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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 6:44:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NN300BLK]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pi20: I wonder which occurs most often: 1. Concealed carrier discharges gun in self defense; Or 2. Concealed carrier has a negligent discharge when holstering weapon or during administrative handling. I bet #2 is FAR more common than #1. Carrying without a round in the chamber significantly reduces risk of #2. We’re all capable of having a negligent discharge, mitigating this risk is as important as being prepared to defend yourself with a firearm. Everyone needs to do their own risk assessment and prepare as they see necessary. I certainly see the logic of both Israeli carry and carrying on a loaded chamber, but wouldn't an external manual safety (when in proper working condition and when used properly and paired with an appropriate holster, correct holstering technique, and following all firearm safety rules) also reduce the likelihood of a negligent discharge? As always, other's experiences may vary, and folks need to ensure that they are being safe and responsible in their own actions. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 7:45:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NN300BLK: I certainly see the logic of both Israeli carry and carrying on a loaded chamber, but wouldn't an external manual safety (when in proper working condition and when used properly and paired with an appropriate holster, correct holstering technique, and following all firearm safety rules) also reduce the likelihood of a negligent discharge? As always, other's experiences may vary, and folks need to ensure that they are being safe and responsible in their own actions. Yes I would agree. I believe the primary function of a safety is to help reduce the likelihood of a negligent discharge. You’ll see many argue, however, that manual safeties make it more difficult to bring the gun into action. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 7:46:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Thank you for the drop of logic and reason in a sea of groupthink delirium. Did you honestly come her for advice, or did you just expect everybody to congratulate you on your brilliant and revolutionary "system"? Being uncomfortable with carrying a loaded gun is normal in the early stages of a gunowners CCW evolution. As most have said, get training, and practice until you eventually get past it and realize all this advice was right. You were just too ignorant and/or arrogant to accept it. I wish you well. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 8:04:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pi20: Yes I would agree. I believe the primary function of a safety is to help reduce the likelihood of a negligent discharge. You’ll see many argue, however, that manual safeties make it more difficult to bring the gun into action. Which comes back to your argument about the probabilities of administrative accidents versus defensive situations. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 8:55:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pi20: I wonder which occurs most often: 1. Concealed carrier discharges gun in self defense; Or 2. Concealed carrier has a negligent discharge when holstering weapon or during administrative handling. I bet #2 is FAR more common than #1. Carrying without a round in the chamber significantly reduces risk of #2. We’re all capable of having a negligent discharge, mitigating this risk is as important as being prepared to defend yourself with a firearm. Everyone needs to do their own risk assessment and prepare as they see necessary. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pi20: I wonder which occurs most often: 1. Concealed carrier discharges gun in self defense; Or 2. Concealed carrier has a negligent discharge when holstering weapon or during administrative handling. I bet #2 is FAR more common than #1. Carrying without a round in the chamber significantly reduces risk of #2. We’re all capable of having a negligent discharge, mitigating this risk is as important as being prepared to defend yourself with a firearm. Everyone needs to do their own risk assessment and prepare as they see necessary. Originally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Thank you for the drop of logic and reason in a sea of groupthink delirium. Yet, I have never heard of a police policy instructing officers to carry their weapons without a round in the chamber. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/30/2024 10:32:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragynn: Look a modern revolver is simply not going to go off unless you pull the trigger, whether it's a transfer bar or other system it doesn't matter, so there's zero point in carrying a revolver with an empty chamber, period. Its a matter of what you know and trust. I know what I know, and I know what I trust, and my system works for me. If youre confident and trusting that a mechanical system wont ever malfunction in an infinite set of possibilities and circumstances, suit yourself. Can a transfer bar ever get stuck and malfunction? |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 10:45:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Josh]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Hey, thanks for the thoughtful and reasoned response, I really appreciate it. You bring up good points and valid opinions, all worthy of serious consideration. In the end, everyone has to figure out what works for them. Your penultimate point stands as absolute truth - whatever method and system you choose to go with, regular practice is paramount. As for your last sentence, I disagree that the problem was solved. I refuse to point a loaded semi at myself or my friends, family, or anyone anytime, even if its in the best holster with the best modern safety. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Originally Posted By Mach: they really don't have ADs if you use a quality holster and keep shit out of it except the gun. Shooting 5 shots out of a revolver is only going to give you time if you don't need more time. Once lethal force is being applied, time is critical, so is moving while shooting. having a crossdraw is a waste of time when everything depends on time, as is relying on the second gun that you have to rack first, good luck if your support arm hand is already injured. Violent crime is swift and relentless. Things that will impede your ability to use that unchambered second handgun. Your support arm, hand, shoulder got sliced open by a knife. You took rounds in your support arm, shoulder, hand. Your gun hand, arm, shoulder is damaged as above and you need to draw and rack the slide holding the gun with your support hand. Moving another person out of the line of fire or away from the threat, you ,may need that support hand for other things that matter. Unless you are well trained and a combat vet, you will be hyped like never before, you may simply forget to rack that slide because it isn't burned into your brain from enough training. Just the cross draw on the revolver is going to take specific training to be able to do that while moving. You are building a house of cards that you will need to rely on in probably the most time critical action you have ever taken, keep it simple. Seriously, get some good training. ETA: this is not a new problem, it may be new to you, but it is not new. Your system creates more problems while trying to solve a problem that was solved a very long time ago by quality modern safeties on firearms, quality holsters, common sense, dressing to carry a weapon, and good training methods. Hey, thanks for the thoughtful and reasoned response, I really appreciate it. You bring up good points and valid opinions, all worthy of serious consideration. In the end, everyone has to figure out what works for them. Your penultimate point stands as absolute truth - whatever method and system you choose to go with, regular practice is paramount. As for your last sentence, I disagree that the problem was solved. I refuse to point a loaded semi at myself or my friends, family, or anyone anytime, even if its in the best holster with the best modern safety. I really don't understand how carrying a properly holstered firearm is pointing at other people. I think you have fundamental misconceptions and probably have never carried or used a firearm. Strongly suggest you get some training and learn how to use a firearm. |
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Posted: 8/30/2024 11:38:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mach]
[#8]
nevermind
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Posted: 8/31/2024 12:13:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Stopped reading on the first page. This is a confidence issue due to a training issue, as in OP needs to get some actual training from qualified individuals, and spend more time at the range and practicing drawing and shooting with an unloaded gun before progressing to a loaded firearm. It's also an area where airsoft makes some sense for training.
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Posted: 8/31/2024 12:19:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TAG_Match]
[#10]
It’s a free country and you are free to carry as many weapons as you desire in any state of non readiness as you are comfortable with. But the industry still provides double action semi autos equipped with decockers for shooters that insist on the safety of carrying a revolver.
Edit: I know a few Serbs and they would be embarrassed. |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 1:35:29 AM EDT
[#11]
OP...
Just in case you overlooked my post on page 2. Would you kindly answer my questions? It would be helpful to know this to consider your system! 1 how old are you. 2 how long have you owned and used handguns? 3 Have you had any formal training? 4 If so how much 5 What certifications did the instructor(s) have? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2024 6:40:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DasRonin: OP... Just in case you overlooked my post on page 2. Would you kindly answer my questions? It would be helpful to know this to consider your system! 1 how old are you. 2 how long have you owned and used handguns? 3 Have you had any formal training? 4 If so how much 5 What certifications did the instructor(s) have? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DasRonin: OP... Just in case you overlooked my post on page 2. Would you kindly answer my questions? It would be helpful to know this to consider your system! 1 how old are you. 2 how long have you owned and used handguns? 3 Have you had any formal training? 4 If so how much 5 What certifications did the instructor(s) have? Ive used guns since the 80's, owned since the 90's and I have four years of training. Originally Posted By Josh: I really don't understand how carrying a properly holstered firearm is pointing at other people. Which way is your holster pointing when you sit, what about a kid walking or standing by you, it doesnt take a wild imagination to figure this out. |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 7:44:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Which way is your holster pointing when you sit, what about a kid walking or standing by you, it doesnt take a wild imagination to figure this out. I carry vertical at one o'clock. As long as I'm not standing on the kid, he'll be ok  Even when I'm sitting, it's still not pointing it anyone else. It may be pointing at my leg at times, but I'm a grown up and I'm willing to accept the risks. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2024 8:10:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CommanderPikeBishop]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DavidY: I carry vertical at one o'clock. As long as I'm not standing on the kid, he'll be ok Even when I'm sitting, it's still not pointing it anyone else. It may be pointing at my leg at times, but I'm a grown up and I'm willing to accept the risks. Everyone has to choose their level of acceptable risk. Yours is too high for me, but thats only my call. What about horizontal holsters, vertical and canted hip carry, small of back and so on. I carry my G30 canted forward at 3 o'clock, granted I dont bend over near as much as some of the posters on this thread but its still a nonzero chance risk. |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 10:29:10 AM EDT
[#15]
I'm not going to insult you, but I'll reiterate that you really need to get more professional training (from good trainers who will take the time to actually work with you and not put you down, insult you or anything) and spend more time with your guns if you're that uncomfortable with them. I occasionally still carry a Sig P226 in a Galco Miami Classic (horizontal carry) and don't think twice about it, the gun isn't going to go off by itself and I don't fidget with them. I'd say ditch the Glock and go with a gun with a manual safety, say a M&P if you like striker fired guns, but given a revolver bothers you I don't know what to tell you. Swiping a properly designed safety off on the draw becomes instinctual after enough practice and does not slow you down in any way.
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Posted: 8/31/2024 10:55:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 18B30: on this topic, we shall agree to disagree. If you are this uncomfortable with carrying a firearm with live rounds chambered, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a firearm in general. There are several other options, such as the taser or pepper gas that may fill your SD needs. 18Z50….. This |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2024 11:03:46 AM EDT
[#17]
I have to admit I'm impressed the thread is still up. A tier trolling 🤣
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Posted: 8/31/2024 11:07:45 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 8/31/2024 12:43:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Ive used guns since the 80's, owned since the 90's and I have four years of training. Which way is your holster pointing when you sit, what about a kid walking or standing by you, it doesnt take a wild imagination to figure this out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Originally Posted By DasRonin: OP... Just in case you overlooked my post on page 2. Would you kindly answer my questions? It would be helpful to know this to consider your system! 1 how old are you. 2 how long have you owned and used handguns? 3 Have you had any formal training? 4 If so how much 5 What certifications did the instructor(s) have? Ive used guns since the 80's, owned since the 90's and I have four years of training. Originally Posted By Josh: I really don't understand how carrying a properly holstered firearm is pointing at other people. Which way is your holster pointing when you sit, what about a kid walking or standing by you, it doesnt take a wild imagination to figure this out. At the ground. Where else would it point? |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 2:20:01 PM EDT
[#20]
To me, the OP's method is just that, a method. It isn't a system.
That being said, if you worry about the astronomically small chance that you might have a mechanical problem, you need to do more research on the likelihood of such an occurrence. If you worry about sweeping someone with your muzzle, get better training and be more aware. If you think adding another mechanical item and operation into the mix is better and safer, you need to stop carrying. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/31/2024 5:04:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: this can’t possibly be serious https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG_2841_jpeg-3309617.JPG Well, I warned ya’lls back on page 1 that you’re responding to a low post-count ‘23-er OP.  So probability of a troll is …. nearing 100%?  |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2024 6:22:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CommanderPikeBishop]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sandboxmedic: I'm not going to insult you, but I'll reiterate that you really need to get more professional training (from good trainers who will take the time to actually work with you and not put you down, insult you or anything) and spend more time with your guns if you're that uncomfortable with them. Im not uncomfortable at all, and I get plenty of training, mostly rifle these days. My system works perfectly for me, and Ive never pointed a loaded firearm at anyone in my life. I reinforce that habit in ways many here wouldnt understand - I wont point an unmounted upper or a toy pistol at anyone, many here will probably mock that but thats because they dont grasp that its a philosophy at the root of my manual of arms. I also do a three point safety check every time I pick up a firearm,even if I checked it and set it down a minute ago. Its an underlying philosophy of safe firearm handling that takes little effort and pays great dividends. |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 6:58:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Im not uncomfortable at all, and I get plenty of training, mostly rifle these days. My system works perfectly for me, and Ive never pointed a loaded firearm at anyone in my life. I reinforce that habit in ways many here wouldnt understand - I wont point an unmounted upper or a toy pistol at anyone, many here will probably mock that but thats because they dont grasp that its a philosophy at the root of my manual of arms. I also do a three point safety check every time I pick up a firearm,even if I checked it and set it down a minute ago. Its an underlying philosophy of safe firearm handling that takes little effort and pays great dividends. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Originally Posted By sandboxmedic: I'm not going to insult you, but I'll reiterate that you really need to get more professional training (from good trainers who will take the time to actually work with you and not put you down, insult you or anything) and spend more time with your guns if you're that uncomfortable with them. Im not uncomfortable at all, and I get plenty of training, mostly rifle these days. My system works perfectly for me, and Ive never pointed a loaded firearm at anyone in my life. I reinforce that habit in ways many here wouldnt understand - I wont point an unmounted upper or a toy pistol at anyone, many here will probably mock that but thats because they dont grasp that its a philosophy at the root of my manual of arms. I also do a three point safety check every time I pick up a firearm,even if I checked it and set it down a minute ago. Its an underlying philosophy of safe firearm handling that takes little effort and pays great dividends. I don't think anyone understands it as it doesn't make sense from any sort of tactical, practical or logical point of view to anyone with any training, as indicated by three pages of people telling you it makes no sense.  You do you though, I'm out.
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Posted: 8/31/2024 7:11:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Im not uncomfortable at all, and I get plenty of training, mostly rifle these days. My system works perfectly for me, and Ive never pointed a loaded firearm at anyone in my life. I reinforce that habit in ways many here wouldnt understand - I wont point an unmounted upper or a toy pistol at anyone, many here will probably mock that but thats because they dont grasp that its a philosophy at the root of my manual of arms. I also do a three point safety check every time I pick up a firearm,even if I checked it and set it down a minute ago. Its an underlying philosophy of safe firearm handling that takes little effort and pays great dividends. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Originally Posted By sandboxmedic: I'm not going to insult you, but I'll reiterate that you really need to get more professional training (from good trainers who will take the time to actually work with you and not put you down, insult you or anything) and spend more time with your guns if you're that uncomfortable with them. Im not uncomfortable at all, and I get plenty of training, mostly rifle these days. My system works perfectly for me, and Ive never pointed a loaded firearm at anyone in my life. I reinforce that habit in ways many here wouldnt understand - I wont point an unmounted upper or a toy pistol at anyone, many here will probably mock that but thats because they dont grasp that its a philosophy at the root of my manual of arms. I also do a three point safety check every time I pick up a firearm,even if I checked it and set it down a minute ago. Its an underlying philosophy of safe firearm handling that takes little effort and pays great dividends. You're trolling. |
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Posted: 8/31/2024 9:27:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Ive never pointed a loaded firearm at anyone in my life Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Ive never pointed a loaded firearm at anyone in my life You should try it sometime. It's invigorating  Originally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: I reinforce that habit in ways many here wouldnt understand  Originally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: many here will probably mock that but thats because they dont grasp that its a philosophy at the root of my manual of arms. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2024 9:43:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CommanderPikeBishop]
[#26]
A lot of posters here are acting like always-online troll magnets. Gentlemen, Im pushing 60 and I have zero interest in creating outrage and prompting triggered reactions, and all the troll baiting Im seeing is really discouraging and disappointing. Just the self-centeredness and narcissism of thinking someone is going to waste their time and energy to elicit dumb/angry responses is really off putting. Thanks to all that responded respectfully and constructively, I appreciate the positive engagement and I realize its come to a point of diminishing returns so I will now be done with this thread.
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Posted: 8/31/2024 10:10:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Colt653]
[#27]
OP,
Do you realize that modern DA revolvers like a 686, or GP100 are completely safe to carry fully loaded ? You could load a primed case ( no bullet, no powder ) into one, mount it in a vice, and SMACK the hammer with a sledge hammer and it won't go off. You could hammer it with a sledge until the guns hammer was ruined, .....and the gun won't fire.  Safety Features of the Smith and Wesson Revolver | Smith & Wesson Revolver Project |
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Posted: 9/1/2024 2:07:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: I realize its come to a point of diminishing returns so I will now be done with this thread. 
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Posted: 9/1/2024 8:15:20 AM EDT
[#29]
I’m curious you mention you train. But in the same comment you mention you won’t point a firearm even a toy gun at others. Have you ever taken any force on force training either with sims or something like airsoft? Lots of good intentions and perfect methods go to shit with the interdiction of stress and facing aggression.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2024 8:50:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: One question that keeps coming up in semi-auto concealed carry is to pipe or not to pipe. To carry with a round chambered vs unchambered. Most eventually agree that it makes no sense to carry without the +1 loaded because having to rack the slide after drawing in a critical situation is not advisable. But many are still rightly nervous to carry with a hot chamber because it violates the first rule of handguns - don't point at what you don't want to destroy. The system I have devised is based on absolute, total safety - without compromising readiness, reliability or capacity. I call it Serbian carry. It consists of two handguns. A primary weapon, a crossdraw carry revolver with an empty chamber under the hammer and the rest of the cylinder loaded, and a secondary semiauto with an empty chamber carried at three o'clock (carry positions can vary to suit the operator's preference). No matter what happens, those firearms will not go off accidentally. You could get hit by a bus crossing the street and both guns could fly into a wall or under a truck, they still wont fire. However, if a threat arises, no racking is necessary to fire the primary firearm and meet the threat with deadly force, giving you time to draw the secondary weapon and rack it, one handed if need be. I devised this system with my Charter Arms pitbull in .45acp and Glock 30, carried at 10 and 3 o'clock respectively but of course you can adapt it to your caliber and carry preference. All rights reserved. https://i.imgur.com/krsgb21.jpeg 1873 just called. They want their carry tactics back........... |
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Posted: 9/1/2024 11:13:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Rated - troll
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Posted: 9/2/2024 1:50:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroEngineer]
[#32]
I carry a loaded firearm every day. I’m not violating any safety rules carrying a loaded pistol in a quality holster.
OP needs more training. |
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Posted: 9/2/2024 2:26:40 PM EDT
[#33]
This thread has been at the very least entertaining.
Questions for OP Do you wear a N95 mask while driving alone? Do you pressure check all your tires before driving? Check all brake lines are intact? Check all fluids levels? Each time you prepare to drive? Do you chaulk your wheels when you park even if it is flat ground and the emergency brake is set? Do you come to a complete stop at a stop sign count to three then look left then right and left again before proceeding? Every single time without exception? Do you wear a condom when you spank the monkey? Do you stop at green lights and lights if they turn yellow and you can safely make it through but stop anyways? Do you also stop at yields? |
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Posted: 9/2/2024 3:16:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Cocked and locked, baby! Cocked and locked!
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Posted: 9/2/2024 6:50:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Everyone knows true Serbian Carry is resting the barrel of your loaded gun on the back of the skull of your kneeling, unarmed, victim.
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Posted: 9/2/2024 7:53:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SiVisPacem: Everyone knows true Serbian Carry is resting the barrel of your loaded gun on the back of the skull of your kneeling, unarmed, victim. Wrong a true Serbian carry is a FN M1910 in 9mm Kurz strolling around Sarajevo looking for an Austrian with a full funny mustache and his wife cruising around in a convertible. |
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Posted: 9/4/2024 10:34:59 AM EDT
[#37]
This is certainly one of the most odd threads I've read in awhile.
OP, are you planning to rent a table at upcoming gun shows? |
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Posted: 9/5/2024 8:36:06 AM EDT
[#38]
OP, I just can't agree with you. Modern guns have so many built-in safety features that having an empty chamber for carry makes no sense. If you're concerned any of your guns may fire accidentally, on their own or dropped, maybe you should get a different design.
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Posted: 9/5/2024 5:35:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CommanderPikeBishop: Mods, if this thread is too contentious please lock it down, I mainly wanted to get the system on the record and have a productive discussion about it, if the second part is a no go, might as well shut it down. Yes please shut it down... |
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USA
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Posted: 9/5/2024 6:24:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SquatchAv8: This is certainly one of the most odd threads I've read in awhile. OP, are you planning to rent a table at upcoming gun shows? And sell Beanie Babies & copies of Anarchist's Cookbook? Holy stupid I can't believe this thread is still going. |
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Posted: 9/7/2024 9:44:53 AM EDT
[#41]
We have GD for this stuff, this is a tech forum
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