You gotta be kidding me.  If she shows addiction tendencies, are they gonna tie her to the surgical table and go in cold?

Oh, wait, what'll you bet she shows tendencies and the doctors say it's her fault she can't get opiates to shift blame away from them.

Tell that to the 90 year old woman with fused lumbar vertebrae and bone on bone osteoarthritis in her knees.  Grandma can’t hardly walk to take care of herself without pain meds.

Tell that to the teenage girl who just had acl reconstructive surgery on her knee.

Tell that to the guy who nearly severed his leg in an auto accident.

As much as the left wants to blame GSK, most of this shit started when the govt subsidized meds.

The worst part of all of this is how easy the drugs are to get all over the world, but we're too soft headed to be able to even be prescribed them here.

I had to listen to a spiel from my doctor, my surgeon, and my pharmacist all to get a post-op scrip of Tylenol 3...are you fucking kidding me?!?

I can buy it OTC in Canada.

Actually that's exactly the indication for most of these drugs.  To the point that many state regulations have specified exemptions to allow the patients liberally prescribed opiates.

I always found it funny we had weekly inventory of our morphine syrettes in AFG.  I was like ... "guys, you realize poppy grows on the roadside here ...."

Worse is the alternative of forcing elderly people with chronic incurable pain suffer needlessly. Yet we wouldn't think twice about giving our dog something to stop them from suffering.

BTW why weren't these 'problems' happening before these government agencies and meddling politicians began acting to 'help' us? What was the addiction and death rate of drugs in the late 1800's when no RX's were even required?

How did it work when prohibition 'helped' people who used alcohol that was 'bad for them'? Did it make that drug unsafe by people making it in bathtubs? Did it create organized crime gangs killing each other? Did it tie up police work taking away from finding rapists and murderers as they sought out instead bootleggers?

Enough of of the BS...95% of all opioid deaths is coming not from legal prescribed drugs but from Chinese made feytanal or Afgan heroin smuggled over an open Mexican border...all of which is already illegal, but would not be happening if legal options were available. Stop taking away old ladies with osteoporosis vicodin for Gods sake. You'll leave her with no other choice but suicide or street drugs by 'saving her'.

That gabapentin is some seriously nasty shit. And they are giving it out like candy in order to not be prescribing anything resembling a narcotic. My best advice is to not get hurt, but if you do... You can't rely on doctors for pain management. You're on your own.

You must be reading his comment on another level because I see nothing that says we should outlaw anything.

I read some of your stories about loved ones being in serious pain and not being prescribed pain killers and that sounds horrible.

My experience has been different, with doctors offering to prescribe me opiates like they were candy for transitory problems( the most recent time may havw been 2 years ago, perhaps things are different now).  Which, in my personal case was complete bullshit. But I can see how people with legitimate needs should be prescribed the best available medicine to treat their pain.

That's what I mostly use Oxycodone for when I do use it. During the day I can live with the aches and pains but at night they keep me up for hours and hours. Sleeping pills stopped working and muscle relaxers only work when I'm not too bad. Otherwise i can be tossing and turning till 0400 with back and leg pain. And that doesn't even count the 6 weeks earlier this year when I blew out a disk and was sleeping in a chair in the living room because I couldn't lay flat at all.

Some weeks I don't need any, some weeks I need it every night, more typically is if I over do it physically  I know it. If I am on my feet all day, even if it is doing something enjoyable, I won't be enjoying much by the the end of the day. I went to an RV show with my wife and friends recently and when we were on our way out I had to take a muscle relaxer, an Oxycodone and sit down till they kicked in or they would have had to get me a wheelchair to get me to the car! After about a while I could walk again (my wife did have to drive home ).  Over the counter stuff doesn't touch this kind of nerve pain and I don't understand the whole addiction / getting high thing I guess. I don't feel any buzz from them.

I don't get high from them at all and I don't have a problem stopping. I was taking 6 a day when my back was at it's worse after rupturing the disk and went to zero in two days after a piece of the disk broke  off and it wasn't pressing on the nerve any more. I still have all the chronic pain from Degenerative Disk Disease but at least it is mostly just numbness, aches and pains. Luckily I have a Pain Management Doctor who hadn't been afraid to prescribe and my insurance company and CVS haven't given me any problems yet.

Don’t rain on their parade with facts, they are just getting started! we are also the primary cause and driver of increased healthcare costs, higher insurance premiums, outrageous medical billing practices, and killing hordes of patients with our snake oil antics.

It is.

Elderly are selling their prescriptions is part of the problem. Some nice young man will pick them up, take them to the mill doctor, drive them over to the walgreens, sometimes take them on an errand if need be and drop them back off. Sometimes they sell part of their prescription and are 'short' for the month sometimes they don't use it at all and just put it on the streets. They're highly addictive and do not need to be in circulation. Some old people are getting zonked out on their prescriptions and driving around, using the stove, etc... The fentanyl and heroin are to meet the demand of the new addicts created by prescribed drugs. This shit is not good for society.

At the very least if you're prescribed daily use opiates you should be required to surrender your license.

Not to worry, Alcohol and MJ use are on the rise.

And they are reaping in millions in profit. Just as the lobbyists predicted.

What is medical malpractice and suicide rates for the same age group?

Agreed.

I flushed thousands of bills when my parents died.
Aside from a Tylenol three once in a while they just stockpiled all the pain pills.

I would have kept them but was afraid to have drugs without a script.

Kept all of mine but never need them.  I take one bottle of them when I travel in case I pop that back the wrong way

Yah well, if they over-prescribe opioids, pain will just evolve to be more resistant

I have no sympathy for people addicted to drugs. They are weak and unable to cope with reality. I’ve had knee surgeries, shoulder surgeries, gall bladder out, herniated disc, and just recently, a broken fibula, bicep tendon tear, and rotator cuff tear from a fall from a ladder.  Each time I told the doctor I wanted no codeine based pain pills.  They prescribed Tramadol, and I took maybe three for everything.  I deal with pain, screw those drugs.

Bullshit. There is nothing saying I'm driving  under the influence just because I have a prescription. My father would run his errands and then take his heart and BP meds as soon as he got home when my mother couldn't drive because she had her hip replaced because they affected his faculties. He was not driving while high. I don't either. I mostly take pain meds before bed and if I am taking them during the day someone else drives. Just because I have a prescription and just because it says take twice a a day doesn't mean I'm driving under the influence any more than just because you have a bottle of whiskey in your kitchen means you are driving under the influence.

The war on drugs has morphed into the war on guns.

if it saves one geezer!

No offense but the people that would be involved in a decision like that would ideally not include those addicted to opiates. Putting addicts in charge of our policy on managing the public hazards created by opiate users doesn't seem like a great idea.

You live in fantasy world. There is no logic in what you have just said, nor evidence to support it.

Am I in before people blaming evil evil doctors instead of holding people responsible for their own actions?

Nope.

No. We live in a society.

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/09/26/senior-citizen-drug-dealers/

https://www.aarp.org/health/drugs-supplements/info-2017/selling-prescription-medications-opioids.html

Plenty more on google. Wait for one of the cops on here to chime into this thread if you still won't believe me. The thugs figured out they could get pills from old people years ago, oftentimes way below any street value. Florida had a massive bust a while back IIRC.

Old people turning into dealers, due to the drugs?  You mean due to drug policy.

A psychiatrist in Liverpool UK named Dr John Marks came up with a novel way to treat drug addicts in the 90s.
Instead of prosecution, or attempting to ramp them down with their dosage, or put them on suboxone, methadone etc, he just prescribed for them an ongoing dose of each addict's drug of choice, up to and including heroin.

His intent was helping the addicts to live otherwise healthy lives and stay out of the criminal justice system, the thinking being that drug abuse is a health issue, not a criminal issue (gee, novel concept, right?).

Remember this was in the UK.  What happened?  The US government pressured the UK to cease this project, but the UK did allow it to go on for some time.

The results of this project were absolutely successful.  His patients who were in his "heroin maintenance" group, to whom he prescribed it, didn't suffer from all the diseases (HIV, Hep C, etc) that street drugs and dirty needles pass.  There were far fewer overdoses and deaths, because the drugs they used were of precise dosage and unadulterated with bullshit that the cartels would put in.  The patients didn't commit crimes, simply because there was no reason to do so;  the drug was readily available.

These addicts had jobs, were healthy, and had intact families that weren't broken by a loved one being on the street or in prison.  You know..like many families where a far more dangerous drug is being abused - alcohol.  We've all heard the term "functional alcoholic."

Get this though - over time addiction rates actually decreased.  Giving the addicts heroin didn't make them consume more of it, nor did more people in the group decide to start taking it.  In other words, this project did what the war on drugs couldn't - it stopped the spread of abuse and new usage of heroin.

Why did this happen?  Well, true drug addicts are overcome and obsessed with getting their next fix, and live with anxiety about that.  It takes up a large part of the time and emotional energy in their lives, not to mention commingling with shady people and an ever-present fear of prosecution.

The project removed that element from their lives.  The addicts got their drugs in the morning and spent their lives with their families or at their jobs.  You know, just like the majority of addicts before 1930, when laudanum was legal and over the counter.

When the fulfillment of their now much more normal lives began to bear fruit, many of the addicts were inspired to start removing the drugs from their lives.

Each year, 5 percent of the heroin addicts quit using heroin  all on their own.  No methadone, no rehab center, they just quit.  This rate of success is unprecedented.

Alas, with increased pressure by the US on the UK government, the project was shut down.

Within 24 months, 25 of his patients were dead. Most of the rest were all back on the streets or in prison, and were buying their heroin from unsafe sources once again.

A similar study was done by the Swiss after Marks' study, with 1,000 addicts.

800 were prescribed heroin, 100 prescribed methadone, 100 morphine.  After 3 years, crime among the addicts dropped 60 percent.
Half of the previously unemployed had found jobs.  A third who had been on welfare were self-supporting and none of them were homeless.  83 patients,  on their own,  gave up heroin.

The only thing US drug policy does is provide an opening for cartels.  Our laws and practices actively promote them....they are good "businesspeople" and they won't let an opportunity - unfilled demand - to sell product go unanswered.  So here we are, with contaminated drugs on the street, all in the name of our puritanical crusade against drugs.

There's so much misinformation out there that at one point, the fucking DARE program had to be overhauled because a study showed it was actually increasing the rates of adolescent drug use.

US Drug policy is the equivalent of continually slicing your toe open with a knife, and frantically applying Neosporin and gauze to it, while continuing to slice.

The solution?  Quit slicing.

Not for long - some states have scheduled it, because "it *might* be used to amplify the effects of an opioid."  So basically, some arrests were made for various drug crimes, and gabapentin was found.  This was reported up the chain, and someone decided that "something must be done."  Wait til they figure out that acetaminophen is in Norco - we'll all be fucked.

Ignorant, politically driven morons (see: politician; also see: bureaucrat) are deciding drug policy in this country.  Gabapentin is a safe drug, used off label successfully for a whole variety of conditions.  It's been called a modern day wonder drug.

They are scheduling it, while conveniently ignoring the drug most widely used to amplify (potentiate) opioid effects:  alcohol.

It's used as an anticonvulsant (its original intent), as a mood stabilizer, for diabetic neuropathy, neuralgia, restless leg syndrome, insomnia, anxiety, and some types of pain.  And now physicians will be less likely to prescribe it for patients who need it, because they are afraid of the government's irrational reaction to shit like this.

Politicians should stay out of the doctors office.

I know people die due to poor pain management.  I KNOW they do.  I see it.  Where's that epidemic?  Who's counting the people with cancer who can't handle the pain any longer and ask for hospice?

fear mongering a click bait kills people, that along with some Doctors unwilling to ask for help.  Plenty of blame to pass around.

Up here they made it so you have to wait to the exact day your script expires...so i was 2 days early and they wouldnt give me my stuff.  I told the pharmacist who needs you .ill go downtown and buy it.

Ive got a freezer full of various opiods and only need  certain drugs at certain times. Im sick of the government getting involved in the drug business. If i was an addict i woukd empty my freezer..logic doesnt apply to this debate its run by statist goon zealots who need to fuck off myob

they kill more people than guns.  where are the elected officials now..  POS

Clearly the only answer is more government

Opioids are the new pot needles

Let grampa shoot smack you freedom hating fagguts

Oh no’s old people like morphine let’s all be scared

Go fuck yourself

Time to die

Pain pills such as hydrocodone should be sold next to aspirin, because freedom.

Plus, theres a side benefit, we need more darwin in our lives, not more baby proofing the world because people make bad decisions, darwin helps rid us of bad decision makers.

This. Addicts still get their drugs, while decent people who play by the rules end up fucked, and in pain, because now docs are scared to write scripts due to anti drug crusaders.

Yup. Hey, save the speech doc, your war on drugs is a failure, I  can go out into your parking lot and score pain pills or heroin all day long, its not hard to get.

however I DO need the script to keep from being fired, or arrested, you know, shit law abiding people worry about, which addicts dont give a shit about.  

You have to say "Alexa" first.

More than that are probably alcoholics.  Let’s ban alcohol

Don't forget .gov involvement via Joint Commission meddling, tying reimbursement to satisfaction surveys, etc.

I don’t buy that at all. I’m a lay person and I’ve know opioids are highly addictive since the 70s. Any doctor saying they didn’t know shouldn’t have a license.

Having said that, it’s giant shot show and now legit pain sufferers are getting shafted. Also, I don’t see the big deal with old people being on continual pain meds. My Dad has been on a cocktail of drugs for years to treat various things from sleeplessness to high blood pressure, to depression and stroke prevention. He takes a small cup full of pills every day and has for years. You’re telling me now that a person can’t take pain pills every day? I get it about opioids, I was on them for six months in 1990 before back surgery, but I had no problem functioning at all.

I hope the people who make it hard on everyone to get ANY kind of pain meds will need them and can't get them.

May they live a long life in pain.

Like pot, you dirty hippy?  Or maybe hemlock?

I'll never understand the "it's healthy because it's natural!" argument.

I had my 2nd acl reconstruction two years ago, when they open up both knees, cut out one tendon and drill some holes in the other knee to insert said tendon, pain pills are a must.

I think when the majority of people say they go through that shit and only take motrin they are leaving out the gallon of whiskey they had also.

I do, to some extent.  It's no secret what Purdue did with their marketing of Oxycontin.  Doesn't exonerate prescribers, but there was certainly some dubious info being spread by Purdue to counter the inconvenient fact that their product didn't perform up to their claims.  The solution they recommended only made it worse.

The dog got prescribed some codeine for a condition that cleared up.

Leftover pills went into our first aid bag.

In case the dog needs it in the future.

A friend of mine was on methadone. He never took it. He sold it and bought heroine. Methadone was free so the gov't was essentially paying for his heroine.

I read not too long ago they're looking at reclassifying gabapentin as a narcotic even though it isn't.

I take it. I didn't realize how much it gets abused. I lost the ability to get natural REM sleep when I had Lyme Disease (undiagnosed for 10 years). One of its side effects is it puts you into REM sleep so works great for me. I tried to taper off it a couple of years ago under my doctor's supervision. Wow. Withdrawal sucks. I didn't get REM sleep for about 2 months, it was hell on earth. I had to start taking it again.

As someone who just had 2 spine surgeries within the month (roughly) I'm happy opioid medicine was available to me.  

• On 3/18 I had spinal fusion C4 - C7.  Left with 84 lortab used maybe 3.
• Released from hospital Saturday for T12 - L5 laminectomy.  Gave me 42 lortab.  Took 1 every 4 hours (lowest dose) until Sunday @ 5:00 PM.  None since.  Looks like I have half a bottle left.  
  

I probably I have a higher tolerance for pain than most but also believe that my goal of getting off it as soon as possible plays a role.  My preference for being able to poop and be in pain over using and in slightly less pain also factors in.  For those not suffering from chronic pain, a little self control goes a long way for avoiding the possibility of addiction.  The stuff they give me never really takes the pain away anyway(except the Oxy/Vicodin cocktails they gave me for 4 days straight after my first hip replacement knocked).

I go through about 60 to 70 Vicodin 5-325 a year to give me some relief from back and nerve pain issues when they flare up to the point I need to take something. It has turned into a real problem getting them anymore.  I get a prescription about twice a year for 30 pills at a time and they make me feel like I am a criminal and they treat my doctor like a criminal for letting me have them. This whole crisis thing is BS. I see it as the same thing as the left wanting to ban guns from the law abiding because of a few criminals.

Well said and good analogy.