An IR filter – or IR cut filter - is a color filter blocking the infrared light. There are several good reasons for using an IR-cut filter. Using a color camera to achieve realistic colors in white light requires an IR-cut filter. The color spectrum seen by the human eye is quite limited compared to the spectrum seen by a CCD camera. Especially, in the near infrared region of the spectrum the difference in sensitivity is significant. This is important to know since many light sources, including the sun, emit infrared light. A CCD color camera in daylight without an IR-cut filter will therefore see a significant amount of infrared light resulting in strange colors

Truth.  The lack of an IR filter causes the camera to not render colors properly during daytime.  Once it gets dark, the camera removes the IR filter so that it can take advantage of the near-IR spectrum to illuminate a dark scene.

The lack of a IR cut filter causes the camera to look like something out of Dr Seus,

Green eggs and ham?  

Pretty close, i have seen green shrubs appear purple

I have 3 Dedicated Micros BX2CA DVRs.  The all need the hard drives and caddies. They are $1,000 and up from the factory for the pair.  I was hoping some one knew where I could find just the empty caddy.  I can put the drives in myself.  A part number would be enough.

Thanks

Looks like a hot-swap bay... any chance you could hack it to take a different removable-bay drive caddy?  What does the backplane look like inside those bays?  SATA or PATA?

I wonder if there's not a way to make that work... unless DM manufactured their own proprietary connector (and knowing DM, they might have... )

ETA:  We're talking about one of these, right?

I have been studying this thread for about 6 months and finally pulled the trigger and bought 2 used  cameras, a  Mobotix  M12 and a Mobotix D22M.  After learning so much info from
the posts in this thread I was able to get them up and running.  I am able to view them on my network but that is as far as I got.

My problem is how to set up the cameras so that I can access them from the internet.  I have read the posts about port forwarding, but I am not sure how to apply this to these cameras.  I am using a D Link 4500 router, the cameras are powered by a Cisco SRW 2024P switch.  Any help would be appreciated.

Can you post a link to your exact model's manual?  I'm away from my PC, but I'll take a crack at walking you through it when I get some place with a n acual keyboard.

ETA:  I'm talking about your router

This is the model.  

DGL-4500 Xtreme N Gaming Router



http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=643

That is the one.  Here is a pick of the inside.  It measures roughly 8d x 5 1/4 w & under 1 inch tall.

double tap

Ah... I have seen that connector before... stand by; let me try to find it

ETA:  I used to use mobile racks in some of my systems, and I had a set of drive racks with that connector.  They were like this one.  Check out the eighth picture down.

Here is one on Amazon... and IIRC, mine looked like that, and had that connector.  For $3, you might try it... even if it doesn't work/fit, you won't be out much.

Try this link and see if it works for you.

Those are close.  This one is the full 5 1/4" wide with the key on the caddy not beside it.

For $1000, I'd rather hack something together... screw DM; that's outrageous for a couple of drive caddies.

I agree.  They are on ebay.  There is just a big difference in price

The last time I had a DM unit, they quoted me an unbelievable sum for replacing a couple of drives.  I managed to do it myself for MUCH less.

BTW, tigo... did you solve your port-forwarding problem?

BTW, tigo... did you solve your port-forwarding problem?[/quote]

Thanks for following up.  I am out of town at the Myrtle Beach gun show.
I will try your advice when I get home on Sunday.

I set up a static ip address and tried the port forwarding with no success.  The D Link router software lets you set up a virtual server like I saw on page 17 of this topic.

Advanced
The Advanced options allow you to configure a variety of advanced features including ports, application priority, Internet access, filters, and advanced wireless settings.

Virtual Server

The Virtual Server option gives Internet users access to services on your LAN. This feature is useful for hosting online services such as FTP, Web, or Game Servers. For each Virtual Server, you define a public port on your router for redirection to an internal LAN IP Address and port.

Example: You are hosting a Web Server on a PC that has Private IP Address of 192.168.0.50 and your ISP is blocking Port 80.

1. Name the Virtual Server Rule (ex. Web Server)
2. Enter in the IP Address of the machine on your LAN – 192.168.0.50
3. Enter the Private Port as [80]
4. Enter the Public Port as [8888]
5. Select the Protocol - TCP
6. Ensure the schedule is set to Always
7. Check the Add Rule to add the settings to the Virtual Server List
8. Repeat these steps for each Virtual Server Rule you wish to add. After the list is complete, click Save Settings at the top of the page.

With this Virtual Server Rule all Internet traffic on Port 8888 will be redirected to your internal web server on port 80 at IP Address 192.168.0.50.


I tried this with out any luck.  I am not sure I have the cameras set to the correct port.  Under the Mobotix Admin Menu I set the ports to 80,25000 and set this up in the virtual server listed above
the exact same way.  Is this right or am I just not getting the whole picture.  Thanks

Just set the mobotix cameras to use the standard port 80, and forward a high random port number from your external IP address (like 8880) to the mobotix camera IP address and port.  Make sure you enable both TCP and UDP.  Sometimes you have to restart/reboot your firewall/router for it to work properly.

Hello, great thread and great forum.  I have been reading this forum for quite some time but I finally joined to talk to you, TheGrayMan.

I am an electrician, I have done a bit of work with security cameras, but they were always speced for me, I just did the installation.

I have a condo that I service that asked about security cameras, they basically want a 2 camera system that will record from both sides of their courtyard.   Basically just a DVR and 2 cameras, but the cameras need to be able to record a good image of people up to 80' away.

At that distance, what type of camera do you recommend?  There is quite a bit of lighting in that courtyard at night.  One of the cameras will have to be about 175' of wiring away from the DVR, the second camera will only be able 50' away.

Happy to give you my two cents... but please remember that I'm not a pro at this stuff.

A face-shot on a person 80 feet away is going to be challenging, and will require a longer-lens camera.  You may be hard-pressed to get that with a standard dome camera, as space inside the dome is sometimes at a premium, and many of them can't contain a longer lens without hitting the inside of the dome (I think you're going to want something in the 40-50mm range).  I know for a fact that the Panasonic 484S domes will take a 15-50mm lens inside the dome, but some others may not.

You can probably get a reasonable face-shot with regular analog cameras, if you choose your field-of-view carefully.  Remember... it's all about pixel density.  If you try to spread too few pixels over too-large an area, your picture will get blocky/grainy, and you won't be able to ID the person in question.  If you go megapixel, you can get a little more sloppy/wide with your field-of-view and still get the pixel density that you want.  More = better.

It's good that the area is well-lit.  Like pixels, more light is generally better (especially at night).  

Cable length should not be an issue for either analog signal (if you use analog cams), or for ethernet (if you use IP cams).  It might be an issue for your power cabling, since you can expect some DC voltage drop from a typical Siamese 18/2 gauge power cable that's almost 200 feet long.  You can probably expect your 12VDC to be 10-11VDC by the time it reaches your camera... so you may want to compensate by boosting the voltage a bit at the head-end (14V would probably be sufficient).  This will require a voltage-tunable DC power supply (or you could use 24VAC, which is more line-loss tolerant).  An IP-based PoE camera will take 48VDC through the network cable, and should function at that distance.

If you choose IP cameras, make sure the longer lenses you choose are "megapixel" lenses.  Regular lenses are ground to a certain tolerance, such that their flaws aren't visible in a normal analog picture.  If you put those same lenses on a multi-megapixel camera (which will have many times the pixel density of the analog cam), you'll quickly notice that your picture is fuzzy, has visual artifacts, or just isn't as good as you expected.  Megapixel lenses tend to be more expensive, so figure that into your cost calculation (they're worth it).

I'd probably go megapixel and IP-based (just to ensure you get enough pixels and picture quality to do the job), then run the camera software on a cast-off PC or extra computer in the office.  A Milestone "Xprotect Essential" software license will cost you about 80-90 dollars (and include licenses for two cameras).  It's good software, supports many different kinds of cameras, and is very user-friendly.  With two cameras running, it should be lightweight enough that you can run it on an average dual-core office PC with little problem.... just add a second hard drive for image storage.

At that distance, and with the kind of lenses you're probably going to require, consider using box cameras inside weather enclosures.  Domes are nice, in that they're self-contained... but the selection of lenses and configurations may not be what you need.  If aesthetics are a huge concern (and they are in some places... some apartments/condos don't WANT highly-visible cameras... whereas others want them highly visible, such that they're a deterrent... it pays to ask).

I use the Axis 213 cams, have one in an 8" dome on top of the mtn, several others in windows there, all can be logged into anywhere, and they have an effective focal length of 80mm IIRC and a 'power' of X26.

They are small and incredible. I can read an LCD display from ~50 feet away, easily see vehicles moving on the road 15 miles away.

http://www.axis.com/products/cam_213/

Thanks.  That got it to work.  Now I can view my cameras from work or my iphone.
Once again yours and others input into this thread have been amazing.  Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Thank you for the reply!

I spoke with the manager, he says that being able to zoom in on someone face isn't a priority, but he would like to be able to recognize the people who live there.  One of the concerns of the condo is dogs ruining the grass with their pee and the owners not cleaning up the poop.  It's a very low crime area, maybe kids doing some vandalizing once in a while.

As for the voltage drop on the far camera, I could install a power supply much closer to the camera, it's just that the DVR has to be 175' away.  

The manager understands that he won't be getting a little dome camera, he is expecting a large camera inside a weatherproof casing, he actually likes that look so people know not to mess around.

Can you recommend a camera complete with lens and case for this situation?

http://www2.cop-usa.com/ebproductdetail.asp?id=1109

4 channel analog DVR.  $109 plus the cost of a harddrive.

Someone talk me out of this, and convince me that I'm not wasting my time and money putting together a ZoneAlarm box.

-WhyTanFox

It sounds more to me like you're wanting area coverage, rather than tight face-shots of people.  You might be able to get away without a really long/expensive lens.

I've been hearing a bit lately about Vivotek cameras, and they have some very reasonably-priced megapixel box cameras.  A 2MP box camera can be had for less than $500, and that camera even includes on-camera storage via SD-card.  The model is the IP7161, and there's a matching Vivotek enclosure (you're going to want heater/blower for your latitude... NJ can get damned cold... that'll be another $200).  That would probably cover the area you want, and is an actual day/night camera.  

Here is the manuf. link.
It can be purchased any number of places online, but I've had good luck with Surveillent


Alternatively, you could go Acti.  Their TCM-5311 is a box camera that has a 1.3MP picture, and is day/night.  It's more expensive than the Vivotek, but has a longer lens option, should you need it.  The camera itself is going to be about $200 more than the Vivotek, but the enclosure is about $75 cheaper.

Here is the manuf. link.
They also have a heater/blower-equipped outdoor enclosure that accommodates that camera:  PMAX-0201


Another choice that's relatively new to the megapixel arena (but aggressively-priced) is some of the Sanyo stuff.   The HD2300 is another lower-cost alternative, but doesn't come with a lens IIRC.  You can put that in a generic enclosure, provided it has a heater and blower (again, winter-time in NJ ain't the Bahamas).

Lots of options... mostly only limited by your budget.

All of those are supported by Milestone, and can be equipped with longer lenses, should the included ones be inadequate for the FOV you want.

Thank you very much, if there is anything I can ever help you with please let me know

Looking at my first camera.  I plan to go all IP cameras, mostly megapixel.  I am looking at the Acti TCM-7411.  I really wish the Panasonic 484S was megapixel, but alas.  

I have 2 questions about the Acti.  Can the image be rotated 90 degrees for a vertical wall?  I read the firmware manual and see video flipping and mirror, but I'm not sure that's what I want for a vertical mount.  I don't really want to go with the L-mount.
Second, how is the color on these units?  I saw some day pictures in this thread of the ACM 7411, and the colors seem bright/too saturated.  Can these be adjusted?

Thanks for the help.

The Acti dome can be mounted flat against a wall.  Here is a PDF that describes some of the options for mounting/viewing.  

As for the color, that can be adjusted in software.  Once you log in to the camera, you can adjust the color balance using sliders.  Let me see if I can get you a screenshot.

ETA:  Here is a PDF that shows the color-balance adjustment in0for the latest firmware... around page 33 or so.

Thanks for the documents.  Do you have any experience with this camera?

Also, the documentation states the following about power consumption:

PoE Class 3 (IEEE802.3af) / 6.24 W (heater and fan off)
PoE Class 3 (IEEE802.3af) / 7.68W (fan on)
DC 12V / 4.8 W (heater and fan off)
DC 12V / 13.68 W (heater and fan on)

Does this mean that the heater won't work using PoE?  Not sure if the heater is necessary.  It is very humid around these parts, so it might be good to have.

Yep.  I actually have one in service right now.... and it's mounted flat against a wall, so I KNOW that mounting option works

And you're correct... the heater option draws too much current to be used with PoE.  However, unless you're really in a heinously cold climate, that camera's electronics generate enough internal heat that you might be OK (in the northern plains states, you probably ought to consider the heater).  The only moving part is the ICR (infrared filter), and if there's not much moisture inside the dome, I can't see that freezing up on you.

And a trick for getting rid of the humidity is to use those little plastic moister-absorbers that you find in pill bottles.  You can buy those, and when I"m installing a dome (and I use silicone around the wire-entrance to seal it), I throw one of those jobbies inside the dome.  It absorbs the residual moisture, and prevents condensation and fogging when it gets cold.

Update 11/26/10
"HARBOR FREIGHT ( BUNKER HILL ) 4 Channel Surveillance DVR with 4 Cameras " near the bottom of PAGE 36


ETA: Made the link hot.

tagged.....some great and useful info here, thanks

Thank you, Speargun... that's an excellent contribution, and fills a major hole in this thread's knowledge base.

I will update the TOC.

ETA:  TOC updated, with attribution

Is that a TCM or ACM 7411?  I do not see the TCM 7411 as a supported camera in the Luxriot software (which you are using).

Also, how does Luxriot handle unsupported cameras?  I see that there is an option to add a generic camera.  What functionality is lost using the generic camera setup vs using a supported camera?

The TCM 7411 I have deployed is connected to a Milestone system... not Luxriot.  

And I've found the "generic camera" function works in Luxriot... I added an unsupported Panasonic IP camera, and it successfully pulled video from the camera.

Hope I can get a little networking help here, I am a noob.  I bought a used Panasonic WV-NF302, all it came with was the dome camera itself.  I cannot connect to the camera via IE when I enter the IP address in the address bar.  Here is what I have:

Desktop running Vista
Netgear WGR614v8
D-Link 1008PA PoE switch
camera

The switch is connected to the router and the camera is plugged into one of the PoE ports on the switch.  I downloaded all of the documentation I could find from the Panasonic website.  I ran the camera viewer software (activex control?).  When I run the EasyIP software, the camera is found.  I can go in and change the IP information and port.  Right now it is set as the default 192.168.0.10 port 80.  Whenever I put this IP address in the IE address bar, it times out and gives me the page cannot be displayed message.  I have tried this using several different IP addresses, same result.  When I try to ping the camera, it fails.

I have tried turning off the Windows firewall with no success.  I started reading about port forwarding, but I really don't even know if that is something I need to be looking at.

I am confused as to why the Panasonic EasyIP program can see the camera on the network, but I cannot even ping it (there may be a good reason, I am not familiar with networking, yet).  Any help or pointers would be appreciated.  Thanks.

If you can't ping the camera, there's something wrong with your network settings.  What's the IP address and netmask of your Desktop?

router is 192.168.1.1
desktop is 192.168.1.2

Netmask, not sure.  I remember seeing the standard 255.255.255.0 last night, but it might have been in the camera.  I will look when I get back home.

That's your problem.  Set the IP address of the camera to 192.168.1.10, rather than 192.168.0.10

You cannot connect because your computer can't see the camera with its current IP address.  The Panasonic IP tool is likely using a protocol other than TCP/IP to detect the camera (like Bonjour, ARP, or something else)

I'm pretty sure I tried that, but the change would never take hold in the camera.  I do remember seeing an eror message from the EasyIP software.

Or maybe I am not remembering correctly.  I tried so many things.  I will try changing the IP addresss of the camera again tonight.  Thanks for the ideas.

Alternatively, change the IP address of your desktop computer to 192.168.0.X  (192.168.0.2 would work) and then connect to the camera.  As long as you're on the same network switch, you should be GTG.  After you've configured the camera, reboot the camera to commit the IP address change (hopefully you chose some form of 192.168.1.X), then change your desktop computer's IP address back to normal.

That's probably the easiest way to do it.

Got a connection to the camera now.  The error in changing the camera to .1.10 was becaue I left the gateway set to .0.10.  Changed both and can now operate the camera as normal on my LAN.  Thanks so much for the help.

It's me again.

I'm having trouble getting the network functioning again since having to wipe/reformat the hard drive on my computer.

When we first setup the network, we had a Verizon dynamic IP... and used some online service to connect/update the IP so we could view cameras remotely. (dyndvrdns...something)

Since re-doing the 'puters, I've upgraded to a static IP with Verizon...  but don't have a friggin clue how to get the cameras back up on the network....  I assume the DVR is probably still setup for the old dynamic IP and needs to be gone over from scratch.

I sure wish I had a "TheGrayMan" here in Reading, PA.  My camera guy is completely unreliable and isn't worth a shit.

Any idea where to start ?

I have all my router info... (IP/subnet/def gateway/dns pri/ dns sec) and did a "network reboot" on the DVR... (have all numbers too) just not sure how to setup the dvr that they will talk to each other...

Can you tell me what the fans in these cameras are used for?  When does it need to be used?  I'm looking at the Cicso SFE1000P switch because its 8 ports with PoE, but it is labeled as 8 ports at 7.5W each, or 4 ports at 15.4W each.  As seen above, the unit would work for this camera and allow me to use all 8 ports PoE, as long as the fan isn't running.  What is the average power needed for IP cameras?

Any other ideas for a switch?  I would actually prefer a 16 port switch with PoE, a couple of gigabit ports, and fanless.  I would love to have a 24-port unit, but all of the ones I have seen have fans in them, and reviews say they are loud.  I am not willing to void the warranty by replacing a fan(s) at this point.

Good to see you, Art  

One question:  is your DVR the only thing on that connection, or does it sit behind a D-link/Linksys/Netgear/etc router?

If it's the only thing on that connection, what's probably happening is that your DVR is set to use DHCP to get its IP address... and if you have a static IP, DHCP won't work.  You'll need to turn off DHCP in the DVR's network settings, and enter your static IP.  Your cable/DSL provider should also have provided you with DNS server addresses, netmask, and a gateway IP address (if they didn't give you those, call them and get that information... you may need them to set the DVR's network configuration).

If it's behind a router, you'll need to do the above process in the router, while leaving the port-forwarding to your DVR the same.

The fans are simply to help cool the electronics... and they don't pull much amperage.  

If you want to see if your switch can power the camera, look in the PDF for the specific camera.  It should give you a Watt-rating, or power consumption wattage for PoE.  Fortunately, a simple camera without IR LEDs or heater doesn't pull very much... typically 5-8 Watts, so you might be OK with one camera per port on that Cisco switch.   Cameras that include integrated IR LEDs will naturally pull more current... and some of the heater-equipped models pull so much current that they can't be run on PoE.

I have a 24-port PoE switch that was loud as sh*t... like standing next to a vacuum cleaner.  Remember that those things are made to be in data centers and other locations where noise isn't a big concern.  It was an Ebay acquisition (and hence quite cheap), and out-of-warranty (though fully functional).  I promptly cracked it open and redid the fans (I basically took out the tiny, loud 40mm fans and put in PCI slot-coolers... much more airflow, and much quieter).