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Posted: 4/21/2023 6:30:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
 If you throw enough money and people at a project...it is pretty impressive what can get done. It'll be interesting how many resources get thrown at this. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 6:40:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobradriver: If you throw enough money and people at a project...it is pretty impressive what can get done. It'll be interesting how many resources get thrown at this. They saved a few bucks on excavation that’s available now. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 6:41:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cobradriver]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NwG: They saved a few bucks on excavation that’s available now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NwG: Originally Posted By Cobradriver: If you throw enough money and people at a project...it is pretty impressive what can get done. It'll be interesting how many resources get thrown at this. They saved a few bucks on excavation that’s available now. The existing rebar is ready to be tied into.  |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 6:47:31 PM EDT
[#4]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 6:51:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobradriver: If you throw enough money and people at a project...it is pretty impressive what can get done. It'll be interesting how many resources get thrown at this. Especially when government procurement contracting rules. Aren't? Involved.this is all private money. He can hire the contractor with the quickest time for the least amount 1 year. The most money it doesn't matter. That's why space sex is so much more efficient than the government. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 6:58:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By double_trouble_2003: Great slow motion shot of the launch. Pause at 12 seconds, large, flaming debris to the right of Starship and pause again at 15 seconds, to the left of Starship, going higher / faster than the ship, out of frame. ETA: Not sure what's up with posting a tweet. (Brownelled) Pretty sure that huge slab (circled) isn't supposed to be there. They were lucky the rocket wasn't damaged more!  |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:14:52 PM EDT
[#7]
I’d say they were EXTREMELY lucky that a single rock didn’t puncture the skin and create the Mother of All Fireballs right then and there.
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:19:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Multi-use rocket -- Single-use Pad
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:21:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
LOL NASA wouldn't even have the cover sheet for their first post launch TPS report completed in 2 months. |
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SYC
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:40:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
1 to 2 months elon |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:41:03 PM EDT
[#11]
 SpaceX Launch Pummels Hoopcam 2 |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:41:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Any official reports on how loud it was at the site?
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SYC
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:45:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RinsableTick: I’d say they were EXTREMELY lucky that a single rock didn’t puncture the skin and create the Mother of All Fireballs right then and there. fortunately most stuff tends to fly away from the source of supersonic shit. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:45:59 PM EDT
[#14]
That was lucky. Could have went much more disastrous. I wouldn't be surprised if FAA demands more safety testing before the next attempt and better clearing of the launch sit and protection of the farm.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NwG: Any official reports on how loud it was at the site? Dunno about official. Anecdotal reports tend to be along the lines of "not as loud as you would expect", although with significant vibration. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:48:42 PM EDT
[#15]
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:48:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryThat kind of looks like an overpressure event. The wind gets sucked back in and then a big wave comes back (what knocks it over). |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:50:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuMqHYjWYAM3VlN?format=jpg&name=medium Dust cloud, AKA the concrete pad, must have gotten 2000 or 3000 feet in altitude. |
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SYC
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:51:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Furloaf: That was lucky. Could have went much more disastrous. I wouldn't be surprised if FAA demands more safety testing before the next attempt and better clearing of the launch sit and protection of the farm. Dunno about official. Anecdotal reports tend to be along the lines of "not as loud as you would expect", although with significant vibration. vibration is sound |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:52:20 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 7:55:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: 1 to 2 months elon Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By Chokey:
1 to 2 months elon That is a year in real time and we know it. Elon time is always f'd up. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 8:02:00 PM EDT
[#21]
good thread
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Posted: 4/21/2023 8:20:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mort: If it was just heat they could use something flame resistant like ceramics. But there is also the thrust of the exhaust. Heat + high velocity exhaust = Erosion of most materials. Water deluge system gives the hot exhaust something to erode. I suspect the reason Elon decided to avoid a flame diverter + deluge system is more about time than cost. Imagine how long the environment impact study will be for dumping tons of potentially contaminated water into the bay would be. Also they would have had to move in mountains of dirt, pack it down, wait for it to settle and compress the waterlogged dirt below, then coat everything in concrete before they could even build the launch mount. I've worked on a job site in Iowa where the water table is only a few feet deep. If you try to put a heavy structure on top the dirt will settle and cause your building to fail. The method they used on site to deal with this is to pile dirt a few story's high and wait a year for the weight of the dirt mound to compress loose dirt and push the water out of from under building pad. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 8:32:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It seems that nearly everyone looks at the Saturn V program and forgets that: 1. NASA blew a lot of stuff up in the 1950's in the development process. Failure rates in some test programs were as high as 50% 2. NASA considered Von Braun and his team to be anomalous in just how much stuff they didn't blow up during development. 3. NASA attributes Von Braun and his teams success in a large part to the fact that by Saturn V, Von Braun and his team had been working together, blowing stuff up and watching others blow stuff up since the 1930's. SpaceX on the otherhand, their development process is absolute shit. /s And yet they have the most reliable and safe launch system in history with 162 missions, all full successes. Not to mention they're also the cheapest per pound to orbit of all their competitors.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 8:51:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#24]
If I had to bet, Port Isabel gets more tons of sand dropped on it every decent tropical storm than this launch blew in. Probably orders of magnitude. LOX and Methane are not serious contaminants - and would have separated and gone their marry way before the sand settled. Brown sand - damn just like most of the sand down there.
Musk is probably thinking that, yeh, we needed to improve the launch pad - but we really sped up the excavation of the old one with this launch. Probably saved several weeks of heavy equipment rental. Turning the old one to dust even cut down the disposal costs. As for personal property damage - 2 cars that were being used as filming platforms, well that shit happens. One window. Probably 100's of thousands of vacation money brought into the communities. Wash your car, sweep your sidewalk - or just say a prayer or two for a decent thunderstorm. While you are at it, say some prayers that Musk will keep helping the local economy. --- You got brown dust, I get some yellow green stuff (pollen) for months out of the year. It is covering everything. We are not going to cut down the trees to fix it. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 8:59:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: That image is sideways I think Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns: Originally Posted By Cypher15: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/694811883953455184/1099023779843293224/Full_Resized.png From NSF Forum This makes the whole belly flop landing seem less insane. That image is sideways I think Not really if you consider that the stage separation will be right before or at apogee |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 9:03:32 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 9:30:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
You can see some pretty big pieces flying in that one |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 9:42:27 PM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 4/21/2023 9:50:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey: good thread
As a teen I once built a huge bonfire on a large concrete slab at former dairy farm. The concrete heated up and ground moisture under the slab turned to steam. It caused the concrete to explode and wheelbarrow size pieces flew in the air. I suspect the same process happened here after seeing how close to water table the mount actually is. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 9:51:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mohabie: That's why space sex is so much more efficient than the government. 
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Posted: 4/21/2023 9:58:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Furloaf: That kind of looks like an overpressure event. The wind gets sucked back in and then a big wave comes back (what knocks it over). |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 10:08:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BeatsOfftoEVs]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cgrant26: And yet they have the most reliable and safe launch system in history with 162 missions, all full successes. Not to mention they're also the cheapest per pound to orbit of all their competitors. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203945/CostPerPoundOrbit_JPG-2791249.JPG I’m a big space x fan but that isn’t completely true. I believe they are up to 221 successful missions and two unsuccessful. Look up crs-7 and Amos-6 missions. That said I bet they have the highest success mission success rate. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 10:22:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NOVA1234: Carter Racing Team. But this isn’t one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NOVA1234: Originally Posted By ILfreedom: Has Nasa ever made bad decisions in their history? My opinion is this is one of them. Carter Racing Team. But this isn’t one. 
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Posted: 4/21/2023 10:24:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: If I had to bet, Port Isabel gets more tons of sand dropped on it every decent tropical storm than this launch blew in. Probably orders of magnitude. LOX and Methane are not serious contaminants - and would have separated and gone their marry way before the sand settled. Brown sand - damn just like most of the sand down there. Musk is probably thinking that, yeh, we needed to improve the launch pad - but we really sped up the excavation of the old one with this launch. Probably saved several weeks of heavy equipment rental. Turning the old one to dust even cut down the disposal costs. As for personal property damage - 2 cars that were being used as filming platforms, well that shit happens. One window. Probably 100's of thousands of vacation money brought into the communities. Wash your car, sweep your sidewalk - or just say a prayer or two for a decent thunderstorm. While you are at it, say some prayers that Musk will keep helping the local economy. --- You got brown dust, I get some yellow green stuff (pollen) for months out of the year. It is covering everything. We are not going to cut down the trees to fix it. If it wasn't for space X I wouldn't have spent $3-4000 locally there last summer visiting. I would have never went there. I did learn it's a really nice spot, but holy crap the water is cold. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 10:35:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mohabie: That's why space sex is so much more efficient than the government. The lack of gravity makes many activities more efficient. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 10:38:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cgrant26: And yet they have the most reliable and safe launch system in history with 162 missions, all full successes. Not to mention they're also the cheapest per pound to orbit of all their competitors. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203945/CostPerPoundOrbit_JPG-2791249.JPG this dudes claim about spacex's development is absolutely fucking hilarious. spacex's development methods have saved the DOD and the NASA both tens of billions of dollars. NASA predicted a falcon 9 type rocket to cost them 4 billion to develop and for some hard driving company could maybe do it for 1.7 billion. spacex made the falcon 9 AND the cargo dragon for 300million. it was an absolute sea change in the rocketry. BEFORE booster landing. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2023 10:47:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: this dudes claim about spacex's development is absolutely fucking hilarious. spacex's development methods have saved the DOD and the NASA both tens of billions of dollars. NASA predicted a falcon 9 type rocket to cost them 4 billion to develop and for some hard driving company could maybe do it for 1.7 billion. spacex made the falcon 9 AND the cargo dragon for 300million. it was an absolute sea change in the rocketry. BEFORE booster landing. Just as an example, Europa Clipper was intended to be launched on SLS. It’s going up on a Falcon Heavy instead. A roughly estimated savings of a bit over 2 billion dollars.  What a Savings |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 11:20:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cgrant26]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drugmanrx: I’m a big space x fan but that isn’t completely true. I believe they are up to 221 successful missions and two unsuccessful. Look up crs-7 and Amos-6 missions. That said I bet they have the highest success mission success rate. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drugmanrx: Originally Posted By cgrant26: And yet they have the most reliable and safe launch system in history with 162 missions, all full successes. Not to mention they're also the cheapest per pound to orbit of all their competitors. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203945/CostPerPoundOrbit_JPG-2791249.JPG I’m a big space x fan but that isn’t completely true. I believe they are up to 221 successful missions and two unsuccessful. Look up crs-7 and Amos-6 missions. That said I bet they have the highest success mission success rate. I suppose I should have added the word "consecutive". But you're right, my stat wasn't completely true. I looked it up and AMOS-6 (the last failure) was scheduled to be their 29th mission and they're up to 219 total now so that 162 number was actually quite a bit outdated. Consecutive successful mission number now is 189. Atlas V is 100% since 2007 but they only have 81 flights since then. Would have been 162 flights since the last total failure in 94 had they not had a partial failure in 07 when they left an NROL satellite in a lower orbit than required. Also, I see now why the first article I found was published at the 162 successful mission mark.  |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 11:45:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: this dudes claim about spacex's development is absolutely fucking hilarious. spacex's development methods have saved the DOD and the NASA both tens of billions of dollars. NASA predicted a falcon 9 type rocket to cost them 4 billion to develop and for some hard driving company could maybe do it for 1.7 billion. spacex made the falcon 9 AND the cargo dragon for 300million. it was an absolute sea change in the rocketry. BEFORE booster landing. |
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Posted: 4/22/2023 1:34:27 AM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 4/22/2023 3:06:04 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MtnMusic: You'd probably need a clause that states "if either of us dies, the bet is off". Because I suspect that once Elon is no longer useful to the feds (i.e. when they get another vendor who can launch their satellites), they're gonna do their best to screw him in any way possible. If that happens, we may be waiting a LONG time before any lunar landing happens. The old guy will be long dead by then. The younger guy might be too. |
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Posted: 4/22/2023 4:33:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RyanEsstac: If it wasn't for space X I wouldn't have spent $3-4000 locally there last summer visiting. I would have never went there. I did learn it's a really nice spot, but holy crap the water is cold. That said, cool is relative. I went to the beach this time of the year in Delaware. That was cold.   Apparently Bolivar is a little cooler in the winter, and maybe a degree warmer in the summer. Still 85 is warm water. For comparison - here is Rohoboth's water temp  Average water temp now is about 45, and it's warmest is still 10 degrees below S. Padre. |
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Posted: 4/22/2023 9:22:56 AM EDT
[#43]
 SpaceX Starship Flight: Immensely Complex (and Awesome)! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/22/2023 9:56:38 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mousehunter: I have not made it down to South Padre for years, but water temperature is seasonal. Not sure when you went. I have family with a beach house in Bolivar, so I am more used to the water temperature there. It is still cool, but it should be getting pleasant soon - and will be almost too warm to enjoy by the end of the summer. That said, cool is relative. I went to the beach this time of the year in Delaware. That was cold. https://www.surf-forecast.com/sstgraphs/Bolivar.png https://www.surf-forecast.com/sstgraphs/South-Padre-Island.png Apparently Bolivar is a little cooler in the winter, and maybe a degree warmer in the summer. Still 85 is warm water. For comparison - here is Rohoboth's water temp https://www.surf-forecast.com/sstgraphs/Rehoboth-Main.png Average water temp now is about 45, and it's warmest is still 10 degrees below S. Padre. The complaint of cold water at South Padre Island is so thoroughly disorienting and lacking context that it could only be properly addressed by three color coded year round water temp graphs. Showing a chart at South Padre Island and showing one for all the way up to Bolivar Island is the type of geographical thoroughness and context the response needed. To further drive the point home, you could show one for Nags Head, NC and Malibu, CA. The Gulf stream lets a tongue of Arctic water slip quite far down the East Coast. |
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Posted: 4/22/2023 10:53:17 AM EDT
[#45]
parasailing near the shore
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Posted: 4/22/2023 11:17:14 AM EDT
[#46]
I love all the doomer comments and speculation on the test launch.
Did SpaceX make a big fucking crater and hurt the booster? Yes. Does it really matter in the long run? No. |
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Posted: 4/22/2023 11:18:50 AM EDT
[#47]
 Starship test launch from 12th floor South Padre Island |
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Posted: 4/22/2023 11:21:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cgrant26: And yet they have the most reliable and safe launch system in history with 162 missions, all full successes. Not to mention they're also the cheapest per pound to orbit of all their competitors. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203945/CostPerPoundOrbit_JPG-2791249.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cgrant26: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: It seems that nearly everyone looks at the Saturn V program and forgets that: 1. NASA blew a lot of stuff up in the 1950's in the development process. Failure rates in some test programs were as high as 50% 2. NASA considered Von Braun and his team to be anomalous in just how much stuff they didn't blow up during development. 3. NASA attributes Von Braun and his teams success in a large part to the fact that by Saturn V, Von Braun and his team had been working together, blowing stuff up and watching others blow stuff up since the 1930's. SpaceX on the otherhand, their development process is absolute shit. /s And yet they have the most reliable and safe launch system in history with 162 missions, all full successes. Not to mention they're also the cheapest per pound to orbit of all their competitors. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203945/CostPerPoundOrbit_JPG-2791249.JPG you missed the /s which stands for sarcasm. 
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Posted: 4/22/2023 11:24:49 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: The Gulf stream lets a tongue of Arctic water slip quite far down the East Coast.
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Posted: 4/22/2023 11:25:33 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_of_Orion: I could be wrong but I interpreted his statement as sarcasm... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Master_of_Orion: Originally Posted By Yobro512: this dudes claim about spacex's development is absolutely fucking hilarious. spacex's development methods have saved the DOD and the NASA both tens of billions of dollars. NASA predicted a falcon 9 type rocket to cost them 4 billion to develop and for some hard driving company could maybe do it for 1.7 billion. spacex made the falcon 9 AND the cargo dragon for 300million. it was an absolute sea change in the rocketry. BEFORE booster landing. It was. Apparently there are people that have been on the Internet for decades that don't know that /s means sarcasm. I figured it was well known. Bad assumption on my part.
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