Scientists witness single cell life evolve into multicellular organisms - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Scientists witness single cell life evolve into multicellular organisms (Page 3 of 4)

Posted: 2/27/2019 10:37:17 AM EDT

[#1]

Propaganda.

Posted: 2/27/2019 10:37:59 AM EDT

[#2]

I always love to hear any evidence that life is simpler than we think. If it can happen here than it can happen on other worlds as well.

Posted: 2/27/2019 10:37:59 AM EDT

[#3]

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It's always the same dumbass atheists vs the dumbass theists in these threads with a few insightful posts on each end.

Mostly it's just telling the other side "you're in the wrong line, dumbass."

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Like the guy on page one that probably didn't even read the article and felt the need to type in bold all caps "Bullshit" with no intelligent way to explain why he felt the test results might not have been accurate?

Posted: 2/27/2019 10:40:30 AM EDT

[#4]

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I always love to hear any evidence that life is simpler than we think. If it can happen here than it can happen on other worlds as well.

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A lot of people think that life might actually be the norm rather than the exception (at least within a certain range of environmental conditions), our limitation for testing that now though is we can't physically get to the planets to investigate them, and we likely will never be able to get to different galaxies to further test if we can find a way to efficiently explore our own.

Posted: 2/27/2019 10:43:13 AM EDT

[#5]

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If it is a course-based MS, it is not that hard.

A thesis-based MS would be impressive.

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Everyone that I know who has an MS in biology completed a thesis...

Posted: 2/27/2019 10:45:17 AM EDT

[#6]

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I always love to hear any evidence that life is simpler than we think. If it can happen here than it can happen on other worlds as well.

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Given that chemistry and physics work the same everywhere in the universe, there has to be life somewhere besides our little blue dot.

There are at least 200 billion galaxies. If each one of them has one planet with life on it at any one time, the universe is teeming with life. It's just too bad we can't get to it.

Still, Mars, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto, and Titan are all possibilities to harbor life of some kind. I won't live to see it, but someday men may go there and see for ourselves.

Posted: 2/27/2019 10:48:52 AM EDT

[#7]

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As Catholics we accept that the Bible is a book of Parables.

Therefore...I can accept the theory of evolution.

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Evolution is a process. Creation is an event. Evolution is silent on the origins of life. Creation is all about the origins of life. They are not incompatible, unless one takes the position that it would be impossible for God to create the mechanisms that make evolution work, and that he is also incapable of using evolution as part of his plans. Otherwise neither one contradicts the other.

Posted: 2/27/2019 11:04:30 AM EDT

[#8]

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Like the guy on page one that probably didn't even read the article and felt the need to type in bold all caps "Bullshit" with no intelligent way to explain why he felt the test results might not have been accurate?

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It's always the same dumbass atheists vs the dumbass theists in these threads with a few insightful posts on each end.

Mostly it's just telling the other side "you're in the wrong line, dumbass."

Like the guy on page one that probably didn't even read the article and felt the need to type in bold all caps "Bullshit" with no intelligent way to explain why he felt the test results might not have been accurate?

Yes.
Millions of people are absolutely terrible at communicating in person let alone the written word. This doesn't mean that we're more intelligent or nuanced because we disagree at a 10,000' level. Most times we're just blind to our own suppositions.

Posted: 2/27/2019 11:20:29 AM EDT

[#9]

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I'm more interested in how things got from the first organic molecules to the first cell...

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It was probably something as simple as a Drunk in Public charge. Pretty common stuff around college campuses. And then maybe just tragically devolved into a life of crime after that.

End the tyranny of endless cellular confinement!

Posted: 2/27/2019 11:22:07 AM EDT

[#10]

If life is so easy or throw out 10 solar systems that have life, then why can't we create life?

Not amino acids or building blocks.

I mean dividing cells, even a one celled original life with its own derived DNA but unique DNA type arrangement that is completely alien to the earth.

Its never gonna happen and if it does they will be using something that has already developed or is in existence.

So yes this current news is more of "we found the possibility of life on Mars" and its nothing but a sound bite of some chemical or frozen water.

A non event.

Posted: 2/27/2019 11:25:52 AM EDT

[#11]

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If life is so easy or throw out 10 solar systems that have life, then why can't we create life?

Not amino acids or building blocks.

I mean dividing cells, even a one celled original life with its own derived DNA but unique DNA type arrangement that is completely alien to the earth.

Its never gonna happen and if it does they will be using something that has already developed or is in existence.

So yes this current news is more of "we found the possibility of life on Mars" and its nothing but a sound bite of some chemical or frozen water.

A non event.

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This test didn't claim or attempt to make life.

It was an experiment designed to test the evolution of life.

Posted: 2/27/2019 11:33:21 AM EDT

[#12]

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Propaganda.

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We will see. The beauty of the scientific method is that others reproduce the experiments.

Posted: 2/27/2019 11:42:32 AM EDT

[#13]

So when you put multicellular predators in an environment with single cell organisms it proves that single cell organisms evolve on their own? Neat?

Posted: 2/27/2019 11:59:48 AM EDT

[#14]

Hell I got bread on the counter growing green cells if they needed proof

Posted: 2/27/2019 12:54:42 PM EDT

[#15]

Humans do it, too. Watch as these legionnaires evolve into a phalanx:

In two hundred million years, we predict that the phalanxes will merge together and evolve into a super phalanx.

Seriously, this is complete bullshit. Anyone who knows anything about genetics knows that zero evolution happened here. Their ability to form cooperative colonies sharing an envelope was already encoded in their DNA, and what the study is showing is only an expression of genes that were already fully present. Predation caused those genes to activate.

If you were to identify some of the genes that allow for that, and edit them out, they would no longer be able to form cooperative colonies when under pressure.

Demonstrating evolution would be taking some organism that didn't have the genetic ability to form such colonies and showing that they developed it through mutations. All these hacks have done is prove that intelligent design is intelligent.

Posted: 2/27/2019 1:31:16 PM EDT

[#16]

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There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution.

So much in fact we know WAY more about evolution than we do gravity.

But here is a direct refute to your point and fossils are only a small part of the evidence we have for evolution. The DNA is a slam-dunk.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaenamontanari/2015/11/17/four-famous-transitional-fossils-that-support-evolution/#1b920d152d8d

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There is no point debating the folks that think evolution means a duck can become a horse. Don't waste your time because they obviously have no clue wtf they are talking about

Posted: 2/27/2019 1:39:28 PM EDT

[#17]

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I concur.

Science is supposed to be testable, so test these results further.

Pretty cool though. When we can create unique lifeforms from scratch it will be a milestone of human achievement... and possibly our last if we aren't careful.

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That's a somewhat extraordinary claim.

I'm going to need:

1) Replication of the results from independent researchers.

2) Genetic analysis of the populations before and after the change to multi-cellular occurred. Did genetic mutation occur, or did the stresses merely activate existing genetic features not normally expressed?

^^^^ And that's how you do it. If you're gonna have doubts, at least do it in an intelligent manner.

I concur.

Science is supposed to be testable, so test these results further.

Pretty cool though. When we can create unique lifeforms from scratch it will be a milestone of human achievement... and possibly our last if we aren't careful.

I want a new tasty animal to eat. How about a bovine and swine creature made almost entirely of bacon mignon?

Posted: 2/27/2019 1:41:45 PM EDT

[#18]

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~~Atheist~~ Atheists worship Darwin and Christopher Hitchens instead of Jesus.

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See me after class.

Posted: 2/27/2019 1:57:44 PM EDT

[#19]

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So, my question is: why didn't Chlamydomonas reinhardtii evolve into a multicellular life form in nature? If - as the researchers claim - the multi-cellular version offers additional "protection from predation", wouldn't this have naturally occurred on its own, if it offered an evolutionary advantage?

Sounds like they artificially induced a condition that does not occur naturally, and are using this to "demonstrate" a supposed evolutionary concept.

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Lack of pressure to make it a survival trait?

Posted: 2/27/2019 2:18:14 PM EDT

[#20]

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So, my question is: why didn't Chlamydomonas reinhardtii evolve into a multicellular life form in nature? If - as the researchers claim - the multi-cellular version offers additional "protection from predation", wouldn't this have naturally occurred on its own, if it offered an evolutionary advantage?

Sounds like they artificially induced a condition that does not occur naturally, and are using this to "demonstrate" a supposed evolutionary concept.

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Because stressors exist in the world. In this case the stress was in the form of a predator. So there were two options. Adapt and overcome, or die. The cells adapted to the new environment.

If a greater Chicago urban area full of predators was suddenly introduced into your area, and you were a middle of the road person who didn't have a defense against those predators, would you "evolve" and go get something to protect yourself with? Or would you die?

Posted: 2/27/2019 2:22:26 PM EDT

[#21]

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Because stressors exist in the world. In this case the stress was in the form of a predator. So there were two options. Adapt and overcome, or die. The cells adapted to the new environment.

If a greater Chicago urban area full of predators was suddenly introduced into your area, and you were a middle of the road person who didn't have a defense against those predators, would you "evolve" and go get something to protect yourself with? Or would you die?

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Quoted:
So, my question is: why didn't Chlamydomonas reinhardtii evolve into a multicellular life form in nature? If - as the researchers claim - the multi-cellular version offers additional "protection from predation", wouldn't this have naturally occurred on its own, if it offered an evolutionary advantage?

Sounds like they artificially induced a condition that does not occur naturally, and are using this to "demonstrate" a supposed evolutionary concept.

Because stressors exist in the world. In this case the stress was in the form of a predator. So there were two options. Adapt and overcome, or die. The cells adapted to the new environment.

If a greater Chicago urban area full of predators was suddenly introduced into your area, and you were a middle of the road person who didn't have a defense against those predators, would you "evolve" and go get something to protect yourself with? Or would you die?

A closer analogy would probably be:

If you were someone that wasn't prepared, you would die. Those that are prepared and can protect themselves have a higher chance or reproducing and creating offspring that can also protect themselves.

In your example it's much closer to the thing we try to tell people can't happen (one organism can't just change itself at will, the environmental pressure will select which new offspring are most fit to survive those pressures and that will shift certain traits into favor over time)

Posted: 2/27/2019 2:24:08 PM EDT

[#22]

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You can watch evolution in 2 minutes right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plVk4NVIUh8

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I really hope they nuked that plate on the spot after that was done. 1000x resistant Ecoli... no thanks.

Posted: 2/27/2019 2:28:29 PM EDT

[#23]

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First NASA, now two universities.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/NASA-was-able-to-recreate-the-origins-of-life-and-the-results-are-shocking/5-2197688/?page=1

Both known for participation in the global warming hoax, are now trying to claim evolution? On the same day the senate fails to block infanticide?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senate-to-vote-on-born-alive-bill-to-protect-infants-who-survive-a-failed-abortion

Idk. cell crap is over my head, but this smells swampy.

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Georgia Tech has not been involved in the global warming hoax, to the contrary, their Earth and Atmospheric Sciences department has been headed by two prominent opponents of the anthropogenic global warming theory, Dr. Robert Roper (RIP) and Dr. Judith Curry.

Posted: 2/27/2019 2:38:08 PM EDT

[#24]

I just want my lawn to evolve to grow shorter. I've mowed it hundreds of times, but it just keeps growing. I guess if I mow it for millions of years, it will evolve to stay short permanently.

Posted: 2/27/2019 3:04:29 PM EDT

[#25]

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Evolution is a process. Creation is an event. Evolution is silent on the origins of life. Creation is all about the origins of life. They are not incompatible, unless one takes the position that it would be impossible for God to create the mechanisms that make evolution work, and that he is also incapable of using evolution as part of his plans. Otherwise neither one contradicts the other.

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Our pastor when I was going through confirmation said he had read some of the early bibles in Greek (IIRC.) He said under creation it said something that translates better as "period of time" and not day. IMO w/ that one change they coexist well together.

Posted: 2/27/2019 3:05:44 PM EDT

[#26]

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I really hope they nuked that plate on the spot after that was done. 1000x resistant Ecoli... no thanks.

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You can watch evolution in 2 minutes right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plVk4NVIUh8

I really hope they nuked that plate on the spot after that was done. 1000x resistant Ecoli... no thanks.

That wasn't evolution, it didn't change kinds......

Posted: 2/27/2019 3:07:01 PM EDT

[#27]

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If life is so easy or throw out 10 solar systems that have life, then why can't we create life?

Not amino acids or building blocks.

I mean dividing cells, even a one celled original life with its own derived DNA but unique DNA type arrangement that is completely alien to the earth.

Its never gonna happen and if it does they will be using something that has already developed or is in existence.

So yes this current news is more of "we found the possibility of life on Mars" and its nothing but a sound bite of some chemical or frozen water.

A non event.

View Quote

I think it's bound to happen at some time. They're working in that direction. IMO what you need is enough experiments that are big enough that run long enough. You could speed it up w/ radiation, pressure, and heat variances.

Posted: 2/27/2019 3:14:28 PM EDT

[#28]

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Given that chemistry and physics work the same everywhere in the universe, there has to be life somewhere besides our little blue dot.

There are at least 200 billion galaxies. If each one of them has one planet with life on it at any one time, the universe is teeming with life. It's just too bad we can't get to it.

Still, Mars, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto, and Titan are all possibilities to harbor life of some kind. I won't live to see it, but someday men may go there and see for ourselves.

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You say "there has to be" but that is not based upon any fact, just speculation.

If the universe is finite then unique things can happen and can exist.

For all we know life is unique on earth. We only have one data point. We can't make assumptions without more than one data point, can we? All the evidence that we have now says that the universe is sterile. We need more evidence before we can make any valid assumptions on life elsewhere.

If life was nothing more than chemistry then every Jr High School science class on earth would be producing life as a class experiment.

We haven't produced laboratory life yet by putting organic chemicals together in an environment. That suggest that life is for more complicated than we could ever imagine.

Maybe so complicated that it is unique to earth.

Posted: 2/27/2019 3:14:43 PM EDT

[#29]

South Park - Mr.Garrison's Evolution Theory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL9S-TUikfg

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:00:49 PM EDT

[#30]

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So a living creature evolved into a more complex creature?

Call me when chemicals in a sterile environment turn into a single cell living organism.

Then I'll be impressed.

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Yep the information came from nothing. Evolution, brah.
Ex nihilo aliquid fit

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:03:01 PM EDT

[#31]

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The fact we even have fossils is pretty amazing, it takes some pretty narrow sets of conditions to create one.

Only an infinitesimal fraction of life will ever become one.

To expect to find a sample of every single species as it transitions into a different one over countless generations is to expect far too much. With the fossil record we have though some very logical conclusions can be drawn.

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Pepperidge farm remembers when the only way to get petrified wood took a minimum of thousands of years. And then Mt St. Hellens blew up.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:06:45 PM EDT

[#32]

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Given that chemistry and physics work the same everywhere in the universe, there has to be life somewhere besides our little blue dot.

There are at least 200 billion galaxies. If each one of them has one planet with life on it at any one time, the universe is teeming with life. It's just too bad we can't get to it.

Still, Mars, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto, and Titan are all possibilities to harbor life of some kind. I won't live to see it, but someday men may go there and see for ourselves.

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And you don't think you've assumed a principle a priori which you didn't get, obviously, from empirical evidence, before making that assertion?

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:07:51 PM EDT

[#33]

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It was probably something as simple as a Punk in Drublic charge. Pretty common stuff around college campuses. And then maybe just tragically devolved into a life of crime after that.

End the tyranny of endless cellular confinement!

View Quote

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:10:52 PM EDT

[#34]

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Humans do it, too. Watch as these legionnaires evolve into a phalanx:

https://spartacus-educational.com/ROMmilitary.jpg

In two hundred million years, we predict that the phalanxes will merge together and evolve into a super phalanx.

Seriously, this is complete bullshit. Anyone who knows anything about genetics knows that zero evolution happened here. Their ability to form cooperative colonies sharing an envelope was already encoded in their DNA, and what the study is showing is only an expression of genes that were already fully present. Predation caused those genes to activate.

If you were to identify some of the genes that allow for that, and edit them out, they would no longer be able to form cooperative colonies when under pressure.

Demonstrating evolution would be taking some organism that didn't have the genetic ability to form such colonies and showing that they developed it through mutations. All these hacks have done is prove that intelligent design is intelligent.

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But..but, pressure via predation is a magic entity with agency and being that can cause genetic mutation! It's teleogical as F!

Equivocation much?

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:11:13 PM EDT

[#35]

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Pepperidge farm remembers when the only way to get petrified wood took a minimum of thousands of years. And then Mt St. Hellens blew up.

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Quoted:

The fact we even have fossils is pretty amazing, it takes some pretty narrow sets of conditions to create one.

Only an infinitesimal fraction of life will ever become one.

To expect to find a sample of every single species as it transitions into a different one over countless generations is to expect far too much. With the fossil record we have though some very logical conclusions can be drawn.

Pepperidge farm remembers when the only way to get petrified wood took a minimum of thousands of years. And then Mt St. Hellens blew up.

They've managed to recreate the petrification process in a lab in less than a day using conditions similar to a volcanic eruption.

So it makes sense that volcanic eruptions drive the petrification process.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:12:11 PM EDT

[#36]

I thought this kind of fairy tale took millions of years. That must be one long ass time lapse

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:12:30 PM EDT

[#37]

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I just want my lawn to evolve to grow shorter. I've mowed it hundreds of times, but it just keeps growing. I guess if I mow it for millions of years, it will evolve to stay short permanently.

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Roundup.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:13:26 PM EDT

[#38]

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Our pastor when I was going through confirmation said he had read some of the early bibles in Greek (IIRC.) He said under creation it said something that translates better as "period of time" and not day. IMO w/ that one change they coexist well together.

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Back in the literal 24 hr day, we used to study the science of language we called logic.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:15:19 PM EDT

[#39]

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I just want my lawn to evolve to grow shorter. I've mowed it hundreds of times, but it just keeps growing. I guess if I mow it for millions of years, it will evolve to stay short permanently.

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Actually, keep mowing and that's likely to happen sooner rather than later. When you mow you're chopping off the grass' only means of reproduction, the boot that forms at the tip of a tiller of grass. Grass that mutates to boot below the cutting line will eventually establish itself and take over so now your lawn will be naturally short.

Of course when you stop mowing longer grass will now have the advantage back and pretty soon you'll have to start mowing again.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:16:31 PM EDT

[#40]

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I always love to hear any evidence that life is simpler than we think. If it can happen here than it can happen on other worlds as well.

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I fully expect that we'll find other life in our solar system in my lifetime. The interesting question is whether abiogenesis is high probability and the life we find represents an entirely different evolutionary tree, or whether life was seeded from elsewhere. Going to need some new taxonomy...

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:17:34 PM EDT

[#41]

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They've managed to recreate the petrification process in a lab in less than a day using conditions similar to a volcanic eruption.

So it makes sense that volcanic eruptions drive the petrification process.

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Try telling that to a scientist in 1976. Remember, scientists are unimpeachable, always right and infallible, until they themselves discover they were wrong. You can't disagree until they agree, lest you be a denier and a heretic.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:20:12 PM EDT

[#42]

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Back in the literal 24 hr day, we used to study the science of language we called logic.

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Quoted:

Our pastor when I was going through confirmation said he had read some of the early bibles in Greek (IIRC.) He said under creation it said something that translates better as "period of time" and not day. IMO w/ that one change they coexist well together.

Back in the literal 24 hr day, we used to study the science of language we called logic.

Still doesn't work. If a day was millions of years, the plants would all die. They were created before the sun was in that in that chronology.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:21:46 PM EDT

[#43]

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Try telling that to a scientist in 1976. Remember, scientists are unimpeachable, always right and infallible, until they themselves discover they were wrong. You can't disagree until they agree, lest you be a denier and a heretic.

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They've managed to recreate the petrification process in a lab in less than a day using conditions similar to a volcanic eruption.

So it makes sense that volcanic eruptions drive the petrification process.

Try telling that to a scientist in 1976. Remember, scientists are unimpeachable, always right and infallible, until they themselves discover they were wrong. You can't disagree until they agree, lest you be a denier and a heretic.

It's how we learn shit. Any scientist that claims a theory is 100% immune to change as new evidence approaches is a shitty scientist. The only thing that can't change are facts (basic observations that can be repeatedly shown to be true like "The world is round" that's an observable fact)

You just described most bible thumpers too, except for the agreeing they are wrong part.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:22:05 PM EDT

[#44]

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If life is so easy or throw out 10 solar systems that have life, then why can't we create life?

Not amino acids or building blocks.

I mean dividing cells, even a one celled original life with its own derived DNA but unique DNA type arrangement that is completely alien to the earth.

Its never gonna happen and if it does they will be using something that has already developed or is in existence.

So yes this current news is more of "we found the possibility of life on Mars" and its nothing but a sound bite of some chemical or frozen water.

A non event.

View Quote

Well, considering how much larger a planetary ocean is than a lab beaker, I would say probability is not on the side of the experimentalist. And we don't know what the bridge between organic molecules and cells were. My bet is something like a prion, but you're probably not going to find a fossil of one.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:35:40 PM EDT

[#45]

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Actually, keep mowing and that's likely to happen sooner rather than later. When you mow you're chopping off the grass' only means of reproduction, the boot that forms at the tip of a tiller of grass. Grass that mutates to boot below the cutting line will eventually establish itself and take over so now your lawn will be naturally short.

Of course when you stop mowing longer grass will now have the advantage back and pretty soon you'll have to start mowing again.

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Quoted:
I just want my lawn to evolve to grow shorter. I've mowed it hundreds of times, but it just keeps growing. I guess if I mow it for millions of years, it will evolve to stay short permanently.

Actually, keep mowing and that's likely to happen sooner rather than later. When you mow you're chopping off the grass' only means of reproduction, the boot that forms at the tip of a tiller of grass. Grass that mutates to boot below the cutting line will eventually establish itself and take over so now your lawn will be naturally short.

Of course when you stop mowing longer grass will now have the advantage back and pretty soon you'll have to start mowing again.

Lawns are a decadent western tradition that wastes huge amounts of water resources for little to no value. But they do look pretty and are more fun to play on that dirt and rocks so there is that.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:36:52 PM EDT

[#46]

TL,DR: Humans will evolve to not desire lawns.

Posted: 2/27/2019 4:45:32 PM EDT

[#47]

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Talk about confirmation bias?

When all you have to go on is "This book is true because it says so right here on this page in this paragraph" then you don't really have much to go on.

The evidence for creation is one book of fairy tales. The evidence for evolution will fill several very large libraries.

I know which seems far more credible to me.

The problem with some people is that they refuse to believe in something that they can't personally comprehend. This is where flat earthers and moon truthers and some strains of conspiracy nuts come from.

Evolution is a very complex subject. To fully understand all the evidence for it you'd have to be quite well educated.

Interestingly, those who have an extensive science based education almost NEVER side with creationism.

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And yet all of those books have never explained how something comes from nothing. Strange. Strange indeed.

Fairy tales? hmmm....

Posted: 2/27/2019 5:02:02 PM EDT

[#48]

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You say "there has to be" but that is not based upon any fact, just speculation.

If the universe is finite then unique things can happen and can exist.

For all we know life is unique on earth. We only have one data point. We can't make assumptions without more than one data point, can we? All the evidence that we have now says that the universe is sterile. We need more evidence before we can make any valid assumptions on life elsewhere.

If life was nothing more than chemistry then every Jr High School science class on earth would be producing life as a class experiment.

We haven't produced laboratory life yet by putting organic chemicals together in an environment. That suggest that life is for more complicated than we could ever imagine.

Maybe so complicated that it is unique to earth.

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If life bootstrapped itself out of non-life, it don't matter if it's a unique event. It means it's physically possible for life to spring forth on its own - designer or no designer involved.

So the question really only comes to did life arise naturally or 'supernaturally'.