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Posted: 8/17/2023 12:40:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: China's objective in Taiwan is the same as Russia's in Ukraine: empire, and the restoration of rule over historical possessions. If Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing at all, China wild still feel as strongly about wanting it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By K0UA:What China wants from Taiwan is not land or natural recourses. What they want is technology and production capability of chips that Taiwan excels at. China makes chips already you say? Yes, but not the complex and newest chips that Taiwan can make. China is behind, and would rather steal than develop on their own. Just like they have stolen thousands of pieces of technology from the US and Europe over the years. China's objective in Taiwan is the same as Russia's in Ukraine: empire, and the restoration of rule over historical possessions. If Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing at all, China wild still feel as strongly about wanting it. Yup, plus Taiwan also is strategically important and the reasons why are apparent if one looks at a map or even reads a summary of a ChiCom white paper. They fought to conquer what was left of the ROC for three decades after taking over the mainland. They took a number of islands including Hainan and were attacking and shelling parts of the ROC such as Quemoy and Matsu. One of my high school teachers was a Marine on an amphibious ship waiting to find out if they were going to have to land to fight the ChiComs back in the late 1950s during one of the crises. Semi-conductors were not a thing back then. It's just one more motivation but it has never been the only one. Geography and what the ChiComs also covet and would be emboldened to take are also big parts of why we should protect the ROC from the PRC, not just semi-conductor manufacturing. ChiComs have long wanted something that resembles Japan's Far East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 12:40:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Russia would be dealing with an insurgency, but I don't think that would result in an independent Ukrainian state returning. The post-1920 resistance nor the post-1944 resistance by the UPA resulted in achieving that aim. Russia is willing to carry out mass acts of violence and depravity that would shock most the world (certainly the developed world). They would simply deport, execute on the spot, or imprison and torture any Ukrainian that they thought wasn't Russified enough. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Consider this: Without the help of the US, Ukraine would go down. I don't think that can be disputed. In the future, I think it will be more and more difficult to push funding through Congress to spend on Ukraine. Unlike the people in this thread, most Americans are in the dark about Russia's imperial ambitions. They only see the money being spent and not getting much in return (keep in mind: perception, not reality). As such, the pressure to stop funding is going to eventually stop us from supporting Ukraine. There's no telling when that will be exactly, but that day will come whether Ukraine is close to kicking the invaders back out or if they're still locked in a stalemate. The terms need defining. Short term UA would go down. Long term they would be a Chechnya with the example of Chechnya, showing what happens when you have a strongman in charge who can be bought. There would be a guerilla war there for a decade at least, with Russia having many of the same problems. The question is whether Europe will pick up the slack before we stop. Seems like that's in the early stages of happening. ETA- also the timeline needs defining, the above is written as a start-to-finish though experiment, not from this point forward. Russia would be dealing with an insurgency, but I don't think that would result in an independent Ukrainian state returning. The post-1920 resistance nor the post-1944 resistance by the UPA resulted in achieving that aim. Russia is willing to carry out mass acts of violence and depravity that would shock most the world (certainly the developed world). They would simply deport, execute on the spot, or imprison and torture any Ukrainian that they thought wasn't Russified enough. I don't think they would be dealing with that much of an insurgency honestly. Due to the slow creep forward of occupation, the vast majority of anti-russians would flee before their advance to keep fighting in 'free Ukraine', similar to what we saw in Bakhmut, where only the pro-russsian people stayed and everyone else fled. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 12:44:26 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: These replacement missiles to be made are the new wireless TOW, with extended range.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3mf0BeXYAAvlQz?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3mf0OoXEAEKaI7?format=jpg&name=small https://i.pinimg.com/originals/34/47/f7/3447f7b4f3108871ae86d1e0392b8a0a.gif Is there any advantage to TOW vs Javelin? |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 12:49:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: You are calling me a coward and saying I want to protect Russia. That is the clear implication in your own words. Number one, that is just silly as you don't know me at all. Number two, if you've paid much attention in this tread, I expect you would see I am pretty aggressive towards Russia. I am just crazy enough to not want nuclear war and think that if things are handled wisely, we can beat the crap out of Russia without it developing into something we would really regret. People who own million dollar yachts are not prone to burning it all down. Some goat fucker with an IQ of 60 I might be a bit worried. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 12:51:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Is there any advantage to TOW vs Javelin? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: These replacement missiles to be made are the new wireless TOW, with extended range.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3mf0BeXYAAvlQz?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3mf0OoXEAEKaI7?format=jpg&name=small https://i.pinimg.com/originals/34/47/f7/3447f7b4f3108871ae86d1e0392b8a0a.gif Is there any advantage to TOW vs Javelin? Wire guided line of sight vs. fire and forget. It just depends. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 12:52:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: I don't think they would be dealing with that much of an insurgency honestly. Due to the slow creep forward of occupation, the vast majority of anti-russians would flee before their advance to keep fighting in 'free Ukraine', similar to what we saw in Bakhmut, where only the pro-russsian people stayed and everyone else fled. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Zhukov: Consider this: Without the help of the US, Ukraine would go down. I don't think that can be disputed. In the future, I think it will be more and more difficult to push funding through Congress to spend on Ukraine. Unlike the people in this thread, most Americans are in the dark about Russia's imperial ambitions. They only see the money being spent and not getting much in return (keep in mind: perception, not reality). As such, the pressure to stop funding is going to eventually stop us from supporting Ukraine. There's no telling when that will be exactly, but that day will come whether Ukraine is close to kicking the invaders back out or if they're still locked in a stalemate. The terms need defining. Short term UA would go down. Long term they would be a Chechnya with the example of Chechnya, showing what happens when you have a strongman in charge who can be bought. There would be a guerilla war there for a decade at least, with Russia having many of the same problems. The question is whether Europe will pick up the slack before we stop. Seems like that's in the early stages of happening. ETA- also the timeline needs defining, the above is written as a start-to-finish though experiment, not from this point forward. Russia would be dealing with an insurgency, but I don't think that would result in an independent Ukrainian state returning. The post-1920 resistance nor the post-1944 resistance by the UPA resulted in achieving that aim. Russia is willing to carry out mass acts of violence and depravity that would shock most the world (certainly the developed world). They would simply deport, execute on the spot, or imprison and torture any Ukrainian that they thought wasn't Russified enough. I don't think they would be dealing with that much of an insurgency honestly. Due to the slow creep forward of occupation, the vast majority of anti-russians would flee before their advance to keep fighting in 'free Ukraine', similar to what we saw in Bakhmut, where only the pro-russsian people stayed and everyone else fled. That is true, and it's why there's relatively limited partisan activity in occupied Ukraine. Before and in the early stages of the war, I expected the Russians to be constantly getting hit with EFPs, sniped, ambushed, etc. in territory they'd taken. While some of that has happened, it hasn't been to nearly the same degree I was expecting. That's because any Ukrainian who wants to kill Russians can easily join the Army, TDF, or volunteer units due to how slowly the Russians have advanced throughout the entirety of the war. The main point I was trying to drive home there is that the only way the existence of a Ukrainian state can be secured is through victory in a conventional war. If we did absolutely nothing and let Russia flounder its way to victory in a conventional war, lots of Ukrainians would have gone full OUN-B and UPA at that point, but I doubt they would've had much more success than their predecessors did post-1944. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 12:57:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vtmarine: All the HE I ever shot was TNT or (more commonly) Composition B. I gather we have gone to something I never heard of that is less sensitive. If filling the backlog is causing the delay, I wonder if it is the new explosive that is causing the delay. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vtmarine: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: I've wondered whether we would see a WW1/ WW2 return to 'bulk filler' cheaper explosives like Amatol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amatol Following the Shell Crisis of 1915 in which the UK did not have enough ordnance due to a lack of explosives, a team at the Royal Arsenal laboratories produced a mixture of ammonium nitrate and TNT, known as Amatol for short. Amatol exploits synergy between TNT and ammonium nitrate. TNT has higher explosive velocity and brisance, but is deficient in oxygen. Oxygen deficiency causes black smoke residue[4] from a pure TNT explosion. The oxygen surplus of ammonium nitrate increases the energy release of TNT during detonation. Depending on the ratio of ingredients used, amatol leaves a residue of white or grey smoke after detonation. Amatol has a lower explosive velocity and correspondingly lower brisance than TNT but is cheaper because of the lower cost of ammonium nitrate. Amatol allowed supplies of TNT to be expanded considerably, with little reduction in the destructive power of the final product, so long as the amount of TNT in the mixture did not fall below 60%. Mixtures containing as little as 20% TNT were for less demanding uses. A derivative of amatol is amatex, consisting of 51% ammonium nitrate, 40% TNT, and 9% RDX (which also has a negative oxygen balance).Ammonite, a form of amatol, is a civil engineering explosive popular in Eastern Europe and China. Generally comprising a 20/80 mixture of TNT and ammonium nitrate it is typically used for quarrying or mining. Because the proportion of TNT is significantly lower than in its military counterpart, ammonite has much less destructive power. In general, a 30 kilogram charge of ammonite is roughly equivalent to 20 kilograms of TNT. It seems this would offer the potential for ramping up HE availability, albeit at some reduction in individual shell effectiveness depending on the ratios used. All the HE I ever shot was TNT or (more commonly) Composition B. I gather we have gone to something I never heard of that is less sensitive. If filling the backlog is causing the delay, I wonder if it is the new explosive that is causing the delay. Yes the newer shells / most new US weapons used 'Insensitive Munitions.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insensitive_munition No idea how this effects production, either US or globally. I do know any Ammonium Nitrate based explosive would greatly expand supply, as the world produces shitloads of it for fertillizer / cold packs / industrial precursors / mining applications. However not sure if shell filling factories can easily swap explosives / use the same tooling for different compounds? |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:00:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote History The anti-Ukraine crowd needs to watch this one, it is excellent. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:02:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Good to see them taking advantage of their night fighting capabilities. The lack of proliferation of night vision among conventional forces is something that's been noted by a number of commentators. Notice how hard it is to find a Photonis tube lately? There’s a reason for that. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:05:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Is there any advantage to TOW vs Javelin? Mostly price. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:10:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: What China wants from Taiwan is not land or natural recourses. What they want is technology and production capability of chips that Taiwan excels at. China makes chips already you say? Yes, but not the complex and newest chips that Taiwan can make. China is behind, and would rather steal than develop on their own. Just like they have stolen thousands of pieces of technology from the US and Europe over the years. So they'd just invade and become managers of the chip plants lol? Things would go back to normal pretty soon, people would show up for work, and they'd start cranking out chips? Seriously? |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:18:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tacosis: So they'd just invade and become managers of the chip plants lol? Things would go back to normal pretty soon, people would show up for work, and they'd start cranking out chips? Seriously? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tacosis: Originally Posted By K0UA: What China wants from Taiwan is not land or natural recourses. What they want is technology and production capability of chips that Taiwan excels at. China makes chips already you say? Yes, but not the complex and newest chips that Taiwan can make. China is behind, and would rather steal than develop on their own. Just like they have stolen thousands of pieces of technology from the US and Europe over the years. So they'd just invade and become managers of the chip plants lol? Things would go back to normal pretty soon, people would show up for work, and they'd start cranking out chips? Seriously? |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:21:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/1zvslystz4-7.gif The anti-Ukraine crowd needs to watch this one, it is excellent. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTLandser: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/1zvslystz4-7.gif The anti-Ukraine crowd needs to watch this one, it is excellent. We've spent a lot of time discussing right wing anti-Ukraine sentiment in this thread, but there's a ton of derp from the far left about this conflict, too. The talking points about respecting Russia's sphere of influence, Azov Nazis, NATO expansionism, etc. from the far left are almost identical to those of the far right. Putin himself may be somewhat ideological (I think he's an outright neo-fascist and wouldn't disagree with the characterization behind closed doors), but Russia is not ideological with who it targets its propaganda at, at least post-Cold War. Idiots on either extreme end of the political spectrum are both fair game. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:21:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: https://open.substack.com/pub/eurasianology/p/nato-joe-bidens-campaign-calculus Interesting Substack article concluding that Biden’s slow walk support is his NSA Jake Sullivan’s deliberate campaign strategy. Author is disgusted at that as lives are being lost. And Jake’s timing may end up sending ATACMS and F-16 too late. It seems predicated on the Rs yielding the Ukraine issue. The smart move would be to get ahead of Biden and shame him mercilessly before Jake allows him toy release those weapons. Seems on point to me. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:24:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: China's objective in Taiwan is the same as Russia's in Ukraine: empire, and the restoration of rule over historical possessions. If Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing at all, China wild still feel as strongly about wanting it. What are you basing this on bc it sounds completely asinine and like utter horseshit. So when they level the island, chip plants and all, you're saying they'll plunk down a commie flag and that'll be the objective? Cuz they took back the land and accomplished and ideological objective? That's simple minded crazy talk. These people, our enemies, are not simple minded stooges. We've made that mistake too long. Bert Purtin and Xi ert chrildrens? Ok Lenny. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:31:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: It is amazing how many people think that nuclear war is not something to even consider in our decision making. I see it as adolescent chest thumping. Easy to do on the internet, harder to do as an adult in real life with real consequences for a miscalculation. I sure won't take the time to repost my bonifides as a hater of Russia and lover of freedom and thus Ukraine. But you clearly are willing to bet millions of lives on Russia acting rationally and never going nuclear. I am not willing to do that. We need to beat them bad, but we need to beat them carefully. IMHO Not sure of the generational difference; but the constant threat of nuclear war was pretty much de rigueuer from 1947 through 1992. You can't live in terror of a bully, or you're going to get bullied. One thing that does concern me is most of the failsafe methods that were in place during the Cold War have been eroded, ignored, and forgotten to the point we are much less able to prevent accidental escalation than we used to be. At the end of a day though, Russia still understands that's a "from hell's heart, I stab at thee" kind of move. We'll survive. They won't. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 1:51:50 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Russians will be jailed for photos and videos of drone attacks The Federation Council proposed to prohibit the dissemination in the media and the Internet of photos and videos of places of shelling, drone attacks and deployment of troops, except for those provided by the Russian Defense Ministry. The corresponding bill was developed by a group of senators from the Committee on Constitutional Legislation and State Construction, head of the committee Andrey Klishas told TASS. According to him, in the conditions of the war with Ukraine, the data published by citizens become a source of information for the enemy. The Armed Forces of Ukraine use photo and video materials to identify the location of military equipment, weapons and ammunition, "as well as any potential combat target." “For example, the moment of launching a ballistic missile, captured on video, allows you to determine the flight path, and therefore, when it hits the final target, it reveals the location of the launcher by mathematical calculation,” the senator explained. https://t.me/moscowtimes_ru/15082 Can they please also ban TikTok posts of rear area posers with goats? Just make a rule that any Russian posting in uniform to TikTok gets sent to the front trench zero position. Please. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 2:04:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tacosis: What are you basing this on bc it sounds completely asinine and like utter horseshit. So when they level the island, chip plants and all, you're saying they'll plunk down a commie flag and that'll be the objective? Cuz they took back the land and accomplished and ideological objective? That's simple minded crazy talk. These people, our enemies, are not simple minded stooges. We've made that mistake too long. Bert Purtin and Xi ert chrildrens? Ok Lenny. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tacosis: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: China's objective in Taiwan is the same as Russia's in Ukraine: empire, and the restoration of rule over historical possessions. If Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing at all, China wild still feel as strongly about wanting it. What are you basing this on bc it sounds completely asinine and like utter horseshit. So when they level the island, chip plants and all, you're saying they'll plunk down a commie flag and that'll be the objective? Cuz they took back the land and accomplished and ideological objective? That's simple minded crazy talk. These people, our enemies, are not simple minded stooges. We've made that mistake too long. Bert Purtin and Xi ert chrildrens? Ok Lenny. Taiwan is unfinished business. Until they take it they cannot say they’ve finished off the Nationalists and ended the Civil War. Xi wants to be the guy who brought about the final Triumph over the Nationalists and completed Mao’s great work. It’s also the guardian of what’s left of Traditional Chinese culture and history. The Reds destroyed the bulk of what they captured, because they are threatened by it. While Taiwan has great strategic value due to its location, and tech they want to have, or at least deny to us…finally winning the War is the #1 reason they want it. Wars have been fought over less, greed and pride are as good as reason as any. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 2:05:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: First, Russia does have an internal logic. Not like ours, but they have thought processes. They are homicidal, but not suicidal. And I really don't think anybody is ignoring Russian nukes, only pointing out that Russia has no basis to use them, even under their own doctrine. There is absolutely nothing about the Ukraine conflict that threatens the existence of the Russian state, and nobody is going to launch on Russia, so they aren't going to launch. Second, I think there's been a wake-up call inside Russian military circles. Having seen how badly their equipment performs, they have to be scared to pop nukes because of reliability issues. They can't launch any limited strike, because they have to believe a large percentage of warheads would fail to deploy, fail to go to target, or fail to detonate. And any nuclear strike would be an act of national suicide. Worse, because of system failures, they know they would be ended, but the rest of the world would survive. And every survivor would slaughter every Russian they found until the entire people group was extinct. That's what Russia faces if they pop nukes: extinction. I agree we need to beat them carefully, but where that line lies is open to debate. I think we can safely push the line farther. Remember, Russian military forces were actively killing US personnel in Korea and Vietnam, and we let them. And we're still not involved in killing Russians, unless they attack us (see Syria). That's a good, safe rule. Let Ukraine fight, but give them the tools they need. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By Birddog15:It is amazing how many people think that nuclear war is not something to even consider in our decision making. I see it as adolescent chest thumping. Easy to do on the internet, harder to do as an adult in real life with real consequences for a miscalculation. I sure won't take the time to repost my bonifides as a hater of Russia and lover of freedom and thus Ukraine. But you clearly are willing to bet millions of lives on Russia acting rationally and never going nuclear. I am not willing to do that. We need to beat them bad, but we need to beat them carefully. IMHO First, Russia does have an internal logic. Not like ours, but they have thought processes. They are homicidal, but not suicidal. And I really don't think anybody is ignoring Russian nukes, only pointing out that Russia has no basis to use them, even under their own doctrine. There is absolutely nothing about the Ukraine conflict that threatens the existence of the Russian state, and nobody is going to launch on Russia, so they aren't going to launch. Second, I think there's been a wake-up call inside Russian military circles. Having seen how badly their equipment performs, they have to be scared to pop nukes because of reliability issues. They can't launch any limited strike, because they have to believe a large percentage of warheads would fail to deploy, fail to go to target, or fail to detonate. And any nuclear strike would be an act of national suicide. Worse, because of system failures, they know they would be ended, but the rest of the world would survive. And every survivor would slaughter every Russian they found until the entire people group was extinct. That's what Russia faces if they pop nukes: extinction. I agree we need to beat them carefully, but where that line lies is open to debate. I think we can safely push the line farther. Remember, Russian military forces were actively killing US personnel in Korea and Vietnam, and we let them. And we're still not involved in killing Russians, unless they attack us (see Syria). That's a good, safe rule. Let Ukraine fight, but give them the tools they need. Spot on. I’d add that it’s become apparent that many of our intelligence, military and diplomatic experts grossly over estimated Russia’s capabilities and have way over reacted to fears of escalation. Even Putin grossly overestimated his own forces. So there definitely is a need for better balance, and right now the scale is overweight with fear and lacking confidence and boldness. Especially anything concerning Ukraine’s defense. Once we restore that boldness of action then I think is the time to assess what constitutes a threat to Russia itself. Shooting down strategic bombers that launch over the Caspian Sea? Perhaps. But striking an airbase where they park? Maybe not. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 2:36:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Probably posted already, but worth watching again. First time, I've seen evasive action attempted by Russian armor against loitering munitions:
This war is just validation that we need to start fitting all our combat armor units with Active Protection Systems like Trophy. The tech has been around for a while now but it seems we're dragging our feet waiting for the "perfect solution" rather than just adopting what's out there now and evolving it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 3:17:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#21]
UA is nailing these Alligators! Looking for more details.
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Posted: 8/17/2023 4:31:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#22]
 Thales Australia donated its latest ACAR assault rifles to the Ukrainian Defense Forces to evaluate their combat capabilities. Preliminary feedback was good, if positive assessments are confirmed, this may lead to an adjustment in military assistance to Ukraine from Australia. https://twitter.com/TreasChest/status/1691954742866428308 |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 4:32:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: UA is nailing these Alligators! Looking for more details.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_3068-2922457.jpg
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Posted: 8/17/2023 4:47:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#24]
"And again about cluster munitions. It's hard for me to understand why we need to manipulate statistics if the response we’re getting for showing off results in collossal, real difficulites. I already wrote about cluster munitions before - https://t.me/shouvalov/20. Basically, nothing has changed, but a lot needs to be added. Information, now in full measure, reached the authorities that everything was not as it seemed in the initial reports. It is impossible not to take into account the factor of modern Western cluster munitions - they shamelessly mow down both fighters at the front (not only at the front) and civilian infrastructure in the rear. Civil infrastructure is a separate topic. Recently, there was an arrival in Tokmak, which terribly slashed trucks and drivers. The Defense Ministry decided not to focus on this, because there was a risk of reciprocal publication of data from the enemy with arguments that the civilian targets were not quite simple and not very civilian. But there were comrades in the camp of military correspondents who unleashed their anger towards the vile NATO members on the heads of readers, and attached videos as proof. This is something the enemy might not have had. And now the enemy can quite boldly show that the goals were legal from a military point of view. And all by our hands... We had to throw all our efforts into blocking the supply of cluster munitions to Ukraine: to declare that we would not use such munitions, to tear apart the Europeans, who have cluster munitions banned. There was a chance. But they played us, we happily fell for it and declared that we had these clusters munitions, whole landfills of them, not just stockpiles. Yes, we have many. You can search for photos. For the most part, it’s an illiquid asset killed by time, the rest - is morally and technically obsolete. And things are not very good with carriers either. Now you can’t roll back the situation, and when you are caught being weak, it’s silly to try and scare them. The General Staff already understands this, but they cannot bring the situation even higher, there is no solution. The guys on the front line are taking the beating, and it's not easy at all. In the context of problems with medicine, wounds from cluster munitions often result in death, and this is a very painful and terrible death. The enemy has learned (yes, imagine, they are also learning!) to cut off the path of reinforcements or withdrawal of forces with artillery, and trenches do not save from cluster munitions. You can’t save yourself with a bandage or a tourniquet, after being hit with cluster munitions you need solid medical care, if you managed to survive. In the trenches, a terrible mess is formed from the living and the dying, who are sometimes completely impossible to help. In such cases, the enemy methodically waits for those of our forces that rush to help their comrades. I saw all this in Chechnya, when a sniper left a wounded man to pull other guys to him. This happened in single occasions, but with cluster munitions, everything is the same, but scaled tens and hundreds of times. We need counter-battery fire, but it is not there. We need a lot of things, but first of all, need to finally admit the problem exists and start solving it, and not throw around the words like “we’re going to smash you!”. It is not some colonel in a hospital bed that is yelling about the cluster munitioins - the voices of hundreds of guys dying in terrible agony in the trenches and the widows of hundreds killed by them in just these couple of weeks are shouting to you about these problems. And I specifically do not specify whether there are really hundreds, or already thousands - we will not please the enemy with statistics. The army needs a solution. The cluster situation is terrible, and worst of all, we try to silence the problem when we need a solution. And this is already beyond the capabilities of individual generals and commanders. We made threats with words, now let's get down to business." |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 4:58:36 AM EDT
[#25]
This video is from St. Petersburg but it is happening all over Russia. Immigrants who moved to Russia for work, many are Syrians and other Middle Easterners, are seen receiving summonses to report for military duty, being loaded onto buses, and taken to the local commissariat (voyenkomat) so they can be processed for service. Russia has been under a full "ghost mobilization" since the beginning of the year but they won't call it a mobilization for domestic political reasons. This is a translation of what the poster, "GREY ZONE", said about the video. He calls them "these people" even though they are Russian citizens which is typical of how Russians perceive ethnic groups -- aka, non-Russians. "And here is a delightful video from St. Petersburg! New citizens of Russia were lucky not only to get a passport of a citizen of our country, but also to be registered for military service, having a chance to prove loyalty to our Fatherland on the battlefield! Just imagine how happy these people are now, even if they look a little confused on the video, but this is from the surprise of such a gift. I hope that they will call all their relatives and friends at home and tell them about the unique action that the Ministry of Internal Affairs is holding for new citizens. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 5:09:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3t_6Y5XkAAHiC8?format=jpg&name=medium
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By RockNwood: UA is nailing these Alligators! Looking for more details.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_3068-2922457.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F3t_6Y5XkAAHiC8?format=jpg&name=medium
 Ka-52 Shot Down This Morning Near Robotyne |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 5:13:49 AM EDT
[#27]
⚡️The situation in the Rabotino area at 11:00 Moscow time⚡️
From the field they report that the battle does not stop and the pressure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine only intensifies. The enemy returned to the original tactics, with which the counteroffensive in this sector began. Massive artillery strikes disassemble the positions of our fighters, leaving them no other option but to roll back to the next line. According to one of the sources, more than a thousand shells fly into the settlement every day. Cassettes, phosphorus, and shrapnel are used - everything that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have on this sector of the front. And if our fighters cope with enemy tanks and other armored vehicles perfectly, then there are problems with counter-battery combat and this has long been no secret to anyone. As mentioned above, the offensive began with a similar artillery preparation, when forty packets of Grad fell into one forest belt, after which the enemy brought infantry and armored vehicles into battle. And given that many sources report the introduction of new Ukrainian reserves in this direction, we can expect another attempt to break through our defense line, followed by access to Tokmok. But despite the huge losses and colossal efforts made by the Ukrainians near Rabotino, there is no breakthrough of the defense line. The heroic actions of our fighters continue to hamper the enemy’s offensive, forcing him to switch from blitzkrieg tactics to a “creeping” offensive, in which hundreds of meters become the most effective advance. https://t.me/wargonzo/14409 |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 5:21:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#28]
An episode of the battles for Urozhayne.
The soldiers of the 137th Marine Battalion offered Katsap to surrender, but he never agreed. After that, a grenade flew in his direction. https://t.me/combatfootageua/5427
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Posted: 8/17/2023 5:25:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#29]
The Wagner Group company was registered in Belarus, its activities are designated as educational services, according to the unified state register of legal entities and individual entrepreneurs of the country.
https://t.me/rsotmdivision/10116 ⚡️The "Azov" brigade resumed tasks at the front. Azov began carrying out combat missions in the Serebryansk forestry district in the Luhansk region. The best 🫡 https://t.me/zsuwar/35914 |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 6:14:57 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 8/17/2023 6:19:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: China's objective in Taiwan is the same as Russia's in Ukraine: empire, and the restoration of rule over historical possessions. If Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing at all, China wild still feel as strongly about wanting it. I don't think Taiwan has been controlled by mainland China since the late 1800's. That being said, it is an unsinkable aircraft carrier. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 6:22:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: First, Russia does have an internal logic. Not like ours, but they have thought processes. They are homicidal, but not suicidal. And I really don't think anybody is ignoring Russian nukes, only pointing out that Russia has no basis to use them, even under their own doctrine. There is absolutely nothing about the Ukraine conflict that threatens the existence of the Russian state, and nobody is going to launch on Russia, so they aren't going to launch. Second, I think there's been a wake-up call inside Russian military circles. Having seen how badly their equipment performs, they have to be scared to pop nukes because of reliability issues. They can't launch any limited strike, because they have to believe a large percentage of warheads would fail to deploy, fail to go to target, or fail to detonate. And any nuclear strike would be an act of national suicide. Worse, because of system failures, they know they would be ended, but the rest of the world would survive. And every survivor would slaughter every Russian they found until the entire people group was extinct. That's what Russia faces if they pop nukes: extinction. I agree we need to beat them carefully, but where that line lies is open to debate. I think we can safely push the line farther. Remember, Russian military forces were actively killing US personnel in Korea and Vietnam, and we let them. And we're still not involved in killing Russians, unless they attack us (see Syria). That's a good, safe rule. Let Ukraine fight, but give them the tools they need. I don't believe for one second that Russia thinks their nukes won't work. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 6:24:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Is there any advantage to TOW vs Javelin? Cost. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 6:35:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: However not sure if shell filling factories can easily swap explosives / use the same tooling for different compounds? They are all melt/pour so I would think filling is the same. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 7:06:28 AM EDT
[#35]
AFU vehicle in a firefight and hit. Gopro inside.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/15tf704/afu_vehicle_hit_in_the_middle_of_battle_video/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1 |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 7:26:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts: Not sure of the generational difference; but the constant threat of nuclear war was pretty much de rigueuer from 1947 through 1992. You can't live in terror of a bully, or you're going to get bullied. One thing that does concern me is most of the failsafe methods that were in place during the Cold War have been eroded, ignored, and forgotten to the point we are much less able to prevent accidental escalation than we used to be. At the end of a day though, Russia still understands that's a "from hell's heart, I stab at thee" kind of move. We'll survive. They won't. Yup, I agree. Many in power over there must know it would be suicide. But what they are doing right now is just a slow motion suicide. They are not acting rationally. Would they be willing to just burn it all down all at once? I doubt it, but it is possible. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 7:30:21 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: I don't think Taiwan has been controlled by mainland China since the late 1800's. That being said, it is an unsinkable aircraft carrier. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: China's objective in Taiwan is the same as Russia's in Ukraine: empire, and the restoration of rule over historical possessions. If Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing at all, China wild still feel as strongly about wanting it. I don't think Taiwan has been controlled by mainland China since the late 1800's. That being said, it is an unsinkable aircraft carrier. Taiwan has never been controlled by the CCP Chinese government at any time in history. Taiwan actually has the oldest chinese govt. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 7:33:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Spot on. I’d add that it’s become apparent that many of our intelligence, military and diplomatic experts grossly over estimated Russia’s capabilities and have way over reacted to fears of escalation. Even Putin grossly overestimated his own forces. So there definitely is a need for better balance, and right now the scale is overweight with fear and lacking confidence and boldness. Especially anything concerning Ukraine’s defense. Once we restore that boldness of action then I think is the time to assess what constitutes a threat to Russia itself. Shooting down strategic bombers that launch over the Caspian Sea? Perhaps. But striking an airbase where they park? Maybe not. Speaking of hitting the bombers where they park. Does anybody else think that is the reason Biden said no to the ATACMS after meeting with Zelenski. I am thinking Biden asked for a guarantee they wouldn't be used against certain targets or using them beyond certain geographical boundaries. Zelensky would not agree to that so Biden said no. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 7:38:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: ⚡️The situation in the Rabotino area at 11:00 Moscow time⚡️ From the field they report that the battle does not stop and the pressure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine only intensifies. The enemy returned to the original tactics, with which the counteroffensive in this sector began. Massive artillery strikes disassemble the positions of our fighters, leaving them no other option but to roll back to the next line. According to one of the sources, more than a thousand shells fly into the settlement every day. Cassettes, phosphorus, and shrapnel are used - everything that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have on this sector of the front. And if our fighters cope with enemy tanks and other armored vehicles perfectly, then there are problems with counter-battery combat and this has long been no secret to anyone. As mentioned above, the offensive began with a similar artillery preparation, when forty packets of Grad fell into one forest belt, after which the enemy brought infantry and armored vehicles into battle. And given that many sources report the introduction of new Ukrainian reserves in this direction, we can expect another attempt to break through our defense line, followed by access to Tokmok. But despite the huge losses and colossal efforts made by the Ukrainians near Rabotino, there is no breakthrough of the defense line. The heroic actions of our fighters continue to hamper the enemy’s offensive, forcing him to switch from blitzkrieg tactics to a “creeping” offensive, in which hundreds of meters become the most effective advance. https://t.me/wargonzo/14409 This appears to be a RF source, how much credibility do they have? |
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USA
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Posted: 8/17/2023 7:43:08 AM EDT
[#40]
ATACMS has nowhere near range to hit bomber bases. If they were operating that close and we handed over ATACMS they would just move back, add 20 minutes to their flight time, and carry on.
We are not supplying them because we don’t have many and can’t build more. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:02:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Is there any advantage to TOW vs Javelin? |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:08:55 AM EDT
[#42]
 Ben Hodges on the Russia - Ukraine war: “We’ll See a Different Situation in a Few Weeks” |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:12:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: Wire guided line of sight vs. fire and forget. It just depends. Well the Jav is man portable while the TOW is not. TOW IIB latest version is wireless like the Jav but not sure if operates on the same principal. TOW has more range I think and packs a bigger warhead iirc. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:15:13 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ad_nauseam: This appears to be a RF source, how much credibility do they have? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ad_nauseam: Originally Posted By Prime: ⚡️The situation in the Rabotino area at 11:00 Moscow time⚡️ From the field they report that the battle does not stop and the pressure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine only intensifies. The enemy returned to the original tactics, with which the counteroffensive in this sector began. Massive artillery strikes disassemble the positions of our fighters, leaving them no other option but to roll back to the next line. According to one of the sources, more than a thousand shells fly into the settlement every day. Cassettes, phosphorus, and shrapnel are used - everything that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have on this sector of the front. And if our fighters cope with enemy tanks and other armored vehicles perfectly, then there are problems with counter-battery combat and this has long been no secret to anyone. As mentioned above, the offensive began with a similar artillery preparation, when forty packets of Grad fell into one forest belt, after which the enemy brought infantry and armored vehicles into battle. And given that many sources report the introduction of new Ukrainian reserves in this direction, we can expect another attempt to break through our defense line, followed by access to Tokmok. But despite the huge losses and colossal efforts made by the Ukrainians near Rabotino, there is no breakthrough of the defense line. The heroic actions of our fighters continue to hamper the enemy’s offensive, forcing him to switch from blitzkrieg tactics to a “creeping” offensive, in which hundreds of meters become the most effective advance. https://t.me/wargonzo/14409 This appears to be a RF source, how much credibility do they have? It depends on what they’re admitting to. When they say “the enemy is really bringing it and we had to fall back”, then that likely confirms what the Ukrainians are saying. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:15:41 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:21:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tacosis: What are you basing this on bc it sounds completely asinine and like utter horseshit. So when they level the island, chip plants and all, you're saying they'll plunk down a commie flag and that'll be the objective? Cuz they took back the land and accomplished and ideological objective? That's simple minded crazy talk. These people, our enemies, are not simple minded stooges. We've made that mistake too long. Bert Purtin and Xi ert chrildrens? Ok Lenny. During the Chinese civil war/ Mao's commie revolution, the Nationalists (supported by the USA) were beaten and fled to Taiwan where they set up a gov't in exile and subsequently a separate country. CCP China has wanted to finish the job ever since. Also Taiwan is essential for CCP control of vital shipping lanes and expand China. Like Russia, China seems themselves ass an empire destined to rule the Asia pacific, if not the world. The chips plants are secondary, more to put the screws to the west since their "battle plan" is to make the world dependent on China. If they capture the chip makers themselves, they could eventually force them to rebuild production but it's NOT about the chips. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:23:44 AM EDT
[#47]
Inside the Russian effort to build 6,000 attack drones with Iran’s help
Leaked documents show that Moscow is progressing toward its goal of mass-producing UAVs it could use to pummel Ukrainian cities The engineers at a once-bustling industrial hub deep inside Russia were busy planning. The team had been secretly tasked with building a production line that would operate around-the-clock churning out self-detonating drones, weapons that President Vladimir Putin’s forces could use to bombard Ukrainian cities. A retired official of Russia’s Federal Security Service was put in charge of security for the program. The passports of highly skilled employees were seized so they could not leave the country. In correspondence and other documents, engineers used coded language: Drones were “boats,” their explosives were “bumpers,” and Iran — the country covertly providing technical assistance — was “Ireland” or “Belarus.” This was Russia’s billion-dollar weapons deal with Iran coming to life in November, 500 miles east of Moscow in the Tatarstan region. Its aim is to domestically build 6,000 drones by summer 2025 — enough to reverse the Russian army’s chronic shortages of unmanned aerial vehicles, or UAVs, on the front line. If it succeeds, the sprawling new drone factory could help Russia preserve its dwindling supply of precision munitions, thwart Ukraine’s effort to retake occupied territory and dramatically advance Moscow’s position in the drone arms race that is remaking modern warfare. Non-paywalled- https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/08/17/russia-iran-drone-shahed-alabuga/ |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:29:21 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:31:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Saltwater-Hillbilly]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: We've spent a lot of time discussing right wing anti-Ukraine sentiment in this thread, but there's a ton of derp from the far left about this conflict, too. The talking points about respecting Russia's sphere of influence, Azov Nazis, NATO expansionism, etc. from the far left are almost identical to those of the far right. Putin himself may be somewhat ideological (I think he's an outright neo-fascist and wouldn't disagree with the characterization behind closed doors), but Russia is not ideological with who it targets its propaganda at, at least post-Cold War. Idiots on either extreme end of the political spectrum are both fair game. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jaehaerys: Originally Posted By GTLandser: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/1zvslystz4-7.gif The anti-Ukraine crowd needs to watch this one, it is excellent. We've spent a lot of time discussing right wing anti-Ukraine sentiment in this thread, but there's a ton of derp from the far left about this conflict, too. The talking points about respecting Russia's sphere of influence, Azov Nazis, NATO expansionism, etc. from the far left are almost identical to those of the far right. Putin himself may be somewhat ideological (I think he's an outright neo-fascist and wouldn't disagree with the characterization behind closed doors), but Russia is not ideological with who it targets its propaganda at, at least post-Cold War. Idiots on either extreme end of the political spectrum are both fair game. The Russians have a particular genius for aligning their policy goals, both domestic and foreign, with elements of other countries' economic, domestic and foreign aspirations. Support for trade agreements, peace negotiations, support for political movements, etc, worldwide are coopted to align with Russian goals. Therefore, we have an odd situation where the American hard left, European neo-Nazis, Cuba, Nicaragua, Brazil, Venezuela, Iran, a majority of the Saheel regimes, North Korea, the Hungarian government, China, the American hard right, and a bunch of Pacific island governments are all supporting Russia despite having very different goals and interests. It is the sort of contradictory outcomes and reductionist arguments one gets when one combines short-term self interest and making "the Enemy of and Enemy is a friend" as opposed to a potential ally the cornerstone of one's actions and outlook. The Russians (similar to the Chinese) are "blessed" with an outlook that has no higher moral and/practical aspirations other than power and influence which sees others as nothing but tools to be manipulated in furtherance of their goals. This tends to work in the short- and medium- term until everything falls apart, and it becomes apparent that the Russians got what they want and don't really care. If Russia was a business, it would be a hedge fund pretending to be an "angel" investor. |
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Posted: 8/17/2023 8:41:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Saltwater-Hillbilly]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: Taiwan is unfinished business. Until they take it they cannot say they’ve finished off the Nationalists and ended the Civil War. Xi wants to be the guy who brought about the final Triumph over the Nationalists and completed Mao’s great work. It’s also the guardian of what’s left of Traditional Chinese culture and history. The Reds destroyed the bulk of what they captured, because they are threatened by it. While Taiwan has great strategic value due to its location, and tech they want to have, or at least deny to us…finally winning the War is the #1 reason they want it. Wars have been fought over less, greed and pride are as good as reason as any. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By Tacosis: Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: China's objective in Taiwan is the same as Russia's in Ukraine: empire, and the restoration of rule over historical possessions. If Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing at all, China wild still feel as strongly about wanting it. What are you basing this on bc it sounds completely asinine and like utter horseshit. So when they level the island, chip plants and all, you're saying they'll plunk down a commie flag and that'll be the objective? Cuz they took back the land and accomplished and ideological objective? That's simple minded crazy talk. These people, our enemies, are not simple minded stooges. We've made that mistake too long. Bert Purtin and Xi ert chrildrens? Ok Lenny. Taiwan is unfinished business. Until they take it they cannot say they’ve finished off the Nationalists and ended the Civil War. Xi wants to be the guy who brought about the final Triumph over the Nationalists and completed Mao’s great work. It’s also the guardian of what’s left of Traditional Chinese culture and history. The Reds destroyed the bulk of what they captured, because they are threatened by it. While Taiwan has great strategic value due to its location, and tech they want to have, or at least deny to us…finally winning the War is the #1 reason they want it. Wars have been fought over less, greed and pride are as good as reason as any. Plus, to the Chinese way of thinking, the long-term benefits of eliminating Taiwan as an economic, political, and cultural rival, not to mention it's role as a strategic impediment, far exceed any short-term cost. This is a country that nuked it's construction and real estate industry, which was the main investment vehicle in mainland China not to mention the primary funding tool for their state and local governments. The fact that they would even care about disrupting chip supplies from a hostile renegade province that largely benefits their economic and strategic rivals barely even enters their calculus, as they may actually see this as eliminating a rival as they struggle to establish Chinese dominance in tech. |
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