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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:08:44 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: It doesn't help that most western news outlets and basic communication with the outside world is monitored, restricted or both. Listening to the Russian propaganda channels should enlighten anyone concerned, about how the general population has been brainwashed. It also proves people can be manipulated into believing almost anything. I don't necessarily agree with you. Nobody's forcing an average Russian to listen to official propaganda and nobody has been imprisoned for perusing Western news sites, through a VPN or otherwise. Those who choose to be ignorant can blame only themselves for their ignorance. They are the Russian version of what late Rush Limbaugh called low information voters. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:15:01 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By governmentman: I'm increasingly convinced that NATO is playing the long game, and boiling the That sounds nice in theory, but there's a very good chance that the GOP house causes Ukraine aid to drop off a cliff once the current allocated funds run out. If they don't get any additional capabilities soon, I doubt they'll ever get them. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:18:10 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: You're not alone on that. I'd love nothing more than to see Ukraine retake Crimea, but I don't think it's feasible militarily. Taking out the Kerch Bridge would hurt the Russians, but it wouldn't make it impossible to resupply Crimea. As it stands, just breaking the land bridge to Crimea is going to be difficult enough for Ukraine, let alone assaulting Crimea itself with ground forces. Sure, allowing the Russians to retain control of Crimea isn't great, and it might encourage further aggression in the future, but I think that can be mitigated through Ukraine getting into NATO and stacking long range munitions as deep as possible post-war. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:19:55 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Factory rebuilt, tons of spare parts and ammo, training, fuel, transportation. This is the price for the whole package. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Yeah, ensuing from the cost of 165 million Euros for the 14 tanks, they will be completely rebuilt. https://www.defensie.nl/actueel/nieuws/2023/04/20/nederland-koopt-leopard-2-tanks-voor-oekraine Dutch article. BTW, Spain has another 20 Leopards in storage:   https://www.stern.de/digital/technik/leopard-2-panzer-fuer-kiew-aus-spanien---darum-scheitert-der-deal-32597368.html German article. 165 million euros to rebuild 20 tanks? Am I missing something? Factory rebuilt, tons of spare parts and ammo, training, fuel, transportation. This is the price for the whole package. The US turns an M1A1 into an M1A2 SEP V3 for $4m or less. I can’t imagine spares, training and ammunition adding $8m to that. For that price they should be 2A7s at the end and then some. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:20:44 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By meistermash: Seems like another way to repurpose a cheap113. There is a nice hatch on top of the troop compartment and a square drone vertical launch system designed. Like a modular cassette just dropped in. Still be enough room for a couple of operators. Also, we might see the reinvention of the multiple turret tank out of all this. A main gun and auxiliary anti drone turret. AbramsX displayed a 30mm gun for counter UAS and as I understand it other countries are looking at the same. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:21:07 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Wiki has the unit cost associated with them. Is breaking them down then rebuilding more expensive then just building from scratch? No. It takes more time but costs less money. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:21:46 PM EST
[#7]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:24:47 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Targets can be found and ID's from something like an "AWACS" drone and feed the data to the various ground units. The tank, APC, "drone carrier" or whatever that is in the best position to engage will send a drone, which will be autonomous and seek out it's assigned target... I think that armor will still be necessary to have any chance if an enemy drone hits. But this depends on electronic (and other) countermeasures that are developed. At least it will force the drones to be "bigger" to carry a charge enough to take out something with armor. And small arms and shell frag will still be a threat, at least for a while. It's possible that tanks go the way of the battleship. Both need to be in visual range of the enemy to attack by lobbing projectiles. Sounds very primitive today. The battleship was negated by air power launched from carriers that simply out ranged them. Think of the best WWII battleship, which has a max range of what 25 miles in a war against a modern missile cruiser that has 1000+ mile range!! This all feels like being an observer of WWI where tanks and planes first appeared. GMLRS costs 25x what a tank round costs. Switchblade costs 10x as much and would be less effective against at fortifications even with a blast/frag warhead. Artillery requires close coordination and airspace deconfliction, drones are slow and give the enemy extra minutes—sometimes an half hour!—to do to you as they please while you wait. Airpower including fires is not a replacement for tanks. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:25:49 PM EST
[#9]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:26:04 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhereg: I don't know who would control them but from what I'm seeing in this war something is going to have to do the anti drone role. Maybe hand it over to an AI or someone farther back who has time. Just because you launch it doesn't mean you have to control it. The controller could be in a APC with them. Launchers for defensive drones would make sense to me. And an eye in the sky for recon on occasion could save a lot of lives. ADA assets will have to be moved up to the front like in the Cold War. Something like a 35-50-57 and some missiles on an Abrams, Bradley or OMFV chassis. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:27:24 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuPXYAnXoAEOYPF?format=jpg&name=medium |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:28:07 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: This came up a few years ago. In the GWOT, you have to worry about bad guys disengaging from the friendlies and getting separation before CAS showed up. If four MRAPs were going out, one on the back with a UAV to scan for enemy and maintain eyes on it would have been a good idea. If I had four tanks maneuvering and I wanted a UAV to scan for ATGMs, that would be a good idea, but I cant see four tanks going anywhere far from a company CP or a bradley platoon. Its on eof those things you have to experiment with. It takes a couple guys to see what is going on and plot it, and a leader with judgement to process what is being seen and report it. I think it is a platoon asset or mech company. A 16 man tank platoon loses a tank if someone is using that thing. Realistically, IMHO, a mech team need 2-3 scanning the company front, which to me is a senior NCO and a M113 or humvee. It’s really a mini TOC. I’m guessing either company level or kept at battalion and chopped down as necessary. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:28:30 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: 165 million euros to rebuild 20 tanks? Am I missing something? KMW is expensive and slow. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:28:36 PM EST
[#14]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:29:45 PM EST
[#15]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:30:08 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:32:31 PM EST
[#17]
I wish that instead of piecemealing tanks they had standardized on something and backfilled contributing nations.
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:33:34 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ILfreedom: I would not assume Nato support for Ukraine will end. From Nato's perspective they are destroying Russia's capability to wage war on them at a relatively low cost. No Nato infrastructure is being destroyed and no Nato soldier is dying. There is no cheaper way to wage war against a historical enemy than what is transpiring in Ukraine right now. Actually, it would be cheaper to nuke Russia, apparently that's off the table. Russian propaganda channels talk about nuking us daily. They are the Kremlin's official mouthpiece, so there is that. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:38:01 PM EST
[#19]
Lets do some math:
There are about 3902 pages in this thread. Each page is 50 posts So 50 X 3902 is 195,100.. So there are about 185,000 dead orcs. so ALMOST every time you post an orc gets his wings...er..barbed pitchfork. Think about that. I believe we should all post more. 
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:39:18 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boedy: I am sure we could quickly have a system RD’d so that every main battle tank could have its own semi autonomous drone, feeding real time video directly back to the commander. The minimal cost versus the benefit of enhanced situational awareness and target identification would be enormous. Those tube lunched drones someone posted would be a good starting point. How about a GE M134 minigun with close range radar for tracking incoming drones on every tank for air defense? |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:40:19 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Lets do some math: There are about 3902 pages in this thread. Each page is 50 posts So 50 X 3902 is 195,100.. So there are about 185,000 dead orcs. so ALMOST every time you post an orc gets his wings...er..barbed pitchfork. Think about that. I believe we should all post more.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:45:12 PM EST
[#22]
Washington Post writing about Kremlin work to foment Russian support and NATO opposition in Germany. Any Germany experts want to comment? @Zhukov?
BERLIN — When 13,000 demonstrators gathered at the Brandenburg Gate on Feb. 25 to call for an end to weapons supplies to Ukraine, the protest was led by Sahra Wagenknecht, a member of parliament for Germany’s far-left Die Linke party and a firebrand with national ambitions. Wagenknecht decried the prospect that German tanks, soon to be delivered to Ukraine, could once again be used to shoot at “Russian women and men.”
“We don’t want Germany to be drawn deeper into this war,” she said, as she called for the creation of a new peace movement and condemned the bloodshed in Ukraine, without mentioning Russia’s invasion. Among the crowd in Berlin was Jürgen Elsässer, editor of a far-right-wing magazine, and dozens of members of the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) party who cheered Wagenknecht’s calls to cut off Ukraine. Elsässer’s Compact magazine had recently declared on its cover that Wagenknecht was: “The best chancellor — a candidate for the left and the right.” The coming together of political opposites in Berlin under the banner of peace had been percolating for months, though the union remains ad hoc and unofficial. But marrying Germany’s extremes is an explicit Kremlin goal and was first proposed by senior officials in Moscow in early September, according to a trove of sensitive Russian documents largely dated from July to November that were obtained by a European intelligence service and reviewed by The Washington Post. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:47:57 PM EST
[#23]
 ''Ukraine will join NATO'' says NATO''s secretary general Jens Stoltenberg |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:49:39 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Lets do some math: There are about 3902 pages in this thread. Each page is 50 posts So 50 X 3902 is 195,100.. So there are about 185,000 dead orcs. so ALMOST every time you post an orc gets his wings...er..barbed pitchfork. Think about that. I believe we should all post more.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:51:48 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuPXYAnXoAEOYPF?format=jpg&name=medium Amazing how many of those designs used in the rc world a decade ago are in use in wartime environments. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:52:07 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Lets do some math: There are about 3902 pages in this thread. Each page is 50 posts So 50 X 3902 is 195,100.. So there are about 185,000 dead orcs. so ALMOST every time you post an orc gets his wings...er..barbed pitchfork. Think about that. I believe we should all post more. Ok 
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:55:37 PM EST
[#27]
@Easterner, possible incoming.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 12:56:23 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I wish that instead of piecemealing tanks they had standardized on something and backfilled contributing nations. This was the strategy with the leopards but oops the euros neglected them more than the commies. Likely why Abrahms are getting pushed up. It's going to be challenger and Abrahms leading the charges. Rheinmetal is cooked when it comes to tank production. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:06:16 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Win or Lose, Ukraine’s Big Offensive May Put Biden in a Bind The US wants Kyiv to be successful in its spring push, but not too successful. https://archive.ph/Uv2aj The US strategy in Ukraine is premised on the idea that the war there will end, or dramatically de-escalate, this year. What if it doesn’t? President Joe Biden’s administration has done well in managing that conflict so far. But the longer the war lasts, the harder its politics will be for Biden to manage, and the greater the pressure it will exert on US policy around the globe. Ukraine’s prospects revolve around its much-anticipated spring offensive. The Ukrainians mostly weathered Russia’s desultory winter offensive, even hanging on — barely — to besieged Bakhmut in the east. Now it is Kyiv’s turn to strike. Preparatory operations are underway, as Ukraine softens up Russia’s logistics and probes its defenses. It’s anyone’s guess where the major thrust will come — perhaps in the Donbas, or perhaps, more likely, to the south in a bid to sever Russia’s land bridge to Crimea. Either way, the US hopes that the offensive will, by shifting the course of the war, create a pathway to peace. In public and private, top US officials have articulated the administration’s theory of victory: The idea that a successful, but not too-successful, Ukrainian offensive will lead to a ramping down of the war or even a negotiated settlement. This strategy involves a mix of pessimism and optimism. Pessimism, in that US officials increasingly doubt Ukraine can liberate all territory Russia has occupied since 2014. Optimism, in that Washington hopes Kyiv can reclaim enough territory to make the country economically viable and militarily defensible, while also putting Russian President Vladimir Putin’s military under sufficient strain to make him sue for peace. Which, in turn, will reduce Ukraine’s demands for US assistance, allowing America’s defense industrial base to pivot to other priorities. As Daniel Drezner writes, America is seeking its Goldilocks option. It needs Ukraine to fare well enough that it can negotiate from strength, but not so well that it believes it doesn’t have to negotiate at all. Washington simultaneously needs to convince Putin that he may lose all his gains — and perhaps his hold on power — if the war continues. But it doesn’t want Putin so desperate that he lashes out wildly, or for China to conclude that it must ramp up support for an ally in danger of suffering a crushing defeat. That sweet spot may exist, but finding it won’t be easy. Putin, for his part, has little incentive to play along with US strategy. Yes, his military continues to underwhelm. If Ukraine makes major breakthroughs this spring, it will be because Russian forces bled themselves to death in fruitless winter assaults. But Putin’s theory of victory is that he can outlast Ukraine and its friends, perhaps because America’s attention will eventually be pulled elsewhere. The more Ukraine’s vulnerabilities are revealed, the more Putin’s faith will be strengthened. And the more Washington makes clear how much it needs the war to end, the more likely Putin is to drag it out. The longer the conflict goes, the more vexing Biden’s dilemmas will become. Funding the Ukraine war effort will get harder; those arguing that a stalemated “territorial dispute” simply distracts America from the real threat posed by China will be empowered. Bureaucratic disputes will get sharper as the Pentagon is asked to do too much with too little. The US may face a choice between slashing support for Ukraine and taking steps that Biden has resisted, such as providing Kyiv with cluster munitions and advanced fighter aircraft or invoking the Defense Production Act to stimulate production in the industrial base. So far, Biden’s administration has proceeded as though it can give Ukraine the aid it needs, while preparing adequately for a looming conflict with China, while making only marginal increases to the defense budget. That strategy has always been a gamble. The longer this war goes, the riskier it will be. If Biden wants to win a long fight in Ukraine while reducing the possibility the US might lose in the Pacific, he will have to begin rearming the American military with something like wartime urgency. If he opts not to do that, he may have to decide which geopolitical priority — defeating Russia or deterring China — to sacrifice. Perhaps the Ukraine conflict will end on Washington’s timetable. But Biden needs to start planning now for what will happen if it doesn’t. Good article but can the entire US military/admin be this stupid? If you want it over this year then give UA the long range weapons to enable taking back 100% of its territory. Fence sitters piss off both sides. Compromise is not leadership, it is lazy like a plea deal. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:10:55 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Washington Post writing about Kremlin work to foment Russian support and NATO opposition in Germany. Any Germany experts want to comment? @Zhukov? Russia knows the German people are lukewarm on defending freedom and sovereignty and subject to falling for their games. The US has a not too dissimilar thing happening here unfortunately. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:14:08 PM EST
[#31]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:18:31 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Lets do some math: There are about 3902 pages in this thread. Each page is 50 posts So 50 X 3902 is 195,100.. So there are about 185,000 dead orcs. so ALMOST every time you post an orc gets his wings...er..barbed pitchfork. Think about that. I believe we should all post more. Worth a shitpost, then. Too bad, Ivan. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:25:56 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Good article but can the entire US military/admin be this stupid? If you want it over this year then give UA the long range weapons to enable taking back 100% of its territory. Fence sitters piss off both sides. Compromise is not leadership, it is lazy like a plea deal. Yes, they really are that stupid. We no longer have leadership like Reagan during the Cold War. Can you think of a single Republican politician who would support a major offensive to retake all of Ukraine? Including Trump who wants to end the war in one day? Ukraine better make the best use of whatever they were given for the spring offensive. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:34:00 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Yes, they really are that stupid. We no longer have leadership like Reagan during the Cold War. Can you think of a single Republican politician who would support a major offensive to retake all of Ukraine? Including Trump who wants to end the war in one day? Ukraine better make the best use of whatever they were given for the spring offensive. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:34:08 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: @Easterner, possible incoming. Well poo. I just got home. The air raids have definitely picked up the last few days. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:34:09 PM EST
[#36]
 Battlefield. War in Ukraine #shorts #warinukraine by Kubavskyi |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:48:02 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Washington Post writing about Kremlin work to foment Russian support and NATO opposition in Germany. Any Germany experts want to comment? @Zhukov? Russia knows the German people are lukewarm on defending freedom and sovereignty and subject to falling for their games. Someone else mentioned it already: The AfD (Sort of further right than most Republicans) is the equivalent of the people we see in GD. The fact that they're teaming up with Die Linke (the former East German Communist party) is ridiculous. Thankfully, that represents a pretty small percentage of the German population. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 1:52:06 PM EST
[#38]
Predator video, back on the front.
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:03:14 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Predator video, back on the front.
I notice the lack of grenade pits in these fighting positions. Given the propensity of drones dropping frags in every hole the find id think that would be a priority. Every fox hole i ever dug had one but i just don't see them in the videos. They have time to cut in steps though. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:05:58 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Russia lost its right to lease anything when they attacked Ukraine. Ukraine should be contemplating how much of Russia they want to take in reparations. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ILfreedom: If the Sevastopol naval base is the sticking point, give it or lease it to Russia. Like the US naval base Guantonomo Cuba. But the rest of Crimea must be under Ukrainian military control. Russia could have security within Sevastopol but no armor or artillery. Russia would then be free to play in the Black Sea or Mediterranean as long as they never threatened Ukraine or any Nato country. As soon as they do, sink them all Russia lost its right to lease anything when they attacked Ukraine. Ukraine should be contemplating how much of Russia they want to take in reparations. The #1 lesson the West has to embrace from all of this is: Russia is not trustworthy and any agreement with them is worthless. If we want something like peace then it needs to be done under circumstance in which it is dictated to Russia, not negotiated or based on them complying. Peace will only be realized when Russia no longer has the ability to invade. Short of that it is a matter of time before they violate any agreement. We must stop negotiating with them and instead figure out the best means to force them to submit and remove their offensive capability. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:13:43 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Boedy: I notice the lack of grenade pits in these fighting positions. Given the propensity of drones dropping frags in every hole the find id think that would be a priority. Every fox hole i ever dug had one but i just don't see them in the videos. They have time to cut in steps though. A lot of the footage/pics coming out of this war has taken me back to when I had to move holes from one location to another and the constant improvement. I'm amazed that stuff that is so basic doesn't seem to be in use there. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:15:46 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: How about a GE M134 minigun with close range radar for tracking incoming drones on every tank for air defense? it will probably be something along the lines of a small phalanx. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:23:44 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
From the comments: 
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:24:46 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Yes, that is my opinion. I do not think I'm alone on that. It makes no sense to let the Russians be anywhere on this side of the bridge. Ukraine would be foolish to allow 1 Russian to remain after they take out the bridge. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:30:03 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Someone else mentioned it already: The AfD (Sort of further right than most Republicans) is the equivalent of the people we see in GD. The fact that they're teaming up with Die Linke (the former East German Communist party) is ridiculous. Thankfully, that represents a pretty small percentage of the German population. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Washington Post writing about Kremlin work to foment Russian support and NATO opposition in Germany. Any Germany experts want to comment? @Zhukov? Russia knows the German people are lukewarm on defending freedom and sovereignty and subject to falling for their games. Someone else mentioned it already: The AfD (Sort of further right than most Republicans) is the equivalent of the people we see in GD. The fact that they're teaming up with Die Linke (the former East German Communist party) is ridiculous. Thankfully, that represents a pretty small percentage of the German population. Both parties are getting lots of money from Putin. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:30:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: Boedy]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter: A lot of the footage/pics coming out of this war has taken me back to when I had to move holes from one location to another and the constant improvement. I'm amazed that stuff that is so basic doesn't seem to be in use there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m24shooter: Originally Posted By Boedy: I notice the lack of grenade pits in these fighting positions. Given the propensity of drones dropping frags in every hole the find id think that would be a priority. Every fox hole i ever dug had one but i just don't see them in the videos. They have time to cut in steps though. A lot of the footage/pics coming out of this war has taken me back to when I had to move holes from one location to another and the constant improvement. I'm amazed that stuff that is so basic doesn't seem to be in use there. Lol moving holes, I still remember my first extra duty after a article 15. My first sergeant told me to move that hole over there and I didn’t understand what he was saying, at first. I got good at hole digging that weekend łol |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:33:47 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuPtVp4XwAA8DAl?format=jpg&name=large Juuuust in case we haven't done this yet.
It'd be great if they can start hunting the lancet teams with these. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:38:02 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Yes, they really are that stupid. We no longer have leadership like Reagan during the Cold War. Can you think of a single Republican politician who would support a major offensive to retake all of Ukraine? Including Trump who wants to end the war in one day? Ukraine better make the best use of whatever they were given for the spring offensive. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By strykr: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Good article but can the entire US military/admin be this stupid? If you want it over this year then give UA the long range weapons to enable taking back 100% of its territory. Fence sitters piss off both sides. Compromise is not leadership, it is lazy like a plea deal. Yes, they really are that stupid. We no longer have leadership like Reagan during the Cold War. Can you think of a single Republican politician who would support a major offensive to retake all of Ukraine? Including Trump who wants to end the war in one day? Ukraine better make the best use of whatever they were given for the spring offensive. Yeah, got to agree on the fickle US policy. Several top military leaders repeat that we will support Ukraine to take back every inch. But our deliveries and announcements do not match that talk. It was encouraging to see that Tweet about setting up Abrams repair in Poland for later deliveries. That seems to indicate resolve to support much longer than this year. The ideal situation would be that we are trickling in support for the short term (next 6-9 months) while quietly trading and building up rebuilt equipment and ammo stockpiles for an even larger offensive in the fall or next spring. The question is are we still smart enough to do that, or “Never underestimate how much Jie Biden can fuck up something.” Hopefully Biden has little to do with this decision as he apparently does with anything else. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:39:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#49]
RAMSTEIN 11 "F-16 fighters are a political issue, but we are talking about control of the airspace and now we are focusing on air defense systems," said US General Mark Milley. Other results of "Ramstein-11": • The priority for Ukraine now is ground-based air defense systems to protect against russian missile attacks. • Allies will conduct training for tank crews as well as for air defense operators (Abrams tanks will arrive in Germany in several weeks, where Ukrainian defenders will begin training on them). • About 2500 Ukrainian military personnel are currently undergoing training in Germany, with around 8,000 having already completed it and returned home. • The West has provided Ukraine with over 230 tanks and 1,500 other armored vehicles to equip 9 armored brigades. • Ukraine has received "green light" for cooperation with NATO procurement agency - NSPA. • ❗️Partners and allies are ready to support Ukraine as long as necessary.
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Posted: 4/21/2023 2:42:36 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Both parties are getting lots of money from Putin. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Washington Post writing about Kremlin work to foment Russian support and NATO opposition in Germany. Any Germany experts want to comment? @Zhukov? Russia knows the German people are lukewarm on defending freedom and sovereignty and subject to falling for their games. Someone else mentioned it already: The AfD (Sort of further right than most Republicans) is the equivalent of the people we see in GD. The fact that they're teaming up with Die Linke (the former East German Communist party) is ridiculous. Thankfully, that represents a pretty small percentage of the German population. Both parties are getting lots of money from Putin. I think it's been proven to Eastern Europe without a shadow of a doubt that they can't rely on Western Europe for meaningful security help. Germany and France have proven correct what the Eastern Europeans have suspected for years, which is that European solidarity only matters to them when it serves their interests. It's embarrassing that we had to pressure Germany as hard as we did to sanction Russia, and it's embarrassing that France/Germany will only supply equipment if the US agrees to supply similar stuff, and even then only in smaller numbers. German and French leadership were probably more upset than Putin when Kyiv didn't fall in a matter of days, because it meant they actually had to do something. |
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