As everyone already knows, rather  than repair the E Series 1911 TA that I had to send back twice; Smith and Wesson opted, at it's discretion, to replace the pistol with another.

There are several difference between the two which were immediately obvious.

The extractor pin on the new pistol is a spiral roll pin rather than  the solid pin present on the original pistol which should resolve the problem of the pin drifting down into the slide when the gun is fired and jamming and possibly damaging the pistol.

The feed ramp profile is different and extends further down into the frame than that of the original pistol.

The spring schedule is much, much heavier than that of the original pistol, in fact it is virtually impossible for me to lock the slide back when the hammer is down by slingshotting the slide. It now takes a very firm overhand grip to accomplish this and I am quite strong.

With the hammer already raised, it is still difficult to lock back the slide, whereas the old pistol was sprung as weakly as a wet noodle.

The machining of the barrel lugs and the slide  locking area appear, to my eye, to be more precise in the new pistol, as does the barrel hood.


Extractor pin is now a spiral  roll pin rather than a solid pin:




Feed ramp profile, new pistol:









BELOW, Feed ramp profile, old pistol:






OFF TO THE RANGE

Due to time constraints I was only able to run 116 rounds through the pistol this time out.

Ammunition: 100 rounds PMC Bronze 230 grain FmJ and only 16 rounds of Winchester RA45B  230 grain bonded hollowpoint because I didn't want to throw away any more expensive duty ammunition than necessary, I've already gone through quite a lot of it including P 45HST2.


Magazines:  2 8 round ACT OEM and 2 Wilson Combat 47D aftermarket.




RESULTS:


First magazine fired; Round # 8, ACT factory magazine, PMC Bronze FMJ.




Wilson Combat 47D, RA45B, 4th round in magazine, pistol would not return to battery; here's why.




ACT factory magazine, RA45B 5th round in magazine; another malfunction with the carry ammunition.


2 8 round magazines fired with the RA 45B carry ammo, 2 malfunctions out of the 16 rounds fired, 1 with each magazine.



Another malfunction with the 230 grain PMC Bronze FMJ and a factory magazine.



And another:



And that's 116 rounds through the replacement Smith and Wesson E Series 1911 TA except for 1 additional malfunction identical to the last 2, that I have no picture of, for a total of 6 out of 116 rounds of ammunition fired.

4 malfunctions out of 100 rounds of PMC Bronze FMJ range ammo and 2 malfunctions out of 16 rounds of Winchester RA45B bonded.


The pistol broken down for cleaning and lube.








Here's what I have decided to do next.

I have ordered 2 Chip McCormick power mags and an 18.5 lb recoil spring from Midway ( even though the springs on the pistol are already strong as hell and much heavier than those on the original pistol)

I broke down the gun and lubed it well and when the spring and magazines arrive I'm going to take it back to the range for another go.

I'm also going to contact someone at Smith and Wesson while I'm waiting.

Glad they did the right thing. Thanks for the pics.

This thread is disturbing.

I want to know what they are doing wrong now???  I have one of the original 1911's they put out and it has been perfect.  That sucks America.

edit: My next 1911 will definately be one of the new Rugers.  Smith makes a purdy pistol paperweight.

I was hoping with your most recent range report that this thread would die away into the archives with a happy ending. I can't imagine your frustration at this point. I'm so sorry to hear that your new replacement is choking as well. Please keep us updated, as I'm sure you will.

Wilson mags are junk. Have you tried others? I hope you have, but if not, you must do yourself a services and get some Novaks or some Shooting Stars and give it a go.



Sorry to add this, but my Kimbers have never had any sort of issue, and they probably cost much less than yours.  Sometimes when fishing, it is time to cut bait.



Luckily I realized this with my GSR and didn't waste much time with it.  I don't mind hacking or modding a lower cost pistola, but when you really dump some cash for something nice, it can be very disheartening.  Time to cut bait.

Very sorry to read the results of the latest range report.  

I recently purchased the commander style of this pistol, and although I haven't had any problems yet (only about 200 rounds)- this thread will remain in the recesses of my brain every time I use it.

Kinda of an intellectual barrier, since I wanted this new pistol to be my first carry weapon.  Don't know if it will now. I'll have more confidence in it after about 500 more flawless rounds.

Wow, this sucks. I had my heart set on a S&W1911SC for my CCW. It looks ideal on paper but in practice it seems S&W cannot make a reliable 1911. I guess I will either resign myself to the fact that you have to spend $2200+ for a Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk or Brown or start looking at tupperware. shit.



Sorry about the OP luck but glad it was someone elses dime than mine.

Two things:

1 - did you clean/lube the pistol before taking it to the range?

2 - As you've addressed, try some different magazines. After having some problems with my Wilson mags I took them to a local smith - 8 of the 9 had feed lip issues he fixed. As I recall he did the same to my two ACT mags. If you know someone who can loan you some known good mags that would be ideal, and try the next round of testing with WWB 230gr FMJ.

I did clean and lube the pistol before shooting it and I ordered a couple of Chip McCormick Power Mags and a Wolf 18.5 lb recoil spring from Midway.

Whereas the first pistol was sprung as weakly as a wet noodle; this one is very heavily sprung including the mainspring, plunger spring, and the recoil spring.

It feels much better when shooting it than the other one did, I'm certain that the springs are not a problem.


I'm not sure that the type of malfunctions I experienced with the new pistol are magazine related because each of the rounds were all perfectly positioned to go into battery.  

But considering the original purchase price, range time and ammunition I put through it for test purposes as well as a transfer I had to pay for the second pistol;  
I'm willing to go for the additional expense of the new magazines.

I might see if I can pick up a box or 2 of WWB, but I'm not certain that will help me out because a finicky gun that only runs with certain types of hardball ammunition is worthless to me, especially a gun that costs as much as this E Series 1911 TA.

This pistol, while not nearly as bad as the first, which, for various reasons,  I am 100% convinced could never have been made to run, and couldn't go through more than a single magazine before choking;  it's not nearly as bad although it is certainly very disappointing so far.

But I believe that this one can be made to run  satisfactorily if I can get the necessary support from the factory; if the Chip McCormick Power Mags don't resolve the problem.

The good news is that I purchased this pistol last March to celebrate the anniversary of my quadruple heart bypass and although the gun has proven problematic;
I'm  in great health.

First and foremost, that's great news about your health!

Main reason I suggest the mags/ammo is to isolate down the exact issue. When my 1911PD was going to/from S&W I documented all the mag/ammo variables to discourage their techs attributing the issues to those variables. You're right, it's a bitch in the expense dept, and why I've taken to steering clear from "mid-range" 1911s - I bought one Wilson which worked as expected, and snag deals on used pistols expecting to put the money into them getting them right. From the pictures, other than mag issues it could be a breechface, extractor, or link-riding issue. Just keep after S&W, and be thankful they pay shipping both ways!

I was really surprised to see the differences between the first and second pistol - enough to make me wonder if the first one wasn't made so early in production they hadn't worked the bugs out. Also strange that the springs seem different, you'd think they'd have long since worked out their spring rates for 1911s.

Best of luck with this one.

AF- thanks for your time and effort on this very informative thread.

Congrats on the good health.

You certainly don't have to spend $2,200 for a 1911 to have a reliable, accurate pistol. My first 1911 was a used Springfield Mil-Spec I bought for $500. I put 700 rounds through it before selling it to my brother who has put his fair share through it without any problems. My Loaded model has about 1700 through it now without one problem related to the gun, not one. It was $930 out the door with the match barrel and a 4lb trigger. How A-F has managed to get two S&W pistols that suck I don't know? I don't have any experience with S&W 1911's though. Their M&P line of pistols are some of the best I have ever used. One would think that would translate over into all their products. How S&W didn't fire at least 100 rounds out of the replacement pistol to make darn sure it functions is beyond stupid. If it were me I would demand a 100% refund and go with another manufacturer for a 1911. There are plenty of good makers and lots of good pistols out there. A-F, I feel for you bro. I am mad and disappointed for you.

While it's the older cousin of your "E" series, My S&W 1911 has been flawless since day one with anything I have ever put down it barrel.







 

The new E Series is being made in the Houlton Maine plant  on completely new CNC machinery other than that which was used to manufacture your pistol.

It's my guess that the problems I have been experiencing with 2 of the new Smith and Wesson E Series 1911TA pistols are directly related to that fact.

FWIW, I bought my E Series 1911 TA based on the reputation of yours and neither one I have had has lived up to expectations.

So far; neither the original pistol I bought, nor the one Smith and Wesson replaced it with, have run as I believe  they should.

 

Sorry to hear it brother, I've had great luck with all my 1911's so I never experienced the frustration that you and many others describe.

My newest foray was a Range Officer that had to go back due to accuracy issues, and has come back perfect. It never has had any kind of malfunction though with 500 rounds of every kind of wide mouth HP, reloads and FMJ through it.

I still don't opt to carry a 1911 since I've got my Glock 19 for that- or my wife's S&W 3913

Glad to see #2 is working better.
Can we see a breach view of the barrel outside the side?  Looking for good throating here.
And while it's out, use the barrel as a case gauge - all rounds from same box should sit the same way.

Could you do the test with the slide removed. Insert a cartridge under the extractor and notice how it sits there; is it being pushed to the left?

Is the nose of the extractor touching the case on the oblique part of the groove?

How hard is to shake out the cartridge? How easy the cartridge slips under the extractor; remember that case is angled upwards when its starting engaging the extractor (there is oblique groove under the extractor to facilitate this). Can you press out the extractor from inside out with the finger and how much it gives? Extractor should move out (every external extractor does even Glock's)

OP: Have you tried Wilson 47D mags? That's all I use, and I've never had a failure in any of the Colts or one S&W I've owned. I'm not up to date on the latest and greatest in 1911 mag technology, but for a long time the 47D was considered to be the best. Hope this helps.

Yup, I used Wilson 47Ds  and the pistol choked with them as well.

I've got 2 Chip McCormick Power Mags on order from Midway and I should have them on June 30th.

I just tested a NH last week that had many of the problems you are having. It would jam fail to feed on the last round often. once in a while it would do it with a partial mag. I figured out that it was the either the slide stop or the slide stop plunger. the slide stop would partially engage while shooting slowing down the slide. the malfunction could be done on a regular basis.  Its going back to NH now.

Do you have another slide stop to swap out?

Sorry to hear that it's not been a pleasant experience so far...  Hows does the mags that came with it run? I like them better then the 1 Kimber pro mag that I have. Also, don't take offense to this, I haven't seen anyone ask yet... but your not limp wristing it are you?
Also, don't know if it will help but here is a pic of the feed ramp on mine. If you want any others to compare let me know.










 
 

Yes it is.

I'm very sorry to read of these problems with your second pistol America.  I know it's got to be extremely frustrating.

Hopefully, the McCormick Power Mags and some tweaking will do the trick.

Sorry to hear, but I am not surprised. I had a S&W 1911 that was returned and exchanged many times. I had a total of 6 different pistols and finally asked for a refund. I saved the check stub from S&W as a reminder to not purchase from them again. I also had the stainless model that was out of spec. Ranged from slide galling, peening, to jamming like yours with all brands of mags. ACT, Wilson, Mec Gar, Colt, Metal Form, and Tripp Cobra Mags.

1.  You are doing the right thing by not accepting this problem and turning it back on S&W.  Keep up the good work!

2.  You are staying above board, and just reporting the facts, again good on you.

3.  Don't assume that a semi-custom shop (like Les Baer Custom) would necessarily handle the occasional lemon better than S&W has.  There are examples to the contrary.

Good luck and if you have to get your money back, do it, and buy something else.  

Life is too short, sometimes you have to move on.

Very sorry to hear this. Been following this thread from the beginning. All I can say is, I hope you get the problem resolved to your satisfaction. No one should have to go through all this with a new gun purchase. Best of luck.

damn 2 for 2.  Hell out of the 4 1911's I've owned only my Kimber TLE II was as bad as both of your E series.  Though truth be told my SA 1911 loaded had to go back twice as well.  Funny that my Sig and Colt never give me any problems.  I had high hopes for this new S&W, apparently I'll have to wait a bit.

At this point I would give up buying different mags. If it's not working with Wilson 47D's, it probably won't work with anything. I'd have S&W swap it out for another E-Series and hope it runs right.

Forget swapping it. Get your money back and go with a manufacturer and a model that is way past its teething issues. 47D's are some of the best so at least AF will have them for his next pistol.

I've got too much effort, time and money invested into the E Series 1911TA to walk away at this time but if the gun will not run as advertised, I must admit that the time is coming when I will take additional action.

I'm going to give the pistol another chance with the Chip McCormick Power Mags I ordered from Midway and, although unlike the original gun that was sprung like a wet noodle, and I believe this one to be properly sprung throughout;  I'll even swap out the recoil spring on this BRAND NEW pistol with a Wolf 18.5 lb spring.

I paid good money for  an E Series 1911TA pistol which I intended to use in training, competition and self defense and so far both pistols I received have been worthless for any of those purposes.


I paid for approximately 800 rounds of ammunition solely for purposes of testing the pistol and trying to get it to run properly, including range ammo and about 200
rounds of expensive Winchester  RA45B and Federal P45HST2 .    

I paid for 2 Wilson Combat 47D magazines with which the pistol would not run, and I am about to pay for 2 Chip McCormick Power Mags that I hope the pistol will operate properly with.

This is in addition to the 2 Smith and Wesson OEM magazines that I paid for when I purchased the pistol with the expectation that they would work with the gun, and they do not.

I also bought a Wolf recoil spring for a brand new pistol and I'm about to run additional ammunition through the gun purely for the purpose of testing it.

Range time spent while testing both of the pistols did not come free either.

I paid for an additional background check and FFL transfer for the replacement  E Series 1911TA pistol.

I spent substantial amounts of time, effort, and money so far but I am absolutely not emotionally invested in this matter.

I'll have more to say after I try to run the pistol again and we'll see where it goes from there.

Have you let anyone else shoot the gun?  I have a couple guns that have had jamming issues in other people's hands but run 100% in mine.

Make sure you have a good grip on the gun, especially when shooting the hotter hollow point loads, or feeding and ejecting problems will manifest themselves.

On edit- There was a guy on another forum recently that was complaining about how his Ed Brown 1911 wouldn't run.  When somebody suggested that he work on his grip he got all pissy but then acknowledged that he had changed the grips on the gun when the problems started.  He went back to the original grips which gave him a better hold and the problems went away.

I'm already so deep into this Smith and Wesson E Series 1911TA pistol that I am going to try one more time to get it to run as it should.

I just received the 2 Chip McCormick Power Mags I ordered from Midway as well as a Wolf 18.5 lb recoil spring.

Several individuals within Smith and Wesson suggested that I should "shoot the ammunition that the gun was tested with" which was Winchester White Box  FMJ so this afternoon, I reluctantly purchased 100 rounds of that ammunition as well.

One of those individuals said that they also used American Eagle to test the gun, but frankly, I have no interest in chasing down the one type of ammunition the gun will run with.

I also fully expect the pistol to handle duty ammunition such as  230 grain Winchester Ranger Bonded,  RA45B and 230 grain Federal P45HST2 although so far, it has not.

A pistol that will only run WWB full metal jacket is worthless to me.

And the E Series 1911TA is certainly not marketed or sold as a "hardballer" only.

I was also advised not to expect the OEM ACT magazines that I purchased with the pistol to handle hollow point self defense type ammunition and that the gun should run with the Chip McCormick Power Mags.

And that the pistol might not run with PMC Bronze which I, as well as all the guys in my club, regularly  shoot every month in all of our  rifles and pistols.

I will have more to report  after I have another chance to get the gun to the range, hopefully tomorrow.

So far I am sorely disappointed with the replacement E Series 1911 TA pistol I received from Smith and Wesson.



Here's what I'll be stuffing into my range bag:



Since both the black steel S&W OEM ACT magazines and the Wilson Combat 47Ds have already proven unreliable in this E Series 1911 TA pistol; I will be shooting the gun with the 2 Chip McCormick Power Mags I just purchased and hope for the best.

I don't know if I'll be using the Wolf 18.5 lb recoil spring; I believe that unlike the original pistol which was sprung thoughout like a wet noodle,  this one is properly sprung..

OP,

how much money did you spend on that smith???

i know its what you wanted but that is BULLSHIT....spend all that money on a gun and it wont even run

my friend just bought a smith and wesson .22 last week and that POS would not even run with fmj ammo of ANY kind......

he threw that POS in the back of the safe and is going to trade it when he gets time

smith and wesson quality SUCKS ASS

Good luck with the new ammo.  I haven't shot my E series yet but have a stockpile of at least 10 different flavors of .45 ACP to try.  Lots of 1911 folks have to run specific ammo in the guns to be truly reliable.  Hilton Yam whom I assume you have talked with as you referenced him earlier even says not to expect a production 1911 to run well on all ammo.

Jeepers Criminey.



AF, I'm surprised at your cool head. I've had that many failures in my 1911's in the last 3 years, not one range trip.



Especially with it being the replacement to a POS that wouldn't run in the first place.



I speak from experience, not all 1911's are like this. Not even a bunch of them.



I can totally understand your want/need for it to run something other than ball as well. Mine run LSWC, plated hollowpoints, Golden Sabers, Remingtion JHP, Winchester JHP's, and WWB like they were all made for it.



Good luck in getting this straigtened out.

If anything comes from this thread (besides resolution for the OP obviously), I hope it is an understanding from the 1911 worshipping crowd that pistols like this are out there. Once that's establshed, it should be easy to accept that it's a statistical reality that some people will catch more of them than average - and that's why some of us can be pretty vocal.

While most Wilson 47s are great, they shouldn't be judged as so infallible that a pistol having issues with them is a certain indicator of a problbem with the gun itself. As I noted earlier in the thread, I had to have 5 of 6 47's and 3 of 3 ETM's worked over by a smith (feedlip issues) to be 100% in all my 1911s.

I heard of plenty of people having issues with Wilson mags.  They are no doubt great mags, but some pistols just don't work with them.  I do like the CMC's though and I am interested to see how those work for the OP.  Even if they do work, it seems he will be stuck with a finicky pistol.  

I'm sorry to hear of your continuing problems, but this is the exact reason that, after owning 7 or 8 1911's, I finally sold them all.  I got tired of spending countless time, money, ammo and frustration trying to get them to run right, and even the ones that did required a certain brand of ammo or special mags (some of which would work in one gun but not in another).  When I finally gave up and sold the last one I felt like someone had let me out of jail.

The reason that the 1911 is still in production after 100 years is precisely because it isn't difficult to buy one that runs right out of the box. Of course, one must remember that there are dozens of companies manufacturing 1911s now and not all of them do it well. If Para or Auto Ordnance made Glock 17s, they would suck too.





You and I are on opposite ends of this spectrum. With the exception of a NIB Para Ordnance P14.45 back in 1995, every new 1911 that I have purchased has run beautifully from moment one. Even the used 1911s that I have bought that had trouble were easliy repaired and it was the previous owner that had dorked it up.

I've never encountered a 1911 I couldn't get to run, but I stick to brands that don't stray far from the standard specs, or try to reinvent the wheel.   I don't personally know anyone who's had so many bad experiences with 1911s that they've abandoned the platform, but I know it occurs.  

I'm sure most ordinary 1911 owners, when faced with a flaky gun they can't or won't fix, simply sell it and forget it.  These bad 1911s have to end up somewhere.  

There's a Glock 17L that has been making the rounds in my town.  I know at least two guys personally who bought it, couldn't get it running right, and sold it.

DAY 3





What happened to America-first???

Did it finally work?

Did he get mad and thorw it down the driveway?

Or did it work and he's having so much fun shooting it he forgot about us???

Maybe he discovered that he limp wrists?

Saying that this man has limp wrists is a travesty to this thread.  Cease these baseless comments now.

You do realize that you just contradicted yourself don't you?  You told me that it isn't difficult to buy one that runs right out of the box, then explained to me why some don't run right out of the box.

 

Unbunch your underroos.

Patiently awaiting an update.............