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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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So putin didn't take the bait and now Ukraine has to pull troops to try to stop the Russian advance?
This is a shit show. |
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"…unrivaled fervor for killing..."
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Originally Posted By xd341: So putin didn't take the bait and now Ukraine has to pull troops to try to stop the Russian advance? This is a shit show. View Quote Not exactly Both Russia and Ukraine are repositioning units from “quieter” areas to either Kursk or Pokrovsk. In this specific example the Ukrainian unit is from southern Ukraine area. There’s also some news articles misrepresenting ISW by stating Russia had relocated units from Pokrovsk to Kursk contrary to ISW which stated yesterday Russia MAYBE relocated units. Again there’s at least 4 weeks probably 8 weeks for all this to play out. I’m waiting to see if Ukraine has and employs a domestic missile from Kursk for deep strikes given US reluctance to approve long range “deep strikes” inside Russia. There’s also according to CNN article about Ukraine’s representatives meeting yesterday with the White House that future additional ATACMS may not be available to Ukraine. Anyway, the article is just for reference/ data point |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Sounds to me like it's a game of high-stakes poker. Putin is gambling that he can afford to deal with the fact that the Ukrainians are running around his country as long as he gets the victory at Pokhrovsk to divert from that. The Ukrainians had hoped that the incursion would divert troops, which it didn't, and now they have to scramble to get reinforcements into Pokhrovsk. Guess their gamble is that they're continuing the incursion to keep the pressure on Putin internally in the hope that something will give
Guess we'll have to wait to find out what happens like everyone else. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
Originally Posted By daemon734: Ukraine thought so, Russia didn't. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By daemon734: Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Is Russian land captured and hundreds of thousands of Russian citizens forced to become refugees really “bait”? Ukraine thought so, Russia didn't. I don’t think so. |
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"…unrivaled fervor for killing..."
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Found this interesting article in The Moscow Times (opposition newspaper shut down by Putin in 2017). Putin will most definitely paying a price by the decisions he's making, even if he reaches his Pokhrovsky objective.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/08/30/ukraines-kursk-incursion-has-exposed-russias-hollow-civic-identity-a86198 Ukraine's Kursk Incursion Has Exposed Russia's Hollow Civic Identity In democratic countries, autumn is the start of the political season. In authoritarian countries like Russia, it is a time when society finally starts to feel the effects of all the negative decisions that the government made during the summer, as well as a time in which people pay even less attention to what is going on across the country. Ukraine's Kursk offensive has accelerated these processes, revealed them as clearly as possible and set the context in which a number of trends will start to appear with even greater force and speed. Confusion and strange reactions The most important trend is the fading of Russian civic consciousness to complete absence and, more importantly, the absence of even a regional identity in regions where ethnic Russians comprise the majority. In parts of the country where other nationalities make up the majority or a significant part of the population (primarily the republics of the North Caucasus), on the contrary, regional identity is very strong. Russians' reaction to the Kursk region offensive closely resembles how they reacted to Yevgeny Prigozhin's mutiny a year ago. It is one of complete apathy and shifting the responsibility for solving the problem to the federal authorities and law enforcement. Ironically, this is the public reaction that the Kremlin itself has sought to achieve with all of its actions over the past 25 years and especially the past three years. Its efforts have resulted in the average Russian being completely deprived of civic subjectivity, with any manifestation of it immediately punishable by criminal sentences or being forced out of the country under threat of imprisonment. Any horizontal links, much less institutionalized ones (NGOs, associations, etc.) are under strict control. If an organization deviates from the ideological norm, the mildest reaction established by the regime is to declare it a "foreign agent" with all the numerous, constantly expanding restrictions that accompany this status. So the Kursk operation demonstrated that civic identity is a formality for Russians and that it does not grow stronger in times of crisis. Not even Kursk region residents lined up at military enlistment offices after Ukraine launched its attack on Aug. 6. It would thus be strange to expect that men from the Zabaikalsky region in Siberia, for example, would line up to defend Kursk. Moreover, the Kremlin has once again demonstrated its inability to respond to a serious crisis quickly. Three weeks have already passed since the Kursk incursion began. The territory occupied by Ukrainian forces is expanding, but the Russian army is carrying out the same task: fulfilling the Kremlin's desire to seize more territory in the Donbas. Other people's lands are de facto more important than the safety and suffering of their own population: combat-ready Russian troops are concentrated on the Donetsk front, and the Kremlin is demonstratively not going to use them to drive Ukrainian forces out of Russia. If we translate this into the Russian propaganda discourse, then the abstract "Russians of Donbas" are more important to Putin than the very real Russians of the Kursk region. You can also see Putin's indifference to his citizens and, at the same time, his irresistible urge to meddle in other people's affairs by looking at what he's done since the start of the Kursk operation. He traveled to Azerbaijan to see Ilham Aliyev, toured the North Caucasus, tearfully praised the Chechens ("If you participate, you have already won" would be a great slogan for the TikTok warriors) and received Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Putin's untimely visit to Beslan offered the only indirect reaction to the fact that the Kursk region is increasingly under Ukrainian control: though the anniversary of the terrible terrorist attack was still three weeks away, the Kremlin decided to link those tragic events to the "counter-terrorism regime" in the Kursk region. Of course, one can use political technologists' argument that Putin adheres to the principle that his face should be associated only with good news. But this argument is shattered by the abandonment and bitterness felt by tens of thousands of Kursk residents something that makes the residents of Russia's other border regions think long and hard. 100,000 inexplicable Russians One of the crises that Russian society is already facing and this crisis will flare up again in the fall! is the creation of between 100,000 and 200,000 internally displaced people. In the Russian media, they are ignorantly called "refugees." We saw the same confusion with terminology in Ukraine at the very beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian war in 2014. One could argue, based on the Ukrainian experience: "It's okay, you will figure out how to correctly refer to them, there will be enough time for that." In the short term, displaced Russians will not be able to return to their homes, both because of the fighting and because of the destruction not just by Ukrainian forces that the war is inflicting on their property. The Kremlin is already feeling social pressure, albeit moderate, and obviously does not know what to do with people who have had to leave their homes and livelihoods. The surprisingly ill-conceived proposal to resettle Kursk evacuees in the occupied part of Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia region confirms this further. The countdown for the plateau of stability for Putin's regime started from the moment of Prigozhin's plane crash and the failed Ukrainian counteroffensive of summer 2023. The calculation was to control the overall pace of combat operations: Russia's army was pressing and suffering losses, but advancing in the Donbas. Pure calculation and nothing more: captured territories are exchanged for the lives of soldiers, which, in turn, are bought with petrodollars in the form of payments for signing a contract. In the Kremlin's scheme, Ukraine was supposed to defend itself and slowly cede territory. An essential condition for maintaining this plateau politically was the absence of a new mobilization wave and major operational failures by the Russian military. The events in Kursk have shown everyone the Kremlin most of all that its chosen strategy of replenishing the Russian army through predominantly financial incentives does not allow it to build up sufficient strategic reserves or a manpower advantage over the Ukrainian military. Multilevel recruiting through payments, pardoning criminals, forcing conscripts to sign contracts, granting Russian citizenship to foreign citizens is only enough to replenish heavy daily losses ("meat assaults") and maintain the army's current numbers. The current hybrid mobilization efforts will not be enough. They have already not been enough for the new front in the Kursk region: it must be closed, either at the expense of other sections of the front or by switching to defensive actions and handing the initiative to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, or by forced mobilization, like we saw in the fall of 2022. Added to this is the politically precarious role of conscript soldiers in combat operations. Under Russian law, they can be sent into combat after four months, but the inevitable losses among them will lead to serious negative consequences even among loyal Russians. Conscripts are predominantly 18-20-year-olds, and their deaths will have a strong resonance even in a subjectless Russian society. At the same time, they will confirm that the Russian army has degraded to the point where it cannot fight a full-fledged war with professional soldiers. Once again, combined with operational failure, indifference to the hardships of people living in the border region and a new wave of mass mobilization looming on the horizon, this is yet more evidence that Putin does not keep his word; he has repeatedly promised not to involve conscripts in combat operations. With the onset of fall, we will witness not just the end of the plateau of stability of Putin's regime, but even more fundamental processes. It will be the beginning of the erosion of his image in the public consciousness and the desacralization of his power. A new reality In the system Putin has built, where he is presented as the alpha and omega, this erosion poses the greatest danger to domestic stability. Most importantly, the discontent eating away at this carefully constructed image of the "father of the nation" will crystallize inside Russia and not just among the active part of society. Though they will lack a political or ideological basis, there will be protests. No "beautiful Russia of the future" for you! Rather, they will be movements of relatives of conscripts, internally displaced persons and their relatives, residents of border regions who feel the kinetic consequences of the war and Russians who would be targeted in a second mass mobilization. In other words, we could be talking about millions of Russians. We do not even need to mention the impending economic and financial risks here; the reasons already cited, which directly affect Russians' everyday lives, are sufficient. Their apolitical nature makes them all the more serious and dangerous for the Kremlin because they will engage very broad segments of society. The first manifestations may be sporadic graffiti, musical works or other forms of audiovisual art, jokes and changes in everyday discourse related to the perception of Putin and his ability to lead the country and move it forward. It is not for nothing that the Kremlin is currently paying so much attention to testing all sorts of blocking of social networks and messengers. The main reason for this is not only the desire to shield society from the "corrosive influence of the West" and the Russian opposition but also to rein in unethical domestic Russian media. Unable to prevent the crystallization of discontent, the Kremlin will try to stop their spread. It will try to do what it did in local social media communities in the Kursk region after Ukraine started its offensive erase all negative comments and warn of liability for new posts. One way or another, this will become a new reality that has every chance of multiplying: from the now-famous "Sudzha Native" Telegram channel to all of Russia. View Quote The biggest threat to Russian will be when the war actually ends. They are currently booming due to massive spending on the wartime effort. Once that bubble pops, all the things that have been waiting to destroy Russia's economy will come home to roost. TANSTAAFL. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
Russia has shown that body count has no effect on them. Another 500k could die and they wouldn't budge. Ukraine has to find a way to destroy Russia's missile launch platforms. The ships and aircraft firing the missiles have to be taken out for any progress to be made
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Found this interesting article in The Moscow Times (opposition newspaper shut down by Putin in 2017). Putin will most definitely paying a price by the decisions he's making, even if he reaches his Pokhrovsky objective. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/08/30/ukraines-kursk-incursion-has-exposed-russias-hollow-civic-identity-a86198 The biggest threat to Russian will be when the war actually ends. They are currently booming due to massive spending on the wartime effort. Once that bubble pops, all the things that have been waiting to destroy Russia's economy will come home to roost. TANSTAAFL. View Quote IF and obviously nobody knows the future but if things kick off elsewhere such as over Taiwan…..the Korean Peninsula……Iran over its nuclear progress I imagine Russia will sell weapons to their allies, Iran has a shit economy that would practically evaporate in a war but China could be more resilient depending on Europe, not natural gas but oil reduction from the Mideast etc that has already been discussed in threads at length, would impact their economy and military, all that being said, until Moscow can demonstrate it can make more than a handful of SU57s S-350 S-500 or all the other shit for its own forces it may be a moot point. But I think it’s clear Moscow NEEDS its BFFs to engage in wars in their AOs to give itself some breathing room economically and militarily and diplomatically |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Found this interesting article in The Moscow Times (opposition newspaper shut down by Putin in 2017). Putin will most definitely paying a price by the decisions he's making, even if he reaches his Pokhrovsky objective. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/08/30/ukraines-kursk-incursion-has-exposed-russias-hollow-civic-identity-a86198 The biggest threat to Russian will be when the war actually ends. They are currently booming due to massive spending on the wartime effort. Once that bubble pops, all the things that have been waiting to destroy Russia's economy will come home to roost. TANSTAAFL. View Quote He would blame their deaths on the savage Ukraine invaders. The videos of the humane treatment of Russians will be deemed Ukraine propaganda and citizens will be told these people were later raped and murdered. The Russian citizens didn't even put up a fight, for this Putin will declare them collaborators and the entire region will be cleansed. Nothing will really change until Ukraine can mass forces and deliver daily large scale attacks on Moscow, which is unlikely to happen. IMO US isn't going to allow large scale bombardment of Moscow with US weapons. I could be wrong and it will be interesting to see. |
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Originally Posted By FreefallRet: Those 300k refugees could be wiped out and Putin wouldn't care. He would blame their deaths on the savage Ukraine invaders. The videos of the humane treatment of Russians will be deemed Ukraine propaganda and citizens will be told these people were later raped and murdered. The Russian citizens didn't even put up a fight, for this Putin will declare them collaborators and the entire region will be cleansed. Nothing will really change until Ukraine can mass forces and deliver daily large scale attacks on Moscow, which is unlikely to happen. IMO US isn't going to allow large scale bombardment of Moscow with US weapons. I could be wrong and it will be interesting to see. View Quote Ukraine May have developed its own missiles or the U.S. may change its position on matters but the clock is ticking https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/us-holds-firm-ukraine-american-weapons-strike-deep/story?id=113278698 https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-long-range-missile-palianytsia-1f0a1eaf560bb2c1fd70ddd56a39968d https://www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-ato/3901080-zelensky-praises-domestic-arms-procucers-says-more-military-targets-inside-russia-must-be-attacked.html |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: IF and obviously nobody knows the future but if things kick off elsewhere such as over Taiwan…..the Korean Peninsula……Iran over its nuclear progress I imagine Russia will sell weapons to their allies, Iran has a shit economy that would practically evaporate in a war but China could be more resilient depending on Europe, not natural gas but oil reduction from the Mideast etc that has already been discussed in threads at length, would impact their economy and military, all that being said, until Moscow can demonstrate it can make more than a handful of SU57s S-350 S-500 or all the other shit for its own forces it may be a moot point. But I think it’s clear Moscow NEEDS its BFFs to engage in wars in their AOs to give itself some breathing room economically and militarily and diplomatically View Quote If any of those possible conflicts kick off that you mentioned it would severely affect Ukraine negatively. Weapons and munition shipments would dry up if the US was engaged else where. |
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A lot of you guys already know this but for others who haven’t had time to keep up on drones in Kursk news
https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/09/01/ukraine-war-how-and-why-russia-is-using-almost-indetectable-drones |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By xd341: So putin didn't take the bait and now Ukraine has to pull troops to try to stop the Russian advance? This is a shit show. View Quote This WILL end the same as the last Ukraine PR incursion into Russia proper. (the one that the ukiebros got all creamy about back then) Just like the sun faded on those - It will fade on this one. A handful of retired f16 airframes is not going to change the end result here. (those countries gifting them did not give away anything that was not teetering on being at the end of its expected lifespan) |
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead: If any of those possible conflicts kick off that you mentioned it would severely affect Ukraine negatively. Weapons and munition shipments would dry up if the US was engaged else where. View Quote October 7th got them turned off for months, which was by design. |
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Originally Posted By Aaron56: This WILL end the same as the last Ukraine PR incursion into Russia proper. (the one that the ukiebros got all creamy about back then) Just like the sun faded on those - It will fade on this one. A handful of retired f16 airframes is not going to change the end result here. (those countries gifting them did not give away anything that was not teetering on being at the end of its expected lifespan) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Aaron56: Originally Posted By xd341: So putin didn't take the bait and now Ukraine has to pull troops to try to stop the Russian advance? This is a shit show. This WILL end the same as the last Ukraine PR incursion into Russia proper. (the one that the ukiebros got all creamy about back then) Just like the sun faded on those - It will fade on this one. A handful of retired f16 airframes is not going to change the end result here. (those countries gifting them did not give away anything that was not teetering on being at the end of its expected lifespan) All that hate you keeps you warm doesn't it? |
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead: If any of those possible conflicts kick off that you mentioned it would severely affect Ukraine negatively. Weapons and munition shipments would dry up if the US was engaged else where. View Quote https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2024/09/02/2003823135 |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Not exactly Both Russia and Ukraine are repositioning units from "quieter" areas to either Kursk or Pokrovsk. In this specific example the Ukrainian unit is from southern Ukraine area. There's also some news articles misrepresenting ISW by stating Russia had relocated units from Pokrovsk to Kursk contrary to ISW which stated yesterday Russia MAYBE relocated units. Again there's at least 4 weeks probably 8 weeks for all this to play out. I'm waiting to see if Ukraine has and employs a domestic missile from Kursk for deep strikes given US reluctance to approve long range "deep strikes" inside Russia. There's also according to CNN article about Ukraine's representatives meeting yesterday with the White House that future additional ATACMS may not be available to Ukraine. Anyway, the article is just for reference/ data point View Quote Then the effort in Kurks would have real tactical impact on the war. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Sounds to me like it's a game of high-stakes poker. Putin is gambling that he can afford to deal with the fact that the Ukrainians are running around his country as long as he gets the victory at Pokhrovsk to divert from that. The Ukrainians had hoped that the incursion would divert troops, which it didn't, and now they have to scramble to get reinforcements into Pokhrovsk. Guess their gamble is that they're continuing the incursion to keep the pressure on Putin internally in the hope that something will give Guess we'll have to wait to find out what happens like everyone else. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Ukraine May have developed its own missiles or the U.S. may change its position on matters but the clock is ticking https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/us-holds-firm-ukraine-american-weapons-strike-deep/story?id=113278698 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1275-3310585.jpg https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-long-range-missile-palianytsia-1f0a1eaf560bb2c1fd70ddd56a39968d https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1276-3310592.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1277-3310593.jpg View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Found this interesting article in The Moscow Times (opposition newspaper shut down by Putin in 2017). Putin will most definitely paying a price by the decisions he's making, even if he reaches his Pokhrovsky objective. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/08/30/ukraines-kursk-incursion-has-exposed-russias-hollow-civic-identity-a86198 The biggest threat to Russian will be when the war actually ends. They are currently booming due to massive spending on the wartime effort. Once that bubble pops, all the things that have been waiting to destroy Russia's economy will come home to roost. TANSTAAFL. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Zhukov: Found this interesting article in The Moscow Times (opposition newspaper shut down by Putin in 2017). Putin will most definitely paying a price by the decisions he's making, even if he reaches his Pokhrovsky objective. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/08/30/ukraines-kursk-incursion-has-exposed-russias-hollow-civic-identity-a86198 Ukraine's Kursk Incursion Has Exposed Russia's Hollow Civic Identity In democratic countries, autumn is the start of the political season. In authoritarian countries like Russia, it is a time when society finally starts to feel the effects of all the negative decisions that the government made during the summer, as well as a time in which people pay even less attention to what is going on across the country. Ukraine's Kursk offensive has accelerated these processes, revealed them as clearly as possible and set the context in which a number of trends will start to appear with even greater force and speed. Confusion and strange reactions The most important trend is the fading of Russian civic consciousness to complete absence and, more importantly, the absence of even a regional identity in regions where ethnic Russians comprise the majority. In parts of the country where other nationalities make up the majority or a significant part of the population (primarily the republics of the North Caucasus), on the contrary, regional identity is very strong. Russians' reaction to the Kursk region offensive closely resembles how they reacted to Yevgeny Prigozhin's mutiny a year ago. It is one of complete apathy and shifting the responsibility for solving the problem to the federal authorities and law enforcement. Ironically, this is the public reaction that the Kremlin itself has sought to achieve with all of its actions over the past 25 years and especially the past three years. Its efforts have resulted in the average Russian being completely deprived of civic subjectivity, with any manifestation of it immediately punishable by criminal sentences or being forced out of the country under threat of imprisonment. Any horizontal links, much less institutionalized ones (NGOs, associations, etc.) are under strict control. If an organization deviates from the ideological norm, the mildest reaction established by the regime is to declare it a "foreign agent" with all the numerous, constantly expanding restrictions that accompany this status. So the Kursk operation demonstrated that civic identity is a formality for Russians and that it does not grow stronger in times of crisis. Not even Kursk region residents lined up at military enlistment offices after Ukraine launched its attack on Aug. 6. It would thus be strange to expect that men from the Zabaikalsky region in Siberia, for example, would line up to defend Kursk. Moreover, the Kremlin has once again demonstrated its inability to respond to a serious crisis quickly. Three weeks have already passed since the Kursk incursion began. The territory occupied by Ukrainian forces is expanding, but the Russian army is carrying out the same task: fulfilling the Kremlin's desire to seize more territory in the Donbas. Other people's lands are de facto more important than the safety and suffering of their own population: combat-ready Russian troops are concentrated on the Donetsk front, and the Kremlin is demonstratively not going to use them to drive Ukrainian forces out of Russia. If we translate this into the Russian propaganda discourse, then the abstract "Russians of Donbas" are more important to Putin than the very real Russians of the Kursk region. You can also see Putin's indifference to his citizens and, at the same time, his irresistible urge to meddle in other people's affairs by looking at what he's done since the start of the Kursk operation. He traveled to Azerbaijan to see Ilham Aliyev, toured the North Caucasus, tearfully praised the Chechens ("If you participate, you have already won" would be a great slogan for the TikTok warriors) and received Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Putin's untimely visit to Beslan offered the only indirect reaction to the fact that the Kursk region is increasingly under Ukrainian control: though the anniversary of the terrible terrorist attack was still three weeks away, the Kremlin decided to link those tragic events to the "counter-terrorism regime" in the Kursk region. Of course, one can use political technologists' argument that Putin adheres to the principle that his face should be associated only with good news. But this argument is shattered by the abandonment and bitterness felt by tens of thousands of Kursk residents something that makes the residents of Russia's other border regions think long and hard. 100,000 inexplicable Russians One of the crises that Russian society is already facing and this crisis will flare up again in the fall! is the creation of between 100,000 and 200,000 internally displaced people. In the Russian media, they are ignorantly called "refugees." We saw the same confusion with terminology in Ukraine at the very beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian war in 2014. One could argue, based on the Ukrainian experience: "It's okay, you will figure out how to correctly refer to them, there will be enough time for that." In the short term, displaced Russians will not be able to return to their homes, both because of the fighting and because of the destruction not just by Ukrainian forces that the war is inflicting on their property. The Kremlin is already feeling social pressure, albeit moderate, and obviously does not know what to do with people who have had to leave their homes and livelihoods. The surprisingly ill-conceived proposal to resettle Kursk evacuees in the occupied part of Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia region confirms this further. The countdown for the plateau of stability for Putin's regime started from the moment of Prigozhin's plane crash and the failed Ukrainian counteroffensive of summer 2023. The calculation was to control the overall pace of combat operations: Russia's army was pressing and suffering losses, but advancing in the Donbas. Pure calculation and nothing more: captured territories are exchanged for the lives of soldiers, which, in turn, are bought with petrodollars in the form of payments for signing a contract. In the Kremlin's scheme, Ukraine was supposed to defend itself and slowly cede territory. An essential condition for maintaining this plateau politically was the absence of a new mobilization wave and major operational failures by the Russian military. The events in Kursk have shown everyone the Kremlin most of all that its chosen strategy of replenishing the Russian army through predominantly financial incentives does not allow it to build up sufficient strategic reserves or a manpower advantage over the Ukrainian military. Multilevel recruiting through payments, pardoning criminals, forcing conscripts to sign contracts, granting Russian citizenship to foreign citizens is only enough to replenish heavy daily losses ("meat assaults") and maintain the army's current numbers. The current hybrid mobilization efforts will not be enough. They have already not been enough for the new front in the Kursk region: it must be closed, either at the expense of other sections of the front or by switching to defensive actions and handing the initiative to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, or by forced mobilization, like we saw in the fall of 2022. Added to this is the politically precarious role of conscript soldiers in combat operations. Under Russian law, they can be sent into combat after four months, but the inevitable losses among them will lead to serious negative consequences even among loyal Russians. Conscripts are predominantly 18-20-year-olds, and their deaths will have a strong resonance even in a subjectless Russian society. At the same time, they will confirm that the Russian army has degraded to the point where it cannot fight a full-fledged war with professional soldiers. Once again, combined with operational failure, indifference to the hardships of people living in the border region and a new wave of mass mobilization looming on the horizon, this is yet more evidence that Putin does not keep his word; he has repeatedly promised not to involve conscripts in combat operations. With the onset of fall, we will witness not just the end of the plateau of stability of Putin's regime, but even more fundamental processes. It will be the beginning of the erosion of his image in the public consciousness and the desacralization of his power. A new reality In the system Putin has built, where he is presented as the alpha and omega, this erosion poses the greatest danger to domestic stability. Most importantly, the discontent eating away at this carefully constructed image of the "father of the nation" will crystallize inside Russia and not just among the active part of society. Though they will lack a political or ideological basis, there will be protests. No "beautiful Russia of the future" for you! Rather, they will be movements of relatives of conscripts, internally displaced persons and their relatives, residents of border regions who feel the kinetic consequences of the war and Russians who would be targeted in a second mass mobilization. In other words, we could be talking about millions of Russians. We do not even need to mention the impending economic and financial risks here; the reasons already cited, which directly affect Russians' everyday lives, are sufficient. Their apolitical nature makes them all the more serious and dangerous for the Kremlin because they will engage very broad segments of society. The first manifestations may be sporadic graffiti, musical works or other forms of audiovisual art, jokes and changes in everyday discourse related to the perception of Putin and his ability to lead the country and move it forward. It is not for nothing that the Kremlin is currently paying so much attention to testing all sorts of blocking of social networks and messengers. The main reason for this is not only the desire to shield society from the "corrosive influence of the West" and the Russian opposition but also to rein in unethical domestic Russian media. Unable to prevent the crystallization of discontent, the Kremlin will try to stop their spread. It will try to do what it did in local social media communities in the Kursk region after Ukraine started its offensive erase all negative comments and warn of liability for new posts. One way or another, this will become a new reality that has every chance of multiplying: from the now-famous "Sudzha Native" Telegram channel to all of Russia. The biggest threat to Russian will be when the war actually ends. They are currently booming due to massive spending on the wartime effort. Once that bubble pops, all the things that have been waiting to destroy Russia's economy will come home to roost. TANSTAAFL. I see this in all the street interviews. "I'm not political, I don't pay attention to that stuff, it's not affecting me directly so I don't care." The suppression and oppression that lead to this view being so prevalent also prevent healthy patriotism that is positive. Putin still has a huge amount of public good will from what remains his reputation-defining factor in the domestic audience: "he made Russia strong again, he built Russia back up from the awful 90s era of collapse." The war propaganda is able to continue that narrative, which will stave off major erosion of his popular support. For this, gaining Pokrovsk may just compensate for the loss of Sudzha, given the high levels of state repression and propaganda. This phrase is repeated on their news all the time: "it's war, sometimes there are losses." Losing Sudzha is less of an impact than continued gains in Donetsk IMO, even with 180K refugees fleeing their homes in Kursk oblast. Bottom line, Ukraine still needs more - more men, more artillery, more SEAD/DEAD, more strikes on Russian refineries & power stations, more strikes on targets in Crimea, more strikes on Russian planes & munitions stores, more drones, more EW. All the deficiencies Zaluzhny noted in interviews in November 2022 and 2023 still exist, and Ukraine needs more to be successful. |
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Originally Posted By GoldenMead: If any of those possible conflicts kick off that you mentioned it would severely affect Ukraine negatively. Weapons and munition shipments would dry up if the US was engaged else where. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/09/01/ukraine-evacuates-nearly-22000-people-from-its-sumy-oblast-which-borders-russias-kursk-oblast/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1278-3310606.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1279-3310608.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1282-3310619.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1281-3310616.jpg https://kyivindependent.com/operation-in-kursk-oblast-prevents-russias-attempts-to-occupy-sumy-zelensky-says/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1280-3310610.jpg View Quote 'Evacuated' because they are getting curb stomped... Guess who will be taking that now 'evacuated' dirt??? |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2024/09/02/2003823135 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1293-3310658.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1294-3310659.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1295-3310660.jpg View Quote LOL. If Taiwanese people aren't on board to fight, kill, and die for their own freedom & independence, they're going to end like Hong Kong. |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By Aaron56: This WILL end the same as the last Ukraine PR incursion into Russia proper. (the one that the ukiebros got all creamy about back then) Just like the sun faded on those - It will fade on this one. A handful of retired f16 airframes is not going to change the end result here. (those countries gifting them did not give away anything that was not teetering on being at the end of its expected lifespan) View Quote It needs to get done sooner by killing every Russian that isn't walking home unarmed. We are dragging out a war we helped instigate, we need to end it, peacefully if possible, if not, as quick and violent as required. The junior prom strategy (just the tip) isn't working. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Sounds to me like it's a game of high-stakes poker. Putin is gambling that he can afford to deal with the fact that the Ukrainians are running around his country as long as he gets the victory at Pokhrovsk to divert from that. The Ukrainians had hoped that the incursion would divert troops, which it didn't, and now they have to scramble to get reinforcements into Pokhrovsk. Guess their gamble is that they're continuing the incursion to keep the pressure on Putin internally in the hope that something will give Guess we'll have to wait to find out what happens like everyone else. View Quote “Ukraine took a gamble in Kursk by committing its limited reserves and also pulling various units off the line to participate in the operation," said John Hardie, deputy director of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies' (FDD) Russia Program. "Time will tell whether it was successful." |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By Aaron56: This WILL end the same as the last Ukraine PR incursion into Russia proper. (the one that the ukiebros got all creamy about back then) Just like the sun faded on those - It will fade on this one. A handful of retired f16 airframes is not going to change the end result here. (those countries gifting them did not give away anything that was not teetering on being at the end of its expected lifespan) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Aaron56: Originally Posted By xd341: So putin didn't take the bait and now Ukraine has to pull troops to try to stop the Russian advance? This is a shit show. This WILL end the same as the last Ukraine PR incursion into Russia proper. (the one that the ukiebros got all creamy about back then) Just like the sun faded on those - It will fade on this one. A handful of retired f16 airframes is not going to change the end result here. (those countries gifting them did not give away anything that was not teetering on being at the end of its expected lifespan) You’re Russian, yes? |
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"…unrivaled fervor for killing..."
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: LOL. If Taiwanese people aren't on board to fight, kill, and die for their own freedom & independence, they're going to end like Hong Kong. View Quote https://www.ft.com/content/c4c5f7b3-9506-422b-a892-7b89e90a1631 |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By xd341: This may be a dumb question but do a lot of systems overlap between the conflicts? Patriots maybe but Israel seems to have that covered. View Quote Some overlap such as https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2023/11/ukraines-artillery-supply-declines-shells-go-israel/392130/ |
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Deckard “nobody wants to know the truth, nobody” Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence “she’s hot and all those other things” Tucker Carlson 1/10/2018 “I used to be a liberatarian until Google”https://mobile.twitter.com/Henry_Gunn
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Originally Posted By Aaron56: Running around in what? .00025% of the 'country' and in a particular part that is mostly AG and no where near industrial or strategic in importance. How much dirt in Kursk did the Ukrainians 'gain' today? The Kursk shit has already been stopped. Currently the tiny zit is being popped. https://i.imgur.com/GOwJc4s.jpg If you really got to talk about gambling and being able to 'afford' stuff - How is the current Ukrainian international credit rating as compared to Russia? Even after ALL of those sanctions designed to hurt Russia specifically - WHO exactly has failed and is currently in default here? View Quote If the goal was to get Russia to divert forces and stop their offensive, looks it went miserably and Ukraine was "hoisted by their own petard". |
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Originally Posted By xd341: Yeah you can stick that smiley face. It needs to get done sooner by killing every Russian that isn't walking home unarmed. We are dragging out a war we helped instigate, we need to end it, peacefully if possible, if not, as quick and violent as required. The junior prom strategy (just the tip) isn't working. View Quote To clarify, you aren't the troll, but it clutters the thread when you reply to the troll. |
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: To clarify, you aren't the troll, but it clutters the thread when you reply to the troll. View Quote And we were about to make it a whole page without one of these passive aggressive posts sounding the alarm about "trolls" because he disagreed with something a post said |
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Originally Posted By 56xdx_Z: If the goal was to get Russia to divert forces and stop their offensive, looks it went miserably and Ukraine was "hoisted by their own petard". View Quote Well, it did create a couple of hundred thousand Russian refugees and sowed chaos in parts of Russia. Not a good look for your hero, is it? |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2024/09/02/2003823135 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1293-3310658.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1294-3310659.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1295-3310660.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By GoldenMead: If any of those possible conflicts kick off that you mentioned it would severely affect Ukraine negatively. Weapons and munition shipments would dry up if the US was engaged else where. https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2024/09/02/2003823135 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1293-3310658.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1294-3310659.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1295-3310660.jpg If we had an administration with any brains or balls, we would have 50,000 troops in Taiwan now, and a clear red line for use of nuclear force. Alas the current diversity hire team in charge has zero ability to deduce such a simple, effective and cheap policy that will protect US interests. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Well, it did create a couple of hundred thousand Russian refugees and sowed chaos in parts of Russia. Not a good look for your hero, is it? View Quote The problem is, we've been hearing about how Putin is hanging on by a thread for a couple of years now. Disregarding the fact that the next guy would probably be worse, I'd be happy if he got toppled tomorrow. But I ain't going to bet on it. It sure makes a point about the credibility of folks who can't see reality for what it is, though... |
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Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: A lot of you guys already know this but for others who haven’t had time to keep up on drones in Kursk news https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/09/01/ukraine-war-how-and-why-russia-is-using-almost-indetectable-drones https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1288-3310627.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1287-3310628.jpg View Quote Thing is, onesey-twosie quantities don't mean anything in the war, it's a matter of scale. And, the rooskies don't have sufficient capacity to make them at scale, particularly when getting certain electronic parts is problematic. Also, from what I can tell, Ukraine is a somewhat rugged area with a lot of trees along with some areas that have undulating terrain. That means that a fiber-optic drone is going to be dragging that line across some unforgiving terrain vs a direct LOS helo-launched missile. There's always tradeoffs in any kind of aircraft design. It's not clear to me this is a good one. |
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Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: The problem is, we've been hearing about how Putin is hanging on by a thread for a couple of years now. Disregarding the fact that the next guy would probably be worse, I'd be happy if he got toppled tomorrow. But I ain't going to bet on it. It sure makes a point about the credibility of folks who can't see reality for what it is, though... View Quote Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has ever said Putin is hanging by a thread; quite the opposite. Virtually everyone is well aware of the cult-like status he enjoys in Russian, partially due to the total control he has thanks to his pervasive propaganda. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983 |
Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: The problem is, we've been hearing about how Putin is hanging on by a thread for a couple of years now. Disregarding the fact that the next guy would probably be worse, I'd be happy if he got toppled tomorrow. But I ain't going to bet on it. It sure makes a point about the credibility of folks who can't see reality for what it is, though... View Quote That is an example of a strawman. Nobody is saying Putin is hanging on by a thread. Plenty of people hope for some internal Russian collapse, but nobody can see that they're anywhere close to that. You can probably find some troll somewhere who might throw such a baseless claim out, but an exception does not diminish the rule. |
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So over the past couple of weeks, which side has captured more ground?
Obviously the Russian offensive is on the verge of seizing some significantly important hubs. |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet and European armored vehicles since 2007.
https://t.me/arfcom_ukebros Let's go Bran...Kamala. Thank you Subpar for the membership! |
Originally Posted By Eat_Beef: The problem is, we've been hearing about how Putin is hanging on by a thread for a couple of years now. Disregarding the fact that the next guy would probably be worse, I'd be happy if he got toppled tomorrow. But I ain't going to bet on it. It sure makes a point about the credibility of folks who can't see reality for what it is, though... View Quote Found this example on google, check the comments here from April 2022. Putin had cancer, parkinsons, and was going to be couped literally any day. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Putin-to-have-colon-cancer-surgery-will-be-incapacitated-for-a-while/5-2549315/?page=1 |
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Originally Posted By Lieh-tzu: That is an example of a strawman. Nobody is saying Putin is hanging on by a thread. Plenty of people hope for some internal Russian collapse, but nobody can see that they're anywhere close to that. You can probably find some troll somewhere who might throw such a baseless claim out, but an exception does not diminish the rule. View Quote We did hear how Zelenskyy was going to be deposed, overthrown, and Ukraine defeated last year by the pro Russian crowd in GD. |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet and European armored vehicles since 2007.
https://t.me/arfcom_ukebros Let's go Bran...Kamala. Thank you Subpar for the membership! |
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