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Posted: 12/15/2016 9:41:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JsARCLIGHT]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280:
Its going to take a lot to get to that "high note", as its currently suffering from your aforementioned "limping" description...that being said, the mid season finale was much better than most of the episodes this season, so maybe the 2nd half will continue improving. Sadly the show has a long, long way to fall before I view it as being in a life support situation. My "limping" description was for shows that pull chickenshit moves in shallow attempts to revitalize their popularity... like adding cute kid characters, suddenly relocating the show to Hawaii or some nonsense, erasing entire seasons of the show and writing them off as "dreams"... that kind of "limping to the shed" shit. Shows that get unceremoniously cancelled with no announcement of the cancellation... shows that just "disappear". IMO Walking Dead is in a period of misjudging what its audience wants to see. The biggest complaint I see about the Negan storyline is the overuse of Negan, followed closely by the poor leadership abilities of Rick. People want a strong Rick and a shadowy Negan... and they got an omnipresent Negan and pussy Rick. |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 9:44:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
In theory any TV show can continue forever, in example The Simpsons. In reality, every TV show loses steam before the 8th to 10th season and just starts to recycle ideas, recycle characters or fall prey to cheesy TV tropes like crossovers, dream sequence episodes, "very special" episodes, or the much hated name brand guest star of the episode episodes. The other death knell of a popular TV show is money... as a show gets popular, the cast and creators want more money to keep doing it (capitalism). And this is accomplished by the network raising the price of ad time during the popular show. Eventually they reach a cap... the viewer numbers peak and they can only charge so much per slot, which means the show eventually reaches "peak ad revenue". Soon after this point ratings drop, ad prices drop, revenue drops and the show becomes unsustainable... and they end it. Good shows will go out on a high note... bad shows will be taken limping behind the barn to have their brains blown out unceremoniously. I firmly believe Walking Dead will go out on a high note. They will end the show in a way that enables AMC to advertise the hell out of "the final season" to milk the final drops out of the cow. But I think that point is a variable right now. I don't think the show runners have an actual endgame in mind. Kirkman has said on multiple occasions that his "fantasy" is a never-ending zombie show... one that much like its monsters just keeps on shambling. And from what I've seen of Kirkman's other creative efforts, Walking Dead is his magnum opus and I don't see him branching out into anything else of worth. I think as long as he keeps getting checks, he will keep making Walking Dead comics. And those comics will provide fodder for a show. As for the passage of time in the comics, the comics "cheat"... a LOT. From the beginning to "now" in the comics, only about 1.75 years have passed. Coral is still a "child" of around 10 or 11... Rick is still in his 30s. And outside of variations in hair length, facial hair and wounds, Rick and Coral look virtually THE SAME as they did in issue one as they do "now". as Indiana Jones said it isn't the age its the mileage... Rick and Coral in the comics are beat to shit and look it... but they are a "young" beat to shit if that makes any sense. (what follows are comics spoilers but I will try to speak in non-specific generalities as much as possible) Click To View Spoiler I always appreciate your commentary. So, you think the "Saviors War" story arc will be the climax of the show. The way these writers burn through story arcs I can't imagine them stretching the Saviors situation longer than 1 or 2 more mini-seasons. |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 9:47:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JsARCLIGHT]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Qweevox:
I always appreciate your commentary. So, you think the "Saviors War" story arc will be the climax of the show. The way these writers burn through story arcs I can't imagine them stretching the Saviors situation longer than 1 or 2 more mini-seasons. If it is not the literal finale of the show, it will possibly mark the point of no return for the show's popularity. This first half season alone has shown me that the shine is off the apple and without some good righting of the ship they stand to begin the downward trend all shows inevitably face. One day cock of the walk, the next a feather duster. Edit: Then again I feel the need to reiterate my own personal distaste for the "forever show". I like my entertainment to have a good beginning, middle and ending... and I like it more when the creators have actually planned the ending so everything logically flows toward it. Rather than the usual clumsy, saccharine, pandering "ok lets wrap this thing up at the last second" crap that most American TV shows manage. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/15/2016 10:35:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
In theory any TV show can continue forever, in example The Simpsons. In reality, every TV show loses steam before the 8th to 10th season and just starts to recycle ideas, recycle characters or fall prey to cheesy TV tropes like crossovers, dream sequence episodes, "very special" episodes, or the much hated name brand guest star of the episode episodes. The other death knell of a popular TV show is money... as a show gets popular, the cast and creators want more money to keep doing it (capitalism). And this is accomplished by the network raising the price of ad time during the popular show. Eventually they reach a cap... the viewer numbers peak and they can only charge so much per slot, which means the show eventually reaches "peak ad revenue". Soon after this point ratings drop, ad prices drop, revenue drops and the show becomes unsustainable... and they end it. Good shows will go out on a high note... bad shows will be taken limping behind the barn to have their brains blown out unceremoniously. I firmly believe Walking Dead will go out on a high note. They will end the show in a way that enables AMC to advertise the hell out of "the final season" to milk the final drops out of the cow. But I think that point is a variable right now. I don't think the show runners have an actual endgame in mind. Kirkman has said on multiple occasions that his "fantasy" is a never-ending zombie show... one that much like its monsters just keeps on shambling. And from what I've seen of Kirkman's other creative efforts, Walking Dead is his magnum opus and I don't see him branching out into anything else of worth. I think as long as he keeps getting checks, he will keep making Walking Dead comics. And those comics will provide fodder for a show. As for the passage of time in the comics, the comics "cheat"... a LOT. From the beginning to "now" in the comics, only about 1.75 years have passed. Coral is still a "child" of around 10 or 11... Rick is still in his 30s. And outside of variations in hair length, facial hair and wounds, Rick and Coral look virtually THE SAME as they did in issue one as they do "now". as Indiana Jones said it isn't the age its the mileage... Rick and Coral in the comics are beat to shit and look it... but they are a "young" beat to shit if that makes any sense. (what follows are comics spoilers but I will try to speak in non-specific generalities as much as possible) Click To View Spoiler Good points. I'd love to hear your prediction on total seasons the show will get, and where it ends. I stand by my prior prediction regarding a bad season 8, disastrous season 9, and half season 10 finale. My feeling is the missteps of the last season and a half cost this show somewhere between 2 and 4 seasons, and unimaginable millions of dollars. I realize it sounds ridiculous to think the show could have gone 12-14 seasons, but I think it actually could have. These are short seasons also. In the end, if my prediction somehow does end up being right, people will say it's great for any show to make it 10 seasons, and that is true. |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 10:44:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
Edit: Then again I feel the need to reiterate my own personal distaste for the "forever show". I like my entertainment to have a good beginning, middle and ending... and I like it more when the creators have actually planned the ending so everything logically flows toward it. Rather than the usual clumsy, saccharine, pandering "ok lets wrap this thing up at the last second" crap that most American TV shows manage. Yeah, newer shows are appearing with a definite long-term multi season story line. Breaking Bad was a great example of one that was strictly written for TV, and GoT has obvious source material in the books. It is a far cry from the old days where we had a set of characters and a 45 minute standalone play every week. Oh My God They Killed Kenny! |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 10:51:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CannonBallz:
Here's my thoughts on Boots on the Ground guy. I think it's directly connected to zombie lake guy and the note. He's the bad news the note referenced. IE, the whole zombie lake scenario was a trap set by boots boy to find capable victims who would lead him back to their sanctuary where he could then pick them off and take their supplies. I think he's someone new, a non-comic book character invented for the show. He's a badass, and while his initial plan is to victimize whoever raids the lake, he'll ultimately help rick and company deal with Negan. Just a theory. That's my thoughts as well. He was out scavenging or whatever, and returned to find Rick and Aaron looting his supplies. He follows them back trying to figure out how he gets his stuff back. |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 10:51:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CannonBallz:
Good points. I'd love to hear your prediction on total seasons the show will get, and where it ends. I stand by my prior prediction regarding a bad season 8, disastrous season 9, and half season 10 finale. My feeling is the missteps of the last season and a half cost this show somewhere between 2 and 4 seasons, and unimaginable millions of dollars. I realize it sounds ridiculous to think the show could have gone 12-14 seasons, but I think it actually could have. These are short seasons also. In the end, if my prediction somehow does end up being right, people will say it's great for any show to make it 10 seasons, and that is true. I have never expected the show to go past 10 seasons myself... for the pure reason that they will run out of comic book source material faster than Kirkman can create it. Plus, and not to beat a dead horse with my own opinion, but the next major story arc in the comics after the Saviors is just... awful. People talk about this season of the TV show causing them to stop watching, well the recent story arc of the comics caused me to stop my subscription to them. It is just... dumb... and that is saying a lot when it comes to The Walking Dead. I now buy the comics when I can find them for cheap, weeks and even months after they have been released. My prediction for the parent show is that the second half of season 7 is the beginning of the big conflict with the Saviors but not the "meat" of it. This story is continued through all of season 8, with the finale being the end of the Saviors story arc in 2018. It is at that point I can only assume the show will have been renewed for season 9, which is where the show will do one of two things... it will either begin the next story arc from the comics or it will pull an "anime" and create a whole cloth, brand new story arc just for the TV show. Doing the latter will give them breathing room to offset the comics again and allow the comics to gain another year to wrap the current storyline. It could also give them the opportunity to end the TV show in an non-comics canon way. So my guesstimate is that The Walking Dead will last at least until season 9, unless season 8 just belly flops massively. And to expound on your hypothesis, I would say that the first gut punch to the franchise was actually Fear The Walking Dead... I firmly believe that that spinoff damaged the franchise and precipitated the plateau of the numbers we saw in season 6. Not only did it weaken the draw of the parent show by giving the audience (and potential audience) a secondary outlet, the overall lackluster quality of the show was a net drag on the overall brand. It was the Gallagher II of the Walking Dead franchise. |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 10:58:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sircam671:
Why did the redhead want Michonne to kill her? I interpreted it as though she was tired of living the life of a Savior and she didn't have any other options. Suicide via Michonne. |
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Posted: 12/15/2016 11:47:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
In theory any TV show can continue forever, in example The Simpsons. In reality, every TV show loses steam before the 8th to 10th season and just starts to recycle ideas, recycle characters or fall prey to cheesy TV tropes like crossovers, dream sequence episodes, "very special" episodes, or the much hated name brand guest star of the episode episodes. The other death knell of a popular TV show is money... as a show gets popular, the cast and creators want more money to keep doing it (capitalism). And this is accomplished by the network raising the price of ad time during the popular show. Eventually they reach a cap... the viewer numbers peak and they can only charge so much per slot, which means the show eventually reaches "peak ad revenue". Soon after this point ratings drop, ad prices drop, revenue drops and the show becomes unsustainable... and they end it. Good shows will go out on a high note... bad shows will be taken limping behind the barn to have their brains blown out unceremoniously. I firmly believe Walking Dead will go out on a high note. They will end the show in a way that enables AMC to advertise the hell out of "the final season" to milk the final drops out of the cow. But I think that point is a variable right now. I don't think the show runners have an actual endgame in mind. Kirkman has said on multiple occasions that his "fantasy" is a never-ending zombie show... one that much like its monsters just keeps on shambling. And from what I've seen of Kirkman's other creative efforts, Walking Dead is his magnum opus and I don't see him branching out into anything else of worth. I think as long as he keeps getting checks, he will keep making Walking Dead comics. And those comics will provide fodder for a show. As for the passage of time in the comics, the comics "cheat"... a LOT. From the beginning to "now" in the comics, only about 1.75 years have passed. Coral is still a "child" of around 10 or 11... Rick is still in his 30s. And outside of variations in hair length, facial hair and wounds, Rick and Coral look virtually THE SAME as they did in issue one as they do "now". as Indiana Jones said it isn't the age its the mileage... Rick and Coral in the comics are beat to shit and look it... but they are a "young" beat to shit if that makes any sense. (what follows are comics spoilers but I will try to speak in non-specific generalities as much as possible) Click To View Spoiler Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 12/16/2016 10:40:00 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 12/16/2016 2:13:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
I don't think Red "wanted to die" as much as she realized that she (Red) was in a non-survive situation. If she continued to drive and showed Michonne right where the Savior's compound was (and she somehow lived) Negan would most likely kill her for aiding Michonne (probably in a pretty brutal way). Or he might harm or kill her friends or family. Or if she survived and returned to the compound without her gun and vehicle, the Saviors would ask questions and she would again either wind up dead or demoted to "the fence" or worse. And if she refuses to show Michonne where the compound is, Michonne will kill her. Likewise Michonne will kill her anyway to prevent her from reporting Michonne's plans. I imagine Red told Michonne about the suppressor simply to encourage her to shoot her in the head, rather than kill her in some other more painful way. The whole line of dialogue read like "just go ahead and shoot me already" to me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
Originally Posted By sircam671:
Why did the redhead want Michonne to kill her? I don't think Red "wanted to die" as much as she realized that she (Red) was in a non-survive situation. If she continued to drive and showed Michonne right where the Savior's compound was (and she somehow lived) Negan would most likely kill her for aiding Michonne (probably in a pretty brutal way). Or he might harm or kill her friends or family. Or if she survived and returned to the compound without her gun and vehicle, the Saviors would ask questions and she would again either wind up dead or demoted to "the fence" or worse. And if she refuses to show Michonne where the compound is, Michonne will kill her. Likewise Michonne will kill her anyway to prevent her from reporting Michonne's plans. I imagine Red told Michonne about the suppressor simply to encourage her to shoot her in the head, rather than kill her in some other more painful way. The whole line of dialogue read like "just go ahead and shoot me already" to me. Sounds like the most reasonable explanation. I just really didn't pick up that she was so beaten down by living with Negan that she was ready to die. It's pretty hard to push a person past the point of wanting to survive - past the point that they won't even *hope* that their captor will give them a "leave me chained to a radiator with half a hack saw blade" chance to survive. She looked like she still had some blood in her. |
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Posted: 12/16/2016 4:52:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryI read The Walking Dead comic timeline on wiki, and I have to agree. The writers will either end the show after the Savior's war, or they'll have to come up with something different. The trading, fishing, fairs, and Whispers, Negan, Alpha, Beta thing sounds absolutely terrible. The comic timeline is going for a bridge too far. |
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Posted: 12/18/2016 3:45:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: d1jinx]
[#13]
I guess it's safe to say heath is gonna be dead soon. He's the new star of 24.
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Posted: 12/18/2016 4:55:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d1jinx:
I guess it's safe to say heath is gonna be dead soon. He's the new star of 24. Tell me he's not a black Jack Bauer. |
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Posted: 12/18/2016 5:05:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By APPARITION:
Tell me he's not a black Jack Bauer. Same premise |
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Posted: 12/18/2016 5:33:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By APPARITION:
Tell me he's not a black Jack Bauer. Angry vet it would appear. |
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Posted: 12/18/2016 8:54:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sircam671:
Why did the redhead want Michonne to kill her? possibly setting the tone that life as a savior isn't that great |
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Posted: 12/18/2016 9:19:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Qweevox:
I read The Walking Dead comic timeline on wiki, and I have to agree. The writers will either end the show after the Savior's war, or they'll have to come up with something different. The trading, fishing, fairs, and Whispers, Negan, Alpha, Beta thing sounds absolutely terrible. The comic timeline is going for a bridge too far. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Qweevox:
I read The Walking Dead comic timeline on wiki, and I have to agree. The writers will either end the show after the Savior's war, or they'll have to come up with something different. The trading, fishing, fairs, and Whispers, Negan, Alpha, Beta thing sounds absolutely terrible. The comic timeline is going for a bridge too far. They just need to do their own thing after the Negan storyline. I would FUCKING LOVE to see Rick and crew vs crazy ex-Military General and his goonsquad |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/19/2016 2:28:59 PM EDT
[#19]
I'd rather Negan whack Rick and we follow Negan around for a few seasons.
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Posted: 12/19/2016 6:44:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDiggler:
I'd rather Negan whack Rick and we follow Negan around for a few seasons. I have to agree, Negan is more interesting, and in a weird way, more likable. |
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Posted: 12/20/2016 1:25:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDiggler:
I'd rather Negan whack Rick and we follow Negan around for a few seasons. Rocks back on his heals "Deheeee Diggler show me you're a star!" |
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Posted: 12/20/2016 1:29:34 AM EDT
[#22]
How sweet would it be to find out that before the zompoc that Negan was the Braves left fielder?
Maybe just got to the bigs for a cup of coffee but WAS in the lineup the day the SHTF. That would be awesome. 
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Posted: 12/20/2016 9:32:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
New name, new character. Same premise Love 24 but he seems disappointing. Guess I'll watch and hope they prove me wrong. |
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Posted: 12/20/2016 9:35:19 AM EDT
[#24]
We can't really blame the actor for the show runners not using his character in the show.
The character of Heath is criminally underused. He is the most background of all the background red shirt characters. They developed Olivia more than they've developed Heath. |
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Posted: 12/20/2016 9:59:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Qweevox:
I have to agree, Negan is more interesting, and in a weird way, more likable. I think it is because Negan has the ability to think and plan ahead, it gives his character depth. Rick is like an overgrown child. Rick can't think of anything but what he wants now. After he finds guns and food does he stop to think "Hmm Negan has shown up without warning before, should I drive the new found goods right home and risk losing them?" no he just blunders towards his goal without a second thought. Even the boat scene he was like a toddler who sees cookies on the counter so he grabs the first thing he sees that will help him reach his goal with nary a thought about whether or not it is a good idea. That leaky boat scene was toddler Rick balancing on an unstable chair, teetering precariously trying to reach his cookies and after he got them he walked right back into his living room without a single thought that mother might catch him with an arm load of treats. |
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Posted: 12/20/2016 11:01:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
How sweet would it be to find out that before the zompoc that Negan was the Braves left fielder? Maybe just got to the bigs for a cup of coffee but WAS in the lineup the day the SHTF. That would be awesome. That's not quite the history the comic gives him. |
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Posted: 12/20/2016 11:03:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bob1946:
I think it is because Negan has the ability to think and plan ahead, it gives his character depth. Rick is like an overgrown child. Rick can't think of anything but what he wants now. After he finds guns and food does he stop to think "Hmm Negan has shown up without warning before, should I drive the new found goods right home and risk losing them?" no he just blunders towards his goal without a second thought. Even the boat scene he was like a toddler who sees cookies on the counter so he grabs the first thing he sees that will help him reach his goal with nary a thought about whether or not it is a good idea. That leaky boat scene was toddler Rick balancing on an unstable chair, teetering precariously trying to reach his cookies and after he got them he walked right back into his living room without a single thought that mother might catch him with an arm load of treats. In that regard the writers do the character a disservice. Remember how Rick formed his group into a cohesive team after they left Herschel's farm? They took down the prison like a boss. They were welcomed into Alexandria as protectors, but now they have let the place fall. The essential difference between Rick and Negan is, Rick enforces no discipline. Negan's methods are over-the-top and ultimately unsound, but he is able to manage what amounts to a large feudal society. Somewhere in the gray area between them lies a viable alternative. |
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Posted: 12/21/2016 9:18:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Heard a cool but completely unsupported theory that Boots could be Morales from S1 - the Hispanic guy who took his family and split off from the main group back at the quarry. Wouldn't that be awesome? The writers could burn all kinds of time doing his flashbacks...
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Posted: 12/21/2016 10:44:26 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sircam671:
Heard a cool but completely unsupported theory that Boots could be Morales from S1 - the Hispanic guy who took his family and split off from the main group back at the quarry. Wouldn't that be awesome? The writers could burn all kinds of time doing his flashbacks... Pretty thin. Even thinner than Morgan's reunion with Rick. Terminus provided the collection point for that event, and it was still pretty thin. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2016 10:57:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Will Eugene get the "Easy Street" treatment?
I haven't heard that tune in a while. |
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Posted: 12/21/2016 10:59:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TX_M1:
Will Eugene get the "Easy Street" treatment? I haven't heard that tune in a while. I doubt it but I hope so because it is the best song I've ever heard |
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Posted: 12/21/2016 11:08:06 AM EDT
[#32]
I have extreme doubt that we will ever see Morales and his family again. I think their "plan" was to link up with other family members in Alabama, which would have been the complete opposite direction of Washington DC.
They kept the character of Morgan alive through cameos and glimpses until he was reintroduced, but having no mention of Morales since season one he is more or less off the story radar. |
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Posted: 12/21/2016 11:09:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TX_M1:
Will Eugene get the "Easy Street" treatment? I haven't heard that tune in a while. Eugene doesn't need to be broken. He's a wimp and can simply be verbally threatened to get things done. It's his knowledge of things mechanical that is invaluable. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2016 11:32:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Qweevox:
I have to agree, Negan is more interesting, and in a weird way, more likable. I like the guy. He gets shit done. It's not stuff that I could get on board with... but I see the method to his "madness." For example... using Lucille on one person from each group upon meeting them. Yeah, he kills one person. But by making an example, it mostly keeps EVERYONE in line, in both his camp and the newly conquered group. Without that, how many groups would get froggy and try to take him down? How many lives... both from his group AND the conquered group... would be lost? And over time, with more groups, he'd be destined to fall just because of continued gradual losses of his men. I'm not putting morality into the equation, obviously... but from a standpoint of standing tall in an anarchy-filled, violent post-apocalyptic world, it works. Gutting Spencer? Yeah, I'd be on board with that. As soon as Spencer approached Negan, I turned to my GF and said, "Negan ain't gonna respect that." Sort of like Young Guns, when Billy took out McCluskey after a skirmish because he glanced at one of the guys they captured. Sometimes people just aren't worth the risk. |
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Posted: 12/21/2016 2:03:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sircam671:
Heard a cool but completely unsupported theory that Boots could be Morales from S1 - the Hispanic guy who took his family and split off from the main group back at the quarry. Wouldn't that be awesome? The writers could burn all kinds of time doing his flashbacks... They left Morales outside of Atlanta - 650 miles away. They made the route in between a giant wasteland - they can't have everyone they've encountered in the past miraculously show up in the same place. |
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Posted: 12/21/2016 9:38:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nailcrusher:
Eugene doesn't need to be broken. He's a wimp and can simply be verbally threatened to get things done. It's his knowledge of things mechanical that is invaluable. Which makes him a bit less predictable. Oh sure, he's working for Negan today but as soon as Rick shows up he will start working for Rick. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2016 11:58:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Did Rick give Negan the two grenades from the cabin?
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Posted: 12/23/2016 3:29:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNC:
In that regard the writers do the character a disservice. Remember how Rick formed his group into a cohesive team after they left Herschel's farm? They took down the prison like a boss. They were welcomed into Alexandria as protectors, but now they have let the place fall. The essential difference between Rick and Negan is, Rick enforces no discipline. Negan's methods are over-the-top and ultimately unsound, but he is able to manage what amounts to a large feudal society. Somewhere in the gray area between them lies a viable alternative. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNC:
Originally Posted By bob1946:
I think it is because Negan has the ability to think and plan ahead, it gives his character depth. Rick is like an overgrown child. Rick can't think of anything but what he wants now. After he finds guns and food does he stop to think "Hmm Negan has shown up without warning before, should I drive the new found goods right home and risk losing them?" no he just blunders towards his goal without a second thought. Even the boat scene he was like a toddler who sees cookies on the counter so he grabs the first thing he sees that will help him reach his goal with nary a thought about whether or not it is a good idea. That leaky boat scene was toddler Rick balancing on an unstable chair, teetering precariously trying to reach his cookies and after he got them he walked right back into his living room without a single thought that mother might catch him with an arm load of treats. In that regard the writers do the character a disservice. Remember how Rick formed his group into a cohesive team after they left Herschel's farm? They took down the prison like a boss. They were welcomed into Alexandria as protectors, but now they have let the place fall. The essential difference between Rick and Negan is, Rick enforces no discipline. Negan's methods are over-the-top and ultimately unsound, but he is able to manage what amounts to a large feudal society. Somewhere in the gray area between them lies a viable alternative. agree with you strongly here, but i think bob makes a good point about leadership FOV. rick's is small, immediate, and people-focused. negan is much more big picture, long term, and structural. to my mind, this suggests why rick enforces no discipline, why rick's outfit is such a soup sandwich, and why negan's outfit (though barbaric) is so successful. |
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Posted: 12/25/2016 9:37:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dbmers:
Did Rick give Negan the two grenades from the cabin? Not that I recall. And remember that it took Rick and whatshisname both grabbing the totes to load them onto their truck. When they got back to Alexandria and gave it over to the Saviors it was just one chick casually picking them up with one hand to unload them. They stashed all that shit somewhere along the way. |
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Posted: 12/26/2016 4:49:09 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 12/27/2016 12:27:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gone_Shootin]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
agree with you strongly here, but i think bob makes a good point about leadership FOV. rick's is small, immediate, and people-focused. negan is much more big picture, long term, and structural. to my mind, this suggests why rick enforces no discipline, why rick's outfit is such a soup sandwich, and why negan's outfit (though barbaric) is so successful. And Negan has managed to form a cult of personality, especially amongst the guys that are in his upper level of the pecking order. And he has turned it into a fanaictism that is similar to the SS's fanatic loyalty to Hitler.....Not exactly the same, and it definitely lacks the strict discipline of the SS but similar in it's generalities. An elite guard that is fanatically loyal to their leader. |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 12:38:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
If it is not the literal finale of the show, it will possibly mark the point of no return for the show's popularity. This first half season alone has shown me that the shine is off the apple and without some good righting of the ship they stand to begin the downward trend all shows inevitably face. One day cock of the walk, the next a feather duster. Edit: Then again I feel the need to reiterate my own personal distaste for the "forever show". I like my entertainment to have a good beginning, middle and ending... and I like it more when the creators have actually planned the ending so everything logically flows toward it. Rather than the usual clumsy, saccharine, pandering "ok lets wrap this thing up at the last second" crap that most American TV shows manage. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JsARCLIGHT:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
I always appreciate your commentary. So, you think the "Saviors War" story arc will be the climax of the show. The way these writers burn through story arcs I can't imagine them stretching the Saviors situation longer than 1 or 2 more mini-seasons. If it is not the literal finale of the show, it will possibly mark the point of no return for the show's popularity. This first half season alone has shown me that the shine is off the apple and without some good righting of the ship they stand to begin the downward trend all shows inevitably face. One day cock of the walk, the next a feather duster. Edit: Then again I feel the need to reiterate my own personal distaste for the "forever show". I like my entertainment to have a good beginning, middle and ending... and I like it more when the creators have actually planned the ending so everything logically flows toward it. Rather than the usual clumsy, saccharine, pandering "ok lets wrap this thing up at the last second" crap that most American TV shows manage. BSG is the only series I can think of that did this, or at least did it well. "Well" being very subjective, just that I thoroughly enjoyed it. |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 12:41:46 AM EDT
[#43]
the rpg had 3 rounds when Abraham found the case
1 was used on the biker group 1 was wasted on the Alexandria lake of fire ignition 1 is still in play but not seen when the launcher was loaded onto negan's truck |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 12:53:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
agree with you strongly here, but i think bob makes a good point about leadership FOV. rick's is small, immediate, and people-focused. negan is much more big picture, long term, and structural. to my mind, this suggests why rick enforces no discipline, why rick's outfit is such a soup sandwich, and why negan's outfit (though barbaric) is so successful. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sirensong:
Originally Posted By TNC:
Originally Posted By bob1946:
I think it is because Negan has the ability to think and plan ahead, it gives his character depth. Rick is like an overgrown child. Rick can't think of anything but what he wants now. After he finds guns and food does he stop to think "Hmm Negan has shown up without warning before, should I drive the new found goods right home and risk losing them?" no he just blunders towards his goal without a second thought. Even the boat scene he was like a toddler who sees cookies on the counter so he grabs the first thing he sees that will help him reach his goal with nary a thought about whether or not it is a good idea. That leaky boat scene was toddler Rick balancing on an unstable chair, teetering precariously trying to reach his cookies and after he got them he walked right back into his living room without a single thought that mother might catch him with an arm load of treats. In that regard the writers do the character a disservice. Remember how Rick formed his group into a cohesive team after they left Herschel's farm? They took down the prison like a boss. They were welcomed into Alexandria as protectors, but now they have let the place fall. The essential difference between Rick and Negan is, Rick enforces no discipline. Negan's methods are over-the-top and ultimately unsound, but he is able to manage what amounts to a large feudal society. Somewhere in the gray area between them lies a viable alternative. agree with you strongly here, but i think bob makes a good point about leadership FOV. rick's is small, immediate, and people-focused. negan is much more big picture, long term, and structural. to my mind, this suggests why rick enforces no discipline, why rick's outfit is such a soup sandwich, and why negan's outfit (though barbaric) is so successful. Negan is neither big picture, nor long term, nor structural. Negan is simply a sociopath who enjoys feeling power. Literally everything his character has done since being introduced is a simple-minded powerplay for his own psychotic enjoyment. There's no structure, no building things, nothing. It's simply "I want to enslave people, and have them feed me." |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 1:39:39 AM EDT
[#45]
I really enjoy watching negan on this show. He is freaking hilarious.
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Posted: 12/27/2016 1:50:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mp9fan:
Negan is neither big picture, nor long term, nor structural. Negan is simply a sociopath who enjoys feeling power. Literally everything his character has done since being introduced is a simple-minded powerplay for his own psychotic enjoyment. There's no structure, no building things, nothing. It's simply "I want to enslave people, and have them feed me." If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid. 
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Posted: 12/27/2016 1:51:19 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JeredMD:
I really enjoy watching negan on this show. He is freaking hilarious. Jackie Brown was on today and something about Ordell reminded me of Negan. They have similar strutting over the top deliveries. |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 2:13:22 AM EDT
[#48]
So what ever happened to the wolves? They really played that clan up but they just disappeared after that one attack? Do they work for Negan also?
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Posted: 12/27/2016 8:21:08 AM EDT
[#49]
The Wolves lost nearly all their people in the attack on Alexandria. A few escaped and were later wiped out by Rick in the RV with the AK. Unless some escaped or were held in reserve and we weren't shown it, I think they're all dead.
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Posted: 12/31/2016 1:56:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sircam671:
The Wolves lost nearly all their people in the attack on Alexandria. A few escaped and were later wiped out by Rick in the RV with the AK. Unless some escaped or were held in reserve and we weren't shown it, I think they're all dead. I think Rick killed the last of them. New Year's marathon on now, Gene in all his glory at the moment. Man, the first 3 seasons were so good.... |
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