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Posted: 11/4/2023 8:03:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I think recent events have put us on that path, though those are the bleeding edge of new capabilities, the recent 6 fold production increase of Tomahawk missiles, and doubling production of stealthy LRASM and JASSM-ER missiles we've had for years shows a trend make much more of the stuff we know will work well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By coralreefer: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Definitely planning for the next war, everything has long range and some are true hypersonic systems. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9xsa6uWQAA_nKo?format=jpg&name=large Interesting! Thanks for finding this info. We def need to lead the world in development, but I would almost rather see quantity over quality as the Russian's are having a little bit of a problem shooting down our 30 yr old developments. I think recent events have put us on that path, though those are the bleeding edge of new capabilities, the recent 6 fold production increase of Tomahawk missiles, and doubling production of stealthy LRASM and JASSM-ER missiles we've had for years shows a trend make much more of the stuff we know will work well. This war has certainly demonstrated how effective our (West) stealth is, and that Russian stealth is MIA and their AD is no match for it. Good to keep pushing the envelope, but we also need to ramp what we have in quantity and quit cutting planned deliveries just to create the next prototype. |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 8:08:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryI can't find the YouTube video but that one is set to techno too.
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Posted: 11/4/2023 8:11:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Four Stryker anti drone systems with radars and 50kW laser weapons getting ready to go through the paces. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-Fs-rCXQAACBQM?format=jpg&name=large Wow! Badass |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 8:16:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: Yea. This one is rough. Some traitor had to have guided that one in. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: 
Yea. This one is rough. Some traitor had to have guided that one in. Yep |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 8:50:51 PM EDT
[#5]
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NC, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2023 9:06:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
That is dam good to see! |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 9:14:01 PM EDT
[#7]
This Pole looks like he could have been a young man at the time of Solidarity protests against the Soviets. He likely knew the lies and brutality of Russia long before this war broke out.
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Posted: 11/4/2023 9:24:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: But but but the governor said they were all shot down. Wait... I did that wrong... Um, yea. Here we go..... The missile ship Askold knocked 3 Ukrainian cruise missiles out of the sky..... But there is nuance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Pretty sad if a Tu-141 got through the air defense they have at the site.
Notice the cranes, I wonder if these could be a target as well. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-GpoLvXgAAXst8?format=jpg&name=large But but but the governor said they were all shot down. Wait... I did that wrong... Um, yea. Here we go..... The missile ship Askold knocked 3 Ukrainian cruise missiles out of the sky..... But there is nuance. It didn't knock them out of the sky. It "intercepted" them. 
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Posted: 11/4/2023 9:24:11 PM EDT
[#9]
ISW assessment for November 4th.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-4-2023 |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 9:30:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: He bled to death in less than 2 minutes after the video ends. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K0UA: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: NSFW.
I don't think that guy made it.  He bled to death in less than 2 minutes after the video ends. It took that long? His knee was spurting pretty good. |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 9:56:55 PM EDT
[#11]
❗️🇷🇺🇺🇦 Combined attack of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on Kerch and Berdyansk
After two consecutive days of Ukrainian drone raids on Crimea, we assumed that this would be followed by a missile attack on targets on the peninsula. And, to our regret, they turned out to be right: today the Ukrainian Armed Forces attacked Kerch. ▪️Four Su-24M bombers from the Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye regions launched eight Storm Shadow/SCALP cruise missiles in the direction of Crimea. ▪️To distract and overload air defense systems in the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters fired several HARM anti-radar missiles and AGM-160 MALD decoys. 🔻Two MiG-31BM fighters took off from Belbek to intercept. But at the same time, the Ukrainians launched a diversionary attack on Cape Tarkhankut with a Neptune anti-ship missile, which was shot down by a MiG northwest of the peninsula. ▪️At the same time, eight “Storms” along the route through Dneprorudnoye and Pologi flew to the Sea of Azov, where they began to operate from the S-400 and Pantsir-S1 air defense systems. At the same time, the missiles maneuvered (“snake”), changing their route and altitude. ▪️Six Storm Shadows were shot down by 31st Division 50 km north of the Crimean Bridge and over Kerch. One missile was shot down directly above the Zaliv plant. The fragments had previously caused damage to the ship next to the pier (although the footage available on the Internet shows a hit on one of the workshops). Another one fell into the water near the plant. ▪️After some time, three more “Storms” were released from the same area, which were successfully shot down over Berdyansk. 🔻Nevertheless, today's attack demonstrates how Ukrainian formations are trying to vary tactics, overloading air defense and distracting with raids from different sides. And only thanks to the work of the air defense units, casualties were avoided. https://t.me/rybar/53912 https://t.me/dva_majors/28521 |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 10:19:12 PM EDT
[#12]
 
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Posted: 11/4/2023 10:21:48 PM EDT
[#13]
General Syrski's leadership is bankrupt, his presence or orders coming from his name are demoralizing, and he undermines trust in the command in general. His relentless pursuit of tactical gains constantly depletes our valuable human resources, resulting in tactical advances such as capturing tree lines or small villages, with no operational goals in mind. This approach creates a never-ending cycle of fruitless assaults that drain personnel. His failure to withdraw troops from Bakhmut in a timely manner earlier this year, coupled with his obsession to retake it, by utilizing Wagner Group's tactics, further depletes our resources and has more far-reaching consequences than people might realize. |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 10:32:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Good high numbers!
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Posted: 11/4/2023 11:17:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Good high numbers! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_4763-3016151.jpg See page 5059 post 6. 
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Posted: 11/4/2023 11:52:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: It took that long? His knee was spurting pretty good. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By K0UA: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: NSFW.
I don't think that guy made it. He bled to death in less than 2 minutes after the video ends. It took that long? His knee was spurting pretty good. Pretty rough to be conscious, see your own destroyed body and know beyond doubt you’re going to die. But even if choices are hard there are choices. |
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Posted: 11/4/2023 11:58:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: ❗️🇷🇺🇺🇦 Combined attack of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on Kerch and Berdyansk After two consecutive days of Ukrainian drone raids on Crimea, we assumed that this would be followed by a missile attack on targets on the peninsula. And, to our regret, they turned out to be right: today the Ukrainian Armed Forces attacked Kerch. ▪️Four Su-24M bombers from the Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye regions launched eight Storm Shadow/SCALP cruise missiles in the direction of Crimea. ▪️To distract and overload air defense systems in the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters fired several HARM anti-radar missiles and AGM-160 MALD decoys. 🔻Two MiG-31BM fighters took off from Belbek to intercept. But at the same time, the Ukrainians launched a diversionary attack on Cape Tarkhankut with a Neptune anti-ship missile, which was shot down by a MiG northwest of the peninsula. ▪️At the same time, eight “Storms” along the route through Dneprorudnoye and Pologi flew to the Sea of Azov, where they began to operate from the S-400 and Pantsir-S1 air defense systems. At the same time, the missiles maneuvered (“snake”), changing their route and altitude. ▪️Six Storm Shadows were shot down by 31st Division 50 km north of the Crimean Bridge and over Kerch. One missile was shot down directly above the Zaliv plant. The fragments had previously caused damage to the ship next to the pier (although the footage available on the Internet shows a hit on one of the workshops). Another one fell into the water near the plant. ▪️After some time, three more “Storms” were released from the same area, which were successfully shot down over Berdyansk. 🔻Nevertheless, today's attack demonstrates how Ukrainian formations are trying to vary tactics, overloading air defense and distracting with raids from different sides. And only thanks to the work of the air defense units, casualties were avoided. https://t.me/rybar/53912 https://t.me/dva_majors/28521 I’m calling horse shit on almost all of that. Ukraine has never been shown to have more than two Su-24s launching four Stormshadows, Russia probably shot down 1 out of four and intercepted the other three with the target.. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:11:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: This Pole looks like he could have been a young man at the time of Solidarity protests against the Soviets. He likely knew the lies and brutality of Russia long before this war broke out. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_4748-3016005.jpg
That poor bastard died for a strip of land allocated by the Soviets to the Ukraine SSR, though populated by Russians. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:12:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: I know you’ve always wondered whether you can fire an entrenching tool out of an RPG. Wonder no more.
We shot one out of a potato gun. Never found it. 
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:13:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Well said, It would be great if we all realized that harmony, family and being kind to others was the important stuff, from an individual stand point all the way up to governments understanding this. But we aren't there yet, so we do things to protect ourselves, from an individual stand point all the way up to governments. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By Hate_Work: Unfortunately, human beings tend to be reactionary instead of proactive, war tends to force situations on people to create solutions faster. Ain't that the truth. The Mrs. and I are fans of the early Terminator movies. There is a line when young John Connor inquires about humans and if they are going to make it. The Terminator replies, "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves ". Wouldn't it be great is humans were not so emotional and realized that harmony, taking care of family and neighbors, laughs and health was what is important? Do I buy another gun just because someone in the neighborhood shot his neighbor? I am not the best at following the bible but do understand that humans keep making the same mistakes. Well said, It would be great if we all realized that harmony, family and being kind to others was the important stuff, from an individual stand point all the way up to governments understanding this. But we aren't there yet, so we do things to protect ourselves, from an individual stand point all the way up to governments. Will never happen because we value things differently. Sure, it would be nice if the Arabs figured out that Israel was there to stay and everyone’s life would be better if they decided to live and let live. There’s a phrase in the Arab world that, if someone extends you their hand, you have two choices. You can either cut it off or kiss it. The idea of mutual benefit is not in their culture. They have decided that either they win or Israel wins, they are willing to pay the price because they have been, and will continue to be, protected from the full extent of consequences by western politics which doesn’t understand the situation. Anything less than crushing defeat will simply convince them that their tactics worked and they simply need more of it. The same is true of Russia. They are there to win by force at any cost and we have failed to deter them from that notion. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:16:17 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66660/Screenshot_20231104_173153_jpg-3015703.JPG Translation: Ukraine launched four Stormshadows, one was intercepted by Pantsir and three were intercepted by the targets. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:32:46 AM EDT
[#22]
Not related.
Just something I found  The destructive power of cluster bombs Yipes.  |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:34:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hate_Work: Of course not. It's just my opinion that the DoD, which is the largest "corporation" in the world, needs war or at least the possibility of it. Yes, the DoD does produce some stuff that can kill lots of people in lots of different ways. But with no conflicts, no need for the shiny cool expensive weapons. Do we really make more money with stability? The US stockpiles are down because Obama, Trump and now Biden didn't give a rats ass about maintaining inventories. Lucky for the DoD, they are now the recipient of a ramping up to replace lots of depleted inventories. Hell, I work at Walter Reed Hospital and have watched first hand the DoD at work. I have had many a conversation with stakeholders who position is, without war, how does Homeland Security, the DoD or even the branches supporting the casualties coming from the theater improve their triage, stabilization, surgery and rehabilitation care with no war? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hate_Work: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: I think the current administration and any other would have an interest in stopping conflicts. Because we make more money with stability in the regions rather than instability. The DoD makes more money not having to test it's weapons in real battles as well. Turn your arguement around regarding the Russian and Chinese defense industries. Are we not expected to "keep up" and have a deterrent? Would you rather our equipment get owned in a real battle? Of course not. It's just my opinion that the DoD, which is the largest "corporation" in the world, needs war or at least the possibility of it. Yes, the DoD does produce some stuff that can kill lots of people in lots of different ways. But with no conflicts, no need for the shiny cool expensive weapons. Do we really make more money with stability? The US stockpiles are down because Obama, Trump and now Biden didn't give a rats ass about maintaining inventories. Lucky for the DoD, they are now the recipient of a ramping up to replace lots of depleted inventories. Hell, I work at Walter Reed Hospital and have watched first hand the DoD at work. I have had many a conversation with stakeholders who position is, without war, how does Homeland Security, the DoD or even the branches supporting the casualties coming from the theater improve their triage, stabilization, surgery and rehabilitation care with no war? War has always been an ever-present threat and reality for the entirety of human history. The US MIC didn’t invent that to serve their own nefarious ends. War is now a fully industrial concern and has been for about 400 years. I suppose we could be sitting behind our ocean moats, producing a few thousand M1863 Springfields and basking in our glorious isolationism while we read broadsheets about war and chaos everywhere else in the world. Back to reality, the glorious US MIC is in our interests and you personally benefit from it. The nations that don’t keep up are conquered. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:35:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-GPJp0XIAARwyT?format=jpg&name=900x900
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-GPJp0XIAARwyT?format=jpg&name=900x900
General Syrski's leadership is bankrupt, his presence or orders coming from his name are demoralizing, and he undermines trust in the command in general. His relentless pursuit of tactical gains constantly depletes our valuable human resources, resulting in tactical advances such as capturing tree lines or small villages, with no operational goals in mind. This approach creates a never-ending cycle of fruitless assaults that drain personnel. His failure to withdraw troops from Bakhmut in a timely manner earlier this year, coupled with his obsession to retake it, by utilizing Wagner Group's tactics, further depletes our resources and has more far-reaching consequences than people might realize. If I'm remembering correctly, Syrski performed horribly during the War in the Donbas. He definitely needs to be shitcanned. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 12:40:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Just a reminder, don't feed the type of folks who post flyby drivel, get their talking points thoroughly debunked, wait a few weeks, and then pull the same bullshit.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 1:04:09 AM EDT
[#26]
 Taras Kuzio - Russia Looking to Replace International Rules-based Order with Lawless, Violent Chaos. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 1:29:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Disagree. Avdiivka is adjacent to Donetsk city, and that closeness gives Ukraine better arty access to the large rail & road distribution points around Donetsk. Avdiivka has been a strong point since 2014 that Ukraine has held fast for nine years of combat. Avdiivka has more strategic, tactical, and symbolic importance than Bakhmut. Losing Avdiivka will prove that the seemingly large Russian numerical losses don't matter. Russia can win if they keep pushing. Ukraine's offensive went nowhere, with no strategic gains in five months. Russia's offensive is close to securing the flank of Donetsk city after nine years, and also is advancing toward Kupiansk. I don't think Avdiivka is 'meh' at all. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lieh-tzu: Originally Posted By Capta: Not really. Avdiivka is no more important strategically than Bakhmut. It doesn’t go anywhere. Bakhmut was a fixing battle where each side thought they could get the better trade on attrition. Same with Avdiivka, although there is more evidence that it is costing Russia more heavily on equipment. If Ukraine gets pushed out eventually, meh. Russia will again trumpet a bloodbath as the next Waterloo, and then do it again until they can’t. Disagree. Avdiivka is adjacent to Donetsk city, and that closeness gives Ukraine better arty access to the large rail & road distribution points around Donetsk. Avdiivka has been a strong point since 2014 that Ukraine has held fast for nine years of combat. Avdiivka has more strategic, tactical, and symbolic importance than Bakhmut. Losing Avdiivka will prove that the seemingly large Russian numerical losses don't matter. Russia can win if they keep pushing. Ukraine's offensive went nowhere, with no strategic gains in five months. Russia's offensive is close to securing the flank of Donetsk city after nine years, and also is advancing toward Kupiansk. I don't think Avdiivka is 'meh' at all. There most likely isn’t any artillery in the Avdiivka salient, besides perhaps 120mm mortars. It’s too small and exposed. This has been implied by Ukrainian reports on the area. Therefore, leaving the salient doesn’t do anything to Ukraine’s reach into Donetsk. Their artillery is most likely all outside the salient at a safe distance, and leaving probably won’t change that. We already know that Russia has the men and material to throw at targets of their choosing. If they want it badly enough, they can take it. The questions are: what is the goal, what does it get them, what are the tradeoffs? Russia would like to create the impression that they can do this indefinitely in order to cause the west to deter themselves into defeat. Russia actually cannot do this indefinitely, but the breaking point for Russia is probably not manpower. It’s both material and political. Russia will begin to run low on armored vehicles, and if the west ever decides to get serious about support, TPTB in Russia will have to take a hard look at cost-benefit for them. Currently we have intentionally kept the costs bearable for Russia for one reason or another, so TPTB have no real incentive to change course. One can debate the wisdom of that approach. Still, in the short run this doesn’t change the fact that Russia has the resources to force a “win” whether the cost-benefit is good for them or not. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 2:50:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: yekimak]
[#28]
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Posted: 11/5/2023 3:16:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66660/IMG_20231105_014824_886_jpg-3016350.JPG Getting close to 10k IFVs. That is a lot of people with relatively fewer tanks, armor and artillery. Lots of assaulting infantry? Or hitting assembly areas? |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 3:18:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: That poor bastard died for a strip of land allocated by the Soviets to the Ukraine SSR, though populated by Russians. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By RockNwood: This Pole looks like he could have been a young man at the time of Solidarity protests against the Soviets. He likely knew the lies and brutality of Russia long before this war broke out. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_4748-3016005.jpg
That poor bastard died for a strip of land allocated by the Soviets to the Ukraine SSR, though populated by Russians. Which strip of land is this? Be specific please. Also please show your evidence regarding the demographic makeup of that strip of land. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 3:30:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: That is a lot of people with relatively fewer tanks, armor and artillery. Lots of assaulting infantry? Or hitting assembly areas? Meat assaults in Avdiivka from what I've heard( I think Denys Davydov mentioned it yesterday or day before) . The big mech columns were getting smacked so they changed tactics. Also no boat was added. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 4:24:09 AM EDT
[#32]
 ????????? TERRA: ????? ???????. FPV-??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ?????????. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 4:33:52 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 11/5/2023 4:36:34 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 11/5/2023 4:39:03 AM EDT
[#35]
   
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Posted: 11/5/2023 6:44:11 AM EDT
[#36]
 MTLB
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AB, CAN
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Posted: 11/5/2023 6:58:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryLooks like conveyor belt for the skirts. That stuff is really good at catching bullets and fragments. We use it at my gun club. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 8:22:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#38]
Video from the site of the attack on the formation of the 128th brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the village of Dimitrovo (Zarechnoye) in the Zaporozhye region.
At the moment, 28 enemy soldiers and officers are already listed as dead, and another 53 were wounded. Military Informant https://t.me/milinfolive/110054 https://twitter.com/Alex_Oloyede2/status/1721139049442730116 |
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USA
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Posted: 11/5/2023 8:47:13 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Will never happen because we value things differently. Sure, it would be nice if the Arabs figured out that Israel was there to stay and everyone’s life would be better if they decided to live and let live. There’s a phrase in the Arab world that, if someone extends you their hand, you have two choices. You can either cut it off or kiss it. The idea of mutual benefit is not in their culture. They have decided that either they win or Israel wins, they are willing to pay the price because they have been, and will continue to be, protected from the full extent of consequences by western politics which doesn’t understand the situation. Anything less than crushing defeat will simply convince them that their tactics worked and they simply need more of it. The same is true of Russia. They are there to win by force at any cost and we have failed to deter them from that notion. This, perfectly stated and should be included in every conversation/debate on this topic. Thank you. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:12:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomislav: That poor bastard died for a strip of land allocated by the Soviets to the Ukraine SSR, though populated by Russians. Nyet comrade. He died a hero fighting against savages to protect women and children. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:16:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Will never happen because we value things differently. Sure, it would be nice if the Arabs figured out that Israel was there to stay and everyone’s life would be better if they decided to live and let live. There’s a phrase in the Arab world that, if someone extends you their hand, you have two choices. You can either cut it off or kiss it. The idea of mutual benefit is not in their culture. They have decided that either they win or Israel wins, they are willing to pay the price because they have been, and will continue to be, protected from the full extent of consequences by western politics which doesn’t understand the situation. Anything less than crushing defeat will simply convince them that their tactics worked and they simply need more of it. The same is true of Russia. They are there to win by force at any cost and we have failed to deter them from that notion. Fair analysis. I hope Israelis and especially American liberal Jews come to realize this. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:19:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By toaster: Not related. Just something I found  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_HNP3qO03cYipes. Did NOT look effective in triple-canopy jungle. Unless monkeys and parrots were the targets. In open terrain...hell yeah! I think the current war in Ukraine is perfect for them (unless you are Russian). |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:37:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: War has always been an ever-present threat and reality for the entirety of human history. The US MIC didn’t invent that to serve their own nefarious ends. War is now a fully industrial concern and has been for about 400 years. I suppose we could be sitting behind our ocean moats, producing a few thousand M1863 Springfields and basking in our glorious isolationism while we read broadsheets about war and chaos everywhere else in the world. Back to reality, the glorious US MIC is in our interests and you personally benefit from it. The nations that don’t keep up are conquered. The MIC is a double edged sword. They provide the latest and best means for defense and makes our American way of life possible (at least until recently...). But if/when the MIC drives foreign policy and pushes for certain conflicts, or arms both sides, then they are NOT a benefit. It's a mistake to think that if our MIC was not busy making the best, other unfriendly "MIC" like in Russia and China would just sit idle, happy with their version of the Mosin... |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:42:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Billy_Ringo: This, perfectly stated and should be included in every conversation/debate on this topic. Thank you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Billy_Ringo: Originally Posted By Capta: Will never happen because we value things differently. Sure, it would be nice if the Arabs figured out that Israel was there to stay and everyone’s life would be better if they decided to live and let live. There’s a phrase in the Arab world that, if someone extends you their hand, you have two choices. You can either cut it off or kiss it. The idea of mutual benefit is not in their culture. They have decided that either they win or Israel wins, they are willing to pay the price because they have been, and will continue to be, protected from the full extent of consequences by western politics which doesn’t understand the situation. Anything less than crushing defeat will simply convince them that their tactics worked and they simply need more of it. The same is true of Russia. They are there to win by force at any cost and we have failed to deter them from that notion. This, perfectly stated and should be included in every conversation/debate on this topic. Thank you. Yep, it's just a fantasy to think we could stop making equipment to protect ourselves and our interests, because other people in other lands are doing the same if we decide to do the same or not. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:42:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Which strip of land is this? Be specific please. Also please show your evidence regarding the demographic makeup of that strip of land. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By Tomislav: Originally Posted By RockNwood: This Pole looks like he could have been a young man at the time of Solidarity protests against the Soviets. He likely knew the lies and brutality of Russia long before this war broke out. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_4748-3016005.jpg
That poor bastard died for a strip of land allocated by the Soviets to the Ukraine SSR, though populated by Russians. Which strip of land is this? Be specific please. Also please show your evidence regarding the demographic makeup of that strip of land. One of the problems with statements like that is that they are using one simplistic metric to make a value judgment. In Russia-world, Ukrainians are 90% Russian because over 90% of Ukrainians speak Russian. It would be like saying the United States is 95% English because 95% of Americans speak English. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:43:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stevo89: Looks like conveyor belt for the skirts. That stuff is really good at catching bullets and fragments. We use it at my gun club. Hopefully those ammo crates strapped to the sides hold mortar rounds or some HE...improvised ERA...
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:55:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: The MIC is a double edged sword. They provide the latest and best means for defense and makes our American way of life possible (at least until recently...). But if/when the MIC drives foreign policy and pushes for certain conflicts, or arms both sides, then they are NOT a benefit. It's a mistake to think that if our MIC was not busy making the best, other unfriendly "MIC" like in Russia and China would just sit idle, happy with their version of the Mosin... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Capta: War has always been an ever-present threat and reality for the entirety of human history. The US MIC didn’t invent that to serve their own nefarious ends. War is now a fully industrial concern and has been for about 400 years. I suppose we could be sitting behind our ocean moats, producing a few thousand M1863 Springfields and basking in our glorious isolationism while we read broadsheets about war and chaos everywhere else in the world. Back to reality, the glorious US MIC is in our interests and you personally benefit from it. The nations that don’t keep up are conquered. The MIC is a double edged sword. They provide the latest and best means for defense and makes our American way of life possible (at least until recently...). But if/when the MIC drives foreign policy and pushes for certain conflicts, or arms both sides, then they are NOT a benefit. It's a mistake to think that if our MIC was not busy making the best, other unfriendly "MIC" like in Russia and China would just sit idle, happy with their version of the Mosin... Agreed. But I can assure you "we" are not pushing for any conflicts. Again I think when people paint with broad brushes we get compared with all the worlds MIC's. Our MIC is not the same as the MIC of other countries. We have some success because we are a large group of companies that are actually competing with each other to get contracts for production that the military decides are worthwhile to produce for their needs. Nothing is perfect, and projects don't always work out, but I have worked in situations where we were very good at one particular thing, and we had to team up with Lockheed Martin for a system to be built. Another competing group we were up against was Boeing and General Dynamix and we all had to make a product the military wanted. The military then tested our products against each other, compared pricing, and decided which system won the competition and those companies then start making the product. At the same time, there are other projects where my compay was teamed up with the competition from that other project lol. So I worked with a team from Boeing to compete against Lockheed for someting else the military wanted and then tested and compared and etc, so that's how the competition works to our advantage here in the U.S. We actually compete against each other, and work with each other so there is a drive for innovation, competition for lower pricing to meet a demand from the military. It is a strange environment to be in. Plus testing against our competition to make sure the product will meet their needs. Otherwise you end up with a Russian MIC situation, where mob bosses skim 30% off of the funding and fill ERA reactive armor tank tiles with rubber or no plastic explosives.
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:55:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: One of the problems with statements like that is that they are using one simplistic metric to make a value judgment. In Russia-world, Ukrainians are 90% Russian because over 90% of Ukrainians speak Russian. It would be like saying the United States is 95% English because 95% of Americans speak English. I agreed with your point, but 95% speaking English seems very high in current America |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 9:59:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#49]
In the mud season, I can only imagine it is going to get rough for Russian forces to use normal vehicles to supply their forces as they have been doing during the Summer. |
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Posted: 11/5/2023 10:01:52 AM EDT
[#50]
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