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Posted: 6/26/2024 12:05:47 PM EST
[#1]
It's amazing what Elon and SpaceX have accomplished given the hurdles that Bezos and this administration have placed in front of them at every turn.
Just imagine how far along our Space Program would be if SpaceX was allowed to operate unhindered by the government. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 2:30:53 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang: Make the catch surfaces into a shallow v with the locking channel at the bottom of the v, the rocket can then ride the rails with gravity into the locked position. Extend the concept to partially wrap the rocket based on a curved shape to the arms and you can probably get coverage of 100-180* of the 360* allowing you a lot of wiggle room. I saw an animation when (once landed) they have hydraulic rams to push the pins to the center of the arms, aligning the booster for Stage Zero. I don't know if they were channeled, how that would work. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 2:44:33 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: The local government could make some money if they could convince a couple of hotels to build there, they'd be packed the weeks of launches. Then the supporting restaurants and gas stations would come. More jobs, more taxes, more growth. I'd love to see one live, but with my ill health and disability, the lack of infrastructure keeps me from going. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Originally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Are there plans to run oxygen and methane pipelines to Starbase? I hope so, well, methane pipelines. I would expect that sooner or later they are going to build a LOX plant out there. It would probably also be a good idea to see if a fire can be lit under the local government to improve the got dang roads out there. The local government could make some money if they could convince a couple of hotels to build there, they'd be packed the weeks of launches. Then the supporting restaurants and gas stations would come. More jobs, more taxes, more growth. I'd love to see one live, but with my ill health and disability, the lack of infrastructure keeps me from going. There are several hotels right there near the minimum safe distance from the launch site and believe it or not, they aren't packed during launches. I made plans to fly down and stay right at the beach for IFT only two days before the launch and I was able to book a room at Margaritaville without to much trouble. The hotel was busy with launch tourists but I was able to get a room nonetheless and that wasn't the only option in the area either. You can watch the launch from the hotel which is only 6 miles from the launch site so the accessibility is fantastic. Walking down the beach to the very edge of the exclusion zone only gets you 1 mile closer. Worth it if you can make the walk but absolutely not a deal breaker. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 3:15:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: dragoontwo]
[#4]
Class A is between 95-105 dB. Some good foamies that they should provide everybody anyways will suffice here. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 3:37:13 PM EST
[#5]
I'm not sure where to post this, so I will post it here. Falcon Heavy boosters returning to the landing pads.
It seems so commonplace now, but I'm still amazed every time I see one land. Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 26, 2024 |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 4:01:26 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Backscatter: I'm not sure where to post this, so I will post it here. Falcon Heavy boosters returning to the landing pads. It seems so commonplace now, but I'm still amazed every time I see one land. Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 26, 2024 If I got close with my math. The final burn is about 3.5 Gs. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 4:09:57 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Backscatter: I'm not sure where to post this, so I will post it here. Falcon Heavy boosters returning to the landing pads. It seems so commonplace now, but I'm still amazed every time I see one land. Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 26, 2024 Try the SpaceX launch thread |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 4:32:50 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryThanks! I was looking for that thread! 
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Posted: 6/26/2024 5:28:50 PM EST
[#9]
Me too!
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Posted: 6/26/2024 6:11:50 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: They kinda have a point. It's not "local environment" as in plant and animals, it's about operations for NASA, BO, ULA, and others. I summarize it as BO saying, "hey, we can't have any rockets at launch pads and we have to evacuate personnel when this thing operates." From a business standpoint, that makes sense. It seems more like they are trying to force NASA to come up with a solution that won't impact their operations, which is fair since they lease property. Read the release. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ7XAzzbwAIp_vq?format=jpg&name=small Tory Bruno/ULA weighs in. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ700PfWUAAnbwF?format=jpg&name=large
I'm extremely pro-SpaceX and pro-spaceflight. I think their concerns have some merit as far as operating Kennedy Space Center goes. It makes ZERO sense. This is all about Blue Origin unable to do shit and so they don't want anyone else doing shit either. |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 6:15:04 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: There are several hotels right there near the minimum safe distance from the launch site and believe it or not, they aren't packed during launches. I made plans to fly down and stay right at the beach for IFT only two days before the launch and I was able to book a room at Margaritaville without to much trouble. The hotel was busy with launch tourists but I was able to get a room nonetheless and that wasn't the only option in the area either. You can watch the launch from the hotel which is only 6 miles from the launch site so the accessibility is fantastic. Walking down the beach to the very edge of the exclusion zone only gets you 1 mile closer. Worth it if you can make the walk but absolutely not a deal breaker. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: Originally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Originally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By BigGrumpyBear: Are there plans to run oxygen and methane pipelines to Starbase? I hope so, well, methane pipelines. I would expect that sooner or later they are going to build a LOX plant out there. It would probably also be a good idea to see if a fire can be lit under the local government to improve the got dang roads out there. The local government could make some money if they could convince a couple of hotels to build there, they'd be packed the weeks of launches. Then the supporting restaurants and gas stations would come. More jobs, more taxes, more growth. I'd love to see one live, but with my ill health and disability, the lack of infrastructure keeps me from going. There are several hotels right there near the minimum safe distance from the launch site and believe it or not, they aren't packed during launches. I made plans to fly down and stay right at the beach for IFT only two days before the launch and I was able to book a room at Margaritaville without to much trouble. The hotel was busy with launch tourists but I was able to get a room nonetheless and that wasn't the only option in the area either. You can watch the launch from the hotel which is only 6 miles from the launch site so the accessibility is fantastic. Walking down the beach to the very edge of the exclusion zone only gets you 1 mile closer. Worth it if you can make the walk but absolutely not a deal breaker. Dude! I had no idea! I can't thank you enough for that tid bit of info! |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 6:23:36 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naffenea: It makes ZERO sense. This is all about Blue Origin unable to do shit and so they don't want anyone else doing shit either. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naffenea: Originally Posted By Plumber576: They kinda have a point. It's not "local environment" as in plant and animals, it's about operations for NASA, BO, ULA, and others. I summarize it as BO saying, "hey, we can't have any rockets at launch pads and we have to evacuate personnel when this thing operates." From a business standpoint, that makes sense. It seems more like they are trying to force NASA to come up with a solution that won't impact their operations, which is fair since they lease property. Read the release. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ7XAzzbwAIp_vq?format=jpg&name=small Tory Bruno/ULA weighs in. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ700PfWUAAnbwF?format=jpg&name=large
I'm extremely pro-SpaceX and pro-spaceflight. I think their concerns have some merit as far as operating Kennedy Space Center goes. It makes ZERO sense. This is all about Blue Origin unable to do shit and so they don't want anyone else doing shit either. one would think that if they were ever able to get the BO to launch, NASA would put them on the schedule and they'd be able to launch. If I can watch the launch from a hotel 6 miles away, and 5 miles away on a beach and it be considered safe, their facilities 8 miles away shouldn't have a problem. I think this is more Bezo being a colossal douche. I'm not sure he can help himself though, I mean look at the guy. His rocket looks like a penis, his other rocket looks like a penis, his company logo looks like a penis, his head looks like a penis... When you have that much penis in your life, what's a guy to do? 
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Posted: 6/26/2024 7:24:18 PM EST
[#13]
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Posted: 6/26/2024 8:37:23 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naffenea: It makes ZERO sense. This is all about Blue Origin unable to do shit and so they don't want anyone else doing shit either. Jeff has, repeatedly, personally guaranteed that New Glenn will launch in Q4 of this year, with a paying NASA payload. Put up or shut up time approacheth. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/26/2024 9:02:32 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Backscatter: I'm not sure where to post this, so I will post it here. Falcon Heavy boosters returning to the landing pads. It seems so commonplace now, but I'm still amazed every time I see one land. Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 26, 2024 It will never NOT be cool! Can you imagine what Werner Von Braun would think of recovering the boosters like this? Who from the Space Race era is still alive, and what do they think of this? Gene Kranz is still alive right? Has anyone ever interviewed him? |
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Posted: 6/26/2024 9:25:08 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naffenea: It makes ZERO sense. This is all about Blue Origin unable to do shit and so they don't want anyone else doing shit either. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naffenea: Originally Posted By Plumber576: They kinda have a point. It's not "local environment" as in plant and animals, it's about operations for NASA, BO, ULA, and others. I summarize it as BO saying, "hey, we can't have any rockets at launch pads and we have to evacuate personnel when this thing operates." From a business standpoint, that makes sense. It seems more like they are trying to force NASA to come up with a solution that won't impact their operations, which is fair since they lease property. Read the release. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ7XAzzbwAIp_vq?format=jpg&name=small Tory Bruno/ULA weighs in. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ700PfWUAAnbwF?format=jpg&name=large
I'm extremely pro-SpaceX and pro-spaceflight. I think their concerns have some merit as far as operating Kennedy Space Center goes. It makes ZERO sense. This is all about Blue Origin unable to do shit and so they don't want anyone else doing shit either. I agree there's a tactic of slowing down the competition, but there also are concerns of how this country is going to handle SpaceX's desired launch pace with Starship. It's a huge, powerful, and loud rocket. If SpaceX was still developing those offshore launch platforms, we'd have our answer, but those were abandoned. Still, BO definitely comes off looking bad for filing the lawsuit. 
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Posted: 6/26/2024 9:44:18 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: I agree there's a tactic of slowing down the competition, but there also are concerns of how this country is going to handle SpaceX's desired launch pace with Starship. It's a huge, powerful, and loud rocket. If SpaceX was still developing those offshore launch platforms, we'd have our answer, but those were abandoned. SpaceX should see if they could buy some land from the King Ranch and build a launch complex somewhere between Port Mansfield and Corpus. They'd have fewer complaints about launches if the only thing nearby was a few cows. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 7:18:09 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: I agree there's a tactic of slowing down the competition, but there also are concerns of how this country is going to handle SpaceX's desired launch pace with Starship. It's a huge, powerful, and loud rocket. If SpaceX was still developing those offshore launch platforms, we'd have our answer, but those were abandoned. Still, BO definitely comes off looking bad for filing the lawsuit. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ8gX9xWkAAU8UI?format=jpg&name=small  Thanks for the laugh this morning with that photo. |
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BHS
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Posted: 6/27/2024 7:36:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: Underscore_O_Three]
[#19]
I've been at the Cape Canaveral marina for 3 launches this past year. It's ALWAYS fucking awesome to watch them with a 7 year old. Twice we've been to the Kennedy Space Center on launch day.
I have noticed that NASA kinda downplays the role of SpaceX contributions and their newest innovations. I guess it's a bit embarrassing to watch an EV guy leapfrog you by decades and do things you never considered or thought impossible. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 9:31:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plumber576: I agree there's a tactic of slowing down the competition, but there also are concerns of how this country is going to handle SpaceX's desired launch pace with Starship. It's a huge, powerful, and loud rocket. I totally agree that things will change with the planned cadence/frequency of SpaceX launches. If/when Starship is successful, lots of things are going to have to change, so I agree that there is some validity to the point. But it seems to me that is an issue for NASA and regulatory agencies to deal with, not SpaceX competitors. Blue Origin bringing this up just looks pathetic and petty, by a company that has resorted to lawfare several times previously, when they have failed to be able to compete. This is sort of like if a Soviet-funded enviro-group in the 60s tried to complain about the noise and disruption of Saturn V launches - also a huge, powerful and loud rocket. Sure, there might be an actual concern or point involved, but the shameless MOTIVE behind the complaint would be pretty obvious.  ETA: I love the graphic! 
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:33:23 PM EST
[#21]
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Posted: 6/27/2024 5:51:28 PM EST
[#22]
StarBase update with Kathy Lueders takeaway highlights: -3 months to completion of Starfactory -Working with TXDOT on expanding HWY 4 to a 4 lane road eventually -Starbase commercial retail Space on hold. -Staff residency over 50% local to Brownsville with ~400 staff living on site. -Permanent Orbital Fuel Depot for Moon + Mars missions -SpaceX monitoring sound levels for Port Isabel + SPI + Brownsville during testing. -Texas Parks & Wildlife Environmental mitigation teams in place before and after launches. -Monthly emergency management meetings with Cameron County and local hospitals for catastrophe scenarios. not live
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2024 6:01:07 PM EST
[#23]
I kind of wonder what happens next if they attempt the chopsticks booster catch, and let’s say it’s 8” off from a perfect catch, and the booster winds up just hanging there, sort of cocked to one side, precariously balanced on the chopsticks. Then what? The thing is still highly explosive and dangerous and unapproachable by people, so how do they get it down? They don’t want it to explode and ruin the tower, but people can’t get near it. Sort of like a half blown up skyscraper, except with a lot of fuel/vapors inside. I hope they have a contingency plan.
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Posted: 6/27/2024 6:49:16 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RinsableTick: I kind of wonder what happens next if they attempt the chopsticks booster catch, and let's say it's 8" off from a perfect catch, and the booster winds up just hanging there, sort of cocked to one side, precariously balanced on the chopsticks. Then what? The thing is still highly explosive and dangerous and unapproachable by people, so how do they get it down? They don't want it to explode and ruin the tower, but people can't get near it. Sort of like a half blown up skyscraper, except with a lot of fuel/vapors inside. I hope they have a contingency plan. Most of the fuel will be spent so it should be light and if the remaining fuel explodes, I don't image it will be too destructive to the current tower. For your scenario, I imagine they would hook up it up to one of the large cranes after a bit of time has elapsed. |
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Posted: 6/27/2024 6:50:34 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7: Most of the fuel will be spent so it should be light and if the remaining fuel explodes, I don't image it will be too destructive to the current tower. For your scenario, I imagine they would hook up it up to one of the large cranes after a bit of time has elapsed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7: Originally Posted By RinsableTick: I kind of wonder what happens next if they attempt the chopsticks booster catch, and let's say it's 8" off from a perfect catch, and the booster winds up just hanging there, sort of cocked to one side, precariously balanced on the chopsticks. Then what? The thing is still highly explosive and dangerous and unapproachable by people, so how do they get it down? They don't want it to explode and ruin the tower, but people can't get near it. Sort of like a half blown up skyscraper, except with a lot of fuel/vapors inside. I hope they have a contingency plan. Most of the fuel will be spent so it should be light and if the remaining fuel explodes, I don't image it will be too destructive to the current tower. For your scenario, I imagine they would hook up it up to one of the large cranes after a bit of time has elapsed. Maybe shoot some holes in the tanks to drain off any remaining LOX or methane?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2024 12:30:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: TX_Critter]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Maybe shoot some holes in the tanks to drain off any remaining LOX or methane? Or, you know, use the drain / bleed valves that exist for that exact purpose…? |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 12:37:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: redoubt]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Maybe shoot some holes in the tanks to drain off any remaining LOX or methane? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By 7: Originally Posted By RinsableTick: I kind of wonder what happens next if they attempt the chopsticks booster catch, and let's say it's 8" off from a perfect catch, and the booster winds up just hanging there, sort of cocked to one side, precariously balanced on the chopsticks. Then what? The thing is still highly explosive and dangerous and unapproachable by people, so how do they get it down? They don't want it to explode and ruin the tower, but people can't get near it. Sort of like a half blown up skyscraper, except with a lot of fuel/vapors inside. I hope they have a contingency plan. Most of the fuel will be spent so it should be light and if the remaining fuel explodes, I don't image it will be too destructive to the current tower. For your scenario, I imagine they would hook up it up to one of the large cranes after a bit of time has elapsed. Maybe shoot some holes in the tanks to drain off any remaining LOX or methane? |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 5:15:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: Chokey]
[#28]
 
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Posted: 6/28/2024 7:10:32 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redoubt: You are making a joke, but I saw a documentary about the early space program and there was a scene where one of the early rockets, maybe a Redstone or Jupiter, was having an over-pressure condition. The SOP was to shoot it with a hunting rifle to let the pressure out. Which was all kinds of bad idea. In the scene, Wernher von Braun had to physically stop the guy who was following the procedure and had grabbed the rifle and was getting ready to shoot the rocket on the pad. There's some nutty stories from those early days. I understand there was a V2 launch that went off course towards Mexico and they were unable to activate the flight termination system because one of the German engineers physically restrained the guy responsible for pressing that button. Luckily the rocket didn't land on anyone or anything important. |
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Posted: 6/29/2024 1:59:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: mPisi]
[#30]
Interesting point on the scale of things
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USA
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Posted: 6/29/2024 2:06:27 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Backscatter: I'm not sure where to post this, so I will post it here. Falcon Heavy boosters returning to the landing pads. It seems so commonplace now, but I'm still amazed every time I see one land. Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 26, 2024 I know it's been said before, but just like God and Heinlein intended. |
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Posted: 6/29/2024 2:18:36 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mPisi: Interesting point on the scale of things
Its what I think most people expected would happen after the Apollo Program wrapped up. But based on the evidence I see our technology just wasn't there at the time. Hopefully it's up to the job now but I suppose we will just have to wait and see. It seems like an awful lot science fiction authors have written stories about this where the first attempt to colonize Mars is an unmitigated disaster for various reasons. Hopefully we start with something a skosh less ambitious like the Moon. Which will not be a cakewalk. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 1:02:53 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Its what I think most people expected would happen after the Apollo Program wrapped up. But based on the evidence I see our technology just wasn't there at the time. Hopefully it's up to the job now but I suppose we will just have to wait and see. It seems like an awful lot science fiction authors have written stories about this where the first attempt to colonize Mars is an unmitigated disaster for various reasons. Hopefully we start with something a skosh less ambitious like the Moon. Which will not be a cakewalk. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By mPisi: Interesting point on the scale of things
Its what I think most people expected would happen after the Apollo Program wrapped up. But based on the evidence I see our technology just wasn't there at the time. Hopefully it's up to the job now but I suppose we will just have to wait and see. It seems like an awful lot science fiction authors have written stories about this where the first attempt to colonize Mars is an unmitigated disaster for various reasons. Hopefully we start with something a skosh less ambitious like the Moon. Which will not be a cakewalk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Applications_Program Lunar base, quite an extensive one at that. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:04:51 AM EST
[#34]
 location 25°57'47.43"N 97°12'45.64"W |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:12:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#35]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:13:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#36]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:17:19 AM EST
[#37]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:20:40 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRTM2ILWgAAAHuU?format=jpg&name=large location 25 57'47.43"N 97 12'45.64"W |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:22:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#39]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:24:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#40]
CoC 7 |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:28:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#41]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:30:19 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hadrian: What was this space intended for and why have they paused construction on it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hadrian: Originally Posted By Chokey:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRTM2ILWgAAAHuU?format=jpg&name=large location 25 57'47.43"N 97 12'45.64"W there's speculation that it could be a grocery store and other food shops and retail store, but just for SpaceX employees. 
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:40:34 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:44:22 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By Chokey:
I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. I'm afraid of how his mind works.
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:45:25 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By Chokey:
I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:00:29 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
Holy crap. LOL. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:26:16 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: You would probably get lost in there. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shooter_gregg: Originally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By Chokey:
I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. Oh I don't know, from what I've seen he's just a guy who understands that it's important to have a bit of comedy with big projects. That said I think his mind has changed quite a bit over the years. The first time I saw an interview with him was when they were working on the very first Tesla prototype. Back then Elon creeped me out. But then if anyone on this site had met me back then I probably would have creeped you out too... As for sending a ship to Uranus. I would like to see that, or at least something like the Cassini Probe to Uranus and Neptune. Most of what we know about those places is from the Voyager Probes. Which weren't able to hang around and do a whole lot of science. Just imagine the scientific instrumentation that could be loaded onto Starship. It would definitely be a step in the direction of Star Trek. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 1:06:31 PM EST
[#48]
Send a starship to orbit each planet and a couple to meander through the asteroid belt.
Equip them with a suitable power source for the mission, state of the art instruments, and a com relay to start building a starlink constellation in the solar system. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 1:17:22 PM EST
[#49]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 4:43:28 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmnoid77: Originally Posted By Chokey:
I would really love to understand how that man's mind works. Ego development level 10 |
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