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Posted: 9/21/2023 2:35:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: wtf does USFW have to do with what happens on a TX beach? Maybe they're making sure SpaceX isn't using Starship to whack mallards? |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 2:36:10 PM EDT
[#2]
You want to know how you get the world’s richest man to give gobs of money to the Republican Party? This is how you get the world’s richest man to give gobs of money to the Republican Party.
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Posted: 9/21/2023 2:37:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: wtf does USFW have to do with what happens on a TX beach? Licensed turbo environmentalists when they want to be. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 2:52:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#4]
[Deleted]
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 3:12:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762]
[#5]
How about we keep this thread focused on Starship and not infect it with that crap. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 7:44:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zam18th: How about we keep this thread focused on Starship and not infect it with that crap. This. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 8:13:14 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 9/22/2023 5:49:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:06:35 PM EDT
[#9]
How does one apply pressure to the fish cops? Can we get a popular movement going to step on those pencilnecks?
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:06:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR4U: How does one apply pressure to the fish cops? Can we get a popular movement going to step on those pencilnecks? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:13:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kill-9: Write your congressman. And hope he writes back. Most do though, even if it's just to acknowledge that they have received and read your letter. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:20:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: It's harder and harder to attribute this stuff to incompetence and pointless bureaucracy ... and instead wonder how much is actual deliberate and malice.  I think Musk should get some pros to look into the financial situation of the people making these decisions and find out if they’re getting “donations “ from competing companies . |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:03:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ASUsax]
[#13]
Wall Street Journal: The Harassment of Elon Musk (Paywall)
Does the Biden Administration have it in for Elon Musk? We’ve sometimes tussled over policy with the Tesla and SpaceX CEO, but the volume of government investigations into his businesses makes us wonder if the Biden Administration is targeting him for regulatory harassment. ... But the collection of probes into Mr. Musk’s ventures are unusual enough to suggest what the Justice Department likes to call a “pattern or practice.” We doubt any order from on high has been sent, but it doesn’t need to be when a figure becomes Progressive Enemy No. 1. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:31:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryNon-paywall link I, for one, am glad the govt is stepping in to protect these invaluable assets from the evil corporation: Seven bobwhite quail eggs and a collection of blue land crabs were found to have been charred. |
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WLF
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:36:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkGray: a collection of blue land crabs were found to have been charred. FFS! I'm sure I've boiled more crabs than Starship has! Is FWS going to get me? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:40:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkGray: Non-paywall link I, for one, am glad the govt is stepping in to protect these invaluable assets from the evil corporation: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkGray: Non-paywall link I, for one, am glad the govt is stepping in to protect these invaluable assets from the evil corporation: Seven bobwhite quail eggs and a collection of blue land crabs were found to have been charred. Of for FUCK SAKES !!! 
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:41:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mousehunter]
[#17]
both are available at a decent grocery store - not really endangered species... That said, not sure if they had the right fishing and hunting licenses. Then again, neither are migratory - so they are state licenses, not federal.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 6:41:41 PM EDT
[#18]
There is a certain distance from a starship launch where quail eggs and crab are cooked perfectly by the launch.
SpaceX calls this the flavor zone.. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 7:49:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NwG: There is a certain distance from a starship launch where quail eggs and crab are cooked perfectly by the launch. SpaceX calls this the flavor zone..  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 7:50:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dagger41: And hope he writes back. Most do though, even if it's just to acknowledge that they have received and read your letter. In my experience i get a form letter likely printed by a staffer/ intern. They may or may not record opinions and present them |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 7:51:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkGray: Non-paywall link I, for one, am glad the govt is stepping in to protect these invaluable assets from the evil corporation: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkGray: Non-paywall link I, for one, am glad the govt is stepping in to protect these invaluable assets from the evil corporation: Seven bobwhite quail eggs and a collection of blue land crabs were found to have been charred. Sounds like a nice snack |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 8:02:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: In my experience i get a form letter likely printed by a staffer/ intern. They may or may not record opinions and present them Mrs gets a phone call from Bill Posey. Helps that she was team Mother for his kid. LOL |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 9:37:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LurkerII: FFS! I'm sure I've boiled more crabs than Starship has! Is FWS going to get me? |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 2:33:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DarkGray: Non-paywall link I, for one, am glad the govt is stepping in to protect these invaluable assets from the evil corporation: You're why we can't have nice things. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 8:33:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpanishInquisition: You're why we can't have nice things. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpanishInquisition: Originally Posted By DarkGray: Non-paywall link I, for one, am glad the govt is stepping in to protect these invaluable assets from the evil corporation: You're why we can't have nice things. You may want to recalibrate your sarcasm meter. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 2:48:24 PM EDT
[#26]
3pm EDT
 NSF Live: Eric Berger - Starship Flight 2 and the Big Falcon 9 Surge |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 3:15:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fulcrum-5]
[#27]
Quote HistoryHighlights: Berger's writing a sequel to "Liftoff", which will cover the second decade of SpaceX (from after the Falcon 1 to Demo-2). Berger thinks that the FAA wouldn't say "it'll probably be ready by the end of October" if they didn't feel USFW would be done with their review by then. "So we've probably got another 6-8 weeks before Flight-2". Wildcard is a potential government shutdown, which would likely halt all regulatory processes for an arbitrary time. Starship will take a long time to replace Falcon 9, due to the sheer efficiency of the F9 operation. Blue Origin's lunar lander is "about a decade out". HLS-Starship probably won't be ready before 2027 or so. NASA has no other options. "If they are going to the Moon anytime in the 2020s, it'll be using Starship-HLS". Nonzero chance that NASA will move to cut SLS' throat as soon as Starship (and/or New Glenn) is reasonably operational. |
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Posted: 9/25/2023 6:19:22 PM EDT
[#28]
 
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Posted: 9/25/2023 9:22:10 PM EDT
[#29]
holy crap
  
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Posted: 9/25/2023 9:27:43 PM EDT
[#30]
good old chockfast red
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Posted: 9/25/2023 9:43:49 PM EDT
[#31]
"How much rebar will we need?"
"All." |
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Posted: 9/25/2023 10:34:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fulcrum-5: "How much rebar will we need?" All you can get. How much do you have? ETC. |
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Posted: 9/25/2023 10:39:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#33]
Something to consider. When we start seriously going to Mars we are going to need to build launch pads there if we want to get back. Probably not quite as dense as this because it doesn't need as much Delta V to get off the surface. But still, this is snot going to be easy.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2023 11:29:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mort]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Something to consider. When we start seriously going to Mars we are going to need to build launch pads there if we want to get back. Probably not quite as dense as this because it doesn't need as much Delta V to get off the surface. But still, this is snot going to be easy. I wonder how thick of a launchpad would be needed to support starship considering the lower gravity of mars and thrust of the engines should be less focused because it doesn't have 1bar of atmosphere pushing on it. I have read about fiber reinforced concrete in the past, maybe a composite of Mars soil + carbon fiber + vacuum rated binding agent could be used. With the considerably lower atmospheric pressure wouldn't it be better to use vacuum rated engines for Mars takeoff and landings? With the lower pressure and wider rocket nozzles wouldn't the rocket exhaust be much wider and less concentrated for a mars launch? If you don't use sea level engines on Mars, wouldn't it be better to custom build mars starships without sealevel engines? Schlepping around engines just because you want to land on Earth seems inefficient. Time to build some orbital space stations to handle mars bound freight! Just avoid space station 13 I hear it is run by madmen. ETA has anyone tried any high voltage experiments on Mars? I'm wondering how high voltage reacts in a near vacuum atmosphere with a lot of carbon... is it like the inside of a neon bulb? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2023 5:00:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: good old chockfast red I think of chockfast red as a foundation grout, not as anchoring rebar that way. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 12:14:24 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 9/26/2023 3:32:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Really, where? I see some red looking stuff around the rebar sticking straight out of the column. I didn't think that was chockfast red. I think of chockfast red as a foundation grout, not as anchoring rebar that way. I'd use epoxy grout to anchor studs into pre-existing, already cured concrete. I don't what would be stronger or have better adhesion. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 5:44:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mort: Sending tons of rebar to mars seems a bit wasteful. But you are probably going to have to find a reolacement for concrete on mars anyway. At 6.35mbar the mars atmoshpere is pretty close to a vacuum and i doubt concrete will work in a vacuum because the water will freaze and/or boil off before the exothermic reaction can happen. I wonder how thick of a launchpad would be needed to support starship considering the lower gravity of mars and thrust of the engines should be less focused because it doesn't have 1bar of atmosphere pushing on it. I have read about fiber reinforced concrete in the past, maybe a composite of Mars soil + carbon fiber + vacuum rated binding agent could be used. With the considerably lower atmospheric pressure wouldn't it be better to use vacuum rated engines for Mars takeoff and landings? With the lower pressure and wider rocket nozzles wouldn't the rocket exhaust be much wider and less concentrated for a mars launch? If you don't use sea level engines on Mars, wouldn't it be better to custom build mars starships without sealevel engines? Schlepping around engines just because you want to land on Earth seems inefficient. Time to build some orbital space stations to handle mars bound freight! Just avoid space station 13 I hear it is run by madmen. ETA has anyone tried any high voltage experiments on Mars? I'm wondering how high voltage reacts in a near vacuum atmosphere with a lot of carbon... is it like the inside of a neon bulb? Likely will use some form of sintering to just melt the grains together. |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 8:51:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mort: Schlepping around engines just because you want to land on Earth seems inefficient. I just like this mindset. "Bah - landing on Earth, what a PITA, best avoided!" |
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Posted: 9/26/2023 8:58:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: I just like this mindset. "Bah - landing on Earth, what a PITA, best avoided!" I've said repeatedly that Mars feels like a red herring of sorts. What Starship really offers is mastery of low Earth orbit and the ability to get back and forth to the moon. Interplanetary cyclers seem like the best concept for travel in the solar system right now. They will need to be massive to absorb radiation. When they come near a planet they can deploy a relatively small craft to land or go to space stations. Those same shuttlecraft can zip up from the surface to catch the cycler.  Unleashing the Power of the Mars Cycler: SpaceX Starship to play a huge part? That said, Moon first. We can get to the other rocks later. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:24:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Fulcrum-5]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I've said repeatedly that Mars feels like a red herring of sorts. What Starship really offers is mastery of low Earth orbit and the ability to get back and forth to the moon. Interplanetary cyclers seem like the best concept for travel in the solar system right now. They will need to be massive to absorb radiation. When they come near a planet they can deploy a relatively small craft to land or go to space stations. Those same shuttlecraft can zip up from the surface to catch the cycler.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxSbYk2epmwThat said, Moon first. We can get to the other rocks later. Back in 2016, at IAC Guadalajara, when ITS was first unveiled, Musk dismissed the utility of Aldrin Cyclers.....with Buzz Aldrin sitting 10 ft away. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:27:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fulcrum-5: Back in 2016, at IAC Guadalajara, when ITS was first unveiled, Musk dismissed the utility of Aldrin Cyclers.....with Aldrin sitting 10 ft away. Didn't know that. Seems a bit rude, but live and learn I suppose. 2016. Sheesh, that feels like a lifetime ago. Time really does go fast in the Kali Yuga. This thread was started in December 2018. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:35:39 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Didn't know that. Seems a bit rude, but live and learn I suppose. 2016. Sheesh, that feels like a lifetime ago. Time really does go fast in the Kali Yuga. This thread was started in December 2018. I think that Lunar Cyclers might be worthwhile, in the mid-to-long-term, as it would save on fueling loads for Starship. You could have a couple of small transfer vehicles for dashing out to rdv with (and return from, on the way back) the Cycler, and then to drop into LLO to meet up with HLS. Mars Cyclers.......going to be an awful long time before we have the kind of sortie rate to Mars to require something beefier than Starship or a purpose-built Mars Transfer Vehicle (and a Mars Cycler would be a lot harder to maintain and PMCS than a Lunar Cycler). |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:52:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fulcrum-5: I think that Lunar Cyclers might be worthwhile, in the mid-to-long-term, as it would save on fueling loads for Starship. You could have a couple of small transfer vehicles for dashing out to rdv with (and return from, on the way back) the Cycler, and then to drop into LLO to meet up with HLS. Mars Cyclers.......going to be an awful long time before we have the kind of sortie rate to Mars to require something beefier than Starship or a purpose-built Mars Transfer Vehicle (and a Mars Cycler would be a lot harder to maintain and PMCS than a Lunar Cycler). Such a thing is going to demand nuclear engines and even though contracts have been issued for small experimental ones, that is a technology that is going to demand a lot of careful work before a human is sitting close to. Time and resources, that said I think this is just about the acme of "expensive but worth it." As silly as this may sound I think our big limiting factor right now is human imagination. Most people seem to expect that humanity is going to either descend into a Mad Max nightmare future or it will be like Star Trek. I don't think the future is going to look like either of those scenarios. What I think it will look like is something that is rarely depicted and when it is, it's rarely in a movie or tv show. Its in some novel. If we can't imagine the future then at the least it's going to come as a huge shock when it arrives and people are already clearly getting tired of future shock. Perhaps the answer to all this will wind up being people living an Amish existence with all manner of advanced tech humming away invisibly in the background? |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 4:52:53 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Something to consider. When we start seriously going to Mars we are going to need to build launch pads there if we want to get back. Probably not quite as dense as this because it doesn't need as much Delta V to get off the surface. But still, this is snot going to be easy. I don't see us building anything permanent on Mars, just from a logistics standpoint. Maybe AI robots could do it with some type of 3D printing or whatever. You're talking way advanced tech. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2023 5:21:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mort]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: I just like this mindset. "Bah - landing on Earth, what a PITA, best avoided!" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: Originally Posted By mort: Schlepping around engines just because you want to land on Earth seems inefficient. I just like this mindset. "Bah - landing on Earth, what a PITA, best avoided!" Deep space starship does not need fins, heat tiles, header tanks or sea level engines assuming the booster flings the starship high enough. But they probably need solar panels, robust environmental systems, radiation shielding, micrometer shielding, heat sinks, deep space comm system and strong locks on the airlock to keep people from taking a walk after being stuck in a fart can for months. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:11:48 AM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:01:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Such a thing is going to demand nuclear engines and even though contracts have been issued for small experimental ones, that is a technology that is going to demand a lot of careful work before a human is sitting close to. Ehhh..... For Lunar Cyclers, NTR or Nuclear Ion would be nice, but not necessary (basic chemical rockets would be fine since the LEO/LLO-to-Cycler shuttle could be kept pretty small and spartan). A nuclear-ion or NTR orbital tug for moving big cargos around in cislunar space is going to be needed, though (we've known that since the 70's). For Mars Cyclers.....again, depends on the orbital mechanics (Mars is still within the realm where solar power is enough for space purposes, but surface activity will need nukes). Starship would be a cool RDV vehicle for each end of the Cycler's loop. NASA (and DARPA/DOD/USSF) have at least two NTR engine programs running, one of which (DRACO) is scheduled for a space-side demo flight in 2027 (LockMart is the contractor). Human's will (eventually, once a full-scale engine is available) likely be "sitting" pretty far from the hot parts (likely on the other side of a shadow shield). The challenge is designing a long-endurance fission core that will do what we want it to do (superheat a fluid, likely Hydrogen) and work reliably in microgravity for years (not crapping out in mid-maneuver and sending our Space Heroes to their lingering doom). Fission ain't a new tech, and we have had NTR rockets working (50+ years ago). The chief obstacles were (a) political and (b) that we weren't doing anything that required NTR engines (once we retrenched back to LEO after Apollo....NTR was kinda irrelevant). Now that the N-word is less scary to Congress and the public at large ("Hey, those crazy Russians shoot at nuclear plants! They must be safe!!!"), and we are breaking out of LEO, NTR is likely to be a real thing before 2030. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:03:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harmonic_Distortion: I don't see us building anything permanent on Mars, just from a logistics standpoint. Maybe AI robots could do it with some type of 3D printing or whatever. You're talking way advanced tech. Ai robots and 3d printing are a current reality. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:04:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mort: Purpose built tools work better. Make heavy lift earth based starships for the earth to orbit run with sea level engines and some small vacuum engines for orbital adjustments. Then make purpose built interplanetary starships for deep space missions like Mars or asteroids. Deep space starship does not need fins, heat tiles, header tanks or sea level engines assuming the booster flings the starship high enough. But they probably need solar panels, robust environmental systems, radiation shielding, micrometer shielding, heat sinks, deep space comm system and strong locks on the airlock to keep people from taking a walk after being stuck in a fart can for months. The mars starships will utilize aerobraking and require fins. |
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