User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:12:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jaehaerys]
[#1]
Didn't the Ukrainians say they were working on modifying Harpoons to be used to hit ground targets? I think that the addition of those (assuming they can get them working to a reasonably well standard) would be a nice addition to their long range strike capability. I'm just brainstorming ways they could make up for the lack of ATACMS. Storm Shadows are definitely great, but the UK doesn't have very large stockpiles, so I can't envision the Ukrainians getting a ton.
|
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:14:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Every time he opens his mouth I like him less. Now he's for giving away land to Russia... what a cunt. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By HIPPO: Just putting this here to illustrate how fucked up our political situation is here in the good old US of A. Management needs you to find the difference between these things:
What an imbecile. He'd be president now if he knew how to keep his fucking pie hole shut. :( |
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:17:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm all for sending them to. But I see what those F-16 pilots are saying that the AD is just not survivable enough to be effective. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Originally Posted By wwglen: Originally Posted By AROKIE: I saw an interview not to long ago from retired and active F-16 pilots and they said that the F-16 would not have a chance against the Russian AD in theater, and that the F-16 would be no use to the Ukrainians. There is just not enough F-16's to give them to be effective due to the amount they would lose to try and make them useful. The Migs/fulcrum are doing just about what the F-16 would be able to do. but idk im not a fighter pilot Any you can find "Spec Op" military firearms experts who will tell you that the AR-15 is the same weapon they use over in XXXX and will bounce through the body and blow a man's heart out with a hit to the foot. The F-16 has better radar, better electronic warfare and longer range weapons, so of course it can't even do as much as the Soviet fighters can. That's a comical mischaracterization of what AROKIE's source is saying. Unless you have demonstrable evidence that the survivability of the F-16 in *today's* Air Defense environment is about equal to its force-multiplier effect when attacking Russian forces, I don't think that simply saying it has "better radar/EW/weapons" is justification of itself. That said, I *am* in favor of giving F-16s to Ukraine. I think it would be WISE of them to only use F-16s against the Russian invaders' equipment and assets IN Ukraine's territory (so as to be less vulnerable to Russian AD assets overall), at least in the beginning, though. Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm all for sending them to. But I see what those F-16 pilots are saying that the AD is just not survivable enough to be effective. They might not be survivable in a direct attack against ground targets behind the lines. But they will definitely be more survivable than the Soviet planes they have been flying for over a year. Right now one of the Ukraine Air Force problems is the longer range radar and AA missiles of the newer Russian fighters. The F16 will be able to handle that task as well as SEAD and let their older planes get down and dirty. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:25:38 PM EDT
[#4]
It appears they’ve already undergone budget cuts in the propaganda department
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:27:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: True true Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By Lightning_P38: After China's support for Russia, I doubt Ukraine will be overly eager to join that camp. I don't imagine they will be inviting Iran to the Victory party either. The Ukr inians seem to more a bit more idealistic than us these days. If the Dems here REALLY knew the Ukrainians they’d be against them 1000%. They are based, conservative, hardcore orthodox Christians. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:27:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#6]
Reports say his doctors are waiting for night to give their final diagnoses so they can first see if he glows in the dark. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:29:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: I wonder if he’d be OK with the SW parts of the US with high Spanish speaking populations being given to Mexico? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By HIPPO: Just putting this here to illustrate how fucked up our political situation is here in the good old US of A. Management needs you to find the difference between these things:
What an imbecile. I wonder if he’d be OK with the SW parts of the US with high Spanish speaking populations being given to Mexico?  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:30:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: It appears they’ve already undergone budget cuts in the propaganda department
They keep their ammo spread out in the field to keep from losing it all if the orcs get lucky. I know they do much better in the rear. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:31:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Whoa.
Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/ |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:33:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Whoa. Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/3B9FE349-79CA-4E6C-BFBC-0DA5B3AC75D7-2816928.jpg https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/ Lol. What a shit show if true |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:40:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I agree that Wagner makes money but the money alone is not the reason. They’re trying to expand Russian presence/influence and drive out western presence/influence in areas with resources. Until now, the west has frankly been FAR behind the curve in countering this. Once Wagner’s utility in Ukraine is done I expect they will shift toward overseas direct action, and the west (particularly the French) better have a response in hand. I agree that Wagner would make convenient scapegoats, however this depends on the situation in Russia. If Putin is overthrown and killed by the Army, the Army might be all too happy to scapegoat Prigozhin/Wagner, the FSB, and everyone connected with Putin. If Putin remains in power and bent on continuing the war by any and all means (even after the Russian Army cannot continue) then Wagner is too valuable as an asset for direct attacks on the west. They might toss off someone like Utkin, but Wagner could just be “dissolved” only to reappear as “Brahms.” Yes. I hope their days are numbered. Maybe they will just change their name and claim "under new management" and try to go back to business as usual. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:43:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Whoa. Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/3B9FE349-79CA-4E6C-BFBC-0DA5B3AC75D7-2816928.jpg https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:44:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By centex_SR-15: So far left that 1930s communists are in sight because I’d argue that capitalists and the MIC are interchangeable in context. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0059-2816829.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0060-2816814.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By centex_SR-15: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: It may be contrarianism but it is also a shift left. Just look at the usual accompanying talking points about "muh evil MIC" and "muh endless wars". Those are straight up, hard left talking points heard from the left circa 2001-2008. So far left that 1930s communists are in sight because I’d argue that capitalists and the MIC are interchangeable in context. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0059-2816829.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0060-2816814.jpg You can get that sort of Overton shift when things go to hell, either through war or economy or a combination of both. Socialism sounds real good when the current system is either killing you off or keeping you and your kids hungry. Helps to have an external enemy (Bourgeois, Jews, Royalty, White Supremacists, etc), combine that with a shortage of fucks to give due to the current conditions, and you've got yourself a revolution. But, what comes after is much, much worse. There are some examples of the same conditions leading to better results, the American Revolution being the prime example, but those are the exceptions, never the rule. To make this sort of thing possible though, you've got to move the Overton Window a long way from center, and also break down "Normalcy Bias". Anyone else seeing that in current events, or is it just my tinfoil hat on too tight? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:51:23 PM EDT
[#14]
From from the same company that makes Switchblades. Bigger! 185km range and 13kg payload.
 The Jump 20 drone has a maximum takeoff weight of 97,5 kilograms, a payload weight of 13,6 kilograms, a length of 2,9 meters, and a wingspan of 5,7 meters. The drone can operate for 14 hours in a row, according to Militarnyi. The operational range of the Jump 20 is up to 185 kilometers; it can reach a height of 5,100 meters. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:51:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redman556: Hitler and Stalin were both on the left side of the fruit stand. Using the European model, they fall to the right of a monarchy, so right wing according to that model is correct, but, that model is wrong. It evaluated political leanings in a historical method, with a monarchy in the center. It is not a freedom based model. The correct model, the one that we use in the US ( although less these days ), starts on the right end with no government, total anarchy, and it moves to the left end, total dictatorship. The more power a central government has, the further left it goes. Hitler, with his National Socialist Workers Party, and Stalin were both Socialists, though Stalin's was pure communism, and Hitler's was Facism ( a type of Socialism with privately owned but government controlled businesses). The Overton Window has indeed shifted in this country. JFK couldn't get out of the primaries, maybe not even into them as a democrat today, but he would fit right in with the RINOs, and actually be a tad right of them. Agreed. But few people really understand left .vs right and what they represent. It can be complicated. I think many people inaccurately identify a gov't as left or right by cultural qualities. If a gov't is intolerant of diversity in ethnicities or minorities in general then they consider them "right wing". |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 7:59:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Whoa. Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/3B9FE349-79CA-4E6C-BFBC-0DA5B3AC75D7-2816928.jpg https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/ I’m happily waiting for the Wagner vs Russian troops combat videos as the UAF watches from a distance. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:00:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I think you have valid points but there is always the reaction to consider. The west (and Ukraine) largely dismissed the idea of an actual, all-out invasion because they knew very well that Russia didn’t have the troop numbers necessary to invade. So a large part of the weak and delayed reaction (both in Ukraine and the west). was getting past that mistaken (but professionally correct) belief. Russia was already in a position where it couldn’t win unless it’s totally wrong assumptions about Ukrainian will to exist were actually totally right. But let’s say that Russia doesn’t rely on stupid metaphysical assumptions but is intent on invading anyway. That means a mass mobilization. Now we’re back to the fact that Russia no longer has the organizational capability for mass mobilization. OK, so it’s peacetime and Russia can try to rebuild that system to rapidly recruit, train, and equip enough troops to do the job within a couple of years. Neither the west nor Ukraine could possibly fail to notice this. Ukraine would begin to mobilize. The west would - probably - be shaken out of its lethargy by the reality that expanding Russian capabilities pointed to invasion. Training and supply would probably begin flowing to Ukraine. There would be no semi-surprise attack because everyone would see it coming. Europe might be willing to take harsh steps to deter invasion - like stationing a European brigade north of Kiev. Who knows. Invasion was never a winning play for Eussia. Yeah its a paradox. If they were smart and realized that their 190K (?) troops would not be enough and started mobilizing maybe they also realize it's just not worth it. And all their lies about "this is just another exercise" during the troop buildup would have been more transparently seen as bullshit. Although I doubt the West would have done much more. We didnt even start the sanctions until after the invasion. One thing I am certain of is that if Putin could have seen the result of his invasion, he would have never even spoken another word about Ukraine and forgot his dreams of empire building. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:01:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Whoa. Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/3B9FE349-79CA-4E6C-BFBC-0DA5B3AC75D7-2816928.jpg https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/ He's a dead man walking |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:01:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Agreed. But few people really understand left .vs right and what they represent. It can be complicated. I think many people inaccurately identify a gov't as left or right by cultural qualities. If a gov't is intolerant of diversity in ethnicities or minorities in general then they consider them "right wing". Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Redman556: Hitler and Stalin were both on the left side of the fruit stand. Using the European model, they fall to the right of a monarchy, so right wing according to that model is correct, but, that model is wrong. It evaluated political leanings in a historical method, with a monarchy in the center. It is not a freedom based model. The correct model, the one that we use in the US ( although less these days ), starts on the right end with no government, total anarchy, and it moves to the left end, total dictatorship. The more power a central government has, the further left it goes. Hitler, with his National Socialist Workers Party, and Stalin were both Socialists, though Stalin's was pure communism, and Hitler's was Facism ( a type of Socialism with privately owned but government controlled businesses). The Overton Window has indeed shifted in this country. JFK couldn't get out of the primaries, maybe not even into them as a democrat today, but he would fit right in with the RINOs, and actually be a tad right of them. Agreed. But few people really understand left .vs right and what they represent. It can be complicated. I think many people inaccurately identify a gov't as left or right by cultural qualities. If a gov't is intolerant of diversity in ethnicities or minorities in general then they consider them "right wing". I don't want to derail the thread too much, but how one defines left vs right is kind of subjective. Some have defined it as small vs big government, others have defined it as valuing tradition and hierarchy vs valuing progress and equality, etc. The latter applies more so to Europe, where the right's origins are with those who wanted to uphold the monarchy during the French Revolution. Due to the somewhat subjective nature of it all, I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about left vs right. At this point, I just care about authoritarianism vs liberty. Plus, the American right's response to the Russo-Ukrainian war and a few other subjects have caused me to reexamine my beliefs a bit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:03:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Croak: You can get that sort of Overton shift when things go to hell, either through war or economy or a combination of both. Socialism sounds real good when the current system is either killing you off or keeping you and your kids hungry. Helps to have an external enemy (Bourgeois, Jews, Royalty, White Supremacists, etc), combine that with a shortage of fucks to give due to the current conditions, and you've got yourself a revolution. But, what comes after is much, much worse. There are some examples of the same conditions leading to better results, the American Revolution being the prime example, but those are the exceptions, never the rule. To make this sort of thing possible though, you've got to move the Overton Window a long way from center, and also break down "Normalcy Bias". Anyone else seeing that in current events, or is it just my tinfoil hat on too tight? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Croak: Originally Posted By centex_SR-15: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: It may be contrarianism but it is also a shift left. Just look at the usual accompanying talking points about "muh evil MIC" and "muh endless wars". Those are straight up, hard left talking points heard from the left circa 2001-2008. So far left that 1930s communists are in sight because I’d argue that capitalists and the MIC are interchangeable in context. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0059-2816829.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0060-2816814.jpg You can get that sort of Overton shift when things go to hell, either through war or economy or a combination of both. Socialism sounds real good when the current system is either killing you off or keeping you and your kids hungry. Helps to have an external enemy (Bourgeois, Jews, Royalty, White Supremacists, etc), combine that with a shortage of fucks to give due to the current conditions, and you've got yourself a revolution. But, what comes after is much, much worse. There are some examples of the same conditions leading to better results, the American Revolution being the prime example, but those are the exceptions, never the rule. To make this sort of thing possible though, you've got to move the Overton Window a long way from center, and also break down "Normalcy Bias". Anyone else seeing that in current events, or is it just my tinfoil hat on too tight? Been in the works for 100 years and it's rapidly reaching critical mass, IMHO. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:15:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Whoa. Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/3B9FE349-79CA-4E6C-BFBC-0DA5B3AC75D7-2816928.jpg https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/ Could be disinformation to sow distrust under an already fractured inner-Russian alliance.  But that's crazy if it's true |
|
|
|
MN, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:25:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: China is salivating all over the idea that they can move into Ukraine and make profits from the war after the west spends all of the money to win the war. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver: I get a headache reading the propoganda from both sides. Two things I'd be willing to bet money on regardless of the outcome of the war. This war is going to keep going for a long time, we have years left. And it will take Ukraine decades and trillions of dollars to rebuild all the destroyed cities and infrastructure. Yep, is it going to be us or China that makes all the building deals and close relationships with new rebuilt business eases and gorgeous Ukrainian women. China is salivating all over the idea that they can move into Ukraine and make profits from the war after the west spends all of the money to win the war. They ain't getting into the eu or dare I say NATO if they cut deals with the commies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:27:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Could be disinformation to sow distrust under an already fractured inner-Russian alliance. But that's crazy if it's true It very well may be, and it’s exceptionally well chosen if so. He’s fond of saying “I just do Bakhmut” when people ask him big picture questions he doesn’t want to answer, but the whole time he’s been doing foreign ministry type functions negotiating on behalf of Russia? Yikes. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:28:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: I don't want to derail the thread too much, but how one defines left vs right is kind of subjective. Some have defined it as small vs big government, others have defined it as valuing tradition and hierarchy vs valuing progress and equality, etc. The latter applies more so to Europe, where the right's origins are with those who wanted to uphold the monarchy during the French Revolution. Due to the somewhat subjective nature of it all, I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about left vs right. At this point, I just care about authoritarianism vs liberty. Plus, the American right's response to the Russo-Ukrainian war and a few other subjects have caused me to reexamine my beliefs a bit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Redman556: Hitler and Stalin were both on the left side of the fruit stand. Using the European model, they fall to the right of a monarchy, so right wing according to that model is correct, but, that model is wrong. It evaluated political leanings in a historical method, with a monarchy in the center. It is not a freedom based model. The correct model, the one that we use in the US ( although less these days ), starts on the right end with no government, total anarchy, and it moves to the left end, total dictatorship. The more power a central government has, the further left it goes. Hitler, with his National Socialist Workers Party, and Stalin were both Socialists, though Stalin's was pure communism, and Hitler's was Facism ( a type of Socialism with privately owned but government controlled businesses). The Overton Window has indeed shifted in this country. JFK couldn't get out of the primaries, maybe not even into them as a democrat today, but he would fit right in with the RINOs, and actually be a tad right of them. Agreed. But few people really understand left .vs right and what they represent. It can be complicated. I think many people inaccurately identify a gov't as left or right by cultural qualities. If a gov't is intolerant of diversity in ethnicities or minorities in general then they consider them "right wing". I don't want to derail the thread too much, but how one defines left vs right is kind of subjective. Some have defined it as small vs big government, others have defined it as valuing tradition and hierarchy vs valuing progress and equality, etc. The latter applies more so to Europe, where the right's origins are with those who wanted to uphold the monarchy during the French Revolution. Due to the somewhat subjective nature of it all, I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about left vs right. At this point, I just care about authoritarianism vs liberty. Plus, the American right's response to the Russo-Ukrainian war and a few other subjects have caused me to reexamine my beliefs a bit. No need to reexamine your beliefs, just your associations. |
|
|
|
MN, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:29:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonKey153: suckers. every single one of them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonKey153: Originally Posted By centex_SR-15: So far left that 1930s communists are in sight because I’d argue that capitalists and the MIC are interchangeable in context. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0059-2816829.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/260794/IMG_0060-2816814.jpg suckers. every single one of them. This was the 30's and almost everyone was hurting. Take the great recession and multiply it by about 50. I don't blame some of them because that was a bad time all around. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:30:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Funny, they have a night like this and we don’t spend all day talking about it.
That’s good air defense. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:33:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwHwQ72WIAMUTca?format=jpg&name=small Tit for tat. They blew up russian weapons, because Russia blew up russian weapons. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:35:10 PM EDT
[#28]
 ⏺Erdogan distributes money to children right at the polling station. Since children cannot vote, this is not bribery 🧠 https://t.me/ragnarockkyiv/50877 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:37:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fike]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/1820AC2E-207A-4EF5-BA86-2864FD81B57E-2816985.jpg ⏺Erdogan distributes money to children right at the polling station. Since children cannot vote, this is not bribery 🧠 https://t.me/ragnarockkyiv/50877 I’m skeptical that is a polling station. ETA: I’m about 87% sure those are his grandkids. |
|
|
|
MN, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:40:11 PM EDT
[#30]
So these two massive explosions now this month.
As much as I hate to admit it, this is likely a lot of NATO hardware there. Yeah the Russians probably knew about it but the ukranians probably thought it was safe. These areas were likely used because they met storage requirements for ammo and other stuff. They still have other stuff but probably lost a significant amount. Shit |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:40:26 PM EDT
[#31]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:43:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: Tit for tat. They blew up russian weapons, because Russia blew up russian weapons. How many tons of Russian shells does it take to equal 1:2 or 1:3 ratio cost for stealth cruise missile?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:43:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNGearhead: Tit for tat. They blew up russian weapons, because Russia blew up russian weapons. LOL Wouldn't that be tit for tit?  
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:45:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: No need to reexamine your beliefs, just your associations. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Redman556: Hitler and Stalin were both on the left side of the fruit stand. Using the European model, they fall to the right of a monarchy, so right wing according to that model is correct, but, that model is wrong. It evaluated political leanings in a historical method, with a monarchy in the center. It is not a freedom based model. The correct model, the one that we use in the US ( although less these days ), starts on the right end with no government, total anarchy, and it moves to the left end, total dictatorship. The more power a central government has, the further left it goes. Hitler, with his National Socialist Workers Party, and Stalin were both Socialists, though Stalin's was pure communism, and Hitler's was Facism ( a type of Socialism with privately owned but government controlled businesses). The Overton Window has indeed shifted in this country. JFK couldn't get out of the primaries, maybe not even into them as a democrat today, but he would fit right in with the RINOs, and actually be a tad right of them. Agreed. But few people really understand left .vs right and what they represent. It can be complicated. I think many people inaccurately identify a gov't as left or right by cultural qualities. If a gov't is intolerant of diversity in ethnicities or minorities in general then they consider them "right wing". I don't want to derail the thread too much, but how one defines left vs right is kind of subjective. Some have defined it as small vs big government, others have defined it as valuing tradition and hierarchy vs valuing progress and equality, etc. The latter applies more so to Europe, where the right's origins are with those who wanted to uphold the monarchy during the French Revolution. Due to the somewhat subjective nature of it all, I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about left vs right. At this point, I just care about authoritarianism vs liberty. Plus, the American right's response to the Russo-Ukrainian war and a few other subjects have caused me to reexamine my beliefs a bit. No need to reexamine your beliefs, just your associations. That's a valid distinction. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:46:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: So these two massive explosions now this month. As much as I hate to admit it, this is likely a lot of NATO hardware there. Yeah the Russians probably knew about it but the ukranians probably thought it was safe. These areas were likely used because they met storage requirements for ammo and other stuff. They still have other stuff but probably lost a significant amount. Shit I believe that's unlikely, for reasons previously outlined in this thread. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:50:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: More info on Bakhmut progress. Love seeing that red disappear!!!
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_0820-2816875.jpg I had been thinking that after the massive amount of time, money, blood, and credibility the russian military sunk into Bakhmut for their "eventual victory no matter what" for 8 months, that it would be such a fucking massive humiliating bitch-slap for ukraine to turn around and run over the top of the ground the russians had taken,that, well I figured I shouldn't dare hope for such things. The dirt of bakhmut isn't that valuable militarily. But at this point I might dare hope the ukranians might consider it valuable enough for breaking the will of the russian soldiers fighting on the ground all over Ukraine. And it really might break them. The elites of russia might decide that this is too much disaster, it's time for a change in policy. *fingers crossed for the panicked retreat of russian soldiers in Bakhmut.* |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:51:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I think you have valid points but there is always the reaction to consider. The west (and Ukraine) largely dismissed the idea of an actual, all-out invasion because they knew very well that Russia didn’t have the troop numbers necessary to invade. So a large part of the weak and delayed reaction (both in Ukraine and the west). was getting past that mistaken (but professionally correct) belief. Russia was already in a position where it couldn’t win unless it’s totally wrong assumptions about Ukrainian will to exist were actually totally right. But let’s say that Russia doesn’t rely on stupid metaphysical assumptions but is intent on invading anyway. That means a mass mobilization. Now we’re back to the fact that Russia no longer has the organizational capability for mass mobilization. OK, so it’s peacetime and Russia can try to rebuild that system to rapidly recruit, train, and equip enough troops to do the job within a couple of years. Neither the west nor Ukraine could possibly fail to notice this. Ukraine would begin to mobilize. The west would - probably - be shaken out of its lethargy by the reality that expanding Russian capabilities pointed to invasion. Training and supply would probably begin flowing to Ukraine. There would be no semi-surprise attack because everyone would see it coming. Europe might be willing to take harsh steps to deter invasion - like stationing a European brigade north of Kiev. Who knows. Invasion was never a winning play for Eussia. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Capta: Girkin, Prigozhin, and a lot of other “superpatriots” put out a lot of pie-in-the-sky advice going back to last April - I.E. that full mobilization/“DO YOU WANT TOTAL WAR?” Was always the answer. It was NEVER the answer, both from the perspective of Russian internal realities and from the perspective of the Western reaction. First, as demonstrated pretty conclusively from October 2022 to now, Russia does not have the capability to mobilize, train, equip, and supply a mass army of millions. Even mobilizing 300K men showed that Russia could barely manage to hand them AKs and get them to the front. They didn’t train them and they can’t really supply them. Mobilizing 2 million men would’ve been a disaster of Biblical proportions. Second, Russia picked a fight with a coalition with something like 40 times their GDP. So the objective answer to the question “Do you want total war?” Should be a resounding “FUCK NO.” Russia could never, ever win a production battle with NATO. The whole situation is eerily similar to Japan vs the US in WW2, with likely the same outcome. Third, if, hypothetically, Russia tried to fully mobilize, that would be seen by Europe as an existential threat. The foot-dragging and half-measures that have characterized the European response for much of the last year would go away. Europe (combined with the US) can turn the pain up to 11 on a scale of 1-10 literally any time they want. Storm-shadows supplied in numbers a year ago would’ve done catastrophic damage to the Russian war machine in Ukraine. And that’s only one system. And that doesn’t consider the possibility of direct support like a no-fly zone. Had Russia had proper intel to formulate a workable plan, they had the military and equipment to take the Eastern half of Ukraine Feb. 2022. Maybe even Kiev. Holding it would be another problem though. Also, had they mobilized the 300K earlier AND took the time to train them they probably would have had much more impact. I doubt the big Western players would have done more watching the partial mobilization than they did watching the buildup on the border in late 2021 and early 2022. They may have even done less looking at the Russian success as a "sure thing" which is actually what kept them from sending more aid. Luckily, Russia did everything wrong then repeated the mistakes. They squandered the last remaining manpower and equipment by throwing them into the meatgrinder stupidly. Later, had they left Bahkmut alone and instead trained and equipped, they would have the better part of that 300K AND the equipment now and maybe have a chance against the upcoming UA offensive. Now, it will be nearly impossible to mobilize another 300K not to mention arm them properly. Just like the very interesting GD debates about "Could Germany have won WWII"? we will have interesting discussions about the ways Russia could have possibly "won" in Ukraine. I think it was possible but they would have had to do everything just right instead of doing everything wrong. I think you have valid points but there is always the reaction to consider. The west (and Ukraine) largely dismissed the idea of an actual, all-out invasion because they knew very well that Russia didn’t have the troop numbers necessary to invade. So a large part of the weak and delayed reaction (both in Ukraine and the west). was getting past that mistaken (but professionally correct) belief. Russia was already in a position where it couldn’t win unless it’s totally wrong assumptions about Ukrainian will to exist were actually totally right. But let’s say that Russia doesn’t rely on stupid metaphysical assumptions but is intent on invading anyway. That means a mass mobilization. Now we’re back to the fact that Russia no longer has the organizational capability for mass mobilization. OK, so it’s peacetime and Russia can try to rebuild that system to rapidly recruit, train, and equip enough troops to do the job within a couple of years. Neither the west nor Ukraine could possibly fail to notice this. Ukraine would begin to mobilize. The west would - probably - be shaken out of its lethargy by the reality that expanding Russian capabilities pointed to invasion. Training and supply would probably begin flowing to Ukraine. There would be no semi-surprise attack because everyone would see it coming. Europe might be willing to take harsh steps to deter invasion - like stationing a European brigade north of Kiev. Who knows. Invasion was never a winning play for Eussia. Not to mention the fact that the Ukrainians have one hell of a cadre for upgraded reserve and territorial forces, as well as the means to equip them with relatively modern equipment. I can see Ukraine using the "Swiss Model", with their territorial forces trained for combat and also having a leading role in civil defense, natural disasters and such. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:53:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: I’m happily waiting for the Wagner vs Russian troops combat videos as the UAF watches from a distance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By Prime: Whoa. Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/3B9FE349-79CA-4E6C-BFBC-0DA5B3AC75D7-2816928.jpg https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/ I’m happily waiting for the Wagner vs Russian troops combat videos as the UAF watches from a distance. While Predator sips his tea on the banks of the Don, Wagner and RuAF are still fighting in some forgotten field east of Bakhmut. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:58:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/1820AC2E-207A-4EF5-BA86-2864FD81B57E-2816985.jpg ⏺Erdogan distributes money to children right at the polling station. Since children cannot vote, this is not bribery 🧠 https://t.me/ragnarockkyiv/50877 Like giving to the Clinton Foundation never makes its way into Hillary’s wardrobe or booze cabinet.  That is brassy to hand out cash rolls at the polling station. I expect Stacey Abrams to include this in her next election meddling. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 8:59:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: I’m happily waiting for the Wagner vs Russian troops combat videos as the UAF watches from a distance. Prighozin is not going to be attending any meetings with anybody for any reason anywhere at any time. Nope. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:00:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Whoa. Prigozhin has claimed to have spoken to Zelensky personally on several occasions. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/3B9FE349-79CA-4E6C-BFBC-0DA5B3AC75D7-2816928.jpg https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/05/14/prigozhin-wagner-ukraine-leaked-documents/ Maybe accurate. Maybe a disinfo Op by someone...Although Prigozhin has been desperate to take Bakhmut as fast as possible and maybe save his PMC. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:00:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ServusVeritatis]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: So these two massive explosions now this month. As much as I hate to admit it, this is likely a lot of NATO hardware there. Yeah the Russians probably knew about it but the ukranians probably thought it was safe. These areas were likely used because they met storage requirements for ammo and other stuff. They still have other stuff but probably lost a significant amount. Shit I actually doubt it. That ammo dump has been there since 1949. People ask “why won’t they use EVERYTHING they have”? It’s because some of the bombs or rockets can’t be used on ANY fielded modern system or are dangerously u stable they would kill the weapon operators. Google earth shows the storage and berms there for years. I HIGHLY doubt modern weapons of any significance were stored there. It would be too obvious and dumb (as in I doubt the western “advisors” would let them). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:02:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: If the Dems here REALLY knew the Ukrainians they'd be against them 1000%. They are based, conservative, hardcore orthodox Christians.  It the most baffling thing to me how "conservatives" and Dems are flipped on the issue. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:08:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: I actually doubt it. That ammo dump has been there since 1949. People ask “why won’t they use EVERYTHING they have”? It’s because some of the bombs or rockets can’t be used on ANY fielded modern system or are dangerously u stable they would kill the weapon operators. Google earth shows the storage and berms there for years. I HIGHLY doubt modern weapons of any significance were stored there. It would be too obvious and dumb (as in I doubt the western “advisors” would let them). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By stgdz: So these two massive explosions now this month. As much as I hate to admit it, this is likely a lot of NATO hardware there. Yeah the Russians probably knew about it but the ukranians probably thought it was safe. These areas were likely used because they met storage requirements for ammo and other stuff. They still have other stuff but probably lost a significant amount. Shit I actually doubt it. That ammo dump has been there since 1949. People ask “why won’t they use EVERYTHING they have”? It’s because some of the bombs or rockets can’t be used on ANY fielded modern system or are dangerously u stable they would kill the weapon operators. Google earth shows the storage and berms there for years. I HIGHLY doubt modern weapons of any significance were stored there. It would be too obvious and dumb (as in I doubt the western “advisors” would let them). Yeah…the last two locations they hit show up on ancient Soviet maps…..which is very telling. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:08:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Yesterday
 Today  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:08:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: I don't want to derail the thread too much, but how one defines left vs right is kind of subjective. Some have defined it as small vs big government, others have defined it as valuing tradition and hierarchy vs valuing progress and equality, etc. The latter applies more so to Europe, where the right's origins are with those who wanted to uphold the monarchy during the French Revolution. Due to the somewhat subjective nature of it all, I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about left vs right. At this point, I just care about authoritarianism vs liberty. Plus, the American right's response to the Russo-Ukrainian war and a few other subjects have caused me to reexamine my beliefs a bit. Agreed. Left .vs right is too complex and subjective and too often inaccurate. A much better and modern scale should be from the individual (liberty) vs the collective (authoritarian). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:12:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: That's a valid distinction. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Redman556: Hitler and Stalin were both on the left side of the fruit stand. Using the European model, they fall to the right of a monarchy, so right wing according to that model is correct, but, that model is wrong. It evaluated political leanings in a historical method, with a monarchy in the center. It is not a freedom based model. The correct model, the one that we use in the US ( although less these days ), starts on the right end with no government, total anarchy, and it moves to the left end, total dictatorship. The more power a central government has, the further left it goes. Hitler, with his National Socialist Workers Party, and Stalin were both Socialists, though Stalin's was pure communism, and Hitler's was Facism ( a type of Socialism with privately owned but government controlled businesses). The Overton Window has indeed shifted in this country. JFK couldn't get out of the primaries, maybe not even into them as a democrat today, but he would fit right in with the RINOs, and actually be a tad right of them. Agreed. But few people really understand left .vs right and what they represent. It can be complicated. I think many people inaccurately identify a gov't as left or right by cultural qualities. If a gov't is intolerant of diversity in ethnicities or minorities in general then they consider them "right wing". I don't want to derail the thread too much, but how one defines left vs right is kind of subjective. Some have defined it as small vs big government, others have defined it as valuing tradition and hierarchy vs valuing progress and equality, etc. The latter applies more so to Europe, where the right's origins are with those who wanted to uphold the monarchy during the French Revolution. Due to the somewhat subjective nature of it all, I'm kind of at the point where I don't care about left vs right. At this point, I just care about authoritarianism vs liberty. Plus, the American right's response to the Russo-Ukrainian war and a few other subjects have caused me to reexamine my beliefs a bit. No need to reexamine your beliefs, just your associations. That's a valid distinction. Shit went off the rails around here when we started to have political purity tests. At that point…  Attached File |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:12:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: So these two massive explosions now this month. As much as I hate to admit it, this is likely a lot of NATO hardware there. Yeah the Russians probably knew about it but the ukranians probably thought it was safe. These areas were likely used because they met storage requirements for ammo and other stuff. They still have other stuff but probably lost a significant amount. Shit Plausible. What "old Soviet" ammo is no longer in use yet stored by the 30K ton? Although in Ukraine and ex-Soviet States, who knows...Could be a reason for a delay for the counteroffensive? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:19:58 PM EDT
[#49]
First saw this on Russian TG…
For some reason, an increase in gamma radiation was recorded in Khmelnitsky. Apparently this is somehow connected with the epic gas station explosion the other day. 
|
|
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2023 9:22:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Plausible. What "old Soviet" ammo is no longer in use yet stored by the 30K ton? Although in Ukraine and ex-Soviet States, who knows...Could be a reason for a delay for the counteroffensive? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By stgdz: So these two massive explosions now this month. As much as I hate to admit it, this is likely a lot of NATO hardware there. Yeah the Russians probably knew about it but the ukranians probably thought it was safe. These areas were likely used because they met storage requirements for ammo and other stuff. They still have other stuff but probably lost a significant amount. Shit Plausible. What "old Soviet" ammo is no longer in use yet stored by the 30K ton? Although in Ukraine and ex-Soviet States, who knows...Could be a reason for a delay for the counteroffensive? Have you read about the bombs that were loaded on the USS Forestall before the fire? |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
