User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:20:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Government is causing your groceries to double in price and your retirement value has been drastically cut because the buying power of your dollar was slashed. You're advocating to just suck it up and take it because, "Stiff upper lip, tally ho, carry on"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess  What should you do? Let your money be inflated, but take no handout to at least try to compensate? Or if your business was legitimately impacted by the forced shutdowns and media scare then you just get fucked? If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. Government is causing your groceries to double in price and your retirement value has been drastically cut because the buying power of your dollar was slashed. You're advocating to just suck it up and take it because, "Stiff upper lip, tally ho, carry on"? That's the irony of it all. Path of least resistance is human nature and why we'll be a socialist country soon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:20:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So who came up with those programs? Politicians and their friends who got rich from it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:22:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I call bullshit on this. I am going to take flack for this but search Austin Precision Products on this link. ~1.4 million. Did it go to employees, I am absolutely sure it did. But that business didnt slow a single fucking lick (other than back end supply issues) do to covid. Hell they havent been able to keep up with order before, through, and after covid. Maybe the initial 2 wk shut down but with gov contracts it was easy to be labeled a critical business and keep your doors open. I accept the unknowns and the initial desire to go after these loans, but why the forgiveness. That is where is all becomes a grift. This is not an isolated incident, there are millions of businesses who ended up on the same path. So you believe LaRue faked their financials to show a reduction in revenue that wasn't real? That's what they'd have to do if they really didn't slow down. And you say back end supply...ok, so if they couldn't get raw products to make their mounts, what would they have done? They would have laid off workers. Instead they kept all of their workers employed. People think it's more sinister than that, but LaRue is a good example of what my company did. Since they didn't have to lay folks off, they had their normal staff on hand when the economy opened back up and they were able to put the pedal down and make product. If they let folks go, they would have spent a lot of time hiring and training. That's why I think it helped the economy. Our business is construtciton. We were "essential." But we couldn't get materials or equipment (boilers, chiller, cooling towers, etc). We had contracts, but not what we needed to fullfill them. Without PPP, I would have laid off a lot of workers because we couldn't execute the contracts. I won't go back and forth and let this thread do its thing, but I'm trying to help explain it for those with open minds and give my "inside" perspective as a business owner during covid. I'm not trying to argue with folks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:24:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you believe LaRue faked their financials to show a reduction in revenue that wasn't real? That's what they'd have to do if they really didn't slow down. And you say back end supply...ok, so if they couldn't get raw products to make their mounts, what would they have done? They would have laid off workers. Instead they kept all of their workers employed. People think it's more sinister than that, but LaRue is a good example of what my company did. Since they didn't have to lay folks off, they had their normal staff on hand when the economy opened back up and they were able to put the pedal down and make product. If they let folks go, they would have spent a lot of time hiring and training. That's why I think it helped the economy. Our business is construtciton. We were "essential." But we couldn't get materials or equipment (boilers, chiller, cooling towers, etc). We had contracts, but not what we needed to fullfill them. Without PPP, I would have laid off a lot of workers because we couldn't execute the contracts. I won't go back and forth and let this thread do its thing, but I'm trying to help explain it for those with open minds and give my "inside" perspective as a business owner during covid. I'm not trying to argue with folks. We can cherry pick one example out of the whole thing and make an argument one way or another. Explain landscaping companies? They were never shut down. The worked through the whole thing and according to a few owners(whom i know) said they had record years and were busier than ever. I wont even get into the other crooks I found on that website. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:24:34 PM EDT
[#5]
I'll be 100% honest, I was grateful for this. I worked for a contractor when COVID went down and business went down to almost zero. Owner took out PPP loans to keep us on the payroll. Not proud of it, but the government decided to shut everything down so whatever.
I think I received normal salary for 4 months or so before I found another regular job |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:26:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the irony of it all. Path of least resistance is human nature and why we'll be a socialist country soon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess What should you do? Let your money be inflated, but take no handout to at least try to compensate? Or if your business was legitimately impacted by the forced shutdowns and media scare then you just get fucked? If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. Government is causing your groceries to double in price and your retirement value has been drastically cut because the buying power of your dollar was slashed. You're advocating to just suck it up and take it because, "Stiff upper lip, tally ho, carry on"? That's the irony of it all. Path of least resistance is human nature and why we'll be a socialist country soon. Producing nothing and living off public funds is the path of ease. Using the government's rules to reduce your injury is just smart. First rule of captivity is to take whatever food and water your captor offers, when available. Starving yourself for your principles is just dumb. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:27:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you believe LaRue faked their financials to show a reduction in revenue that wasn't real? That's what they'd have to do if they really didn't slow down. And you say back end supply...ok, so if they couldn't get raw products to make their mounts, what would they have done? They would have laid off workers. Instead they kept all of their workers employed. People think it's more sinister than that, but LaRue is a good example of what my company did. Since they didn't have to lay folks off, they had their normal staff on hand when the economy opened back up and they were able to put the pedal down and make product. If they let folks go, they would have spent a lot of time hiring and training. That's why I think it helped the economy. Our business is construtciton. We were "essential." But we couldn't get materials or equipment (boilers, chiller, cooling towers, etc). We had contracts, but not what we needed to fullfill them. Without PPP, I would have laid off a lot of workers because we couldn't execute the contracts. I won't go back and forth and let this thread do its thing, but I'm trying to help explain it for those with open minds and give my "inside" perspective as a business owner during covid. I'm not trying to argue with folks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I call bullshit on this. I am going to take flack for this but search Austin Precision Products on this link. ~1.4 million. Did it go to employees, I am absolutely sure it did. But that business didnt slow a single fucking lick (other than back end supply issues) do to covid. Hell they havent been able to keep up with order before, through, and after covid. Maybe the initial 2 wk shut down but with gov contracts it was easy to be labeled a critical business and keep your doors open. I accept the unknowns and the initial desire to go after these loans, but why the forgiveness. That is where is all becomes a grift. This is not an isolated incident, there are millions of businesses who ended up on the same path. So you believe LaRue faked their financials to show a reduction in revenue that wasn't real? That's what they'd have to do if they really didn't slow down. And you say back end supply...ok, so if they couldn't get raw products to make their mounts, what would they have done? They would have laid off workers. Instead they kept all of their workers employed. People think it's more sinister than that, but LaRue is a good example of what my company did. Since they didn't have to lay folks off, they had their normal staff on hand when the economy opened back up and they were able to put the pedal down and make product. If they let folks go, they would have spent a lot of time hiring and training. That's why I think it helped the economy. Our business is construtciton. We were "essential." But we couldn't get materials or equipment (boilers, chiller, cooling towers, etc). We had contracts, but not what we needed to fullfill them. Without PPP, I would have laid off a lot of workers because we couldn't execute the contracts. I won't go back and forth and let this thread do its thing, but I'm trying to help explain it for those with open minds and give my "inside" perspective as a business owner during covid. I'm not trying to argue with folks. I know a couple businesses owners who outright got shutdown like a gym, barbershop, and a bar. I'm sure a few businesses definitely slowed down for various government inference but of the businesses owners i personally know besides landlords (who are making up for it now) 90% gained business during covid. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:28:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then he's on the hook for it. There've been many businesses busted for this fraud. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is great for sniffing out hypocrites. $790 billion approved $757 billion forgiven https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ Love that part of that website, dick holster I worked for at the time took almost 2 million iirc, and layed ever swinging dick off but his immediate family, and lied to everybody about getting the bail out. Then he's on the hook for it. There've been many businesses busted for this fraud. Mmmm. Indeed there have been. For things like not even having a business, never employing people, etc... Absent @cemac's former employer pissing off some politician or media gadfly, that level of malfeasance is (IMHO) likely not going to get caught. Just too many cases to sift through. I'm glad so many of Arf's business owners had reasons why they got to take the money, and that was OK, plus why 90%+ of the recipients don't need to pay it back. Nevermind paying any interest on what were ostensibly loans. Other people have had reasons too for why their receipt of government funds were necessary, and the response here to those reasons were often less than charitable. It's a bad dilemma many people were practically forced into: 1) Businesses shut down at gunpoint over a bad pneumonia year that got publicity/gotta make payroll somehow with no sales; 2) Gotta' go to college to get a good job/no way you're affording that hyperinflated market the same way the prior generations did, without loans; 3) Get medical care or you die---the ultimate inelastic market/inflated medical bills aren't going to pay themselves as an elderly American through savings, and who would insure a 75 year old? And so on. I guess one of the first things offshored were bootstraps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:28:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Round 2 of PPP required you to show a loss in revenue. Round 1 was trying to beat the lying, scheming, cheaters to the money because the banks got a small percentage so the more they crammed through the higher their revenue. Wells Fargo is a great example of that. Our local banks were turning down people trying to scam the system.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:29:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Producing nothing and living off public funds is the path of ease. Using the government's rules to reduce your injury is just smart. First rule of captivity is to take whatever food and water your captor offers, when available. Starving yourself for your principles is just dumb. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess What should you do? Let your money be inflated, but take no handout to at least try to compensate? Or if your business was legitimately impacted by the forced shutdowns and media scare then you just get fucked? If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. Government is causing your groceries to double in price and your retirement value has been drastically cut because the buying power of your dollar was slashed. You're advocating to just suck it up and take it because, "Stiff upper lip, tally ho, carry on"? That's the irony of it all. Path of least resistance is human nature and why we'll be a socialist country soon. Producing nothing and living off public funds is the path of ease. Using the government's rules to reduce your injury is just smart. First rule of captivity is to take whatever food and water your captor offers, when available. Starving yourself for your principles is just dumb. Ask a Cuban or Venezuelan how that's going. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:30:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess The threads discussing what gun were you going to buy with your recieved stolen money che... oh pardon, "tax money I deserve to get" were ... spicy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:31:33 PM EDT
[#12]
 KoRn - Hypocrites (unedited) |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:33:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Always has been..." Now do Medicare, SS, and Defense spending if you work for .mil and .gov. Everyone has their own sacred bit of government spending that absolutely cannot be touched. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess "Always has been..." Now do Medicare, SS, and Defense spending if you work for .mil and .gov. Everyone has their own sacred bit of government spending that absolutely cannot be touched.  Minarchy FTW. Anarchy for watching the most ignorant of the libertarians squeal in surprise as they find out what human nature is like. Of course, you have to watch them squeal as you stand on the gallows next to them. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:33:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The threads discussing what gun were you going to buy with your recieved stolen money che... oh pardon, "tax money I deserve to get" things were ... spicy. Exactly To be fair the government did get that back at tax time though |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:33:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mmmm. Indeed there have been. For things like not even having a business, never employing people, etc... Absent @cemac's former employer pissing off some politician or media gadfly, that level of malfeasance is (IMHO) likely not going to get caught. Just too many cases to sift through. I'm glad so many of Arf's business owners had reasons why they got to take the money, and that was OK, plus why 90%+ of the recipients don't need to pay it back. Nevermind paying any interest on what were ostensibly loans. Other people have had reasons too for why their receipt of government funds were necessary, and the response here to those reasons were often less than charitable. It's a bad dilemma many people were practically forced into: 1) Businesses shut down at gunpoint over a bad pneumonia year that got publicity/gotta make payroll somehow with no sales; 2) Gotta' go to college to get a good job/no way you're affording that hyperinflated market the same way the prior generations did, without loans; 3) Get medical care or you die---the ultimate inelastic market/inflated medical bills aren't going to pay themselves as an elderly American through savings, and who would insure a 75 year old? And so on. I guess one of the first things offshored were bootstraps. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is great for sniffing out hypocrites. $790 billion approved $757 billion forgiven https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ Love that part of that website, dick holster I worked for at the time took almost 2 million iirc, and layed ever swinging dick off but his immediate family, and lied to everybody about getting the bail out. Then he's on the hook for it. There've been many businesses busted for this fraud. Mmmm. Indeed there have been. For things like not even having a business, never employing people, etc... Absent @cemac's former employer pissing off some politician or media gadfly, that level of malfeasance is (IMHO) likely not going to get caught. Just too many cases to sift through. I'm glad so many of Arf's business owners had reasons why they got to take the money, and that was OK, plus why 90%+ of the recipients don't need to pay it back. Nevermind paying any interest on what were ostensibly loans. Other people have had reasons too for why their receipt of government funds were necessary, and the response here to those reasons were often less than charitable. It's a bad dilemma many people were practically forced into: 1) Businesses shut down at gunpoint over a bad pneumonia year that got publicity/gotta make payroll somehow with no sales; 2) Gotta' go to college to get a good job/no way you're affording that hyperinflated market the same way the prior generations did, without loans; 3) Get medical care or you die---the ultimate inelastic market/inflated medical bills aren't going to pay themselves as an elderly American through savings, and who would insure a 75 year old? And so on. I guess one of the first things offshored were bootstraps. Being in a bad financial situation because of your own actions is one thing. (student loans for gender studies degree) Being forced into a bad financial situation because of a fake pandemic and the government response is a completely different fucking thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:34:20 PM EDT
[#16]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:34:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the irony of it all. Path of least resistance is human nature and why we'll be a socialist country soon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess What should you do? Let your money be inflated, but take no handout to at least try to compensate? Or if your business was legitimately impacted by the forced shutdowns and media scare then you just get fucked? If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. Government is causing your groceries to double in price and your retirement value has been drastically cut because the buying power of your dollar was slashed. You're advocating to just suck it up and take it because, "Stiff upper lip, tally ho, carry on"? That's the irony of it all. Path of least resistance is human nature and why we'll be a socialist country soon. uhhh So, if you go by the numbers ... I mean ... we kinda already are? I think we've passed the midpoint of mixed economy and are now more socialist than not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:35:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being in a bad financial situation because of your own actions is one thing. (student loans for gender studies degree) Being forced into a bad financial situation because of a fake pandemic and the government response is a completely different fucking thing. Agreed But majority of businesses were booming during covid. People had to spend all that free money somewhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:36:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly To be fair the government did get that back at tax time though Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The threads discussing what gun were you going to buy with your recieved stolen money che... oh pardon, "tax money I deserve to get" things were ... spicy. Exactly To be fair the government did get that back at tax time though Gee, mikey, too bad the people they took it from didn't get it back. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:37:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I call bullshit on this. I am going to take flack for this but search Austin Precision Products on this link. ~1.4 million. Did it go to employees, I am absolutely sure it did. But that business didnt slow a single fucking lick (other than back end supply issues) do to covid. Hell they havent been able to keep up with order before, through, and after covid. Maybe the initial 2 wk shut down but with gov contracts it was easy to be labeled a critical business and keep your doors open. I accept the unknowns and the initial desire to go after these loans, but why the forgiveness. That is where is all becomes a grift. This is not an isolated incident, there are millions of businesses who ended up on the same path. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. Well, then there was fraud. You didn't apply for PPP unless your sales tanked. You had to show financials to get approved. Anyone whose business stayed the same or grew didn't qualify. I call bullshit on this. I am going to take flack for this but search Austin Precision Products on this link. ~1.4 million. Did it go to employees, I am absolutely sure it did. But that business didnt slow a single fucking lick (other than back end supply issues) do to covid. Hell they havent been able to keep up with order before, through, and after covid. Maybe the initial 2 wk shut down but with gov contracts it was easy to be labeled a critical business and keep your doors open. I accept the unknowns and the initial desire to go after these loans, but why the forgiveness. That is where is all becomes a grift. This is not an isolated incident, there are millions of businesses who ended up on the same path.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:38:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Impressive,
Larue- 1.4mil- forgiven Not sure of the actual names of the other big players we see. I.E. Geissele doesn't come up with anything but I am sure they are on the list. ETA- Brownells over 5mil forgiven. How much did the ARFCOM sale cost? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:38:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being in a bad financial situation because of your own actions is one thing. (student loans for gender studies degree) Being forced into a bad financial situation because of a fake pandemic and the government response is a completely different thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is great for sniffing out hypocrites. $790 billion approved $757 billion forgiven https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ Love that part of that website, dick holster I worked for at the time took almost 2 million iirc, and layed ever swinging dick off but his immediate family, and lied to everybody about getting the bail out. Then he's on the hook for it. There've been many businesses busted for this fraud. Mmmm. Indeed there have been. For things like not even having a business, never employing people, etc... Absent @cemac's former employer pissing off some politician or media gadfly, that level of malfeasance is (IMHO) likely not going to get caught. Just too many cases to sift through. I'm glad so many of Arf's business owners had reasons why they got to take the money, and that was OK, plus why 90%+ of the recipients don't need to pay it back. Nevermind paying any interest on what were ostensibly loans. Other people have had reasons too for why their receipt of government funds were necessary, and the response here to those reasons were often less than charitable. It's a bad dilemma many people were practically forced into: 1) Businesses shut down at gunpoint over a bad pneumonia year that got publicity/gotta make payroll somehow with no sales; 2) Gotta' go to college to get a good job/no way you're affording that hyperinflated market the same way the prior generations did, without loans; 3) Get medical care or you die---the ultimate inelastic market/inflated medical bills aren't going to pay themselves as an elderly American through savings, and who would insure a 75 year old? And so on. I guess one of the first things offshored were bootstraps. Being in a bad financial situation because of your own actions is one thing. (student loans for gender studies degree) Being forced into a bad financial situation because of a fake pandemic and the government response is a completely different thing. ... and being in a bad situation has never and will never justify doing what you shouldn't to get out of it. But the world runs on doing wrongs to (supposedly) stop a wrong from happening. Nobody will put on their big boy pants and do the right thing to stop a wrong. That might take suffering to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:38:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gee, mikey, too bad the people they took it from didn't get it back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The threads discussing what gun were you going to buy with your recieved stolen money che... oh pardon, "tax money I deserve to get" things were ... spicy. Exactly To be fair the government did get that back at tax time though Gee, mikey, too bad the people they took it from didn't get it back.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:39:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So who came up with those programs? I wonder if Ron Klain was involved? I bet he was somehow. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:40:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... and being in a bad situation has never and will never justify doing what you shouldn't to get out of it. But the world runs on doing wrongs to (supposedly) stop a wrong from happening. Nobody will put on their big boy pants and do the right thing to stop a wrong. That might take suffering to do. Weak men cycle on the chart |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:41:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://external-preview.redd.it/jvfC4vhlXK37lyCfOpj5HrDc40UZSxZEVzb0oncFUZw.jpg?auto=webp&s=70d0a13e8638253f0df7eec211059c7fa387b64b Minarchy FTW. Anarchy for watching the most ignorant of the libertarians squeal in surprise as they find out what human nature is like. Of course, you have to watch them squeal as you stand on the gallows next to them. https://en.meming.world/images/en/5/5d/James_Franco_First_Time.jpg Military is one thing; world-spanning empire is something else. But, after the Brits gave up the mantle in 1945, someone had to be the guarantor of trade routes, and it was better for everyone that it not be the Soviet Union. That's a far cry from the self-protection and civil order contemplated by minarchists though. You have to give the defense industry this: we certainly got a tremendously effective military for the money, in much the same way that Michael Bay makes tremendous spectacles on a movie screen. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:42:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being in a bad financial situation because of your own actions is one thing. (student loans for gender studies degree) Being forced into a bad financial situation because of a fake pandemic and the government response is a completely different fucking thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is great for sniffing out hypocrites. $790 billion approved $757 billion forgiven https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ Love that part of that website, dick holster I worked for at the time took almost 2 million iirc, and layed ever swinging dick off but his immediate family, and lied to everybody about getting the bail out. Then he's on the hook for it. There've been many businesses busted for this fraud. Mmmm. Indeed there have been. For things like not even having a business, never employing people, etc... Absent @cemac's former employer pissing off some politician or media gadfly, that level of malfeasance is (IMHO) likely not going to get caught. Just too many cases to sift through. I'm glad so many of Arf's business owners had reasons why they got to take the money, and that was OK, plus why 90%+ of the recipients don't need to pay it back. Nevermind paying any interest on what were ostensibly loans. Other people have had reasons too for why their receipt of government funds were necessary, and the response here to those reasons were often less than charitable. It's a bad dilemma many people were practically forced into: 1) Businesses shut down at gunpoint over a bad pneumonia year that got publicity/gotta make payroll somehow with no sales; 2) Gotta' go to college to get a good job/no way you're affording that hyperinflated market the same way the prior generations did, without loans; 3) Get medical care or you die---the ultimate inelastic market/inflated medical bills aren't going to pay themselves as an elderly American through savings, and who would insure a 75 year old? And so on. I guess one of the first things offshored were bootstraps. Being in a bad financial situation because of your own actions is one thing. (student loans for gender studies degree) Being forced into a bad financial situation because of a fake pandemic and the government response is a completely different fucking thing. No one forced people to own a business in an industry that the government can deem non-essential. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:42:44 PM EDT
[#28]
@ James Jones. You are 83 years late. We were a socialist country in 1940.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:43:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed But majority of businesses were booming during covid. People had to spend all that free money somewhere. Retail businesses. Morons getting stimmy checks got me zero revenue |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:43:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being in a bad financial situation because of your own actions is one thing. (student loans for gender studies degree) Being forced into a bad financial situation because of a fake pandemic and the government response is a completely different fucking thing. Sure it is. You keep on believing that everyone else's bad fortune that needs government money was due to their bad choices, but your need was instead purely due to forces beyond your control. So, did you pay back the loan, or what? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:46:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: uhhh So, if you go by the numbers ... I mean ... we kinda already are? I think we've passed the midpoint of mixed economy and are now more socialist than not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess What should you do? Let your money be inflated, but take no handout to at least try to compensate? Or if your business was legitimately impacted by the forced shutdowns and media scare then you just get fucked? If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. Government is causing your groceries to double in price and your retirement value has been drastically cut because the buying power of your dollar was slashed. You're advocating to just suck it up and take it because, "Stiff upper lip, tally ho, carry on"? That's the irony of it all. Path of least resistance is human nature and why we'll be a socialist country soon. uhhh So, if you go by the numbers ... I mean ... we kinda already are? I think we've passed the midpoint of mixed economy and are now more socialist than not. We're toast. It's just that everyone else is more burned than we are. We're in the "falling apart slowly," portion of the decline. The "all at once," part that follows it might come in 200 years from now (Rome lasted a very long time past the Graachi) or it might hit next year. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:46:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one forced people to own a business in an industry that the government can deem non-essential. lol not sure if serious |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:47:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Gathered up half my staff and gave them pink slips because I couldn't ship product. Oh yes, it was a great moment in capitalism. We went round and round with FedEx because they would only ship food or medicine those first few weeks.
No Mercedes in my driveway either. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:47:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ James Jones. You are 83 years late. We were a socialist country in 1940. Arguably, to prevent us from becoming a Communist one. Shrug. I can see it. The Depression was bad, and governments have toppled for less. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:48:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: This is great for sniffing out hypocrites. $790 billion approved $757 billion forgiven https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ agree lots of 'conservatives' sucked that PPP nipple horrible 'solutions' we should all be ashamed of across the board putting people on vents. massive vaccine efforts with sus data. lay-offs due to non vax. shutting down schools. closing businesses. massive spending 'stimulus' / fraud. just horrible decisions right down the line... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:49:32 PM EDT
[#36]
at this point if you are not defrauding the gov. you are the idiot.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:49:40 PM EDT
[#37]
As a business owner I have this take on it. My company's name isn't on the list and that's a good and bad thing, I guess. Its good we made it but kind of mad that I didn't take advantage of that sweet sweet free PPP check.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:51:13 PM EDT
[#38]
I never made any deal on social security tax or property tax or Medicare Tax or withholding tax.
But some species of a mother fucker comes along and wants to give money away if I can jump through the hoops I'm a froggy motherfucker. I did not make the rules . |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:51:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: agree lots of 'conservatives' sucked that PPP nipple  Play chess, not checkers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 5:51:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retail businesses. Morons getting stimmy checks got me zero revenue Contractors, manufacturering, landscapers, and coffee shop owners I know all made record revenue during the pandemic. My business in a particular became full time and I quit my 9-5 because I got so busy. It definitely slowed down but gave me the nudge I needed to take the risk and focus on it full time. I'm doing good now and would of been good either way but I'd be lying if I told you covid wasn't a huge boost in jobs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:00:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Military is one thing; world-spanning empire is something else. But, after the Brits gave up the mantle in 1945, someone had to be the guarantor of trade routes, and it was better for everyone that it not be the Soviet Union. That's a far cry from the self-protection and civil order contemplated by minarchists though. You have to give the defense industry this: we certainly got a tremendously effective military for the money, in much the same way that Michael Bay makes tremendous spectacles on a movie screen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://external-preview.redd.it/jvfC4vhlXK37lyCfOpj5HrDc40UZSxZEVzb0oncFUZw.jpg?auto=webp&s=70d0a13e8638253f0df7eec211059c7fa387b64b Minarchy FTW. Anarchy for watching the most ignorant of the libertarians squeal in surprise as they find out what human nature is like. Of course, you have to watch them squeal as you stand on the gallows next to them. https://en.meming.world/images/en/5/5d/James_Franco_First_Time.jpg Military is one thing; world-spanning empire is something else. But, after the Brits gave up the mantle in 1945, someone had to be the guarantor of trade routes, and it was better for everyone that it not be the Soviet Union. That's a far cry from the self-protection and civil order contemplated by minarchists though. You have to give the defense industry this: we certainly got a tremendously effective military for the money, in much the same way that Michael Bay makes tremendous spectacles on a movie screen. And perfideous albion also used their empire's navy to destroy the slave trade. It may be one of the vanishingly few things ever done by a government and a people group that is more good than bad on the whole. Brits may be a mess and etc, but they ought to be proud of that part of their history.  Failed To Load Title  The Hidden Truth Behind The End Of Slavery - Thomas Sowell And both of those leave a significant amount unsaid. Sowell covered it in more detail in one of his books. Like the real unvarnished histories of what happened at thermopalaye, the history of how the brits murdered the international slave trade with their navy is something to behold. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:02:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Contractors, manufacturering, landscapers, and coffee shop owners I know all made record revenue during the pandemic. My business in a particular became full time and I quit my 9-5 because I got so busy. It definitely slowed down but gave me the nudge I needed to take the risk and focus on it full time. I'm doing good now and would of been good either way but I'd be lying if I told you covid wasn't a huge boost in jobs. Depends on various factors. But my rev was down. PPP meant keeping half of the employees employed instead of on unemployment. Revenue didnt recover until last year. Again, didn’t want it and would’ve voted against if I was a Rep, but I’m not. My job is to keep my business running, not run the country. Some of y’all are still incredibly naive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:04:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arguably, to prevent us from becoming a Communist one. Shrug. I can see it. The Depression was bad, and governments have toppled for less. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @ James Jones. You are 83 years late. We were a socialist country in 1940. Arguably, to prevent us from becoming a Communist one. Shrug. I can see it. The Depression was bad, and governments have toppled for less. When you get into the histories, you find out that the socialist crap that was done to save things, made them all worse. If you go by how a depression is/was defined, the FDR ... administration ... managed to create a depression in the middle of a depression. Irony that idiots say the war got us out of it by having the government orgnaize wartime production ... no, it was because when the war came along, FDR and cronies had to back off on the crap they were doing. ... and nobody, I mean nobody, talks about the depressions that came before we started soing wrong stuff to try and stop depressions - because those depressions (they called them what they really are... panics) were short lived, and sorted themselves out quickly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:05:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you’re legitimately impacted by medical or educational expenses? Do you just get fucked then as well? If we accept socialism for one cause, then why not accept it universally? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What should you do? Let your money be inflated, but take no handout to at least try to compensate? Or if your business was legitimately impacted by the forced shutdowns and media scare then you just get fucked? What if you’re legitimately impacted by medical or educational expenses? Do you just get fucked then as well? If we accept socialism for one cause, then why not accept it universally? Dude do you go protest at the fire station every week? Because that's fucking socialism. The government shuts down your business? They should compensate you. And they should be shot too but that's another story. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:05:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never made any deal on social security tax or property tax or Medicare Tax or withholding tax. But some species of a mother fucker comes along and wants to give money away if I can jump through the hoops I'm a froggy motherfucker. I did not make the rules . When you jump through the hoops you are saying the hoops are good enough to make you jump. If not enough people jump through the hoops, the hoops don't get made, or get taken down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:06:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Business owner Arf was all about capitalism unless we're talking about PPP loans I learned. Eta I approve of communism as long as my pockets are lined I guess What should you do? Let your money be inflated, but take no handout to at least try to compensate? Or if your business was legitimately impacted by the forced shutdowns and media scare then you just get fucked? If you got shutdown I could understand but majority of people who I personally know that took ppp had way more business during covid. The PPP was the cherry on top. It was like getting extra groceries and then taking foodstamps for them. My business took off during covid and I didn't need ppp. I agree. It was Trump handing out freebies to business owners. Trump is a fucking liberal and he gave an extra $600 per week on top of state unemployment if you were scared of the rona. So everyone quit their fucking jobs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:06:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about those of use that gave the finger to the government and rode out the pain? How come the small business owner never gets applauded for their contribution to the pandemic. We fucking kept going. I still wouldn't take a cent of government blood money like PPP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In this thread we'll see a bunch of blow hards who don't know fuck about shit, ride in on their very tall white horse and tell people who actually drive the economy and produce things how they should bend over and take it from the government as they scrapped the economy, drove up inflation, shredded retirement value. Not surprising. Pathetic... but no surprise. What about those of use that gave the finger to the government and rode out the pain? How come the small business owner never gets applauded for their contribution to the pandemic. We fucking kept going. I still wouldn't take a cent of government blood money like PPP. You got fucked. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:07:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you get into the histories, you find out that the socialist crap that was done to save things, made them all worse. If you go by how a depression is/was defined, the FDR ... administration ... managed to create a depression in the middle of a depression. Irony that idiots say the war got us out of it by having the government orgnaize wartime production ... no, it was because when the war came along, FDR and cronies had to back off on the crap they were doing. ... and nobody, I mean nobody, talks about the depressions that came before we started soing wrong stuff to try and stop depressions - because those depressions (they called them what they really are... panics) were short lived, and sorted themselves out quickly. That is precisely what public education teaches. To go along with nazis are right wing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:07:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol not sure if serious Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No one forced people to own a business in an industry that the government can deem non-essential. lol not sure if serious I plugged in a few ZIP codes for my area. Real Estate agents made bank during the pandemic. I was unaware the legal system shut down and attorneys no longer had clients, because there are some law firms on there as well. All those PPP loans were forgiven. That is just government money being given to them for no reason. I doubt it cost $16,700 for one attorney and her assistant to get a Zoom account. The restaurant, salon, and other owners of businesses adversely impacted I feel for. I hope they were able to use their loans to keep paying employees. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/26/2023 6:08:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Yep, troll thread to pit PPP, student loan, Social Security people and a few other groups all against each other, along with the ensuing shitstorm. I'll just pass on getting into it and do me while you do you.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
