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Posted: 9/26/2024 3:19:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Glck1911]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JKH62: Wish we could get a real LAM illuminator at a decent cost , bonus points if you can upgrade the diode to real output levels vs the night light regulated output levels. You don't need/can't use a LAM with thermal. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 3:31:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Did I make it in before arfcom?
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:05:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glck1911: What do you mean by "creature ID?" What conditions? Is it "Hey I see something out there"? "Hey there's a person out there"? or "Hey I can tell those are hogs and not deer"? How experienced are you? I only ask because telling the difference between animals at that distance can be pretty difficult for a lot of people even with higher res units. Just trying to get an understanding of how much of your impression is the unit vs you just knowing what you are looking at. Ah, moderately? I have a variety of other thermals and have used them in enough training exercises to know what I generally want out of a given kind of thermal (clip on, dedicated, etc.). This is not for hunting. There are much better thermal optics for that. I'd place this squarely in the "for 2A purposes" category. "Creature ID" = that's a dude with a gun vs. a deer. You're not generally getting target ID (i.e., Joe vs. John) at extended distances anyway regardless of the thermal optic, unless you're using a dedicated long range thermal rig. Honestly, the use case for a sight like this is kind of unique as the concept just didn't really exist until now, but I see this being ideal as part of a night operations loadout. I'd want solid NV capabilities for movement/target ID, definitely still a weapon mounted LAM, but having thermal as a means of passive aiming? That's fucking game changing as far as I'm concerned. Passive aiming is a really poor solution in general (relatively speaking), and this gives you the ability to scan as well without needing an additional thermal device for that. It's just...efficient in terms of workflow. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:06:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: How long does the battery last? Dunno but it comes with 2 sets of rechargeable side loaded batteries. So you have a set of in the field spares included. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:08:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Ah, moderately? I have a variety of other thermals and have used them in enough training exercises to know what I generally want out of a given kind of thermal (clip on, dedicated, etc.). This is not for hunting. There are much better thermal optics for that. I'd place this squarely in the "for 2A purposes" category. "Creature ID" = that's a dude with a gun vs. a deer. You're not generally getting target ID (i.e., Joe vs. John) at extended distances anyway regardless of the thermal optic, unless you're using a dedicated long range thermal rig. Honestly, the use case for a sight like this is kind of unique as the concept just didn't really exist until now, but I see this being ideal as part of a night operations loadout. I'd want solid NV capabilities for movement/target ID, definitely still a weapon mounted LAM, but having thermal as a means of passive aiming? That's fucking game changing as far as I'm concerned. Passive aiming is a really poor solution in general (relatively speaking), and this gives you the ability to scan as well without needing an additional thermal device for that. It's just...efficient in terms of workflow. Great explanation. Thank you. I'd agree this isn't the jam for hunting, but does seem like it would go nicely on a NV rifle meant for other things. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:41:01 PM EDT
[#6]
That's what I'm thinking too. Rats in the barn and midnight defense of the chicken coop from vermin.
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:45:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Canoeguy: The resolution was fine for the 200’ I used it in and I think this is probably best at 150 yards or so. But I didn’t find the field of view small. However, in a week I will have spent much more time with it along with 70 other ARFcommers so we can likely have a decent baseline of opinions. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Canoeguy: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: The thing that makes me pause on this, and other thermal red dots like the Sig one, is that thermal is for detection and I2 or white light is for identification. A buddy in FL has bought and sold a few Sig thermal RDS thingies, and I goofed around with one a couple years back, and I just didn’t see the appeal. The low resolution and small FOV make me think swinging a gun around with this on top to detect is suboptimal. And once you detect something the low resolution is going to make shoot/no shoot tough. May as well use a legit 1x thermal scope for night time chicken defense….or not. I’m interested to see your take on it, OP. The resolution was fine for the 200’ I used it in and I think this is probably best at 150 yards or so. But I didn’t find the field of view small. However, in a week I will have spent much more time with it along with 70 other ARFcommers so we can likely have a decent baseline of opinions. The FOV on the Sig was pretty bad. If Holosun has made it cover enough area to not require you to scan left and right constantly it might be far more useful. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:47:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Canoeguy: Is that your impression when you looked through it? I found it absolutely fine for the ranges I would utilize it at. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Canoeguy: Originally Posted By CavScout: That is an abomination! The image sucks too so good luck. Is that your impression when you looked through it? I found it absolutely fine for the ranges I would utilize it at. I think it was kind of an expensive toy, it is lighter than the big AGM’s and such but I find those so nice, it is really not something I would want to downgrade from for this. Perhaps there are plenty of uses for a 3 in 1 or 2 in 1 design but really seems limited. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:47:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 20andOUT: I can’t get the idea of one of these on an integral 22 for rodents out of my head. I think it would be a fun project. That's what I'm thinking too. Rats in the barn and midnight defense of the chicken coop from vermin.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:47:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kab85: I can get these like $600 under MSRP with my dealer pricing. Hmmm Dang, now for that? Yeah I would buy one. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:50:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2JokersWild: When your domestic options dont give a flying rats ass about the consumer market and just gargle the .gov's balls you'll get importers that are happy to fill that void. Meaning we better be thankful Holosun decided to take our money, because it just aint green enough for most of the others. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2JokersWild: Originally Posted By TheAmaazingCarl: When you ignore patent law and only pay the tiniest fraction what others do for R&D,... you can make some pretty cheap and decent stuff. Meaning we better be thankful Holosun decided to take our money, because it just aint green enough for most of the others. You certainly have a way with words. 
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:50:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Mine just came in. Cool as shit. I own other higher resolution thermals but fuck…you’re getting creature ID with this out to 300 along with the ability to make hits out of a $1600 optic that’s also a day optic. I mean damn. It’s game changing to be sure. Works well with a magnifier too. Sttttopppppppp. /sigh But also... does it have a NV mode to use the red dot under a PVS-14? |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 4:54:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MaverickH1]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Ah, moderately? I have a variety of other thermals and have used them in enough training exercises to know what I generally want out of a given kind of thermal (clip on, dedicated, etc.). This is not for hunting. There are much better thermal optics for that. I'd place this squarely in the "for 2A purposes" category. "Creature ID" = that's a dude with a gun vs. a deer. You're not generally getting target ID (i.e., Joe vs. John) at extended distances anyway regardless of the thermal optic, unless you're using a dedicated long range thermal rig. Honestly, the use case for a sight like this is kind of unique as the concept just didn't really exist until now, but I see this being ideal as part of a night operations loadout. I'd want solid NV capabilities for movement/target ID, definitely still a weapon mounted LAM, but having thermal as a means of passive aiming? That's fucking game changing as far as I'm concerned. Passive aiming is a really poor solution in general (relatively speaking), and this gives you the ability to scan as well without needing an additional thermal device for that. It's just...efficient in terms of workflow. At one point we had a raccoon snacking on all of our ducks. We ended up losing all 7 over the course of 2 nights. I'd go out with my "night gun" and my thermal monocular. I could easily spot the obvious raccoon 40 feet away in the thick underbrush under thermal. Impossible to find with NV or flashlight. It would move maybe 3' when I switched from thermal to flashlight. Just enough to lose it. The moment that I finally had it in my sights I had to take a moment to orient myself to make sure I knew what was beyond my target. That delay let it get away. At that point only 2 of our ducks were dead. It came back to kill them all, ate their faces and their asses out, then came back to snatch another. Trapped that fucker 2 days after and executed it during the day. But that sounds like it would be a PERFECT use case for this. Although spending $1600 to protect some ducks is pretty dumb. But we are set up for survival. And nobody around us is growing food and they know it. There is no shot longer than 50 yards on our property because of the vegetation. Except maybe in winter. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 5:15:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaverickH1: Sttttopppppppp. /sigh But also... does it have a NV mode to use the red dot under a PVS-14? Why yes...yes it does That said, I'm not sure I can envision a scenario where you'd want to use passive aiming with NV through the red dot rather than the thermal function...I'm sure one exists but nothing comes to mind. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 6:03:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Tag for later
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Posted: 9/26/2024 6:44:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Why yes...yes it does That said, I'm not sure I can envision a scenario where you'd want to use passive aiming with NV through the red dot rather than the thermal function...I'm sure one exists but nothing comes to mind. It'd be a rare use case... but it's one of those things I definitely "want" in a thermal/red dot combo. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 6:54:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kab85: I can get these like $600 under MSRP with my dealer pricing. Hmmm You're my new best friend 
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Posted: 9/26/2024 7:05:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Mine just came in. Cool as shit. I own other higher resolution thermals but fuck…you’re getting creature ID with this out to 300 along with the ability to make hits out of a $1600 optic that’s also a day optic. I mean damn. It’s game changing to be sure. Works well with a magnifier too. Nevermind, answered |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 7:05:22 PM EDT
[#19]
If the initial real world reviews are decent I will be putting one on my 8.3 300. It is one of my shtf guns, the other has a lvpo and is in 5.56. The 300 has a dot now, so it will still have a dot just with added abilities.
I will still keep white/ir light on it as well as a ir lazer as it just compliments each other very well. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 7:20:40 PM EDT
[#20]
So is the long distance resolution shitty on these things or what? Is this like an under 50 yards sight? What are we looking at? I know zip about thermals but a $1,000 thermal sight is very appealing to me.
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Posted: 9/26/2024 7:30:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sdc360]
[#21]
Ill stick with my sig echo... I can pic out rabbits running around at 200 yards and deer at 5-600.
Its not exactly high end but the different color options really make things pop... Makes it really easy to pick out what your looking for even at 1x My wife feeds our barn cats and apparently cat food is like crack to trash pandas... Pretty easy getting head shots at 50 yards and you can even see the thermal trace of your round going in. Crummy potato pic, this mode makes the heart/head hot spot areas red... Pretty handy for hunting situations 
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Posted: 9/26/2024 7:40:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Forgot about these, seems like it's been awhile since any news has emerged
Definitely on my list. I have no thermal or NV. I'm guessing the thermal would be the way to go for shtf use and varmint situations? Sorry if dumb question, just never had anything like this in my budget until now |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 7:43:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FlyLeaf: Forgot about these, seems like it's been awhile since any news has emerged Definitely on my list. I have no thermal or NV. I'm guessing the thermal would be the way to go for shtf use and varmint situations? Sorry if dumb question, just never had anything like this in my budget until now Thermal is a life changing event. I will go down to a single pistol and rifle before I get rid of thermal. Once you have it you quickly realize just how vulnerable you really are at night and the only way to defeat an adversary with thermal…is to have thermal yourself. People call it a super power. That’s an understatement. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 7:50:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Canoeguy: Thermal is a life changing event. I will go down to a single pistol and rifle before I get rid of thermal. Once you have it you quickly realize just how vulnerable you really are at night and the only way to defeat an adversary with thermal…is to have thermal yourself. People call it a super power. That’s an understatement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Canoeguy: Originally Posted By FlyLeaf: Forgot about these, seems like it's been awhile since any news has emerged Definitely on my list. I have no thermal or NV. I'm guessing the thermal would be the way to go for shtf use and varmint situations? Sorry if dumb question, just never had anything like this in my budget until now Thermal is a life changing event. I will go down to a single pistol and rifle before I get rid of thermal. Once you have it you quickly realize just how vulnerable you really are at night and the only way to defeat an adversary with thermal…is to have thermal yourself. People call it a super power. That’s an understatement. I can imagine it is a game changer. A weapon light just doesn't cut it in most cases. Love to see everyone's reviews on these. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 8:00:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: The FOV on the Sig was pretty bad. If Holosun has made it cover enough area to not require you to scan left and right constantly it might be far more useful. Which is what I'm hoping for |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2024 8:36:59 PM EDT
[#26]
The problem with the SIG models, is you're still focusing on a screen a few inches from your face. With the Holosun, you're looking THROUGH the thermal image, not AT it; your visual focus is still downrange. Better for quick shooting, and easier on the eyes.
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Posted: 9/26/2024 9:15:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RDTCU]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rudderbutter: The problem with the SIG models, is you're still focusing on a screen a few inches from your face. With the Holosun, you're looking THROUGH the thermal image, not AT it; your visual focus is still downrange. Better for quick shooting, and easier on the eyes. This, have played with both, and the Holosun is a much more useful optic. Close the front cover and you can zoom the thermal image on it's own. Open the front and you have a red dot with it t without thermal overlay. The outline function is the least obtrusive, it's like playing Crysis... 
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Posted: 9/26/2024 11:07:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Mine just came in. Cool as shit. I own other higher resolution thermals but fuck…you’re getting creature ID with this out to 300 along with the ability to make hits out of a $1600 optic that’s also a day optic. I mean damn. It’s game changing to be sure. Works well with a magnifier too. Thank you for the feedback, I'm excited to hear more people put hands on this. Might just have to drop some coin. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 11:09:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kab85: I can get these like $600 under MSRP with my dealer pricing. Hmmm Well share the wealth, that like your woman showing off her tits without being able to touch them. |
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Posted: 9/26/2024 11:20:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sdc360: Ill stick with my sig echo... I can pic out rabbits running around at 200 yards and deer at 5-600. Its not exactly high end but the different color options really make things pop... Makes it really easy to pick out what your looking for even at 1x My wife feeds our barn cats and apparently cat food is like crack to trash pandas... Pretty easy getting head shots at 50 yards and you can even see the thermal trace of your round going in. Crummy potato pic, this mode makes the heart/head hot spot areas red... Pretty handy for hunting situations https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54198/AFF5BA5A-0DCA-4681-9268-A18C4C002D45-2826380.jpg Not really comparable; what sets the Holosun apart is the ability to use it as a day optic as well. I think for me, the point of a GP rifle for the modern "irregular" (or whatever you want to call yourself if you take the intent of the 2A seriously and train/equip yourself accordingly) is to have something that's going to do every job kind of good-ish, as you likely won't know much about what you're about to get into if you ever have to grab it in a time of need. That's the use case I see the Holosun filling. Thus far from my very limited testing, it's probably going to be a winner. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 2:37:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Tagscribed for review
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Posted: 9/27/2024 11:41:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Bizzarolibe]
[#32]
Ok I really debated posting this but 1) I’m on a 4 year old iPhone SE (lowest quality camera in an iPhone) and it’s a still from a video…while it was raining…
But even still you can get an idea of usability. Car is about 110m (confirmed via rangefinder), house behind it is 125ish.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 11:44:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zukguy: Well share the wealth, that like your woman showing off her tits without being able to touch them. Yeah. If you've going to post that up then hook us up
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OH, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2024 11:57:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JKH62]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glck1911: You don't need/can't use a LAM with thermal. No kidding. (some of us have both) Laser illuminator / LAMS are the most overpriced item on the market and neutered to boot. Lots of good NV and thermal options.  |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 12:07:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JKH62: No kidding. (some of us have both) Laser illuminator / LAMS are the most overpriced item on the market and neutered to boot. Lots of good NV and thermal options. https://i.imgur.com/EvDkVbK.jpg I hear ya. This is a thread about thermal so I thought we were talking about thermals. Yeah, the Laser market is nuts. We can't get (afford ) any of the good stuff. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 12:11:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GordonFreeman1]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beitodesstrafe: In before the Ping Ping meme!  GD is slipping…  I’m in for reviews but will likely wait for Gen 2 |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 12:13:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By Bizzarolibe: Why yes...yes it does That said, I'm not sure I can envision a scenario where you'd want to use passive aiming with NV through the red dot rather than the thermal function...I'm sure one exists but nothing comes to mind. I can see it if you're walking around with your nvg. I imagine the thermal image being too bright and washing out/gating the nvg |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 12:16:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Canoeguy: Thermal is a life changing event. I will go down to a single pistol and rifle before I get rid of thermal. Once you have it you quickly realize just how vulnerable you really are at night and the only way to defeat an adversary with thermal…is to have thermal yourself. People call it a super power. That’s an understatement. agree. i’ve got duals and two thermals - i’m AMAZED at the shit i cannot see with nods, yet CAN with thermal. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 12:18:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DFARM: I can see it if you're walking around with your nvg. I imagine the thermal image being too bright and washing out/gating the nvg I'm one of those weirdos that rocks a single PVS-14 over my non-dominant eye. After taking a few NV classes (and doing some night FTX's), I just found passive aiming to be impractical, and for other reasons relating to my individual gear setup I opted to go monocular + COTI on non-dominant eye. Now if you're running dual tubes, yeah that becomes an issue if you have to shoot quickly. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 3:09:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: I'm one of those weirdos that rocks a single PVS-14 over my non-dominant eye. After taking a few NV classes (and doing some night FTX's), I just found passive aiming to be impractical, and for other reasons relating to my individual gear setup I opted to go monocular + COTI on non-dominant eye. Now if you're running dual tubes, yeah that becomes an issue if you have to shoot quickly. I use a -14 as well. I tried to use it on my non dominant eye and I didn't adjust well to it. I also (oddly) found that I hit it on the optic on my rifle all the time. I moved the aimpoint forward and switched eyes with the nvd and found it works better for me, both shooting and walking around. Passive aiming through the red dot was a bonus |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 3:46:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: I'm one of those weirdos that rocks a single PVS-14 over my non-dominant eye. After taking a few NV classes (and doing some night FTX's), I just found passive aiming to be impractical, and for other reasons relating to my individual gear setup I opted to go monocular + COTI on non-dominant eye. Now if you're running dual tubes, yeah that becomes an issue if you have to shoot quickly. I have no formal training and this is where I landed, too. Just by walking around the property and engaging make believe targets like I did when I was 10. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/27/2024 6:40:30 PM EDT
[#42]
The Holsuns are knock offs. Buy the actual Holosuns.
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Posted: 9/27/2024 7:01:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheAmaazingCarl: When you ignore patent law and only pay the tiniest fraction what others do for R&D,... you can make some pretty cheap and decent stuff. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 7:06:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TLD05: I want for suppressed MP5 night missions.  2k is still steep for me, I only have an 11" penis and I'm only 5'9 so I'm not up to most arfcommers standards I can sell some of my guns and get one, just not gonna be an early adopter for 2k |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 7:08:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bizzarolibe: I'm one of those weirdos that rocks a single PVS-14 over my non-dominant eye. After taking a few NV classes (and doing some night FTX's), I just found passive aiming to be impractical, and for other reasons relating to my individual gear setup I opted to go monocular + COTI on non-dominant eye. Now if you're running dual tubes, yeah that becomes an issue if you have to shoot quickly. Tests what I have, and I'm still ready to try this. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 10:26:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sdc360: Ill stick with my sig echo... I can pic out rabbits running around at 200 yards and deer at 5-600. Its not exactly high end but the different color options really make things pop... Makes it really easy to pick out what your looking for even at 1x My wife feeds our barn cats and apparently cat food is like crack to trash pandas... Pretty easy getting head shots at 50 yards and you can even see the thermal trace of your round going in. Crummy potato pic, this mode makes the heart/head hot spot areas red... Pretty handy for hunting situations https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54198/AFF5BA5A-0DCA-4681-9268-A18C4C002D45-2826380.jpg Smoke them whilst dropping a deuce? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/27/2024 10:30:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shooter66: Says it is 50 frames per sec on the specs. The thermal scopes I and others have are also 50 fps and they work fine on the incoming predators. If you plan on shooting things that will be hauling ass side to side you may get some lag. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shooter66: Originally Posted By m200maker: Digital?… what’s the delay like for a moving object? Digital in the past has been garbage. I’m not bagging on Holosun I own quite a few. Says it is 50 frames per sec on the specs. The thermal scopes I and others have are also 50 fps and they work fine on the incoming predators. If you plan on shooting things that will be hauling ass side to side you may get some lag. If it is anything like video games, 50 FPS is trash. You'd want 180+, and more if you're talking about life and death. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 10:31:16 PM EDT
[#48]
We have neutrias dropping trees on our HOA lakeside trail. I have yet to spot them with muh thermal. I am guessing that the city would be miffed if I were to shoot one anyway.
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Posted: 9/27/2024 10:32:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: If it is anything like video games, 50 FPS is trash. You'd want 180+, and more if you're talking about life and death. I don’t often offer true advice. But here is some… Nothing…absolutely nothing…is like video games. |
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Posted: 9/27/2024 10:36:07 PM EDT
[#50]
I don’t see this being useful at all given the specs and form factor/FOV, but I hope I’m wrong. I’ll be looking forward to trying one out.
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