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Link Posted: 2/27/2019 3:57:01 AM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:

I thought you said you explained it in tedious detail already... if it’s such common knowledge, I’m sure there are peer reviewed studies out the wazoo on your power plant. I still want to know what a bunch of bronze agers wanted with a power plant anyway, and where the actual power plant went (since there seems to be no actual evidence that one existed in the first place).  I’m sure that’s all in the scholarly work, right?
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Dude, who pissed in your beer? I mean, seriously, there is just no call whatsoever to be such a tool about it. Can we just have a friendly little chat here without making a federal case?

And stop with the elitist bullshit already. If peer reviewed is your fetish, I can show you some truly fucked up shit that nobody here, hopefully including yourself, would agree with. The academia you hold to be so important and apparently inerrant is the same academia that has, through the rigors of science and peer reviewed study, given us a medical community that is currently performing sex changes on little children.

Peer review is nothing but a giant circle jerk anyways. It's just a bunch of sell outs jacking each other so they can charge exorbitant fees for their textbooks. It's a goddamned mafia is what it is.

And for fuck's sake, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything was common knowledge. I said you can look it up on the internet and decide for yourself. Your post above shows you haven't read this entire thread anyways, and especially not my posts. If you had, then you would already know what my position is on those questions you just asked.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 4:00:45 AM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By headstoner:

Those numbers are staggering,  one every 2 minutes sounds pretty crazy.

EDIT:  I just read that they are believed to have been  built in a span of around 85 years.

Do we know they used ramps like in the pic? Maybe they had some other method. The bottom (if they had it perfectly timed and choreographed coming in from all sides) they could probably lay stones at a insane rate. After that I dont know what would be the fastest way, bury the first row and do the same thing again???

Magic, didn't they have staffs with powers like levitation and stuff?  I've seen some movies...
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Have you ever seen the internal ramp theory? Some people think the pyramid was its own ramp, and I think they're also implying that the voids detected lately are left over from the ramp.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 4:53:04 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 8:14:34 AM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By Rossi:

Crazy indeed.   Add that the mainstream guys say they did it with 20,000 people, while other say it was less than 10,000.  That's why many of us are having a hard time buying it.

As far the lifting process.  The one showed in that picture is the commonly accepted by the mainstream folks.  There are some new guys saying that they probably used "water elevators".  I recall seeing an article about it a while ago.  I'll try to find it and post here.

The 85 years is interesting.  Please post the article here so we can take a look.  85 years makes more sense in terms of the project duration.  However, it opens a new can of worms.

1) considering the lifespan of that period, that would mean they started the construction way before the pharaohs were born or finished after they died.

2) it also brings up that because of the required time, they would have built more than one pyramid at a time

Or, as many of us believe here, the Egyptians found the pyramids' "core" (the granite part) already there and remodeled them by adding the casing and using them as tombs.  It's still a great feat but more doable than building the whole thing from scratch.  Unless, of course, they had some very advanced technology that wasn't documented anywhere or was lost.  The Alexandria library' fire by the Romans as a case.

Nonetheless, it's still a big mystery either way.
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Yeah. I'm not sure I trust or believe much of the "mainstream" people, mainstream experts used to tell me an egg was great, then it was the worst thing a person could ever ingest, then it was incredible and edible again...dont even get me started on the potato.lol

I just googled "how old are the great pyramids" and this was the first article which I didnt read anymore than the description for:

http://www.aeraweb.org/projects/how-old-are-the-pyramids/
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 8:22:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: headstoner] [#5]
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Originally Posted By Rossi:

.

1) considering the lifespan of that period, that would mean they started the construction way before the pharaohs were born or finished after they died.
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Well, if dear 'ol granddad started the project the grandson that was in power when it was finished (being the elite king with dilussions of grandeur) could have said to hell with grampy, this big bitch is all for me. Nobody would have argued with the pharaoh would they?

...but again only speculation.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 8:39:51 AM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:

Have you ever seen the internal ramp theory? Some people think the pyramid was its own ramp, and I think they're also implying that the voids detected lately are left over from the ramp.
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It sounds slightly familiar, I may have seen or heard something but it really has never been a focal point of interest for me in any capacity. This thread however has been very interesting and I'm at the very least exercising my reading skills.

A lot of things make sense while sounding absurd at the same time...perspective I think has something to do with that.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 10:52:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane] [#7]
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Dude, who pissed in your beer? I mean, seriously, there is just no call whatsoever to be such a tool about it. Can we just have a friendly little chat here without making a federal case?

And stop with the elitist bullshit already. If peer reviewed is your fetish, I can show you some truly fucked up shit that nobody here, hopefully including yourself, would agree with. The academia you hold to be so important and apparently inerrant is the same academia that has, through the rigors of science and peer reviewed study, given us a medical community that is currently performing sex changes on little children.

Peer review is nothing but a giant circle jerk anyways. It's just a bunch of sell outs jacking each other so they can charge exorbitant fees for their textbooks. It's a goddamned mafia is what it is.

And for fuck's sake, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything was common knowledge. I said you can look it up on the internet and decide for yourself. Your post above shows you haven't read this entire thread anyways, and especially not my posts. If you had, then you would already know what my position is on those questions you just asked.
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:

I thought you said you explained it in tedious detail already... if it’s such common knowledge, I’m sure there are peer reviewed studies out the wazoo on your power plant. I still want to know what a bunch of bronze agers wanted with a power plant anyway, and where the actual power plant went (since there seems to be no actual evidence that one existed in the first place).  I’m sure that’s all in the scholarly work, right?
Dude, who pissed in your beer? I mean, seriously, there is just no call whatsoever to be such a tool about it. Can we just have a friendly little chat here without making a federal case?

And stop with the elitist bullshit already. If peer reviewed is your fetish, I can show you some truly fucked up shit that nobody here, hopefully including yourself, would agree with. The academia you hold to be so important and apparently inerrant is the same academia that has, through the rigors of science and peer reviewed study, given us a medical community that is currently performing sex changes on little children.

Peer review is nothing but a giant circle jerk anyways. It's just a bunch of sell outs jacking each other so they can charge exorbitant fees for their textbooks. It's a goddamned mafia is what it is.

And for fuck's sake, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything was common knowledge. I said you can look it up on the internet and decide for yourself. Your post above shows you haven't read this entire thread anyways, and especially not my posts. If you had, then you would already know what my position is on those questions you just asked.
What are you going on about?

I’m just asking for more information from legit sources... not “mermaids are real”, or “megalodon is alive,” fakumentary quality. Are you saying there isn’t any?  If there is so much “power plant” evidence, surely there is a wealth of high quality research and analysis, right?

You sure seem to get pissy when facts are requested.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 11:45:08 AM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:

What are you going on about?

I’m just asking for more information from legit sources... not “mermaids are real”, or “megalodon is alive,” fakumentary quality. Are you saying there isn’t any?  If there is so much “power plant” evidence, surely there is a wealth of high quality research and analysis, right?

You sure seem to get pissy when facts are requested.
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I'll bet you're a real hoot at parties.

Start by actually reading the thread.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 12:22:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane] [#9]
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
I'll bet you're a real hoot at parties.

Start by actually reading the thread.
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:

What are you going on about?

I’m just asking for more information from legit sources... not “mermaids are real”, or “megalodon is alive,” fakumentary quality. Are you saying there isn’t any?  If there is so much “power plant” evidence, surely there is a wealth of high quality research and analysis, right?

You sure seem to get pissy when facts are requested.
I'll bet you're a real hoot at parties.

Start by actually reading the thread.
Sorry if looking for facts disrupts your alternative history fiction party.

Isn’t it odd that questions never result in answers and requests for facts elicit such a hostile response. That actually says more than any YouTube video in the thead...

BTW I’m a blast at parties... I make a mean batch of margaritas and can totally fuck up a game of trivial pursuit, especially now that I’m not chasing tail any more...
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 12:55:31 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By Loremsk:

Doesn't have to be a full cutting wheel.  Put a sharp tool on a 35ft string from a post, scrape/abrade radius into stone surface, create radius that confuses future peoples, profit!
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*facepalm* I even mentioned something similar earlier in the thread about pendulum saws and hammers. I also wonder if obelisks, being from a solid piece of stone, weren't used as some sort of balance point for ancient cranes as they always seem to appear to be next to and taller than nearby block structures.

A thought I had this morning regarding the megaliths in South America started with wondering about earthquakes, rain and freezing cycles. If a wall were to become sunken in from an earthquake, then the gaps filled with water that then froze, and this occurred repeatedly over millennia, would the stones eventually erode into position? I keep looking at those photos and notice that some stones have sharp corners and others are rounded together.

Speaking of big rocks and ice; how effective would the things that we're seeing taking place at the Great Lakes right now be at moving big rocks? https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/feb/26/strong-winds-cause-ice-tsunami-on-lake-erie-video

Another thought I had related to Pyramid construction and the subterranean chamber and shaft that they say would've made a solid water hammer to create resonance, I'm curious if that in itself could've been used as a hydraulic energy source for "levitating" stones into position. Have valve at top. Open valve. Water rushes into subterranean chamber. Slam valve at bottom shut, inertia from water blows up shaft and water energy is used to lift heavy stones into position.

They say these were dicks, but they look like they could be mushrooms as well:

Link Posted: 2/27/2019 12:59:17 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By a555:

*facepalm* I even mentioned something similar earlier in the thread about pendulum saws and hammers. I also wonder if obelisks, being from a solid piece of stone, weren't used as some sort of balance point for ancient cranes as they always seem to appear to be next to and taller than nearby block structures.

A thought I had this morning regarding the megaliths in South America started with wondering about earthquakes, rain and freezing cycles. If a wall were to become sunken in from an earthquake, then the gaps filled with water that then froze, and this occurred repeatedly over millennia, would the stones eventually erode into position? I keep looking at those photos and notice that some stones have sharp corners and others are rounded together.

Speaking of big rocks and ice; how effective would the things that we're seeing taking place at the Great Lakes right now be at moving big rocks? https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/feb/26/strong-winds-cause-ice-tsunami-on-lake-erie-video

Another thought I had related to Pyramid construction and the subterranean chamber and shaft that they say would've made a solid water hammer to create resonance, I'm curious if that in itself could've been used as a hydraulic energy source for "levitating" stones into position. Have valve at top. Open valve. Water rushes into subterranean chamber. Slam valve at bottom shut, inertia from water blows up shaft and water energy is used to lift heavy stones into position.

They say these were dicks, but they look like they could be mushrooms as well:

https://hiddenincatours.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/p17438-youtube-thumbnail.jpg
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They look like shiva lingas. Definitely dicks. Is that temple in India or southeast Asia somewhere?
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 1:10:55 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:

They look like shiva lingas. Definitely dicks. Is that temple in India or southeast Asia somewhere?
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I wonder if there's a lucrative market for that, I know a guy willing to make shit from stone for the right price. Maybe a online only business, i dont know if the old church ladies would want to purchase from the guy that makes monuments and dildos.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 3:07:48 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By a555:

Snip

They say these were dicks, but they look like they could be mushrooms as well:

https://hiddenincatours.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/p17438-youtube-thumbnail.jpg
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They look circumcised. The jooz did this.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 3:13:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 3:16:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass] [#15]
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 4:10:26 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By a555:
Also evidence that there were copper mines in Michigan that produced far more copper than is believed to have been used in North America. The mine stopped being used at the same time the volcano on Santorini erupted; two theories are that either there was trade with Greece that stopped at that time and/or that glaciers moved in.

This is reaching and I haven't thoroughly read through it, but it was a quick google search result that mentioned copper mining activities. (warning: article also talks about giants, caveat emptor): https://grahamhancock.com/dewhurstr1/

ETA: When researching and trying to separate fact from fiction, I thoroughly believe in not dismissing any theories immediately no matter how far-fetched they seem; this includes theories of giants, et cetera. There were giant bears, cats, pachyderms, lizards, et cetera and it seems plausible that giant primates may have existed as well.
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Originally Posted By a555:
Originally Posted By FOX184:

There is a lot of evidence that there was trade between what is now South America and what is now southern Europe and Africa thousands of years ago.
Also evidence that there were copper mines in Michigan that produced far more copper than is believed to have been used in North America. The mine stopped being used at the same time the volcano on Santorini erupted; two theories are that either there was trade with Greece that stopped at that time and/or that glaciers moved in.

This is reaching and I haven't thoroughly read through it, but it was a quick google search result that mentioned copper mining activities. (warning: article also talks about giants, caveat emptor): https://grahamhancock.com/dewhurstr1/

ETA: When researching and trying to separate fact from fiction, I thoroughly believe in not dismissing any theories immediately no matter how far-fetched they seem; this includes theories of giants, et cetera. There were giant bears, cats, pachyderms, lizards, et cetera and it seems plausible that giant primates may have existed as well.



In addition, during excavation of Mound 72, a ridge-top burial mound south of Monks Mound, archaeologists found the remains of a man in his 40s buried on a bed of more than 20,000 marine-shell disc beads arranged in the shape of a falcon, with the bird’s head appearing beneath and beside the man’s head, and its wings and tail beneath his arms and legs. Archeologists also recovered more than 250 other skeletons from Mound 72. Scholars believe almost 62 percent of these were sacrificial victims, based on signs of ritual execution and method of burial. Although these were the finds revealed to the public after the official 1922 excavation, a previous unofficial dig at the site un-covered hundreds more skeletons, some giant in nature, which have all disappeared from the historical record. Between 2002 and 2010, a major copper workshop was discovered with forges and annealing methods for hardening copper, which included many examples of highly sophisticated repousse copper plates. In an earlier related find at the site by the Smithsonian two 10×11 inch sandstone tablets were discovered which contained inscriptions in “Roman-like capital letters.” These tablets were shipped to the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. “where they are to be held for scientific investigation.”
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 4:36:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 4:41:40 PM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By headstoner:

I wonder if there's a lucrative market for that, I know a guy willing to make shit from stone for the right price. Maybe a online only business, i dont know if the old church ladies would want to purchase from the guy that makes monuments and dildos.
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In India, sure. Although I'm pretty sure you have to be part of the Brahma caste to make them. That's the whole racket over there.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 4:43:18 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By brass:

The large one, biggus dickus, which appears to have run in to a woman scorned, could be a useful pedestal for a couple lever bars, as sort of shown in that PDF by TxRabbitBane above.   That paper showed large blocks with a notch cut into the middle to allow a lever to be moved around from 1st-3rd class levers.   That one may be the miniature optimized model, which could also be a crude pulley on the... shaft.   The lever holder keeps the rope from slipping off.
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That little channel is where they pour the offerings. Usually milk. Yea, Hinduism is gross.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 5:01:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rossi] [#20]
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Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
The ramp theory doesn’t really hold up (well, it does, it’s just highly inefficient), and neither does the “limestone concrete” theory (tests on the composition of the limestone matches the quarry and doesn’t match any kind of concrete). There is a paper written by an undergrad archeologist that mentions both of these subjects. The same guy eventually became a computer science grad student. He has a leverage-based model for moving the smaller stones that  comprise most of the upper part of the pyramid (some folks disagree, so it’s not like it’s a sure thing). If I can find it again I’ll link it.

Found it
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Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Rossi:

Good points.

Just to give an idea of numbers:
The Great Pyramid used an estimated 2,500,000 stones, between granite and limestone.  Most was limestone.
Granite (large up to 80 tons boulders) came from 550 miles away.
Limestone (smaller up to 15 tons boulders) came from 20 miles away.

As waterglass estimated, to complete the pyramid in 20 years they would have to assemble an average of one boulder each 2 minutes or so if working 10 hour days.
(2,500,000 / 20 / 365 / 10 = 34/hour).

So, cut, transport, lift and assemble one each 2 minutes, non-stop.  By the way, the mainstream archaeologists say they cut those stones using bronze and copper saws and tools.  No iron.

One detail that we forget and one article I posted highlights, is that the ramp around the pyramid to allow them to take them up would require twice the volume of the pyramid.  So, imagine almost three pyramids volume of rocks moved to build one pyramid.  

Drawing depicting it.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/36058/PyramidBlocks002_JPG-859374.JPG

Another article posted before is theorizing that the Egyptians actually did not use solid limestone as originally thought.  They mixed a type of concrete using limestone and other aggregates that would make transporting much easier and molding the blocks instead of cutting much faster and efficient.  He elaborated this theory based on his findings that the pyramids' casement was too porous and did not mach the quarries' limestone found around.

Thoughts?
The ramp theory doesn’t really hold up (well, it does, it’s just highly inefficient), and neither does the “limestone concrete” theory (tests on the composition of the limestone matches the quarry and doesn’t match any kind of concrete). There is a paper written by an undergrad archeologist that mentions both of these subjects. The same guy eventually became a computer science grad student. He has a leverage-based model for moving the smaller stones that  comprise most of the upper part of the pyramid (some folks disagree, so it’s not like it’s a sure thing). If I can find it again I’ll link it.

Found it
Interesting paper.  This author goes directly against the other one who claimed that the casement he found was too porous to be from the local quarries.  Amazing how they do not even agree with each other on stuff that is right there in front of them.

His idea about using the cranes might have worked for the small boulders.  The Egyptians could have imported the tree trunks, however I doubt it would have worked to lift a 70 or 80 ton boulder into the air as he imagines.

I dug a bit around wood strength and cedar is not among the top ones.

http://workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/3_Wood_Strength/3_Wood_Strength.htm

Estimating how much the 25 ft length posts he guesses would be able to lift if having a 18in x 18in square section.

8800*(2*18*18^2)/(3*25*12)=114,048lbs - assuming a beam of 1.5 x 1.5 ft and 25 ft length.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexural_strength

Let's get a 70 ton boulder, which is approx. 140,000lbs.

Multiplying by 2, since it's a beam lifting the boulder on one end and the workers pushing down on the other end to lift it as a lever.  Total load on that beam would be 280,000lbs

If they could have found a 2ft x 2ft 25ft beam its load capacity would have been 270,336lbs.

So, it would not lift an 80 ton boulder.  Of course, there are caveats, the Lebanese cedar could be a lot stronger than the American.

Then there's the diagram he drew.

To lift the large load with the shorter arm, that lever's longer arm would have to move a lot more, correct?  Let's say they used 10ft for the shorter arm, the longer arm (15ft) would have to move at least 1.5 times more.  That diagram he posted does not seem to allow for that.

So, his theory might work for the smaller blocks but I doubt it would have worked for the big ones.  So, that thought about lifting them and moving them around also does not seem to work.

Then, think about the speed of one block set every two minutes if they wanted to meet the 20 years deadline.

Add accidents with the beams cracking or workers mistakes, etc.

Impossible?  No.  Improbable?  Most likely.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 5:06:07 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By brass:
The unusually large skeletons were believed to be sacrificial victims?   That seems... Backwards, unless it was a mutiny of sorts.
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Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Originally Posted By a555:
Originally Posted By FOX184:

There is a lot of evidence that there was trade between what is now South America and what is now southern Europe and Africa thousands of years ago.
Also evidence that there were copper mines in Michigan that produced far more copper than is believed to have been used in North America. The mine stopped being used at the same time the volcano on Santorini erupted; two theories are that either there was trade with Greece that stopped at that time and/or that glaciers moved in.

This is reaching and I haven't thoroughly read through it, but it was a quick google search result that mentioned copper mining activities. (warning: article also talks about giants, caveat emptor): https://grahamhancock.com/dewhurstr1/

ETA: When researching and trying to separate fact from fiction, I thoroughly believe in not dismissing any theories immediately no matter how far-fetched they seem; this includes theories of giants, et cetera. There were giant bears, cats, pachyderms, lizards, et cetera and it seems plausible that giant primates may have existed as well.



In addition, during excavation of Mound 72, a ridge-top burial mound south of Monks Mound, archaeologists found the remains of a man in his 40s buried on a bed of more than 20,000 marine-shell disc beads arranged in the shape of a falcon, with the bird’s head appearing beneath and beside the man’s head, and its wings and tail beneath his arms and legs. Archeologists also recovered more than 250 other skeletons from Mound 72. Scholars believe almost 62 percent of these were sacrificial victims, based on signs of ritual execution and method of burial. Although these were the finds revealed to the public after the official 1922 excavation, a previous unofficial dig at the site un-covered hundreds more skeletons, some giant in nature, which have all disappeared from the historical record. Between 2002 and 2010, a major copper workshop was discovered with forges and annealing methods for hardening copper, which included many examples of highly sophisticated repousse copper plates. In an earlier related find at the site by the Smithsonian two 10×11 inch sandstone tablets were discovered which contained inscriptions in “Roman-like capital letters.” These tablets were shipped to the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. “where they are to be held for scientific investigation.”
The unusually large skeletons were believed to be sacrificial victims?   That seems... Backwards, unless it was a mutiny of sorts.
I posted that section from that article mostly because of "stuff disappearing"...  
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 5:08:17 PM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
That little channel is where they pour the offerings. Usually milk. Yea, Hinduism is gross.
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Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:
Originally Posted By brass:

The large one, biggus dickus, which appears to have run in to a woman scorned, could be a useful pedestal for a couple lever bars, as sort of shown in that PDF by TxRabbitBane above.   That paper showed large blocks with a notch cut into the middle to allow a lever to be moved around from 1st-3rd class levers.   That one may be the miniature optimized model, which could also be a crude pulley on the... shaft.   The lever holder keeps the rope from slipping off.
That little channel is where they pour the offerings. Usually milk. Yea, Hinduism is gross.
I believe I saw that temple in one of the movies about the Incas.  Most of those dicks were "castrated" by Jesuits when they established a church nearby.  They were too indecent.  
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 5:15:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 5:31:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6GUNZ] [#24]
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Originally Posted By Rossi:

I believe I saw that temple in one of the movies about the Incas.  Most of those dicks were "castrated" by Jesuits when they established a church nearby.  They were too indecent.  
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Interesting. I didn't know the Incas used shiva lingas. I don't even want to know what they poured on them.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 8:18:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Got this from the SAP thread.

I guess most of is here are potential criminals....    


Go figure: If you’re a birther or a 9/11 denier, chances are you aren’t much fun to be around. Sure, we’ve been saying this about our wack-job uncle for years — but now it’s backed up by science.

People who buy into outrageous conspiracy theories — say, that no human has ever walked on the moon or the ancient pyramids were built by aliens — are more inclined to actively engage in anti-social behavior.

That’s the main finding of a team of psychologists from the UK’s Staffordshire University and the University of Kent, who investigated the wider impact these paranoia-fueled fringe beliefs can have on behavior.

“Our research has shown for the first time the role that conspiracy theories can play in determining an individual’s attitude to everyday crime,” study co-author and Kent professor Karen Douglas said in a statement. “It demonstrates that people subscribing to the view that others have conspired might be more inclined toward unethical actions.”

With contemporary conspiracy theories targeting everything from myths surrounding the Mueller report to the chilling “secret” behind Disney’s “Frozen,” this cultural phenomenon is certainly ripe for clinical exploration.

As such, the new study measured participants’ “belief in general notions of conspiracy” as well as how much they agreed with specific theories (“There was an official campaign by MI6 to assassinate Princess Diana”). Those inclined to believe the theories were “more accepting of everyday crime,” such as demanding a refund for no appropriate reason.

In addition, exposure to conspiracy theories was found to make people more apt to engage in low-level criminal activity. Researchers found that this tendency was “directly linked to an individual’s feeling of a lack of social cohesion or shared values, known as anomie.”

For the non-psycholinguists out there, anomie is defined as “the lack of the usual social or ethical standards in an individual or group.”

Or, as co-author Dan Jolley of Staffordshire put it, “People believing in conspiracy theories are more likely to be accepting of everyday crime, while exposure to theories increases a feeling of anomie, which in turn predicts increased future everyday crime intentions.”
View Quote
https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/believing-conspiracy-theories-might-make-you-a-criminal-study/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Link Posted: 2/27/2019 9:18:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Got this from the SAP thread.

I guess most of is here are potential criminals....    

https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/believing-conspiracy-theories-might-make-you-a-criminal-study/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

View Quote
Well the Russia investigation has certainly proved their point.
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 9:26:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass] [#27]
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 9:38:29 PM EDT
[#28]
It was laminates
Link Posted: 2/27/2019 9:40:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brass:
"Birther" would be hilarious if any odd proof appears.  Though 9/11/01 happened and was a tragedy, there's no doubt planes crashed into buildings, and many people died, members here kept us abreast as bystanders, first responders and worse.

--ETA:   There's more evidence of Jesus and the Bible being correct in many provable aspects than there are about Obama's citizenship.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Got this from the SAP thread.

I guess most of is here are potential criminals....    


Go figure: If you’re a birther or a 9/11 denier, chances are you aren’t much fun to be around. Sure, we’ve been saying this about our wack-job uncle for years — but now it’s backed up by science.

People who buy into outrageous conspiracy theories — say, that no human has ever walked on the moon or the ancient pyramids were built by aliens — are more inclined to actively engage in anti-social behavior.

That’s the main finding of a team of psychologists from the UK’s Staffordshire University and the University of Kent, who investigated the wider impact these paranoia-fueled fringe beliefs can have on behavior.

“Our research has shown for the first time the role that conspiracy theories can play in determining an individual’s attitude to everyday crime,” study co-author and Kent professor Karen Douglas said in a statement. “It demonstrates that people subscribing to the view that others have conspired might be more inclined toward unethical actions.”

With contemporary conspiracy theories targeting everything from myths surrounding the Mueller report to the chilling “secret” behind Disney’s “Frozen,” this cultural phenomenon is certainly ripe for clinical exploration.

As such, the new study measured participants’ “belief in general notions of conspiracy” as well as how much they agreed with specific theories (“There was an official campaign by MI6 to assassinate Princess Diana”). Those inclined to believe the theories were “more accepting of everyday crime,” such as demanding a refund for no appropriate reason.

In addition, exposure to conspiracy theories was found to make people more apt to engage in low-level criminal activity. Researchers found that this tendency was “directly linked to an individual’s feeling of a lack of social cohesion or shared values, known as anomie.”

For the non-psycholinguists out there, anomie is defined as “the lack of the usual social or ethical standards in an individual or group.”

Or, as co-author Dan Jolley of Staffordshire put it, “People believing in conspiracy theories are more likely to be accepting of everyday crime, while exposure to theories increases a feeling of anomie, which in turn predicts increased future everyday crime intentions.”
https://nypost.com/2019/02/26/believing-conspiracy-theories-might-make-you-a-criminal-study/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

"Birther" would be hilarious if any odd proof appears.  Though 9/11/01 happened and was a tragedy, there's no doubt planes crashed into buildings, and many people died, members here kept us abreast as bystanders, first responders and worse.

--ETA:   There's more evidence of Jesus and the Bible being correct in many provable aspects than there are about Obama's citizenship.
But those pyramids....  
Link Posted: 2/28/2019 1:24:54 AM EDT
[#30]
I think all three of the great pyramids are said by the mainstream to have been built over an 85 year period.

Not just the Great pyramid.

The mainstream says the great pyramid was built in 20 to 30 years.
Link Posted: 2/28/2019 3:24:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 2/28/2019 5:22:59 PM EDT
[#32]
My thoughts on the glaciers was that perhaps the action of freezing and expansion of water could've been leveraged to move the stones in south America. Perhaps someone up north could attempt to move or raise a stone by using the expansion of ice to test it.

-- break --

Regarding the "field of dicks", when you're pulling a rope against a cleat, it's more effective to pull at 90 degrees, and there are effective ways of achieving mechanical advantage that don't involve a block and tackle system, though perhaps the dicks had rotating collars on them for such a system.

-- break --

As I've said repeatedly, I think that the Ancient Egyptians had a strong understanding of resonances. Chris Dunn has some somewhat compelling evidence that they leveraged some sort of ultrasonic machining.
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 5:00:06 AM EDT
[#33]
Dam It!! The Lost Stone Pyramid Of Ohio
Natchez Mounds, Mastodons & The Forgotten Work Of Montroville Dickeson
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 4:39:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Apparently there's a beginning of a realization that the ramp system that many believe was used would not work.

One thing about this article is that its author says the Egyptians did not use limestone to build the pyramids when they are covered with it.  That shows how they "agree" on the overall construction.


“This system is composed of a central ramp flanked by two staircases with numerous post holes,” Yannis Gourdon, co-director of the joint mission at Hatnub, told Live Science. “Using a sled which carried a stone block and was attached with ropes to these wooden posts, ancient Egyptians were able to pull up the alabaster blocks out of the quarry on very steep slopes of 20 percent or more.”

It’s difficult to tell the significance of this discovery since the archaeologists haven’t yet published their research on it, says Kara Cooney, a professor of Egyptian art and architecture at the University of California, L.A., who is not involved in this research.
ADVERTISEMENT

“It’s a stretch to take an alabaster quarry and say this is how the pyramids were built, because the pyramids weren’t built out of alabaster,” she says. “The way that the ancient Egyptians cut and moved stone is still very mysterious.”

(more at article)
View Quote
https://www.history.com/news/ancient-egypt-pyramid-ramp-discovery
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 4:50:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Psstt.... human foot steps recorded in stone in Africa from 5.7 million years ago upends theory of evolution.



Newly discovered human-like footprints from Crete may put the established narrative of early human evolution to the test. The footprints are approximately 5.7 million years old and were made at a time when previous research puts our ancestors in Africa - with ape-like feet.
View Quote
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-08-fossil-footprints-theories-human-evolution.html

2) More footprints from 3.6 million years ago.



The Laetoli footprints were most likely made by Australopithecus afarensis, an early human whose fossils were found in the same sediment layer. The entire footprint trail is almost 27 m (88 ft) long and includes impressions of about 70 early human footprints.
View Quote
3.6 million years ago in Laetoli, Tanzania, three early humans walked through wet volcanic ash. When the nearby volcano erupted again, subsequent layers of ash covered and preserved the oldest known footprints of early humans.
View Quote
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 5:08:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 5:12:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rossi] [#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
That's intriguing because I do not recall any of the American tribes building mounds like this as part of their burial process.

Based on the wooden piece's carbon dating it would be around 2000 years old.  What happened to the folks who built it?

This comments in the comments section also drew my attention.


I'm beginning to think the pic was done incorrectly on purpose. The guy who drew it had an agenda. It says the pyramid was 50+ feet tall. The stones he draws are about 10 high for the whole pyramid. The stones would have to be over 10ft and weigh well over 25 tons for the drawing to be correct. It was made of a brick type style (uniform stones from report) quarried stones(approx.50 lbs)from fairly close by and this was a pyramid...as we know them.
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 5:52:19 PM EDT
[#38]
This article reinforces a bit my point about old civilization having became too "green" and a lot of the stuff they built or used simply being absorbed back by nature.

What would be left of this bridge 100 years from now?

The Last Incan Suspension Bridge Is Made Entirely of Grass and Woven by Hand

The Incas never invented the wheel, never figured out the arch, and never discovered iron. But they were masters of fiber. They built ships out of fiber (you can still find reed boats sailing on Lake Titicaca). They made armor out of fiber (pound for pound, it was stronger than the armor worn by the Conquistadors). Their greatest weapon, the sling, was woven from fibers, and was powerful enough to split a steel sword. They even communicated in fiber, developing a language of knotted strings known as quipo, which has yet to be decoded. So when it came to solving a problem like how to get people and goods across the steep gorges of the Andes, it was only natural that they would think about the problem in terms of fiber.

Five centuries ago, the Andes were strung with suspension bridges. By some estimates there were as many as 200 of them, braided from nothing more than twisted mountain grass and other vegetation, with cables sometimes as thick as a human torso. Three hundred years before Europe saw its first suspension bridge, the Incas were spanning longer distances and deeper gorges than anything that the best European engineers, working with stone, were capable of.

Attachment Attached File


(more at link)
View Quote
http://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2013/06/10/the_last_incan_suspension_bridge_is_made_entirely_of_grass_and_woven_by.html
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 5:57:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Balista:
Psstt.... human foot steps recorded in stone in Africa from 5.7 million years ago upends theory of evolution.

https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/csz/news/800/2017/fossilfootpr.jpg

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-08-fossil-footprints-theories-human-evolution.html

2) More footprints from 3.6 million years ago.

https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/poster/8/10/break/images/artworkimages/medium/1/trail-of-laetoli-footprints-john-reader.jpg
View Quote
This is an artist's impression of what these early humans looked like. NSFW.

Click To View Spoiler
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 6:04:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rossi] [#40]
Interesting article that shows how legends can have facts as a background and should not be promptly discounted, at least until really disproved.


Peruvian scientists use DNA to trace origins of Inca emperors

Researchers in Peru believe they have traced the origins of the Incas —the largest pre-Hispanic civilization in the Americas—through the DNA of the modern-day descendants of their emperors.

...

The scientists wanted to verify two common legends about the origin of the Incas.

One attributes them to a couple from around Lake Titicaca, in Peru's Puno region. The other identifies the first Incas as the Ayar brothers from the Pacaritambo mountain in the Cusco region.

...

DNA samples were taken from inhabitants of both places.

"After three years of tracking the genetic fingerprints of the descendants, we confirm that the two legends explaining the origin of the Inca civilization could be related," said Fujita.

Genetic similarities

"They were compared with our genealogical base of more than 3,000 people to reconstruct the genealogical tree of all individuals," said Fujita.

"We finally reduced this base to almost 200 people sharing genetic similarities close to the Inca nobility."

The study released some preliminary results in April, in the review Molecular Genetics and Genomics.

"The conclusion we came to is that the Tahuantinsuyo nobility is descended from two lines, one in the region of Lake Titicaca, the other around the mountain of Pacaritambo in Cusco. That confirms the legends," said Sandoval.

But it also confirms that the two legends were linked.

(more at link)
View Quote
https://phys.org/news/2018-05-peruvian-scientists-dna-inca-emperors.html
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Balista:
Psstt.... human foot steps recorded in stone in Africa from 5.7 million years ago upends theory of evolution.

https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/csz/news/800/2017/fossilfootpr.jpg

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-08-fossil-footprints-theories-human-evolution.html

2) More footprints from 3.6 million years ago.

https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/poster/8/10/break/images/artworkimages/medium/1/trail-of-laetoli-footprints-john-reader.jpg
View Quote
You're not supposed to talk about those!

Move along folks, nothing to see here. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming while we move these to the Smithsonian's basement for "safekeeping."
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 6:18:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rossi:

Interesting paper.  This author goes directly against the other one who claimed that the casement he found was too porous to be from the local quarries.  Amazing how they do not even agree with each other on stuff that is right there in front of them.

His idea about using the cranes might have worked for the small boulders.  The Egyptians could have imported the tree trunks, however I doubt it would have worked to lift a 70 or 80 ton boulder into the air as he imagines.

I dug a bit around wood strength and cedar is not among the top ones.

http://workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/3_Wood_Strength/3_Wood_Strength.htm

Estimating how much the 25 ft length posts he guesses would be able to lift if having a 18in x 18in square section.

8800*(2*18*18^2)/(3*25*12)=114,048lbs - assuming a beam of 1.5 x 1.5 ft and 25 ft length.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexural_strength

Let's get a 70 ton boulder, which is approx. 140,000lbs.

Multiplying by 2, since it's a beam lifting the boulder on one end and the workers pushing down on the other end to lift it as a lever.  Total load on that beam would be 280,000lbs

If they could have found a 2ft x 2ft 25ft beam its load capacity would have been 270,336lbs.

So, it would not lift an 80 ton boulder.  Of course, there are caveats, the Lebanese cedar could be a lot stronger than the American.

Then there's the diagram he drew.

To lift the large load with the shorter arm, that lever's longer arm would have to move a lot more, correct?  Let's say they used 10ft for the shorter arm, the longer arm (15ft) would have to move at least 1.5 times more.  That diagram he posted does not seem to allow for that.

So, his theory might work for the smaller blocks but I doubt it would have worked for the big ones.  So, that thought about lifting them and moving them around also does not seem to work.

Then, think about the speed of one block set every two minutes if they wanted to meet the 20 years deadline.

Add accidents with the beams cracking or workers mistakes, etc.

Impossible?  No.  Improbable?  Most likely.
View Quote
You’re hung up on 70 ton stones. Do not forget that the majority of the stones in the great pyramid are in fact much smaller. There is no reason why hundreds of them (or more) could not be cut and processed at the same time, and similarly no reason why a great quantity of them could not be transported at the same time (and concurrently with other blocks being cut/processed). There is no doubt that the really large stones were logistically more difficult cases, but there are significantly fewer of them, particularly above the fourth tier of the pyramid (probably for that precise reason). Given significant manpower (whether it’s 20,000 or 30,000, or 100,000 as Herodotus says) why couldn't 500 or more blocks be set in a day (with more time allowed for the big boys)? That certainly fits in the accepted timetable. The pyramid is, as we note, pretty big. Why did one single method have to be used, and not various combinations?  Tools, including rockers, have been excavated. You have to love the circular logic that allows you to lower the possible number of workers because you start with the (unverifiable) premise that’s they couldn’t have built the pyramids in the first place (which is demonstrably false, since they are in fact there). This allows the local gymnastics that they were built earlier by some earlier civilization that was somehow more advanced (even with zero evidence that such people left any artifacts, or even existed at all). Then you get to assume fantastical purposes for it (again with no supporting evidence) like “it was a power plant”, which not only makes no sense, but similarly has no facts to back it up.  You get to jump through all these hoops, but you find the simple explanation unfeasible?
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 6:20:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane] [#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 6GUNZ:

You're not supposed to talk about those!

Move along folks, nothing to see here. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming while we move these to the Smithsonian's basement for "safekeeping."
View Quote
LOL the myth of the Smithsonian basement. Ancient tombs are not plausible, but grand conspiracies work...

The Egyptians would sell you their grandmother, but can keep secrets forever...
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 6:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass] [#44]
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 8:26:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:

You’re hung up on 70 ton stones. Do not forget that the majority of the stones in the great pyramid are in fact much smaller. There is no reason why hundreds of them (or more) could not be cut and processed at the same time, and similarly no reason why a great quantity of them could not be transported at the same time (and concurrently with other blocks being cut/processed). There is no doubt that the really large stones were logistically more difficult cases, but there are significantly fewer of them, particularly above the fourth tier of the pyramid (probably for that precise reason). Given significant manpower (whether it’s 20,000 or 30,000, or 100,000 as Herodotus says) why couldn't 500 or more blocks be set in a day (with more time allowed for the big boys)? That certainly fits in the accepted timetable. The pyramid is, as we note, pretty big. Why did one single method have to be used, and not various combinations?  Tools, including rockers, have been excavated. You have to love the circular logic that allows you to lower the possible number of workers because you start with the (unverifiable) premise that’s they couldn’t have built the pyramids in the first place (which is demonstrably false, since they are in fact there). This allows the local gymnastics that they were built earlier by some earlier civilization that was somehow more advanced (even with zero evidence that such people left any artifacts, or even existed at all). Then you get to assume fantastical purposes for it (again with no supporting evidence) like “it was a power plant”, which not only makes no sense, but similarly has no facts to back it up.  You get to jump through all these hoops, but you find the simple explanation unfeasible?
View Quote
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 8:29:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rossi:

That's intriguing because I do not recall any of the American tribes building mounds like this as part of their burial process.

Based on the wooden piece's carbon dating it would be around 2000 years old.  What happened to the folks who built it?

This comments in the comments section also drew my attention.
View Quote
I know the Indians still living in Ohio were asked about the mounds and they answered it wasn't them who created them and they had no clue who did.

I think as the megafauna was wiped out along with all of those cheap, easy calories the population of early Americans (with a lot of free time to build shit) also dropped to reflect that. Might also explain the large human skeletons that were found. Eating your fill at every meal on fatty mastodon and giant sloth meat with plenty of R&R time in between is going to create a much different physique than hiking the forest all day in near starvation mode for a few scraps of lean venison and rabbit to divide up among the tribe.
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 8:51:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Some interesting submerged structures.

The first video's author posted the links with the sources to the images and info he describerd.

The Underwater Ruins Of A Prior Time


This second one is from the Brian Foerster's series about the Incas.  He did not have the budget for a dive but the water is clear enough to show the structures.

Underwater Ruins At Lake Titicaca In Bolivia


P.S.  He's now blatantly capitalizing on the stuff he posts.  Well... he needs to finance his trips and make a living.
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 9:21:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
You’re hung up on 70 ton stones. Do not forget that the majority of the stones in the great pyramid are in fact much smaller. There is no reason why hundreds of them (or more) could not be cut and processed at the same time, and similarly no reason why a great quantity of them could not be transported at the same time (and concurrently with other blocks being cut/processed). There is no doubt that the really large stones were logistically more difficult cases, but there are significantly fewer of them, particularly above the fourth tier of the pyramid (probably for that precise reason). Given significant manpower (whether it’s 20,000 or 30,000, or 100,000 as Herodotus says) why couldn't 500 or more blocks be set in a day (with more time allowed for the big boys)? That certainly fits in the accepted timetable. The pyramid is, as we note, pretty big. Why did one single method have to be used, and not various combinations?  Tools, including rockers, have been excavated. You have to love the circular logic that allows you to lower the possible number of workers because you start with the (unverifiable) premise that’s they couldn’t have built the pyramids in the first place (which is demonstrably false, since they are in fact there). This allows the local gymnastics that they were built earlier by some earlier civilization that was somehow more advanced (even with zero evidence that such people left any artifacts, or even existed at all). Then you get to assume fantastical purposes for it (again with no supporting evidence) like “it was a power plant”, which not only makes no sense, but similarly has no facts to back it up.  You get to jump through all these hoops, but you find the simple explanation unfeasible?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Rossi:

Interesting paper.  This author goes directly against the other one who claimed that the casement he found was too porous to be from the local quarries.  Amazing how they do not even agree with each other on stuff that is right there in front of them.

His idea about using the cranes might have worked for the small boulders.  The Egyptians could have imported the tree trunks, however I doubt it would have worked to lift a 70 or 80 ton boulder into the air as he imagines.

I dug a bit around wood strength and cedar is not among the top ones.

http://workshopcompanion.com/KnowHow/Design/Nature_of_Wood/3_Wood_Strength/3_Wood_Strength.htm

Estimating how much the 25 ft length posts he guesses would be able to lift if having a 18in x 18in square section.

8800*(2*18*18^2)/(3*25*12)=114,048lbs - assuming a beam of 1.5 x 1.5 ft and 25 ft length.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexural_strength

Let's get a 70 ton boulder, which is approx. 140,000lbs.

Multiplying by 2, since it's a beam lifting the boulder on one end and the workers pushing down on the other end to lift it as a lever.  Total load on that beam would be 280,000lbs

If they could have found a 2ft x 2ft 25ft beam its load capacity would have been 270,336lbs.

So, it would not lift an 80 ton boulder.  Of course, there are caveats, the Lebanese cedar could be a lot stronger than the American.

Then there's the diagram he drew.

To lift the large load with the shorter arm, that lever's longer arm would have to move a lot more, correct?  Let's say they used 10ft for the shorter arm, the longer arm (15ft) would have to move at least 1.5 times more.  That diagram he posted does not seem to allow for that.

So, his theory might work for the smaller blocks but I doubt it would have worked for the big ones.  So, that thought about lifting them and moving them around also does not seem to work.

Then, think about the speed of one block set every two minutes if they wanted to meet the 20 years deadline.

Add accidents with the beams cracking or workers mistakes, etc.

Impossible?  No.  Improbable?  Most likely.
You’re hung up on 70 ton stones. Do not forget that the majority of the stones in the great pyramid are in fact much smaller. There is no reason why hundreds of them (or more) could not be cut and processed at the same time, and similarly no reason why a great quantity of them could not be transported at the same time (and concurrently with other blocks being cut/processed). There is no doubt that the really large stones were logistically more difficult cases, but there are significantly fewer of them, particularly above the fourth tier of the pyramid (probably for that precise reason). Given significant manpower (whether it’s 20,000 or 30,000, or 100,000 as Herodotus says) why couldn't 500 or more blocks be set in a day (with more time allowed for the big boys)? That certainly fits in the accepted timetable. The pyramid is, as we note, pretty big. Why did one single method have to be used, and not various combinations?  Tools, including rockers, have been excavated. You have to love the circular logic that allows you to lower the possible number of workers because you start with the (unverifiable) premise that’s they couldn’t have built the pyramids in the first place (which is demonstrably false, since they are in fact there). This allows the local gymnastics that they were built earlier by some earlier civilization that was somehow more advanced (even with zero evidence that such people left any artifacts, or even existed at all). Then you get to assume fantastical purposes for it (again with no supporting evidence) like “it was a power plant”, which not only makes no sense, but similarly has no facts to back it up.  You get to jump through all these hoops, but you find the simple explanation unfeasible?
Again, I am not stating that my theories or thoughts are the correct ones, as the mainstream archaeologists try to do, evemn though, as I showed you even themselves cannot agree on how the pyramids were built.

1) I am mentioning the 70 ton boulders because they are the camel going through the eye of the needle in that article concept.  Its author stated that the Egyptians would have not used ramps because they are not feasible.  Remember that he said that.  Then he came with his crane theory, which included the large boulders and said that the Egyptians could have moved them around to make space as they lifted other boulders and stones.

So, that article negates the use of ramps, since its author agrees that they would require cutting and moving at least twice more rocks than the necessary for a single pyramid.   It's there in the article.

2) I completely agree on the Egyptians using different methods for building the pyramids.  As I already said several times, whoever built those pyramids were very intelligent and some of the methods attributed to them by the mainstream archaeologists are an insult to their engineers.

However, I do not agree they use those cranes as described by the article's author.   Let's imagine they only used the cranes for the smaller boulders.  It's still around 1 every two minutes.  And if, as you propose they spent a lot more time with the large ones (and makes sense) now you are talking about 1 or more per minute.   Think about that using those rudimentary cranes and ropes.  What they would have 10 cranes?  OK, but then there it goers the space needed to set them up and store the boulders until all were lifted to build each level.

3) You mentioned taking a "great quantity".  How many until they becomes as heavy as the granite ones?  Add that now there are several that need to be bundled together so they do not fall from the pile while transported.
Also think about the barges used to transport the blocks across the lake and river.   How many until they require a very deep depth to dock and load and unload the boulders?   Those barges surely weren't the papyrus-type and they had to import cedar and other wood to build them.  How many boats to transport the 500/day boulders across the lake as you suggest?  That paper describing the sailor's annotations said he took at least one day to make the crossing.

4) I am not the one "using circular logic to lower the number of workers".  It's the mainstream archaeologists saying they used 20,000 or less.  They are the ones dismissing the 100,000 Herodotus mentioned (I posted articles showing that).  I am the one questioning their numbers by comparing with the number of workers used to build just a segment of the Chinese wall, using bricks and clay, thus not having the logistics issues the Egyptians would have had.  Keep that in mind.

While I agree the Egyptians could put an army of folks cutting and processing the blocks at the quarries, they still needed to move them at a fast pace.  So far the presented theories do not seem to fit anything that would allow for that speed.

So, again, I am not saying it was impossible.   However, it's unlikely that that author's theory is the correct one.

One day we will get to the correct answer.
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 9:30:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 3/1/2019 9:42:26 PM EDT
[#50]
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Originally Posted By brass:
I can see that local 'dirt' fro the limestone quarry area could be used as filler, except for the interior tunnels, then bec appsed wiht a layer of limestone.

Loose Gravel has an Adipose/resting angle of 50° So if a pile of it was simply poured out, the angle on the edges of the pile to ground are 50° from horizontal/40° from vertical.

If they built the pyramids as a spiral, a chain of people carrying buckets of crushed limestone, then dumping it, while stone masons sat limestone around the edge to contain it at a slightly steeper angle from the extra friction (51° to 53° are the actual numbers for the large pyramids), it would be WAY faster and easier to make a spiral ramp up, as the elevation increased, the stone masons would increase the tunnel's progress, make sure it's angled correctly, etc.  Would make it easy to make a perfectly straight line by looking down tunnel to a light, and keeping it centered with the walls aligned, then using 2-3 rows of limestone around those tunnels to 'lock' it permanently assisted by the weight that will be added atop it.

Casing stones are exact same story as internal tunnels and traps, eye down to keep it level with extra input from people on the ground before next course of gravel is dumped for new limestone placement to keep the Look correct.   One line carrying stone, another bucket brigade gathering loose larger sized gravel to be compacted down during the rest of construction.  This would leave one small area that would need climbing, and only needing to place stones even with the neighbors, then dump the gravel in from top, run around in little circles packing it down (people HAD worked extensively with dirt structures, if history is believed at all, (and if not history, common sense would say they'd noticed certain properties of different 'types of dirt' due to living in it for several hundred years, enough to have time to worry about sacrifices instead of merely survival).  If done that way, the lat bit would be smooth with rope and tackle tug/slides along the blocks already laid, and a bucket brigade of a few dozen people, 2-3 on each course of stone with a rope, to pull the next bucket o gravel up, and put it on the ropes for the guys above it to life higher, repeat.

That said, that's the ONLY way I can picture a ramp being used.   They wouldn't have been wasteful like our current construction, temporary mega structures built to help build something else, then entirely dismantled, Nope, that's just faster for us, not the most direct method.   Building ramps leading up the pyramid would be more of a task than building the pyramids themselves. looking at volume and run size desired, a 15° slope starting at zero leading to the top, say 40 ft wide (conservative) Plus the extra dirt due to the friction angle/adipose angle of whatever they need the rock fromo (half again as much), leads to more than moved for two entire pyramids once adding in the rebuilding of ramps to "point" to different endpoints.

I like this idea as it explains a few things - easy way to fill center of pyramid, most efficient use of limestone blocks in both function and lifetime durability, Ramp doesn't need to be removed later, the Ramp IS the pyramid, and last, but not least:  Moving big buckets of large, dens packing gravel (crushed limestone, anything not rounded by a river) would be far easier, faster, and efficient to carry by hand and using ropes.   The casing blocks could be dragged up the slope resting on 2 'point bearings, the two steps below each stone.   That might explain their very uniform sizes - just long enough to span 2 points of existing courses, yet small enough to fit up the ramp opening remaining, while keeping it light enough to move freely.   Limestone has  Moh's hardness of 3.  Raw copper is also hardness of 3, but can be bumped to 4 or 4.5 simply by work hardening (making a bunch of little dimples in it, causing stretching and bending in amounts small enough to move the metal, but not go past yield strength, these dimples would also hold grains of limestone (calcite), which could easily grind through itself.   Even having a medium heavy copper saw 3-4 ft tall would allow them to quarry a limestone brick out by dropping it in one end, helpers keep it vertical, and 1 or more guys pull on rope attached to blade to abrade the rock.   - Straight edge, consistent thickness due to size of copper 'blade', and many doing htis at same time.  Copper would be enough to get a cut starte,d and the cuttings from it would catch in the work hardened copper and make the abrasion  faster.

If anybody would like to buy me a piece of half hard copper, say.. 8' x 5' and 3/8" thick, I'll happily do the experiment.  

--ETA:  I'd be OK with welding together 16 6" wide, 6 ft long bars of half hard to perform the experiment, for anybody wanting to help in interest of Science.
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Originally Posted By brass:
Originally Posted By Rossi:
Apparently there's a beginning of a realization that the ramp system that many believe was used would not work.

One thing about this article is that its author says the Egyptians did not use limestone to build the pyramids when they are covered with it.  That shows how they "agree" on the overall construction.


“This system is composed of a central ramp flanked by two staircases with numerous post holes,” Yannis Gourdon, co-director of the joint mission at Hatnub, told Live Science. “Using a sled which carried a stone block and was attached with ropes to these wooden posts, ancient Egyptians were able to pull up the alabaster blocks out of the quarry on very steep slopes of 20 percent or more.”

It’s difficult to tell the significance of this discovery since the archaeologists haven’t yet published their research on it, says Kara Cooney, a professor of Egyptian art and architecture at the University of California, L.A., who is not involved in this research.
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“It’s a stretch to take an alabaster quarry and say this is how the pyramids were built, because the pyramids weren’t built out of alabaster,” she says. “The way that the ancient Egyptians cut and moved stone is still very mysterious.”

(more at article)
https://www.history.com/news/ancient-egypt-pyramid-ramp-discovery
I can see that local 'dirt' fro the limestone quarry area could be used as filler, except for the interior tunnels, then bec appsed wiht a layer of limestone.

Loose Gravel has an Adipose/resting angle of 50° So if a pile of it was simply poured out, the angle on the edges of the pile to ground are 50° from horizontal/40° from vertical.

If they built the pyramids as a spiral, a chain of people carrying buckets of crushed limestone, then dumping it, while stone masons sat limestone around the edge to contain it at a slightly steeper angle from the extra friction (51° to 53° are the actual numbers for the large pyramids), it would be WAY faster and easier to make a spiral ramp up, as the elevation increased, the stone masons would increase the tunnel's progress, make sure it's angled correctly, etc.  Would make it easy to make a perfectly straight line by looking down tunnel to a light, and keeping it centered with the walls aligned, then using 2-3 rows of limestone around those tunnels to 'lock' it permanently assisted by the weight that will be added atop it.

Casing stones are exact same story as internal tunnels and traps, eye down to keep it level with extra input from people on the ground before next course of gravel is dumped for new limestone placement to keep the Look correct.   One line carrying stone, another bucket brigade gathering loose larger sized gravel to be compacted down during the rest of construction.  This would leave one small area that would need climbing, and only needing to place stones even with the neighbors, then dump the gravel in from top, run around in little circles packing it down (people HAD worked extensively with dirt structures, if history is believed at all, (and if not history, common sense would say they'd noticed certain properties of different 'types of dirt' due to living in it for several hundred years, enough to have time to worry about sacrifices instead of merely survival).  If done that way, the lat bit would be smooth with rope and tackle tug/slides along the blocks already laid, and a bucket brigade of a few dozen people, 2-3 on each course of stone with a rope, to pull the next bucket o gravel up, and put it on the ropes for the guys above it to life higher, repeat.

That said, that's the ONLY way I can picture a ramp being used.   They wouldn't have been wasteful like our current construction, temporary mega structures built to help build something else, then entirely dismantled, Nope, that's just faster for us, not the most direct method.   Building ramps leading up the pyramid would be more of a task than building the pyramids themselves. looking at volume and run size desired, a 15° slope starting at zero leading to the top, say 40 ft wide (conservative) Plus the extra dirt due to the friction angle/adipose angle of whatever they need the rock fromo (half again as much), leads to more than moved for two entire pyramids once adding in the rebuilding of ramps to "point" to different endpoints.

I like this idea as it explains a few things - easy way to fill center of pyramid, most efficient use of limestone blocks in both function and lifetime durability, Ramp doesn't need to be removed later, the Ramp IS the pyramid, and last, but not least:  Moving big buckets of large, dens packing gravel (crushed limestone, anything not rounded by a river) would be far easier, faster, and efficient to carry by hand and using ropes.   The casing blocks could be dragged up the slope resting on 2 'point bearings, the two steps below each stone.   That might explain their very uniform sizes - just long enough to span 2 points of existing courses, yet small enough to fit up the ramp opening remaining, while keeping it light enough to move freely.   Limestone has  Moh's hardness of 3.  Raw copper is also hardness of 3, but can be bumped to 4 or 4.5 simply by work hardening (making a bunch of little dimples in it, causing stretching and bending in amounts small enough to move the metal, but not go past yield strength, these dimples would also hold grains of limestone (calcite), which could easily grind through itself.   Even having a medium heavy copper saw 3-4 ft tall would allow them to quarry a limestone brick out by dropping it in one end, helpers keep it vertical, and 1 or more guys pull on rope attached to blade to abrade the rock.   - Straight edge, consistent thickness due to size of copper 'blade', and many doing htis at same time.  Copper would be enough to get a cut starte,d and the cuttings from it would catch in the work hardened copper and make the abrasion  faster.

If anybody would like to buy me a piece of half hard copper, say.. 8' x 5' and 3/8" thick, I'll happily do the experiment.  

--ETA:  I'd be OK with welding together 16 6" wide, 6 ft long bars of half hard to perform the experiment, for anybody wanting to help in interest of Science.
That new void recently discovered (but not explored yet) and suggested to be the same size as the great gallery might hold some clues to the mystery.   They might have used some lifting mechanisms attached to the great galery(ies - assuming that the void is really what they think) to help bringing the smaller stones up.

Your idea of using a compacted gravel or a mix between the granite and external pyramid's shell looks good.  However, we do not have any evidence of compacted gravel used there.  We still have that guy who said that the limestone found around the pyramid does not match the nearby quarries' types.   His theory about them molding the blocks seems the most making sense.

I like that possibility because it could indicate that the Egyptians actually molded the blocks in place instead of transporting them.  Much easier to bring the concrete aggregate in buckets or boxes and setting them using templates and casings in place.  As they cure, move to the next level.  Considering their climate, with a good supply of aggregate they might even do one level per week or so and meet the deadline.

That still leaves the massive granite blocks out.  But those I still think they found there and built their pyramids around them.  
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