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USA
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:00:01 PM EST
Gents, looking for some experience here. I am looking at the 20.5 to use out where there are black bears, and on paper it sounds like a great option. Have any of you found it at all unreliable with the higher power high penetration rounds? My only experience with the 20 was a dirty range rental and likely weak ammo, and it was a jamomatic. Are there any issues with this gun? I love my 17.5, and would definitely like to add the 20 but for this use it has to be utterly reliable. Appreciate any insights.
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:03:11 PM EST
[#1]
No issues with my 20.4 with hot hardcast 200 grain Underwood loads, although I haven’t shot more than a few boxes of them. I wouldn’t hesitate at all to trust it in the woods.
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:09:13 PM EST
[#2]
Buffalo Bore or Underwood 200gr hard cast and you'll be fine.
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:21:59 PM EST
[#3]
A lot of guys in Alaska run G20. It’s absolutely reliable enough.
I have a G20.4 for when I was up there. I used Underwood extreme penetrators. They run perfectly. |
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:23:48 PM EST
[#4]
I don’t think you would find a better choice in terms of a pistol
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:29:20 PM EST
[#5]
Never had a problem with mine while i lived there (Gen 4). I shot plenty of Buffalo Bore through it to feel it was fine for my needs.
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USA
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:41:41 PM EST
[#6]
This is all good to hear, appreciate the quick replies.
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Posted: 6/29/2024 8:47:22 PM EST
[#7]
G40 with Underwood hard cast. Works fine in East TN black bears.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 6/29/2024 9:11:54 PM EST
[#8]
There are black and brown bears alike that have been put down with 9mm loads from Underwood and Buffalo Bore.
The G20 and G40 are excellent choices if you want something new. |
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Posted: 6/29/2024 9:19:56 PM EST
[#9]
Here's the deal, you need to test your weapon and make sure it's reliable.
I can't tell you if your G20 Gen 5 will be reliable. My G21 Gen 5 had a defective barrel from the factory. There were burrs in the feedway (AKA entrance to the chamber) that would snag on the rim and jam the cartridge so bad it had to be popped out with a rod from the muzzle. I'd switch to Wolff extra power springs and make sure the feedway is smooth. You may want to polish that area and the feedramp if it's rough. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 1:45:54 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Andrewsky: Here's the deal, you need to test your weapon and make sure it's reliable. I can't tell you if your G20 Gen 5 will be reliable. This is the correct answer. I had a G20.3 that was 100% I have a G20.4 that is 100% I had a G20.5 that would fail to feed at least once per mag. I have a G20.5 that is 100%. It even works with the mags that the previous gen 5 failed with. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 6:19:10 AM EST
[#11]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:14:54 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Curmudgeon762: I don’t think you would find a better choice in terms of a pistol |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:34:24 AM EST
[#13]
Personally I would recommend that you remove the sights and any light/accessories you have in the rail. That way it will go up your arse smoothly when the bear does it.
A handgun is not recommended as a bear protection at all despite some of the stories you read online. The only thing that will stop it effectively is a slug from a shotgun, or a rifle that's at least .308. There are equal number of stories of people dumping .44 magnums into bears and it still has enough life left to attack the person before it goes down. There's a higher chance that you'll just wound the bear and leave it to suffer a miserable long end. I would also try something more proven like bear mace spray that seems to have a better track record in protecting people from an attack. While a gun might sound great and okay, there's a higher chance you'll wound it than humanely kill it. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:59:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: Mach]
[#14]
I have a G20.3 I shoot 180 gr FMJ at 1250 fps, 624 foot pounds and it has been 100% reliable.
While some may scoff, I can shoot twice as much compared to the price of Buffalo Bore Hard cast 220 gr. It isn't going to have the penetration of hard cast, but in the Northeast with only black bear, I am hoping it would be enough. If I ever go into the back country with Brown bears, I will likely get a bunch of BB and carry that after testing the reliability and have it as a backup after the auto 12 gauge with slugs |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 9:03:36 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 19Charlie278: G40 with Underwood hard cast. Works fine in East TN black bears. Unless you're hunting, the G40 is a solution in search of a problem. Standard G20 does just fine and is lighter/less bulky for everyday woods carry. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 9:05:22 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mach: I have a G20.3 I shoot 180 gr FMJ at 1250 fps, 624 foot pounds and it has been 100% reliable. While some may scoff, I can shoot twice as much compared to the price of Buffalo Bore Hard cast 220 gr. It isn't going to have the penetration of hard cast, but in the Northeast with only black bear, I am hoping it would be enough. If I ever go into the back country with Brown bears, I will likely get a bunch of BB and carry that after testing the reliability and have it as a backup after the auto 12 gauge with slugs By BB, I assume you mean M1 Abrams. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 9:51:26 AM EST
[#17]
I carry a 20.4 for grizzlies. To make it reliable with Buffalo Bore and Underwood I had to add a compensator as a way to reduce slide velocity. Without the comp the slide would bottom out so hard the inertia would engage the slide-stop.
It runs 100% now but I basically turned it into a G40. In normal factory configuration it ran normal SD rounds just fine. The hardcast dangerous animal rounds are quite a bit hotter. In black bear country I just carry my 9mm |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:16:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: HeavyMetal]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Personally I would recommend that you remove the sights and any light/accessories you have in the rail. That way it will go up your arse smoothly when the bear does it. A handgun is not recommended as a bear protection at all despite some of the stories you read online. The only thing that will stop it effectively is a slug from a shotgun, or a rifle that's at least .308. There are equal number of stories of people dumping .44 magnums into bears and it still has enough life left to attack the person before it goes down. There's a higher chance that you'll just wound the bear and leave it to suffer a miserable long end. I would also try something more proven like bear mace spray that seems to have a better track record in protecting people from an attack. While a gun might sound great and okay, there's a higher chance you'll wound it than humanely kill it. Oh, fucking bullshit! |
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:40:01 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Personally I would recommend that you remove the sights and any light/accessories you have in the rail. That way it will go up your arse smoothly when the bear does it. A handgun is not recommended as a bear protection at all despite some of the stories you read online. The only thing that will stop it effectively is a slug from a shotgun, or a rifle that's at least .308. There are equal number of stories of people dumping .44 magnums into bears and it still has enough life left to attack the person before it goes down. There's a higher chance that you'll just wound the bear and leave it to suffer a miserable long end. I would also try something more proven like bear mace spray that seems to have a better track record in protecting people from an attack. While a gun might sound great and okay, there's a higher chance you'll wound it than humanely kill it. So you're saying that if given the choice between a 10mm pistol or bear spray in bear country, you'd choose the spray. That's dumb. If a bear is attacking me I really don't care if I wound him or kill him on the spot. I just want him to stop attacking me. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:50:29 AM EST
[#20]
Originally Posted By Rbass: Gents, looking for some experience here. I am looking at the 20.5 to use out where there are black bears, and on paper it sounds like a great option. Have any of you found it at all unreliable with the higher power high penetration rounds? My only experience with the 20 was a dirty range rental and likely weak ammo, and it was a jamomatic. Are there any issues with this gun? I love my 17.5, and would definitely like to add the 20 but for this use it has to be utterly reliable. Appreciate any insights. You could use your 17.5 with the right ammo. https://underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-147gr.-flat-nose-black-cherry-coated-hard-cast-hunting-ammo/ |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:52:50 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Personally I would recommend that you remove the sights and any light/accessories you have in the rail. That way it will go up your arse smoothly when the bear does it. A handgun is not recommended as a bear protection at all despite some of the stories you read online. The only thing that will stop it effectively is a slug from a shotgun, or a rifle that's at least .308. There are equal number of stories of people dumping .44 magnums into bears and it still has enough life left to attack the person before it goes down. There's a higher chance that you'll just wound the bear and leave it to suffer a miserable long end. I would also try something more proven like bear mace spray that seems to have a better track record in protecting people from an attack. While a gun might sound great and okay, there's a higher chance you'll wound it than humanely kill it. This sounds like liberal dribble. Blah blah blah blah blah............. What about two legged predators? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 2:22:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AL25: So you're saying that if given the choice between a 10mm pistol or bear spray in bear country, you'd choose the spray. That's dumb. If a bear is attacking me I really don't care if I wound him or kill him on the spot. I just want him to stop attacking me. One time me and my family were on a trip in Michigan and black bears were known to frequent it. I came from a plane so I couldn’t carry anything but they had shotguns loaded with slugs. I did asked about what they thought of someone wanting to carry a handgun and they thought it was a dumb idea. The bear mace sounds a bit more proven method over a handgun given the data but me personally I would carry a shotgun with slugs if I knew I could encounter bears. Second to that I would carry the bear mace over a pistol. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 2:30:24 PM EST
[#23]
Here’s an interesting article to ready: http://www.bear-hunting.com/2019/8/firearm-vs-bear-spray
Why would a bear hunting magazine tell you not to shoot a bear with a handgun? |
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 3:43:55 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: You could use your 17.5 with the right ammo. https://underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-147gr.-flat-nose-black-cherry-coated-hard-cast-hunting-ammo/ I had thought about that, but decided against it because I don't want the harder wear on my 17 (my current best shooting gun), and a proper 10mm round would just be better at this particular use. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 3:45:00 PM EST
[#25]
THE G20 PROBABLY HAS THE BEST REPUTATION OF ANY 10MM IN HISTIRY
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 3:51:20 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Here’s an interesting article to ready: http://www.bear-hunting.com/2019/8/firearm-vs-bear-spray Why would a bear hunting magazine tell you not to shoot a bear with a handgun? Bear spray is also a part of our defense, as black bears have been spotted roaming in our subdivision at night. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 4:55:53 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rbass: Bear spray is also a part of our defense, as black bears have been spotted roaming in our subdivision at night. That’s good to hear. The only black bear encounter I had was seeing one run from the car in the woods. But as far as a close encounter I did once stumbled on one behind our cabin one night. It didn’t run off and I was able to go back inside but yeah it tore up that trashcan. It really comes down to preference but it appears to me the spray is good enough to use but it doesn’t hurt to have extra protection. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:08:27 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AL25: NOT A POPULAR OPINION BUT I AGREE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT IF A BEAR ATTACKS ME, SCREW HIM AND HUMANITY So you're saying that if given the choice between a 10mm pistol or bear spray in bear country, you'd choose the spray. That's dumb. If a bear is attacking me I really don't care if I wound him or kill him on the spot. I just want him to stop attacking me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AL25: Originally Posted By dalle0001: Personally I would recommend that you remove the sights and any light/accessories you have in the rail. That way it will go up your arse smoothly when the bear does it. A handgun is not recommended as a bear protection at all despite some of the stories you read online. The only thing that will stop it effectively is a slug from a shotgun, or a rifle that's at least .308. There are equal number of stories of people dumping .44 magnums into bears and it still has enough life left to attack the person before it goes down. There's a higher chance that you'll just wound the bear and leave it to suffer a miserable long end. I would also try something more proven like bear mace spray that seems to have a better track record in protecting people from an attack. While a gun might sound great and okay, there's a higher chance you'll wound it than humanely kill it. NOT A POPULAR OPINION BUT I AGREE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT IF A BEAR ATTACKS ME, SCREW HIM AND HUMANITY So you're saying that if given the choice between a 10mm pistol or bear spray in bear country, you'd choose the spray. That's dumb. If a bear is attacking me I really don't care if I wound him or kill him on the spot. I just want him to stop attacking me. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:12:36 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Personally I would recommend that you remove the sights and any light/accessories you have in the rail. That way it will go up your arse smoothly when the bear does it. The fact that you fantasize about a bear commiting sodomy says a lot  |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 2:24:07 PM EST
[#30]
My place is in grizzly country. Most of the locals do not carry bear spray, however the tourists do. There are stories of bear spray not working. An example is the couple near Banff Alberta last year found dead near empty bear spray containers. Pistols are not perfect but I would rather have something that I know works than something blown back in my face or blown sideways by a gust of wind.
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:43:15 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: One time me and my family were on a trip in Michigan and black bears were known to frequent it. I came from a plane so I couldn’t carry anything but they had shotguns loaded with slugs. I did asked about what they thought of someone wanting to carry a handgun and they thought it was a dumb idea. The bear mace sounds a bit more proven method over a handgun given the data but me personally I would carry a shotgun with slugs if I knew I could encounter bears. Second to that I would carry the bear mace over a pistol. Michigan is your bear experience? You're out of your lane. There's been what 3 fatal bear attacks in the entire state? I can assure you for every story you can find of a handgun not working I can find a story of one working. Bear spray, handguns, and rifles have all failed to stop bear attacks. Bear spray, handguns and rifles have all successfully stopped bear attacks. Hell a fishing guide in Alaska put down a Kodiak with a 9mm. A native woman in Canada took a Brown Bear with a .22. Neither are something I'd recommend but to each there own. I live in bear country in Michigan and have lived in Interior Alaska in the past. I assure you here in Michigan I'm far more concerned with a tweaker than a bear and in Alaska a smart man is more concerned with tweakers and moose than bears. Ain't no way in hell I'm lugging around a shotgun every time I go to do something on my property. Black bears are not the threat that Browns are and both tend to be overrated in the man eating department. If you want to carry a shotgun for bear defense by all means go for it but no need to tell the OP that a handgun is not effective, because you're wrong. The absolute best defense against a bear attack is to not get attacked. Short of staying indoors anything has a chance of failing. Check the date stamp on the last two photos, no bears (or humans) were harmed.    
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:54:18 PM EST
[#32]
If you’re using a stock Glock 20 barrel make sure your 220gr bullets will stabilize in that barrel. Mine would not so had to buy an aftermarket barrel to get them to work and not hit the paper sideways.
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Posted: 7/1/2024 6:06:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: Bowhntr6pt]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By metalmelter: Michigan is your bear experience? You're out of your lane. There's been what 3 fatal bear attacks in the entire state? I can assure you for every story you can find of a handgun not working I can find a story of one working. Bear spray, handguns, and rifles have all failed to stop bear attacks. Bear spray, handguns and rifles have all successfully stopped bear attacks. Hell a fishing guide in Alaska put down a Kodiak with a 9mm. A native woman in Canada took a Brown Bear with a .22. Neither are something I'd recommend but to each there own. I live in bear country in Michigan and have lived in Interior Alaska in the past. I assure you here in Michigan I'm far more concerned with a tweaker than a bear and in Alaska a smart man is more concerned with tweakers and moose than bears. Ain't no way in hell I'm lugging around a shotgun every time I go to do something on my property. Black bears are not the threat that Browns are and both tend to be overrated in the man eating department. If you want to carry a shotgun for bear defense by all means go for it but no need to tell the OP that a handgun is not effective, because you're wrong. The absolute best defense against a bear attack is to not get attacked. Short of staying indoors anything has a chance of failing. Check the date stamp on the last two photos, no bears (or humans) were harmed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_2370_JPG-3255502.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_1658_JPG-3255503.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_1659_JPG-3255504.jpg I'm not a bear expert by any means and all we have here in Florida are black bears. This guy hung around my stand for a few months. One morning before sunrise I passed by my camera and grabbed the SD card. When I check the pics on the game cam the bear was at my feeder when I came in. I never heard him leave... the game cam showed the bear and a minute later it shows me walk past the camera. I wear dual PVS-14's now days and it's nice being able to see what's ahead of you. I'd feel comfortable with my G20...   |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 6:26:55 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: I'm not a bear expert by any means and all we have here in Florida are black bears. This guy hung around my stand for a few months. One morning before sunrise I passed by my camera and grabbed the SD card. When I check the pics on the game cam the bear was at my feeder when I came in. I never heard him leave... the game cam showed the bear and a minute later it shows me walk past the camera. I wear dual PVS-14's now days and it's nice being able to see what's ahead of you. I'd feel comfortable with my G20... https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/924/L9ISg3.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/922/SRx4uy.jpg That's a beauty. How high is the bottom of that feeder off the ground? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 7:03:56 PM EST
[#35]
Most belts are big enough to carry bear spray and a handgun.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 7:50:55 PM EST
[#36]
All I have to add, other than my G20-4 has ran flawlessly, is some poor putz left over 100 spent 10mm cases for me out at the range last Saturday.
I was sweating my balls off, bent over for probably 15 minutes greedily scavenging the treasure. Didn’t leave a damn one of them behind. 
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Posted: 7/1/2024 8:03:27 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By metalmelter: That's a beauty. How high is the bottom of that feeder off the ground? I'm 5'7" and I can't quite reach it. |
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Posted: 7/2/2024 4:49:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: FDC]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By metalmelter: The absolute best defense against a bear attack is to not get attacked. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By metalmelter: The absolute best defense against a bear attack is to not get attacked. This is pretty easy to do with black bears as long as you're paying attention. I'm more worried about moose than bears as I've had some annoying moose encounters both here on my place in New Hampshire and when I lived in Alaska. Originally Posted By metalmelter: If you want to carry a shotgun for bear defense by all means go for it but no need to tell the OP that a handgun is not effective, because you're wrong. The big problem that is overlooked when folks advocate for shotguns is people set shotguns down where the pistol is on your body.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/2/2024 4:55:59 AM EST
[#39]
and because, front yard critter pics...
Perfectly comfortable with my G20. From May.  Attached File Attached File |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2024 7:57:02 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By metalmelter: Michigan is your bear experience? You're out of your lane. There's been what 3 fatal bear attacks in the entire state? I can assure you for every story you can find of a handgun not working I can find a story of one working. Bear spray, handguns, and rifles have all failed to stop bear attacks. Bear spray, handguns and rifles have all successfully stopped bear attacks. Hell a fishing guide in Alaska put down a Kodiak with a 9mm. A native woman in Canada took a Brown Bear with a .22. Neither are something I'd recommend but to each there own. I live in bear country in Michigan and have lived in Interior Alaska in the past. I assure you here in Michigan I'm far more concerned with a tweaker than a bear and in Alaska a smart man is more concerned with tweakers and moose than bears. Ain't no way in hell I'm lugging around a shotgun every time I go to do something on my property. Black bears are not the threat that Browns are and both tend to be overrated in the man eating department. If you want to carry a shotgun for bear defense by all means go for it but no need to tell the OP that a handgun is not effective, because you're wrong. The absolute best defense against a bear attack is to not get attacked. Short of staying indoors anything has a chance of failing. Check the date stamp on the last two photos, no bears (or humans) were harmed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_2370_JPG-3255502.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_1658_JPG-3255503.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_1659_JPG-3255504.jpg If your goal is to NOT get attacked, then the bear spray has a higher percentage of people who walk away harm free. Whereas, with a gun, people are more likely to get attacked and hurt by the bear before being able to stop it. So statistically, you're wrong based on the data given. Now granted, I understand that you people would feel comfortable with a gun. However, carrying BOTH might be the most optimal thing but for me, I would feel totally comfortable with a bear spray given the data behind it. Of course there are no guarantees in life, but if either fails, you're really screwed. |
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Posted: 7/2/2024 9:06:37 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: If your goal is to NOT get attacked, then the bear spray has a higher percentage of people who walk away harm free. Whereas, with a gun, people are more likely to get attacked and hurt by the bear before being able to stop it. So statistically, you're wrong based on the data given. Now granted, I understand that you people would feel comfortable with a gun. However, carrying BOTH might be the most optimal thing but for me, I would feel totally comfortable with a bear spray given the data behind it. Of course there are no guarantees in life, but if either fails, you're really screwed. Almost sounds like a troll post. Who on a gun forum states ".....I understand that you people would feel comfortable with a gun...." "You people" all I needed to read......................... |
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USA
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Posted: 7/2/2024 9:17:01 AM EST
[#42]
I would say for defense, g20 is more than enough. Black bears aren't even in the same league as grizzlies. Everything I've read on bear hunting is that black bears and deer are extremely similar in terms of actual size and what it takes to put one down. That, and black bears are super skiddish and only attack in extremely rare cases. I'd probably stick with your 17 unless you're jonsing for a new gun.
I have a 20.3 and really love it. I also got a gp100 in 10mm, and for some reason it really struggles. It's super picky on ammo in that sometimes you absolutely cannot get spent cases to eject out of it. There was a few weeks i was messing with it tryibg to get it to work, then i just put it down, and picked up my 20 and it worked 100% with all the ammo i shoved in it. I'm happy with mine. I can't comment for aure on the gen 5, but I'd look real hard at a 40 if I were buying new. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2024 1:53:41 PM EST
[#43]
The Glock 20 is a good enough gun for black bear. Depending where I am, I carry one in grizzly country, but am more apt to carry a 454 or 44 if I am in the back country.
At stated above black bear attacks are rare. However, once they hit the go button they keep it up until they finish what they start. I am as wary of a bold or aggressive black bear as I am of a grizzly. As for bear spray the .gov types and the enviro weenies push it because of their anti-gun leanings. Ignore the published stats as they are biased in favor of spray. The state put on a bear defense seminar, they heavily pushed spray, not a mention of a handgun. Behind the scenes the guys in the field, will tell you something different. The people that really know seldom carry spray, they carry a gun. On the trail, those carrying spray all tend to fit in a certain category, citiots using walking sticks with bells and bear spray on their belts. |
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Posted: 7/4/2024 5:06:38 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: If your goal is to NOT get attacked, then the bear spray has a higher percentage of people who walk away harm free. Whereas, with a gun, people are more likely to get attacked and hurt by the bear before being able to stop it. So statistically, you're wrong based on the data given. Now granted, I understand that you people would feel comfortable with a gun. However, carrying BOTH might be the most optimal thing but for me, I would feel totally comfortable with a bear spray given the data behind it. Of course there are no guarantees in life, but if either fails, you're really screwed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By metalmelter: Michigan is your bear experience? You're out of your lane. There's been what 3 fatal bear attacks in the entire state? I can assure you for every story you can find of a handgun not working I can find a story of one working. Bear spray, handguns, and rifles have all failed to stop bear attacks. Bear spray, handguns and rifles have all successfully stopped bear attacks. Hell a fishing guide in Alaska put down a Kodiak with a 9mm. A native woman in Canada took a Brown Bear with a .22. Neither are something I'd recommend but to each there own. I live in bear country in Michigan and have lived in Interior Alaska in the past. I assure you here in Michigan I'm far more concerned with a tweaker than a bear and in Alaska a smart man is more concerned with tweakers and moose than bears. Ain't no way in hell I'm lugging around a shotgun every time I go to do something on my property. Black bears are not the threat that Browns are and both tend to be overrated in the man eating department. If you want to carry a shotgun for bear defense by all means go for it but no need to tell the OP that a handgun is not effective, because you're wrong. The absolute best defense against a bear attack is to not get attacked. Short of staying indoors anything has a chance of failing. Check the date stamp on the last two photos, no bears (or humans) were harmed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_2370_JPG-3255502.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_1658_JPG-3255503.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/472009/IMG_1659_JPG-3255504.jpg If your goal is to NOT get attacked, then the bear spray has a higher percentage of people who walk away harm free. Whereas, with a gun, people are more likely to get attacked and hurt by the bear before being able to stop it. So statistically, you're wrong based on the data given. Now granted, I understand that you people would feel comfortable with a gun. However, carrying BOTH might be the most optimal thing but for me, I would feel totally comfortable with a bear spray given the data behind it. Of course there are no guarantees in life, but if either fails, you're really screwed. I hate people citing stats with no data linked. Cite your source so we can see it. |
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Posted: 7/4/2024 8:37:57 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sledhead907: I hate people citing stats with no data linked. Cite your source so we can see it. He did earlier in the thread, it was a magazine article with no sources sited. 😂 |
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Posted: 7/4/2024 10:32:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: NorthPolar]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Personally I would recommend that you remove the sights and any light/accessories you have in the rail. That way it will go up your arse smoothly when the bear does it. A handgun is not recommended as a bear protection at all despite some of the stories you read online. The only thing that will stop it effectively is a slug from a shotgun, or a rifle that's at least .308. There are equal number of stories of people dumping .44 magnums into bears and it still has enough life left to attack the person before it goes down. There's a higher chance that you'll just wound the bear and leave it to suffer a miserable long end. I would also try something more proven like bear mace spray that seems to have a better track record in protecting people from an attack. While a gun might sound great and okay, there's a higher chance you'll wound it than humanely kill it.  The G20 is carried up here in Alaska by a whole lot of folks. I carry a .357 loaded with 200gr HCGC +P loads, but that's simply because I can't afford a G20 MOS right now. Is it the perfect bear defense? No, but the best one is the one you have on you in case a bear/moose/hobo with a hardon and a knife pop up at an inconvenient moment. Wildlife isn't going to wait for you to pull your pants up from behind the bushes and let you get your shotgun. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 7/4/2024 11:14:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: bluemax_1]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: One time me and my family were on a trip in Michigan and black bears were known to frequent it. I came from a plane so I couldn’t carry anything but they had shotguns loaded with slugs. I did asked about what they thought of someone wanting to carry a handgun and they thought it was a dumb idea. The bear mace sounds a bit more proven method over a handgun given the data but me personally I would carry a shotgun with slugs if I knew I could encounter bears. Second to that I would carry the bear mace over a pistol. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By AL25: So you're saying that if given the choice between a 10mm pistol or bear spray in bear country, you'd choose the spray. That's dumb. If a bear is attacking me I really don't care if I wound him or kill him on the spot. I just want him to stop attacking me. One time me and my family were on a trip in Michigan and black bears were known to frequent it. I came from a plane so I couldn’t carry anything but they had shotguns loaded with slugs. I did asked about what they thought of someone wanting to carry a handgun and they thought it was a dumb idea. The bear mace sounds a bit more proven method over a handgun given the data but me personally I would carry a shotgun with slugs if I knew I could encounter bears. Second to that I would carry the bear mace over a pistol. All disproven bullshit. Spray vs firearms against bears |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2024 9:40:57 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By metalmelter: He did earlier in the thread, it was a magazine article with no sources sited. 😂 The article mentioned the study they pulled from. Plus, I rather believe a study, with a grain of salt than people on forum since there's no way to tell if someone is truthful or not. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2024 9:42:26 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryYou say that's been debunked, but get this 90% of the article is about the study they pulled the data from BUT they only wrote a single paragraph about how AmmoLand did some study, with no way to know if they pulled favorable results over the unfavorable ones yet in the study they made it clear where they're pull the data from and in what date range. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2024 9:50:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 9mmstephen: Almost sounds like a troll post. Who on a gun forum states ".....I understand that you people would feel comfortable with a gun...." "You people" all I needed to read......................... Against another individual as a protection, yes I would recommend a firearm. There are plenty of data to support using a firearm against a person is very effective. I carry a firearm against a person since they are the most dangerous compared to an animal attack. However "you people" refer to the people who think walking in a wood with a pistol is going to protect them against from a bear attack. That's silly. Sort of like recommending bringing a sling shot to a gun fight. A firearm might be protecting but it really depends on how well you're able to use it. Using chemical spray, that's proven, is far more effective in the long run. My guess is that if you still get attacked after failing to use a bear spray, then it would mean you'd still get attacked even if you had a firearm because you panicked and deployed the bear spray wrong. Unless you're walking in the woods during a hurricane or blizzard, I don't see how it would fail unless you saw a bear 1000 yards away and started spraying wildly. |
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