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Posted: 1/25/2023 6:58:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I honestly agree with this. The Biden Administration has repeatedly hamstrung aid to Ukraine, especially in terms of things like long range PGMs, MBTs and IFVs (which are just starting to come now), aircraft, etc. If we really wanted to, we could have had the Ukrainians equipped with tons of MBTs and IFVs, at least training on Western aircraft and setting up the logistics for them, and presently smashing targets deep in the Russian rear with ATACMS and GLSDB. Why haven't we been willing to commit to that level? I don't really know for sure. My suspicion is twofold: Biden is actually scared of provoking Russia, and there's elements within our intelligence agencies who want to drag this out as long as possible, in order to ensure Russia bleeds as long as possible. Still, I think we don't actually have to put boots on the ground in order to expel the Russians. With lots of NATO MBTs and IFVs, ATACMS and GLSDB (to hit deep in the Russian rear), and Western aircraft, I think they'd probably throw the Russians out. I guess I'm too familiar with the history of war since '45 to just accept that we are acting in anyway altruistic. We may help the average Ukrainian along the way but it's not on anyone's PowerPoint stack |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:01:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Cool. If they send their best to the US today, they will be able to fight in A-37s in about 3 years. If they send their best to the US today, about 20% of them will be ready to fight in an F-16 about 5 years.
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:02:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well after being assured by GD that the American military is nothing but woke trannies that will never win a war. Why not give Ukraine F-22s and F-35s? |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:04:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Lord of War says...send us all your weapons...
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:05:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Ukraine crackhead meme
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:11:37 PM EDT
[#6]
This IS going to end in open conflict, we might as well get this party started. Send them our old stuff, mock and deride Europe into sending them whatever else they need, grab some popcorn and a generator.
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:16:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool. If they send their best to the US today, they will be able to fight in A-37s in about 3 years. If they send their best to the US today, about 20% of them will be ready to fight in an F-16 about 5 years. What? You do realize the Ukrainians have mastered flight and even have jet fighters and people that can fly said jet fighters? |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:17:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup according to deep thinkers here in GD the military has gone woke and is controlled by liberals that hate America and no way they would let their children enlist bla bla bla. Why would they not want to disarm them? Unless of course they dont want them weapons used on someone they support Exactly. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:20:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool. If they send their best to the US today, they will be able to fight in A-37s in about 3 years. If they send their best to the US today, about 20% of them will be ready to fight in an F-16 about 5 years. Ukraine is full of engineers and scientists. They were the R&D center for the Soviet Union. These are the guys that designed and 3-d printed the means to drop grenades from commercial drones. They build their own missiles and weapons. They're just in the middle of a freaking war... They aren't idiots and they aren't third worlders either. The Russians are stealing PLUMBING and appliances from Ukraine. They've been flying modern jet fighters throughout this war. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:46:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Dutch...the Danes...who else? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: F16s are everywhere in Europe. Not to mention they have been training on them since July |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 7:57:51 PM EDT
[#11]
How many Ukrainians does it take to fly a drone?
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:00:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine is full of engineers and scientists. They were the R&D center for the Soviet Union. These are the guys that designed and 3-d printed the means to drop grenades from commercial drones. They build their own missiles and weapons. They're just in the middle of a freaking war... They aren't idiots and they aren't third worlders either. The Russians are stealing PLUMBING and appliances from Ukraine. They've been flying modern jet fighters throughout this war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Cool. If they send their best to the US today, they will be able to fight in A-37s in about 3 years. If they send their best to the US today, about 20% of them will be ready to fight in an F-16 about 5 years. Ukraine is full of engineers and scientists. They were the R&D center for the Soviet Union. These are the guys that designed and 3-d printed the means to drop grenades from commercial drones. They build their own missiles and weapons. They're just in the middle of a freaking war... They aren't idiots and they aren't third worlders either. The Russians are stealing PLUMBING and appliances from Ukraine. They've been flying modern jet fighters throughout this war. Cool. They are smarter than our best and brightest. We can rewrite our UPT syllabus. And fighter lead in. And the B-course. They can skip all the survival stuff because if they agree to bolt the ejection seat pins. Maybe we have been doing it wrong all these decades. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:01:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We already are. We are just dragging it out. That works in the case of a cold war. But if we believe the cause of ending the suffering of the Ukrainians is a worthy one, and I think it is, what we are doing is prolonging the war. My argument is that while good dudes like Hiram and others think that is the motivation...I don't think our actions support that conclusion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You want US to fight the Russians? We are just dragging it out. That works in the case of a cold war. But if we believe the cause of ending the suffering of the Ukrainians is a worthy one, and I think it is, what we are doing is prolonging the war. My argument is that while good dudes like Hiram and others think that is the motivation...I don't think our actions support that conclusion. We are a third party in this conflict providing arms to the guys defending their homes. What do we have to do with dragging it out? |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:04:10 PM EDT
[#14]
If the goal is to stop the violence, the solution is to surrender Crimea and get peace.
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:05:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Next, Zelenskyyy will demand nuclear warheads. He’s already threatened to nuke Russia a couple of month back.
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:07:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the goal is to stop the violence, the solution is to surrender Crimea and get peace. Russia had full control over Crimea from 2014 onwards and still invaded the entirety of Ukraine in 2022. How does that support your theory? |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:08:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Yellen took money from the Government pensions CSRS and Thrift Savings so we can send 100s of billions to Ukraine. Sorry .gov workers, we need a pointless war!
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:11:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the goal is to stop the violence, the solution is to surrender Crimea and get peace. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:13:13 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:14:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yellen took money from the Government pensions CSRS and Thrift Savings so we can send 100s of billions to Ukraine. Sorry .gov workers, we need a pointless war! |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:22:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have every right to fight for their country. But my country is broke, so they don't have a right to use my tax dollars to do it. LOL! That ship has sailed a long time ago. We are $31 trillion in debt. We have a $5 trillion a year Federal budget. What we give the Ukrainians don't even fall into the roundup. Since there is no chance in hell that we are ever going to be fiscally responsible then why not waste the money on helping the Ukrainians to defeat the Z-Orcs? Since it is a given that we are wasting money then that is better than wasting the money providing welfare to millions of goddamn Illegals or building stupid EV charging stations. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:25:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine is full of engineers and scientists. They were the R&D center for the Soviet Union. These are the guys that designed and 3-d printed the means to drop grenades from commercial drones. They build their own missiles and weapons. They're just in the middle of a freaking war... They aren't idiots and they aren't third worlders either. The Russians are stealing PLUMBING and appliances from Ukraine. They've been flying modern jet fighters throughout this war. You just don’t hop in a F16, go through a B course at 70ish flying hours and come out real proficient to fly in a highly contested air defense. Not to mention provide CAS/work with a combined arms. An F16 is pretty complex to use and get results with I’m not a fighter pilot but realize that it takes years to hone a skill. And piloting/fighting a fighter effectively isn’t a few flights thing. There is a reason pilots have to do 11 years in the AF. And it isn’t to get our money out of them for training, it’s the experience that they provide. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:28:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Are they actually paying for this stuff, or is it “aid”?
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:29:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They really do want war. Um... you know they've been fighting a full blown invasion for the past 11 months, right? |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:32:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the goal is to stop the violence, the solution is to surrender Crimea and get peace. Russia isn't even offering that. Not that they'd honor it if they did. Your solution is myopic, to put it mildly. Russia HAD Crimea. They took it in 2014 and Ukraine was in no position to take it back any time soon (or ever) when Russia invaded them. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:33:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry, that means endless suffering for the population of Ukraine. Not acceptable. Russia can pull back at any time and the bloodshed ends on both sides. They were the aggressor. They are slaughtering civilians en mass. Only fighting them to a stalemate means they will fight longer and more people will die, more homes destroyed, more children orphaned. Back down to Russia and Iran, North Korea, China, Venezuela, and every other despot will know that they can win by refusing to respect the laws of war and threatening WMDs if anybody tries to intervene. Not looking for our troops to be over there fighting the Russians, but I'm all for training the Ukrainians and arming the with the equipment needed to defang the bear. Should send advisors ! Never been dun befo ! |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:38:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Dutch...the Danes...who else? Belgium, Poland |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:38:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Dutch...the Danes...who else? Belgium, Poland, Norway |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:42:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are 100% correct, Russia should surrender Crimea and get the fuck out of Ukraine and peace would be achieved |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:46:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should say a world war than. And Russia won't go nuclear with us or anyone else over Ukraine. Even if we gave them the top of the line, newest F16s off Lockmarts assembly line, most of those jets would be smoking holes in the ground within 3 months and probable contributed very little. 3 months is overly optimistic. More like 3 days, or MAYBE 3 weeks at best if they keep some in reserve. Doesn't matter if it's an Eagle or a Viper or a Fulcrum or a Flanker....aerial warfare is so much more than just the fighter aircraft. You can give the Ukrainians F-15s and F-16s. You can TRY to train them in record time to be CMR (Combat Mission Ready). You could even give them the latest and greatest fighters with towed decoys and jammers and RWR gear yada yada yada.... ...the Russians would shoot them down as easily as clubbing baby seals. The SA-20/S-300 SAMs Russia uses are some of the best there are. Without a multi-tiered approach to defeating their IADS (Integrated Air Defense System), we'd save more Ukrainian fighter pilot lives by burning the millions of dollars we'd waste sending them flying coffins to go be martyrs in. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:50:32 PM EDT
[#31]
I think the Dutch said they are willing to transfer their old F-16s. We've already converted the oldest F-16s into target drones. These days we can build cheaper drones than maintaining F-16s to be flying targets.
May as well send over the old F-16s that will get scrapped or blown up.  
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:52:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3 months is overly optimistic. More like 3 days, or MAYBE 3 weeks at best if they keep some in reserve. Doesn't matter if it's an Eagle or a Viper or a Fulcrum or a Flanker....aerial warfare is so much more than just the fighter aircraft. You can give the Ukrainians F-15s and F-16s. You can TRY to train them in record time to be CMR (Combat Mission Ready). You could even give them the latest and greatest fighters with towed decoys and jammers and RWR gear yada yada yada.... ...the Russians would shoot them down as easily as clubbing baby seals. The SA-20/S-300 SAMs Russia uses are some of the best there are. Without a multi-tiered approach to defeating their IADS (Integrated Air Defense System), we'd save more Ukrainian fighter pilot lives by burning the millions of dollars we'd waste sending them flying coffins to go be martyrs in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You should say a world war than. And Russia won't go nuclear with us or anyone else over Ukraine. Even if we gave them the top of the line, newest F16s off Lockmarts assembly line, most of those jets would be smoking holes in the ground within 3 months and probable contributed very little. 3 months is overly optimistic. More like 3 days, or MAYBE 3 weeks at best if they keep some in reserve. Doesn't matter if it's an Eagle or a Viper or a Fulcrum or a Flanker....aerial warfare is so much more than just the fighter aircraft. You can give the Ukrainians F-15s and F-16s. You can TRY to train them in record time to be CMR (Combat Mission Ready). You could even give them the latest and greatest fighters with towed decoys and jammers and RWR gear yada yada yada.... ...the Russians would shoot them down as easily as clubbing baby seals. The SA-20/S-300 SAMs Russia uses are some of the best there are. Without a multi-tiered approach to defeating their IADS (Integrated Air Defense System), we'd save more Ukrainian fighter pilot lives by burning the millions of dollars we'd waste sending them flying coffins to go be martyrs in. I was being conservative. But I agree with you. It would be a huge waste to give Aircraft to Ukraine. They just wouldn’t use them to their potential and would be better to give that aid in other ways. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:55:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was being conservative. But I agree with you. It would be a huge waste to give Aircraft to Ukraine. They just wouldn’t use them to their potential and would be better to give that aid in other ways. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You should say a world war than. And Russia won't go nuclear with us or anyone else over Ukraine. Even if we gave them the top of the line, newest F16s off Lockmarts assembly line, most of those jets would be smoking holes in the ground within 3 months and probable contributed very little. 3 months is overly optimistic. More like 3 days, or MAYBE 3 weeks at best if they keep some in reserve. Doesn't matter if it's an Eagle or a Viper or a Fulcrum or a Flanker....aerial warfare is so much more than just the fighter aircraft. You can give the Ukrainians F-15s and F-16s. You can TRY to train them in record time to be CMR (Combat Mission Ready). You could even give them the latest and greatest fighters with towed decoys and jammers and RWR gear yada yada yada.... ...the Russians would shoot them down as easily as clubbing baby seals. The SA-20/S-300 SAMs Russia uses are some of the best there are. Without a multi-tiered approach to defeating their IADS (Integrated Air Defense System), we'd save more Ukrainian fighter pilot lives by burning the millions of dollars we'd waste sending them flying coffins to go be martyrs in. I was being conservative. But I agree with you. It would be a huge waste to give Aircraft to Ukraine. They just wouldn’t use them to their potential and would be better to give that aid in other ways. I don't expect Ukraine to be doing bombing runs on Russian positions. I expect them to help shoot down drones/cruise missiles and add another layer of threats for Russian helis/attack aircraft near the front lines. Essentially, another tool to help deny Russian forces from sending out their own aircraft. Unless Ukraine gets 400+ fighters with modern equipment and some AWACS they're not going to win an air war. The good news is Russia can't accomplish that either so it isn't that necessary. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 8:58:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What? You do realize the Ukrainians have mastered flight and even have jet fighters and people that can fly said jet fighters? You don't just take pilots and turn them into combat mission ready pilots in American hardware at the drop of the hat. I went to UPT in 2001 and wound up at my first squadron in 2003. I may have been signed off as CMR in 16 sorties at my squadron, but it took another year before I was a really smart, independently critical thinking wingman ready to do flight lead upgrade. So let's call that 3.5 years. I was also brought up fully within the U.S./NATO training environment, which is completely different than being trained in a former Soviet-bloc country on Soviet-style equipment. Someone upstream said it would take 5 years before even 20% of the pilots they sent us could pass muster in Vipers or Eagles IF we didn't just rubber stamp them as good to go. I have to agree with that assessment. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:02:54 PM EDT
[#35]
What about 1000 Skyraiders flying low? I'm just curious could an old school mass strike get through a modern defense?
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:02:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't expect Ukraine to be doing bombing runs on Russian positions. I expect them to help shoot down drones/cruise missiles and add another layer of threats for Russian helis/attack aircraft near the front lines. Essentially, another tool to help deny Russian forces from sending out their own aircraft. Unless Ukraine gets 400+ fighters with modern equipment and some AWACS they're not going to win an air war. The good news is Russia can't accomplish that either so it isn't that necessary. Patriot or any ADA would be way more effective and wouldn’t waste the pilots that Ukraine has left or airframes. You don’t have F16/15 for cruise missiles and drones. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:04:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many F4s in storage? None. We used them all as target drones. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:15:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about 1000 Skyraiders flying low? I'm just curious could an old school mass strike get through a modern defense? Quantity has its merits. We ran N.Vietnam outta SAMs back in Linebacker II supposedly. Put a lotta guys in the Hilton and lost a lotta aircraft. We found their pain threshold but at what expense? So it could work. But finding 1000 sky raiders would be amazing. Along with finding the fools to actually pilot them in that contested airspace. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:15:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never thought I would see people on the right talking shit about people that are fighting for their countries right to even exist. don't see where defending the (D) $$$$ laundry operation is a concern for me in the run-up to all of this, the negotiators had a deal that Ukraine would remain neutral, Russia said OK & they were going to draw down 50K troops hours later that same day, your VP, Heels Up Harris, stated that the US was going OK both Ukraine & Georgia into NATO, scuttling the agreement, 72 hours later the war started the highlighted part told me immediately that Joe & the 'Ho were not interested in peace and as good little democrats wanted a war |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:17:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Ukraine needs a modern day Chennault and some "Earthquake McGoon's".
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:18:10 PM EDT
[#41]
I know this may not be a popular factoid but NATO agreed to stay off of Russia's borders after the USSR broke up. The USA pushing Ukraine NATO membership plus getting Ukraine to surrender their nuclear weapons caused all this shit. USA crossed a line and Russia did stupid Russian shit because the USA broke a promise trying to get Ukraine to join NATO. Basically the "word" of the USA doesn't mean shit because we have pulled out or fucked over everyone we promised to help every time since the Korean War. It's amazing to me that any country we make a treaty with takes us seriously at all. We literally wasted American blood for 20 years to remove the Taliban only to hand the country back to them on a silver platter. What was the point of that. Not one American life was worth that whole shitbox of a country.
The only high side to all this is at least the US military is getting some world class logistics training on moving our gear worldwide. Should be a good warm up for when that fucking Winnie the Pooh commie decides to get froggy with Taiwan. That will be the next upcoming shit show. 
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:33:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't just take pilots and turn them into combat mission ready pilots in American hardware at the drop of the hat. I went to UPT in 2001 and wound up at my first squadron in 2003. I may have been signed off as CMR in 16 sorties at my squadron, but it took another year before I was a really smart, independently critical thinking wingman ready to do flight lead upgrade. So let's call that 3.5 years. I was also brought up fully within the U.S./NATO training environment, which is completely different than being trained in a former Soviet-bloc country on Soviet-style equipment. Someone upstream said it would take 5 years before even 20% of the pilots they sent us could pass muster in Vipers or Eagles IF we didn't just rubber stamp them as good to go. I have to agree with that assessment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What? You do realize the Ukrainians have mastered flight and even have jet fighters and people that can fly said jet fighters? You don't just take pilots and turn them into combat mission ready pilots in American hardware at the drop of the hat. I went to UPT in 2001 and wound up at my first squadron in 2003. I may have been signed off as CMR in 16 sorties at my squadron, but it took another year before I was a really smart, independently critical thinking wingman ready to do flight lead upgrade. So let's call that 3.5 years. I was also brought up fully within the U.S./NATO training environment, which is completely different than being trained in a former Soviet-bloc country on Soviet-style equipment. Someone upstream said it would take 5 years before even 20% of the pilots they sent us could pass muster in Vipers or Eagles IF we didn't just rubber stamp them as good to go. I have to agree with that assessment. That guy upstream was me. I took the F4G Weasel track as an EWO. About 3 years to mission ready. Then the AWACS pilot track to AC on a national asset. About another 3 years. But hey, what do I know. This is the GD, where everyone is a genius. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:37:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know this may not be a popular factoid but NATO agreed to stay off of Russia's borders after the USSR broke up. The USA pushing Ukraine NATO membership plus getting Ukraine to surrender their nuclear weapons caused all this shit. USA crossed a line and Russia did stupid Russian shit because the USA broke a promise trying to get Ukraine to join NATO. Basically the "word" of the USA doesn't mean shit because we have pulled out or fucked over everyone we promised to help every time since the Korean War. It's amazing to me that any country we make a treaty with takes us seriously at all. We literally wasted American blood for 20 years to remove the Taliban only to hand the country back to them on a silver platter. What was the point of that. Not one American life was worth that whole shitbox of a country. The only high side to all this is at least the US military is getting some world class logistics training on moving our gear worldwide. Should be a good warm up for when that fucking Winnie the Pooh commie decides to get froggy with Taiwan. That will be the next upcoming shit show. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:43:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Poland, Portugal, Belgium, Norway, Romania Lockmart sells the shit out of those things. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:51:45 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are a third party in this conflict providing arms to the guys defending their homes. What do we have to do with dragging it out? If we are fighting for freedom what level of support is appropriate? Wouldn't it be best to start stacking Russians wholesale? If nobody believes the nuclear Saber rattling...what's stopping us from saving the Ukrainians? |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:52:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know this may not be a popular factoid but NATO agreed to stay off of Russia's borders after the USSR broke up. The USA pushing Ukraine NATO membership plus getting Ukraine to surrender their nuclear weapons caused all this shit. USA crossed a line and Russia did stupid Russian shit because the USA broke a promise trying to get Ukraine to join NATO. Basically the "word" of the USA doesn't mean shit because we have pulled out or fucked over everyone we promised to help every time since the Korean War. It's amazing to me that any country we make a treaty with takes us seriously at all. We literally wasted American blood for 20 years to remove the Taliban only to hand the country back to them on a silver platter. What was the point of that. Not one American life was worth that whole shitbox of a country. The only high side to all this is at least the US military is getting some world class logistics training on moving our gear worldwide. Should be a good warm up for when that fucking Winnie the Pooh commie decides to get froggy with Taiwan. That will be the next upcoming shit show. There was never any agreement. Please show me where. When Russia invades Georgia and Moldova their “word” is void. They don’t care about nato, they care about having nations weak and vulnerable for exploitation |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 9:58:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone with half a brain that can remember the Clinton Admin? They convinced Ukraine to dispose of their Nukes, and in return we would help them if needed. Is this not correct?? Kinda like all the treaties we had with the Indians that we broke every one? And then slaughtered them at Wounded Knee? Pepperidge Farms remembers. |
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Posted: 1/25/2023 10:26:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guess we're lucky the French didn't feel the same way about a bunch of filthy colonists... They spent 1.3 BILLION Livres to help us defeat the British who spent 250 million pounds on the war. We spent $400 million on war wages. Sometimes we forget that we owe our independence to the enemy of our enemy fucking a mutual enemy. They kinda went broke and then had a revolution. It was a big thing. Cake and heads rolling. Nappy went on a tour of the Continent and had a long way back. He got his stool pushed in at Waterloo. They've been pretty much irrevellant since then. They again got their stool pushed in the 20th century and are about to implode internally right now. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 12:09:17 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 1/26/2023 12:09:21 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Dutch...the Danes...who else? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: F16s are everywhere in Europe. Not to mention they have been training on them since July Serious? Turkey, Greece, Poland, Portugal, Romania |
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