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Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:29:57 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By Jaehaerys:

The Russians have made it clear what they want: the entire political and cultural subjugation of Ukraine, combined with its demilitarization. In other words, unconditional capitulation. That's actually a minimalist goal, by the way. A maximalist goal would be the expulsion of NATO from Eastern Europe and/or undermining article 5. When will people in "the west" understand: The Russians are not interested in negotiations with what they consider to be their food. Moreover, if someone tries to negotiate with them, they interpret it as weakness, as a sign that it's time to push more. And if they are in a position of weakness, they also aren't keen to negotiate, because they expect the same. Given their current position, I don't see any reason why Russia would accept such a peace deal, unless it involved significant concessions.

There exists a chance of a temporary "ceasefire" that will be far more violent than anything between 2015 and 2021, during which the west may strangle Ukraine down in silence so that they won't resist that much when the full-scale hostilities resume in a few years, this time with a fully China-equipped reinvigorated Russian military. The more likely outcome, IMO, is that a hypothetical second Trump Administration tries to force that peace deal, it doesn't work, and the conflict continues on, only with Ukraine receiving little to no US support. Trump's hypothetical "peace plan" (try to force a deal by saying he'd give Ukraine more than Biden did if Russia didn't negotiate) rests upon the assumption that Trump would actually be willing to surge aid, which I doubt he would. It is Trump, though, so anything is possible.
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I agree with everything and I think Trump, after giving negotiations a good faith effort would surge aid to Ukraine rather than stopping it. Not because he want Ukraine to win or cares either way probably. But won't want to look weak or foolish and hasn't been bought by either side. Xiden is sending the trickle of aid while holding Ukraine back, appeasing Russia, because he is compromised by both sides.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:39:58 PM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By NEXT23:
It is VERY clear to me that -

We need to be in emergency/war time footing building Patriot launchers and missiles and a absolute metric shit ton of medium and short range ADA

Drones- by the thousands- millions

Submarines

Ships



Then a plan to deal with Iran, NK, and China
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Yup. In a WWII analogy we are still sleeping, watching the Spanish Civil War. China attacking Taiwan may be like the Sept '39 start of WWII or maybe the Norks attacking the South will be like Pearl...Not perfect analogies but some sililarities.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:42:14 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By CMOS:



And, not a single Presidential candidate has mentioned a word about the National Debt (that I have heard).


CMOS  
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We need to increase military spending now, debt or no debt.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:44:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:44:29 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:


Why does the US get a say in the use of British weapons supplied by the British government?

I insist that the US should not be inserting itself in the conflict unnecessarily.
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We shouldn't. But we are holding Ukraine over a barrel. They don't do what we say, we stop the trickle of aid that they depend on.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:46:13 PM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By Prime:


Moldovan MoD-

https://www.army.md/img/clr.gif

CHIŞINĂU, September 12, 2024  — A contract soldier of the National Army, who was serving in the Joint Peacekeeping Forces, was mortally wounded today, September 12, as a result of a shot with the weapon provided, while serving at the post .

According to the information provided by the Operational Command Center, the incident took place at 17:50. The doctors who arrived at the scene confirmed the death of the soldier. At the same time, a team of police forensics is investigating the case.

The soldier by contract has been serving in the National Army since 2023.

The Ministry of Defense expresses its sincere condolences to the family of the deceased soldier and will provide all the necessary support to elucidate this regrettable case.


https://www.army.md/?lng=2&action=show&cat=122&obj=9252

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"result of a shot with the weapon provided". So he shot himself by accident or suicide.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:47:28 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By stone-age:


If I'm not mistaken it's that "out of nato" part that makes sure that russia can invade again later.

I think russias wet dream would be
1) Out of NATO
2)Russia gets to keep what they've taken
3)Russia is not responsible for fixing anything they've broken
4)Russia gets some of the sanctions lifted
5)Russia gets some time without war to rebuild and modernize their military.
6)They make some agreement to not invade, something they can just break later with little consequences.
View Quote
minsk 3
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:48:15 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:



First, he's repeating something I have not believed, but has been posted in GD. Or rather, GD has apparently been repeating Putin's talking points for him again. He says only NATO troops can enter the targeting info into the western weapons systems, Ukrainian troops cannot do this. I think it's a lie. Can anyone confirm or refute this? I thought Ukraine was fully responsible and capable for entering targeting data for ATACMs launches, for example.

Second, this is why I've been saying that the US government should STOP trying to MAKE the US into a party to the war. We are not and should not be a party to the war. But by micromanaging what Ukraine can and cannot do with the systems we provide them, we make ourselves party to the war. While it may pain me to say it, Putin has a valid point here: if the US is the one saying what can and cannot be struck, the US is a party to the war and therefore a combatant. You can't choose targets for attack and then say "I didn't pull the trigger, so I'm not involved." I absolutely hate the Biden administration for doing this. Give Ukraine weapons and let them fight. That's how a proxy war is supposed to work. This theory of 'escalation management' is and always was BS.
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Agreed on both points.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:51:06 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
There are more out there seeking power and trying get into Congress, like this former CIA Office and Green Beret…:
Link to article: Meet the Kremlin's ideal Congressional candidateArticle is in spoiler below.
Click To View Spoiler
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Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:52:33 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
he chose poorly.
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He had a stupid plan and also executed it poorly.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:53:16 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By TaxPayer77:
I bet we strike a deal to sell Russia, Iran and NK some goodies from our war machine contractors. That's how I'd handle this situation. Cease fire, and you can buy all the fun toys you want from us, special deal just for you, comrades.
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Thats silly.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:53:59 PM EDT
[#12]
US Navy Seal unit that killed Osama bin Laden trains for China invasion of Taiwan

Elite commando team makes plans to help island nation in event Beijing launches war

https://archive.ph/XTnB0
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:54:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Ground drone deleted and yeeted them. 20 sec video.
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Candy gram sounds better  than Landshark.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:56:04 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


I think most agree with that, it’s definitely been said enough.  But you need to convince the people in charge first. Also we’re now paying $1 trillion on just servicing the National debt a year and we are borrowing $1 trillion every 90 days.
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Attachment Attached File


Correct.

Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:56:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Remember, authoritarians LOVE democracy, because it confers legitimacy that is beyond questioning. The US plays into the wrong side when the government advocates for democracy and acts as though majority votes are the end-all, be-all of validity.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 5:59:15 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea:

We previously had discussions in the other thread about Democrats happy to sacrifice Ukraine over open borders. Well they’d be happy to sacrifice Israel, Taiwan, US Defense budgets etc to retain their domestic spending programs and taxes. Obviously with all the Democrats China spying scandals, China is happy to encourage that.
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This is true. Trump, in his efforts to rebuild the military had to blow up the budget/deficit, and agree to the typical demo-commie pork spending to get money for the military. Some members here condemn Trump for adding to the deficit while at the same time complaining about our military cupboards being bare. For every $ spent on tanks and bullets, the dems demanded $$ for welfare, Obamacare, and DEI training.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:01:58 PM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By TaxPayer77:


We could arm the uke bros and the ruskies. Let them fight it out. Classic scene in most glorious Glimmer Man, old warriors let the young ones fight at first, don't rush into battle.
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When you sober up, try to remember there are lots of people dying, including innocent civilians and children, because the Russians wanted Ukraine.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:03:53 PM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By stone-age:


If I'm not mistaken it's that "out of nato" part that makes sure that russia can invade again later.

I think russias wet dream would be
1) Out of NATO
2)Russia gets to keep what they've taken
3)Russia is not responsible for fixing anything they've broken
4)Russia gets some of the sanctions lifted
5)Russia gets some time without war to rebuild and modernize their military.
6)They make some agreement to not invade, something they can just break later with little consequences.
View Quote

And I would ask JD and Trump what does Ukraine get out of this deal? Besides getting fucked? An end of hostilities after all the murder and theft? Fuck that shit!
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:06:54 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

It's because the problem is intractable.

You can cut ALL defense spending, and ALL HHS spending and still not solve the deficit, and those are some sacred cows. I keep posting that really solving the problem requires spending cuts AND tax increases, but that's not popular in a nominally 'conservative' forum. The shock that would be involved in eliminating the deficit purely by spending cuts would blow up a lot of our society. The problem has gotten so big, that someone who is truly fiscally conservative - meaning, someone who wants to minimize debt & deficit - must accept tax increases of some kind. That's why it's gotten so hard to find a 'fiscal conservative.' You can't cut your way out of this mess, not really.

And this is just to maintain the current level, ignoring the fact that Defense is actually underfunded as a percent of GDP in historical terms.
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It would be Great Depression level austerity with increased taxes. Certainly social welfare benefit cuts to make the BLM riots look like a picnic. Probably WWIII is the only solution
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:07:48 PM EDT
[#20]
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Originally Posted By HIPPO:
minsk 3
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Why is it called Minsk 3?
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:08:08 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By Ike838:



Candy gram sounds better  than Landshark.
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For mongo!
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:11:39 PM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
US Navy Seal unit that killed Osama bin Laden trains for China invasion of Taiwan

Elite commando team makes plans to help island nation in event Beijing launches war

https://archive.ph/XTnB0
View Quote

That's cool but even if DEVGRU trained every Taiwanese soldier to SEAL level, it probably won't make a big difference since it won't be a commando-type shooting war. They would be better off getting training from UA drone operators or ADA aces.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:13:11 PM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By Ike838:



Candy gram sounds better  than Landshark.
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Imagine sitting in that deep bunker, feeling safe...when suddenly that big exploding dick on wheels comes peeking in...
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:14:21 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

Remember, authoritarians LOVE democracy, because it confers legitimacy that is beyond questioning. The US plays into the wrong side when the government advocates for democracy and acts as though majority votes are the end-all, be-all of validity.
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Don't forget all the censorship and crushing of opposition...
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:20:54 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By killstick_engaged:
Look man, no Chinaman, Ruskie or Persian ever called me white supremacy
View Quote

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:30:43 PM EDT
[#26]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

That's cool but even if DEVGRU trained every Taiwanese soldier to SEAL level, it probably won't make a big difference since it won't be a commando-type shooting war. They would be better off getting training from UA drone operators or ADA aces.
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Green beret’s are already on Taiwan and Kinmen island training their military.  If the seals are training, it’s for a specific mission that they will be carrying out if/when Taiwan gets invaded.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:33:43 PM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By ServusVeritatis:


Wait, he’s saying this is the next red line after saying that about every single other thing? lol!!!!!
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Originally Posted By ServusVeritatis:
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/LOL-UMAD-BRO1gqf_zps44023202_JPG-109.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXScBx3WwAE8pUT?format=jpg&name=large/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/LOL-UMAD-BRO1gqf_zps44023202_JPG-109.jpgETA — video of the evil midget saying it in tweet below (3 min clip).


Wait, he’s saying this is the next red line after saying that about every single other thing? lol!!!!!


Putin should have thought about the possibility of going to war against NATO when he invaded Ukraine over 10 years ago. Committing mass murder usually results in a severe reaction.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:38:00 PM EDT
[#28]
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


I think most agree with that, it’s definitely been said enough.  But you need to convince the people in charge first. Also we’re now paying $1 trillion on just servicing the National debt a year and we are borrowing $1 trillion every 90 days.
View Quote


<This is exactly why Russia and China are emboldened. America hasn't been this far in the hole financially since the height of WWII. Now you throw the specter of world war on an incredibly indebted nation and it's easy to see why our competitors are acting out, taking advantage of what they see as a golden opportunity.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:38:49 PM EDT
[#29]
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Originally Posted By CMOS:



And, not a single Presidential candidate has mentioned a word about the National Debt (that I have heard).


CMOS  
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Because dealing with it involves painful cuts that will affect virtually everyone.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:45:06 PM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:

Putin should have thought about the possibility of going to war against NATO when he invaded Ukraine over 10 years ago. Committing mass murder usually results in a severe reaction.
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Originally Posted By ServusVeritatis:
Originally Posted By HIPPO:
/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/LOL-UMAD-BRO1gqf_zps44023202_JPG-109.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXScBx3WwAE8pUT?format=jpg&name=large/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/LOL-UMAD-BRO1gqf_zps44023202_JPG-109.jpgETA   video of the evil midget saying it in tweet below (3 min clip).

Wait, he's saying this is the next red line after saying that about every single other thing? lol!!!!!

Putin should have thought about the possibility of going to war against NATO when he invaded Ukraine over 10 years ago. Committing mass murder usually results in a severe reaction.
You would think
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:56:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO] [#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


Why is it called Minsk 3?
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sarcasm on my part… since it’s just another comma before Russia does again what it’s doing right now. Minsk I and II “agreements”
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:57:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GoldenMead] [#32]
The USS Theodore Roosevelt has left the Middle East and is now heading for San Diego.  We pulled the Roosevelt out of the west pacific to assist Israel.  We still don’t have a CSG deployed to the Pacific.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-navy-aircraft-carrier-left-middle-east-ending-show-force-2024-9
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 6:59:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Reported an hr ago.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 7:01:49 PM EDT
[#34]
All in that ass.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 7:20:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


Green beret’s are already on Taiwan and Kinmen island training their military.  If the seals are training, it’s for a specific mission that they will be carrying out if/when Taiwan gets invaded.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

That's cool but even if DEVGRU trained every Taiwanese soldier to SEAL level, it probably won't make a big difference since it won't be a commando-type shooting war. They would be better off getting training from UA drone operators or ADA aces.


Green beret’s are already on Taiwan and Kinmen island training their military.  If the seals are training, it’s for a specific mission that they will be carrying out if/when Taiwan gets invaded.

And exactly why we learn about it now. The Green Berets are doing the heavy lifting and we only just now hear about the hair gel pretty boys. Different missions for sure
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 7:27:34 PM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
<This is exactly why Russia and China are emboldened. America hasn't been this far in the hole financially since the height of WWII. Now you throw the specter of world war on an incredibly indebted nation and it's easy to see why our competitors are acting out, taking advantage of what they see as a golden opportunity.
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The debt is a bigger strategic problem than climate change by far. But the political leadership won't even talk about the problem. Another thing I've long expected is that China would attack us economically as part of their asymmetric menu. They've divested a bunch of their Treasury holdings, but there are other ways to economically harm the US. It wouldn't take much to wreck the house of cards that our 'leaders' made. They are setting us up really well for a collapse. I fear that when the time comes, we will go down without a fight, wrapped up with the internal convulsions of an economic meltdown. Pax Americana is over, dead.

What do you suppose Pax Sinica holds for us?
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 7:43:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GoldenMead] [#37]
Putin’s speech on the US letting Ukraine strike deep into Russia. For those that are interested. And yes ignore the guy who posted the video, just watch the video.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 7:44:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lieh-tzu] [#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
The USS Theodore Roosevelt has left the Middle East and is now heading for San Diego.  We pulled the Roosevelt out of the west pacific to assist Israel.  We still don’t have a CSG deployed to the Pacific.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-navy-aircraft-carrier-left-middle-east-ending-show-force-2024-9
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11 years to build a ship is just staggering. I know they're the third most complicated machines on the planet, but 11 years? Surely Stennis & Bush could be available a whole lot sooner if we were in a jam, right? And Kennedy could wrap sooner? Right?

Maybe we need to hold off on decommissioning Nimitz.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 7:49:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lieh-tzu] [#39]
Real Ukraine interviews - are Ukrainians ready to negotiate?

Honest opinion of Ukrainians: “Should we start negotiations with Russia?”


I've never seen evidence that these interviews are other than what they appear - random street interviews. I've not seen indication that they are curated or cherry-picked to favor specific outcomes.

ETA - Headshot interviews young Russians - is Putin a cool guy? Quite the mix.

Link Posted: 9/12/2024 7:56:01 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Putin’s speech on the US letting Ukraine strike deep into Russia. For those that are interested. And yes ignore the guy who posted the video, just watch the video.
View Quote

These high precision Western weapons have been blowing up Russians in Crimea and other parts of Occupied Ukraine for months now.

I think Putin is bluffing again with more red line BS.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:00:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

These high precision Western weapons have been blowing up Russians in Crimea and other parts of Occupied Ukraine for months now.

I think Putin is bluffing again with more red line BS.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Putin's speech on the US letting Ukraine strike deep into Russia. For those that are interested. And yes ignore the guy who posted the video, just watch the video.

These high precision Western weapons have been blowing up Russians in Crimea and other parts of Occupied Ukraine for months now.

I think Putin is bluffing again with more red line BS.
I agree, but whether he is or not, Ukraine cannot be allowed to lose, and something is going to have to change to make that happen.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:00:15 PM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

Thats silly.
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We should then give Uke bros all the toys so Putty Pute can declare war on NATO/US like he is currently saying. Sounds like it is escalating, so I guess that's good for the Cheney/Bush machine.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:06:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Ukrainian official video of a Russian POW from Kursk.
Captured Russian Soldier Speaks Out About Illusions of War: Inside the Battles in Kursk Region
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:09:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By absael:
I agree, but whether he is or not, Ukraine cannot be allowed to lose, and something is going to have to change to make that happen.
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Originally Posted By absael:
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Putin's speech on the US letting Ukraine strike deep into Russia. For those that are interested. And yes ignore the guy who posted the video, just watch the video.

These high precision Western weapons have been blowing up Russians in Crimea and other parts of Occupied Ukraine for months now.

I think Putin is bluffing again with more red line BS.
I agree, but whether he is or not, Ukraine cannot be allowed to lose, and something is going to have to change to make that happen.

That’s laughable. Ukraine cannot win no matter how much support we give. That’s reality, regardless of what Biden and Kamala say.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:11:50 PM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

That's cool but even if DEVGRU trained every Taiwanese soldier to SEAL level, it probably won't make a big difference since it won't be a commando-type shooting war. They would be better off getting training from UA drone operators or ADA aces.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
US Navy Seal unit that killed Osama bin Laden trains for China invasion of Taiwan

Elite commando team makes plans to help island nation in event Beijing launches war

https://archive.ph/XTnB0

That's cool but even if DEVGRU trained every Taiwanese soldier to SEAL level, it probably won't make a big difference since it won't be a commando-type shooting war. They would be better off getting training from UA drone operators or ADA aces.


Best bet is to dig into the ground everywhere like the Japs on Iwo Jima and pop up to launch anti ship missiles and pop back in.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:16:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

These high precision Western weapons have been blowing up Russians in Crimea and other parts of Occupied Ukraine for months now.

I think Putin is bluffing again with more red line BS.
View Quote


I think China is going to make a big delivery soon if it happens. But we will see.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:17:17 PM EDT
[#47]
More details about the Israeli raid in Syria.

Israeli Commandos Carried Out Raid on Secret Weapons Site in Syria. Link to NYT article

Highpoints
Initial airstrikes destroyed at least four Syrian military positions around Masyaf, including an air defense site.

A second round of strikes hit a building in the complex that connects to underground tunnels.

In the operation’s third phase, helicopters crossed into Syrian airspace and dropped off several dozen Israeli commandos on the outskirts of the bunkers.

As the Israeli soldiers advanced on the bunkers, Israeli drones attacked Syrian military troops who were rushing to the scene, he said.

The main goal of the ground assault was to destroy the facility. An important secondary objective, officials said, was to collect intelligence about Hezbollah’s weapons development.

Qassim Suleimani...urged President Bashar al-Assad of Syria to allow Iranian scientists to refurbish the weapons labs at the site, which had become a key missile and munitions manufacturing facility for Hezbollah.

The facility has, in the past, been associated with chemical weapons production, there was no such work being done there in recent years.  Currenly the facility was making precision-guided missiles for Hezbollah [that] would allow the group to strike targets more accurately in northern Israel.
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Entire article
The missile production facility was destroyed in the attack, according to Western officials. Syrian state media reported that 18 people were killed in the strike.

Israel carried out a commando raid in Syria on Sunday that obliterated a Hezbollah missile production facility near the Lebanese border, killing a number of people at the site, according to American and other Western officials.

The operation included a daring raid by Israeli special forces, who rappelled down from helicopters and apparently seized materials from the missile facility, the officials said. Ground forces were used in the attack because of its complexity and to recover information from the secret weapons site, the officials said, adding that there were no Israeli casualties.

The officials said the raid included airstrikes on the sprawling site, the Scientific Studies and Research Center, which is near Masyaf, in the country’s northwest.

Syria’s state news agency, SANA, reported on Monday that 18 people were killed and dozens more injured. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a group based in Britain that tracks the conflict in Syria, said the strikes hit an area containing a scientific research institute where work on developing short- and medium-range precision missiles is conducted.

Israel has declined to comment on the raid.

Before conducting the strike, Israel notified senior American officials, including Gen. Michael E. Kurilla, the head of United States Central Command, according to a U.S. official. On Sunday, General Kurilla visited the underground war room of the Israel Defense Forces’ Northern Command, where he was presented with the military’s operational plans for Lebanon, according to the Israel Defense Forces.

Independent experts, Israeli officials and the U.S. government have described the institute in Syria as a center of weapons research and development, aided by the country’s ally Iran.

Israel has struck Masyaf, about 25 miles from the Mediterranean coast, several times in the past. In 2018, Israel assassinated a Syrian scientist who worked at the facility developing precision-guided munitions.

In fact, Israel has been gunning for the facility for many years, according to a former senior Israeli official who still advises the government and is familiar with Israeli efforts to neutralize the site.

Chemical weapons were developed there before Syria’s civil war began in 2011.

Years later, he said, Gen. Qassim Suleimani, who was leading Iranian foreign operations, urged President Bashar al-Assad of Syria to allow Iranian scientists to refurbish the weapons labs at the site, which had become a key missile and munitions manufacturing facility for Hezbollah. Israeli officials believe that Hezbollah wanted the facility to be in Syria because its leaders thought Israel would be less likely to strike Masyaf than sites in Lebanon.

One of the Western officials said Israel had attacked the facility several times but could not reach the fortified inner rooms with airstrikes alone. The decision to send in commandos, he said, was to make sure that this time, the site would be destroyed.

The airstrikes late Sunday and early Monday amounted to one of the deadliest attacks in Syria in months. SANA said that in addition to the 18 dead, 37 people were injured in the strikes, including six who were in critical condition. The agency said that roads and water, power and telephone infrastructure were damaged.

Although the facility has, in the past, been associated with chemical weapons production, there was no such work being done there in recent years, officials said.

But the facility was making precision-guided missiles for Hezbollah, which some government analysts feared would allow the group to strike targets more accurately in northern Israel.

Writing in the “Syria Weekly” Substack, Charles Lister, the director of the Middle East Institute’s Syria and counterterrorism programs, offered more details about the Israeli operation.

Mr. Lister said that an initial round of Israeli airstrikes destroyed at least four Syrian military positions around Masyaf, including an air defense site.

A second round of strikes hit a building in the complex that connects to underground tunnels, he said.

In the operation’s third phase, Mr. Lister said, several Israeli helicopters crossed into Syrian airspace and dropped off several dozen Israeli commandos on the outskirts of the bunkers.

As the Israeli soldiers advanced on the bunkers, Israeli drones attacked Syrian military troops who were rushing to the scene, he said.

Officials briefed on the operation said the main goal of the ground assault was to destroy the facility. An important secondary objective, officials said, was to collect intelligence about Hezbollah’s weapons development.

Mr. Lister said the facilities in Masyaf and in the neighboring town of Mahruseh have been central to Syria’s development of ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, barrel bombs and thermobaric munitions, weapons with special explosive mixtures typically used to destroy buildings and tunnels.

Helene Cooper is a Pentagon correspondent. She was previously an editor, diplomatic correspondent and White House correspondent. More about Helene Cooper

Eric Schmitt is a national security correspondent for The Times, focusing on U.S. military affairs and counterterrorism issues overseas, topics he has reported on for more than three decades. More about Eric Schmitt

Julian E. Barnes covers the U.S. intelligence agencies and international security matters for The Times. He has written about security issues for more than two decades. More about Julian E. Barnes

Ronen Bergman is a staff writer for The New York Times Magazine, based in Tel Aviv. His latest book is “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations,” published by Random House. More about Ronen Bergman

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Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:18:00 PM EDT
[#48]
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:

The debt is a bigger strategic problem than climate change by far. But the political leadership won't even talk about the problem. Another thing I've long expected is that China would attack us economically as part of their asymmetric menu. They've divested a bunch of their Treasury holdings, but there are other ways to economically harm the US. It wouldn't take much to wreck the house of cards that our 'leaders' made. They are setting us up really well for a collapse. I fear that when the time comes, we will go down without a fight, wrapped up with the internal convulsions of an economic meltdown. Pax Americana is over, dead.

What do you suppose Pax Sinica holds for us?
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu:
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
<This is exactly why Russia and China are emboldened. America hasn't been this far in the hole financially since the height of WWII. Now you throw the specter of world war on an incredibly indebted nation and it's easy to see why our competitors are acting out, taking advantage of what they see as a golden opportunity.

The debt is a bigger strategic problem than climate change by far. But the political leadership won't even talk about the problem. Another thing I've long expected is that China would attack us economically as part of their asymmetric menu. They've divested a bunch of their Treasury holdings, but there are other ways to economically harm the US. It wouldn't take much to wreck the house of cards that our 'leaders' made. They are setting us up really well for a collapse. I fear that when the time comes, we will go down without a fight, wrapped up with the internal convulsions of an economic meltdown. Pax Americana is over, dead.

What do you suppose Pax Sinica holds for us?

Not to mention china's successful cyber infiltration of our civil infrastructure.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:30:42 PM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:


That is exactly it. We just need to build a colosseum next.
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
Originally Posted By doc540:


bread and circuses are expensive


That is exactly it. We just need to build a colosseum next.


We have 42 NASCAR tracks, 30 MLB stadiums, 30 NBA stadiums and 32 NFL stadiums along with countless college and high school ball stadiums of all flavors, little league and state and regional car race tracks. Uncounted motorcycle tracks of all flavors, UFC, boxing, wrasslin', and those fucking bicyclist. Did I forget anyone? If I did feel free to add them to the list.

Now, I'm not saying sports ball isn't good for kids to play, it is, and the skills they learn are invaluable in life. But let's face it, when it comes to college and pro level, those are your modern day colosseums.

Oh, and if I hear pickle ball one more God Damn time I'm gonna look it up to figure out what it is and find the goose stepping fuckwit that invented it and haunt his ass when I die.
Link Posted: 9/12/2024 8:38:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: THOT_Vaccine] [#50]
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

That's cool but even if DEVGRU trained every Taiwanese soldier to SEAL level, it probably won't make a big difference since it won't be a commando-type shooting war. They would be better off getting training from UA drone operators or ADA aces.
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By GoldenMead:
US Navy Seal unit that killed Osama bin Laden trains for China invasion of Taiwan

Elite commando team makes plans to help island nation in event Beijing launches war

https://archive.ph/XTnB0

That's cool but even if DEVGRU trained every Taiwanese soldier to SEAL level, it probably won't make a big difference since it won't be a commando-type shooting war. They would be better off getting training from UA drone operators or ADA aces.



Wasn't it you that brought up the possibility of infiltration by the PLA and plans for sabotage? (I could be misremembering)

Could be the guys that are good at sabotaging can red team pretty well...

The seaborn invasion scenario seems more and more far fetched. Personally, I think China will try and hit four or five key points around the Pacific, and then try for a "popular coup" that will be really well armed infiltrators.
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