Hoping the original poster will come back and update us. Really hope S&W makes this situation right in the end.

Just to fill in some time and bump this at the same time...

I shot the hell out of both my M&P 9's (accurate at 15yds at bowling pins and 40 yds at an 18"x12" dinger plate) and Airweight this holiday weekend.  No hickups at all.

Even shot a couple problem free mags through a Kimber 1911 and asked the owner if he'd ever had problems w/ it.
7 or 8k rounds and zero problems with all factory ammo.  He did have to dial in reloads though...

I was at the range the other day, this guy was showing my his prize Colt 1911.  I asked him if its 100% stock and he said it was (except for the grips).



He gave me a full mag and said "hey go shoot it".



FTE EVERY OTHER ROUND.



This is the consistent experience I have had with the 1911 platform...about 4 of 5 I have tried, even from the top brands like Colt and Kimber...I couldn't get through a full mag without some kind of issue, or if I could, the owner could not.



Its not my technique, its the pistol.



 

I'm going through the same thing with my son's SW1911.  Been to the factory twice now and just got it back yesterday. It was "fixed" exactly like the OP's was and still didn't work. In fact, the "work performed" read exactly like the OP's. Haven't had a chance to take it out yet but I'll report back when we do. My son saved for a long time just to have this happen to him.

That's not the norm.  

What did the owner say when you had a FTE on every other round with his gun? If I had a gun that bad I wouldn't be showing someone else it, let alone have have them shot it....







 

Limp wrist?

Please don't "flatuate" in my thread.

Thank you.

I let this issue sit for a while because I wanted to eliminate any and all of negative bias I might have towards the original E Series 1911TA pistol which was replaced by Smith and Wesson, as well as towards the replacement pistol whose performance was less than impressive at its first outing having malfunctioned 6 times out 116 rounds fired.

I also wanted to take the pistol to the range at least two times before posting a followup report in fairness to the company, as well as to everyone who has expressed interest and  followed this thread; as well as those who may have an interest in purchasing one of these pistols..

The first range test of the new pistol was done with the factory OEM ACT magazines as well as Wilson 47Ds.

Simply put, the pistol did not like them, failing to function 4 times out of 100 rounds of PMC Bronze 230 grain FMJ, and 2 times out of 16 rounds of both Winchester RA45B and Federal P45HST2; both of which are standard pressure duty ammunition.

Since I had already expended several 50 round boxes of expensive hollow point duty ammunition I decided to stop shooting it during that test because having failed once per magazine, I didn't see the point of tossing any more down the rat hole at that time with no hope of success or proving anything at all.

I'd like to point out that I had been advised by two individuals at Smith and Wesson Customer Service, one of them in a supervisory position, that I should only be shooting "ammunition that the gun was tested with": either Winchester White Box or American eagle FMJ.

That got me worried, as well as a little pissed;  because I would not accept a pistol with which I could only shoot those two types of FMJ range ammunition, and if that were the case I would definitely be asking for a refund.

In the meantime, two other individuals with impeccable credentials and whose input I highly respect, advised me to try Chip McCormick Power mags as well as Winchester White Box in lieu of my regular range ammo, 230 grain PMC Bronze.

Once again, I found that somewhat disturbing because, because as do all of my other pistols, a quality pistol will handle a wide variety of decent factory ammunition and while I had plenty of PMC at hand, I had to go out and purchase 100 rounds of WWB.

Keeping in mind that I had already expended over 650 rounds trying to get the original E Series 1911 that had been replaced by Smith and Wesson after an unsuccessful trip back to customer service, to run properly; as well as over 100 rounds on its replacement too; I decided "what the hell", I had already spent substantial time and money trying to get them to run so I might as take advantage of the expertise that was offered me and give it a go.

Last week, with admittedly low expectations, a took the pistol to the range with the CMC Power Mags, 100 rounds of Winchester White Box FMJ, 50 rounds of FMJ PMC Bronze, 50 rounds of Winchester RA45B and 50 rounds of Federal P45HST2.

I also brought to the range, an 18.5 lb Wolf recoil spring which I purchased "just in case" although unlike to original pistol, which was sprung like a limp noodle, I believed that the new one to be properly sprung and as it turned out, it was.




To my surprise, as well as my delight; the pistol ran like a Rolex with any and all of the ammunition I put through it.

250 perfect rounds with the CMC Power Mags and I tried to intentionally limp wrist the gun as well; but no matter how I tried, it would not choke at all.

I shot the snot out of the gun, firing as rapidly as I could pull the trigger; not a single malfunction or stoppage.

I wanted to give the pistol another trial before posting the results here, so I shot it again today using PMC Bronze exclusively, and once again it ran perfectly, this time through 100 rounds of the stuff.

As I had said from the beginning; I would do my best to give an unbiased report on how reliably the replacement E Series 1911 functions and I must say that to this point, I am satisfied.

The original pistol was a dud and was returned to me still unreliable after a return to Smith and Wesson; but true to their reputation for standing behind their product; they replaced the original pistol with one that works well and although that I am less than overjoyed that the gun will not run satisfactorily with the factory magazines, I therefore, remain a satisfied Smith and Wesson customer.

Water under the bridge is just that; after a false start, the company came through for me.

However; there is still one minor issue that Smith and Wesson really needs to address, and that is the issue with the extractor
pin.



As pictured below, the original, returned pistol Serial # 3624 was equipped with a solid extractor pin which drifted and migrated down though the slide towards the frame.




As pictured below, in an attempt to correct that problem, my new E Series 1911TA pistol serial # 71xx is equipped with a tapered roll pin.




However as pictured below, after 350 rounds were fired through the pistol, where is the roll pin; where did it go ????



Here it is!!!!!  It has fallen down into the slide where it definitely shouldn't be;  because it can lock up, or even irreparably damage the pistol..





So as pictured below (sorry for the poor quality pic.); I popped it back up through the slide; I definitely need to effect a permanent fix though, and Smith and Wesson ought to make another change at the factory, meanwhile, it is something for E Series 1911 pistol owners to look out for.




There were quite a few differences between the original turd and the pistol Smith and Wesson replaced it with.

The feed ramps are different, in both quality and profile; far more different than might be seen in these pictures but they give you an idea.

Below; is the feed ramp on the original pistol serial # 3624



And the new feed ramp below.





Bottom line;


* This pistol runs like a champ; but not with the Smith and Wesson OEM factory ACT magazines or Wilson 47Ds although the gun will reliably run FMJ with the Wilsons.

But if I want it to handle both FMJ and hollow point ammunition; the Chip McCormick Power Mags have proven to work well.

* The first time I sent the gun back to Smith and Wesson along with a detailed letter explaining the problems and several pictures; it came back from their customer service IMO, unimproved.

* I wrote a respectful, businesslike,  letter to the president of the company outlining the problems with the original gun, as well as the fact that it had come back to me from customer service and still would not run properly;  and I included 12 photographs that I believed were explanatory.

It took quite a bit of  effort on my part; but in the end, Smith and Wesson did stand behind the product; I am satisfied with the ultimate outcome and that is what is important.

Yay!

Great news.

I hope it continues to be a reliable shooter for you.

S&W is a very fine company.  I had a few issues with an M&P9 and they took care of me.

I'm glad your 1911 is running as it should, it's about time.  

So CMC mags were the key?

Yup.

The entire reliability issue with the E Series 1911TA replacement pistol , aside from minor issue of the drifting extractor pin; was magazine related.

What gave me pause, and added unnecessary confusion to the matter, was the pure B.S. I was handed by the two individuals at S&W customer service, one of whom was a supervisor; to the effect that I should only be shooting WWB FMJ or American Eagle FMJ if I expected the pistol to run reliably because "that is the ammunition we test the pistols with".

I'll try the factory mags again with some cheap FMJ range crap like PMC Bronze,  to see if they are good for even that; but I'm not going to piss away any more $40/box of duty ammunition to test magazines when it is simply cheaper to pick up some more CMC Power Mags when Midway has them on sale for twenty bucks apiece.



And now some gratuitous gun porn:

for the love of...

that's what I get for not putting in quotes what I was responding toward...

CMC Power mags and Tripp  are the only two I use for my 1911's now.  I've discarded all my old Wilson 47s and do not plan on buying any more.  Glad to see you pistol is up and running like it should.

Glad to hear you finally got some traction with this issue.  (BREAKING:  S&W's HQ narrowly avoids burning to the ground)

On the extractor pin:  it doesn't appear that the pin can actually drop down past the frame rail while the slide is on the gun, is this correct?    As long as it's where it's supposed to be when you reassemble it, I don't think it will ever be a problem... unless it somehow works out the top of the slide.  And staking the pin hole from the top would prevent that.

Nope, that extractor pin can definitely work it's  way straight down into the slide rails and lock up and/or damage the pistol as it has done on at least one other pistol that I know of, which was equipped with the original solid pin design.

I'll have to take care of it with a permanent fix.

Won't it be stopped from dropping further by the slide rail?

can u peen it with a punch?  Im not sure what kind of failures it would induce by resting on the rail.  As long as you keep the gun well lubed it shouldn't affect it much.

I'm betting that pin is way harder than the frame and could chew a nice gouge in it if allowed to ride on it for any length of time.

OP

Thats great news

CM mags are GTG
BTW
My gunsmith hates those wilson mags
maybe he knows something??

Your gun may have just needed a break in.  I'd go shoot those other mags again and see what happens.  

And FWIW, my only McCormick powermag crapped out after less than 200rd.  Guess I got a lemon since they seem to be well regarded around here.



The extractor pin thing sucks.  My S&W 1006 is down right now because of a similiar issue.  Not the best design, imo

You just must have the worst luck there is. Glad it working for you now.
Just posting this for the heck of it...




My older cousin of yours that I posted earlier has a solid extractor pin also, and I have at least 5,000 rounds through




this with every brand out there, and a lot of Ranger +P's



Hasn't moved a bit. One thing that I didn't mention is that I have been running a recoil buffer since day one before I even shot this one... Might have some thing to do with it?


 

 

That's your problem.

From Hilton Yam regarding his own gun locking up due to this very same problem.

The pin will lock up the slide to the frame if allowed to float around in it's hole, Its a problem Smith and Wesson has been made aware of and it needs to be fixed via a production change.



"
The initial testing consisted of 150 rounds of Black Hills 230 grain ball, which went well and quite uneventfully. The Black Hills ammunition is of the highest quality, and all rounds fed and fired smoothly. When moving on to some Black Hills 230 grain JHP, the gun inexplicably locked open about 10 rounds into the firing. The slide stop was not engaged, and the slide would not move forward or backward. It was locked up tight and it took me a minute to figure out what happened. The extractor pin had worked loose, and had dropped down out of the slide as it cycled rearward. The pin dropped behind the frame, holding the slide to the rear. It took a bit of work to hold the slide to the rear and push the pin back into the slide, thus allowing the slide to return forward.  "

Now that I think about it, my S&W 3913 has a solid roll pin for it's external extractor...

My M&P .40 fs and c's have the solid roll pin for the extractors. Never had a problem in K's of rounds. It might be a problem with some pistols but I've not noticed it with the M&P's.

OK, I couldn't tell from the photos whether the pin was far enough back to do that.  thanks

CMC Power Mags are my go-to 1911 mags.



Glad your 1911 is running now.

That isn't good. Glad I bought a colt with internal extractor now...and I'm a SW guy.

I just want to thank you wholeheartedly for chronicling this entire fiasco for us in such a complete, unbiased and non-bitter fashion. Not many people would or even could manage that like you have. Your posts were never - even at the lowest, most disappointing times for you - disparaging toward Smith and Wesson or angry in the least. You always presented things in a matter-of-fact way, explained to us the exact details of your shooting sessions and impressions, and took detailed, informative pictures.

Your posts and this thread exemplify perfectly why the gun community is so tight and friendly. I'm happy to be a part of it. Thank you!  

+1

I agree wholeheartedly.

(Very fine post XMM. )

+2

Great thread, especially since I bought one of these just prior to you posting this.

So how does yours run?



 

Herb Belin is the product developer behind the E Series.  Anybody know if he is following this thread?

I don't believe there is much to worry about regarding the issue of the extractor pin drifting, I only mentioned it because I think it's something for owners to look out for.

I had noticed that the original solid pin on my original pistol, which was eventually replaced by the company, was drifting and migrating down into the frame before I read Hilton Yam's article.

S&W has been doing external extractors for decades and their original series 1911 pistols have proven exceptionally reliable with them.

My M&Ps are pushing 20,000 rounds between them and they are of the older solid pin extractor design, rather than the newer spiral roll pin design, and the pins on those pistols haven't dropped down more than the slightest bit.

It should be noted that while the pins in both of the E Series 1911 TA pistols I had were sort of loose and easy to reposition with a punch; the extrator pins on my M&Ps appear to have been installed with some sort of hydraulic ram; they will not budge.

Maybe the pin holes on the E Series guns are too large; I really don't know but IMO, they are too loose; both those with the original solid pin as well as the newer

roll pin.  It would be easy for the factory to stake the roll pin; I don't know why they do not.

IMO, the E Series are beautiful, feature laden pistols, for the money; but again IMO, they have teething issues which might be the result of moving production to Houltion Maine and manufacturing them on brand new CNC machines rather than on the machinery that produced the original S&W 1911 pistols; and then releasing them to the public a bit too soon.

As I said, the E Series 1911 TA serial # UCK 7xxx which the company sent me as a replacement for serial #UCK 3624, is a fine pistol and I am satisfied with it as well as how the company resolved my problems by totally replacing the original gun that neither they nor I could get to work.  

I do think that S&W should have been more careful about resolving all production issues that have seemed to arise with the E Series guns, before putting them on the market.

When I sent my original E Series 1911 TA pistol, serial # UCK 3624,  back to the factory for customer service for the first time; I included a very detailed letter as to the issues with the pistol as well as quite a few detailed photographs illustrating extactly what was going on with the gun.

The second time I had to send it back to S&W I included another dozen detailed photographs along with another detailed letter copies of which went  to both Smith and Wesson Customer Service and, by registered mail, directly to James Debney, President of Smith and Wesson Firearms Division.

I believe that the company definitely knows about the defects present in my original pistol.






I'm beginning to like this pistol a lot.

I've only shot about 300 rounds of WWB with the factory mags, and it's been great.

Don't know if it matters, but mine is a SC model with a 4.25 barrel (I know the OP's is a full size).

today I was about to leva home to cabelas to purchase the smith and wesson 1911 e series but after reading this review i decided to hold and wait for more review about this gun.
I really like the looks of this weapon but I'm not going to spend $1200 and have to deal with all this b.s. I think I,ll get the colt rail gun or the kimber desert warrior.

I bought the rail gun. It runs great but it has the typical colt finishing which is mediocre if finish is your pet peeve.The mechanical fit is quite good for a colt. The frame to slide fit is very nice compared to my old series 80. I did have to tweak the grip safety leaf spring to tighten that up a bit. The grip safety would rattle when I walked with the gun holstered. It's fine now.

If you replace that roll pin with a spring pin it probably won't ever move again.  Spring pins are usually stiffer depending on diameter.  The roll pin looks spiral from the end while a spring pin looks like the letter C.  Most AR15 pins are spring pins.

I'm glad to hear that your SC hasn't given you any problems but, except for some of the internal parts, it is an entirely different pistol than mine.

Totally different slide, barrel, and frame.

I hope you continue to have good luck with it and that it shoots various types of self defense hollow point ammunition for you as well as the WWB FMJ.

Beautiful pistol and great pics. Glad it's finally working right for you! I give you a lot of credit for the way you handled the situation too! You must be a very patient man.

Not really; but I didnt have much of a choice.

I bought the pistol, on a whim, back on March 19th as a present to myself for the anniversary of the quadruple heart bypass I underwent last year; I figured the many problems I had with the original gun weren't worth having a heart attack over.

I learned a few things, one of which is never make a reasonably expensive firearms purchase without doing the necessary research first; when I factor in a second transfer fee, magazines, and the ammunition and range time I paid for,  for what I already have in this E Series 1911 TA pistol just getting one that will run satisfactorily,  I could have gotten myself a Les Baer and less headaches.





 

She really is a beauty. Glad she's working out for you now.

Thanks, I've run 350 rounds of assorted ammunition through the pistol including Federal P45HST2, Winchester RA45B, 230 grain PMC Bronze FMJ and 230 grain WWB FMJ using the  8 round CMC Power Mags and there were no stoppages or malfunctions.

The Wilson Combat 47Ds will feed hardball fairly regularly but not the hollow point ammo and the factory ACT magazines don't run at all reliably.

For the life of me, I don't know why the factory magazines weren't tested along with the replacmement pistol before the gun was shipped to me.

Since the factory suplloed ACTs are of good quality and they have proven to run well in other Smith and Wesson 1911s, I'm not sure that I can properly describe the difficulties I'm having with them and the Wilson 47Ds as well, as "magazine problems"; I believe the problem should be described as a "gun problem" that has been worked  around by using a specific type of magazine, namely the Chip McCormick Power Mags.

So far as the problem with the newly designed extractor pin which is being installed in later production in lieu of the original solid pin; that "fix" doesn't seem to
have improved anything.

My original gun serial #UCK3624 had the original solid pin and it's replacement serial # UCK 7xxxx has the new roll pin and the exact same problem.

I reinstalled the pin with some blue locktite to see if the pin will stay in place rather than continue to drift down into the slide rails as the pistol is fired.

I continue to be satisfied with this pistol as well as with the way Smith and Wesson ultimately resolved the issues with my original gun by replacing it with another one.

IMO and based on  my personal experience with 2 pistols separated by roughly 3500 serial numbers, there might still be additional production changes that need to be made to make things 100% with these pistols.  

I'm liking the one I have now quite a bit;  but it's best to read up before you fork over your money.

I didn't.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=324129

I finally took my railed E series to the range and put roughly 500 rds downrange with 2 different kinds of ball and 4 different JHPs.  It functioned 100% with the exception of 1 FTE and 1 FTF.  They were both with the same magazine using CorBon 230gr +P JHP and after shooting 250+ rds of very dirty UMC bulk ammo.  I used CMC mags and an 18.5 lb recoil spring.  I paid under 1200.  My TLR1 fits very nicely on the pistol.  Not sure if the extra 300+  is worth it for the rail but that seems to be the going rate for a railed 1911.  The pistol was nicely dehorned from the factory and I like the overall fit and finish of the big pieces and I can live with the MIM internals for a pistol at this price point.  In order to get these features without MIM parts, the jump is easily to 2k if not more.  

Good advice about research AF. We have all bought something before doing our research so don't feel bad. I'm certainly guilty. Even when you do all your research sometimes you still get a lemon. I got a G27 that was busted from day one. It went to Glock for an overhaul before it would run 30 rounds without a stove pipe. They made it right.

S&W is a good company, I own many of their products and I like them.  But your situation was unacceptable and, IMO, their handling of it was unacceptable as well.  The gun should run with factory mags, they shouldn't have returned it with mags that won't function in the gun or with a list of 2 types of ammo it will run with, both FMJ.