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Posted: 9/10/2023 2:50:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Can you keep the pro Kremlin political propaganda out of this thread? This thread is a place for information about what's happening in the war, not your Russian propaganda about America. Pssst... don't quote him unless he has something really substantive to say. The ignore feature is great. 
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Posted: 9/10/2023 2:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#2]
Ukrainian forces are cracking the Russian defense lines step by step. They drive a chisel into the lines and then widen the rift by moving into the flanks. This might not look fast, but it is how you break defense networks and it is working. This is, however, not even the most important news. More importantly are the Russian troop movements in that sector. The deployment of the Russian 76th Guards Air Assault Division is an admission that the Ukrainian progress has reached such critical state for the Russian invasion army that they are even forced to deploy one of their offensive forces for defense operations. It does not only prove the level of desperation but also diminishes Russian capabilities for offensive operations. Furthermore, the Russian "offensive" at Kupyansk-Kreminna is now completely exposed as what it is: a diversionary attack. In reference to my post a few days ago, where I again - and repeatedly before - paraphrased the importance of logistics, I can only re-emphasize that the real battle in the South is about logistics and supply lines. Ukrainians not only hammer the frontline but the whole logistical network of the Russian army. The more Russian troops move in, the harder it gets for them to sustain that level of logistical support, a proficiency where they already proved to be weak Additionally, Russians are taking more and more risks by not only bringing more of their troops into Ukrainian artillery range but also exposing other frontline sectors. The attrition rate of the Russian army units comes on top of that, too. We already have eye-witness accounts of Russian POWs, disclosing profound Russian losses even within their newly deployed formations such as the above mentioned 76th Division (check on @Tatarigami_UA latest posts). The strategy of the Ukrainian Army might not look spectacular, but it works, when continued to its logical end. It is exactly how an army would operate in order to soften up an entrenched enemy to a point where it is untenable to continue to fight and withdraw. All what is needed is stamina and patience.  |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 2:55:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: 1911? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo:
1911? More like this one:  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 2:55:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PolarBear416]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Pssst... don't quote him unless he has something really substantive to say. The ignore feature is great. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By PolarBear416: Can you keep the pro Kremlin political propaganda out of this thread? This thread is a place for information about what's happening in the war, not your Russian propaganda about America. Pssst... don't quote him unless he has something really substantive to say. The ignore feature is great. I went back and cut out all his long winded nonsense except the opening and closing phrases about Ukraine being an American pawn. I want to be clear I don't mind if he brings the Russian version of events on the battlefield. But this particular post was 100% political propaganda with nothing to do with the war. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 3:03:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: I also think we need to take into account that even draftees in Vietnam were better fed, equipped and trained than Russian mobiks, and that MEDEVAC/CASEVAC on the US side in Vietnam was far superior to anything demonstrated by the Russians to date. I bet that the Russian Died of Wounds (DoW) rate in this war is off the charts compared to US Army rates in Vietnam. yes interesting to consider and certainly a factor. on the other hand Russians have at least 'some' access to body armor (of questionable quality by everything i've seen) which was seldom used in Vietnam but the concept of comparing KIA officers to overall conflict KIAs is an interesting one |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 3:09:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: 1911? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo:
1911? Some full dustcover CZ75 derivate |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 3:17:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By B5Sluggo: 1911? TWO CHECHNAN WORS!! I Think it was a CZ Of some flavor. But it did look 1911ish. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 3:43:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Lol, hypocrites every one.
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Posted: 9/10/2023 3:48:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5rj5a1WwAAmtxr?format=jpg&name=900x900 I fully expect Milley to pass information to the Russians if he thinks Ukraine is winning too much. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:04:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:11:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thanosnap]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Can you keep the pro Kremlin political propaganda out of this thread? This thread is a place for information about what's happening in the war, not your Russian propaganda about America. That doesn't come from the Kremlin. What gets to be a problem is when you don't want even neutral information shared. You may not like what a neutral general thinks or neutral countries think, but it's is an important consideration about the war. I didn't even say it's true... I specifically said "I don't think us or Ukraine sees (Ukraine) as a pawn." But you can objectively argue it either way: they have enough independence that you can say they are not, but we also have enough influence you can say they are... which is why it's not propaganda it's just the neutral view. It also gets to be a propaganda thread when you want to omit neutral or moderate information. It's not like I'm saying Zelensky is Hitler and he's leading a bunch of Nazis, or that this is a money laundering scheme to enrich the Biden crime family. Neither is General Bakshi, who you don't see siding with Russia. That would be propaganda. Saying that an Indian general sees Ukraine as an American pawn is not. Do we need to define propaganda? Here's a video from a Yale philosophy professor that would give you a good start:  What is propaganda? | Jason Stanley | Explain It Like I’m Smart by Big Think |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:14:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: TWO CHECHNAN WORS!! I Think it was a CZ Of some flavor. But it did look 1911ish. It's a CZ variant for sure. Does anyone else think she doesn't grip hard enough and tries to shoot fast without proper recoil control, and her second shots are guaranteed to be very high? A shot timer will register good splits but the target will be light on holes. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:17:07 PM EDT
[#13]
 ‘The most decisive battle in the modern era:’ Breaking down Ukraine’s victory in the Battle of Kyiv |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:20:19 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:21:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Russian Telegram Continuation of earlier 13 post. 7. Pay the fighters money for damaged equipment. It was not the fighters who came up with the payments, but the Defense Ministry, but no one receives this money. There are friends, an ATGM crew, who destroyed 13 units under Rabotino and did not receive a penny of reward for it (and Konashenkov has to account for millions of killed Nazis, hundreds of shot down death stars and at least 12 shot down Supermen, and for this the state should allocate funds, but they are going in the wrong direction). 8. Give state awards to those who deserve them, and not to those who lick the commander’s ass. They are often handed out to their sneaks (the driver of the brigade commander received the Order of Sodomy for nothing, and for 10 damaged Mavik-3s they gave out 2 Orders of Courage), and the guys sit for six months without awards and no longer want them (since they have lost their value) . 9. Give them normal, high-quality equipment in the right quantities. Now they issue relatively good VKPO 3.0 uniforms (not for everyone yet) and passable Chinese SVM helmets. The rest rests on volunteers, and many more items are needed (from thermal imagers and vehicles to mask networks and sleeping bags). 10. Change the standards of support for doctors, as well as for front-line hospitals and clinics. They receive the same amount of medicine as for peacetime. Volunteers are FUCKED OF fulfilling the duties of the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Defense, in addition to the offices they are sent to three well-known letters with such questions. 11. The state needs the support of various private design bureaus that produce remote ATGM guidance systems that integrate thermal imaging surveillance modules on equipment, etc. That is, what is relevant to the front now, but many design bureaus do not have time to deal with such trifles. Start following these steps and you will be very surprised at the changed attitude of people. https://t.me/Separ13_13/18799 Why are you upset? What's wrong? Never mind. When some guys write to you in a personal message that their last Kamaz truck in the battalion has died, others try to complain that the wired connection in the regiment is not working and they can’t fix it, even though there’s not much inclination to rejoice. Well, you're like, okay. These are all particulars. You call your friend and say, how are you? And he told you: “I’m communicating with the mothers of the dead guys, they want to find a winch to pull their sons out of the ground.” Sons. From scratch. Winch. To bury. You may object: what you want is war. Yes. But if this is a war, then let everyone think about the winch and Kamaz, about communications and the mothers of the dead, and not about how to sell steel and oil from Russian factories to Ukrainians through Poland. ZHIVOVZ https://t.me/zhivoff/10839 The last battle of Yakov Yannov and the endless war of his mother Yannov Yakov Yuryevich, born December 7, 1995, call sign Chunya, 51st orb, assigned to military unit 47043 Southern Military District. He died on June 9 at 9 a.m., they were breaking through a ring for those who were surrounded, we have messages from the guys with foreheads, the chief medical officer contacted us, in the sanitary log it was 200, the evacuation group could not reach them, there was a double encirclement, they raised the bird, witnesses there is. The Ministry of Defense informed us every three days that he was not on the bad lists, then they made a request to the payroll department, since June 1, the salary was not generated, which means there was an order, and after that, on July 26 and 27, the Ministry of Defense no longer gave any information about my son. We sent all the guys and acquaintances to search, contacted the military prosecutor's office of Novocherkassk. But the regional military registration and enlistment office sent a request to the unit only after a written statement on August 18, they registered the statement with me on August 4, i.e. two weeks later, and then I think , after my appeal to the governor. I contacted the Southern Military District, they called the unit, there was another connection with the unit, all I got was the phrase, why didn’t they tell the parents where the political officer was, where the body was? Then they told us that they would call you, if they don’t call back, call again, that’s what happened. Thanks to YuVO, they again, they are not in touch. Communication again in fragments of flying phrases: what kind of leave, where is the platoon commander, where is the company commander, and after the conversation he told us that the missing person, the body is on the territory of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, if there is a counter-offensive, maybe they will get it, who will get it if the soldiers have already been transferred to the area Mites? The guys from the Combat Brotherhood said that apparently we would have to prove everything ourselves. But where? In the military prosecutor's office, in the military garrison court of the region, in the court at the place of residence? Yesterday was September 4th, there were NO papers. Son's status? They are waiting for December 9, when it will be six months, for the BP to be declared, so there are witnesses that they died, the bodies cannot be obtained. This is the story of one mother. Colleagues saw and testified that her son died. During the retreat they were unable to take it. They immediately took off my allowance, but they can’t or don’t want to recognize him as dead. Mother was firm in her conversation with us. She is proud of her son and his feat. But she demands that her son be declared dead! And there are hundreds and thousands of such stories. Alexander Kots, Andrey Medvedev, please help! ZhIVOVZ https://t.me/zhivoff/10844 On criticism of holding public gatherings without the participation of parastatal structures Repeatedly, various individuals who are paid salaries by the federal media and who work with the local military command have expressed in extremely rude and vile form their high contempt for people’s assistance to the front through telegram channels that are not directly affiliated with government agencies and charitable foundations. Even in their fucking Newspeak they invented the term “urgent collection” and directly hint at the massive theft of money by channels. We believe that if a person knows something about the theft of money, he should go and write a statement to the authorities. Otherwise, he is a vile high-priority who can’t do anything except babble with his tongue, and all his information about anything is idle speculation. At the beginning of our channel, dear readers, we asked the volunteers questions, how is this possible! There is “some kind of front” there, which is supported by respected military officers and has collected a hell of a lot of rubles for help, let’s turn to them! Contact us. We, the volunteers, and the fighters got the hell out of it. You need the seal of the unit's command (a unit with LBS is not suitable), an established form of something, the eye of a dragon, and on a full moon call the phone number, the number of which will appear on the ripples of the lake. Do you think the Two Majors are desperate and just whining? You won't wait. We wrote two clear, understandable letters: problems and solutions. The volunteers agreed with their thoughts, the military correspondents conveyed this to a respected bald citizen with glasses at one of the meetings. Everyone nodded, agreed, and became interested! And nothing has changed. Who the hell knows how to get anything from them. So our volunteers collect funds to buy everything for the front-line soldiers, turn their apartment houses into a warehouse, and personally transport everything to the front. So that it’s not all lying around at headquarters or being resold, but at LBS. And the Popular Front is a good thing. Good people work inside. The reports are beautiful and there is a picture on TV. Not like the dirty mechanics with the “loaves”. And the devil knows where to get so many volunteers, forces and public funds to at least respond in a feedback bot to all the soldiers and commanders who ask for help. Two majors https://t.me/dva_majors/25269 ❗️🇷🇺🇺🇦 Soledar direction: promotion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Andreevka situation as of 14.00 September 9, 2023 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5lk-qTWoAAtF1e?format=jpg&name=large 🔻In the southwest of Bakhmut, Ukrainian formations continue to make their way to the railway track: after passing to the northeastern outskirts of Kleshcheevka, the Ukrainian Armed Forces struck near Andreevka. As a result of fierce fighting, enemy units were able to oust the Russian army soldiers from the village. According to some reports, the line of control of the Russian Armed Forces runs along the railway line. This is indirectly confirmed by the activity of Ukrainian reconnaissance groups north of Kurdyumovka. Detachments in armored vehicles are moving north of the Russian fortified area, which could not have happened if the Russian Armed Forces were present in Andreevka. 🔻There are also clashes in Kleshcheevka. Units of the Russian Armed Forces hold the northeastern outskirts and are trying to counterattack. The distance to the railway track is about 400 meters. https://t.me/rybar/51711 https://t.me/rsotmdivision/10533 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Russian Telegram Continuation of earlier 13 post. DSHR Rusich writes: View from below. Disadvantages of the military system identified during the work of the unit in the Northern Military District If you want soldiers to fight normally, you need to provide them with a fight. Namely: 1. Commanders must bear responsibility for the unreasonable losses of soldiers and equipment (which are often simply thrown in good condition to the enemy, and no one is imprisoned for this). How should a soldier fight when he is driven forward by threats of being put in prison by those who will not bear any responsibility for losses? And there were cases when a regiment lost its combat effectiveness within a month, storming an enemy company stronghold every other day with a maximum of a platoon, which, of course, was not enough to capture). 2. Normal planning of combat operations, which almost no one does. “Just go there even faster, faster.” The personnel do not know the situation, there are no maps, there is no understanding of planned goals, normal communication, there is no understanding of the task. 3. There is no normal evacuation of both living fighters and evacuation of the dead. Honey. groups of assholes sit at “zero” and wait for the infantry to bring them a wounded man, while evacuation groups should fly, preferably in armored vehicles, and not on loaves, to the very front of the positions. In the meantime, they offer the soldiers who hold positions under fire to drag the wounded 3-5 km to a point where they can be safely picked up. Of course, the fighters have no desire to go forward or hold positions until the last minute, knowing that they can be evacuated for too long (and there are positions from which they can only begin to be evacuated at night). It’s the same story with the dead. Recently, an allied group entered a position 700 meters from the delivery point (at night you can drive straight to this position) and saw at least 7 of our dead there, whom they did not even think about carrying out for several days. This of course greatly increases motivation and morale. And it’s normal when people refuse to complete a task knowing that there will be no evacuation. 4. Normal transportation is necessary, and the situation with it is the same as with evacuation. They threw it out at zero and dragged it back several kilometers from there. Just like transporting personnel to the front line, the enemy drives infantry fighting vehicles right to the front line, disembarks them and leaves - we observed a situation where a support worker asked for help urgently, as a result, they spent 2 hours looking for someone to bring to them and another 5 hours before them We walked (we didn’t get there because the support man was already busy). There are no reserves that will be on the equipment, knowing the route, to promptly call in to help. 5. Counter-battery warfare is often absent. The commanders think that the infantry must sit and endure the blows of the enemy artillery and still walk under them on untrenched plantings. Not only do the counter-battery stations in terms of operating range do not correspond to the technical characteristics of enemy weapons, the firing range of our self-propelled guns is inferior to the firing range of enemy guns, the accuracy of our weapons is low, there are few Krasnopol shells and there is almost nothing to illuminate with them, since the Orlanov-30 (from which target illumination is provided) for the army there are only a few units, but there are no Excalibur-type projectiles, but the Tornado-S is less resistant to enemy electronic warfare than HIMARS and the deflection of the adjusted projectile can be 700 and 1000 meters. (end to follow) (end, start above) 6. There is often no communication. “Azart” does not correspond to the declared characteristics, there are no regular repeaters for it (they say they have made it, but it’s not commercially available), the frequency converter mode drops, there is a shortage of stations. Various digital connections supplied by volunteers or purchased by the military are often impossible to connect between different models (and which can be connected, often each unit sets its own keys and frequencies, and the head of communications of the unit is not at all interested in who is sitting on what and what means the neighbors use). And the work of the communications platoons themselves (which are in every battalion) - they do not crawl like in World War II with a reel under fire, but sit in Pologi or the Petrovsky district of Donetsk and drink vodka. Although when there is no communication, they should immediately run to their units and fix the problem. Well, there is no space and satellite communications either at the company level or at the battalion level (and the enemy also has it at the platoon level). 7. Pay the fighters money for damaged equipment. It was not the fighters who came up with the payments, but the Defense Ministry, but no one receives this money. There are friends, an ATGM crew, who destroyed 13 units under Rabotino and did not receive a penny of reward for it (and Konashenkov has to account for millions of killed Nazis, hundreds of shot down death stars and at least 12 shot down Supermen, and for this the state should allocate funds, but they are going in the wrong direction). 8. Give state awards to those who deserve them, and not to those who lick the commander’s ass. They are often handed out to their sneaks (the driver of the brigade commander received the Order of Sodomy for nothing, and for 10 damaged Mavik-3s they gave out 2 Orders of Courage), and the guys sit for six months without awards and no longer want them (since they have lost their value) . 9. Give them normal, high-quality equipment in the right quantities. Now they issue relatively good VKPO 3.0 uniforms (not for everyone yet) and passable Chinese SVM helmets. The rest rests on volunteers, and many more items are needed (from thermal imagers and vehicles to mask networks and sleeping bags). 10. Change the standards of support for doctors, as well as for front-line hospitals and clinics. They receive the same amount of medicine as for peacetime. Volunteers are FUCKED OF fulfilling the duties of the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Defense, in addition to the offices they are sent to three well-known letters with such questions. 11. The state needs the support of various private design bureaus that produce remote ATGM guidance systems that integrate thermal imaging surveillance modules on equipment, etc. That is, what is relevant to the front now, but many design bureaus do not have time to deal with such trifles. Start following these steps and you will be very surprised at the changed attitude of people. https://t.me/Separ13_13/18799 Why are you upset? What's wrong? Never mind. When some guys write to you in a personal message that their last Kamaz truck in the battalion has died, others try to complain that the wired connection in the regiment is not working and they can’t fix it, even though there’s not much inclination to rejoice. Well, you're like, okay. These are all particulars. You call your friend and say, how are you? And he told you: “I’m communicating with the mothers of the dead guys, they want to find a winch to pull their sons out of the ground.” Sons. From scratch. Winch. To bury. You may object: what you want is war. Yes. But if this is a war, then let everyone think about the winch and Kamaz, about communications and the mothers of the dead, and not about how to sell steel and oil from Russian factories to Ukrainians through Poland. ZHIVOVZ https://t.me/zhivoff/10839 The last battle of Yakov Yannov and the endless war of his mother Yannov Yakov Yuryevich, born December 7, 1995, call sign Chunya, 51st orb, assigned to military unit 47043 Southern Military District. He died on June 9 at 9 a.m., they were breaking through a ring for those who were surrounded, we have messages from the guys with foreheads, the chief medical officer contacted us, in the sanitary log it was 200, the evacuation group could not reach them, there was a double encirclement, they raised the bird, witnesses there is. The Ministry of Defense informed us every three days that he was not on the bad lists, then they made a request to the payroll department, since June 1, the salary was not generated, which means there was an order, and after that, on July 26 and 27, the Ministry of Defense no longer gave any information about my son. We sent all the guys and acquaintances to search, contacted the military prosecutor's office of Novocherkassk. But the regional military registration and enlistment office sent a request to the unit only after a written statement on August 18, they registered the statement with me on August 4, i.e. two weeks later, and then I think , after my appeal to the governor. I contacted the Southern Military District, they called the unit, there was another connection with the unit, all I got was the phrase, why didn’t they tell the parents where the political officer was, where the body was? Then they told us that they would call you, if they don’t call back, call again, that’s what happened. Thanks to YuVO, they again, they are not in touch. Communication again in fragments of flying phrases: what kind of leave, where is the platoon commander, where is the company commander, and after the conversation he told us that the missing person, the body is on the territory of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, if there is a counter-offensive, maybe they will get it, who will get it if the soldiers have already been transferred to the area Mites? The guys from the Combat Brotherhood said that apparently we would have to prove everything ourselves. But where? In the military prosecutor's office, in the military garrison court of the region, in the court at the place of residence? Yesterday was September 4th, there were NO papers. Son's status? They are waiting for December 9, when it will be six months, for the BP to be declared, so there are witnesses that they died, the bodies cannot be obtained. This is the story of one mother. Colleagues saw and testified that her son died. During the retreat they were unable to take it. They immediately took off my allowance, but they can’t or don’t want to recognize him as dead. Mother was firm in her conversation with us. She is proud of her son and his feat. But she demands that her son be declared dead! And there are hundreds and thousands of such stories. Alexander Kots, Andrey Medvedev, please help! ZhIVOVZ https://t.me/zhivoff/10844 On criticism of holding public gatherings without the participation of parastatal structures Repeatedly, various individuals who are paid salaries by the federal media and who work with the local military command have expressed in extremely rude and vile form their high contempt for people’s assistance to the front through telegram channels that are not directly affiliated with government agencies and charitable foundations. Even in their fucking Newspeak they invented the term “urgent collection” and directly hint at the massive theft of money by channels. We believe that if a person knows something about the theft of money, he should go and write a statement to the authorities. Otherwise, he is a vile high-priority who can’t do anything except babble with his tongue, and all his information about anything is idle speculation. At the beginning of our channel, dear readers, we asked the volunteers questions, how is this possible! There is “some kind of front” there, which is supported by respected military officers and has collected a hell of a lot of rubles for help, let’s turn to them! Contact us. We, the volunteers, and the fighters got the hell out of it. You need the seal of the unit's command (a unit with LBS is not suitable), an established form of something, the eye of a dragon, and on a full moon call the phone number, the number of which will appear on the ripples of the lake. Do you think the Two Majors are desperate and just whining? You won't wait. We wrote two clear, understandable letters: problems and solutions. The volunteers agreed with their thoughts, the military correspondents conveyed this to a respected bald citizen with glasses at one of the meetings. Everyone nodded, agreed, and became interested! And nothing has changed. Who the hell knows how to get anything from them. So our volunteers collect funds to buy everything for the front-line soldiers, turn their apartment houses into a warehouse, and personally transport everything to the front. So that it’s not all lying around at headquarters or being resold, but at LBS. And the Popular Front is a good thing. Good people work inside. The reports are beautiful and there is a picture on TV. Not like the dirty mechanics with the “loaves”. And the devil knows where to get so many volunteers, forces and public funds to at least respond in a feedback bot to all the soldiers and commanders who ask for help. Two majors https://t.me/dva_majors/25269 ❗️🇷🇺🇺🇦 Soledar direction: promotion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Andreevka situation as of 14.00 September 9, 2023 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5lk-qTWoAAtF1e?format=jpg&name=large 🔻In the southwest of Bakhmut, Ukrainian formations continue to make their way to the railway track: after passing to the northeastern outskirts of Kleshcheevka, the Ukrainian Armed Forces struck near Andreevka. As a result of fierce fighting, enemy units were able to oust the Russian army soldiers from the village. According to some reports, the line of control of the Russian Armed Forces runs along the railway line. This is indirectly confirmed by the activity of Ukrainian reconnaissance groups north of Kurdyumovka. Detachments in armored vehicles are moving north of the Russian fortified area, which could not have happened if the Russian Armed Forces were present in Andreevka. 🔻There are also clashes in Kleshcheevka. Units of the Russian Armed Forces hold the northeastern outskirts and are trying to counterattack. The distance to the railway track is about 400 meters. https://t.me/rybar/51711 https://t.me/rsotmdivision/10533 Looks like Adriivka to Luhansk is the most open path going east. Isolate Luhansk and cut the roads going north and northwest and the entire Bakhmut-Soledar salient is at risk. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:22:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
I reached out to a source close to the Ukrainian drone programme about these claims. They confirmed Starlink had been previously enabled in the area in question - which is why Ukraine had used USVs that relied on Starlink for navigation - and that Musk had "turned it off".
My understanding - which I reported six months ago - is that Starlink was not only geofenced but also programmed to stop working at the kind of speeds drones work at. Ie it was active blocking. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5qjkTsXgAA0pjt?format=jpg&name=medium Musk has revealed himself to be a security risk. At best he’s a useful idiot, at worst he’s in effect a traitor. Is it in the interests of the US to have this man involved in critical fields here? What if he decides our space efforts are problematic? |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:26:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: My recollection is that Azerbaijan was only in the CSTO for a few years and left in the late 1990s and made efforts to counter Russian influence rather than remain in alignment with Russia, while Armenia did the opposite. Armenia has been the one aligned with and favored by Russia, which sent peacekeepers in which seems to have been to Armenia's benefit in the wake of its seizure of Nagorno-Karabakh from Azerbaijan. When the war happened Russia didn't do much of anything and I think Russia kinda wanted Armenia to suffer to try to make it want to get closer to Russia but this seems to have backfired. Also, Iran has been backing Armenia while Turkey backs the Azeris. The Azeris have been getting closer to the U.S. for years now, as well, and I think also get some support from Israel. This certainly isn't as simple as Christian versus Muslim, despite some framing it that way. Anyways, Armenia seems to know it got screwed and also realizes that either way Russia isn't going to be of much help to it, anymore, and knows that if the Azeris resume their efforts to take back their territory that they will get their shit pushed in again, so they are flipping sides and trying to align more with the West. Perhaps they think this will give them a reprieve or make it easier to secure a lasting deal or peace with Azerbaijan. At least that's what I can recall and what it all looks like to me. I could be remembering or perceiving things incorrectly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: Originally Posted By RockNwood: I am so confused with the Armenia/Azerbaijan conflict. I thought although both are in the CTSO that Azerbaijan was the one more favored by Moscow and its Islamic neighbors to the south? They just gave the finger to Moscow! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_3619-2948558.jpg My recollection is that Azerbaijan was only in the CSTO for a few years and left in the late 1990s and made efforts to counter Russian influence rather than remain in alignment with Russia, while Armenia did the opposite. Armenia has been the one aligned with and favored by Russia, which sent peacekeepers in which seems to have been to Armenia's benefit in the wake of its seizure of Nagorno-Karabakh from Azerbaijan. When the war happened Russia didn't do much of anything and I think Russia kinda wanted Armenia to suffer to try to make it want to get closer to Russia but this seems to have backfired. Also, Iran has been backing Armenia while Turkey backs the Azeris. The Azeris have been getting closer to the U.S. for years now, as well, and I think also get some support from Israel. This certainly isn't as simple as Christian versus Muslim, despite some framing it that way. Anyways, Armenia seems to know it got screwed and also realizes that either way Russia isn't going to be of much help to it, anymore, and knows that if the Azeris resume their efforts to take back their territory that they will get their shit pushed in again, so they are flipping sides and trying to align more with the West. Perhaps they think this will give them a reprieve or make it easier to secure a lasting deal or peace with Azerbaijan. At least that's what I can recall and what it all looks like to me. I could be remembering or perceiving things incorrectly. Big thanks to you and the several others who have explained aspects of the situation. Sounds like there will be conflict there for some time to come. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:29:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Happy tanker day Russia!! On track to having the most tanks lost in space since WWII. 
FIFY 😂 |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:30:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: _disconnector_]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: Musk has revealed himself to be a security risk. At best he's a useful idiot, at worst he's in effect a traitor. Is it in the interests of the US to have this man involved in critical fields here? What if he decides our space efforts are problematic? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By lorazepam:
I reached out to a source close to the Ukrainian drone programme about these claims. They confirmed Starlink had been previously enabled in the area in question - which is why Ukraine had used USVs that relied on Starlink for navigation - and that Musk had "turned it off".
My understanding - which I reported six months ago - is that Starlink was not only geofenced but also programmed to stop working at the kind of speeds drones work at. Ie it was active blocking. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5qjkTsXgAA0pjt?format=jpg&name=medium Musk has revealed himself to be a security risk. At best he's a useful idiot, at worst he's in effect a traitor. Is it in the interests of the US to have this man involved in critical fields here? What if he decides our space efforts are problematic? The last time I checked SpaceX is a semi-privately owned company that only answers to its board and investors. Are you saying it should be nationalized? Maybe Boeing could run it . . . into the ground. Whether we like it or not - what Musk does with his own property is his own business. You dont have to like it or approve. This is exactly how a business should work in a free country that respects property rights. If that's a problem build your own rocket company and do with it as you please. Maybe you could borrow the money from Blue Origin? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:32:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: I think I like her. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By Prime:
I think I like her. Her father is a complete psychopath….hopefully she doesn’t take after him. It reminds me of the story of Saddam’s daughter, who once told a teacher who tried to enforce discipline on her that she’d “tear your cunt out!” |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:34:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RockNwood]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Full calculations in thread. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5l3tpjWIAA2sAi?format=png&name=large This makes me believe the Ukrainian daily total numbers are accurate, because the source for the Officers confirmed dead mentions that even their numbers are under reported. Yes, because if they are reported killed they are supposed to pay the family a death benefit. A strong financial and PR incentive NOT to report KIA. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:34:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillyDBerger: I doubt they have Wounded Warrior Project. They (in power) really are destroying their own society. Cannon fodder for bullshit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BillyDBerger: Originally Posted By xd675: It’s the crippled that will have impact. The dead are dead in Russian society. The wounded will need constant care likely be unable to support themselves, and will reveal the truth about what they witnessed behind closed doors out of reach of the censors and gestapo. They will be billboards for Russian failure. A swath of Russian young men done this way on the word of one man, and they already had a manpower issue. I doubt they have Wounded Warrior Project. They (in power) really are destroying their own society. Cannon fodder for bullshit. After WW2, a couple years after the war most disabled vets in Russia “disappeared” suddenly. Could see Putin doing the same. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:35:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Lol, hypocrites every one.
I wish smartphones had been a thing when I walked near Ukrainian government offices parking lots. We used to joke that Ukraine was the wealthiest country in the world. Winning peace will be at least as hard if not harder than winning war. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:39:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: The last time I checked SpaceX is a semi-privately owned company that only answers to its board and investors. Are you saying it should be nationalized? Maybe Boeing could run it . . . into the ground. Whether we like it or not - what Musk does with his own property is his own business. You dont have to like it or approve. This is exactly how a business should work in a free country that respects property rights. If that's a problem build your own rocket company and do with it as you please. Maybe you could borrow the money from Blue Origin? He stepped up and made a commitment to Ukraine until they did something he didn't like. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fisherman:  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fisherman: Originally Posted By CS223: Someone needs to craft a meme of Duda discovering PSA's Daily Deal. 80% Abrams and Bradleys? F-16 “parts kits”? 3D printed circuit module to enable ATACMS launching from HIMARS (educational purposes only)? PSA drones sold by the pallet (to make them impossible for Russians to steal!)? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:47:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PolarBear416]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: The last time I checked SpaceX is a semi-privately owned company that only answers to its board and investors. Are you saying it should be nationalized? Maybe Boeing could run it . . . into the ground. Whether we like it or not - what Musk does with his own property is his own business. You dont have to like it or approve. This is exactly how a business should work in a free country that respects property rights. If that's a problem build your own rocket company and do with it as you please. Maybe you could borrow the money from Blue Origin? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By lorazepam:
I reached out to a source close to the Ukrainian drone programme about these claims. They confirmed Starlink had been previously enabled in the area in question - which is why Ukraine had used USVs that relied on Starlink for navigation - and that Musk had "turned it off".
My understanding - which I reported six months ago - is that Starlink was not only geofenced but also programmed to stop working at the kind of speeds drones work at. Ie it was active blocking. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5qjkTsXgAA0pjt?format=jpg&name=medium Musk has revealed himself to be a security risk. At best he's a useful idiot, at worst he's in effect a traitor. Is it in the interests of the US to have this man involved in critical fields here? What if he decides our space efforts are problematic? The last time I checked SpaceX is a semi-privately owned company that only answers to its board and investors. Are you saying it should be nationalized? Maybe Boeing could run it . . . into the ground. Whether we like it or not - what Musk does with his own property is his own business. You dont have to like it or approve. This is exactly how a business should work in a free country that respects property rights. If that's a problem build your own rocket company and do with it as you please. Maybe you could borrow the money from Blue Origin? You don't have to nationalize a telecom company to mandate that it be accessible for national security purposes. We didn't nationalize the tv network to get them to be part of the emergency broadcast network. We didn't nationalize the mobile phone system to get them to carry amber alerts We didn't nationalize the internet or phone system to enable the NSA to use it to tap communications by foreign nationals. The last example highlights the need for oversight since we know they went further and spied on Americans, but nobody objects to them using it to spy on foreign enemies. You don't need to nationalize Starlink to require it to carry specific traffic in foreign countries on request of the the joint chiefs. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:49:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam:
They apparently are still well supplied with TikToks! Camera hams can’t stop posing.
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:51:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
One has to wonder how much RFI is emitted into their own systems with that. Meaning, yeah, they might scramble a stock DJI but now their voice comms, and their own C2 links to their own shit don't work anymore. Weren't there reports of that earlier in the war? |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:53:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: One has to wonder how much RFI is emitted into their own systems with that. Meaning, yeah, they might scramble a stock DJI but now their voice comms, and their own C2 links to their own shit don't work anymore. Weren't there reports of that earlier in the war? They based their comms on the cell towers they blew up. Not kidding. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 4:57:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryTanks for that. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:04:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnnyC: Reads like it's just a wideband 30W jammer. Blast enough RF across the spectrum to drown out the drone's comm link. Detection of tanks running those would be super easy, being able to discriminate the exact location of the tank in that RF "bubble" might be trickier. I guess you could bang bang terminal guidance based on highest received RF signature, sort of a poor mans direction finding... I seem to recall a fairly inexpensive 4 antenna DF unit that somebody built. IIRC, it used an FPGA. There were some YT videos of it being used while driving around. Can't remember the name of it but it was designed to be inexpensive and compact and something a hobbyist could put together from a kit. Seems like you could put that on a drone pretty easily. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:06:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: OK, who has a read on the Armenia and Azerbaijan situation? Chatter is about Iran and Turkey and Russia who all seem to side with Azerbaijan? Q1: Is this likely to blow up or is Armenia about to be wiped out? Q2: What is Russia’s involvement? Would they let Turkey and Iran solve it or go in hot? Q3: Seems this would concern Georgia? Are they involved and if so because of Russia ir their own interest? Central Asia history and current events were never in my curriculum or radar. 😂 Armenia was the first nation to adopt Christianity as its organized religion. In the WWI time perid they made some bad decisions, buying in to Wilson's 14 points, and a milion Plus Christians were genocided by Turks in 1915 or so. A large number of refugees went to Lebanon, France, US, Armenian SSR. The Armenians in the USSR were generally loyal to the Communists and in return, safe from the Western-Islam Clash of Civilizations fault line: think Spain, Serbia/Kosovo, Israel. War began over N-K and refugees when the USSR fell apart. In light of US policies in the mideast, the West doesnt want to back them. The Azerbajainis have lots of gas and money. Turks support Azeris. The big question mark is the Israelis, who sold a lot of high end UAVs to the Azeris who smashed the snot out of the Armenians, and that is a bit of a precursor to the tactical innovations we see now. The Armenians are playing a bad hand as best they can, but not really adroitly. But they have few good options. To be fair, Im not certain to what degree the Azeris really did much, but the West's embracing the Turks doesnt really put the West on the moral high ground either. The locals caught between the Rus and the Turks are in between a rock and a hard place. There arent a whole lot of populations besides greater Moscow that were better off inside the USSR then without. The Orthodox Christian Caucasus states threatened by what was the Ottoman empire were the exception to that rule. Pick your poison. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:10:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: I fully expect Milley to pass information to the Russians if he thinks Ukraine is winning too much. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5rj5a1WwAAmtxr?format=jpg&name=900x900 I fully expect Milley to pass information to the Russians if he thinks Ukraine is winning too much. That was my exact first thought as well. “How can we slow down the blue dots and give the red dots time to regroup?” |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:12:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Tanks for that. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:16:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Lol, hypocrites every one.
Savage. That's another missed opportunity for western (and Ukrainian) messaging. The elite of Russia build their wealth on the backs of the common people. The oligarchs with their villas and condos in Dubai, London, Paris, etc have plundered that wealth from the Russian people. Putin's personal wealth alone would be worth a couple thousand dollars for every man, woman, and child in Russia. And he's never been anything but a civil servant. And remember Solovyov ranting about sanctions? Because his BMW was no longer able to get full service! LOL! I get why so many Russians say they're not political, they don't even want to bother with voting. The only thing they can get from actual protesting is jailed, and possibly beaten. But damn, they're in a bad situation. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:17:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MFP_4073: yes interesting to consider and certainly a factor. on the other hand Russians have at least 'some' access to body armor (of questionable quality by everything i've seen) which was seldom used in Vietnam but the concept of comparing KIA officers to overall conflict KIAs is an interesting one Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MFP_4073: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: I also think we need to take into account that even draftees in Vietnam were better fed, equipped and trained than Russian mobiks, and that MEDEVAC/CASEVAC on the US side in Vietnam was far superior to anything demonstrated by the Russians to date. I bet that the Russian Died of Wounds (DoW) rate in this war is off the charts compared to US Army rates in Vietnam. yes interesting to consider and certainly a factor. on the other hand Russians have at least 'some' access to body armor (of questionable quality by everything i've seen) which was seldom used in Vietnam but the concept of comparing KIA officers to overall conflict KIAs is an interesting one Another factor is that Officers in the Russian Army appear to be given priority for evacuation and treatment while it seems that regular Joes, especially of the moblik variety, seem to be left to fend for themselves. So there's that. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:17:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: I also think we need to take into account that even draftees in Vietnam were better fed, equipped and trained than Russian mobiks, and that MEDEVAC/CASEVAC on the US side in Vietnam was far superior to anything demonstrated by the Russians to date. I bet that the Russian Died of Wounds (DoW) rate in this war is off the charts compared to US Army rates in Vietnam. True. I find it dubious to try and extrapolate Russian KIA's in this war by ratios compared to US KIA in Vietnam. very different armies, different wars, different everything. Maybe comparing RU officer KIA from Grozny or something remotely similar would be more accurate. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:19:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: You mean to live DISABLED in Russia….even better! On a pension of 87 rubles per month with only one leg...and still likely mobilized again next year... |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:23:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Armenia was the first nation to adopt Christianity as its organized religion. In the WWI time perid they made some bad decisions, buying in to Wilson's 14 points, and a milion Plus Christians were genocided by Turks in 1915 or so. A large number of refugees went to Lebanon, France, US, Armenian SSR. The Armenians in the USSR were generally loyal to the Communists and in return, safe from the Western-Islam Clash of Civilizations fault line: think Spain, Serbia/Kosovo, Israel. War began over N-K and refugees when the USSR fell apart. In light of US policies in the mideast, the West doesnt want to back them. The Azerbajainis have lots of gas and money. Turks support Azeris. The big question mark is the Israelis, who sold a lot of high end UAVs to the Azeris who smashed the snot out of the Armenians, and that is a bit of a precursor to the tactical innovations we see now. The Armenians are playing a bad hand as best they can, but not really adroitly. But they have few good options. To be fair, Im not certain to what degree the Azeris really did much, but the West's embracing the Turks doesnt really put the West on the moral high ground either. The locals caught between the Rus and the Turks are in between a rock and a hard place. There arent a whole lot of populations besides greater Moscow that were better off inside the USSR then without. The Orthodox Christian Caucasus states threatened by what was the Ottoman empire were the exception to that rule. Pick your poison. Thanks to all for the Nagorno-Karabakh background. This was especially helpful. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:26:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: I seem to recall a fairly inexpensive 4 antenna DF unit that somebody built. IIRC, it used an FPGA. There were some YT videos of it being used while driving around. Can't remember the name of it but it was designed to be inexpensive and compact and something a hobbyist could put together from a kit. Seems like you could put that on a drone pretty easily. Yep, the KrakenSDR was pretty much designed to DF anything you want. They even had some passive radar code that unfortunately isn't available anymore. The issue I see is that while 30W output of the jammer isn't hard to DF on the scale of the battlefield, something drone sized may not be able to carry gear with enough precision to actually pinpont the tank in the middle of that RF noise. 30W isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things, but the difference between torching a T-90 and missing by 50m might look like the same thing to the drone DF hardware. A Kraken will get you to the neighborhood, maybe even the house, but would it be able to smack the top armor of a tank? Unsure. I think it's still a bit aways from a Khyber Pass HARM, but I'm positive smarter men and women than I are working on this exact problem right now. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:30:05 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:35:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: More like this one: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/201300/cz_shadow_2_sa_left_png-2949074.JPG I thought her gun-handling skills were pretty good. Although the shots looked wild and not well aimed. Also, the clip could have been the one and only time they caught her doing a descent reload. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:41:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#43]
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:44:02 PM EDT
[#44]
I would eat that.
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:44:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: The last time I checked SpaceX is a semi-privately owned company that only answers to its board and investors. Are you saying it should be nationalized? Maybe Boeing could run it . . . into the ground. Whether we like it or not - what Musk does with his own property is his own business. You dont have to like it or approve. This is exactly how a business should work in a free country that respects property rights. If that's a problem build your own rocket company and do with it as you please. Maybe you could borrow the money from Blue Origin? Yeah, it's always dangerous to help a little or to go half way. You end up with EVERYONE mad at you. My best advice to Musk and Hungary. Pick a fucking side. If you cannot tell who is good and who is bad then fuck off and STFU. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:44:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#46]
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:48:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: I fully expect Milley to pass information to the Russians if he thinks Ukraine is winning too much. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5rj5a1WwAAmtxr?format=jpg&name=900x900 I fully expect Milley to pass information to the Russians if he thinks Ukraine is winning too much. Anything I showed Milley that wasn't already out in the public domain would be 'fake' but maybe slightly realistic just to throw him off. Already seen some articles this afternoon about him running his yap how the Ukes only have 30 more days until they are done for the 'season'. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:51:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1Andy2]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LesBaer45: Anything I showed Milley that wasn't already out in the public domain would be 'fake' but maybe slightly realistic just to throw him off. Already seen some articles this afternoon about him running his yap how the Ukes only have 30 more days until they are done for the 'season'. Milley should have been hung for treason a couple of years ago. Not even kidding. What he said about pledging to subvert the United States for China to avert a war or whatever. Outright treasonous. He literally admitted to a commitment to warn the CCP of any imminent US attack. Fucking asshole. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:51:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: They based their comms on the cell towers they blew up. Not kidding. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By planemaker: One has to wonder how much RFI is emitted into their own systems with that. Meaning, yeah, they might scramble a stock DJI but now their voice comms, and their own C2 links to their own shit don't work anymore. Weren't there reports of that earlier in the war? They based their comms on the cell towers they blew up. Not kidding. I remember that. Comrade left handsky no talk on comrade right handsky. Much hilarity ensues.
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Posted: 9/10/2023 5:52:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Savage. That's another missed opportunity for western (and Ukrainian) messaging. The elite of Russia build their wealth on the backs of the common people. The oligarchs with their villas and condos in Dubai, London, Paris, etc have plundered that wealth from the Russian people. Putin's personal wealth alone would be worth a couple thousand dollars for every man, woman, and child in Russia. And he's never been anything but a civil servant. And remember Solovyov ranting about sanctions? Because his BMW was no longer able to get full service! LOL! I get why so many Russians say they're not political, they don't even want to bother with voting. The only thing they can get from actual protesting is jailed, and possibly beaten. But damn, they're in a bad situation. Not surprising. There is/was a LOT of wealth in Moscow. It was the worlds most expensive city for a time. (I have no idea now) Lots of money was flowing in from exports to the West. Rich Russian tourists have been all over Western Europe for the past decade or two. Russia is very similar to the Hunger Games world of the super rich capital surrounded by the poor Districts. Kinda like DC but more extreme...I would have been shocked if State Duma assholes were driving Lada's or taking the bus. |
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