would like the cut of your jib. Might even offer you a job in his communications department of his occupation force. You're a fool to think that I'm PRO RUSSIAN. Just because I'm not pushing for a war and am telling you what I'm seeing here doesn't make me a mouthpiece of Putin. You're in Ukraine. The majority of Russia's entire ground force is massed across the border from you. Without exception, EVERY indicator points towards a Putin intention to invade and conquer Ukraine. Your insistence that YOU are "not pushing for a war" is irrelevant. Are you "pushing" for resistance and defiance? Are you "pushing" back, at all? Sounds more like your pushing excuses that favor the Russian perspective. You quack and waddle, but insist you are not a duck. That's no argument. It's a direct argument against the claims being made. Both of you are swinging purses at this point, nothing more. That's no argument. It's the truth in describing the path this argument has taken. What argument? You already got another thread locked. Be a good sport and stop so this one doesn't get locked as well. Please. It's certainly going to get interesting here when the shooting starts. I think the tolerance for Russian talking points will wane. If it happens perspectives will certainly change, crow will be eaten, and some of our Ukraine accounts will go silent for all the wrong reasons. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 6:06:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: You're reading comprehension is still bad. The UIA was an ineffective force that didn't do much of anything with their limited and small attack tactics. Why did they give up in the 50s instead of keeping on the fight until the USSR collapse? Also, I said WESTERN UKRAINE. The locals didn't lose any of their family members during the Holodomor since they were under Polish control so they don't have the horrible stories to retell but they do honor this day. Those in the East were very happy to tell me how miserable things were. Again, the mentalities from Eastern/Western Ukrainians are different. So, when was the last time you visited? Where did you visit? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? You're reading comprehension is still bad. The UIA was an ineffective force that didn't do much of anything with their limited and small attack tactics. Why did they give up in the 50s instead of keeping on the fight until the USSR collapse? Also, I said WESTERN UKRAINE. The locals didn't lose any of their family members during the Holodomor since they were under Polish control so they don't have the horrible stories to retell but they do honor this day. Those in the East were very happy to tell me how miserable things were. Again, the mentalities from Eastern/Western Ukrainians are different. So, when was the last time you visited? Where did you visit? You mean Galicia? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 6:40:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Finslayer83]
[#12]
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Posted: 2/6/2022 6:51:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blessed33: Not to be a buzzkill, but the government opened up firearms to its population so it can survive. They did not do it to preserve liberty and freedom, they did it to preserve themselves. Once the threat is over, the rights will be over. The purpose of citizens having arms is NOT to protect the state, but to protect liberty and freedom. This is what made our founders so different then most governments. They were concerned about preserving the state, but more so concerned with preserving the ideas of individual liberty. I would be thrilled if Russia did not invade, and the citizens got to keep and bear their arms. I just don't see that happening. It has been legal to own MSRs and "high cap" magazines in Ukraine for decades. Can't say the same for CA, MA, NY, etc... Suppressors are pretty much an accessory. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Ukrainian-Govt-Approves-Loosening-Firearms-Restrictions-for-Citizens/5-2524114/?page=1 |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 6:55:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BerettaGuy]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Not true. The handguns which are legal shoot hard rubber bullets out of cartridges which are "off caliber" so real bullets cannot be chambered. You can get a permit to carry a rubber bullet gun or tear gas gun. Last week the government approved carrying and possessing of all small arms BUT these are only for those in the territorial defense/home guard. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 7:14:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
During the initial invasion into Crimea and Donbas, Russia denied their existence, and then treated their dead and wounded (and their families) like garbage. I wonder if we’ll see that again. We did in Syria. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 7:20:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: You're reading comprehension is still bad. The UIA was an ineffective force that didn't do much of anything with their limited and small attack tactics. Why did they give up in the 50s instead of keeping on the fight until the USSR collapse? Also, I said WESTERN UKRAINE. The locals didn't lose any of their family members during the Holodomor since they were under Polish control so they don't have the horrible stories to retell but they do honor this day. Those in the East were very happy to tell me how miserable things were. Again, the mentalities from Eastern/Western Ukrainians are different. So, when was the last time you visited? Where did you visit? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? You're reading comprehension is still bad. The UIA was an ineffective force that didn't do much of anything with their limited and small attack tactics. Why did they give up in the 50s instead of keeping on the fight until the USSR collapse? Also, I said WESTERN UKRAINE. The locals didn't lose any of their family members during the Holodomor since they were under Polish control so they don't have the horrible stories to retell but they do honor this day. Those in the East were very happy to tell me how miserable things were. Again, the mentalities from Eastern/Western Ukrainians are different. So, when was the last time you visited? Where did you visit? My family IS from western Ukraine and I still have family there AND many families who were under Polish occupation like mine had relatives east who went through the Holodomor. Lviv Univeristy and Ukrainian organizations are some of the staunchest promoters of this genocide and here is one documentary produced on it: "Harvest of Despair" -Russian Communist Genocide of Ukraine (YouTube has it as well but you must sign in and confirm age.) Also, regarding the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) effectiveness, I have read four books on the subject and studied the history since the 1970s along with first hand accounts from my grandparents. A friend of mine has been touring Ukraine (Kyiv, Lviv, and other cities since December 23rd) promoting the book about his mother who was fighter in UPA. The interested parties here can watch these two documentaries about them and make up their own mind: Thе Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part ONE  Th? Ukrainian Insurgent Army - Chronicles 1942-1954 (PART ONE) | release 2014 Thе Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part TWO  Th? Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part TWO As far as why didn't they didn't keep fighting, it is because they were eventually defeated which you seem to be overly happy to spotlight (which no Ukrainian would ever do). At least they were not afraid of cold showers... |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/6/2022 7:22:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Not true. The handguns which are legal shoot hard rubber bullets out of cartridges which are "off caliber" so real bullets cannot be chambered. Yiu can get a permit to carry a rubber bullet gun or tear gas gun. Last week the government approved carrying and possessing of all small arms BUT these are only for those in the territorial defense/home guard. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Not true. The handguns which are legal shoot hard rubber bullets out of cartridges which are "off caliber" so real bullets cannot be chambered. Yiu can get a permit to carry a rubber bullet gun or tear gas gun. Last week the government approved carrying and possessing of all small arms BUT these are only for those in the territorial defense/home guard. I just looked it up. You are right about the cartridges.....they are less than lethal handguns you can carry.  |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2022 7:25:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CTAC]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: @Tboy @Tboy I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. Edited. I see you have no plans on staying. Disregard nothing to see here! |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 7:26:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
Tadeusz Giczan @TadeuszGiczan · 8h On Lithuania’s decision to stop the transit of Belarusian potash: "It's a tough situation [for Belarus]. Lithuania could end up in a bad way. Period. They made a mistake starting it. No America and no Europe would help them". Potash will be their Japanese oil? 
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Posted: 2/6/2022 7:32:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BerettaGuy]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: You're reading comprehension is still bad. The UIA was an ineffective force that didn't do much of anything with their limited and small attack tactics. Why did they give up in the 50s instead of keeping on the fight until the USSR collapse? Also, I said WESTERN UKRAINE. The locals didn't lose any of their family members during the Holodomor since they were under Polish control so they don't have the horrible stories to retell but they do honor this day. Those in the East were very happy to tell me how miserable things were. Again, the mentalities from Eastern/Western Ukrainians are different. So, when was the last time you visited? Where did you visit? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: HOLY. CRAP. The Ukrainian Insurgent Army operated into the 1950s. Holodomor is not a big deal to Ukrainians??? Are you insane??? You're reading comprehension is still bad. The UIA was an ineffective force that didn't do much of anything with their limited and small attack tactics. Why did they give up in the 50s instead of keeping on the fight until the USSR collapse? Also, I said WESTERN UKRAINE. The locals didn't lose any of their family members during the Holodomor since they were under Polish control so they don't have the horrible stories to retell but they do honor this day. Those in the East were very happy to tell me how miserable things were. Again, the mentalities from Eastern/Western Ukrainians are different. So, when was the last time you visited? Where did you visit? As I stated on several threads that you read already, my mother and grandparents were born in Ukraine and escaped during WWII, I learned to speak Ukrainian by the time I was 3, I read Ukrainian Cyrillic by the time I was 5, I went to Ukrainian parochial grade school for 8 years, was involved in many Ukrainian organizations based in the USA, studied the history since the 1970s, and worked with Ukrainian officials stationed at their embassy in DC when I worked in the defense industry. I have not been to Ukraine - I had trips planned twice but one was canceled first due to Yanukovich's election, and later due to a business project falling through. My family IS from western Ukraine and I still have family there AND many families who were under Polish occupation like mine had relatives east who went through the Holodomor. Lviv Univeristy and Ukrainian organizations in the western part of Ukraine are some of the staunchest promoters of this genocide history and here is one documentary produced on it: "Harvest of Despair" -Russian Communist Genocide of Ukraine (YouTube has it as well but you must sign in and confirm age.) Also, regarding the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) effectiveness, I have read four books on the subject and studied the history since the 1970s along with first hand accounts from my grandparents. A friend of mine has been touring Ukraine (Kyiv, Lviv, at collages and government and other cities since December 23rd) promoting the book about his mother who was fighter in UPA. (He is also an official translator of Ukrainian for the US government.) The interested parties here can watch these two documentaries about UPA and make up their own mind: Thе Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part ONE Th? Ukrainian Insurgent Army - Chronicles 1942-1954 (PART ONE) | release 2014 Thе Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part TWO Th? Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part TWO As far as why didn't they didn't keep fighting, it is because they were eventually defeated which you seem to be overly happy to spotlight (which no Ukrainian would ever do). |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2022 7:40:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Well I'm seeing different attitudes here to the east. Despite language, many here would fight (so they say). We are used to occasional cold showers and are a more robust bunch over here. While most don't want a fight the reality is we are preparing for it. . I’m interested to know; from you or anyone else from Ukraine; when you say “preparing for, what does that look like? What are the preps? I’d have to think that if I(an American) we’re in your shoes I’d be stocking up on essentials, kit would be ready to go in a moments notice and would be working my tail off with like minded, trust worthy neighbors to setup comms and would be having multiple displacements of said gear. Wait….that been happening since March of 2021 in every state in the Union? So….what’s it look like to prepare for this? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 8:09:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTAC: I’m interested to know; from you or anyone else from Ukraine; when you say “preparing for, what does that look like? What are the preps? I’d have to think that if I(an American) we’re in your shoes I’d be stocking up on essentials, kit would be ready to go in a moments notice and would be working my tail off with like minded, trust worthy neighbors to setup comms and would be having multiple displacements of said gear. Wait….that been happening since March of 2021 in every state in the Union? So….what’s it look like to prepare for this? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTAC: Originally Posted By Easterner: Well I'm seeing different attitudes here to the east. Despite language, many here would fight (so they say). We are used to occasional cold showers and are a more robust bunch over here. While most don't want a fight the reality is we are preparing for it. . I’m interested to know; from you or anyone else from Ukraine; when you say “preparing for, what does that look like? What are the preps? I’d have to think that if I(an American) we’re in your shoes I’d be stocking up on essentials, kit would be ready to go in a moments notice and would be working my tail off with like minded, trust worthy neighbors to setup comms and would be having multiple displacements of said gear. Wait….that been happening since March of 2021 in every state in the Union? So….what’s it look like to prepare for this? Here is some information: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Ukrainian-Govt-Approves-Loosening-Firearms-Restrictions-for-Citizens/5-2524114/?page=1 |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 8:17:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BerettaGuy]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: I just looked it up. You are right about the cartridges.....they are less than lethal handguns you can carry. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Not true. The handguns which are legal shoot hard rubber bullets out of cartridges which are "off caliber" so real bullets cannot be chambered. Yiu can get a permit to carry a rubber bullet gun or tear gas gun. Last week the government approved carrying and possessing of all small arms BUT these are only for those in the territorial defense/home guard. I just looked it up. You are right about the cartridges.....they are less than lethal handguns you can carry. Well, you can own MSRs and if you are in the in the Territorial Forces /Home Guard you can posses handguns issued to you (but you have to wait 5 years as you know). Since you are an American, the citizenship issue has changed slightly for now as before there was no dual citizenship. You can apply to get Ukrainian citizenship and you dont have to give up US citizenship like before BUT when you are in Ukraine, the Ukrainian government will consider you to be only Ukrainian. This way, you can legally go to a gun shop and buy an AR or whatever you want. If the new dual citizenship law passes, then it will be like having dual citizenship as an American as it is in any country - both are recognized. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2022 8:18:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: During the initial invasion into Crimea and Donbas, Russia denied their existence, and then treated their dead and wounded (and their families) like garbage. I wonder if we’ll see that again. We did in Syria. Well, dead Russians are garbage, as are live Russians, so? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 8:30:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colklink: Well, dead Russians are garbage, as are live Russians, so? 
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Posted: 2/6/2022 8:42:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colklink: Well, dead Russians are garbage, as are live Russians, so? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: During the initial invasion into Crimea and Donbas, Russia denied their existence, and then treated their dead and wounded (and their families) like garbage. I wonder if we’ll see that again. We did in Syria. Well, dead Russians are garbage, as are live Russians, so? That is correct. Drunken pig-people, destined for a landfill. I learned this by observing how Putin treats them. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 1:26:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Handguns firing rubber bullets are allowed and everyone tells me that they can't get regular pistols (must get permits first??) but I'm trying to get in with the shooting clubs to see if they have handgun competitions. The guy I bought my apartment from a few years ago put the large wad of money inside his jacket so I asked if he was afraid of being robbed. He just smiled, patted his chest, and said he's always carrying large sums of money. I got the immediate impression that the guy was connected. I have run into guys that claim to have various types of guns hidden away but refuse to elaborate what they have. I guess I could see in the next few days/weeks/months/years. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 1:34:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: If it happens perspectives will certainly change, crow will be eaten, and some of our Ukraine accounts will go silent for all the wrong reasons. Curious if the same if nothing happens. I find it comical that I'm being challenged on what I'm saying because I'm not ethnic enough and don't speak the various languages. I hope everything cools off and things blow over but expect Putin to walk away with a "win" by gaining various concessions. Ukraine will be the ultimate loser here, especially because I think that other powers (that don't care about UA) will do the negotiating on their behalf. Either way, the average Ukrainian will go on, living their daily life, hating whatever government is in power, wanting to leave the country for a better place. It's a crap shoot but I came into this knowing full well what can/will happen here. Hence the reason I picked Western Ukraine! |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 1:35:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By skid2041: You mean Galicia? You know some of the history. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 1:38:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: During the initial invasion into Crimea and Donbas, Russia denied their existence, and then treated their dead and wounded (and their families) like garbage. I wonder if we’ll see that again. We did in Syria. Putin has pretty much admitted Russia's existence in Ukraine so there's no walking back now. It has always bothered me that the world gave him a pass while ignoring the obvious. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 1:43:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tboy]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: My family IS from western Ukraine and I still have family there AND many families who were under Polish occupation like mine had relatives east who went through the Holodomor. Lviv Univeristy and Ukrainian organizations are some of the staunchest promoters of this genocide and here is one documentary produced on it: "Harvest of Despair" -Russian Communist Genocide of Ukraine (YouTube has it as well but you must sign in and confirm age.) Also, regarding the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) effectiveness, I have read four books on the subject and studied the history since the 1970s along with first hand accounts from my grandparents. A friend of mine has been touring Ukraine (Kyiv, Lviv, and other cities since December 23rd) promoting the book about his mother who was fighter in UPA. The interested parties here can watch these two documentaries about them and make up their own mind: Thе Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part ONE  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXYyY6lBeUMThе Ukrainian Insurgent Army Chronicles 1942-1954. Part TWO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXw32fbqnqEAs far as why didn't they didn't keep fighting, it is because they were eventually defeated which you seem to be overly happy to spotlight (which no Ukrainian would ever do). At least they were not afraid of cold showers... You enjoy pushing Ukrainian history and telling me about friends and family but you've NEVER BEEN TO UKRAINE so please don't lecture me what I see and hear on the streets every day. You have nothing here unlike me so you have nothing to lose but your "heritage". When are you getting on a flight to come defend your homeland?? |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 1:46:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tboy]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTAC: Edited. I see you have no plans on staying. Disregard nothing to see here! I'm not sure what you were going to say but my home is Lviv. I live here and plan to stay unless I am kicked out of the country so I'm following all the gun laws in place (I do have enough knives to arm a small gang though). I will seriously consider traveling around/going back to Texas if I lose my hot showers but will return. I'm not afraid of a fight. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2022 1:53:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CTAC]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I'm not sure what you were going to say but my home is Lviv. I live here and plan to stay unless I am kicked out of the country so I'm following all the gun laws in place (I do have enough knives to arm a small gang though). I will seriously consider traveling around/going back to Texas if I lose my hot showers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By CTAC: Edited. I see you have no plans on staying. Disregard nothing to see here! I'm not sure what you were going to say but my home is Lviv. I live here and plan to stay unless I am kicked out of the country so I'm following all the gun laws in place (I do have enough knives to arm a small gang though). I will seriously consider traveling around/going back to Texas if I lose my hot showers. Yeah don’t read into it. I was going to say that if you were planning on staying it would be in your best interest to get yours hands on something that throws some lead. You made comment about having access to firearms but afraid of laws. The way I see it, if this goes sideways those laws will get you killed. I hope your right I’m hoping this blows over but if your wrong…history is filled with people that had the same mindset that waited too long then became sheep then became dead. I feel for Ukrainians that have that dilemma but at the end of the day it’s each individuals job to keep themselves safe. When governments fail at that they fail miserably. Editing- as I re-read my posts I can see how I’ve been accused of not being American; typing English; but for the record I’m on my phone on here and typically don’t post. Thus the post count. Can’t type as fast as my mind thinks with this damned thing |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 2:03:14 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTAC: Yeah don’t read into it. I was going to say that if you were planning on staying it would be in your best interest to get yours hands on something that throws some lead. You made comment about having access to firearms but afraid of laws. The way I see it, if this goes sideways those laws will get you killed. I hope your right I’m hoping this blows over but if your wrong…history is filled with people that had the same mindset that waited too long then became sheep then became dead. I feel Ukrainians that have that mindset but at the end of the day it’s each individuals job to keep themselves safe. When governments fail at that they fail miserably. I have a friend that claims to work with individuals in the intelligence/military/oligarch communities so knows how corrupt that they are and claims to have access to whatever I want/need. I'm hearing things that I'm not going to relay for obvious reasons. I can walk into the local gun store and buy some soft body armor but opted out since it only protects against handgun rounds which I highly doubt I would encounter due to handgun availability. I'm currently in the process of obtaining my permanent residence so all this activity is definitely concerning me and I'm trying to keep my head down and nose clean. |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/7/2022 3:42:59 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Well, you can own MSRs and if you are in the in the Territorial Forces /Home Guard you can posses handguns issued to you (but you have to wait 5 years as you know). Since you are an American, the citizenship issue has changed slightly for now as before there was no dual citizenship. You can apply to get Ukrainian citizenship and you dont have to give up US citizenship like before BUT when you are in Ukraine, the Ukrainian government will consider you to be only Ukrainian. This way, you can legally go to a gun shop and buy an AR or whatever you want. If the new dual citizenship law passes, then it will be like having dual citizenship as an American as it is in any country - both are recognized. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Not true. The handguns which are legal shoot hard rubber bullets out of cartridges which are "off caliber" so real bullets cannot be chambered. Yiu can get a permit to carry a rubber bullet gun or tear gas gun. Last week the government approved carrying and possessing of all small arms BUT these are only for those in the territorial defense/home guard. I just looked it up. You are right about the cartridges.....they are less than lethal handguns you can carry. Well, you can own MSRs and if you are in the in the Territorial Forces /Home Guard you can posses handguns issued to you (but you have to wait 5 years as you know). Since you are an American, the citizenship issue has changed slightly for now as before there was no dual citizenship. You can apply to get Ukrainian citizenship and you dont have to give up US citizenship like before BUT when you are in Ukraine, the Ukrainian government will consider you to be only Ukrainian. This way, you can legally go to a gun shop and buy an AR or whatever you want. If the new dual citizenship law passes, then it will be like having dual citizenship as an American as it is in any country - both are recognized. From what we have been reading, I could get citizenship now. If you are married to a Ukrainian citizen for two years in a row you can apply for citizenship. You need to take a Ukrainian language test from what I can tell but the kicker is that they ask you to relinquish your other citizenship. We still have not heard anything new about the proposed law, where you can legally be a dual citizen. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 7:56:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTAC: I’m interested to know; from you or anyone else from Ukraine; when you say “preparing for, what does that look like? What are the preps? I’d have to think that if I(an American) we’re in your shoes I’d be stocking up on essentials, kit would be ready to go in a moments notice and would be working my tail off with like minded, trust worthy neighbors to setup comms and would be having multiple displacements of said gear. Wait….that been happening since March of 2021 in every state in the Union? So….what’s it look like to prepare for this? As an American I am limited on defensive means, but in a worse case options are "available". I've concentrated on my cold weather gear in both everyday clothing and camouflage. I have everything essential in a go bag: documents, navigation gear, emergency lighting/lamps, basic tools, first aid, hand crank charger, small radio, means to cook. I am very knowledgeable about my city as I usually walk 10-20 kilometers a day when I have the time. At home we are stocked up on food, canned goods, water, alternative means to cook and have lights. The car is always fueled up, medicines we use are stocked, first aid kit. We also have a plan where to meet if something happens while we are all apart. The house is surrounded by a nice perimeter wall and locking gates. The dogs are happy to bark at people walking by when outside. We also have my apartment which will serve as a back up place to live, and store additional food and gear. I had a renter lined up but decided I would rather have it free at a moments notice. I didn't want to have to kick someone out if things go sideways or we evacuated. I am watching lots of news, and coming here to see what is happening from different perspectives. I fall in the grey area of volunteering. Too old for active military, and not enough time here for the reserves. I contacted the 130rd Battalion about volunteering and didn't even get a response. So now I can concentrate in watching my 3 women. Mama is worried the most, my wife is 50/50, and the daughter hasn't said much. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 8:17:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Curious if the same if nothing happens. I find it comical that I'm being challenged on what I'm saying because I'm not ethnic enough and don't speak the various languages. I hope everything cools off and things blow over but expect Putin to walk away with a "win" by gaining various concessions. Ukraine will be the ultimate loser here, especially because I think that other powers (that don't care about UA) will do the negotiating on their behalf. Either way, the average Ukrainian will go on, living their daily life, hating whatever government is in power, wanting to leave the country for a better place. It's a crap shoot but I came into this knowing full well what can/will happen here. Hence the reason I picked Western Ukraine! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By rca2222: If it happens perspectives will certainly change, crow will be eaten, and some of our Ukraine accounts will go silent for all the wrong reasons. Curious if the same if nothing happens. I find it comical that I'm being challenged on what I'm saying because I'm not ethnic enough and don't speak the various languages. I hope everything cools off and things blow over but expect Putin to walk away with a "win" by gaining various concessions. Ukraine will be the ultimate loser here, especially because I think that other powers (that don't care about UA) will do the negotiating on their behalf. Either way, the average Ukrainian will go on, living their daily life, hating whatever government is in power, wanting to leave the country for a better place. It's a crap shoot but I came into this knowing full well what can/will happen here. Hence the reason I picked Western Ukraine! My uninformed, not on the ground, no expertise, gut feeling based opinion is that this will end with concessions that are not in Ukraine's best interest. Biden will declare that he stared Corn Putin down, the rest of the world will realize that we're punks, and the global power realignment will accelerate. But I certainly could be wrong. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 8:23:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: My uninformed, not on the ground, no expertise, gut feeling based opinion is that this will end with concessions that are not in Ukraine's best interest. Biden will declare that he stared Corn Putin down, the rest of the world will realize that we're punks, and the global power realignment will accelerate. But I certainly could be wrong. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By rca2222: If it happens perspectives will certainly change, crow will be eaten, and some of our Ukraine accounts will go silent for all the wrong reasons. Curious if the same if nothing happens. I find it comical that I'm being challenged on what I'm saying because I'm not ethnic enough and don't speak the various languages. I hope everything cools off and things blow over but expect Putin to walk away with a "win" by gaining various concessions. Ukraine will be the ultimate loser here, especially because I think that other powers (that don't care about UA) will do the negotiating on their behalf. Either way, the average Ukrainian will go on, living their daily life, hating whatever government is in power, wanting to leave the country for a better place. It's a crap shoot but I came into this knowing full well what can/will happen here. Hence the reason I picked Western Ukraine! My uninformed, not on the ground, no expertise, gut feeling based opinion is that this will end with concessions that are not in Ukraine's best interest. Biden will declare that he stared Corn Putin down, the rest of the world will realize that we're punks, and the global power realignment will accelerate. But I certainly could be wrong. Of the list of Putin demands, which ones do you think NATO and the US will offer as a concession? Keeping in mind the cost/benefit, Putin has deployed the MAJORITY of all the Russian ground forces, to the Ukraine border. Also, the fact that you aren’t “on the ground” makes your opinion about Putin’s intent or the purpose and disposition of Russian forces no less valid. Quite the opposite. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 8:51:01 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Of the list of Putin demands, which ones do you think NATO and the US will offer as a concession? Keeping in mind the cost/benefit, Putin has deployed the MAJORITY of all the Russian ground forces, to the Ukraine border. Also, the fact that you aren't "on the ground" makes your opinion about Putin's intent no less valid. Quite the opposite. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: Originally Posted By rca2222: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By rca2222: If it happens perspectives will certainly change, crow will be eaten, and some of our Ukraine accounts will go silent for all the wrong reasons. Curious if the same if nothing happens. I find it comical that I'm being challenged on what I'm saying because I'm not ethnic enough and don't speak the various languages. I hope everything cools off and things blow over but expect Putin to walk away with a "win" by gaining various concessions. Ukraine will be the ultimate loser here, especially because I think that other powers (that don't care about UA) will do the negotiating on their behalf. Either way, the average Ukrainian will go on, living their daily life, hating whatever government is in power, wanting to leave the country for a better place. It's a crap shoot but I came into this knowing full well what can/will happen here. Hence the reason I picked Western Ukraine! My uninformed, not on the ground, no expertise, gut feeling based opinion is that this will end with concessions that are not in Ukraine's best interest. Biden will declare that he stared Corn Putin down, the rest of the world will realize that we're punks, and the global power realignment will accelerate. But I certainly could be wrong. Of the list of Putin demands, which ones do you think NATO and the US will offer as a concession? Keeping in mind the cost/benefit, Putin has deployed the MAJORITY of all the Russian ground forces, to the Ukraine border. Also, the fact that you aren't "on the ground" makes your opinion about Putin's intent no less valid. Quite the opposite. I just wanted to be clear that I claim no subject matter expertise. Macron is supposed to be meeting with Putin today, and like Biden he's looking for a political win with an eye toward coming elections. It wouldn't surprise me if they came up with a plan to put an extended timeline on consideration for NATO membership, something like ten years or more before it can even be proposed. Western powers may also pressure Ukraine to reopen the water supply to Crimea. Maybe they'll create a buffer zone around the occupied regions. Putin knows perfectly well that his demands are never going to be granted, but those possibilities would let him save face and also allow the NATO issue to be the next guy's problem. He declares his exercise a success, sends to troops home, and commences anew the work to install a puppet in Kiev. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2022 9:59:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: As an American I am limited on defensive means, but in a worse case options are "available". I've concentrated on my cold weather gear in both everyday clothing and camouflage. I have everything essential in a go bag: documents, navigation gear, emergency lighting/lamps, basic tools, first aid, hand crank charger, small radio, means to cook. I am very knowledgeable about my city as I usually walk 10-20 kilometers a day when I have the time. At home we are stocked up on food, canned goods, water, alternative means to cook and have lights. The car is always fueled up, medicines we use are stocked, first aid kit. We also have a plan where to meet if something happens while we are all apart. The house is surrounded by a nice perimeter wall and locking gates. The dogs are happy to bark at people walking by when outside. We also have my apartment which will serve as a back up place to live, and store additional food and gear. I had a renter lined up but decided I would rather have it free at a moments notice. I didn't want to have to kick someone out if things go sideways or we evacuated. I am watching lots of news, and coming here to see what is happening from different perspectives. I fall in the grey area of volunteering. Too old for active military, and not enough time here for the reserves. I contacted the 130rd Battalion about volunteering and didn't even get a response. So now I can concentrate in watching my 3 women. Mama is worried the most, my wife is 50/50, and the daughter hasn't said much. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: Originally Posted By CTAC: I’m interested to know; from you or anyone else from Ukraine; when you say “preparing for, what does that look like? What are the preps? I’d have to think that if I(an American) we’re in your shoes I’d be stocking up on essentials, kit would be ready to go in a moments notice and would be working my tail off with like minded, trust worthy neighbors to setup comms and would be having multiple displacements of said gear. Wait….that been happening since March of 2021 in every state in the Union? So….what’s it look like to prepare for this? As an American I am limited on defensive means, but in a worse case options are "available". I've concentrated on my cold weather gear in both everyday clothing and camouflage. I have everything essential in a go bag: documents, navigation gear, emergency lighting/lamps, basic tools, first aid, hand crank charger, small radio, means to cook. I am very knowledgeable about my city as I usually walk 10-20 kilometers a day when I have the time. At home we are stocked up on food, canned goods, water, alternative means to cook and have lights. The car is always fueled up, medicines we use are stocked, first aid kit. We also have a plan where to meet if something happens while we are all apart. The house is surrounded by a nice perimeter wall and locking gates. The dogs are happy to bark at people walking by when outside. We also have my apartment which will serve as a back up place to live, and store additional food and gear. I had a renter lined up but decided I would rather have it free at a moments notice. I didn't want to have to kick someone out if things go sideways or we evacuated. I am watching lots of news, and coming here to see what is happening from different perspectives. I fall in the grey area of volunteering. Too old for active military, and not enough time here for the reserves. I contacted the 130rd Battalion about volunteering and didn't even get a response. So now I can concentrate in watching my 3 women. Mama is worried the most, my wife is 50/50, and the daughter hasn't said much. Tip my hat to you sir. You seem to have a solid grasp on your situation and the mindset to make a good run at the worst should the worst present itself. Said the car has gas- you have a bug out plan if it’s needed? |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 11:07:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: From what we have been reading, I could get citizenship now. If you are married to a Ukrainian citizen for two years in a row you can apply for citizenship. You need to take a Ukrainian language test from what I can tell but the kicker is that they ask you to relinquish your other citizenship. We still have not heard anything new about the proposed law, where you can legally be a dual citizen. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Not true. The handguns which are legal shoot hard rubber bullets out of cartridges which are "off caliber" so real bullets cannot be chambered. Yiu can get a permit to carry a rubber bullet gun or tear gas gun. Last week the government approved carrying and possessing of all small arms BUT these are only for those in the territorial defense/home guard. I just looked it up. You are right about the cartridges.....they are less than lethal handguns you can carry. Well, you can own MSRs and if you are in the in the Territorial Forces /Home Guard you can posses handguns issued to you (but you have to wait 5 years as you know). Since you are an American, the citizenship issue has changed slightly for now as before there was no dual citizenship. You can apply to get Ukrainian citizenship and you dont have to give up US citizenship like before BUT when you are in Ukraine, the Ukrainian government will consider you to be only Ukrainian. This way, you can legally go to a gun shop and buy an AR or whatever you want. If the new dual citizenship law passes, then it will be like having dual citizenship as an American as it is in any country - both are recognized. From what we have been reading, I could get citizenship now. If you are married to a Ukrainian citizen for two years in a row you can apply for citizenship. You need to take a Ukrainian language test from what I can tell but the kicker is that they ask you to relinquish your other citizenship. We still have not heard anything new about the proposed law, where you can legally be a dual citizen. That is what has changed so look into it. They used to say you had to give it up, now they do not BUT the Ukrainian government will only consider you to be Ukrainian so you could apply now. Here is the information on the proposed dual citizenship: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/zelensky-proposes-to-introduce-dual-citizenship-to-ukrainians-abroad.html |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 11:14:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Easterner]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CTAC: Tip my hat to you sir. You seem to have a solid grasp on your situation and the mindset to make a good run at the worst should the worst present itself. Said the car has gas- you have a bug out plan if it’s needed? The problem always seems to be the stubborn elderly. As of now the plan is to stay put. We can't bug out of the country with Momma. We don't even know where the problems would be within the country. Last year home was on the coast of the Azov Sea in Berdyansk. So at least we moved Westward away from an area that seems an obvious target. I have suggested several times to get the required documents in order. You can guess no one wants to leave her behind. As stated by Tboy, some Ukrainians have an issue with taking charge, and doing what is needed. So our plans revolve around staying together as a group. I can't legally join the reserves, so I have to be the man of the house. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:00:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: I just wanted to be clear that I claim no subject matter expertise. Macron is supposed to be meeting with Putin today, and like Biden he's looking for a political win with an eye toward coming elections. It wouldn't surprise me if they came up with a plan to put an extended timeline on consideration for NATO membership, something like ten years or more before it can even be proposed. Western powers may also pressure Ukraine to reopen the water supply to Crimea. Maybe they'll create a buffer zone around the occupied regions. Putin knows perfectly well that his demands are never going to be granted, but those possibilities would let him save face and also allow the NATO issue to be the next guy's problem. He declares his exercise a success, sends to troops home, and commences anew the work to install a puppet in Kiev. What many Americans have missed out on is that Russian forces have been occupying parts of Ukraine for 8 years. I highly doubt he will abandon Crimea but instead use this tactic to try to legitimize Russian control. Many Ukrainians that I have talked with aren't big fans of that area because it is mostly ethnically Russians but the vast majority agree that this is Ukrainian territory that Russia has no rights to. Curious how this will end up but I'm leaning that Russia will have a net gain unfortunately. But it would be bitter sweet if Poland took Kaliningrad if hostilities started. This would eliminate NATO's fear of the Suwalki Gap. One can only dream... |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:05:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easterner: The problem always seems to be the stubborn elderly. As of now the plan is to stay put. We can't bug out of the country with Momma. We don't even know where the problems would be within the country. Last year home was on the coast of the Azov Sea in Berdyansk. So at least we moved Westward away from an area that seems an obvious target. I have suggested several times to get the required documents in order. You can guess no one wants to leave her behind. As stated by Tboy, some Ukrainians have an issue with taking charge, and doing what is needed. So our plans revolve around staying together as a group. I can't legally join the reserves, so I have to be the man of the house. I understand your frustration. I just shake my head at members here that have NEVER BEEN TO UKRAINE tell us how it actually works here. Ukrainians can be an odd bunch, with minds like children, but you still gotta love them. Dealing with the mindset of 3 generations must be wild. Glad you have an exit plan. One thing you didn't mention was $$$$ which I hope you have in case you need to start bribing and buying essentials. |
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UKR
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:06:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: That is what has changed so look into it. They used to say you had to give it up, now they do not BUT the Ukrainian government will only consider you to be Ukrainian so you could apply now. Here is the information on the proposed dual citizenship: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/zelensky-proposes-to-introduce-dual-citizenship-to-ukrainians-abroad.html Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By WildBill375: Originally Posted By Tboy: Originally Posted By glocktalk: @Tboy @Tboy since the gov. has eased the restrictions on firearms show us your stash to defend the motherland against the communist Citizens must get permits to own rifles & shotguns but are forbidden from owning handguns (that don't shoot rubber bullets) and then they are heavily restricted on use. Recent law was passed for these weapons to be allowed to be used/carried by members in the militia. The government doesn't like it's own soldiers carrying guns outside the hot zones from what I've understood but I could be wrong. With that said, I have only had a legal residency here for 1.5 years so need another 3.5 years to qualify to join their militia in which they "might" give me a gun to use. Otherwise I am not allowed to personally own a firearm. I have been offered the opportunity to buy illegal firearms from certain government authorities but I don't want to risk my permanent residency by getting arrested. I'll just quietly watch from the sidelines until/if things kick off in my area and then I'll be more worried about the locals trying to rob me than any Russian soldier shooting me. My biggest concern now is the potential for a panic exodus (which it will be) if Russia rolls into Kiev. I am near various country borders and could get out by car but I need to first make sure those that I care about back East will be safe. My mother is freaking out and wasn't very happy when I told her that I had enough money to "buy my safety". I think my life is worth about $500 so I'm good. Of course, all that could easily change if I lose my hot shower and then I'll be very tempted to drive over to Montenegro and hang out with another American. I'll be renewing my car insurance tomorrow so it will be interesting to see what they have to say about potential damage waivers. Handguns are legal. They even have concealed carry permits here. They are a bitch to get, but do exist. Not true. The handguns which are legal shoot hard rubber bullets out of cartridges which are "off caliber" so real bullets cannot be chambered. Yiu can get a permit to carry a rubber bullet gun or tear gas gun. Last week the government approved carrying and possessing of all small arms BUT these are only for those in the territorial defense/home guard. I just looked it up. You are right about the cartridges.....they are less than lethal handguns you can carry. Well, you can own MSRs and if you are in the in the Territorial Forces /Home Guard you can posses handguns issued to you (but you have to wait 5 years as you know). Since you are an American, the citizenship issue has changed slightly for now as before there was no dual citizenship. You can apply to get Ukrainian citizenship and you dont have to give up US citizenship like before BUT when you are in Ukraine, the Ukrainian government will consider you to be only Ukrainian. This way, you can legally go to a gun shop and buy an AR or whatever you want. If the new dual citizenship law passes, then it will be like having dual citizenship as an American as it is in any country - both are recognized. From what we have been reading, I could get citizenship now. If you are married to a Ukrainian citizen for two years in a row you can apply for citizenship. You need to take a Ukrainian language test from what I can tell but the kicker is that they ask you to relinquish your other citizenship. We still have not heard anything new about the proposed law, where you can legally be a dual citizen. That is what has changed so look into it. They used to say you had to give it up, now they do not BUT the Ukrainian government will only consider you to be Ukrainian so you could apply now. Here is the information on the proposed dual citizenship: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/zelensky-proposes-to-introduce-dual-citizenship-to-ukrainians-abroad.html You and I already touched on this. It currently is just proposed, there's nothing on the books yet. My mother-in-law reads laws for a living and we've been monitoring this. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:15:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I don't believe much what the US government says anymore, don't watch MSM or RT, so get most of my news from YouTube clips and here. Sorry that I don't know or care what these "Russian talking points" are. I'm no Bagdad Bob so I will keep updates from my perspective/location until things cool down or I'm unable. Look at it this way, if things go very bad (as some here are dreaming about) then you won't be hearing from me again. I think many folks will be disappointed if nothing happens and this turns into an empty cliff hanger. I'm that guy that likes to go outside and watch the tornadoes so no telling what I'll do if things pop off. Guess I'll break out my mini drone and have some fun. Yes sir, I think the majority of us here know MSM, RT and other major news outlets are not accurate, we also understand this administration has an integrity issue. If they lie/mislead us they will definitely lie/mislead a foreign country. If there is anything we can do here in USA for the Ukrainian people, this is a good platform to ask as you will reaching out to the "right" crowd. God bless. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:25:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cincinnatus]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I just shake my head at members here that have NEVER BEEN TO UKRAINE tell us how it actually works here. Keep in mind, that being "on the ground in Ukraine" or being born in Ukraine, or having family in Ukraine, or having the ability to read a certain language, IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER gives anyone an advantage in assessing the intentions of Russia and Putin. All we have to go on are the "reports" and images that help paint a picture of what and how the Russian forces are arrayed. There is a MASSIVE campaign of propaganda and misinformation taking place, so words have very little meaning at this point. Do you agree? |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:28:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pinkmist: Yes sir, I think the majority of us here know MSM, RT and other major news outlets are not accurate, we also understand this administration has an integrity issue. If they lie/mislead us they will definitely lie/mislead a foreign country. If there is anything we can do here in USA for the Ukrainian people, this is a good platform to ask as you will reaching out to the "right" crowd. God bless. I don't know current situation in the East so others here might be best to answer. Best to monitor what happens and if it becomes a humanitarian situation with mass influx of refugees and an economic collapse. Pray for peace. |
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Posted: 2/7/2022 12:30:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tboy: I understand your frustration. I just shake my head at members here that have NEVER BEEN TO UKRAINE tell us how it actually works here. Ukrainians can be an odd bunch, with minds like children, but you still gotta love them. Dealing with the mindset of 3 generations must be wild. Glad you have an exit plan. One thing you didn't mention was $$$$ which I hope you have in case you need to start bribing and buying essentials. $$$ LOL Я не хочу говорю на деньги! I am in charge of the finances. My woman understands this when she wants to. I have the means to move them around, or stay put depending on the situation. Yes 3 generations is quite the handful. Momma feeds me like I am always starving. The wife wants me to be in control, but also wants to be in control. The daughter watches and learns. Usually just worries about being a young woman and enjoying life. I still love this crazy bunch. I have to say I spoil all three of them within reason. It's sad to see us all worrying about this. In the end they just want a normal life like most people in the world. |
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