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Posted: 9/18/2021 3:11:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Are irons even necessary on a red dot ccw?
I've been carrying a 365 xl with a 507k on it for about a year now and I don't even notice the irons, the 507k has the built-in rear sight. The next pistol to get a red dot is my stock CZ P01, I'm considering a Trijicon R06 and I'm thinking I could get by with just a front sight. If I lose the dot I could get by out to at least 10 yards with just the stock front. If I go with a rear I'm thinking of placing it in front (if possible) to keep debris off the optic, otherwise I don't see any utility and it adds to the cost and takes up what little slide real estate is available on the P01. Thoughts? |
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Posted: 9/18/2021 3:37:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jitterbug: Are irons even necessary on a red dot ccw? I've been carrying a 365 xl with a 507k on it for about a year now and I don't even notice the irons, the 507k has the built-in rear sight. The next pistol to get a red dot is my stock CZ P01, I'm considering a Trijicon R06 and I'm thinking I could get by with just a front sight. If I lose the dot I could get by out to at least 10 yards with just the stock front. If I go with a rear I'm thinking of placing it in front (if possible) to keep debris off the optic, otherwise I don't see any utility and it adds to the cost and takes up what little slide real estate is available on the P01. Thoughts? |
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Posted: 9/18/2021 4:14:13 PM EDT
[#3]
I think yes, still a good idea to have.
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Posted: 9/18/2021 9:19:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fooboy: I think yes, still a good idea to have. Can’t hurt. |
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Posted: 9/19/2021 2:07:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: shelbysguns]
[#5]
After several SROs that went to the big square range in the sky.
Replaced them with a few RM09s. Trusty rusty G34.5 awaiting the new cloud pistol light.  Attached FileJust heated the rear hump up and flattened it a bit. Trying to cure its tendency to present nose up. The chunk of backstrap is the same idea. |
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Posted: 9/24/2021 2:38:24 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 9/24/2021 2:58:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By laxman09: Finally joined the club https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/450791/PXL_20210924_183520782_2_jpg-2103142.JPG |
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Posted: 9/24/2021 7:02:37 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 9/25/2021 8:56:47 AM EDT
[#9]
first holosun i have owned in some time - 508T - so far, so good...
 
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Posted: 9/25/2021 9:22:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jitterbug: Are irons even necessary on a red dot ccw? I've been carrying a 365 xl with a 507k on it for about a year now and I don't even notice the irons, the 507k has the built-in rear sight. The next pistol to get a red dot is my stock CZ P01, I'm considering a Trijicon R06 and I'm thinking I could get by with just a front sight. If I lose the dot I could get by out to at least 10 yards with just the stock front. If I go with a rear I'm thinking of placing it in front (if possible) to keep debris off the optic, otherwise I don't see any utility and it adds to the cost and takes up what little slide real estate is available on the P01. Thoughts? I keep 3 dot tritiums on all my red dotted pistols because in low/no light it’s hard to get the dot back if you lose it. Two hands on the pistol in a normal draw, yeah perfect index is easy. But when you break that chain of motion it’s not as easy to find the dot. Especially with one hand. |
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Posted: 9/25/2021 5:25:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
[#11]
13 YO shot his first match. Squad RO was yours truly
Made great hits and did well. Red dots make it possible.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/27/2021 11:23:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NCPatrolAR]
[#12]
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Posted: 10/2/2021 7:59:28 AM EDT
[#13]
 Attached FileG43x. I replaced the factory slide with an NP3 coated Suarez Supermatch slide with plate for full size RMR. |
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Posted: 10/2/2021 9:03:16 PM EDT
[#14]
 I'm gathering parts to complete one of PSA's Dagger 9mm frames, and I am wanting a optic compatible slide. I notice that the Brownells RMR slide pictured above has "bosses" around the mounting holes/threads. I know this would be better for recoil, and most other aftermarket slides don't have them (like AIM). I am wondering if the HOLOSUN would have problems with mounting there? Do the custom milled OEM slides have the bosses or not? I already have OEM Glock parts to complete the slide, and will be using a Griffin Carry-Comp barrel. I binged all the relevant Sage Dynamics YOUTUBE vids, and am lookin forward to trying the dot. 
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Posted: 10/2/2021 9:11:55 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 10/2/2021 9:30:03 PM EDT
[#16]
I should have read the Q&A on the listing.
 "Purchased the RMR slide instead of modifying my G19 gen3 slide which already has low profile Trijicon night sights. The 507 fit the new slide perfectly. Note that the 507 comes with #6-32 screws. They DO NOT fit the Brownell slide. You have to use the #4-40 screws that Brownell supplies with the slide." That answers one of my questions.
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Posted: 10/2/2021 10:12:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#17]
Originally Posted By Bradd_D: The window on my Glock 17 gets fouled up pretty quickly while shooting. I can't help but wonder if a C Glock would be worse. Originally Posted By Bradd_D: My post was in regards to the fouling coming out of the two large ports in the barrel and slide on a C Glock. Well, it done got did... been carrying it for a couple weeks. I went with standard placement .250”/.335” sights for the lowest possible cowitness. It’s a bit less obtrusive than .315”/.394” 1XL iron-forward sights. The window doesn’t get dirty enough to bother me even after ~75 rounds. The front sight post white dot on the other hand is completely blacked out before the first mag is finished  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/11/2021 8:13:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Anyone using tritium night sights with their RMR?
I followed the conventional wisdom of using blacked out BUIS and installed a set of GL-429s on my 19.5 MOS when I got it a year ago. I don’t even notice the irons in the bottom of the window. Where I do miss the tritium is finding and indexing my pistol when I grab it in the dark. All of my other handguns have night sights and I know exactly where they are on my nightstand, on a hotel room table or on the floor of my tent. I’ve been thinking of switching to something like this but it would be even better if I could find something with no outline on the front sight. I even considered just switching out the rear sight for the tritium version.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/11/2021 8:19:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bradd_D]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Anyone using tritium night sights with their RMR? I followed the conventional wisdom of using blacked out BUIS and installed a set of GL-429s on my 19.5 MOS when I got it a year ago. I don't even notice the irons in the bottom of the window. Where I do miss the tritium is finding and indexing my pistol when I grab it in the dark. All of my other handguns have night sights and I know exactly where they are on my nightstand, on a hotel room table or on the floor of my tent. I've been thinking of switching to something like this but it would be even better if I could find something with no outline on the front sight. I even considered just switching out the rear sight for the tritium version. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/34777/79E3D719-EC99-4962-860F-476556077D7E_jpe-2126641.JPG  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/11/2021 8:20:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Anyone using tritium night sights with their RMR? I followed the conventional wisdom of using blacked out BUIS and installed a set of GL-429s on my 19.5 MOS when I got it a year ago. I don’t even notice the irons in the bottom of the window. Where I do miss the tritium is finding and indexing my pistol when I grab it in the dark. All of my other handguns have night sights and I know exactly where they are on my nightstand, on a hotel room table or on the floor of my tent. I’ve been thinking of switching to something like this but it would be even better if I could find something with no outline on the front sight. I even considered just switching out the rear sight for the tritium version. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/34777/79E3D719-EC99-4962-860F-476556077D7E_jpe-2126641.JPG I typically just go with black irons. If I did do tritium, I’d only get the front with tritium. If you want to dim the dot/cover the white ring, just make a few passes over it with a green Sharpie |
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Posted: 10/11/2021 8:26:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Anyone using tritium night sights with their RMR? |
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Posted: 10/11/2021 8:53:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
[#22]
I've thought about tritium front, but I end up rather having a light.
Couldn't hurt I suppose |
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Posted: 10/12/2021 9:36:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheQuadfather]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Anyone using tritium night sights with their RMR? I followed the conventional wisdom of using blacked out BUIS and installed a set of GL-429s on my 19.5 MOS when I got it a year ago. I don’t even notice the irons in the bottom of the window. Where I do miss the tritium is finding and indexing my pistol when I grab it in the dark. All of my other handguns have night sights and I know exactly where they are on my nightstand, on a hotel room table or on the floor of my tent. I’ve been thinking of switching to something like this but it would be even better if I could find something with no outline on the front sight. I even considered just switching out the rear sight for the tritium version. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/34777/79E3D719-EC99-4962-860F-476556077D7E_jpe-2126641.JPG I have Trijicon 3-dot suppressor height sights with RMRs. Does exactly what you want it to.  |
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Posted: 10/12/2021 11:39:25 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 10/12/2021 9:43:51 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:44:03 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:09:01 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 10/29/2021 6:43:31 PM EDT
[#28]
still no firm date on Aimpoint ACRO P-2 or the updated holosun 509T... which ever comes available first will be on my L-W...
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Posted: 10/29/2021 7:52:47 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 11/1/2021 5:38:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11boomboom]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heron163: still no firm date on Aimpoint ACRO P-2 or the updated holosun 509T... which ever comes available first will be on my L-W... I wish I knew there was an updated 509T coming out. I just shipped my SP-01 slide last week to get one machined to it. |
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Posted: 11/17/2021 6:25:20 PM EDT
[#31]
I sent my gen 3 Glock 19 Slide to Battle Werx on Saturday. They got it yesterday (Tuesday), and before noon today I got an email saying with was shipped out back to me. Delivery date says Saturday. So back in my hands in 7 days total.
that's pretty good service. Let's see how the cut looks... |
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Posted: 11/17/2021 8:25:36 PM EDT
[#32]
I got all mine done at Battlewerx. Flawless.
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Posted: 11/18/2021 3:26:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SilverLightning]
[#33]
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Posted: 11/18/2021 4:18:37 PM EDT
[#34]
>>Some people find them a great advantage others less so, and it depends on what the intent is for your pistol.
I can’t deny they may be the wave of the future, but I am simply not there yet<< This is the way I feel as well. Since I'm not "target" shooting anymore due to the ammo situation, I just don't feel the need for one on SD guns. Just me.... |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 4:24:36 PM EDT
[#35]
>>I can’t deny they may be the wave of the future, but I am simply not there yet<<
The Trijicon RMR has been the gold-standard for well over a decade. You may need to catch the next wave. 
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/18/2021 6:12:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spydercomonkey]
[#36]
First time shooting a RDS pistol last week.
1.19" group at 15yd offhand, aiming at a 1" square piece of gaffers tape. RDS really makes knowing exactly where the pistol is aimed pretty easy compared to irons.  That said, I had several groups that were 4-5" wide, because I flubbed a trigger press and opened up the group way up. So while the RDS is a great upgrade, trigger control really remains the most essential factor. |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 8:37:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: First time shooting a RDS pistol last week. 1.19" group at 15yd offhand, aiming at a 1" square piece of gaffers tape. RDS really makes knowing exactly where the pistol is aimed pretty easy compared to irons. https://i.ibb.co/wwD7rDY/CZ-P09-15yd-copy.jpg That said, I had several groups that were 4-5" wide, because I flubbed a trigger press and opened up the group way up. So while the RDS is a great upgrade, trigger control really remains the most essential factor. It exposes weaknesses but improves your strengths |
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Posted: 11/18/2021 8:40:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fooboy: I got all mine done at Battlewerx. Flawless. |
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Posted: 11/19/2021 1:16:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: First time shooting a RDS pistol last week. 1.19" group at 15yd offhand, aiming at a 1" square piece of gaffers tape. RDS really makes knowing exactly where the pistol is aimed pretty easy compared to irons. https://i.ibb.co/wwD7rDY/CZ-P09-15yd-copy.jpg That said, I had several groups that were 4-5" wide, because I flubbed a trigger press and opened up the group way up. So while the RDS is a great upgrade, trigger control really remains the most essential factor. One of the coolest parts of a pistol red dot is the visible and instant feedback it gives you on grip and trigger squeeze. The bullet always goes where the dot is at the trigger break and you can see this precisely. When you have a bad trigger squeeze you can watch the dot jump to one side or the other or jump off screen. This applies in dry fire as well, you can watch the dot move, or not, when you pull the trigger and know if you're doing things right. I became a better pistol shooter from dry firing and shooting with red dots. This transfers over to iron sight pistols too. |
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Posted: 11/19/2021 9:47:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
[#40]
Universal truths, proverbs, and haikus
source: GD thread The dot does not cause weakness, rather - it reveals it. Iron sights whisper But the red dot screams at you Let the wise improve The dot does not make a poor shooter good, but it does make the good shooter gooder The red dot exaggerates the shooterer's weaknesses but also their strengths When some men seek after the dot and do not find it quickly they are perhaps the first time confronted with the harsh truth that their presentation is trash Disregard irons. Acquire dots. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/19/2021 10:09:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fooboy: Universal truths, proverbs, and haikus source: GD thread The dot does not cause weakness, rather - it reveals it. Iron sights whisper But the red dot screams at you Let the wise improve The dot does not make a poor shooter good, but it does make the good shooter gooder The red dot exaggerates the shooterer's weaknesses but also their strengths When some men seek after the dot and do not find it quickly they are perhaps the first time confronted with the harsh truth that their presentation is trash Disregard irons. Acquire dots. I love this! Lol. Anyways to go on the questions about irons: I’ve had irons fail me more then red dots using colt 1911, glocks, M&P and FN pistols. Been shooting red dots for 5+ years. I only own trijicon RMR’s and SRO’s. I don’t see a need for co witness irons let alone tritium. Way to much going on and you’re not using the red dot for what it’s intended… you’re still using irons with an easier dot to see lol. Takes away from using the dot. Use lower 1/3 irons as BACK UPS. All blacked out. Then you’ll see the dot shine and not be slowed down with irons as a crutch. |
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Posted: 11/19/2021 3:09:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnMH92: I don't see a need for co witness irons let alone tritium. Way to much going on and you're not using the red dot for what it's intended you're still using irons with an easier dot to see lol. Takes away from using the dot. Use lower 1/3 irons as BACK UPS. All blacked out. Then you'll see the dot shine and not be slowed down with irons as a crutch. |
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Posted: 11/20/2021 10:49:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MRW]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: I sent my gen 3 Glock 19 Slide to Battle Werx on Saturday. They got it yesterday (Tuesday), and before noon today I got an email saying with was shipped out back to me. Delivery date says Saturday. So back in my hands in 7 days total. that's pretty good service. Let's see how the cut looks... I opted for no refinish and I used some perma-blue cold blue paste. The cut was as smooth as glass and the blue took to it well. I bought a cover plate and that fit like a glove too. All future cuts will go to Battlewerx. Here it is after one coat of PermaBlue. I thought the spiral marks would be uneven to the touch but it's super smooth. What causes those?  |
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Posted: 11/21/2021 12:29:32 AM EDT
[#44]
I love BW. Neat they started adding the bosses in addition to the posts.
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Posted: 11/21/2021 1:26:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MRW]
[#45]
Stock sights cannot be seen with the Battlewerx cut and Holosun 407. What are the most basic steel iron sight height that will have the u-notch clear the optic? No tritium, perhaps white dot front only. I'm looking hard at the Ameriglo set for $60
Edit: I see that on the Battlewerx order page they list the Ameriglo 2x height sights has having lower 1/3 cowitness, so that gives me a reference point. |
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Posted: 11/21/2021 6:18:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: It arrived today as promised, cut is perfect. Test fitted my Holosun 407 and it fits like a bespoke glove, and this is with an RMR cut. I opted for no refinish and I used some perma-blue cold blue paste. The cut was as smooth as glass and the blue took to it well. I bought a cover plate and that fit like a glove too. All future cuts will go to Battlewerx. Here it is after one coat of PermaBlue. I thought the spiral marks would be uneven to the touch but it's super smooth. What causes those? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/5205/4F3F4137-6A63-4E8F-9D45-402BC3D15B27-2175079.jpg Those marks look like machine marks to me. Seems like the path the bit takes to do the milling. Were they there before the blue? |
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Posted: 11/21/2021 10:35:40 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: Stock sights cannot be seen with the Battlewerx cut and Holosun 407. What are the most basic steel iron sight height that will have the u-notch clear the optic? No tritium, perhaps white dot front only. I'm looking hard at the Ameriglo set for $60 I have Ameriglo GL429 on a couple of mine. Works good with a direct milled RMR. |
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Posted: 11/21/2021 11:50:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: I thought the spiral marks would be uneven to the touch but it's super smooth. What causes those? |
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Posted: 11/21/2021 11:51:22 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steviesterno16: Those marks look like machine marks to me. Seems like the path the bit takes to do the milling. Were they there before the blue? |
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Posted: 11/21/2021 2:24:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRW: Yes, there before the blue, but the surface is mirror smooth, not machine marks. Is it pressure from the cutter? Yes, they are tool marks. They are made by the end of the end mill that was removing the material. The only way to remove them are grinding (not feasable with the bosses raised), sand/bead blasting, or polishing. The last two would probably leave a less-flat but maybe more smooth surface. |
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