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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:47:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: He'll whine, but his bluff was called. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Smokey0844: I'm honestly curious and concerned with the overland supply runs from NATO. At what point will Russia say that we are supplying weapons to kill their people and say that's no different than having troops on the ground since both equal dead Russians? He'll whine, but his bluff was called. This. Fuck it. It's all on him. This shit needs to stop. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:47:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Did I read that right....we (NATO) are trucking defensive aid into Ukraine from Poland? Not just bringing it into Poland, taking it to the border and letting Ukraine pick it up, but actually taking it INTO Ukraine? That would seem like a major escalatory move that could lead to an all out war between Russia and NATO. This seems like an incredibly risky move. I have no issue in supplying Ukraine with weapons. But it needs to be done in a covert way. 
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MN, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:48:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Can only imagine the amount of blue on blue when Kyiv turns into firefights in the streets.
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:48:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spade: Some validity, because the Russians are super paranoid and convinced that any day now ze Germans are going to invade again. ETA: Every Russian foreign policy move makes sense if you assume 1) Russia has an inferiority complex about Europe and jealously wants to be not only European but better than them. 2) Russia is incredibly paranoid and believes Germany is going to invade again at any moment and that German's only goal in life is to conquer Russia 3) Russians are alcoholics. I had a mil history prof in college talk about going over to Russia post-communism to do some stuff, and at an official party got to listen to a Russian Air Force staff officer rant about how unifying Germany was a bad thing, because dividing it was the only way to keep the Germans from invading again, and losing their border SSRs was terrible because it meant they'd have to fight Germany on Russian soil, not somebody else's (Poland, for example). This is like mid to late 90's. That does strongly fit with what I know of Russian history in mindset. They have been invaded enough times that "follow the strong man, even if he's a bastard because he'll keep the barbarians out of our country" is practically stamped into their DNA. Geopolitically, would it have been better to have encouraged Ukraine to remain outside of NATO and to build their conventional forces to a level to deter Russia (not defeat, just make themselves not worth the effort), or would that have telegraphed weakness to Russia, or perhaps China and created other problems? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:48:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlueSetter: In my mind, it’s hard to justify dedicating resources to providing care and guarding prisoner invaders who came intending to kill or be killed. That’s the decision the invading force makes. Ukraine by all measures is overmatched by Russia’s forces. All resources are critical. I don’t suggest hanging corpses from bridges or anything obscene or unusually cruel. Just saying any invading force has accepted and sought that fate, they should be obliged. Guarding prisoners is universally accepted as an easier task than fighting to the death with ones that are now know surrender isn't an option. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:48:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008:  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fox2008: Originally Posted By Chokey:
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:49:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SimonPhoto: I believe it was part of Russia's justification, meant for Western eyes. So even if there is truth to it, it also has a propaganda element in it as well. In other words, geopolitical reality is, as always, not the clean business we could wish that it was. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:50:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Parabellum08: Are you concerned about Russian bounties for dead American soldiers? Are you concerned about Soviet SAM launchers and personnel engaging US targets in North Vietnam? Are you concerned about the US arming the Mujahadeen for a decade (who do you think paid for all of the ChiCom AKs they got)? Proxy War is, and has been for many decades, the name of the game. The Russians made a choice that this is what they want. Tough shit. We’re in this situation because of pussfag bedwetters who are afraid to show strength, push back, and put Putin in his place. It’s the reason why this did not happen when Trump was President. Agreed. But still concerned what decisions crazy people can make when they’re in a corner. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:50:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motown_steve: It sounds like Putin has gone bat shit. He gave a speech claiming that he's fighting neo-nazis and urging the Ukrainian military to stage a coup so that they can come to an agreement with Russia. Lavrov is making speeches saying no one is going to attack the Ukrainian people, and they are just going after the Neo-nazis promoting genocide. Meanwhile the Russians are losing momentum and the Ukrainians still have active air defense. I don't know if that's good news. At what point does a delusional Putin get frustrated and escalate this scenario, while NATO activates it's reactionary force and more troops are being sent to Europe? Delusional is right. They can’t actually expect that anybody in Ukraine is listening to Sergei Lavrov’s call for a coup. There’s a reason why Molotov Cocktails are named after a Soviet foreign minister, I suppose. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:50:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MadMonkey: And Belarus is far from a neutral location  That is true. What a better opportunity to lure a bunch of senior Ukraine leadership into Belarus so they can be captured? Still, this likely indicates things aren't going so well for Russia, to even mention this as a possibility. I don't really think they want to have to wade into Kyiv, a city of some 2.88 million people who hate their guts and try to take it building by building. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:51:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: davidenorth]
[#11]
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:51:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PissedMick:
Of course Germany is bitching out... too busy wanting mustache rides. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:51:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MadMonkey: And Belarus is far from a neutral location Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MadMonkey: Originally Posted By Spade: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Sky News has a scrawl on the bottom of their news broadcast saying the Kremlin has indicated they are now willing to send a delegation to Belarus for talks with Ukrainian officials. Not sure how fresh this is, but it is the first I've heard of this specific offer. Between the stiffer than expected Ukrainian resistance and now the possibility Germany and Italy are willing to go along with booting Russia from Swift, combined with the unrest at home, maybe they realize it would be in their best interest to end this shit soon. And no, I don't think Putin is crazy or off his rocker. But I doubt he minds if people in the West are left to wonder just for the intimidation factor. I wouldn't trust them. Didn't they pull that shit in Chechnya? Say they were willing to chat, gave safe passage, and then killed everybody? And Belarus is far from a neutral location I heard a report saying Ukrainian officials would only meet in Warsaw as a counter to the Belarus offer. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Phocks: NATO membership is definitely a sensitive subject for Russia, but no one seriously believed Ukraine was joining anytime soon. In retrospect, NATO could have either surprise-invitrd them or definitively turned down their membership, but frankly if a country is able to justify an invasion based on their neighbor doing something they don't like, the world would be back in the 18th century. So this would point toward it being a red herring that Russia is using to justify its actions. IOW, they took talk of Ukraine joining NATO that wasn't especially serious and painted it as if it were a done deal, and only waiting on the papers getting signed. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:52:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MBUZICHOMA]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sveesix: That it what it appeared like on twitter. [tweet]https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1497276667991138311?s=20&t=A-CjfOHjUN22gcy7FdQyJw[/tweet] Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sveesix: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Did I read that right....we (NATO) are trucking defensive aid into Ukraine from Poland? Not just bringing it into Poland, taking it to the border and letting Ukraine pick it up, but actually taking it INTO Ukraine? That would seem like a major escalatory move that could lead to an all out war between Russia and NATO. This seems like an incredibly risky move. I have no issue in supplying Ukraine with weapons. But it needs to be done in a covert way. That it what it appeared like on twitter. [tweet]https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1497276667991138311?s=20&t=A-CjfOHjUN22gcy7FdQyJw[/tweet] If bullshit could fly Twitter would be an airport I want the Ukrainians to beat the Russians back but the information from other news sources seems to be nearly opposite of what is going on. Example the airport. Russia took it. Ukraine counterattacked and the Russians fled. Today the Russian has the airport. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:52:53 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:52:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Parabellum08: Are you concerned about Russian bounties for dead American soldiers? Are you concerned about Soviet SAM launchers and personnel engaging US targets in North Vietnam? Are you concerned about the US arming the Mujahadeen for a decade (who do you think paid for all of the ChiCom AKs they got)? Proxy War is, and has been for many decades, the name of the game. The Russians made a choice that this is what they want. Tough shit. We’re in this situation because of pussfag bedwetters who are afraid to show strength, push back, and put Putin in his place. It’s the reason why this did not happen when Trump was President. Probably the only thing our current administration and last administration agreed on was that the Russian bounty story was incredibly slim and couldn't be verified. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:53:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By couchlord: Why haven't the Russians knocked out Ukraine's power grid? Admittedly, I was never in the military and so I can’t comment on what’s going on from an operational standpoint. However, can someone here please explain what the hell is going on? I thought Russia would have (unfortunately) packed UKR’s shit in by now. Are they holding forces back? Don’t get me wrong, I love seeing UKR fighting back, but it just seems “off” that Putin would put up this kind of embarrassment. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:53:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
He noped out quick |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:53:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
I would expect a 122 to have a little more oomph. Maybe submunitions? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:53:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Is Ukraine getting help from people from other countries coming to join taking up arms against the Russians inside Ukraine?
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MT, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:54:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mokerr: I heard a report saying Ukrainian officials would only meet in Warsaw as a counter to the Belarus offer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mokerr: Originally Posted By MadMonkey: Originally Posted By Spade: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Sky News has a scrawl on the bottom of their news broadcast saying the Kremlin has indicated they are now willing to send a delegation to Belarus for talks with Ukrainian officials. Not sure how fresh this is, but it is the first I've heard of this specific offer. Between the stiffer than expected Ukrainian resistance and now the possibility Germany and Italy are willing to go along with booting Russia from Swift, combined with the unrest at home, maybe they realize it would be in their best interest to end this shit soon. And no, I don't think Putin is crazy or off his rocker. But I doubt he minds if people in the West are left to wonder just for the intimidation factor. I wouldn't trust them. Didn't they pull that shit in Chechnya? Say they were willing to chat, gave safe passage, and then killed everybody? And Belarus is far from a neutral location I heard a report saying Ukrainian officials would only meet in Warsaw as a counter to the Belarus offer. That's a great response! 
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:54:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
Kebab has been removed. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:54:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4thbreak: Battalions of the Territorial Defense of Kyiv received NLAW
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMdgcFJXoAg1Ng0?format=jpg&name=900x900 
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:55:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Did I read that right....we (NATO) are trucking defensive aid into Ukraine from Poland? Not just bringing it into Poland, taking it to the border and letting Ukraine pick it up, but actually taking it INTO Ukraine? That would seem like a major escalatory move that could lead to an all out war between Russia and NATO. This seems like an incredibly risky move. I have no issue in supplying Ukraine with weapons. But it needs to be done in a covert way. It seems that way, yes. Seems like a, "I fucking dare you" to me. Escalation is continuing. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:55:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JustaGunNut]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By davidenorth: Anyone watching how Far East the Global Hawk Forte11 is flying in the Black Sea? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/44058/Screenshot_20220225-125125_Flightradar24-2292763.JPG Damn, also violating the Russian NOTAM. This combined with the NATO supplies is really, really testing the waters to see how Putin will react to the threat he made when declaring war. This is a big deal, and definitely not a weak move. I would rate these developments as significant. *EDIT* Forte11 doesn't appear to be an escalation. Seems it flew a similar flight path yesterday. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:55:34 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:56:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NeuroCrim: Admittedly, I was never in the military and so I can’t comment on what’s going on from an operational standpoint. However, can someone here please explain what the hell is going on? I thought Russia would have (unfortunately) packed UKR’s shit in by now. Are they holding forces back? Don’t get me wrong, I love seeing UKR fighting back, but it just seems “off” that Putin would put up this kind of embarrassment. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NeuroCrim: Originally Posted By couchlord: Why haven't the Russians knocked out Ukraine's power grid? Admittedly, I was never in the military and so I can’t comment on what’s going on from an operational standpoint. However, can someone here please explain what the hell is going on? I thought Russia would have (unfortunately) packed UKR’s shit in by now. Are they holding forces back? Don’t get me wrong, I love seeing UKR fighting back, but it just seems “off” that Putin would put up this kind of embarrassment. It's been two days and its a country of 40 million the size of Texas. How long did it take us to "liberate" Baghdad? |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:56:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: That's a great response! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail: Originally Posted By mokerr: Originally Posted By MadMonkey: Originally Posted By Spade: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Sky News has a scrawl on the bottom of their news broadcast saying the Kremlin has indicated they are now willing to send a delegation to Belarus for talks with Ukrainian officials. Not sure how fresh this is, but it is the first I've heard of this specific offer. Between the stiffer than expected Ukrainian resistance and now the possibility Germany and Italy are willing to go along with booting Russia from Swift, combined with the unrest at home, maybe they realize it would be in their best interest to end this shit soon. And no, I don't think Putin is crazy or off his rocker. But I doubt he minds if people in the West are left to wonder just for the intimidation factor. I wouldn't trust them. Didn't they pull that shit in Chechnya? Say they were willing to chat, gave safe passage, and then killed everybody? And Belarus is far from a neutral location I heard a report saying Ukrainian officials would only meet in Warsaw as a counter to the Belarus offer. That's a great response! Katyn would be better. Then plant some trees after the meeting |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:56:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kuhndog: To our Ukrainian brothers/ sisters on here I hope and pray you remain safe and kill a load of Russians. In my opinion Ukraine is the first in a line of dominoes and the nations that stood by and watched will be remembered for what they are. It dumbfounds me that the world community is sitting this one out. Your military and citizens are giving the Russians one hell of a bloody nose. I raise a glass in your honor… continue to stack Russian bodies. May god bless you all. Slava Ukraini! Heroiam slava! Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes! Is a Ukrainian national salute. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:56:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamesP81: So this would point toward it being a red herring that Russia is using to justify its actions. IOW, they took talk of Ukraine joining NATO that wasn't especially serious and painted it as if it were a done deal, and only waiting on the papers getting signed. Don't get me wrong, Ukraine joining NATO is a legitimate concern for Russia, but even if they were it's not morally or legally justifiable causus belli. And Putin's actual declaration made it quite obvious that the only real reason for the war is that Ukraine "belongs" to Moscow and they just won't admit it. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:56:55 PM EDT
[#32]
 Attached FileQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamesP81: That does strongly fit with what I know of Russian history in mindset. They have been invaded enough times that "follow the strong man, even if he's a bastard because he'll keep the barbarians out of our country" is practically stamped into their DNA. Geopolitically, would it have been better to have encouraged Ukraine to remain outside of NATO and to build their conventional forces to a level to deter Russia (not defeat, just make themselves not worth the effort), or would that have telegraphed weakness to Russia, or perhaps China and created other problems? The simplified version |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:56:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
Wow... |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:57:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: That is true. What a better opportunity to lure a bunch of senior Ukraine leadership into Belarus so they can be captured? Still, this likely indicates things aren't going so well for Russia, to even mention this as a possibility. I don't really think they want to have to wade into Kyiv, a city of some 2.88 million people who hate their guts and try to take it building by building. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By MadMonkey: And Belarus is far from a neutral location That is true. What a better opportunity to lure a bunch of senior Ukraine leadership into Belarus so they can be captured? Still, this likely indicates things aren't going so well for Russia, to even mention this as a possibility. I don't really think they want to have to wade into Kyiv, a city of some 2.88 million people who hate their guts and try to take it building by building. Lukeshanko is the small guy running his mouth while standing behind his bigger friend. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:57:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
If this is true I wonder what Biden it giving them? Taiwan, next year, in a peaceful and free election the people voted invite China to take over the island? |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:57:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74651/g4h9_jpg-2292772.JPG The simplified version Beautiful |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:57:46 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:57:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
I see this being recycled when they invade Taiwan |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:57:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nickmemphis]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Phocks: Guarding prisoners is universally accepted as an easier task than fighting to the death with ones that are now know surrender isn't an option. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Phocks: Originally Posted By BlueSetter: In my mind, it’s hard to justify dedicating resources to providing care and guarding prisoner invaders who came intending to kill or be killed. That’s the decision the invading force makes. Ukraine by all measures is overmatched by Russia’s forces. All resources are critical. I don’t suggest hanging corpses from bridges or anything obscene or unusually cruel. Just saying any invading force has accepted and sought that fate, they should be obliged. Guarding prisoners is universally accepted as an easier task than fighting to the death with ones that are now know surrender isn't an option. This every day and twice on Sunday. It takes resources to do anything, but it's a lot less resource intensive to guard prisoners and treat them well, than it is the obverse. Because the fastest thing that will become universal knowledge is that surrender is certain death. Ever heard of Malmedy? Casualties hurt you a lot more than the cast of POW camps. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:57:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Anyone have a source on the rus navy firing on a Japanese merchant ship?
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustaGunNut: Damn, also violating the Russian NOTAM. This combined with the NATO supplies is really, really testing the waters to see how Putin will react to the threat he made when declaring war. This is a big deal, and definitely not a weak move. I would rate these developments as significant. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustaGunNut: Originally Posted By davidenorth: Anyone watching how Far East the Global Hawk Forte11 is flying in the Black Sea? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/44058/Screenshot_20220225-125125_Flightradar24-2292763.JPG Damn, also violating the Russian NOTAM. This combined with the NATO supplies is really, really testing the waters to see how Putin will react to the threat he made when declaring war. This is a big deal, and definitely not a weak move. I would rate these developments as significant. Earlier Forte11 circled north of Instanbul for quite awhile. I hadn’t thought about the NOTAM just thought it was really close to Russian areas. |
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PRK
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
Hope they turn on each-other. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PWA_Commando: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/415375/FMdgcFJXoAg1Ng0-2292767.jpg I noticed that too. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:31 PM EDT
[#44]
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
Things are looking bad for Putin, and that kinda scares me 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clctr: So ARF Undersores and Occupy Wall Street and Lt Col Vindman and the Progressives and GOPe and Hunter are all siding with Ukraine? QANON stands alone  Assclowns |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Star_Scream: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/74651/g4h9_jpg-2292772.JPG The simplified version |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:58:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bulldog1967: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/6755/Screen_Shot_2022-02-25_at_1_49_36_PM-2292764.png Backup plan is throw the cat and litterbox into armored vehicle hatch. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:59:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NeuroCrim: Admittedly, I was never in the military and so I can’t comment on what’s going on from an operational standpoint. However, can someone here please explain what the hell is going on? I thought Russia would have (unfortunately) packed UKR’s shit in by now. Are they holding forces back? Don’t get me wrong, I love seeing UKR fighting back, but it just seems “off” that Putin would put up this kind of embarrassment. There's only 3 possibilities as I see it 1) They want the country intact. They don't want to rebuild anything, they want a conquest that is turn key and doesn't need massive infrastructure repairs and the costs associated 2) They don't have as many precision weapons as western countries, so they are holding back some to limit collateral damage. They don't care about this in principle, but they may intend to resume somewhat normal relations with the West once this is over, and that can't happen if they're indiscriminately bombing cities. 3) The Russian Bear isn't as fearsome as everyone thought, or Ukraine's forces are a lot more effective than anticipated, and maybe both. Russian losses might be a lot higher than they are admitting in public and are slowing down to consider their options. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 2:59:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Baddy:
Awesome PR move. Russia kills kids while Ukraine helps their enemy. |
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